Spoilers With Speculation

[gonzosgirrl]

40 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Misha is just being his typical sweetheart self.

If boosting them by dissing Dean/Sam is being a sweetheart, then sure. It was a poor choice of words and sets a tone I don't like. 

[gonzosgirrl]

The only bright side I can hope for is they take Mary along with them and let SPN get back to Dean and Sam being badass hunters again. Not gonna hold my breath though. Nobody will convince me that Dabb gives one single fuck about the Winchesters or the legacy that Supernatural deserves.  He knows the end is near regardless of how good or bad the show is and he's hedging his bet and concentrating on his pet characters. And if any of their names are Winchester, they sure aren't Dean. 

[ILoveReading]

43 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If boosting them by dissing Dean/Sam is being a sweetheart, then sure. It was a poor choice of words and sets a tone I don't like. 

Berens responded to the tweet with clapping emojis.   I'm sure they'll set this up as a sort of "changing of the guard" with Sam and especially Dean being called "old."

[Wayward Son]

I hope the show surprises everyone and turns out to be a major success! Jody and Donna are both wonderful characters and deserve their chance to shine! 

[catrox14]

You guys know I think Misha is aces but man, that tweet really does bug me. It's like it's a competition between Wayward Sisters and SPN, and IMO, that's not a great way to start off.  

Like maybe some acknowledgement that without SPN, there would be no possible spinoff for Jody and Donna.

I hope someone will say, 'We are so excited to carry on with the wonderful legacy and we hope we can to it justice. We will be a little bit separate from the mothership but we are happy to be part of it and are so grateful for the opportunity'. 

That's what I have been expecting to read.

[gonzosgirrl]

14 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I hope the show surprises everyone and turns out to be a major success! Jody and Donna are both wonderful characters and deserve their chance to shine! 

I actually like both these characters very much. I'd like to think they won't be shoved into the background like most adults on the CW network, and who knows, maybe that's changing slowly. But I am not interested in a bunch of men writing teenage girls (as someone else already said). And I am REALLY not interested in seeing this show pimped at the expense of SPN/Dean and Sam. If it's supposed to be all about empowered women, then write them that way and praise them that way, without bringing male characters in for comparison. That's not empowerment IMO.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I actually like both these characters very much. I'd like to think they won't be shoved into the background like most adults on the CW network, and who knows, maybe that's changing slowly. But I am not interested in a bunch of men writing teenage girls (as someone else already said). And I am REALLY not interested in seeing this show pimped at the expense of SPN/Dean and Sam. If it's supposed to be all about empowered women, then write them that way and praise them that way, without bringing male characters in for comparison. That's not empowerment IMO.

This show has not done well with writing teenage girls at all. I'm wondering if Dabb/Singer/Sgriccia/Berens are just going to be involved in the backdoor pilot and if it's successful that Berens becomes the EP for Wayward Sisters. Maybe Meredith Glynn will join them as a writer if it goes to series? 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

This show has not done well with writing teenage girls at all. I'm wondering if Dabb/Singer/Sgriccia/Berens are just going to be involved in the backdoor pilot and if it's successful that Berens becomes the EP for Wayward Sisters. Maybe Meredith Glynn will join them as a writer if it goes to series? 

LOL, probably, since she's the only one of the new writers who even came close to writing something decent for Dean.

[Wayward Son]

I also think Berens will be chosen as the day to day show runner with Dabb remaining head of the mother show and a hands off executive producer. He'd probably limit his involvement to basic feedback on proposed plots, or handling crossovers between the two shows. 

[MysteryGuest]

Well, I guess this news isn't too surprising.  I wonder if their plan is to introduce the new show next season, but then have it premiere in 2018 after SPN ends at 300?  They could do 12 episodes, and see if it takes off.  I hate talking about the end of SPN though, even though I know it has to end at some point.

I'm probably not the right audience for the new show anyway.  As much as I love Jody and Donna, the other girls I can only take in small doses.  Something about all of these kick ass teenagers just rubs me the wrong way.  What drew me to SPN was the relationship between Sam and Dean, their history, and of course, Jensen and Jared.  Jensen and Jared being the main attraction.  They hit pay dirt with those two, and that's not something easily duplicated.  

Of course, they'll mess with canon again to get this thing off the ground, but what else is new.  Last I knew, Alex had zero interest in being a hunter, and Jody was hellbent on Claire going to school.  I wonder if they'll recruit Krissy, too?  It would be nice to have a show with a mainly female cast, so that's something.  

Edited June 20, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

LOL, probably, since she's the only one of the new writers who even came close to writing something decent for Dean.

Oh that's true. I was just thinking of it as a female writer going to write well...females. LOL

Oh wait, can we send Buck Lemming to them. Although, they couldn't kill off the whole female cast...could they?

[gonzosgirrl]

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh that's true. I was just thinking of it as a female writer going to write well...females. LOL

Oh wait, can we send Buck Lemming to them. Although, they couldn't kill off the whole female cast...could they?

In my dreams they would take Perez. Glynn was okay until she seemed to drink the Dean-is-comedic-relief-and-not-much-else koolaid, but at least she seems to like the character. It will be interesting to see just who does go along if it goes to series. The only one I would seriously miss is Phil Sgriccia.

[Jonesy]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If boosting them by dissing Dean/Sam is being a sweetheart, then sure. It was a poor choice of words and sets a tone I don't like. 

He's just joking and being gallant, I take ZERO offense toward the boys.  Zero.

Also not a huge fan of the spin off concept at all but don't see where some think this means the creators don't like the show and the boys because they are making a spinoff--something that the CW asked for and many shows that go on along time...attempt.   Common.  Making a spinoff doesn't mean they have or will ignore the mothership.  Nor do I see any real sign this has been happening.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Jakes

[Pete Martell]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

You guys know I think Misha is aces but man, that tweet really does bug me. It's like it's a competition between Wayward Sisters and SPN, and IMO, that's not a great way to start off.  

Like maybe some acknowledgement that without SPN, there would be no possible spinoff for Jody and Donna.

I hope someone will say, 'We are so excited to carry on with the wonderful legacy and we hope we can to it justice. We will be a little bit separate from the mothership but we are happy to be part of it and are so grateful for the opportunity'. 

That's what I have been expecting to read.

It's actually quite dumb (not your post, I mean setting up a war between them) because one of the reasons, beyond how flat it was, that I doubt the Bloodlines spinoff went anywhere is because a lot of fans hated it, didn't even watch the episode, and felt it was taking away the legacy that Jared and Jensen built. Now we have a new show that was at least built from characters who are important to Sam and Dean, something that could carry the Supernatural name along and maybe if it does well and lasts a few years, might even get some appearances from the old cast once Supernatural wraps up, and we're already in pissing contest territory again.

I haven't watched the show much in the last few years but I always liked Jody and I was pleased they were going to consider giving her (and the wonderful Kim Rhodes) her own show. But if this is how it's being started - and I don't think Misha intended it that way, honestly, but it does have that tone - then I may as well just not even bother because it's already setting the path of failure.

[Wayward Son]

5 hours ago, Jakes said:

He's just joking and being gallant, I take ZERO offense toward the boys.  Zero.

Also not a huge fan of the spin off concept at all but don't see where some think this means the creators don't like the show and the boys because they are making a spinoff--something that the CW asked for and many shows that go on along time...attempt.   Common.  Making a spinoff doesn't mean they have or will ignore the mothership.  Nor do I see any real sign this has been happening.

I agree that the whole thing is a joke on Misha's part. I don't think there is any competition on the part of the actors, writers, producers etc. IMO the only place where they're in competition is fandom where fans have decided to make it a competition. 

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think Misha meant anything bad by it but I do believe it is gonna be the simplistic trap the writers will fall into. Female characters being met with more scrutiny often leads to the writers taking the wrong conclusions from the criticism. And instead of trying maybe a more laidback approach as that would with a male character, they think they need to work doubly hard and oversell the female character, including making the men around her inept. The result? More scorn and derision for the female character. It`s not solely the love interest angle. 

Jody works right now because as a recurring in SPN she is written badass but not totally in your face "look how kewl she is". That is most certainly gonna change in her own show because that`s how the writers roll. 

And, like I said, I see the teenagers being way more the focus. Prepare for angst-filled yet suddenly mega-badass Claire. Or, conversely a new teen character.  

[CluelessDrifter]

9 hours ago, Jakes said:

Making a spinoff doesn't mean they have or will ignore the mothership.  Nor do I see any real sign this has been happening.

True, but I think it's more that there's only so much attention a person, and in this case, multiple people, have to give, so if SPN is winding down, it stands to reason that TPTB for SPN will be shifting their focus to something that has the potential to last several more years, something new.  I also think that there has been a lack of regard for the Winchesters starting at the end of Season 11, but especially throughout season 12.  It's not just less screen time for J2.  It's the quality of the time they're on screen.  It's more attention being placed on other characters' POV instead of Dean and Sam's.  It's a recycling of the show's previous 'greatest hits,' meaning iconic moments, characters/monsters, and props (The Colt) with a slight twist for Dabb and the new writers to put their own mark on them.  It's a serious problem with resolving story lines with any kind of satisfaction for both seasons 11 and 12.  These things, to me, depict either a distinct lack of creativity in a universe where creating new monsters and story lines should be relatively easy and a lack of attention to detail, or attention being placed elsewhere and lack of attention to detail for SPN.  

Edited June 21, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I agree that the whole thing is a joke on Misha's part. I don't think there is any competition on the part of the actors, writers, producers etc. IMO the only place where they're in competition is fandom where fans have decided to make it a competition. 

 

 I think Misha was joking, and his joke is still drawing an unnecessary comparison even if he's being self deprecating. "Can’t wait to see you kickass women showing us all how “badass hunter” is really done!".  Like I said before I'm sure Misha's intentions were to just promote the spinoff.  But, MO, he chose a not great way to word it. Misha could have just left it at "Can't wait to see you kick ass women, kicking ass!"  That would have been a great tweet and doesn't prop them at the expense of anyone else, including himself. I wouldn't have batted an eye.

 

Heresy warning ahead. Jody is not my favorite female character. Donna has been my favorite female character since her introduction. MO she is the most realistic female character on the show thus far. YMMV.

The main reason I adore Donna, is she is imperfect and insecure a little about herself  and was reeling from her divorce from Doug 1.0. But she was NOT insecure about her job and she was capable and smart but not Mary Sue smart.  Donna was scared when she saw her first monster. Her reactions to the monster world were hilarious and IMO the most believable because she thought she was crazy. Her ability to use a machete didn't bother me, she is a law enforcement officer after all.

MO she wasn't completely able to get over Doug 1.0 that quickly and she also didn't feel a need to get into any public fighting with him at the convention even when he was being a dick, which didn't make her a doormat. I liked it when she called Jody out for what she felt was Jody crossing a line. I like that she isn't a surrogate mother to the boys** . She didn't behave as a sister or a love interest or flirt with the boys, (much to the chagrin of my lowkey  Dean/Donna shipping. I mean I just can see them hanging out for a weekend of coffee, donuts, mutual pun appreciation,  some netflix and chillin' but I know that won't ever be a thing). Donna became their friend and colleague. 

Anyway, I love Donna and all her imperfections and I don't want to see them turn her into a cliche "badass" female character who loses all her imperfections for the sake of the backdoor pilot.

**Jody is really too young IMO to be a surrogate mother to the boys. She's what like 45-50? That's only 10 years older than Sam! (I also lowkey ship Sam and Jody) 

[PAForrest]

12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

You guys know I think Misha is aces but man, that tweet really does bug me. It's like it's a competition between Wayward Sisters and SPN, and IMO, that's not a great way to start off.  

Like maybe some acknowledgement that without SPN, there would be no possible spinoff for Jody and Donna.

And there would also be no Castiel without Dean and Sam and the original series, thank you very much.

I'm sure Misha probably didn't mean anything bad by it, but it does come off a little like biting the hand that's fed him for years. Poor choice in words more than anything else.

As for the second attempt at a backdoor pilot - with no guarantee of series, because the CW doesn't have to do anything with it if they choose not to - I don't care one way or the other. Yeah, I like Kim and Brianna well enough, and if it goes forward I wish them luck, of course. But it means nothing to me personally because I won't be tuning in - I doubt I'd be the target audience anyway. My guess is that Jody and Donna will rapidly become mostly figurehead characters anyway, while the concentration would be on the younger/teen female "hunters".

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

And there would also be no Castiel without Dean and Sam and the original series, thank you very much.

I'm sure Misha probably didn't mean anything bad by it, but it does come off a little like biting the hand that's fed him for years. Poor choice in words more than anything else

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that Misha was biting the hand that feeds him. At this point, Misha and Castiel have been with the show longer than he has not. I mean he's been integral to the past 8 seasons and I think the show would be poorer without Castiel and Misha. Like I said in a subsequent post,  I can see the argument that Misha was trying to be self-deprecating but he chose IMO the wrong way to do it.

So I'm not flogging Misha over this. It just rubbed me the wrong way. IMO it was a poor way to prop the backdoor pilot.  But maybe he's getting cues from Chico on how to promote it

[Wayward Son]

54 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

 I think Misha was joking, and his joke is still drawing an unnecessary comparison even if he's being self deprecating. "Can’t wait to see you kickass women showing us all how “badass hunter” is really done!".  Like I said before I'm sure Misha's intentions were to just promote the spinoff.  But, MO, he chose a not great way to word it. Misha could have just left it at "Can't wait to see you kick ass women, kicking ass!"  That would have been a great tweet and doesn't prop them at the expense of anyone else, including himself. I wouldn't have batted an eye.

 

Heresy warning ahead. Jody is not my favorite female character. Donna has been my favorite female character since her introduction. MO she is the most realistic female character on the show thus far. YMMV.

The main reason I adore Donna, is she is imperfect and insecure a little about herself  and was reeling from her divorce from Doug 1.0. But she was NOT insecure about her job and she was capable and smart but not Mary Sue smart.  Donna was scared when she saw her first monster. Her reactions to the monster world were hilarious and IMO the most believable because she thought she was crazy. Her ability to use a machete didn't bother me, she is a law enforcement officer after all.

MO she wasn't completely able to get over Doug 1.0 that quickly and she also didn't feel a need to get into any public fighting with him at the convention even when he was being a dick, which didn't make her a doormat. I liked it when she called Jody out for what she felt was Jody crossing a line. I like that she isn't a surrogate mother to the boys** . She didn't behave as a sister or a love interest or flirt with the boys, (much to the chagrin of my lowkey  Dean/Donna shipping. I mean I just can see them hanging out for a weekend of coffee, donuts, mutual pun appreciation,  some netflix and chillin' but I know that won't ever be a thing). Donna became their friend and colleague. 

Anyway, I love Donna and all her imperfections and I don't want to see them turn her into a cliche "badass" female character who loses all her imperfections for the sake of the backdoor pilot.

**Jody is really too young IMO to be a surrogate mother to the boys. She's what like 45-50? That's only 10 years older than Sam! (I also lowkey ship Sam and Jody) 

IMO no matter what the premise was, or what the actors / producers tweeted there was always going to be elements of fandom who were going to turn a spin off into some sort of competition. Already, I've seen the expected "don't they realise the only reason SN was successful was J2, and it is such an insult to J2 to imply a spin off without them can be successful too". 

I don't really want to get into the argument of the validity of such a statement. I'm just pointing out that IMO the only place where this is a competition is fandom, and that competitiveness is largely coming from overprotective J2 fans. Again just MO 

[Aeryn13]

I wonder how they`re gonna determine if the show goes beyond the backdoor Pilot. Ratings? Those can fluctuate wildly, depending on lots of factors so if the episode itself is low-rated, it wouldn`t mean much. Same in reverse actually. Reception among fandom/reviewers/press? Could be. Or the network wants a show no matter what and pushes for it regardless. The Originals Pilot on TVD wasn`t well-received (and it was crap to boot) but the studio/network had enough confidence in the project to greenlight it for a series run. Maybe the same happens here.    

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Hm...regarding Misha's tweet: 

Quote

Can’t wait to see you kickass women showing us all how “badass hunter” is really done!

I think it's dig at Mary (since she was supposed to be a "badass hunter", remember?) rather than Sam and Dean.  

[Pondlass1]

The CW writers don't appear to know how to write teen girls - not as far as I'm concerned anyway.  If they're going to rely on the moody, eye rolling teen that  constantly goes against house rules and runs off to fight the horrid monster all by herself - - then the series will fail immediately.

It's completely over Dabb & Co's head that Supernatural (and other such shows) succeed because of the characters and the dynamic between those characters.  

If it's all - kids today with their texting and murder - it won't last.  And hopefully the actress that portrays Claire takes some acting lessons over the summer.  I've seen her in a film, an HBO show and Supernatural and she played the exact same role each time.

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

IMO no matter what the premise was, or what the actors / producers tweeted there was always going to be elements of fandom who were going to turn a spin off into some sort of competition. Already, I've seen the expected "don't they realise the only reason SN was successful was J2, and it is such an insult to J2 to imply a spin off without them can be successful too". 

I don't really want to get into the argument of the validity of such a statement. I'm just pointing out that IMO the only place where this is a competition is fandom, and that competitiveness is largely coming from overprotective J2 fans. Again just MO 

I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are trying to say in regard to my specific comments on Misha's wording on his tweet wrt to overall fandom. I'm speaking from my own opinion formed outside of what anyone else has to say about it. I think my comments here make it fairly clear I don't like the brodependency. I've said before that I think the show is better with Cas than without it, TFW and all that. I think that's one reason I was taken aback by Misha's tweet.  I'm not saying anyone has to fall at the feet of J2 so I'm not "protecting" them. If Jensen or Jared tweeted something akin to Misha's tweet or they even liked his tweet, as a way to show support for the spinoff, I would equally side eye and eyeroll as  case of propping the spinoff at the expense of the Winchester/TFW legacy. It would bug me no matter who is doing the deprecating, self or otherwise.

[catrox14]

30 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Hm...regarding Misha's tweet: 

I think it's dig at Mary (since she was supposed to be a "badass hunter", remember?) rather than Sam and Dean.  

Eh, I doubt that. I don't think Misha is going to take a dig at Mary, who despite some of the commentary in this specific forum, is seen as a badass hunter if kind of a mess, in other places and on SM, and not at the same time he's promoting a spinoff that will feature female hunters. One of those hunters might very well end up being Mary herself if they get her out of the AU.   I think it's more that Misha was propping the spinoff on the backs of himself and Sam and Dean.

You know, I've been wondering if the Wayward Sisters will end up taking place in the AU.

Edited June 21, 2017 by catrox14

[Pondlass1]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You know, I've been wondering if the Wayward Sisters will end up taking place in the AU.

This ^ would tempt me enough to watch.  But I very much doubt that they'd go this way.  But wouldn't it be interesting??... they could bring back characters from Supernatural, but they're 'off' and different.  I'd be intrigued.

 

Also I'm thinking ... one of the 'girls' will probably be a 'good monster' that can heal and transport and get ingredients for spells, etc. (like Castiel).

Edited June 21, 2017 by Pondlass1

[ILoveReading]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You know, I've been wondering if the Wayward Sisters will end up taking place in the AU.

Catrox, I agree with what you said about Donna in an earlier post.   For all the reasons you stated, its why she's my favorite too.

I figure the backdoor pilot will be pretty straight forward.  Kim said she's already seen a s13 script and I'm guessing its the scrip for Wayward Sisters.   (Which is why I think Dabb is far more interested in the spinoff than the mothership because it seems all the prep work pre season was about the spin off.

I figure there will be 2-3 more wards sent Jody's way.  We'll meet them in the first few episodes of the season.  Sam will find a case, they'll go work it, probably get saved by the teenage protagonist.  We will need to see how "kick ass" she it,  but it won't before they save the girls parents.  They send her to Jody.  Then shortly after the the mid-season premier we'll see the pilot.

Edited June 21, 2017 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that Misha was biting the hand that feeds him. At this point, Misha and Castiel have been with the show longer than he has not. I mean he's been integral to the past 8 seasons and I think the show would be poorer without Castiel and Misha. Like I said in a subsequent post,  I can see the argument that Misha was trying to be self-deprecating but he chose IMO the wrong way to do it.

So I'm not flogging Misha over this. It just rubbed me the wrong way. IMO it was a poor way to prop the backdoor pilot.  But maybe he's getting cues from Chico on how to promote it

I'm not sure how it's 'self-deprecating' - Castiel is not a hunter. Sam and Dean are the hunters. By extension it's them who are going to be shown 'how it's really done'. Do I think Misha meant any harm or insult by his tweet? No, I do not. Does it read as an insult? Yes, it does.

And yes, I'd like to see a little gratitude to the boys who made it possible for them to have this chance, and that is Jensen and Jared, IMO. YMMV.

And no, I don't see it as a competition, and certainly don't think 'any' show without Jensen/Jared Dean/Sam is doomed to fail. In fact, this is probably their best shot at it, with established and liked, if not loved characters, unlike the failed Bloodlines, which gave SPN fans no one to care about. I wish them success, wholeheartedly, even if it's not something I want to watch. Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the crew behind the scenes to write strong female characters without resorting to dumbing down everyone else around them, as they do more often than not.

[Pondlass1]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I figure there will be 2-3 more wards sent Jody's way.  We'll meet them in the first few episodes of the season.

This ^ is depressing, but probably what's going to happen.  No Sam and Dean action - just angsty teens who are somehow brilliant hunters and it will really get up my nose if the angsty teens save Sam & Dean!!! 

[Wayward Son]

50 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are trying to say in regard to my specific comments on Misha's wording on his tweet wrt to overall fandom. I'm speaking from my own opinion formed outside of what anyone else has to say about it. I think my comments here make it fairly clear I don't like the brodependency. I've said before that I think the show is better with Cas than without it, TFW and all that. I think that's one reason I was taken aback by Misha's tweet.  I'm not saying anyone has to fall at the feet of J2 so I'm not "protecting" them. If Jensen or Jared tweeted something akin to Misha's tweet or they even liked his tweet, as a way to show support for the spinoff, I would equally side eye and eyeroll as  case of propping the spinoff at the expense of the Winchester/TFW legacy. It would bug me no matter who is doing the deprecating, self or otherwise.

Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that while I can understand your personal reservations about Misha's tweets. In my opinion the content of his tweet matters little overall, as anything he, or anyone else says, will be taken in the worst possible way by many in fandom. Due to the fact there are many who see the very idea of a spin off as some sort of slight against J2. 

Basically what I'm saying is that IMO while you may not have had reservations about the spin off without Misha's tweets others would, and the internet/fandom would still be discussing whether the spin off is a threat to the mother show.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Wayward Son

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

This ^ is depressing, but probably what's going to happen.  No Sam and Dean action - just angsty teens who are somehow brilliant hunters and it will really get up my nose if the angsty teens save Sam & Dean!!! 

It reminds me of what Dean told Jo back in s2, No Exit. " Woman can do the job just fine.  Amateurs can't."  What I liked about No Exit is Jo suddenly wasn't this expert hunter.  She made a lot of rookie mistakes and would have been dead without Sam and Dean's experience.

I'm guessing that Jo's experience is probably what most rookie hunters experience.  Like, Dean said, get good fast or get dead faster.   That's not to say that Jo doesn't have potential or wouldn't be a good hunter, but she learned a valuable lesson.  She didn't know everything and she needed backup.  we were told that Sam and Dean trained their whole lives, their childhoods were sacrificed to learning.  To have someone be a good hunter by downloading an app or becoming a ninja overnight I find it make a mockery out of everything Sam and Dean sacrificed to get where they are.

In Freaks and Geeks we saw a concept similar to the WayWard Sisters concept in which Victor took in Kids who lost their parents (I know VIctor was the bad guy, so I'm making a direct comparison, just a general one).  But we also found out Victor set up easy hunts.  Krissy and Co. weren't an automatic supreme hunting force who were going to show Sam and Dean how it was done. 

The girls should have a lot to learn and not be instant experts.  But I don't think Dabb and company are going to be able to resist that cliche.  I feel like its going to be at the expense of Sam and (especially) Dean. 

[Bessie]

28 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

 

Also I'm thinking ... one of the 'girls' will probably be a 'good monster' that can heal and transport and get ingredients for spells, etc. (like Castiel).

I think you're right. I'd like them to take Cas and along with him, Sproutifer, Lucifer and all the heaven and hell dynamics that have continued way too long for my liking. Castiel could still pop in to the mother show for a couple of episodes, but I'd be thrilled to see his storylines (which have been atrocious recently and had a negative impact on the overall quality of the show, IMO) contained in the spinoff. 

[Pondlass1]

I'll eat my hat if  Supernatural doesn't make it to episode 300.  However, I was hoping this epic series would go out with the mind blowing BANG worthy of its awesome cast and crew.  

However, they have this sparkly new toy to play with now.  :(

[Aeryn13]

I think there will be a difference between the backdoor Pilot and the actual show (should it happen). The backdoor Pilot will most certainly have kickass teens at the expense of the Winchesters (Dean foremost because he is their go-to-character for propping of others). And it will be in your face obnoxious.

The actual show will downgrade them and have the characters suddenly stumble and fail. Why? Because you need to have suspense and a sense of danger for the protagonists.  

I don`t know which Season of Charmed it was that introduced the Billie character. Her first episode? She backflipped into the room as some really insanely over-the-top superwitch. Like the worst Mary Sue imaginable. Subsequent episodes gave her a serious downgrade and tried to give her some personality/humanity. Unfortunately, the introductary episode was so bad, a lot of the damage was done.

Undecided if Mary would join the spin-off. It would certainly be suited for her. And they hammered home the fake coolness over how much of a badass she is in exactly the obnoxiously stupid manner I believe they will bring to the Pilot.

Now a good Pilot will have the characters be fallible and not fake kewl from the start but I`ve seen no evidence the SPN writers could pull this off. 

[Pondlass1]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

that Misha was biting the hand that feeds him

The new pilot could mean continued employment for Misha.  I never viewed him as particularly ambitious, but a steady salary and remaining in the public eye as the character of Castiel will help fund his various charities.  

There's no reason Castiel cannot transfer from Supernatural to Wayward Sisters and work a few episodes a season as he does now.  It's a win for for Misha if the series takes off.

Come to think of it, they probably will rely on a number of crossover characters (that haven't been killed off).  Plus there's a well-oiled crew who'll be happy to transfer over to the new show no doubt.

[Jonesy]

Misha was simply wishing his friend Kim best wishes for her big chance in a joking way and some in our fandom per usual read implications where there are none.  He was dissing no one--just being light hearted and bit goofy with it. 

[Jonesy]

5 hours ago, CluelessDrifter said:

True, but I think it's more that there's only so much attention a person, and in this case, multiple people, have to give, so if SPN is winding down, it stands to reason that TPTB for SPN will be shifting their focus to something that has the potential to last several more years, something new.  I also think that there has been a lack of regard for the Winchesters starting at the end of Season 11, but especially throughout season 12.  It's not just less screen time for J2.  It's the quality of the time they're on screen.  It's more attention being placed on other characters' POV instead of Dean and Sam's.  It's a recycling of the show's previous 'greatest hits,' meaning iconic moments, characters/monsters, and props (The Colt) with a slight twist for Dabb and the new writers to put their own mark on them.  It's a serious problem with resolving story lines with any kind of satisfaction for both seasons 11 and 12.  These things, to me, depict either a distinct lack of creativity in a universe where creating new monsters and story lines should be relatively easy and a lack of attention to detail, or attention being placed elsewhere and lack of attention to detail for SPN.  

Meh, I think they'll divvy up responsibilities if they both are on air in season 14 SPN time.  With the quality of the show and how they are doing the boys in last few seasons...it's good to very good for the most part(give or take a boost down or up for some individual episodes) but not up to the classic early years--but that's been the case for a half dozen years or so.

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that while I can understand your personal reservations about Misha's tweets. In my opinion the content of his tweet matters little overall, as anything he, or anyone else says, will be taken in the worst possible way by many in fandom. Due to the fact there are many who see the very idea of a spin off as some sort of slight against J2. 

Basically what I'm saying is that IMO while you may not have had reservations about the spin off without Misha's tweets others would, and the internet/fandom would still be discussing whether the spin off is a threat to the mother show.

 

I guess this is where we are having a disconnect.

I'm not suggesting that the existence of a spinoff is a threat to the mothership's existence or a slight to J2. That's not what I mean by "competitive/comparative" wrt to Misha's tweet.  There is discussion/concern about where the writing and directing resources will go WRT to the spinoff vs the mothership but that has nothing to do with my objection and issue with Misha's tweet. The show has expanded it's universe but the basic story still revolves around Sam and Dean. And IMO that's good. It's helped by having had strong regular and recurring supporting characters like Castiel, Crowley (RIP), Bobby(RIP), John (RIPish), Charlie (RIP), Jody, Donna.  They all exist to tell the story of the Winchesters.

IMO there are viewers that just don't care about a spinoff one way or the other. They'll either tune in or they won't. There are folks who are worried that the spinoff will be as terrible as Bloodlines. I liked the character of Ennis myself, but the whole premise of unknown monster families controlling Chicago and no hunter ever knew about it made no sense,  and it messed up the shapeshifter lore with no explanation.  It also fell during the final act of s9 when viewers were far more worried about Sam, Dean and the MoC, Metatron vs Gadreel & Castiel so it's timing was terrible which added to the negative reception

I suspect Wayward Sisters will not be placed that close to the final act of the season OR if it is, it will be well integrated into whatever arc is happening with the boys and Castiel, I would hope anyway. I don't have the sense that Wayward Sisters will make those same kinds of mistakes and it has the built in DNA of Jody who's been around since s5 so it already has a better jumping off point.

That said, I don't want it to be a direct lift from SPN either. MO, the best spinoffs will have the DNA in storytelling and markers of the mother ship, but also enough of it's own structure to not erase the legacy of the mother ship. I do think certain things should be sacred for the mothership which doesn't make me J2 stan. I'm much more a Dean/TFW.

Anyway, it did kind of bug me that when Alex said the Kim Manners "Kick it in the ass" line in 12.22. She is not a beloved, well established character like Ellen, who said it before sacrificing herself  and dying with Jo to help the boys try to kill Lucifer.   I'm not interested in Claire or someone else driving the not!Impala and listening to classic rock. That wouldn't feel like an homage as much as re-purposing and re-packaging. I don't want anyone to say "Bitch, Jerk" to each other. I don't want another angel to arrive be awkward and weird like Castiel.  I don't want another demon to show up and say "Hello, girls". 

And the biggest one for me,  which is what ruffled my feathers with regard to Misha's tweet is that Dean and Sam have long been considered the best hunters on the planet. They have saved thousands, if not millions of people. They have entire books published about them written by God himself.  And they are now folk legends as we learned in the Asa Fox episode.  So to me, Misha's tweet, undermines that aspect of the mother ship albeit unintentional on his part.

Anyway, I'm not worried in the least that both shows airing at the same time would be a threat to SPN because it's not like the ratings spike when Jody, Donna or Claire have been featured or promoted, not in any meaningful way. In general, the ratings are mostly level with spikes at the season premieres, midseason finales/premieres, the occasional "event" episode or particular guest actors, and the season finales.  Everything in between seems to be mostly steady.  I do expect Wayward Sisters will get a bump out of curiosity. How much of a bump is hard to say.

[Aeryn13]

I would expect the episode to be placed earlier in the Season rather than later. That gives them time to sample the reception and chatter about it. The network will make its decision which new shows will go to Series around spring next year. If they want to be in that pool, meaning, going to series in the 2018 fall Season (or mid-Season later), they need to get in gear well before that. So, I would not be surprised to see said backdoor Pilot before the mid-Season break. Maybe episode 4 or 5-ish, even.  

[gonzosgirrl]

51 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Misha was simply wishing his friend Kim best wishes for her big chance in a joking way and some in our fandom per usual read implications where there are none.  He was dissing no one--just being light hearted and bit goofy with it. 

Well, some in our fandom immediately got a poor impression from the wording, and I don't think anyone said or implied that he meant harm or disrespect with it, only that it could be and obviously was, interpreted that way. The words are there - nothing was made up of whole cloth.

Edited June 21, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Jonesy]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Well, some in our fandom immediately got a poor impression from the wording, and I don't think anyone said or implied that he meant harm or disrespect with it, only that it could be and obviously was, interpreted that way. The words are there - nothing was made up of whole cloth.

Yes True but still much fan silliness in some quarters about this imo--which is not unusual at times in this fandom. 

[CluelessDrifter]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

Meh, I think they'll divvy up responsibilities if they both are on air in season 14 SPN time.  

Were it anyone else we were discussing, I would probably agree, but considering that I think they aren't giving SPN the attention it needs currently, I have my doubts that they would able to do both it and a spin-off justice.  I guess we'll just have to see, but I don't think that we're going to agree in the long run, and it's primarily because we disagree on this:

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

With the quality of the show and how they are doing the boys in last few seasons...it's good to very good for the most part(give or take a boost down or up for some individual episodes) but not up to the classic early years--but that's been the case for a half dozen years or so.

if what you mean is that the show and the writing for the Winchesters has been good to very good the last couple of seasons.  I just don't think that at all.  I actually tend to think the opposite, that we're given the odd episode that is good and everything in between is severely lacking from a writing standpoint, but that's probably a discussion for a different thread.

[catrox14]

I think my problem is I suffer from APSOSD (Arrow Post Spin off Stress Disorder) They really mucked up a couple of season of Arrow IMO, to set up two spinoffs. They shunted the lead to the side, made him a dumbass about ALL the things to prop the new characters etc etc. So I'm a little worried that SPN may suffer the same fate which I could deal with if this wasn't looking like the 13 and 14th would be the final seasons. 

Who knows. I just want the boys to go out on a high note. I was having a little fantasy that the show could bring back Ben Edlund as a showrunner and head writer, but I know , I know he's busy. :(.

[companionenvy]

The Winchesters/Jared and Jensen are under no threat from Wayward Daughters, IMO, which is precisely why Misha can make the kind of tweet he made.

It would be like tweeting a picture of a Little League World Series team and saying "Let's show the world what REAL world series champions look like!" It isn't offensive to the Chicago Cubs or the KC Royals or any other recent major league WS winners, because the two can't be meaningfully compared. It is a sweet tribute to the kids and doesn't take anything away from the ML players.

Obviously, Kim Rhodes isn't a child, but in the world of TV, we're talking about a warhorse that has been on for 12 years and a backdoor pilot for a possible spinoff that's at least as likely as not to never make it off the ground And to put it in in-universe terms, we're talking about two men who have spent their lives hunting and averting apocalypses vs. a small-town sheriff who has been moonlighting and some teenage neophytes. These two things are not equal, so Misha isn't going to be worried about his words being taken as a slight on Sam and Dean, or Jensen and Jared. 

That's not to say the show-runners can't engage in asinine and invidious comparisons if the show actually becomes a reality, but that's not Misha's fault. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

The Winchesters/Jared and Jensen are under no threat from Wayward Daughters, IMO, which is precisely why Misha can make the kind of tweet he made.

It would be like tweeting a picture of a Little League World Series team and saying "Let's show the world what REAL world series champions look like!" It isn't offensive to the Chicago Cubs or the KC Royals or any other recent major league WS winners, because the two can't be meaningfully compared. It is a sweet tribute to the kids and doesn't take anything away from the ML players.

Going with your baseball analogy, I think this is more like AAA (highest level in the minor leagues) players  in Spring Training games in March when the season starts in April and are fighting for final spots in The Show (the Major Leagues for any non baseball folks) and a $450-500K minimum league salary.

It costs about $2M to produce one episode of SPN. This means SPN is willing to cede one of the 23 episodes to a veteran player (Kim),  3 yr occasional starter (Donna) and a couple of rookies  in the Kathryns. Throw in some random journeyman players and they are all trying to make the bigs (series pick up). From the angle of writing, acting and directing, these AAA players work their asses off to compete and many are pretty damn close and even do compete at the ML level, even if they can't make the big club permanently. But even that isn't really quite apt either because a pilot episode is more like a play in game. Win or go home. No series pick up with possible additional punishment by getting a DFA back down to Single A or being waived and no one wants to sign you again because the risk is too great. 

So after that tortured analogy, I would be pretty surprised that Misha would tweet something that would be as patronizing to Kim as though they are cosplaying for a day.  I can't see that being Misha's angle at all.

I think it's just that he was being effusive about Kim getting the gig for the backdoor pilot and just used some ill-advised words to prop it up that didn't land well with some fans.

Now within the show the characters themselves might seem LL but I'd say it's more like Single A Rookie Ball compared to the ML for the boys. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by catrox14

[Diane]

I'm going to say agree to disagree I don't think that Misha used ill-advised words. I think he was excited for Kim and was just enthusiastic like Misha is. I can't imagine that Jensen or Jared would take it any other way either. JMO.

[MysteryGuest]

9 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'll eat my hat if  Supernatural doesn't make it to episode 300.  However, I was hoping this epic series would go out with the mind blowing BANG worthy of its awesome cast and crew.  

However, they have this sparkly new toy to play with now.  :(

I guess I'll cop to being one of the over-protective J2 fans.  Not that I'm worried specifically about Jensen and Jared, but I'm not happy for my own selfish reasons.  Had last season been a great year for the characters I like, I doubt I'd feel this way.  But in light of my disappointment with season 12, and now knowing that this little pilot has been on the back burner, it does at least seem possible to me that their focus was on the shiny new toy (as Pondlass1 said), and not on the show that I'm interested in watching.

It will also annoy me if Wayward Daughters/Sisters/Whichever gets all of the great little monster-of-the-week episodes that I've been clamoring for SPN to get back to, and we're stuck with the Lucifer chronicles as we limp along to the finish line.  This show could practically write itself because of the endless possibilities of the supernatural theme, but they've been unwilling or unable to move away from the giant myth arcs.  If we only have a season and a half left, then make it memorable.  At least right now, I don't think the AU/Lucifer/Jack trio of storylines is going to give me what I'm hoping for.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Diane said:

I'm going to say agree to disagree I don't think that Misha used ill-advised words. I think he was excited for Kim and was just enthusiastic like Misha is. I can't imagine that Jensen or Jared would take it any other way either. JMO.

Just to be clear, I'm protective of the Winchesters legacy in the show, Dean and Sam, not J2. Their legacy as actors in a show that lasted 13 seasons in this day and age of TV is well secure. I am sure they are happy for Kim and don't care what Misha tweeted about it. I was bothered of my own accord not in defense of J2. I am curious what they think about the spinoff though.

[DittyDotDot]

Wow, screwed up my activity stream when I added S12 and missed the news! Thought it had been a bit too quiet around here the last few days. ::head/desk::

I have to say, I'm quite surprised they're really and truly thinking spinoff because I don't believe the project has legs and it seemed to me they had realized fandom wouldn't ever embrace anything without Sam and Dean in it. I mean, Bloodlines wasn't their first attempt at a spinoff, ya know?

I'm going to be heartbroken when they ruin Jodi, aren't I? 

On 6/19/2017 at 6:12 PM, MysteryGuest said:

The entire "Lucifer locked in his meat suit" storyline was stupid in my opinion.  

If they wanted Mark Pelligrino back they really didn't need it to be so overly contrived. They really should've put all that energy into the actual story and character, not the stupid plot device that didn't matter anyway. I mean, it's a show about demons and monster and MAGIC, the audience already is already on board to suspend belief, for Chuck's sake.

On 6/20/2017 at 0:53 PM, companionenvy said:

Wow. This is really surprising to me, despite the hints. I really like Jodi, but I can't imagine the show having enough of a built-in fanbase to succeed. Not sure if I'll be tuning in myself, although curiosity will probably lead me to at least check it out. 

I'm curious enough to check it out, but not sure if there is enough there to hold my attention. We'll see, I guess.

On 6/20/2017 at 1:15 PM, catrox14 said:

Oh gods. What if this means Buck Lemming become the showrunners for SPN? Oh gods why did I put that in the universe.

TAKE IT BACK!! TAKE IT BACK RIGHT NOW!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

On 6/20/2017 at 3:23 PM, Jakes said:

Again don't think this means Dabb hates or ignores the mothership--so will strongly agree to disagree on that point.  

How about I strongly agree with you? We only need a few more to strike a balance now. We've got work to do! ;)

On 6/20/2017 at 6:35 PM, Wayward Son said:

I also think Berens will be chosen as the day to day show runner with Dabb remaining head of the mother show and a hands off executive producer. He'd probably limit his involvement to basic feedback on proposed plots, or handling crossovers between the two shows. 

That was my thinking too. But, I don't think we have to worry about it now--or maybe ever--if the show gets picked up, it won't be for a while yet. I also don't think this means Scriggia or Singer will be leaving the mothership. I think they'll be working both shows simultaneously--if SPN goes another year, that is.

23 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I wonder how they`re gonna determine if the show goes beyond the backdoor Pilot. Ratings? Those can fluctuate wildly, depending on lots of factors so if the episode itself is low-rated, it wouldn`t mean much. Same in reverse actually. Reception among fandom/reviewers/press? Could be. Or the network wants a show no matter what and pushes for it regardless. The Originals Pilot on TVD wasn`t well-received (and it was crap to boot) but the studio/network had enough confidence in the project to greenlight it for a series run. Maybe the same happens here.    

I kinda think it's doomed before it begins, but am also curious what their criteria for going forward would be as well. Maybe it will all depend on whether they have an actual story to tell or not? If they're just doing to do it, well, then... .