Spoilers With Speculation

[Geordiegirl1967]

55 minutes ago, rue721 said:

The baby storyline bothers me on so many levels that I'm also just hoping out of sheer, senseless optimism that they aren't going to swerve away from the storyline of a baby born evil because of its parentage or because it's not "pure blood" whatever. Both those concepts are both so disgusting -- and IMO counter to the ethos of the show -- so I've just got to hold out my little flame of hope lol.

Cas and Kelly both believed her child was not evil. I'm hoping that's true and that the story next season will be protecting him and helping him learn to control his powers. Cas's judgement has been so catastrophically wrong so often that I wouldn't want his last decision and the thing he died for to be another mistake. Plus the other option of him being evil is a) predictable and b) problematic for all the reasons you've stated. 

[Idahoforspn]

9 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Cas and Kelly both believed her child was not evil. I'm hoping that's true and that the story next season will be protecting him and helping him learn to control his powers. Cas's judgement has been so catastrophically wrong so often that I wouldn't want his last decision and the thing he died for to be another mistake. Plus the other option of him being evil is a) predictable and b) problematic for all the reasons you've stated. 

The baby being good is problematic too IMO. Gives the brothers an all powerful Ally again. They had trouble writing for Cas because he was so powerful what are they going to do with the even more powerful Jack. I think they have written themselves into another big problem no matter which way they go. 

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

The baby being good is problematic too IMO. Gives the brothers an all powerful Ally again. They had trouble writing for Cas because he was so powerful what are they going to do with the even more powerful Jack. I think they have written themselves into another big problem no matter which way they go. 

Eh, they'll find a way to depower the spawn either way. 

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Eh, they'll find a way to depower the spawn either way. 

I'm sure they will. But depowering Cas ended up with some very unsatisfying storylines IMO. Not looking for a repeat. Don't get me wrong. I don't want Jack evil either. I just think they may not have thought this out to well.

[Aeryn13]

The evil smirk at the end didn`t give me any good vibes about the kid. 

[ILoveReading]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

I'm sure they will. But depowering Cas ended up with some very unsatisfying storylines IMO. Not looking for a repeat. Don't get me wrong. I don't want Jack evil either. I just think they may not have thought this out to well.

I'm thinking it will just be a repeat of the Amara storyline.   He won't be good or bad but he'll be susceptible to outside influences, and those that find him first will be able to mold him in their image.  We'll might get a mixture.  He helped save some people in small town X, but killed others in Small town Y.  

I suspect it will even end similiar to s11 with Sam getting to talk him down and using his powers for good. 

[Idahoforspn]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm thinking it will just be a repeat of the Amara storyline.   He won't be good or bad but he'll be susceptible to outside influences, and those that find him first will be able to mold him in their image.  We'll might get a mixture.  He helped save some people in small town X, but killed others in Small town Y.  

I suspect it will even end similiar to s11 with Sam getting to talk him down and using his powers for good. 

Please no!! 

[SueB]

STOP THE PRESSES!   I just re-looked at the wings. There's a DRAGON HEAD on the one we see!

im now 100min late.  I'll tech it up later

Catrox girl, you are right.  That's AU!Cas who died. 

[companionenvy]

12 minutes ago, SueB said:

STOP THE PRESSES!   I just re-looked at the wings. There's a DRAGON HEAD on the one we see!

im now 100min late.  I'll tech it up later

Catrox girl, you are right.  That's AU!Cas who died. 

AAH!! You made my night. I have to go radio silent for the next 25 hours (I observe the Jewish Sabbath), but I will live in hope for at least one more day!

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, SueB said:

STOP THE PRESSES!   I just re-looked at the wings. There's a DRAGON HEAD on the one we see!

im now 100min late.  I'll tech it up later

Catrox girl, you are right.  That's AU!Cas who died. 

I don't see it... but I never see the 3D stuff either. There was that title card with dragons in the edges though, so...????

 

[catrox14]

Hot damn! I see it. If you look over AU!Cas' shoulder there is an oval shape with spiky things sticking out. Like a dragon's head.

I have a teensy little worry like .0000000000000000001% fear is that something weird happened between Our Heaven and AU!Heaven like a rift formed that they did something to Cas in Heaven and sent him over to the AU!Heaven and brought him back altered and it all went wrong.

But I'm not going to hold to tightly to that because why would the show actually change our Cas into this other kind of angel, not really explain it to the audience, kill him and show him with these altered wings upon his death. That would be really poor storytelling. I mean worse than normal that is. LOL Hmmm. Could AU!Heaven and our!Heaven be stealing each others' angels? That would be messed up.

 

 

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't see it... but I never see the 3D stuff either. There was that title card with dragons in the edges though, so...????

 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Hot damn! I see it. If you look over AU!Cas' shoulder there is an oval shape with spiky things sticking out. Like a dragon's head.

I have a teensy little worry like .0000000000000000001% fear is that something weird happened between Our Heaven and AU!Heaven like a rift formed that they did something to Cas in Heaven and sent him over to the AU!Heaven and brought him back altered and it all went wrong.

But I'm not going to hold to tightly to that because why would the show actually change our Cas into this other kind of angel, not really explain it to the audience, kill him and show him with these altered wings upon his death. That would be really poor storytelling. I mean worse than normal that is. LOL Hmmm. Could AU!Heaven and our!Heaven be stealing each others' angels? That would be messed up.

 

 

I thought the spikey things were the shadows of his burnt/broken wings (from BOTD)

[catrox14]

Look where I have it circled in red. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[SueB]

47 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hot damn! I see it. If you look over AU!Cas' shoulder there is an oval shape with spiky things sticking out. Like a dragon's head.

I have a teensy little worry like .0000000000000000001% fear is that something weird happened between Our Heaven and AU!Heaven like a rift formed that they did something to Cas in Heaven and sent him over to the AU!Heaven and brought him back altered and it all went wrong.

But I'm not going to hold to tightly to that because why would the show actually change our Cas into this other kind of angel, not really explain it to the audience, kill him and show him with these altered wings upon his death. That would be really poor storytelling. I mean worse than normal that is. LOL Hmmm. Could AU!Heaven and our!Heaven be stealing each others' angels? That would be messed up.

 

 

That's not OUR Cas.  That's an AU!Angel wearing a Cas suit.  I think it's an AWESOME clue.  And the boys will pick up on it.

Look at the hints:
- "ruffled feathers"
- "wings"

Then we get that title card w/ dragons...

This is it.  OUR CAS LIVES.  I'm so far out on that limb I don't care.  

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

That's not OUR Cas.  That's an AU!Angel wearing a Cas suit.  I think it's an AWESOME clue.  And the boys will pick up on it.

Look at the hints:
- "ruffled feathers"
- "wings"

Then we get that title card w/ dragons...

This is it.  OUR CAS LIVES.  I'm so far out on that limb I don't care.  

I'm feeling a lot like Dean right now after he killed Hitler.

"I saved OUR CAS at PTV"

Hey, @Wayward Son ...did you hear the news? "I saved OUR CAS at PTV".
 

Hey, @SueB. Guess what? What?  "I saved OUR CAS on PTV".

Or something like that.

Thank you for finding noticing that. I FEEL SO VINDICATED! WOOO! LOL

[Wynne88]

I'm lost . . . what do dragons have to do with the AU?  

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

That's not OUR Cas.  That's an AU!Angel wearing a Cas suit.  I think it's an AWESOME clue.  And the boys will pick up on it.

Look at the hints:
- "ruffled feathers"
- "wings"

Then we get that title card w/ dragons...

This is it.  OUR CAS LIVES.  I'm so far out on that limb I don't care.  

YUP. I'm hoping that Dean just sits out there all night by Cas because he can't bear to leave his side and when the sun rises, and he finally decides to move his body to ready it for the hunter's funeral they will surely give him, they'll look at his wings and think...this...is wrong.

YAY!! YAY!!! YAAAY!!!!!!

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

YUP. I'm hoping that Dean just sits out there all night by Cas because he can't bear to leave his side and when the sun rises, and he finally decides to move his body to ready it for the hunter's funeral they will surely give him, they'll look at his wings and think...this...is wrong.

YAY!! YAY!!! YAAAY!!!!!!

I so hope you guys are right and the real Cas still lives.  That would be utterly fantastic!

[SueB]

Get T-shirts Catrox!

What made me look again was I thought the "wings" HAD to be the clincher that it was OUR Cas.  Then I saw the dragon and I was like ...woah.  NOT OUR CAS.

I'm downloading my iTunes screen capture and lightening it up.  Back in a bit.

Edited May 20, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

Get T-shirts Catrox!

What made me look again was I thought the "wings" HAD to be the clincher that it was OUR Cas.  Then I saw the dragon and I was like ...woah.  NOT OUR CAS.

I'm downloading my iTunes screen capture and lightening it up.  Back in a bit.

I was thinking the wings looked to full to be OUR CAS, but totally didn't notice the whole dragon thing. AHHHH. All those tears I shed last night.

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was thinking the wings looked to full to be OUR CAS, but totally didn't notice the whole dragon thing. AHHHH. All those tears I shed last night.

I'm still not seeing it as more than a spiky shape (which could be feather shadows), but believe me when I say I am extremely happy that you're finding hope in this. I know what it's like to lose a beloved character and I would have the magnifying glass out by now!

[Binns]

Dragons leave burnt out wings like this? I can't remember the last time we saw a dragon. Though I suppose it could be some freaky other kind of angel. I don't really see what you guys are seeing - I see the circular spiky part but I thought it was just his jacked up wings. 

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm still not seeing it as more than a spiky shape (which could be feather shadows), but believe me when I say I am extremely happy that you're finding hope in this. I know what it's like to lose a beloved character and I would have the magnifying glass out by now!

My hope came before these photos. I posted some specs as why I think it was AU!Cas that died . @SueB found the wing thing which I feel confirmed my suspicions. 

[nightwing877]

17 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

It's possible but, it seems unlikely that they'd have the Js at Upfronts and not announce it (if that was the plan).

Obviously negotiations could fail between now and SDCC so we get a final announcement there. However, i think that if the plan was to make S13 the final season, when writing (March) or filming (April) the season 12 finale they'd have made the announcement this morning. 

Yeah I guess that is true. However it is never uncommon for a show to announce it much later and not at Upfronts. Smallville and Vampire Diaries did theirs at SDCC. Then there are instances like Buffy when SMG didn't want to sign on for season 8, so they ended it. 

But maybe season 13 isn't the end, but they are signing contracts and planning 14 as the final season for an order of 13 episodes. I can't help but think the plan is to end at 300 with 14 seasons. 

So Mary not dying in the season 12 final does make sense, her death could be saved for the end of 13 leading into 14 as a possible final season. Unless they truly want John back and for Mary to still be around when he returns so we get all four together.

[rue721]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the dragon head thing? I mean, I can see the spiky shape, but I'm not understanding what it means or why it's significant?

[SueB]

My "Wings" comments:
 

Cas's Broken Wings in S10: Looking pretty sparse

Cas's Wings in S12 finale: dark smudgy, hard to see

Let's zoom in on those wings: What are those spikey things... and it looks like that Matt Carter pic!

Now super-brighten: Well.. it still looks more serpentine and I could SEE potentially dragon head.

Compare the two: they go in different directions

General shape annotations: S12's swoop around, S10s look like Luci's

Posted at the top of the finale preview on Matt Carter page with the annotations (Photo: The CW.) 

Matt Carter preview

Note: Carter is usually someone who picks up everyone ELSE'S intel and repeats it.  I remarked on this prior to the episode (a couple pages back) and everyone shrugged cause Matt is not much of a "new" source.  TODAY, I "inspected the element" on his page.  It's computer gooblydegook but I THINK this is an OLD CW photo release from Oct 2016.  Which means... it should be NOTHING at all.  However, that wing end immediately had me thinking of this title card with dragons.  I've asked a question about this choice for this article, but I probably won't hear back.

UPDATE:  Matt DID exchange tweets with me.  He said the title card had been around for a while and was not associated with the finale.  So... just random coincidence.  Although... I gotta say..my opinion on the wings stands.

 Still... even if it's not a dragon head... it looks different IMO.

Bottom Line:
- I could see wings being different in an AU ... and if angels are wearing baby ear necklaces... are more serpent like wings possible?
- What Cas has for wings in S10 versus S12 finale looks DIFFERENT -- COULD be artistic license... I think it's a clue.

Edited May 20, 2017 by SueB
UPDATE!

[rue721]

Ah OK. Thanks!

If this is an AU character, would it necessarily be Cas? Wouldn't it have been easier for Lucifer to find AU Jimmy, stuff whatever angel was handy into him, dress him in Cas's clothes, and then shove him through the portal? Or maybe not "easier" per se, but more likely to "look right" to our!Winchesters? I mean because AU Cas could have virtually anybody as a vessel, not necessarily Jimmy, right? Just like Lucifer himself is probably not in Nick's ancient meatsuit in the AU, I would think?

When are you thinking that our!Cas and AU!Cas would have been switched? Before Cas went into the portal the first time, or a subsequent time, or even earlier...? ETA:  I'm wondering if Lucifer and our!Cas interacted at all, because if they did, then wouldn't it just be SO MUCH EASIER for Lucifer to just kill Cas like how we saw? Not that everything is based on efficiency, but it seems like a lot of trouble for Lucifer to create a ruse of killing Cas without killing him -- if our!Cas is at all accessible to him?

If that's an AU character who's dead, then where is our!Cas?!

Hmmm. In any case, I see a slightly different shape than you do, although it's also not the bass clef looking shape that Cas's wings are in in that S10 picture, either. Hopefully this screenshot isn't such bad quality that you can't see it!

Edited May 20, 2017 by rue721
why do I now write in dialect? THROUGH not THROW

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

When are you thinking that our!Cas and AU!Cas would have been switched? Before Cas went into the portal the first time, or a subsequent time, or even earlier...? ETA:  I'm wondering if Lucifer and our!Cas interacted at all, because if they did, then wouldn't it just be SO MUCH EASIER for Lucifer to just kill Cas like how we saw? Not that everything is based on efficiency, but it seems like a lot of trouble for Lucifer to create a ruse of killing Cas without killing him -- if our!Cas is at all accessible to him?

I wrote a couple or 3 theories in the 12.23 ep thread.

6 minutes ago, rue721 said:

If that's an AU character who's dead, then where is our!Cas?!

In my theories OUR!Cas is stuck in the AU.

[Morrigan2575]

41 minutes ago, nightwing877 said:

Yeah I guess that is true. However it is never uncommon for a show to announce it much later and not at Upfronts. Smallville and Vampire Diaries did theirs at SDCC. Then there are instances like Buffy when SMG didn't want to sign on for season 8, so they ended it. 

Smallville was announced at Upfronts not SDCC.

http://screenrant.com/smallville-ending-season-10/

TVD was announced at SDCC but, IIRC there were rumors going around about potentially continuing on without Kat and Ian. I think this came down to July because of contract talks.

I double checked and Nikita as well as One Tree Hill was announced during Upfronts.

Buffy is a different scenario than what people are talking about. Buffy didn't have a planned final season like Smallvile.  Buffy ended because SMG decided not to renew. Buffy also existed before the Netflix deal will strongly favors planned final seasons.

I'm not saying an announcement at SDCC is impossible. However, if that happens I think it will have more to do with contract negotiations than an active choice to end the show (by network, studio, producers, etc)

[SueB]

29 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Smallville was announced at Upfronts not SDCC.

http://screenrant.com/smallville-ending-season-10/

TVD was announced at SDCC but, IIRC there were rumors going around about potentially continuing on without Kat and Ian. I think this came down to July because of contract talks.

I double checked and Nikita as well as One Tree Hill was announced during Upfronts.

Buffy is a different scenario than what people are talking about. Buffy didn't have a planned final season like Smallvile.  Buffy ended because SMG decided not to renew. Buffy also existed before the Netflix deal will strongly favors planned final seasons.

I'm not saying an announcement at SDCC is impossible. However, if that happens I think it will have more to do with contract negotiations than an active choice to end the show (by network, studio, producers, etc)

I TOTALLY think it's going to be an Upfront announcement.  This is kind of the thing where they want to get the advertisers excited hoping people will tune in more for the last season.

42 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Ah OK. Thanks!

If this is an AU character, would it necessarily be Cas? Wouldn't it have been easier for Lucifer to find AU Jimmy, stuff whatever angel was handy into him, dress him in Cas's clothes, and then shove him through the portal? Or maybe not "easier" per se, but more likely to "look right" to our!Winchesters? I mean because AU Cas could have virtually anybody as a vessel, not necessarily Jimmy, right? Just like Lucifer himself is probably not in Nick's ancient meatsuit in the AU, I would think?

When are you thinking that our!Cas and AU!Cas would have been switched? Before Cas went into the portal the first time, or a subsequent time, or even earlier...? ETA:  I'm wondering if Lucifer and our!Cas interacted at all, because if they did, then wouldn't it just be SO MUCH EASIER for Lucifer to just kill Cas like how we saw? Not that everything is based on efficiency, but it seems like a lot of trouble for Lucifer to create a ruse of killing Cas without killing him -- if our!Cas is at all accessible to him?

If that's an AU character who's dead, then where is our!Cas?!

Hmmm. In any case, I see a slightly different shape than you do, although it's also not the bass clef looking shape that Cas's wings are in in that S10 picture, either. Hopefully this screenshot isn't such bad quality that you can't see it!

See my update. Matt confirms the titlecard is not new.  But, I still think the wing shape is more serpent like. 

[nightwing877]

32 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Smallville was announced at Upfronts not SDCC.

http://screenrant.com/smallville-ending-season-10/

TVD was announced at SDCC but, IIRC there were rumors going around about potentially continuing on without Kat and Ian. I think this came down to July because of contract talks.

I double checked and Nikita as well as One Tree Hill was announced during Upfronts.

Buffy is a different scenario than what people are talking about. Buffy didn't have a planned final season like Smallvile.  Buffy ended because SMG decided not to renew. Buffy also existed before the Netflix deal will strongly favors planned final seasons.

I'm not saying an announcement at SDCC is impossible. However, if that happens I think it will have more to do with contract negotiations than an active choice to end the show (by network, studio, producers, etc)

Cheers thanks for confirming this. My bad. Yeah we shall see, I am wondering if 14 could be the end now, and they are trying to plan and get it known they only have 2 years left, but not confirm it until well into 13's production.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Hmmm. In any case, I see a slightly different shape than you do, although it's also not the bass clef looking shape that Cas's wings are in in that S10 picture, either. Hopefully this screenshot isn't such bad quality that you can't see it!

Sorry...all that keeps running through my head is the Beatles in Blackbird:  "take these broken wings and learn to fly..."  

I'm way too old for this.

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Sorry...all that keeps running through my head is the Beatles in Blackbird:  "take these broken wings and learn to fly..."  

I'm way too old for this.

So @clarissa373 (from TV Addict) have had about a half-hour tweet fest. She thinks the wings are broken and we'll get AU!Cas.  I still think it's hinky.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

So @clarissa373 (from TV Addict) have had about a half-hour tweet fest. She thinks the wings are broken and we'll get AU!Cas.  I still think it's hinky.

You mean she thinks OUR!Cas is dead and AU!Cas lives. NO BOO! I reject this. NOPE NOPE NOPE. 

[SueB]

Just now, catrox14 said:

You mean she thinks OUR!Cas is dead and AU!Cas lives. NO BOO! I reject this. NOPE NOPE NOPE. 

I support you in your rejection.  I see her point but I just can't accept the loss of OUR Cas.

[ahrtee]

Once upon a time (in a galaxy far far away) I watched the show Hercules.  I remember his best friend Iolaus was killed and returned, at one point being replaced by his double from an alternate universe.  I stopped watching long before the end, so I don't remember what happened, but according to their wiki site, http://hercules-xena.wikia.com/wiki/Iolaus:

The Many Deaths of Iolaus

Iolaus died four times on the show, but managed to be alive at the end nonetheless.

...

The fourth time was at the beginning of the fifth season, when Iolaus was killed by Gilgamesh, who in turn was possessed by the demon Dahak. Dahak then took over Iolaus' body, creating havoc throughout Greece and Sumeria, and was finally exorcised by Hercules and Iolaus together at the end of the season. Iolaus then went to an unspecified afterlife, but one which recognized his service in life "to the light" (on the side of good). At that time, the plan was for Iolaus to remain dead, which caused a great deal of turmoil in the fandom, and many fans stopped watching the show. (It also inspired a large amount of fanfic with alternate realities where Iolaus wasn't killed, and many stories where he was brought back to life.) Michael Hurst returned to the show playing the character of "The Jester" for a few episodes, an alternate version of Iolaus from another dimension who couldn't fight and tended to faint from terror.

In the final episode of the fifth season, the main Iolaus returned to the show. He escaped to the world of the living to warn Hercules about the coming of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. He then finished out the sixth season traveling with Hercules until the show ended.

(emphasis mine).  

Just sayin', sounds kind of familiar...

[nightwing877]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Once upon a time (in a galaxy far far away) I watched the show Hercules.  I remember his best friend Iolaus was killed and returned, at one point being replaced by his double from an alternate universe.  I stopped watching long before the end, so I don't remember what happened, but according to their wiki site, http://hercules-xena.wikia.com/wiki/Iolaus:

The Many Deaths of Iolaus

Iolaus died four times on the show, but managed to be alive at the end nonetheless.

...

The fourth time was at the beginning of the fifth season, when Iolaus was killed by Gilgamesh, who in turn was possessed by the demon Dahak. Dahak then took over Iolaus' body, creating havoc throughout Greece and Sumeria, and was finally exorcised by Hercules and Iolaus together at the end of the season. Iolaus then went to an unspecified afterlife, but one which recognized his service in life "to the light" (on the side of good). At that time, the plan was for Iolaus to remain dead, which caused a great deal of turmoil in the fandom, and many fans stopped watching the show. (It also inspired a large amount of fanfic with alternate realities where Iolaus wasn't killed, and many stories where he was brought back to life.) Michael Hurst returned to the show playing the character of "The Jester" for a few episodes, an alternate version of Iolaus from another dimension who couldn't fight and tended to faint from terror.

In the final episode of the fifth season, the main Iolaus returned to the show. He escaped to the world of the living to warn Hercules about the coming of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. He then finished out the sixth season traveling with Hercules until the show ended.

(emphasis mine).  

Just sayin', sounds kind of familiar...

Yeah it does also Dahak and Gabrielle's child Hope from Xena. Lucifer and the mythology of angels and heavens was my first exposure on Xena and Hercules. 

[Wayward Son]

As devastated as I am to say it I'm fairly confident that is our Cas permanately dead! I personally just don't find the theories of AU conveniently being in the right place at the right time with the same clothing as our Cas all that feasible.

Plus, the "and Misha Collins" credit, the focus on how he started compared to where he is now was, the "I love you" speech was all build up to a final goodbye. That is why I have been speculating his death, or some other exit, since quite early in the season.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Geordiegirl1967]

Jared just said at JIB con that Misha will be in the Scooby Doo animated ep which will be ep 16 of season 3.

Apparently they've already recorded the dialogue. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[DeansDorkyAngel]

Lol, rejoice Cas' fans :D Jared done f***end up and dropped a major spoiler :D. Misha will be back as they just filmed 13x16 Scooby Doo ep.

I AM SO Happy!!!!!!

[Wayward Son]

38 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Jared just said at JIB con that Misha will be in the Scooby Doo animated ep which will be ep 16 of season 3.

Apparently they've already recorded the dialogue. 

 

27 minutes ago, DeansDorkyAngel said:

Lol, rejoice Cas' fans :D Jared done f***end up and dropped a major spoiler :D. Misha will be back as they just filmed 13x16 Scooby Doo ep.

I AM SO Happy!!!!!!

I would imagine Jared was probably joking around with fans! The writers only started writing last week, and Id imagine that would have been for the start of the season rather than an ep as late as 16!

[Wynne88]

A cartoon episode would seem to lend itself to including people who aren't there in real life.  Just saying.

[Wayward Son]

14 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

A cartoon episode would seem to lend itself to including people who aren't there in real life.  Just saying.

True and if Jared was being serious, and not just joking, the reason they chose to record for such a late episode so early may be due to the fact they wanted Misha to 'return' for a guest stint and wanted to make sure they got his parts before he left. 

[Wynne88]

Quote

True and if Jared was being serious, and not just joking, the reason they chose to record for such a late episode so early may be due to the fact they wanted Misha to 'return' for a guest stint and wanted to make sure they got his parts before he left. 

Could be.  Also, I think I read where one of the guys said that they did it early because it takes so long to draw the animations.  Can't remember where I saw that though.  It was after the Up Fronts.

[Aeryn13]

Normally you record dialogue for animation after it is drawn so basically you can watch the clips and try to match your voice work with it. Pretty much like dubbing in foreign languages. 

IMO it would be really stupid to record the dialogue first and then super-impose it to the animation. It will lead to a scenario where the voice work looks shoddy because it often doesn`t match very well. 

Unless maybe the episode just has some animation scenes and is otherwise a real life episode so it isn`t that many. 

Not keen on the concept either way. Scooby Doo of all things? Weren`t there better x-over potentials?

I doubt a x-over with Arrow or any of the Berlanti-verse shows btw. Of them all, Arrow would make the most sense and it did have supernatural elemensts previously. But unless you broke both of Oliver`s legs and arms, the discrepancy in terms of stunt/action scenes in both shows just makes me shudder. It`s like the difference between an action movie and a rom-com. 

[ILoveReading]

Quote

each Simpsons episode takes 6-8 months to create. A South Park episode only takes five days to write, animate, sound, and produce

Animation can take a long time.  A pixar movie takes about 6-8 months to animate but can take 4 years from start to finish.  According to Jim Michaels two scooby doo writers are penning the script, so if its a complete stand alone it is very possible that it was written and the guys did the dialogue for it already.  So episode 16 is not out of the question.

I couldn't find the tweet, so it may not have been Jim but I found the name of the writers. 

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There will be an Animated SCOOBY DOO crossover episode. No I’m not making this up. (x) It will be written by Jeremy Adams and Jim Krieg

This is the one who had the summary of spoilers last year, and her's were pretty accurate.

Misha also confirmed that Cas will be back but isn't sure how his death will transform him so we will get Misha but not sure what version of Cas. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by ILoveReading

[SueB]

A VERY SHAKY video from JIBCon that IMO confirms Misha isn't leaving because they are joking about 'cutting the fat' to his face in an obvious 'he's going nowhere' way. 

http://cassammydean.tumblr.com/post/160871326871/fyeahdestiel-end-of-jared-and-jensens-panel-plus

And the house story is hilarious. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I doubt a x-over with Arrow or any of the Berlanti-verse shows btw. Of them all, Arrow would make the most sense and it did have supernatural elemensts previously. But unless you broke both of Oliver`s legs and arms, the discrepancy in terms of stunt/action scenes in both shows just makes me shudder. It`s like the difference between an action movie and a rom-com. 

Even though there are more choreographed big practical stunts in Arrow, hand to hand fighting would be right in J2 wheelhouse. It would be fun to have Oliver be involved in some kind of werewolf hunt given SA was once a werewolf on Vampire Diaries .heh.

[Aeryn13]

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Even though there are more choreographed big practical stunts in Arrow, hand to hand fighting would be right in J2 wheelhouse.

Oliver would wipe the floor with them in 0.2 seconds, it`s just no comparism in my eyes. The Winchesters can do brawl-style fighting, coupled with some blocking techniques but they are not martial artists and especially not well-versed in several different fighting styles. A lot of human characters in the Berlanti-verse are practically master martial artists. And not just flashy nonsense but incredible moves and skill on a lot of them. As long as the shows are kept separate, that`s okay, but if there ever were any x-over, it would make the level of SPN stunt fighting look terribly underwhelming. I would cringe watching it. 

And if the narrative leaned more on the supernatural aspect (and didn`t require martial arts/fighting) where the Winchesters are superior, it would make the x-over aspect obsolete. I think what is the respective shows bread and butter is too different. 

On paper I`ve seen crazier-seeming x-overs (paging Bones and Sleepy Hollow here) but they had the investigative aspect in common.

IMO would tonally/thematically work with the 100 but for story reasons that can`t happen. Also Originals which for lore reasons can`t happen. The DC shows are a no-go for me.

For the same reason that it is nearly impossible to come up with a workable spin-off, it is in my eyes really hard to come up with a good x-over show.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Geordiegirl1967]

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I would imagine Jared was probably joking around with fans! The writers only started writing last week, and Id imagine that would have been for the start of the season rather than an ep as late as 16

I don't think so. I'm assuming this is the 'stuff they did for s13' that they talked about a couple of weeks ago. And there is a long lead in time for animation. It's a clever idea because other than recording the voices, which they've done, there'll be very little other filming giving them all more days to play with during the season. If the Js have an agreement that they get x days off from filming per season we've just ticked off 8 of them right there, and without having to create silly excuses for them separating in the script. (The whole 'you go on your own into that dangerous situation, while I do this other risky thing on my own' schtick is wearing a bit thin). 

It is the usual approach in animation to do the voices first before the animation. I've seen interviews with actors who've done voices for e.g. Pixar films. They always do the voices without seeing the animation. 

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Normally you record dialogue for animation after it is drawn so basically you can watch the clips and try to match your voice work with it. Pretty much like dubbing in foreign languages. 

IMO it would be really stupid to record the dialogue first and then super-impose it to the animation. It will lead to a scenario where the voice work looks shoddy because it often doesn`t match very well. 

That's not how it works. It's done the other way round.