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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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First off, I googled "singlets".  Don't do it. It's wrestler-wear.  I love the guys, I don't want to see them in even the most tame of those.

 

Second, if I was going to pick one -- it HAS to be Sam.  He's so gigantic.  But, I suspect it's going to be FBI threads versus undercover for this one.  

 

And at last! A spoiler.  Sure, a MOTW episode, but it tells us (as we already suspected) whatever happens at mid-season doesn't prevent the regular flow of episodes until the end of the season (per usual).  Seems to me the pattern is (approximately) based on previous years:

1-3 Mytharc

4-5 Lighter/unusual

6-8 MOTW

9-10 Mytharc

11-14 Mostly MOTW with some Mytharc threads

15-17 One of these is Mytharc

18-19 MOTW

20-21 Setup for Mytharc heavier than MOTW

22-23 Mytharc

 

Opinions?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

Second, if I was going to pick one -- it HAS to be Sam.  He's so gigantic.

 

Wrestler outfits is not a look I particularly care for but if they go undercover, in the episode where Teen!Dean was at Sonny`s, wasn`t he winning trophies on a wrestling team? It would be nice if that was one skill that is introduced for Dean and was kept by Dean and not given to Sam once the requisite episode rolls around. We already had that crap with poker and I`m still soured on it.

 

All in all, I would prefer either FBI or I don`t know coaching or staff undercover. Otherwise, knowing the show, it can get cringeworthy real fast.  

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catrox14

catrox14

Actual collegiate/freestyle singlets look pretty great on the right physique (the ex wrestled 167 weight class in high school and college and was hella hot in it...just sayin;)).

 

So given Dean did wrestle whilst he was in school during his boys home time and won the championship he probably knows how to throw a sweet double leg takedown and I would pay all the money to watch Jensen do that.

 

But knowing this show, they'll make a mockery of his wrestling days and it will be played for laughs.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I cringed.  Honest-to-Chuck cringed when I read about the wrestling episode.  It sounds like TPTB wanted to do a wrestling episode, then decided that someone would be haunted or possessed or whatever.  I much preferred the show when they chose the monster, then built a story around it.

 

But, hey, I could be wrong.  Could be some weird Greco-Roman wrestling god that's wreaking havoc.  

 

Ay yi yi.  The things this show makes me write.  (Thanks to whoever originated that line.  Sorry I can't remember who.)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So here's an article speculating why Amell could  appear on SPN....and it goes to my WAG.

 

but I don't think it would be a full role, more like a quick cameo. 

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Arrow-Stephen-Amell-Appear-Supernatural-Here-Why-We-re-Hopeful-108347.html

 

And if it does happen, then Arrow better damn well return the favor with Winchesters showing up on Arrow but again I would imagine a cameo not a full role.

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Official synopsis of 11.10 "The Devil in the Details"

 

http://www.thetvaddict.com/2015/12/31/the-cw-teasers-the-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-supernatural-reign-and-more/

 

 

SUPERNATURAL 11.10 “The Devil in the Details”: Now that he has Sam (Jared Padalecki) in the cage with him, Lucifer (guest star Mark Pellegrino) offers Sam a way out but it comes with a steep price. Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) look into the angel smiting that could have killed Amara (guest star Emily Swallow).

 

I hate official sypnoses, I swear.  Are they really trying to tell me that Dean is not going to try and figure out WTF happened to Sam?

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

"Steep price" = deal. And, yeah, WTF with Dean not going after Sam?!?

 

 

I swear to Gods if Dean trying to figure out if Amara was smote is NOT tied directly into what happened to Sam...then they better have it be that Dean is totally being mind controlled by Amara because there is no fucking way in Hell I believe Dean would just not go after him. Or it's part of bigger plan that we don't know about. I just won't believe it especially with Dean saying 'Don't do it without me'

 

I was thinking back to Dean saying at the beginning of O Brother Where Art Thou

 

Dean: "If Lucifer touched you, it would be the last thing you think. Ever."

 

And in the preview we see Lucifer apparently touching Sam's forehead....I don't like this....at all. :(. It scares me because that sounded like some major foreshadowing. What do you guys think about that?

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

 

Are they really trying to tell me that Dean is not going to try and figure out WTF happened to Sam?

Maybe Dean is following Sam's new rules where they're supposed to put saving others before saving themselves.  

 

The more likely explanation is that Dean doesn't know Sam needs rescuing.  As for as Dean is concerned Sam is topside waiting for him to get back.  He has no clue Sam went back on his word. 

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Wynne88

Wynne88

Didn't Jensen say in an interview that Sam goes off without Dean, and that Dean has to follow him?  I'm thinking this isn't a very complete synopsis, or maybe it's a deliberate misdirect.

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7kstar

7kstar

Dean will look for Sam unless Carver has decided it's Dean's turn to be written stupidly.

 

But I would guess, he doesn't know his brother broke his word again and Cas shows up and distracts him from checking in on his brother.  But I'm afraid this is Carver repeating the season mess up with Dean this time instead of Sam.

 

At least they somehow get back together, how I don't know and hopefully I won't feel the need to break my TV!  ;)

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SueB

SueB

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I'm still convinced that the preview we saw was legit. I think when Luci touches Sam, he gives hi a 'vision' of a Rowena/Crowley Christmas. I wonder if Sam experiences what it's like to be a "Sam" Funko doll. Regardless, that preview had Dean interact with Billie. Plus Jensen said he was filming a scene with Billie for EP10. I can't imagine why Dean would look for a Reaper except to break into Hell. So... I think Dean eventually looks for Sam once he realizes where he's at.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Yeah, I'm with you SueB. I imagine there's going to be the Lucifer "illusion" on Sam's side and Dean is probably unaware of Sam rushing into to Hell without him until more than halfway through the episode. So, Dean's side will start with him looking into the Amara-smiting until he learns about Sam. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual rescue of Sam doesn't span into the following episode.

 

Didn't Loflin say at the beginning of the season they were going to do some serialization they don't normally do? That would fit if these episodes were basically a three-parter. Wasn't there also something about doing a couple episodes set in the same location--or was that just me speculating? Do we have a synopsis of 11.11 yet?

 

Sorry, haven't had the will to keep up with all the spoilers and interviews this season, so I could be way off base here. 

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Some time back a spoiler for episode 11 was that it featured some elderly woman in a retirement home with a crush on Dean. That says standalone to me. So, I`m pretty convinced episode 10 will conclude episode 9. Obviously, Amara won`t die. She was even seen in the trailer so this part of the summary is pretty pointless.

 

And Sam will get out of the cage. If they are really lame Lucifer will ride out with him, just lying dormant like Gadreel. Then Lucifer!Sam could randomely pop up and basically replay that same story, only this time Dean wouldn`t know. Sam agreeing to this would be massively stupid of course. It would also spell out the Finale as Suck Song 2.0 right away. 

 

Other than getting out, I don`t see what Lucifer would want. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

Yeah, I'm with you SueB. I imagine there's going to be the Lucifer "illusion" on Sam's side and Dean is probably unaware of Sam rushing into to Hell without him until more than halfway through the episode. So, Dean's side will start with him looking into the Amara-smiting until he learns about Sam. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual rescue of Sam doesn't span into the following episode.

 

The last thing Dean experienced before Amara zapped him away was him ready to answer Sam's call. I can't find a legitimate reason for Dean to not call Sam back as soon as some of his wits back when he's standing there in front of the hot dog stand, given how many times they emphasized that he doesn't go in without Dean(unless it's part of a bigger plan). If Sam doesn't return his call IMO, Dean would immediately start his search for Sam which means rounding up Cas and going after Crowley and/or Rowena.  As to the idea of Dean letting Sam do his thing, I don't buy that when it comes to Lucifer.

 

What I could buy is Dean needing to figure out what happened to Amara, IF it's determined or he believes there is no other way to save Sam.  I want to hang my hat on that but I don't trust the writers.

Edited by catrox14
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lmdreamer

lmdreamer

(edited)

as a wrestling fan I can't wait for this episode.  It sounds like it could be more of an independent promotion featured which would fit in with the show.  I hope there are cameos however.  I always thought spn should have a wrestling themed episode.  Wrestlers are generally a tight knit group who are near-nomads almost like sam and dean in the show and on the independant scene their life can be almost as hazardous. Look up the films beyond the mat and the wrestler(the mickey rourke one) and you will see what I mean. If they are going to be in singlets/tights then maybe they will be undercover as aspiring trainees.  Wrestling also has there own fair share of urban legends and people who died in or around the ring so maybe the motw will be a ghost or hex bag.  

Another way I thought the spn world could blend in with the wrestling world is if they do go to a wwe-like company to find that it is a safe haven for creatures or supernaturally influenced humans to act on there instincts while the company provides for their needs. Kind of like a wolfram and hart/ carotoss situation. controlled combat under a sports entertainment guise. Under that premise a wrestlers like taker and kane are demons taking on someone like neville who is a vampire or whatever. 

 

On a side not if J2 visit ever visit wwe raw I demand a segment with kane,taker, or bray wyatt.

Edited by lmdreamer
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rue721

rue721

Other than getting out, I don`t see what Lucifer would want. 

 

If Lucifer knows about Amara being released, he might want to instigate a fight between her and God, in the hopes that they'd destroy the world or wipe each other out or something during it.

 

He might also have plans to trick or influence Amara, in order to get her to (unwittingly) do his dirty work for him ("dirty work" such as pissing off God, destroying the world, killing God, etc etc etc). Amara is super powerful AND super naive, which makes her a pretty ripe target for exploitation. I would think Lucifer would see that and at least try to take advantage.

 

I think that Lucifer will want to use Sam as a meatsuit in any case, but he might have specific plans/ambitions for once he gets out, too.

 

It'll be interesting to see him interact with Amara (in whatever meatsuit he's ultimately in), since she apparently has a strong connection with anyone who bares the Mark, and Lucifer was the first one to have it. It would be pretty in-character for him to underestimate her, and to be more vulnerable to her/more at her mercy than he realizes. Maybe she'll end up playing him, and then God will play them both.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Is it just me or has anyone else considered Lucifer wants out so he can join Amara on her revenge tour?

 

I'm thinking the point of this Lucifer storyline is going to be for them to realize Lucifer isn't going to be a solution. I think this will be a lesson for them; they can't trust him, they let him out...it's just too dangerous. They'll have to find another way, I think. It could be just that I've been considering how much this season has felt like S5 in many ways. So, just like their attempt to shoot the Devil in the head, I'm thinking this will turn out to be a failure too.

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rue721

rue721

Is it just me or has anyone else considered Lucifer wants out so he can join Amara on her revenge tour?

 

I think that's pretty likely to be what ends up happening, but I don't think that's *why* he wants out. Lucifer just doesn't seem like much of a joiner.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Amara is super powerful AND super naive, which makes her a pretty ripe target for exploitation. I would think Lucifer would see that and at least try to take advantage.

 

I don't think she's naive.  I think she has a viewpoint and it doesn't involve free will.   She seems to have a plan. She spoke to her younger self about staying to their purpose. Despite her "fascination" with Dean as a representation of God's creation, she doesn't seem to really give a rat's ass about what happens to humans after she takes their souls. So to me her fascination is with the soul more than the human meatsuit.

 

It seems to me her goal is the harvesting of souls, but for what reason?  Why does she want them with her forever? Does she need the souls to exist?  Is she holding those souls hostage to get God to do what she wants, (assuming God is whom she is seeking to confront)?   The question remains as to why she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't take Dean's soul. 

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SueB

SueB

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I don't think she's naive.  I think she has a viewpoint and it doesn't involve free will.   She seems to have a plan. She spoke to her younger self about staying to their purpose. Despite her "fascination" with Dean as a representation of God's creation, she doesn't seem to really give a rat's ass about what happens to humans after she takes their souls. So to me her fascination is with the soul more than the human meatsuit.

 

It seems to me her goal is the harvesting of souls, but for what reason?  Why does she want them with her forever? Does she need the souls to exist?  Is she holding those souls hostage to get God to do what she wants, (assuming God is whom she is seeking to confront)?   The question remains as to why she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't take Dean's soul. 

 

I see a certain "otherness" to her which doesn't make her naive so much as unfamiliar.  Fish out of water kind of a thing.

 

But when she told Dean "that's all you need to know for now" it was both controlling and telling.  It dismisses Dean's agency and also suggests that perhaps he might not be okay with her big plan.  

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Is it just me or has anyone else considered Lucifer wants out so he can join Amara on her revenge tour?

 

I'm thinking the point of this Lucifer storyline is going to be for them to realize Lucifer isn't going to be a solution. I think this will be a lesson for them; they can't trust him, they let him out...it's just too dangerous. They'll have to find another way, I think. It could be just that I've been considering how much this season has felt like S5 in many ways. So, just like their attempt to shoot the Devil in the head, I'm thinking this will turn out to be a failure too.

 

I personally would be annoyed by the repeat, myself, because I've had enough lessons on him being wrong for Sam... which is what this would be for me. Dean all along has said that they shouldn't trust Lucifer and not to depend on God, so Dean has no "lesson" to learn here, because Dean would have been right about this all along.

 

I also don't agree with the season 5 comparison so much, but I've taken that and the rest of my thoughts on this to the "Supernatural Bitterness and Unpopular Opinions" thread, because it ain't pretty.

 

I think that's pretty likely to be what ends up happening, but I don't think that's *why* he wants out. Lucifer just doesn't seem like much of a joiner.

 

I agree, and I also don't think he's much of a follower either. Unlike say the Crowley/Castiel team-up where Crowley was apparently willing to keep his mouth shut and be a good little follower partner in the relationship while he worked his own agenda, I think Lucifer's ego would bristle at the first put down, upperhand power display, or demand for subservience from Amara. I can't see Lucifer as wanting to play second fiddle to anyone, even if it would get him something he wanted. Maybe.  As I said before, from what I've seen of Lucifer, I think he would be angry if Amara destroyed the world or maybe even God, because he, Lucifer, then couldn't be the one to have done it, but someone else could. I think Lucifer would rather stop Amara than have her be able to do what he couldn't, but I could be wrong about that.

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SueB

SueB

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ITA that Luci is no one's second fiddle.  Not in his mind, not ever.  He may pretend for a bit, but he thinks he's the smartest person in the room.... he won't last long in any kind of partnership.  

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

ITA that Luci is no one's second fiddle.  Not in his mind, not ever.  He may pretend for a bit, but he thinks he's the smartest person in the room.... he won't last long in any kind of partnership.  

 

I only meant that I don't think Lucifer wants out to fight against Amara. It sounds like most other people have been speculating how Lucifer wants out to help put Amara back away. I'm just wondering if he gives even one little rat's ass about Amara being loose.

 

Personally, I think he's just taking the opportunity that was afforded him right now to escape the cage. I can also see the possibility of him thinking he could team up with Amara to defeat God then turn around and take out Amara. However, I think it more likely Lucifer would try to stay out of it entirely. He might just be thinking he'd let Amara and God duke it out, then deal with whatever pieces are left over. Kinda like how Crowley managed to end up King of Hell.

ETA: I'm sure Kim Rhodes is just trying to squash the 10,000 questions she gets, every time she's set to return to the show, on whether Jodi is going to bite it this time. I certainly hope they don't kill her off, but I wouldn't put it past the show either. 

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rue721

rue721

It sounds like most other people have been speculating how Lucifer wants out to help put Amara back away. I'm just wondering if he gives even one little rat's ass about Amara being loose.

 

I haven't heard anyone speculating that. Are you talking about hearing that theory here, or in general? Tbh, the theory of Lucifer wanting to help lock Amara back up doesn't make logical sense to me (if that is anyone's spec, how would that benefit Lucifer?).

 

He's not a team player, so I think it's unlikely that he'd ever "help" anyone, even in the case of his interests aligning with theirs. And regarding Amara, it seems like his interests wouldn't even be aligned with Team "Lock Up Amara," so...

 

As for whether Lucifer would be interested in the news of Amara's release:  I would think that Lucifer would have enough sense to see that a blowout between God and Amara would likely benefit him personally, so my guess is that he'd be interested in instigating that fight -- and therefore, is interested in whether Amara is loose. It's a good opportunity for him.

 

Lucifer's priority right now is probably getting out of the Cage, because being trapped in there is his most pressing problem atm, but if that's his ONLY angle, then he's a fool. 

 

Also, to be frank, I don't want Lucifer to team up with the Winchesters (for any reason). The idea is pretty repugnant. The show has implied that Lucifer raped Sam over and over; imo, they've succeeded at making him convincingly irredeemable. And I already feel bad for Sam that he's so fucked up that he actually went down to the Cage for help/info. They don't need to make things even more heartbreaking by having Sam agree to team up with the bastard.

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SueB

SueB

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Just spitballin' here... but Luci's got quite the ego... so I'd think that perhaps getting to be let out of the cage and be the Morning Star again might be a tempting reason to cooperate.  Or, perhaps, if Amara eats all the souls, then maybe it'll be boring? Although I'm not sure how interesting the Cage is anyway.  IDK.  I could see some rationale about how it could make his situation worse and thus he would be motivated.  She's kind of universe-building here... there may be an issue with his existence.  Maybe she'll get around to eating his grace??

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I just have to hang my hopes on the boys having a plan or that Cas is going to save Sam. I mean I just cannot accept that  Sam is going in there without any kind of back up plan. He's too smart for that. 

 

I was just rewatching all the Lucifer/Sam and Lucifer!Sam scenes and I'm not gonna lie, I would like to see Jared play him again. I think that is the best work Jared has ever done in the show JMHO. 

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I mean I just cannot accept that  Sam is going in there without any kind of back up plan.

 

But his plan was "God chose me as the Saviour of mankind once again, he has a plan". Why would he make a back-up plan for that? His plan was to follow God`s plan as God`s Chosen One.

 

And if he plays Lucifer again, you can be sure it will be in the Finale as actually the Saviour of Mankind. In which case, kiss every chance of Dean doing more than kneeling in the dirt goodbye. Sam plays Lucifer is synonymous with "Dean who" at this point. So no thanks.   

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SueB

SueB

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But his plan was "God chose me as the Saviour of mankind once again, he has a plan". Why would he make a back-up plan for that? His plan was to follow God`s plan as God`s Chosen One.

 

And if he plays Lucifer again, you can be sure it will be in the Finale as actually the Saviour of Mankind. In which case, kiss every chance of Dean doing more than kneeling in the dirt goodbye. Sam plays Lucifer is synonymous with "Dean who" at this point. So no thanks.   

 

I thought Sam's thinking was more along the lines of: "After I begged him, God gave me a hint on how to clean up this mess I made and I'm desperate to do anything because shit is real bad now."  Less "Savior" more "desperation".  Please note, this is my thinking of SAM's thinking, not what I think... i.e. I'm not playing blame game on Sam. I'm saying Sam blamed himself when he was praying to God and multiple times after (although he doesn't say it that way in front of Dean or else Dean corrects him).  

 

So, I think Sam feels likes he's more "Destroyer" than "Savior".  Which means yes, I think he has no backup plan because his plan was simply to TALK to Luci.  He had already put in more precautions than he originally thought.  He thought he had to go into the Cage.  The precautions of a "neutral" cage in Limbo with Rowena using warding spells from Book of the Damned was his plan.  

 

Having no further back-up plan and going in without Dean is "writer convenience for plot".  It's not great but they can put some thin papering over that plot hole with "Sam is desperate".  

 

If ANYONE has "Chosen One" status this year, it's Dean.  He's the one Amara is fascinated by and is macking on.  He's the one she won't or can't suck his soul out of.  I'd bet 500 quatloos* on Dean being the key to defeating Amara.

 

*Gratuitous Star Trek: The Original Series reference

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

I'd bet 500 quatloos* on Dean being the key to defeating Amara.

 

*Gratuitous Star Trek: The Original Series reference

 

Damn, a bet I can lose and not actually lose anything tangible...sigh, unfortunately I agree with you and can't bring myself to to take you up on it just because I won't lose. ;)

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Myrelle

Myrelle

Eh. I think they might use Dean to trap Amara but I'm dubious that he'll actually get to do anything. It will be Sam and Michael.

 

At this point, this feels more likely to me also-but hey, if it happens this way, it would w/o a doubt be that final nudge that I obviously need to drop the show from my DVR list.(and hopefully, it would finally convince Mr. Ackles to move on too).

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I thought Sam's thinking was more along the lines of: "After I begged him, God gave me a hint on how to clean up this mess I made and I'm desperate to do anything because shit is real bad now."  Less "Savior" more "desperation".

 

I know this is what the show wants to convey but it is another example of "tell" and execution being on two different planets for me. It`s the same message they fucked up in Season 5 and every Season since. At this point I hate the neverending trope of Dean having no self worth but at least the show managed to convince me it is true. 

 

As for the end solution to defeat Amara and save the world, I do believe Sam is likely but I doubt Michael would play a role. The character hasn`t even been mentioned in episode 9 with all the cage kerfluffle because he is not a Sam-character. I do not see them change this. Other candidates for Saviour might be Cas or even Crowley. Or a brought-to-life-again Charlie. Or a random yet to be introduced character. I`d give all of them odds over Dean. This is just not and has never been the show, not in 11 years.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

I live in constant fear that they are going to give Michael to someone else when we've yet to see Jensen play him. I just know that I could not stomach seeing that. I'd rather they just leave him out of the story entirely, before they do that.

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shang yiet

shang yiet

As Sam is one of the lead characters, he should be the savior, not guest star characters. It'll make a refreshing change if someone else is the screw-up this time. But I agree that it looks like Dean is the chosen one this time and will  be proven right every single step along the way, This always happens. I'm guessing Amara's bond and love for Dean will save the say. True love and all that. Be still, my beating heart.

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catrox14

catrox14

Synopsis of "Into the Mystic"

 

 

DEE WALLACE GUEST STARS — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) investigate a case where people are suffering violent deaths after hearing a mysterious song. John Badham directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson (#1111).  Original airdate 1/27/2016.

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