Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[Emma]

Does the leak really hurt though? ABC probably doesn't care about the ratings this late in the game. They're planning a reboot and are probably hoping Beckett/Stana fans bolt. Had this happened 3-4 episodes into the season then it might have been an issue. Sure, they probably would have preferred the announcement came after but I don't think they're losing sleep over how it went down.

I also don't think ABC or Nathan are worried about their reputations in this either. They've got bigger things to focus on now.

I doubt Stana cares about the ratings for her last episodes too. Why would she? Unless there's a major bump in screen time or some Emmy worthy scenes involved, I expect more of the same. Nothing of importance involving her character.

I am curious if she'll give any further statement or exit interview once the season ends? I'm sure she's been asked for them. On one hand, I can see her wanting to thanks fans again, acknowledge the crew, some of the cast, and maybe something about playing Beckett. On the other hand, I can see her wanting to avoid any fake comments and leave this chapter behind her.

I'm also curious about what's next for her. While pickings can be slim at times, there is more out there than TV movies of the week.

[verdana]

I've been reading reactions to all of this over at ONTD. That place is often a cesspool, but the outrage over there is endlessly amusing to me. Don't read if you're a Nathan fan, though.

Whoah you're not kidding! I note one poster said their friend worked at ABC and they'd ask them what shit went down (yeah I know it's handy these people knowing a "friend") and apparently the story was leaked and ABC didn't want it released until after the season finale. I'm prepared to believe this insider gossip 100%. It makes perfect sense, I can't imagine them wanting this crapfest on their door in the lead up to the final four episodes in a million years. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

I am curious if she'll give any further statement or exit interview once the season ends? I'm sure she's been asked for them. On one hand, I can see her wanting to thanks fans again, acknowledge the crew, some of the cast, and maybe something about playing Beckett. On the other hand, I can see her wanting to avoid any fake comments and leave this chapter behind her.

I wish she'd do a final interview looking back over her time playing Beckett and her feelings on the role and what's she taken away from it as an actress, what her favourite moments were (I know she's sort of done that on twitter but I'd prefer it done properly), things she wanted to happen that didn't etc. I doubt I'll get anything though, looks like fans will have to be content with her tweets and photos.  I don't expect Fillion to say another word about it, he's made his statement that's it folks. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

Does the leak really hurt though? ABC probably doesn't care about the ratings this late in the game. They're planning a reboot and are probably hoping Beckett/Stana fans bolt. Had this happened 3-4 episodes into the season then it might have been an issue. Sure, they probably would have preferred the announcement came after but I don't think they're losing sleep over how it went down.

I also don't think ABC or Nathan are worried about their reputations in this either. They've got bigger things to focus on now.

I doubt Stana cares about the ratings for her last episodes too. Why would she? Unless there's a major bump in screen time or some Emmy worthy scenes involved, I expect more of the same. Nothing of importance involving her character.

 

The ratings this year will help determine the advertising money next year if the show is called "Castle," so I'm sure both ABC and Nathan care about the ratings from here on to the end of the season.  And I think Stana cares as well for the sake of her future...although maybe a huge drop in ratings after the announcement about her leaving would be good for marketing how popular she is....although I think Castle has hit bottom, so it can't fall much further.

[TWP]

One thing I know for certain about Castle.  You NEVER want to be promoted to captain on that show.  That promotion means certain "death". 

 

Ruben, Penny, now Stana all met their fate via the "Captain's" chair.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[Sara2009]

Whoah you're not kidding! I note one poster said their friend worked at ABC and they'd ask them what shit went down (yeah I know it's handy these people knownig a "friend") and apparently the story was leaked and ABC didn't want it released until after the season finale. I'm prepared to believe this insider gossip 100%. It makes perfect sense, I can't imagine them wanting this crapfest on their door in the lead up to the final four episodes in a million years.

I sort of believe it too. I'm still not sure about Nathan being 100% the villain, though.

[pepper]

 

Now Nathan doesn't always come off as genuine, but so many people talk about how great he is and they seem genuine. So, he must be a generally good guy.

He tweeted quite gleefully about serving pork drippings to vegetarians attending a barbecue at his home. They didn't know and thought the "veggie" burgers were great. He thought he was hilarious. Character is what you do when no one is watching. But then, I guess tweeting about it later means he doesn't agree with that philosophy. After that, I didn't need other people to tell me what he was like. He had already told me. I still loved the character he played though. But not enough to watch him after this debacle. It would make me need a shower after each viewing, even if I'd had one before I watched. Ugh

[madmaverick]

He tweeted quite gleefully about serving pork drippings to vegetarians attending a barbecue at his home. They didn't know and thought the "veggie" burgers were great. He thought he was hilarious. Character is what you do when no one is watching. But then, I guess tweeting about it later means he doesn't agree with that philosophy. After that, I didn't need other people to tell me what he was like. He had already told me. I still loved the character he played though. But not enough to watch him after this debacle. It would make me need a shower after each viewing, even if I'd had one before I watched. Ugh

I thought that was a joke or an accident not purposeful, but whatever.

 

Mileage varies on people's sense of humour but it's not a crime in my book.  I don't condemn people's character based on that.  In fact, I think I must be more careful about exercising judgment on events and on the character of people that I don't actually know than 90% of the fandom for whom it doesn't seem to take much.  A tweet here, a tabloid blurb there, and boom I know all about you, your life, your character, and you're dead to me.  A lot of people seem to actively take pleasure in judging people and playing judge, jury, executioner. I wish those people were equally interested in being fair and in being well equipped with all the facts.

Edited April 22, 2016 by madmaverick

[Emma]

I wish she'd do a final interview looking back over her time playing Beckett and her feelings on the role and what's she taken away from it as an actress, what her favourite moments were (I know she's sort of done that on twitter but I'd prefer it done properly), things she wanted to happen that didn't etc. I doubt I'll get anything though, looks like fans will have to be content with her tweets and photos.  

  

Me too. I'd love some final thoughts from her. But I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to look back either.

The ratings this year will help determine the advertising money next year if the show is called "Castle," so I'm sure both ABC and Nathan care about the ratings from here on to the end of the season.  And I think Stana cares as well for the sake of her future...although maybe a huge drop in ratings after the announcement about her leaving would be good for marketing how popular she is....although I think Castle has hit bottom, so it can't fall much further.

The ratings are poor now. That's not stopping them moving forward. They seem desperate to keep this one going so I don't think a lower advertising fee is scaring them off.

If Stana's career is hanging on the ratings of these last episodes she might as well pack it in. If she cared, if she was proud of the ending, if she feared her future, she'd probably be telling fans to tune in until the end. She's been mute about it thus far.

[statsgirl]

Stana Katic has always done indie films for love rather than money. I can see her with an indie career or moving into directing rather than competing with the zillions of 35+ actresses in Hollywood.

 

ABC seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel in what they're renewing.  Quantico took a nosedive in the winter and still got renewed.

Well those were boring. And Beckett-less. The chemistry is all off with just Castle and the boys/Lanie. But ABC is obviously trying to highlight their new version of the show.

Yeah.  Entirely separate from whether Castle can move on from Beckett's death is the question of whether the show would be watchable without their interactions.

 

For me, it's no. But millions of people tune in to the NCISs and other CBS procedurals which are just as lacking in chemistry as those clips so maybe they can make a show of it.

[verdana]

I'm still not sure about Nathan being 100% the villain, though.

I had to stop reading after a page or so it was exhausting the level of vitriol and it was all one way traffic, that Castle tag on there has had some action over the last few days lol. 

 

Nathan must have developed a tough skin after all his years in the business. I'm sure he'll survive.  

[Julia]

Does the leak really hurt though? ABC probably doesn't care about the ratings this late in the game. They're planning a reboot and are probably hoping Beckett/Stana fans bolt.

 

You know, I'll be really interested in seeing if it shakes out that way. You'd think after Stargate Atlantis and Person of Interest and now Sleepy Hollow showrunners would realize that retooling their show for fans they like better isn't a safe bet.

[madmaverick]

I'm still just sad about how this is impacting everyone.  Sad for the fans who won't get the happy ending they had every right to expect and deserved.  Sad for Stana for being out of a job and leaving the show in this way, though I'm sure she'll be fine going forward.  Sad for Nathan that he's being subjected to all this hate and vitriol where it's by no means clear that he even had anything to do with this decision to not re-sign Stana.  Even a bit sad for Marlowe that the show he created can't end on the terms he envisaged, but at the same time, he would have known anything was possible when he left, and he also contributed a lot to the show's creative decline.  All these people have made millions out of Castle, so I probably shouldn't feel too sad for them. ;)

[verdana]

No Caskett baby either.....tumblr will go into deep mourning, bloggers will have to satisfy themselves with fanfic and manips. 

 

Falling in love with a TV show and caring about the characters should carry an official health warning, it will all end in tears and recriminations in the end watch out! Sigh

[statsgirl]

Weren't they supposed to have four kids according to that guy from the future?  *so sad*

[TWP]

Entirely separate from whether Castle can move on from Beckett's death is the question of whether the show would be watchable without their interactions.

 

For me, it's no. But millions of people tune in to the NCISs and other CBS procedurals which are just as lacking in chemistry as those clips so maybe they can make a show of it.

 

I suspect Castle might be a teachable example about "chemistry".  Intense chemistry turns people hot and cold about your show.  A more even keeled approach lessens the love-hate passion from the fans.  I think shows like NCIS have been so popular because they're decent, but passive entertainment.  People don't develop strong emotions about the shows and thus don't have extreme reactions when things don't go the right way.

 

In order for Castle Season 9 to be watcheable, energy and money has to be funneled into good character building and good plot lines.  I suspect the boring sneak peaks reflect a show that thought it was done in 4 more episodes.

 

I don't think Nathan is a villain.  I've never liked the guy from what I've seen, but I definitely believe that he deserves to carve out the niche in life that he wants.  Would  Stana have been blamed this way by the internet if Nathan had been the one cut? 

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[oberon55]

I'm still just sad about how this is impacting everyone.  Sad for the fans who won't get the happy ending they had every right to expect and deserved.  Sad for Stana for being out of a job and leaving the show in this way, though I'm sure she'll be fine going forward.  Sad for Nathan that he's being subjected to all this hate and vitriol where it's by no means clear that he even had anything to do with this decision to not re-sign Stana.  Even a bit sad for Marlowe that the show he created can't end on the terms he envisaged, but at the same time, he would have known anything was possible when he left, and he also contributed a lot to the show's creative decline.  All these people have made millions out of Castle, so I probably shouldn't feel too sad for them. ;)

I don't really feel that sorry for any of them. They all made more money in 8 years than most of us will in a lifetime. What I find sad is how a show I really liked was destroyed. Depending on how they handle Beckett's departure I may not even be able to enjoy rewatching the earlier seasons that I liked so much. Ultimately I hold the people in charge responsible (not the actors or writers who are when all is said and done employees with a boss). So I say shame on them for letting this happen.

[pepper]

 

 

I thought that was a joke or an accident not purposeful, but whatever.

Mileage varies on people's sense of humour but it's not a crime in my book.

 

People are vegetarian for a variety of reasons. I chose it 20 years ago for ethical reasons. If someone "accidentally" puts dead pig in my food, I'd expect them to give me the choice not to eat it. I don't judge other people for their choices, (people who have known me for years don't know I'm vegetarian unless they're planning to feed me) so I'm not melodramatic enough to say an actor is "dead to me" for revealing something like that about himself. But the equivalent for a North American meat-eater would be someone feeding you a burger made from dog meat and finding it funny that you didn't know. Imagine how your stomach would lurch at the knowledge of what you'd eaten. Would that be dismissed as simply his sense of humor?

[MaryM47]

Would  Stana have been blamed this way by the internet if Nathan had been the one cut?

 

 

 

Wouldn't that be an interesting flip on this situation. Kelly Ripa is being painted as a massive diva based on her actions after hearing about Strahan's abrupt exit and I'm guessing Stana would get the same reaction from many. This is from the nymag.com article that I think someone linked to above about the press's and internet's take on Ripa:

 

Ripa committed the cardinal sin of "being angry while female," a misstep that puts perpetrators at risk of being called shrill, bitchy, crazy, high-maintenance, ruthless, ambitious (if you're running for president), or, yes, a diva.

 

 

If it was NF leaving, whether by choice or by studio fiat, I bet any comments made by SK would be parsed by many in a similar fashion, no matter how reasonable a response she gave, just as NF's are being parsed. But just as men are "assertive" while women are "aggressive," I bet comments about her would be rife with misogyny. 

[MaryM47]

I may not even be able to enjoy rewatching the earlier seasons that I liked so much.

 

After the writers of How I Met Your Mother burned it all to the ground in the finale, I could not bring myself to watch the syndicated reruns, despite having loved the show for years, and often playing the reruns in the background while I putzed around the house.  And while I used to religiously watch the Castle reruns the same way, I haven't been to TNT for many months, because this last season had soured me on the show.  But the day the news came out about SK, I found myself going back, to recapture the spark and joy that drew me to this show from episode 1. No idea why I reacted so differently to 2 shows that I have loved and lost, but I am actually looking forward to going back down the rabbit hole of seasons 1-4, and select episodes thereafter.  I think that the declining quality of Castle has weaned me off of it, for lack of a better term, so I'm not as invested as I was at the end of HIMYM, and can go back to the beginning without all the baggage. 

[Emma]

Would Stana have been blamed this way by the internet if Nathan had been the one cut?

I love Beckett but I'd be flipping tables too. The show should end. I'm a broken record, I don't like any scenario where one is rewarded and the other discarded.

I didn't fall in love with this show because it was Castle or Beckett. It was because of them both. Watching them dance around each other, the banter, the push-pull, falling in love, becoming a better person because of the other, walls coming down, creating a team a worth rooting for.

It wasn't original or groundbreaking or without warts but the two of them on this crazy journey was it for me. It was enough.

They've straight up wrecked a good thing here. I just can't comprehend it. There's no way to spin this and make it better for me.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Emma

[madmaverick]

People are vegetarian for a variety of reasons. I chose it 20 years ago for ethical reasons. If someone "accidentally" puts dead pig in my food, I'd expect them to give me the choice not to eat it. I don't judge other people for their choices, (people who have known me for years don't know I'm vegetarian unless they're planning to feed me) so I'm not melodramatic enough to say an actor is "dead to me" for revealing something like that about himself. But the equivalent for a North American meat-eater would be someone feeding you a burger made from dog meat and finding it funny that you didn't know. Imagine how your stomach would lurch at the knowledge of what you'd eaten. Would that be dismissed as simply his sense of humor?

I have vegetarian friends and I do understand how eating meat by mistake would be upsetting for them.  Honestly, I only vaguely recall this story told by Nathan on some talk show long ago about a barbeque with friends where he accidentally grilled vegetables over drippings from previously grilled meat or something like that.  I don't think it was something that he did on purpose.  It was just an "oops" story he told to entertain on a talk show of many oops stories.  Maybe it was exaggerated.  Maybe he apologised to his friends straight away, maybe he didn't tell.. There was no further context to the story.  It's your right to take offence; I just don't take a story said on a talk show too seriously and assess character based on that.  Living in L.A., he probably has lots of vegetarian friends, including the Devers, and there's never been anything to indicate he's disrespectful of that. But YMMV.  

 

ETA: I agree character shows when no one's watching and in that respect, from what third parties have said over the years, I've not read a negative report about either Nathan or Stana, only good things, which is one reason why I'm not getting on any bashing train.  And why I feel it's unfair that some people would rather believe tabloids over words of people who saw first hand their good behaviour, kindness and generosity.

Edited April 22, 2016 by madmaverick

[BlakesMomma]

I have vegetarian friends and I do understand how eating meat by mistake would be upsetting for them.  Honestly, I only vaguely recall this story told by Nathan on some talk show long ago about a barbeque with friends where he accidentally grilled vegetables over drippings from previously grilled meat or something like that.  I don't think it was something that he did on purpose.  It was just an "oops" story he told to entertain on a talk show of many oops stories.  Maybe it was exaggerated.  Maybe he apologised to his friends straight away, maybe he didn't tell.. There was no further context to the story.  It's your right to take offence; I just don't take a story said on a talk show too seriously and assess character based on that.  Living in L.A., he probably has lots of vegetarian friends, including the Devers, and there's never been anything to indicate he's disrespectful of that. But YMMV.  

 

ETA: I agree character shows when no one's watching and in that respect, from what third parties have said over the years, I've not read a negative report about either Nathan or Stana, only good things, which is one reason why I'm not getting on any bashing train.  And why I feel it's unfair that some people would rather believe tabloids over words of people who saw first hand their good behaviour, kindness and generosity.

 

BaenardinVerified account ‏@marcbernardin  Apr 13

If character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you, then @NathanFillion has it in spades. Good to see you, Captain, as always.

 

[VinceW]

No Caskett baby either.....tumblr will go into deep mourning, bloggers will have to satisfy themselves with fanfic and manips. 

 

Falling in love with a TV show and caring about the characters should carry an official health warning, it will all end in tears and recriminations in the end watch out! Sigh

So True. After the engagement, Marlowe kept on with the baby teasers in order to keep fans on board for as long as he could, but he never was going there. Hard to imagine watching back in season 5 that the series would end this way. I just deleted all of the Season 5 thru Season 7 videos I had stored on my Amazon video library account to give me closure. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by VinceW

[TWP]

Haw - Winters also were quick to say no babies. Not a surprise....although if the reboot involves wrapping up the Casket story with the alternate finale, babies could be involved in this Season/Series finale. Maybe Beckett was all a fiction.

My impression about Nathan and Stana have nothing to do with tabloid and everything to do with watching footage of them at cons and on interview shows.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[CheshireCat]

KaveDweller, on 21 Apr 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

Regarding moving on, I know someone who lost their husband of 30 years, and was married again a year later. Her (adult) children were super pissed at her, but she's the kind of person who can't be alone. However, I know someone else who lost their husband and 10 years later still hasn't dated anyone else. Everyone deals with that kind of thing differently. I think we'll get a year or two time jump, but not see Castle dating anyone else right away. Or woman will hit on him and he'll be all shallow about it because he's now put up walls of his own. Urgh.

 

Don't know if we see Castle dating but if Beckett dies then everyone who keeps watching is aware of it and would be aware of what it should have done to Castle. The way he was portrayed was that he can't live without her and that he'd do everything for her. Hell, that guy stood with Beckett as she stood on a bomb and he would have died with her that day had he not been able to disarm the bomb. That is someone who will need scenes when he remembers her. Which I doubt the show has plans to do because who would want to see that? That would give the show a heavy touch that it would have anyway for anyone who's not a casual fan. We all know that someone's missing, that someone who should be there isn't there anymore whatever the reason may be (and if Beckett were to leave Castle then it would be completely unrealistic if he accepted that after how he behaved in S8)

 

verdana, on 22 Apr 2016 - 03:45 AM, said:

 

What's sad is that they'll probably end up ruining MilMar's legacy and incurring the eternal wrath of the majority of the fanbase as they struggle to keep the show going somehow and as others have stated is it going to be all worth it?   I'd love to know how MilMar feel right now watching this unfold. 

 

Yes and no. I have a hard time imagining they're feeling much different from how we feel. What would frustrate me is that they didn't create a show about Castle, they created a show about Beckett and Castle and their journey, they created their story and TPTB are just ignoring that and are making it something that it never was. Marlowe is still listed as creator - I think I'd ask ABC to remove that for a season 9 because that is not the show he created or ever intended to create.

And I think they will destroy their legacy unless they decide to give Castle and Beckett the happy ending and move on from there come S9, if that is possible. But any ending other than a happy ending will tarnish the earlier seasons because with each re-watch of an earlier episode we will know how this love story ends. We know that the effort, all the obstacles they had to overcome, that everything they fought for, everything they did, wasn't enough in the end. After all that, they still did not get their happily ever after. And that kind of sends the message that yes, you can hope and be optimistic, but in the end, life is going to f... you anyway. And that is why I feel, unless there's a happy ending, MilMar's legacy is ruined anyway.

 

 

TWP, on 22 Apr 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

 

Both of the real life examples I gave were loves of the lives. One couple had met in GRADE school, started dating junior high, got married after college, we're married for 20 years and he had sudden cardiac arrest. The other was married for 43 years. When the couple encountered severe financial troubles, he killed himself to free up his life insurance money and save her the indignancy of bankruptcy. These were true love stories, but as anyone in similar situations will tell you, people have to move on. It's probably mostly only in movies that people never manage to find love again. With real humans, the loneliness becomes too great a burden. We humans are tribal. I don't think it's unrealistic at all to do a 3-5 year time jump to moving on.

 

Yes, but Castle isn't real. A show like Castle, which I consider a modern day fairy tale, is supposed to end happily because real life doesn't. My granddad just lost his wife of 57 years, the woman he's known for 59 years. They certainly were each other's love of their life but right now, I have a hard time considering it to be a happy ending or that any love story ever results in a happy ending because the majority of the time one partner always dies first and one gets left behind with the sorrow and pain and grief. 57 years or not, their story ended in tragedy (and it ended under tragic circumstances). That's where fairy tales are different because the characters are supposed to live happily ever after. They're supposed to live happily ever after forever (in our minds). They're not supposed to suffer. They're supposed to overcome obstacles and give hope that once the obstacles are overcome, there's the reward.

I don't think Castle was ever supposed to be real, it was supposed to be hopeful and magical and now it has become real and what it was, what it stood for, is gone.

Edited April 22, 2016 by CheshireCat

[BellyLaughter]

Don't know if we see Castle dating but if Beckett dies then everyone who keeps watching is aware of it and would be aware of what it should have done to Castle. The way he was portrayed was that he can't live without her and that he'd do everything for her. Hell, that guy stood with Beckett as she stood on a bomb and he would have died with her that day had he not been able to disarm the bomb. That is someone who will need scenes when he remembers her. Which I doubt the show has plans to do because who would want to see that? That would give the show a heavy touch that it would have anyway for anyone who's not a casual fan. We all know that someone's missing, that someone who should be there isn't there anymore whatever the reason may be (and if Beckett were to leave Castle then it would be completely unrealistic if he accepted that after how he behaved in S8)

Yes and no. I have a hard time imagining they're feeling much different from how we feel. What would frustrate me is that they didn't create a show about Castle, they created a show about Beckett and Castle and their journey, they created their story and TPTB are just ignoring that and are making it something that it never was. Marlowe is still listed as creator - I think I'd ask ABC to remove that for a season 9 because that is not the show he created or ever intended to create.

And I think they will destroy their legacy unless they decide to give Castle and Beckett the happy ending and move on from there come S9, if that is possible. But any ending other than a happy ending will tarnish the earlier seasons because with each re-watch of an earlier episode we will know how this love story ends. We know that the effort, all the obstacles they had to overcome, that everything they fought for, everything they did, wasn't enough in the end. After all that, they still did not get their happily ever after. And that kind of sends the message that yes, you can hope and be optimistic, but in the end, life is going to f... you anyway. And that is why I feel, unless there's a happy ending, MilMar's legacy is ruined anyway.

Yes, but Castle isn't real. A show like Castle, which I consider a modern day fairy tale, is supposed to end happily because real life doesn't. My granddad just lost his wife of 57 years, the woman he's known for 59 years. They certainly were each other's love of their life but right now, I have a hard time considering it to be a happy ending or that any love story ever results in a happy ending because the majority of the time one partner always dies first and one gets left behind with the sorrow and pain and grief. 57 years or not, their story ended in tragedy (and it ended under tragic circumstances). That's where fairy tales are different because the characters are supposed to live happily ever after. They're supposed to live happily ever after forever (in our minds). They're not supposed to suffer. They're supposed to overcome obstacles and give hope that once the obstacles are overcome, there's the reward.

I don't think Castle was ever supposed to be real, it was supposed to be hopeful and magical and now it has become real and what it was, what it stood for, is gone.

^^^^ All of this ^^^^

[WendyCR72]

The thing is, everyone can sit and do the shoulda, woulda, couldas, but in the end, nothing changes. If ABC wants this to go on, it will, be it with a new audience, existing audience who watched as a diversion and not for the romance...or ABC axes it.

 

But considering negotiations with NF are allegedly ongoing, it's pretty clear ABC feels this is worth the risk, for whatever reason.

[Not-A-Mused]

Wow, this is all so mind-boggling. And very, very sad. I'm sure the guy has his faults (as do we all), but it's hard to believe that after over 20 years in the business, this is the first we hear of big bad Nathan Fillion. Even harder is wrapping my head around the fact that some guy considered what, a "B" or "C"-list celebrity at best, has the power to get Stana fired and also have ABC be willing to take the fall for it? Um, okay. There are like umpteen people in charge of the show when you add in the show runners, executive producers, producers, etc. and Nathan is so powerful he convinced ALL of them and the bigwigs at the network to get rid of Stana and completely redo a floundering show so he can be the only star? And what about poor Tamala? Was she thrown under the bus just for the hell of it? I say if the dude has that much juice he was stupid not to use it in a more beneficial way. He should've told the network he was done with Castle when his original contract was up, and demanded Disney create a new Marvel or Star Wars movie for him to star in. That kind of stuff is more his shtick anyway.

[TWP]

I wasn't saying that Castle is real, only that even in the case of real-world true love people can very realistically move on from widow-hood in a few years so any time jump wouldn't have to be long. Love of your life doesn't mean that you never love on any level again. It's doable. Thus, in the phony, escapist world of TV, it's even more doable.

I hope that they wrap Casket up as a story, and then move on, if they must, to a Castle-centric procedural or whatever. Of course, this would entail revealing that the whole 8 seasons were a dream or book notes or something like that. Although cliche, it would be better for DVD sales and syndication ratings than killing Beckett off.

Please don't kill Beckett off. That's all I ask.

I found it interesting that appeared the costars were finished shooting several days before the body doubles finished. I'll be looking for the reason why that happened. Maybe it will be obvious.

Not-a-Mused, you are so right! If Nathan is all powerful, why didn't he get a Firefly reboot or something far more within his favored genre.

My SO proposed that someone will get killed off, but it will be Beckett's identical twin and Beckett will actually be back next year, but after plastic surgery (replacement actress) and a stint in the witness protection program.

Edited April 22, 2016 by TWP

[GoGiants]

Falling in love with a TV show and caring about the characters should carry an official health warning, it will all end in tears and recriminations in the end watch out! Sigh

Yes, a thousand times yes! I have never fallen for a show before like I have with Castle. It's been a tricky year or two for me and the modern day fairy tale/romance addition to the usual COTW/procedural format was a pleasant escape.

I've enjoyed this board and for the most part the show up until S8, but I can't envision letting myself fall for a show like this again.

Just unfortunate that my recent interest in the show had to coincide with its complete implosion.

Edited April 22, 2016 by GoGiants

[Hipshooter]

Must have forgotten "For Better or Worse" and "The Time of Our Lives"

 

No MilMar  love from this fan.

 

TEM saying "Respect the process people"  want to puke every time I think of her.

 

 

 

 

No Caskett ....................No Castle !!! Period

 

 

Looks like I'm having anger issues here.   Well .................I've  EARNED them.

[Kromm]

Gotta love People online. "Beckett's still here! Catch one of Stana Katic's final appearances."

Wonder if Stana leaked that too?

I think the boys return. I can see them working for Castle PI enjoying all those perks and high life. Whooping it up in LA. None of that pesky code of the 12th or other guidelines holding them back now.

Yeah, think about it. They were allegedly cutting costs. So what happens?  The two chicks (who I suppose were only making 78 cents on the dollar anyway) got cut. Would they cut the boys after that? Of course not!

No Caskett ....................No Castle !!! Period

 

 

Looks like I'm having anger issues here.   Well .................I've  EARNED them.

Ehem. Put the show IN a Casket(t). No... seriously!

[GoGiants]

After the writers of How I Met Your Mother burned it all to the ground in the finale, I could not bring myself to watch the syndicated reruns, despite having loved the show for years, and often playing the reruns in the background while I putzed around the house. And while I used to religiously watch the Castle reruns the same way, I haven't been to TNT for many months, because this last season had soured me on the show. But the day the news came out about SK, I found myself going back, to recapture the spark and joy that drew me to this show from episode 1. No idea why I reacted so differently to 2 shows that I have loved and lost, but I am actually looking forward to going back down the rabbit hole of seasons 1-4, and select episodes thereafter. I think that the declining quality of Castle has weaned me off of it, for lack of a better term, so I'm not as invested as I was at the end of HIMYM, and can go back to the beginning without all the baggage.

I think you are onto something. Your description of how you watch HIMYM mirrors my Castle watching habits (minus the years of watching for me with Castle).

For me any version of Castle without the happy ending poisons it all for me. And it will certainly prevent me from watching reruns etc. Despite the breakup and decline of recent seasons, my late comer/binge watching ways kept me invested and protected me from 7 seasons of annoyances. I was hanging on through S8 for the happy ending that is now likely out of reach.

I have had other shows that I cared about go off the rails and it didn't bug me to the degree Castle has. So it definitely comes down to level of investment, I suppose. I was too far into this show not to be upset by Castle going down in a cloud of gossip and without one of its leads. Only hope for me is if they decide to cancel and give it a proper end. But the wind does not seem to be blowing that way.

Edited April 23, 2016 by GoGiants

[Kromm]

I think the general feeling is a "why can't they let us have nice things?" one. It seems inevitable that (and ABC is worse than most) they have to run shows into the ground--well beyond any logical sell-by-date--and won't even contemplate ending them on a high unless the producers have some agreement in place already to do so. 

 

It's more mysterious though because isn't Castle an ABC production?  And unlike most shows these days, in theory it had great syndication prospects, because it fits into that mold of old detective shows that play endlessly on certain cable channels. I wonder if a really shit ending interferes with that or not?  Probably not, I guess, which is why they're just doing whatever they "need" to not have Fillion walk (which I'm sure he threatened to do). 

[BellyLaughter]

I think you are onto something. Your description of how you watch HIMYM mirrors my Castle watching habits.

For me any version of Castle without the happy ending poisons it all for me. And it will certainly prevent me from watching reruns etc. Despite the breakup and decline of recent seasons, my late comer/binge watching ways kept me invested and protected me from 7 seasons of annoyances. I was hanging on through S8 for the happy ending that is now likely out of reach.

I have had other shows that I cared about go off the rails and it didn't bug me to the degree Castle has. So it definitely comes down to level of investment, I suppose. I was too far into this show not to be upset by Castle going down in a cloud of gossip and without one of its leads. Only hope for me is if they decide to to cancel and give it a proper end. But the wind does not seem to be blowing that way.

That's the worst part in all this mess -- the toxic cloud of doubt that has been cast over this show has tainted all that has come before for me. I was desperately clinging to hope that the show could end after this season and my love for the early seasons would still be burning -- but now it's gone. Even if the slim chance it gets cancelled happens the legacy is coloured the wrong way.

And to think when I started to really invest in this show in season 3 I thought I was watching a really lovely, heartfelt procedural with a fun, humble cast that was "safe" which seemed like a good change after being burned by the insanity of Gilmore Girls circa S6 and 7. How dumb was I.

Birds of a feather flock together....especially in Hollywood. As long as there's a buck to be made.....

[Hipshooter]

Really doesn't matter one way or the other what NF does. I think the fan base has had it with the BS writing and wimpy ass show runners.

NF can take Funky Firefly and his cronies and  go  away. This ship has sunk.

 

All the best to Stana Katic for giving many great years of  talent to this show.

[GoGiants]

That's the worst part in all this mess -- the toxic cloud of doubt that has been cast over this show has tainted all that has come before for me. I was desperately clinging to hope that the show could end after this season and my love for the early seasons would still be burning -- but now it's gone. Even if the slim chance it gets cancelled happens the legacy is coloured the wrong way.

And to think when I started to really invest in this show in season 3 I thought I was watching a really lovely, heartfelt procedural with a fun, humble cast that was "safe" which seemed like a good change after being burned by the insanity of Gilmore Girls circa S6 and 7. How dumb was I.

I have never been that interested in the real lives of the actors, producers, creators etc of the TV and I movies I watch. I love getting pulled in to the stories and characters and the world created by whatever show I may be watching.

When I started watching early last year and after finding this board, I read the usual rumors about the BTS tensions and just brushed it aside. I figured it was what it was and as long as the show was unaffected I didn't care. If they had wrapped up without this mess, that's all I ever would have thought about it. But I am with you, even in the unlikely event they cancel, the melt down of S8 combined with this weeks events leaves a bad taste. If cancellation/the happy end happens, I think a nice long break from it and I may enjoy it again in reruns etc. but I think it would take some time.

I agree about thinking Castle was a "safe" show. It was built to have that happy ending. I think that is why I let myself invest in it to the extent I did.

Feel for you on the Gilmore Girls. I never watched bc I heard from a friend about the insanity of the later years. Sounds like I made the right choice!

Edited April 23, 2016 by GoGiants

[BellyLaughter]

I have never been that interested in the real lives of the actors, producers, creators etc of the TV and I movies I watch. I get pulled in to the stories and characters and the world created by whatever show I may be watching.

When I started watching early last year and after finding this board, I read the usual rumors about the BTS tensions and just brushed it aside. I figured it was what it was and as long as the show was unaffected I didn't care. If they had wrapped up without this mess, that's all I ever would have thought about it. But I am with you, even in the unlikely event they cancel, the melt down of S8 combined with this weeks events leaves a bad taste. If cancellation/the happy end happens, I think a nice long break from it and I may enjoy it again in reruns etc. but I think it would take some time.

I agree about thinking Castle was a "safe" show. It was built to have that happy ending. I think that is why I let myself invest in it to the extent I did.

Feel for you on the Gilmore Girls. I never watched bc I heard from a friend about the insanity of the later years. Sounds like I made the right choice!

 

100% the right choice -- it was painful.  It was more of what we are going through now.  Network and creatives apparently not giving 2 flying rats bums about what the fans love and cherish about the show!

Edited April 23, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[FlickerToAFlame]

Nathan seems back to his old snarky self on Twitter and Stana has been posting on Facebook, mostly quotes of support from friends like Terri and Sasha Alexander. I wonder if she feels like she has to defend her character in this mess.

[statsgirl]

I don't think Nathan is a villain.  I've never liked the guy from what I've seen, but I definitely believe that he deserves to carve out the niche in life that he wants.  Would  Stana have been blamed this way by the internet if Nathan had been the one cut? 

I think she would have been tarred, feathered and burned at the stake.  In cases of conflict, women always get attacked worse.

 

I'm pretty sure ABC thinks they can run the show on the charm of NF but looking at those sneak peeks from the next episode, to me he comes off as sleazy rather than charming. If ABC thinks Castle is going to be able to date numerous women after Beckett's death, even with a time jump, it feels like it's going to go badly wrong.

[CheshireCat]

TWP, on 22 Apr 2016 - 7:04 PM, said:

 

I wasn't saying that Castle is real, only that even in the case of real-world true love people can very realistically move on from widow-hood in a few years so any time jump wouldn't have to be long. Love of your life doesn't mean that you never love on any level again. It's doable. Thus, in the phony, escapist world of TV, it's even more doable.

 

 

Sure it's all possible and doable. I wasn't talking about possibility or doablity though. I was talking about what the show stands for/stood for, how the characters and their story was portrayed and that that seems to be ignored now by whoever is calling the shots and what an unhappy end to the Castle and Beckett story would mean in regards to that/that an unhappy end would ruin what it stands for/stood for/seems to have been created for.

 

I actually think that if Beckett dies/leaves, the most plausible/realistic Castle (in terms of how his character was written) would be to have him revert back to a playboy. Either that or no dating/romantic partner. Playboy would make sense because he was portrayed as being a playboy because of the "no strings attached" and because there are no risks and his heart is protected. And I think no dating/romantic partner is self-explanatory.

Edited April 23, 2016 by CheshireCat

[caseylane]

I'm a fan of NF and have only heard good things about him since I saw him first in Firefly. Saying that, I watch for the Casket so I'm out. I already got gutted from Sleepy Hollow so I don't think I even want to watch the finale.

[turnitwayup]

100% the right choice -- it was painful.  It was more of what we are going through now.  Network and creatives apparently not giving 2 flying rats bums about what the fans love and cherish about the show!

 

Yep GG had all kinds of wtf those last 2 seasons. Haven't had any desire to rewatch but will watch the 4 revival eps. It seems like every show I've really invest into ends up with some kind of bts disaster. TWW was more budget/script on time issues especially with Sorkin in charge seasons then later with dividing up the huge cast into certain eps cause it was too expensive to have everyone in the same ep. Almost every alive character got a happy ending and their series finale felt hopeful. Duchovny checked out the last 2 seasons of TXF, but at least Mulder and Scully were together on the series finale, 2nd movie and the actors are in a better place together in s10 so it ended up being much enjoyable to watch than expected. Still storyline issues but everyone seems on board to continue mini seasons when free schedules. Alias seemed to have bts dating drama surrounding Jennifer Garner. Started the show married to Foley, dated Vartan and end up with Affleck by the end of the show's run. It seemed to affect s5 Vaughn storyline since Vartan wasn't in every ep. Now Castle has fallen into bts drama that affects the storylines. It's coming out with worse PR wise when you add the Kelly & Michael drama plus all the women that were killed off various shows the past few weeks.

[Kromm]

I don't think Nathan is a villain.  I've never liked the guy from what I've seen, but I definitely believe that he deserves to carve out the niche in life that he wants.  Would  Stana have been blamed this way by the internet if Nathan had been the one cut? 

You're asking if a woman might be blamed by the Internet?  REALLY?  Go see... every other time.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm curious to see how they plan to spin a reboot as a super fun Castle PI story when they just killed off a major part of the story. How can you buy that the writers would keep it fun and light when the audience knows that they can and will kill off the fun and remove the happy ending?

 

I watched this show about Castle following around a female cop as his muse. Castle may be the title character, but this show was about the Castle/Beckett dynamic and that's what made it fun and interesting. The occasional episode with minimal Beckett/Castle interaction is fine, but the heart of the show was those two characters. Without Beckett, it's just not Castle. I've been a casual viewer more recently, but I definitely won't be watching the remainder of this season or anything in the future.

[sugarrush]

No matter what really happened and who's to blame, the bottom line is that the entire show will be tainted. No one will wanna watch Castle and Beckett's first meeting again, no one will wanna watch their first kiss again. What's the point, knowing how it all ends?

 

I always appreciate when show runners say, "We don't wanna outstay our welcome, we wanna go out on top". That's when you know they care about their audience and what they've written. It's very clear that this isn't the case here. If they can still squeeze $2 out of this dead horse, they will. 

 

I'm disappointed about this and I've stopped watching before this season, so I can imagine how the die-hard fans must feel right now. 

 

Such a slap in the face.

 

Btw, there's a new "insider report" out there that's surprisingly detailed, but I don't wanna add fuel to the fire.

[BellyLaughter]

Is it the Dish article??

[sugarrush]

Yes. I've never heard of that site, to be honest.

[BellyLaughter]

I think it's more tabloid stuff - he said/she said. I'm guessing we will never know the whole story!