S01.E09: 9

[attica]

Whenever I'm tempted to think of actors' work as being cushy and pampered, I see a scene like Alison walking into the hard ocean surf. Wilson is evidently not wearing a wetsuit, and the water temp was probably in the low 60s when they filmed. Which is bone-chilling cold. It will kill you -- maybe not as fast as Leo DiCaprio in Titanic, but pretty fast. Then she gets smacked in the face by a wave, which means she probably has a mouthful of salt water. She has to keep her balance to stay in the frame, which ain't easy in heavy surf. Plus, who knows how many takes were required, with the camera operator following behind? And then how many takes in wet clothes in the parking lot? That's not a good day on set, no matter how many awards you get for it.

 

And why does Oscar have an apartment in the city when he was living in his own home on Montauk?

 

No, that took place on the island. She'd gotten off the train where she had her first encounter with the Little Anvil Boy, and went to a bar where Oscar had finished his investor meeting. Wherever they went to boink, it wasn't Manhattan. 

[Cirien]

I think she blames Cole for seemingly not grieving as much. And I think that some of her Grieve is guilt that she didn't take her son to the hospital.

[jrlr]

Secondary drowning.

TY!  When I went back and read I saw that posted - how horrible!

[Cirien]

It's not nice. I barely remember what it was like but my parents were terrified

[stillshimpy]

Much of Alison's behavior I would put down to self-loathing issues brought about by guilt for what happened to Gabriel.  

 

You know, I'm sure it would primarily suck to meet the person who is the love of your life, when you are already married to someone else.  However, that doesn't mean you should turn that self-jackass meter up to "exploding projectiles set to take out anyone in their path" , some of Alison and Noah's behavior is so cruel that I have to imagine that Noah also has self-loathing issues.  Conscious or unconscious, he's doing things that are so cruel to Helen, it has to be a form of punishment for everything he perceives as a failing in himself.  

 

As for the "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you" stuff....okay, but why does that translate into "I'm not IN love with you, so I will treat you as badly as someone I actively hate.  I couldn't figure out the worst time in the world to tell you I'm leaving, because you aren't maimed and bleeding after a terrible assault.  Ideally that's when I would have broken the news....but this will have to do because I am King of Total Shit Mountain....Huzzah!" 

 

Fuck off, Dude.  

 

Love that makes you destructive to those around you and yourself isn't a real love.  It's a drug that will completely destroy you.  

 

Alison in the shower with Helen's shampoo just weirded me out.  Alison knows she's going to just keep destroying everything in Helen's life, a person who has never actually done her harm other than looking upon her with contempt (Jesus, I wonder why, she's a stellar human being after all....giant.thundering.eye-roll), so she has to look for even smaller and pettier ways to try and inflict injury? 

 

Alison and Noah are both completely self-centered teens at this point.  

[Cirien]

If we're talking about being disparaging of Alison being a waitress well a lot of don't think highly of the service industry. It doesn't make them snobs.

[Constantinople]

I was glad that Max called Noah out on his perpetual adolescence. And again the infatuation stage (which Noah and Alison are still in) lasts for two years.....which is why Max was telling him to wait. But Noah of course doesn't listen. And that crack about therapy? STFU Noah

 

Didn't Noah say that Helen was his first girlfriend?  I think so, but I'm not sure.

 

That might explain why Noah thinks it's "twue wuv".  Because he's too ignorant to know any better, and too arrogant to listen to Max.  Which isn't to say that people who've had more than 1 girlfriend or boyfriend won't cheat, it's just that Noah doesn't have any perspective from first hand experience.

 

In any case, Noah came off as a total asshole

 

• Sleeping with Alison in his and Helen's bed
• Being "honest" with Helen, because he's just that kind of guy
• Thinking that waiting until Whitney goes to college makes it OK.  Apparently Noah forgot that he knows that Martin faked his own suicide and that Martin is having social problems at school  Noah aparrently forgot he has 2 other rather young children

Edited December 15, 2014 by Constantinople

[jrlr]

If we're talking about being disparaging of Alison being a waitress well a lot of don't think highly of the service industry. It doesn't make them snobs.

No, it makes them assholes.  I've always judged people by the way they treat waitstaff and the way they tip.  It doesn't matter if they are upscale snobs like Helen or scuzzy bikers, anyone who treats other people with contempt simply because of their "station" in life  is a schmuck.  IMO of course.

[Cirien]

True but being an asshole comes from all classes. Even the working class. Helens background doesn't have to come into it I've seen people make this connection. In order to support Noah and Allison

Edited December 15, 2014 by Cirien

[cardigirl]

I rather hate the word 'soulmate' as in there is only ONE other person in the world who can be your perfect match.  It's not true, and I think it demeans the idea of working for a relationship/family/history together.  In general most people feel they have met their 'soulmate' when they fall in love.  The infatuation stage, where partners look at each other through rose-colored glasses seems like a soulmate stage, and this is what most people consider love.  If they don't feel this way about another person, then they don't 'love' them.

 

I think loving someone and staying in a marriage is a choice.  We've been shown that Noah has a pretty good life, but he made a choice to bring Alison into his life. He wasn't suffering from grief, just narcissism.

 

And Alison clearly has feelings for Cole, but wants to escape the pain her history is giving her.  I have a smidge more sympathy for her, but she is also choosing to not make her own marriage better, to not fight for her marriage, but to shed her history and start over new. This she could do on her own, but I think she is looking for a soft landing.

 

Apart from a couple of conversations (in the hospital with her grandmother as an example) I've seen no REAL love portrayed between the two main characters.

[TexasGal]

Whitney was almost three months pregnant and...not showing at all? Really? The speed/ease with which she was ready to lie about the pregnancy actually amazed me a bit. 

 

It was amazing how she was so blase about being pregnant (at first anyway), but when Noah tried to take her laptop - you'll pull back a nub old man!!  For some reason that cracked me up.  Pretty realistic.

 

I was so grossed out by Noah bringing Allison into their home, their bedroom.  He just couldn't help compounding his douchebaggery.  I guess he truly didn't give a damn about his wife.

 

I was also grossed out by Allison having sex with Oscar.  What was that about?  Was she hoping that would transform her misery somehow instead of just adding to it? 

I thought Allison going after Oscar was (a) despair, (b) drunk, and © that feeling of, enough already, you're always hounding me about this, let's just get it over with so maybe you will shut the fuck up about it.

 

I am also suspicious that maybe Max and Helen are having an affair.  He has to know what Noah is like, and with both his pieces of advice (don't tell her, don't leave her) probably knew Noah would do the exact opposite.  Or maybe Max just crushes on Helen and hopes that with Noah out of the way he could have her. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by TexasGal

[stillshimpy]

No, it makes them assholes.  I've always judged people by the way they treat waitstaff and the way they tip.  It doesn't matter if they are upscale snobs like Helen or scuzzy bikers, anyone who treats other people with contempt simply because of their "station" in life  is a schmuck.  IMO of course.

 

My husband and I both waited tables in college and generally speaking you can always spot ex-servers by that criteria. We're super polite to waitstaff and basically over-tip....but I bring that up for a reason.  Although I'd love to believe it is just something born of our good hearts, it's most something that comes from empathy for people in service positions.  It's the same reason I try my hardest to never be short or unkind to anyone in customer service.  

 

That Helen doesn't possess that naturally speaks to her ability to empathize with people and apparently she doesn't possess a lot of empathy, because her dismissal of the importance of Alison as a person was -- in Noah's version at least -- almost instantaneous when she told Noah he didn't need to go back and leave a tip.  There isn't a former server alive who wouldn't full-body flinch over that.  

 

Helen is low on empathy, I will grant you that, but I was actually talking about her contempt for Alison after Noah told her about the affair.  Helen was very much focused -- if Noah is to be believed -- on the fact that Alison is a waitress as if that made her a lower form of life.  Personally, I think it's just as likely that Helen reacted to learning about an affair with Alison with such contempt because a person who starts an affair with a married man (or woman) is doing something that is worthy of of disdain, if not outright contempt.  

 

I agree that Helen has the empathetic failings of a person with too much lifelong privilege, but I don't actually fault her for disliking the person who her husband is screwing.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Cirien]

Stillshimpy I agree that Helen Objections were more about Alison screwing someone else's husband and her age.not about her being a waitress

[jeansheridan]

Regarding Alison being allegedly greedy she grew up poor. She didn't have money for college. I don't know how she paid for her grandmother's care. We see her work odd jobs all the time. She knows that money matters. So yeah, if she can get some from her husband, why not? She has helped him save the ranch. She ran drugs to help him. I'd say she earned it.

I had no idea the shampoo moment would seem so shocking. I assumed she just used a ton of it on her own head. We can't see her other hand can we? I assumed she just took a lot. Selfish but a bit like being in a hotel. People use more towels and water in a hotel. Plus Ruth Wilson does do flashes of malicious glee so well. I have been impressed how well she has suppressed her edginess.

Why is it worse for Helen to see a physic after a miscarriage than for Alison thanking her dead son for saving her at his grave? Clearly that mom and boy were a vision/message from her perspective.

[Cirien]

I think she's got both hands on the bottle. And she clearly checks out the price on the bottom

[jrlr]

My husband and I both waited tables in college and generally speaking you can always spot ex-servers by that criteria. We're super polite to waitstaff and basically over-tip....but I bring that up for a reason.  Although I'd love to believe it is just something born of our good hearts, it's most something that comes from empathy for people in service positions.  It's the same reason I try my hardest to never be short or unkind to anyone in customer service.  

 

That Helen doesn't possess that naturally speaks to her ability to empathize with people and apparently she doesn't possess a lot of empathy, because her dismissal of the importance of Alison as a person was -- in Noah's version at least -- almost instantaneous when she told Noah he didn't need to go back and leave a tip.  There isn't a former server alive who wouldn't full-body flinch over that.  

 

Helen is low on empathy, I will grant you that, but I was actually talking about her contempt for Alison after Noah told her about the affair.  Helen was very much focused -- if Noah is to be believed -- on the fact that Alison is a waitress as if that made her a lower form of life.  Personally, I think it's just as likely that Helen reacted to learning about an affair with Alison with such contempt because a person who starts an affair with a married man (or woman) is doing something that is worthy of of disdain, if not outright contempt.  

 

I agree that Helen has the empathetic failings of a person with too much lifelong privilege, but I don't actually fault her for disliking the person who her husband is screwing.  

Well I waited tables back in my college days in the bronze age, too - and I did do a full body-flinch at that. I was taught from the time I was a kid never to be rude or condescending to anyone,l and I think waitressing just reinforced that for me.  I don't really get Helen, although I grew up with enough privileged kids to believe her. I don't blame her a bit for hating Alison but I don't see her as particularly empathetic towards anyone.  I mean she's been worried as hell about Whitney, but she doesn't seem to ever actually talk to her daughter (granted Whitney is a huge pain in the ass, but still, it's her daughter) until after the pregnancy reveal.  I thought what Noah overheard her saying to Whitney about her own abortion was a sweet scene (in a show that doles out sweet scenes like they are precious gems).  And Maura Tierney really nailed it in the scene with Noah - her fury was so believable and SO justified. I'd love to see an episode from Helen's POV, because I think she sensed the chemistry between Noah and Alison waaaay before she learned about the affair. At this point I despise Noah so much that I hope he did kill Scotty, gets caught and goes to prison for it.  Of course, given the nature of this show, that could change - although I can't see my opinion of his character changing.  

[Cirien]

I dunno if she sensed the chemistry but she definitely saw Noah's reaction when Max was talking about how marriage was work

[Beebee111]

 

But yeah I think at least Oscar sees her as a person, and they have weirdly familial history, she really treats him like a brother almost.

THIS. Oscar is crass and can be vindictive, BUT he does care deeply for Allison in his own weird way. One of the best lines of this episode for me was Oscar's: "You're going back home to your husband . . . . what does that even mean to you?"

 

I find it hard to pass any kind of judgment on Helen yet, because I don't think we know that much about her yet. We have these narratives from Allison & Noah about how they see her, and it's all very superficial. I do hope the show eventually delves deeper into Cole/Helen's characters. Cole appears to be a sucker for punishment, that hasn't held his wife accountable for anything and keeps chasing after her like a wounded puppy dog.

 

The acting on this show is top notch - there are scenes that stir up such negative emotion - but I can't look away. I was so terribly uncomfortable watching Noah take Allison into his wife's home - either he hated his wife in that moment, or thought nothing of her - because it was so incredibly disrespectful.

 

I am also glad the plot is moving along rapidly. I can't wait to see what happens next.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Beebee111

[GeminiDancer]

 

THIS. Oscar is crass and can be vindictive, BUT he does care deeply for Allison in his own weird way. One of the best lines of this episode for me was Oscar's: "You're going back home to your husband . . . . what does that even mean to you?"

 

That was a really telling scene for me, that even he knows that Alison's is fucking up something major. He may not like the Lockharts, but I'd like to think that there's some sliver (a teeny tiny sliver) of respect for Cole. If he didn't, I'm sure Oscar would have told Cole that not only did she start the affair up again with Noah, she also fucked him, with the quickness.I hate that Alison is continuing to humiliate Cole the way that she has. I hate that Cole keeps begging for her to pick him, when it's clear that he can do and deserves better.

 

Side note: Did Noah and Alison really have anal sex? Noah's version of bed talk implied that.

Edited December 15, 2014 by GeminiDancer

[Guest Accused Dingo]

A middle aged man leaving his wife for a waitress is not exactly unique. In Hellen's defense she could be just pissed that her husband left her for one of the top three types of women horny middle aged men leave their wives for.....the other two are secretaries (which Noah doesn't have) and teaching assistant (How old are Noah's students?)

Edited December 15, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[KittyS]

I think the creators of this show are doing a terrible job showing why Noah and Alison are in love and why they are "soul mates." (Don't even get me started on that concept!) I have seen zero indications that these two have anything that suggests long-term relationship potential, let alone true love. I think we are gradually getting glimpses into Helen's and Cole's flaws, but I'm still not seeing why either Noah or Alison think they are getting a better partner than the one they already have.

Helen's using shampoo that costs $60 a bottle, along with her not realizing how crappy it is not to leave a tip for a waitress, especially one who just saved your daughter's life, presents a very unflattering picture of how she views people and money. Also that bit about the psychic was a total WTF for me. Otherwise, I find her to be a sympathetic character.

The Oscar character, with his alternating moments of horribleness and vulnerability, is far more interesting than either Noah or Cole. One minute he's all, "I blackmailed him for you!" and then he's all, "I made pancakes!" I'm surprised that he wasn't the murder victim on this show.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KittyS

[jeansheridan]

Cole is.clearly a man who doesn't know how to quit. The ranch, his marriage, even ranching is a bit old school. Being dumped thoroughly and ruthlessly will be good for him.

I am not surprised the show.runners love their characters. They should so they can write them with nuance and compassion. Even Oscar gets some love. I love how he subtlety admitted Cole was right to kick his ass. And how nonjudgemental he was about Alison still having an affair. And he gave he his truck no questions asked. He knows she is messed up and broken. He doesn't pretend. I like that.

[Muffyn]

Her skinniness was commented on in the pilot ep. That could be why. And isn't it the case that for some for first time pregnancies you don't really show until much later ?

I assume she wasn't eating to some extent to try to hide or stop what would have been weight gain from the pregnancy and she was throwing up a lot.  Of course, her parents only noticed that once.  I'm sure it was easier to hide at her grandparents.  They would have more bathrooms.  

 

If Noah and Alison did have anal sex, she lied to him about him being the first.  Earlier in the series she said she and Cole tried it once and she didn't like it.  So she is either lying to Noah about his incredible sexual abilities or was this in Noah's scene and he is remembering her as being so enamored of his ma skillz?  Just his whole demanding they do something she had never done with anyone else angered me.  He really has issues of needing to feel like he is all powerful and in control with her be completely enamored of him.  I cannot see what either woman sees in him beyond quick infatuation based on what Alison wants to see versus what is there and a long term marriage with four children that Helen does not want to throw away.  Although at this point Helen seems more than willing to toss the marriage and Noah right in the trash.  Of course if he does become successful after leaving Helen, he can tell himself that she was holding him back rather than acknowledging that she supported him for all those years, allowing him to be the selfish jackass that he is.  

[cardigirl]

Helen is low on empathy, I will grant you that, but I was actually talking about her contempt for Alison after Noah told her about the affair.  Helen was very much focused -- if Noah is to be believed -- on the fact that Alison is a waitress as if that made her a lower form of life.  Personally, I think it's just as likely that Helen reacted to learning about an affair with Alison with such contempt because a person who starts an affair with a married man (or woman) is doing something that is worthy of of disdain, if not outright contempt.

 

I also think that when someone has been in a long-term relationship and finds that they have a rival, they are always amazed at who that rival turns out to be.  Perhaps Helen was thinking, "I'm educated, earn a good living and love this guy, but I'm not good enough. SHE is, even without the education and income." 

Disdain for a 'waitress' is possibly a defense mechanism, at least partly.  She is trying to figure out where she failed and what this other woman has that she doesn't, and finding that it is not an affair with someone more educated, more wealthy, more accomplished surprises her.  And honestly, most women would think along those lines, I believe, regardless of how they treat waitstaff or customer service people. The comparison game would start and she has to be wondering "Why her?"

 

But she also has been shown to be dismissive of help.

 

As far as for a younger woman, there is not a wife alive who doesn't fear that, because age is not something you can change about yourself.

Edited December 15, 2014 by cardigirl

[Constantinople]

Whitney was almost three months pregnant and...not showing at all? Really? The speed/ease with which she was ready to lie about the pregnancy actually amazed me a bit.

 

 

Her skinniness was commented on in the pilot ep. That could be why. And isn't it the case that for some for first time pregnancies you don't really show until much later ?

 

Whitney didn't meet Scottie until the second or third episode.  Moreover, this episode takes place some time in December and the pilot episode took place sometime at the start of the summer.

[stillshimpy]

I also think that when someone has been in a long-term relationship and finds that they have a rival, they are always amazed at who that rival turns out to be.  Perhaps Helen was thinking, "I'm educated, earn a good living and love this guy, but I'm not good enough. SHE is, even without the education and income."

 

Fully agreed. Although I don't think the sting would be lessened if Noah was leaving her for a Super Model or Nobel Laureate of any description, it makes perfect emotional-sense that part of Helen's expressed disdain for Alison's position in life is "You're throwing away our married lives for ________ " and pretty much up to and only possibly excluding Helen of Troy, any person would a) express shock and amazement, as well as withering disdain that amounts to "for her/him??" b)  whereas no one really likes or admires snobs, it would be a rare, rare person who would not hate/disparage the person who is seen as the catalyst for ending a marriage of that duration.  

 

Beside, I kind of also get the sense that it's partially "For a waitress?" because it's sort of her dad's pattern on repeat.  That Bruce sought out people he would never be tempted into leaving his wife for in his own infidelities, I'm not sure though. 

 

Again, snobs suck, there's no doubt about that in my mind.  However, almost anyone with a pulse would look upon the person breaking up their marriage as being without class regardless of their professional station in life. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I don't buy Noah and Alison in love; I buy them in lust. They are both deeply unhappy people and and think running away from their lives and responsibilities will make them happy again. Allison I at least have some sympathy for. A dead child is not something you get over and I am not sure she was ever happy living in the Hamptons where everyone knows your business and she became the poor woman whose child died. As for Noah he has everything a man could want and he is miserable about it. I get the fact that he hates that Helen's parent pay for just about everything but he handles it like a child. Even when he gets his way he makes it seem like he is being put upon.

These two are not in love they are two teenagers acting out .

Edited December 15, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[gingerella]

Whoa. That was an episode filled with my expanding thought bubble thinking every 5 minutes, "no way. No way. No Way. NO Way. NO WAY!"  Jesus H. Christ, a whole lotta shit came down in one hour, huh?

 

I can't write more right now, but I wanted to say that at the end of the episode all I could think about was that it would be divine karma - and we all know the saying 'karma's a bitch' - if the kid Alison refers to in the future interrogation convos is a little ginger-haired Oscar progeny. What would be more karmic than for Alison - who was trying to have another child with Cole and presumably not using any BC with Noah either because you can't turn the Pill on and off like that - to finally, Finally, FINALLY have another child, but from the man whom she loathes most in life? That? Is karmic justice right there.  That would serve her right, to have to spend the rest of her life mothering a child from a man who literally repulses her. The ultimate price, having to love and look at every.single.day. the kid who reminds you of this repugnant piece of shit whom you both hate and are repulsed by.

 

As for Noah and Alison, I was for whatever reason, not hating them until last night, but when they fucked in Noah and Helen's bed? Fuck that shit folks. You are now on my TV shit list. That's about as low as two married people can get in the cheating realm, IMO.

[Ellaria]

I think the creators of this show are doing a terrible job showing why Noah and Alison are in love and why they are "soul mates." (Don't even get me started on that concept!) I have seen zero indications that these two have anything that suggests long-term relationship potential, let alone true love. I think we are gradually getting glimpses into Helen's and Cole's flaws, but I'm still not seeing why either Noah or Alison think they are getting a better partner than the one they already have.

 

And this statement is why I am having a problem with this show. I'm not feeling the love between them...at all. And, as a result, I am rooting against them.

 

Love that makes you destructive to those around you and yourself isn't a real love.  It's a drug that will completely destroy you.  

 

 

THIS...one thousand times.

 

Again, snobs suck, there's no doubt about that in my mind.  However, almost anyone with a pulse would look upon the person breaking up their marriage as being without class regardless of their professional station in life. 

 

Of course. Helen isn't perfect but her reaction is understandable and authentic. Hope we get to see Cole's reaction at the train station when Noah comes walking up to them.

 

Lots of interesting comments here about Noah and Alison. The events in last night's episode didn't generate oodles of sympathy for either of them. I assume that was the intent of the writers.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Ellaria Sand

[ChromaKelly]

Side note: Did Noah and Alison really have anal sex? Noah's version of bed talk implied that.

Is that their "have you ever done that?" conversation was about? My husband and I were wondering what they were talking about. It didn't seem like anal, but I guess?

[jrlr]

Alison is not uneducated, she was a pediatric nurse before Gabriel died.  She's waitressing because she can't bear to be around sick young children now, and that's understandable.  You have to be an R.N. to become a pediatric nurse and that can include some college and some hospital training, or a B.A. and training.  Who knows?  She may be as educated as Helen or Noah.

[Cirien]

Re:Alison and the shampoo bottle, JeanSheridan I understand the analogy but this isn't a hotel with tiny brand name shampoo. It's a family home and the shampoo belongs to the woman, whose husband Alison's been having an affair with.

 

And they've just fucked in the marriage bed. And I think that her squeezing shampoo out WAS a "fuck you" to Helen. A "Yes you're rich, educated and have your own store but your husband wants *me*"

Edited December 15, 2014 by Cirien

[bourbon]

I think the creators of this show are doing a terrible job showing why Noah and Alison are in love and why they are "soul mates." 

 

I'm not sure if we're supposed to think this is some grand romance between soulmates or it's two sad people knocking boots. If we're supposed to think it's one thing or the other, the show is doing a bad job of portraying that. Perhaps that's the point -- we're not *supposed* to fully understand why Alison and Noah can't get enough of each other, but it's very difficult to engage with characters whose motivations I can't really understand.

 

I never thought a show that was this well acted, that had such an interesting narrative device could as uninvolving as this show is for me. Part of it is, I think, that they are both so completely unsympathetic. It's not that I can't watch unsympathetic characters, I can -- Walter White comes to mind -- but I at least have to find them compelling in a "what will they do next" kind of way. I at least have to root for them on some level. I find Alison and Noah both so whiny, so self-centered, spoiled, and childish that I actively root against them. So much so that it might have killed my longstanding crush on Dominic West.

 

As for Helen telling Noah not to tip the waitress, I don't trust anything about Helen that comes from either Alison OR Noah's perspective. She could be Mother Teresa for all I know.

Edited December 15, 2014 by bourbon

[Cirien]

I'm not sure if we're supposed to think this is some grand romance between soulmates or it's two sad people knocking boots. If we're supposed to think it's one thing or the other, the show is doing a bad job of portraying that. Perhaps that's the point -- we're not *supposed* to fully understand why Alison and Noah can't get enough of each other, but it's very difficult to engage with characters whose motivations I can't really understand.

 

I never thought a show that was this well acted, that had such an interesting narrative device could as uninvolving as this show is for me. Part of it is, I think, that they are both so completely unsympathetic. It's not that I can't watch unsympathetic characters, I can -- Walter White comes to mind -- but I at least have to find them compelling in a "what will they do next" kind of way. I at least have to root for them on some level. I find Alison and Noah both so whiny, so self-centered, spoiled, and childish that I actively root against them. So much so that it might have killed my longstanding crush on Dominic West.

 

As for Helen telling Noah not to tip the waitress, I don't trust anything about Helen that comes from either Alison OR Noah's perspective. She could be Mother Teresa for all I know.

In  Sarah Streems own words, the series was origanly conceived as being about two people in happy(ish) marriages who meet and think that they could be happier with each other instead of their spouses. The implication being that Noah and Alison find (or think they've found) they've found their soulmate in each other. This coupled with Sarah's tweet about Cole and Helen, (which seemed to imply that people who found them sympathetic were watching the series *wrong*) then yeah I think the show wants us to root for Noah and Alison.

[Bcharmer]

Regarding the shampoo bottle. I laughed to myself when Alison looked at the bottom of the bottle and saw a price tag there. For one thing, if you buy shampoo at the salon (where I assume Helen got hers), you don't often see a price tag on the bottom, or anywhere on the bottle itself, for that matter. The price is usually displayed on the shelf in the salon. I suppose each salon is different, though.  I've also tried one of the Alterna shampoos in the past (if you have dry, naturally curly hair, you'll try just about anything if it claims to help with that), but at less than half that price, on the internet. Never a price tag. But mostly, it just seemed unrealistic because a price tag would not stay ON in the shower. It would get wet and slide off, or deteriorate into shreds, pretty quickly. Would Helen leave the tag on, anyway, even if it had one? I have a hard time thinking that she would. So, the whole thing just seemed silly to me, and a way to show how disrespectful Alison is. As if having sex with Noah in Helen's bed just didn't quite accomplish that enough.

[attica]

it just seemed unrealistic because a price tag would not stay ON in the shower

 

We can fanwank that the price was written on in sharpie, not affixed with a tag, can't we? If she bought it at a salon, they might not have the price tag affixer thingie.

 

Anyway, I think dumping the shampoo was Alison's "I drink your milkshake!" moment.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

Rigidly fixed in my pash on Helen / Maura Tierney, may I suggest that perhaps Helen never :

• said "Oh, that's OK.  You don't need to [tip the waitress who just saved our daughter's life]."  
• Or that she spat out (in discussing The Affair with Noah) "For a waitress."  
• Or that she said to Max, when he was ogling Alison, "You can do better."  (Remember that the preceding conversation had just given Helen some juicy hints, from Max, that Noah had partied on after Max went home, and that they both had partied with Alison.   Helen's comment may have reflected unacknowledged knowledge of Noah's involvement.)

 

I dunno.  But I wince every time "Waitress" explodes from Helen's mouth -- because Noah's mother was a waitress.  
 
It seems a bit cruel, and makes me doubt the truth of the memory.  And Helen's in retail, by God.  Waiting on customers.  Entwined in the lives of her own employees.  That stuff does make for empathy for the service industry.  I'm yet another former waitress.  As the other Formers have remarked upthread, the shared experience makes for connection and respect.

Edited December 15, 2014 by RimaTheBirdGirl

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

Oh, and in response to the Is-that-what-they-were-doing-in-bed discussion: Alison's "I'm yours," made me despair.  

 

That kind of surrender, yes -- represented by doing that in bed -- was so self-effacing, it was tragic.  Alison can escape her own life when she's with Noah; she's given it up; she's not herself, because "I'm yours."

 

Her lovemaking is so different with Noah, than with Cole.  With Noah, she's always underneath, subsumed.  

 

Not a fan of this affair.

[izabella]

If Noah doesn't remember that he walked Allison to the apartment he wanted her to rent for 2 years instead of letting her walk to the train station alone, I believe pretty much nothing about his perspective on what Helen did or didn't say. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by izabella

[Cirien]

If Noah doesn't remember that he walked Allison to the apartment he wanted her to rent for 2 years instead of letting her to walk to the train station alone, I believe pretty much nothing about his perspective on what Helen did or didn't say. 

*dedded*

[HumblePi]

Just some information about 'secondary drowning' also known as 'dry drowning'. This type of drowning is rare but it does happen. The writer did his homework on this one.

 

"Secondary drowning – sometimes called “delayed” or “dry” drowning – can occur hours after a person survives an underwater drowning experience. The individual may appear to be recovered, but the inhaled water is absorbed into the lungs and can damage the membranes necessary to exchange oxygen and carbon dioxide.

Symptoms – which are more difficult to detect in young children – include bouts of coughing, wheezing, gasping for air or lethargy.

If it is not treated in time, secondary drowning can be fatal."

 

"How it happens

The cause of secondary drowning is injury to the lungs from debris in the water: salt, dirt, bacteria and chemicals in chlorine. These injuries cause the lung to leak fluid and fill the lung’s alveoli. In addition, water that comes into the lungs can wash away surfactant, a chemical that helps the alveoli expand. Untreated, the fluids cause acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and eventually brain hypoxia and cardiac arrest. Sometimes, after recovering from secondary drowning, patients may suffer permanent damage with symptoms similar to emphysema."

 

Putting aside the fact that nearly every mother would rush her child to the emergency room after their kid nearly drowns, the fact remains that Alison wasn't just a nurse, she had specialty experience in Pediatrics. If anyone would be cautious enough to take a child that has just nearly drowned to the emergency room, even if it was only for peace of mind, it would be Alison. I also felt that her doctor gave her the wrong response to the question "do you believe in heaven, Dr. Henry?"  to which he answered, "no, no I don't". He's a doctor, an educated man. Didn't he realize that she needed some validation of her belief in heaven just for peace of mind? He knew she had severe emotional issues and the better answer would have been to tell her that the person she should be asking this question, would be her pastor or priest.

[stillshimpy]

That's something I wondered about too.  Helen has a store, even if it is a high end boutique, in a retail setting (no matter how posh) someone has treated her like crap at some point.  So it doesn't actually make a ton of sense, I do think it is something Noah's memory is meant to be embellishing quite a bit at this point.  

 

 

 

Alison is not uneducated, she was a pediatric nurse before Gabriel died.  She's waitressing because she can't bear to be around sick young children now, and that's understandable.  You have to be an R.N. to become a pediatric nurse and that can include some college and some hospital training, or a B.A. and training.  Who knows?  She may be as educated as Helen or Noah.

 

I don't think that her educational level actually matters at all to Helen in this scenario. 

 

 

 

I dunno.  But I wince every time "Waitress" is spat out of Helen's mouth -- because Noah's mother was a waitress.

 

I do think there will be some retroactive self-justifying at play here too when it comes to Noah's memories. 

 

Ruth Wilson broke my heart in that scene by the ocean, but Alison is a difficult character to actually like.  I do think the fact that she is in so much emotional pain has made her numb to the fact that other people can feel hurt too.  Pouring that shampoo down the drain was sort of like leaving her bra at the house.  A part of Alison wanted Helen to know she had been there, I think. 

 

 

 

Putting aside the fact that nearly every mother would rush her child to the emergency room after their kid nearly drowns, the fact remains that Alison wasn't just a nurse, she had specialty experience in Pediatrics. If anyone would be cautious enough to take a child that has just nearly drowned to the emergency room, even if it was only for peace of mind, it would be Alison.

 

By the way, it didn't actually ring all that true that Alison wouldn't know about secondary or dry-drowning.  My son was a lifeguard for a couple of years as his first job and it's just not that uncommon to know about it.  He's actually the person who told me about it initially, but a pediatric nurse should have known about that possibility.   I think that might be part of the point though.  Alison was just so relieved after being that shaken up that she repressed that knowledge.  

 

Cherry can burn in hell for digging at that wound though.  I sort of loved Doctor Henry, but I appreciated that he didn't lie to Alison about his own beliefs.  I think that was an important thing.  Just like he wouldn't entirely lie to Alison about whether or not Gabriel might be alive if he'd been taken to the hospital.  I think the comfort Alison could derive from that conversation actually lies in the doctor being sure not to simply placate her.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by stillshimpy

[HumblePi]

We can fanwank that the price was written on in sharpie, not affixed with a tag, can't we? If she bought it at a salon, they might not have the price tag affixer thingie.

 

Anyway, I think dumping the shampoo was Alison's "I drink your milkshake!" moment.

Maybe there was no price tag or sharpie mark on the bottom of the bottle, maybe it just said 'faite à Paris'. Seeing those words would be enough for me to think ....oh wow, expensive stuff right here.

[blixie]

 

This coupled with Sarah's tweet about Cole and Helen, (which seemed to imply that people who found them sympathetic were watching the series *wrong*) then yeah I think the show wants us to root for Noah and Alison.

 

What tweet? And why would anyone have to root for Noah and Allison because she says so?

[bourbon]

 

This coupled with Sarah's tweet about Cole and Helen, (which seemed to imply that people who found them sympathetic were watching the series *wrong*) then yeah I think the show wants us to root for Noah and Alison.

I tend not to follow a lot of what writers/showrunners say about their on show on social media, but shit, if a showrunner has to tweet to tell the audience how to watch his/her show, that doesn't say much. Nope. I'm actively rooting against them. I guess I'm out, if I was ever really in. 

[HumblePi]

Whenever I'm tempted to think of actors' work as being cushy and pampered, I see a scene like Alison walking into the hard ocean surf. Wilson is evidently not wearing a wetsuit, and the water temp was probably in the low 60s when they filmed. Which is bone-chilling cold. It will kill you -- maybe not as fast as Leo DiCaprio in Titanic, but pretty fast. Then she gets smacked in the face by a wave, which means she probably has a mouthful of salt water. She has to keep her balance to stay in the frame, which ain't easy in heavy surf. Plus, who knows how many takes were required, with the camera operator following behind? And then how many takes in wet clothes in the parking lot? That's not a good day on set, no matter how many awards you get for it.

I think most of the scenes outside in Montauk were filmed in the summer of 2013. I saw the advertisement that was published by the filming company that they were looking for a Brownstone in Brooklyn for filming. So the Brownstone is a home that really belong to someone who got paid to let the series film inside of it. The woman and her son that were on the beach when Alison was in the surf were dressed in the same winter coats as when she met them getting off the train. But in reality, they were only wearing the same coats for the scene which was shot in July or August. That's just editing.

[HumblePi]

It was amazing how she was so blase about being pregnant (at first anyway), but when Noah tried to take her laptop - you'll pull back a nub old man!!  For some reason that cracked me up.  Pretty realistic.

 

I thought Allison going after Oscar was (a) despair, (b) drunk, and © that feeling of, enough already, you're always hounding me about this, let's just get it over with so maybe you will shut the fuck up about it.

 

I am also suspicious that maybe Max and Helen are having an affair.  He has to know what Noah is like, and with both his pieces of advice (don't tell her, don't leave her) probably knew Noah would do the exact opposite.  Or maybe Max just crushes on Helen and hopes that with Noah out of the way he could have her. 

I think that Whitney was freaked out about Noah's eyes seeing who she was chatting with at that moment, and I think it was someone other than Scotty that got her pregnant, it may even have been Max. She was there communicating with the father of her baby, I have no doubt about that. This was a good reason why she was desperate to prevent Noah and Helen from seeing what was on her monitor.

[stillshimpy]

I think most of the scenes outside in Montauk were filmed in the summer of 2013

 

Yes, also the scene Brooklyn, where Noah picks up Alison (as in bodily picks her up) shows that there were still leaves on the trees.  They just dressed them as if they were in winter, but the leaves on that tree hadn't even started to turn.  

 

Also, if you watch the scene of Alison in the surf a couple of times, it's most camera angles that create the illusion that the surf is crashing into her.  Still, probably a tiring shoot, even if it wasn't likely to be imperiling Ruth Wilson, I'm sure it exhausted her.  

[izabella]

I think that Whitney was freaked out about Noah's eyes seeing who she was chatting with at that moment, and I think it was someone other than Scotty that got her pregnant, it may even have been Max. She was there communicating with the father of her baby, I have no doubt about that. This was a good reason why she was desperate to prevent Noah and Helen from seeing what was on her monitor.

 

Why would Scotty show up at the Planned Parenthood where she made her appointment for the abortion if he wasn't the father?

 

As for the computer, have you ever tried taking away a teen girl's computer and cell phone?  They act like you're cutting off their arms.

[DarkRaichu]

It bothered me how Noah, Helen, and Alison handled the pee stick without considering someone peed on that thing to make it work.  yuck..  Alison even touch her hair / face right after she hid the pee stick.. double yuck !!