S07.E13: Papa's Goods

[Captanne]

Within the structure of the Motorcycle Club Sutter gave us (and that's all we have to go on), the "system" voted Jax to meet Mr. Mayhem.  Remember, Chibs told them to not let their hearts get in the way of the best interests of the Club.  By their own rules, Jax had to die.  As the audience, we have the luxury of thinking with our hearts.  The Club didn't have that luxury and the vote was unanimous.

 

Personally, I think Jax was well and truly ready.  

 

While I appreciate Hunnam's opinion, he isn't Jax.  He's an actor who gives Jax life through other people's words and direction.  Without him, Jax doesn't exist -- but he can't "be" Jax because he doesn't put words or actions into him.  He is the vehicle through which the writers and directors and he create this character.  He may feel he knows the character better than anyone else, but at the end of the day, he goes home to his family and leads his real life.  Next time he'll be Thor (or whatever Marvel franchise he's a part of.)

Edited December 13, 2014 by Captanne

[justawatcher]

On the Nero/Wendy thing: I thought I remembered it as originally being a basic day trip/weekend trip invitation- "Hey, bring the kids and come out to the farm and see Lucius and pet the cows", then it became much, much more than that when Jax upped it by asking Nero to take Wendy and the boys away. Nero was being a buddy, then Jax handed him care of his family. I don't think Nero was expecting that or prepared for that, but as Nero is a man and a stand-up man at that, he took on the burden of Wendy and the boys until such time as she decides what to do and where to go. Don't forget Jax also dropped the settling of the estate on Nero as well. So at some point, Wendy and the boys are going to have to come back to Charming for funerals, to settle Jax's house, Gemma's house, Gemma's dad's house, the garage, and she may not know she was named care advocate for Gemma's dad. There will be trusts to create and such. They will all be back around the club, no way to avoid it. And who knows? Maybe Tig takes a boy on each knee and tells them heroic stories about their dad and both grandpas.

 

Maybe Wendy heads up to Oregon and lives at Hal Holbrook's house with the boys and cares for him.

Edited December 13, 2014 by justawatcher

[Chaos Theory]

On the Nero/Wendy thing: I thought I remembered it as originally being a basic day trip/weekend trip invitation- "Hey, bring the kids and come out to the farm and see Lucius and pet the cows", then it became much, much more than that when Jax upped it by asking Nero to take Wendy and the boys away

 

 

Nero has wanted out for awhile now for a lot of reasons.  He is loyal to Jax and in love with Gemma and those two things were what was keeping him in town for as long as he was.  However he bought the farm as a safe place to raise his son away from the violence and he offered it up as a vacation spot of Abel and Tommy.  It only later became more when Jax's house got attacked.   Nero and Wendy have always had a bit of a "I get where you are coming from" relationship both being addicts and Nero once telling her that his son was born with spinalbifia (Sp?) because his wife was junkie and well.....there was never any judgement between them but they knew where each other was coming from and what getting clean meant for each other.  

[Dusty]

 

He is loyal to Jax and in love with Gemma and those two things were what was keeping him in town for as long as he was.

 

But why?!?!?!!  That was my biggest problem with Nero.  I just never understood why he was so loyal to Jax and so in love with Gemma.  At least with the club, they watched Jax grow up. I can somewhat understand their blind loyalty.

[walnutqueen]

But why?!?!?!!  That was my biggest problem with Nero.  I just never understood why he was so loyal to Jax and so in love with Gemma.  At least with the club, they watched Jax grow up. I can somewhat understand their blind loyalty.

 

We're supposed to believe Gemma has a magical cooch, just like cunt-struck Sutter does.  Hence Jax has the magical penis, just like Sutter wishes he had (in one way or another). 

 

OK - that was bald-faced speculation and projection of MY "inner demons".  :-(

[BetyBee]

One aspect of Nero's story that has always bothered me is his blaming his son's spina bifida on his wife's being a junkie. Spina bifida is a neural tube defect and it can happen in any pregnancy. I have a nephew with spina bifida and his mother had excellent pre-natal care and has always had a healthy lifestyle. It happens. I blame Sutter of course for the misinformation! 

 

As much as Jax may want his boys to be taught to hate him, Wendy and Nero are not going to do that. Wendy still loved Jax when he died. I think his suicide was a coward's way out and it is very dangerous to his boys for him to suicide, especially if it's true that his father did so too. That is a very difficult burden for children to bear. The best we can hope for for these (fictional) boys is that their new life will be so far away from the club and the poison that Grandma and Jax would have raised them in, is that nurture will overcome nature and they will have fairly normal lives.

[Captanne]

Betybee

 

As much as Jax may want his boys to be taught to hate him, Wendy and Nero are not going to do that. Wendy still loved Jax when he died. I think his suicide was a coward's way out and it is very dangerous to his boys for him to suicide, especially if it's true that his father did so too.

 

It's a very good point you make here.  The fathers really have raised their sons.  There is a pattern now down three generations.  Who's going to bet that Abel grows up, like his mothers (Tara and Wendy) he returns to the Club, tries to "fix it" and ends up road kill?
 

ETA:  On a different subject, I thought Sutter set Chibs up to be a wonderful President.  I have to admit (seriously, this is the truth) that I found myself dreaming of a new season without Hunnam or Sagal the same way we moved on without Perleman's Clay Morrow or Opie.  Yeah.  The Chibs Hour.  I could handle that.  

 

(Did anyone else notice that the "Crow Road" is a SCOTTISH symbol for death?  No one?  I sure did.  Corvids are universal symbols for devilish behaviour and also carrion eating.  They are scavengers.  The Scots, though, give them the unique tale of being the animal guides to death.  You follow the crow road if you are on your way to die.)

Edited December 13, 2014 by Captanne

[walnutqueen]

Crows are also highly intelligent, and have a societal structure that would put the"Brothahood" to shame.  And they nurture their young and TEACH them, so the birds have the SOAs beat, in my book.   ;-)

 

And - pretty blue eyes that are more alive than Abel's.

[Captanne]

Walnutqueen can I upvote you, like, a million times, please?

 

I mentioned corvids rather than just crows because it's really the whole damned bunch of those devils.  So smart, they are.

 

Ravens, folks.  Check out ravens.  

 Spontaneous, intentional formation flying to rival the best fighter pilots we produce.  Breathtaking.

 

So, yeah, Jax followed them down the crow road, indeed.

 

PS:  Oops, that came up as a picture.  Is that what "embedded" means?  Is that a bad thing?  If it is, I'm sorry.  I don't know how to stop it.  Just wanted a link, really.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Captanne

[walnutqueen]

The corvid reference didn't escape my notice, Captanne, but I hesitated to show my bird lovin' ass to the world (too late, I know!).  LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your embedded video!  One of my favorite Nature episodes is A Murder of Crows, by the way.

 

I was fortunate enough to babysit a rescued baby crow for a couple of days until the corvid rehab lady came home (you're not supposed to rehab corvids or raptors if you're doing songbirds, so we had to turn them over to others...). He nestled against my chest and gazed up at me with fiercely intelligent and loving blue eyes as I fed him, and I was won & done!

 

Which is another reason I hate Kurt Sutter, because I am convinced he just saw a black bird and thought it made his show and Gemma seem cool and "edgy".

 

Obviously, I'm projecting a lot of personal pent up "issues" on the greasy pony-tailed motherfucker, but tough shit for Sutter - just wait till Katy Sagal unleashes her menopausal rages on him, and he'll wish for my vitriol.  :-)

[Captanne]

LOL  I try not to give too much away but *my avatar* is kind of a clue.

 

I was a career Air National Guard jet pilot (I do other stuff in real life), and have a thing for smart birds.

 

I don't know from Sutter, I admit.  I liked Otto and thought he was perfectly cast.  I had no idea that was Sutter himself.  (Kind of ... ew.)

 

Although he's not my "type", I think a show like Sons of Anarchy couldn't have come from the fetid brain of anyone else.

[walnutqueen]

LOL  I try not to give too much away but *my avatar* is kind of a clue.

 

I was a career Air National Guard jet pilot (I do other stuff in real life), and have a thing for smart birds.

 

I don't know from Sutter, I admit.  I liked Otto and thought he was perfectly cast.  I had no idea that was Sutter himself.  (Kind of ... ew.)

 

Although he's not my "type", I think a show like Sons of Anarchy couldn't have come from the fetid brain of anyone else.

 

Yes, Sutter is one sick fucking puppy, but he's OUR sick fucking puppy, now, isn't he?  (You only hate the ones you love ...)

 

Color me red with embarrassment, because I never notice the Avatars (this old aural brain stopped recognizing little pictures when ICONS replaced my beloved blue DOS prompt).  It's all beginning to make sense to me now.  Insert Homer Simpson D'oh here, and I'll bitchslap my own silly self.

 

I never had a thing for jet pilots before, but you're winning me over with the smart bird stuff... :-) 

 

She says with a smile, as hundreds of crows just happen to be conducting an impromptu convention in the trees outside her back door*.  Not a harassed hawk in sight, either, but it is totally raucous outside, and I am loving it!

 

* "Back door" is not another Sutter anal reference, by the way.  :-)

[Captanne]

True Story:  My BFF sent me a picture of the (wild) red tail hawk in her back yard who keeps dropping by to check out the buffet, er, bird feeders where the little guys nosh until Red Tail arrives and they all take off.   (And by *all*, I mean every living thing within a mile radius.)

 

She asked me to name it.

 

I suggested "Chibs".

 

I haven't heard back yet.

 

Heh.

 

ETA because it matters that this exchange occurred yesterday night on the drive home from work.  I don't think she's seen the finale.  

 

SUDDEN UPDATE:  BFF just wrote.  Mr. BFF has decided the Red Tail Hawk is female and named her Isabeau.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Captanne

[walnutqueen]

Chibbs is a PURRfect name for a raptor.  I have no talent for choosing cool names for the critters (I'm no David T. Cole with his Gordon Lightfoot doggie brilliance), so I revert back to the old "Kitty Kitty Puss Puss" variants for the most part (they only need names for the Vet clinic records, eh?!).

 

I feed birds AND feral cats (raccoons, possums, skunks, whatever's hungry) in my little Grey Gardens West, so the Circle of Life is on a 6 second time delay hereabouts.  I just don't watch it (because I can't bear to see or hear an animal suffer) - I'd rather see the violence and mayhem play out with the fictitiously graphic SOAs.

 

Red tailed, red shouldered, coopers, perigrine and ONE sorry assed golden eagle who got hit by a car - I've held and loved them all.  And saved their sorry little lives, for that matter, back in the day   Bird rehabbers have ONE answer when asked about their favorite bird - it's the one we're holding (feeding) at the time.  Even the dumb ones have a certain charm ... much like the characters on this show.

 

See how I smoothly worked in those references to give the appearance of staying on topic?  :-)  I'm warning myself, right now.

[Captanne]

I'm writing my cheque to City Wildlife for my donation as we speak.  Rescuing wild animals is tricky work.  Well done you!

 

Hopefully none of the crows got hit when Jax went under the truck.  (See what I did there?)

[Chaos Theory]

Sons of Anarchy was one of the dozen shows I watched live until the last few episodes.  The reason I stopped watching the show live had nothing to do with the writing or my dissatisfaction with the show and had more to do with the fact that the show was on at 10:00 and my work hours changed this winter and now I am going to sleep earlier.  I am in bed by 10:00 otherwise I would have watched the last couple of episodes live.   I was rather pissed that I got spoiled about Gemma death by the people at work who were talking about it the next day and I happened to overhear.  

 

I have said my peace about the show and this is one of those shows that have never really disappointed me.  Yes some episodes were better then others and some seasons were better then others but I thought Sons of Anarchy as a whole bordered on brilliant.  No, it is not at the level of Breaking Bad (but what is? I don't think we will see a show at that level for years) and comparing any show to BB is not really my style anyway.  I judge any show on its own merit and never got the point of judging one show against another.  I have seen too many people say...."oh it is ok but it is no Game of Thrones....."  I just find the expression silly and a detriment to enjoyment of television.  Sons of Anarchy was a fine series if you took it for what it was and I enjoyed it from the first episode.  

 

The irony is I didn't think I would enjoy it.  I remember only watching the first episode because of Katey Sagal (I loved her on Married With Children and thought she got a bum rapp on 10 rules for dating my teenage daughter so I wanted to see her on something NOT a comedy.)  I actually had no idea at the time that her husband was the show runner.  Also FX has been pretty good to me television wise so I thought I would give it a shot.  I didn't expect to like it.   I mean heavy on the testosterone shows don't really appeal to me.....buuuuuuuut.  I fell in love day one.

 

And I stayed in love all the way until the bitter bitter end.

 

So this show may not be the best show I have ever seen but it kept me entertained and that is all I ever ask for in a television show.  I don't need to learn anything .  I don;t need to be challenged.  I don;t need to be emotionally moved.  I just need to be entertained.

 

And Sons of Anarchy did that from the moment Jax Teller rode onto my screen.  

Edited December 13, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The reason I have been all fired up and expressed gross disappointment is because it is not often that a show has a chance to be great.  There are any number of entertainments that never strive to be more than that.  I love  my fair share of such.  This show, though, had carved out an incredibly rich niche of society.  The producer had the full backing of a network who didn't just tolerate edginess, they demanded that typical TV strictures be blown up.  This is a ridiculously rare occurrence.  Sutter and his creative team had demonstrated abilities beyond the norm.  They spoke often of aspiring to greatness.  

 

And they blew it.

 

They settled for soap opera.  It all became shock shlock.  Yes, the stretching of the story into a seventh season was difficult to overcome.  Then again - what an opportunity!  Better storytellers would have developed significant new arcs.   They had already boxed themselves in with the Morrow and Teller fates being settled.  You telling me CCH Pounder wouldn't have carried a good portion of the show with stories about the politics behind Pope and Marks and the judicial system of an inherently corrupt area?   How about getting to know a neighboring MC?  What differences would have been displayed?  There were myriad directions and opportunities available.  Instead, it was Gemma's universe.  

 

It coulda been a contenduh.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Captanne]

It all may merely come down to matters of taste.  I loved Sons of Anarchy from beginning to end.  As it was said earlier, some episodes were better than others, but I thought they lived up to the potential -- and, in someways went beyond.  Attempting to "update" Shakespeare is no small feat (Kurosawa did it and the RSC did it with Richard III set in WWII, Nazi Germany).  I give Sutter full credit for doing that successfully.  I really felt "Hamlet" played out.  SoA may be used in a High School to tell the story.  

 

Then, I give Sutter credit for carrying that over 7 seasons.  Most shows I like don't last for more than four and the fourth is pretty much an abortion.  

 

That the strain of carrying a 5 Act 17th Century Play for 7 years made it get soapy?

 

I can live with that.

 

Also, with personal taste in mind, I watch soap operas (made it through General Hospital from 1983 through 2013!) and I didn't find SoA soapy for one second.  I saw it as political intrigue's failure to cope with family corruption.  But no soap.  That is explicitly my own opinion.

 

ETA:  Chaos Theory makes an excellent point.  The Ireland story did get soapy but I think that had intent (which, to my mind is redeeming) because they had to explain JT's relationship in and to Ireland.  It wasn't pointless, "Chad slept with my heretofore unknown twin?!!" but more, "We need the personal drama to set up why Gemma ended up turning to Clay."

 

In Hamlet, Gertrude turns to Claudius because "that's how things were done.  When the husband died, the brother took the widow."  We don't have that social construct so one had to be manufactured.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Captanne

[Chaos Theory]

Also, with personal taste in mind, I watch soap operas (made it through General Hospital from 1983 through 2013!) and I didn't find SoA soapy for one second.  I saw it as political intrigue's failure to cope with family corruption.  But no soap.  That is explicitly my own opinion.

 

 

The Ireland plot might have been a little soapy.  I mean one of the stock in trade tropes of Soaps is baby kidnappings added to that Jax nearly had sex with his half-sister (another stock in trade of a soap)  Besides that I think the show did an admiral job of keeping away from most of the soapy aspects of a soap.  Dead people stayed dead etc.  So I agree this was by no means a soap.   I have seen my share of soaps.   7 seasons is a long time for a television show and Sutter did a good job keeping this from getting stale.  

[Madding crowd]

Someone said the kids are doomed because Wendy and Nero never had straight lives.  I disagree that Wendy never had one.

 

I was the one who said Wendy and Nero never had straight lives, but I didn't say the kids were doomed. If fact, I said that it isn't possible for a 5 year old and a baby to be doomed. They are tiny beings who have their whole lives in front of them. However, I stand by my belief that Nero (much as I love him) has pretty much been a criminal his entire life, and Wendy's two seconds of being an abuse counselor ended when she decided to be Gemma's best bud and all around SAMCRO hanger on again. This is after she was shot up and left for dead by both Gemma and Jax. If she truly was interested in her child she should have hired a lawyer and stayed far away from Jax.

 

Nero was trying to be a better person, but his association with Gemma brought him right back into the thug business. On top of that, he never promised to be a dad to Abel and Thomas and he and Wendy are not a couple. It's likely that Wendy would be raising the kids herself. If Jax loved his kids he would have ran away with them and started a new life with a regular job and no contact with the club. He could even have run away with Wendy. I just don't trust Wendy since she was so buddy-buddy with Gemma and if anyone knows how disgusting Gemma was, it was Wendy. So, I don't think any child is doomed, but I think they are not going to grow up with good role models either.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Could Jax have given up the club entirely and lived a normal life?  I can't imagine he'd have been able to get a job with his record. 

[Chaos Theory]

Could Jax have given up the club entirely and lived a normal life? I can't imagine he'd have been able to get a job with his record.

He made a comment about that once to Tara. Jax had no marketable skills; even his work at the repair shop was mostly for show. Plus he doesn't really have the mind for a normal life. Of course he could do it. Plenty of people have and for worse reasons but Jax never was someone I could see living a straight life....especially without Tara.

<---edited

Edited December 14, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Captanne]

I think the clear answer to that question is "no" and it's answered by Jax himself in the final episode.  He realizes he's a "criminal and a killer".  He also realizes he's a Bad Man.

 

Jax is the first person to say he would never survive outside of the Club.  Life in the Club was all he knew.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Captanne

[Kel Varnsen]

Just finished watching it, it wasn't terrible, just stupid. And considering I wasn't expecting too much that wasn't too bad. If they could have made it shorter it wouldn't have been so annoying.

Why didn't the cops set up a roadblock or box him in? It was like the cops chasing Cartman on his Big-wheel on South Park.

It was nice to know at least that Sutter kept up the theme of the last few seasons that cops in Northern California are completely inept. I mean they were at least 20 cop cars/bikes behind Jax. Am I supposed to understand that all of them heard about the chase when they were already behind him? Then again he was able to shoot up court house steps and get away and ride to their base on the docks in a bright blue motorcycle, without anyone catching him along the way.

 

All that over done "fancy" camera work for the chase made me almost laugh. Especially the long shots of the whole line of cop cars that sort of swooped around and then went the other way.

 

I hadn’t thought about the Christ metaphor because so obviously Jax isn’t Christ, but the bread/blood/wine, as well as Jax’ arms-raised motion, speak to that.  Which is stupid.  The homeless woman had bread too, I wondered it was the same bread. 

With all the Jesus stuff in this episode I wonder if when Sutter was writing the script if he was kicking himself for not naming Jax, Jackson Cellar or something so that his initials could be J.C. 

 

Also when those irish guys were threatening the club about killing the "irish king" it made me laugh. Those guys are in ireland, and the sons are in California. Really how much of a threat could they be. Then again I never bought the IRA as being a real threat, since my understanding is that hostilities between the UK and the IRA have pretty much died down.  

[justawatcher]

Here's my other theory concerning Abel: I think Sutter wrote himself an "out". Give it 3-5 years. Let SoA's place in TV history settle and cement itself. See how the medieval thing works out. If after the medieval thing, there is a demand for more Sons, Katey's going to be too old to CGI back into her early 20's, so the logical place to go would be with the sons of the Sons.

 

Fast forward it 20 years and you've got Abel and Thomas, Opie's boy, didn't Bobby have 1 boy? For sure a girl (and being Sutter Land, there's gotta be a chick to bang). I'm pretty sure Wendy got knocked up that last night. This is TV after all. And then you've got the potential for Tig, and Chibs' daughters to pop out a generation, for any of them to father one- Sutter could manufacture whatever characters he wanted to. Lyla's son- there's a whole table there. And 20 years in the future? we could get a Sutter does Mad Max thing. Biker apocalypse.

[Kel Varnsen]

Sons of the Sons of Anarchy could have potential. I would be curious to see how Sutter portrays life in the 2030's. SAMCRO: Now with flying motorcycles.  That said he probably does feel that his wife would have no trouble playing Gemma in her 20's. 

 

 

Also back to the episode, how nice of Chibs to shoot Happy in the forearm. I mean it is not like you need your arm or hand to do things like ride a motorcycle. Would be hilarious if it was revealed that the gun shot wound left Happy with permanent damage and he was never able to ride again and was kicked out of SAMCRO.

[Captanne]

Yay spinoff!!  I'm totally on board with that.

 

I was thinking it during the entire episode.

[NoWillToResist]

Wendy's two seconds of being an abuse counselor ended when she decided to be Gemma's best bud and all around SAMCRO hanger on again. This is after she was shot up and left for dead by both Gemma and Jax. If she truly was interested in her child she should have hired a lawyer and stayed far away from Jax.

 

Now that is a custody lawsuit I'd love to have seen. Crappy choice vs crappier choice. Maybe that would have been the way to get Abel and Thomas into a foster family! :)

 

I'm glad that Abel didn't piece together that Thomas is only partly his brother since they had different mothers. God knows what that would do to the kid!

 

However, in Wendy's defense, when she returned to Charming, she and Tara kind of bonded over both wanting the boys out of Charming and away from the club. Tara wanted the boys with Wendy over Jax. When Wendy was drugged by Jax and later returned, I don't think it had anything to do with any real affection for Jax or Gemma; it was about the boys. IMO, she did everything she felt she could to help those boys. She was there for them, loved them, provided stability, lent her voice to supporting getting Abel into therapy etc. I think she was well aware that any legal action on her part would have resulted in Jax and Gemma taking those boys so far away from her that she'd be fucked. She certainly has no claim on Thomas at all (unless those guardianship papers are still hanging around somewhere). I think she bided her time, hoping that Jax would eventually get his head out of his ass and get his kids out himself (and she could go too), or, at the very least, she could be the one positive force in those kids' lives.

Edited December 14, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Artsda]

I don't think Tara ever bonded with Wendy, she never cared about Wendy. Wendy on her first return spoke a lot of truth, that Tara didn't want. She cared about what Wendy could offer her/the boys. Her treatment of Wendy was pretty bad, she was just a pawn in Tara's plots.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Artsda

[Broderbits]

 

If she truly was interested in her child she should have hired a lawyer and stayed far away from Jax.

 

Then Wendy and/or the lawyer would have been dead within a week. Gemma and the club would never have allowed a custody trial to happen.

[jrlr]

Here's my other theory concerning Abel: I think Sutter wrote himself an "out". Give it 3-5 years. Let SoA's place in TV history settle and cement itself. See how the medieval thing works out. If after the medieval thing, there is a demand for more Sons, Katey's going to be too old to CGI back into her early 20's, so the logical place to go would be with the sons of the Sons.

 

Fast forward it 20 years and you've got Abel and Thomas, Opie's boy, didn't Bobby have 1 boy? For sure a girl (and being Sutter Land, there's gotta be a chick to bang). I'm pretty sure Wendy got knocked up that last night. This is TV after all. And then you've got the potential for Tig, and Chibs' daughters to pop out a generation, for any of them to father one- Sutter could manufacture whatever characters he wanted to. Lyla's son- there's a whole table there. And 20 years in the future? we could get a Sutter does Mad Max thing. Biker apocalypse.

Yup, just change Thomas' name to Cain and you've got - oh wait, you've got East of Eden, don't you?

'

[Chaos Theory]

f she truly was interested in her child she should have hired a lawyer and stayed far away from Jax.

 

 

Then we would never have seen her on our television screen and what fun would that have been?  This is Sons of Anarchy not Law and Order.  Its about the drama and watching a court case.  Court cases are boring.  Watching Wendy tell Jax that the truth is always better then the lie and mean it; knowing full well what her truth is, watching her confront Tara in a hospital bed after Tara's whole world has fallen part and then watch Tara explode is good dramatic television.  Watching a  court case between Jax and Wendy would have been boring as hell and not really what this show was about.    And yes I do think she cared about her son.  I just think she didn't believe Jax was bad father.  I am not sure myself if he is  or isn't.  I know some people automatically call him a bad father because he is a bad man and a criminal buuuut.....despite the fact that the club was usually his first priority I saw nothing in his behavior that made him a bad father.  Just not the world greatest one.

 

On a different note.  I know some people where joking abut Montages and songs.  My question is what song used duding the entire series (and it has to have been used during the series) would you use for the theme song for the show?     I am thinking the last one "Come to the Murdder" is a pretty good one...Or maybe it is the only one I remember off the top of my head.  

 

<---I really am blind.  I do try and edit my posts before I post them but dude. Can't see worth a damn because editing error ho!

Edited December 14, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Captanne]

How about "He Ain't Heavy; He's my Brother" by The Hollies?

[Madding crowd]

I wasn't suggesting we see an actual court case play out; I just think that Wendy knows exactly who and what Gemma and Jax are and she willing went back into that life. She let Gemma use her place to hide Juice, she knew she was getting into the criminal element. Of course I understand this is a TV show, but we have been as always discussing the characters as if they were real people. If this was real life, they would all have been rotting in jail a long time ago. 

[Artsda]

Wendy knew the life, she knew Gemma and Jax. She knew how to play the game to be there for the kids and not end up dead like Tara did. That's why Wendy's left standing raising both boys and Tara was not.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Artsda

[Captanne]

Damn, but I miss this show.  Rats.

 

ETA:  Madding crowd, I'm not as upset by Jax's death as your post indicates you are (I understand, though), but I am haunted by that contented smile on his face as he committed his bike to the grill of the truck.

 

WAH.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Captanne

[Madding crowd]

I miss the show too. Of course Jax had to die to fulfill Sutters vision. But he also could have left the club and washed dishes, worked in a bar or even worked as a porn actor ( he has a great ass). Instead, Abel and Thomas are growing up with a struggling recovered addict and no dad, which is still probably a step up.

[Kel Varnsen]

Then Wendy and/or the lawyer would have been dead within a week. Gemma and the club would never have allowed a custody trial to happen.

Isn't that exactly what happened when Wendy ended up getting forcibly shot up by Jax? Didn't she threaten to go to the cops or get a lawyer? Even she would have to know that the drugs were a warning and next time she would be dead.

[Disraeli Ears]

I found myself thinking about this show last night and how much of the final season ended up being filler for those bloated episodes. Chib's fling with the sheriff? Brook and Rat's relationship? The Eggly in the hospital with Unser bit? Even, unfortunately, Walton Goggins's lovely Venus story. All had slight connections to the main story, but 3 of them merely provided gratuitous sex scenes.

*sigh* I enjoyed reading everyone's crazy predictions more than how the actual season played out!

Edited December 16, 2014 by Disraeli Ears

[TigerLynx]

Jax didn't really resolve anything.  He did his usual half-assed job, and it will be up to Nero, Wendy, etc. to finalize the mess Jax left behind.  I think Nero and Wendy having Abel and Thomas would make more sense if they had been around longer.  Wendy was on in the first season, disappeared to rehab, and when she returned Jax wanted her gone again.  Nero and Wendy sort of got picked by default, all other options being lousy or dead.

 

I don't think Wendy was smart.  I think she got lucky.  Just like Lyla got lucky.  Wendy and Lyla could easily be dead just like Donna and Tara.  A smart woman would never get involved with these guys to begin with.

Edited December 17, 2014 by TigerLynx

[NoWillToResist]

I don't think Wendy was smart.  I think she got lucky.  Just like Lyla got lucky.  Wendy and Lyla could easily be dead just like Donna and Tara.  A smart woman would never get involved with these guys to begin with.

 

...as evidenced by the fact that young Tara got out and was independent, smart and successful. When Tara decided to stay in Charming with Jax, she literally lost all of that and then her life to boot!

[nicepebbles]

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. I'm fine with the ending. Jax dead or end up in jail were the only options despite the fact that this is Sutter's world and anything is possible given all the things that would never have happened in real life. Nero and Wendy have the boys. I do believe the boys have a chance b/c I can't see Wendy or Nero finding that thug life appealing after Jax dies. I think they can do it. If all the unbelievable shit that went down can happen, why not them making it on the other side? I don't see the boys as being doomed.

The symbolism was lost on me. I blame sleep deprivation. And why would anyone look at Jax as Christ- like figure?

I think JT committed suicide but Gemma and Clay planned to take him out so they messed with the bike. If they had just waited. Lol.

Why did Jax say he wouldn't have made the guys kill him? If so, why go through the motions of vote and meeting in the warehouse? For whose benefit did they do that? Dumb.

So the homeless lady was a waste? Very annoying if she served no purpose.

The last scene with Chibs and Jarry made me so pissed that valuable time was wasted on their relationship. Someone upthread said she's Unsler 2.0, showing you can't be with the Sons without being with the Sons. I get that. Perhaps there was a better way to do that than what we got. Chibs came off as a HUGE dick IMO in that last scene.

Why does Tig get to have a happy ending? No pun and pun intended. Lol. That dude doesn't deserve it.

This show has always had issues. I've watched despite being pissed at times. It became a chore sometimes. I still love it more than I don't like aspects of it. I'll miss it.

Edited December 18, 2014 by nicepebbles

[Lonesome Rhodes]

 

Why does Chibs get to have a happy ending? No pun and pun intended. Lol. That dude doesn't deserve it.

I'd argue the reverse:  Chibs was sentenced to a new hell on earth.  It was tough enough for him to deal with all the crap that came down on the club due to another's decisions.  Now, it's all on him and he really is not cut out for strategic plays.  Given that the MC has not been this weak since its inception (if ever) puts him in an impossible bind.  Alvarez and other leaders will eat him alive.

 

He gets Tig as his trusty rock to lean upon?  Tragically comical.

 

Having said this, he richly deserves this turrible fate.  They all do.

[Toxic]

I wasn't always happy with the direction recent seasons took, but I will also miss this series a lot. I just caught up on the final two episodes and rewatched the Pilot last night because I like to see how (/if) shows bookend their first and last episodes. Lot of neat little parallels I would not have remembered or caught; the roller coaster evolution of the SoA's relationship with Álvarez and the Mayans re: the gun trading business, the finding of JT's journal and photos in storage and setting the course of the story vs. burning them in the finale so the next generation wouldn't follow suit, Jax hesitating to kill even when he was being shot at compared to how he'd go in guns blazing and not bat an eye as the seasons went on... even Bobby Elvis singing "Can't Help Falling in Love" which was used again in this episode!

The final scene of the pilot is Jax and Gemma standing over Abel in the NICU, and Gemma cooing that "he's perfect" as Clay comes into view in the background of the picture. It was chilling, looking at these ghosts on the screen and considering the everlasting effect their lives AND deaths have had on Abel going into the finale. There was also this "gem" of an exchange: "Tellers do not die easy." "No, we just die bloody."

I wish I knew the often senseless tragedy I was investing in when I started watching!

And goodness, Charlie's covered accent in S1 is so much more distracting than his eventual complete disregard for it later on.

[nicepebbles]

Lonesome Rhodes, I meant Tig with the happy ending. I do agree Chibs is in a bad spot if we were talking about the real world. Bad shit happens to the guys but they somehow come out on top as in they are not decimated. I mean in the real world the Chinese and Marks' gang would have laid waste to the Sons. So the future isn't looking rosy yet they'll be fine.

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

So the homeless lady was a waste? Very annoying if she served no purpose.

I'm going to fanwank that the homeless lady was Death.  Makes sense to me.

[NoWillToResist]

I'm going to fanwank that the homeless lady was Death.  Makes sense to me.

 

Certainly makes her "it's time" to Jax wonderfully ominous! :)

[Captanne]

I think she was either Death or Fate.

 

ETA much Later:  I'm inclined to believe she was "Fate" -- however, having done a little research into Fate and Shakespeare (because I am a total nerd), I see that Shakespeare believed that as hard as we try to control our fates through free will, we are ultimately at its mercy.  (For example:  http://www.shakespearestudyguide.com/Shake2/Fate.html, accessed today).

 

However, Jax took control with his own free will and maneuvered the situation -- so much so that he illicited complaints here.  That he got too much accomplished in his last day, LOL.  Too many loose strings shot down in cold blood without getting caught.  

 

Shakespeare would have it that the catastrophe at the end of Hamlet was the result of his attempting to control fate through his intellect -- which rendered him incapable of taking action.

 

Action-Jackson was quite the opposite.

 

Did Sutter do his homework and intentionally make a statement with Jax Teller?  That man can control his Fate?  Or was it just storytelling that randomly went against his muse?  Unless we ask Sutter and the writing team, we won't know.

 

Lastly, I think the police chase was cool as hell and quite right -- cops are taught not to accelerate and force a biker off the road because, "roadkill".  IIRC from my motorcycle class years ago, cops run you down but they hang back until you either wear out or run out of gas or they can box you in.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Captanne

[wmdekooning]

The last couple days I've been thinking it should have ended like this...

 

http://www.vulture.com/2014/12/complete-list-of-who-was-on-the-colbert-finale.html?mid=twitter_vulture#

[Chaos Theory]

I think she was either Death or Fate.

ETA much Later: I'm inclined to believe she was "Fate" -- however, having done a little research into Fate and Shakespeare (because I am a total nerd), I see that Shakespeare believed that as hard as we try to control our fates through free will, we are ultimately at its mercy. (For example: http://www.shakespearestudyguide.com/Shake2/Fate.html, accessed today).

Lastly, I think the police chase was cool as hell and quite right -- cops are taught not to accelerate and force a biker off the road because, "roadkill". IIRC from my motorcycle class years ago, cops run you down but they hang back until you either wear out or run out of gas or they can box you in.

A few seasons ago a few of the Charming Police were chastised for trying to run the club off the road. i think the wording was "Playing GTA with them."