Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Serena]

Gross.

But, who's writing the actual finale? Since A&E are writing part 1? Are they writing both? Last year they didn't.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Serena

[retrograde]

Predictions for the unanswered questions:

 

Is Lily Maleficent’s daughter?
KITSIS: Can’t say.

 

 

Duh, yes.

 

Will we be finding out what happened to Will’s true love Anastasia?
HOROWITZ: Can’t say.

 

 

Not in any depth. I suspect they'll do something with Will in 5a. Hopefully. Maybe. 

 

Will we hear an “I love you” from any of the couples this season?
HOROWITZ: Can’t say.

 

 

Yes. Robin and Regina. 

 

Will there be anymore pregnancies this season?
HOROWITZ: Can’t say.

 

 

No.

 

Will everyone survive the Queens of Darkness’ wrath?
HOROWITZ: Can’t say.

 

 

My guess is that the queens themselves won't survive (other than Mal), but I don't see any major character deaths.

[Souris]

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1. Sigh, so it will be the Swan queen version of last years.

 

12 millions UGHs.

[KingOfHearts]

 

My guess is that the queens themselves won't survive (other than Mal), but I don't see any major character deaths.

 

If it has anything to do with changing the status quo, it's not happening.

 

 

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1. Sigh, so it will be the Swan queen version of last years.

Why would you call a season finale that? It's so juvenile! Very, very unappealing. Why not something a little more grand? I would take more Lost episode title rip-offs over this! With names like "Lily" and "Mother", it seems they've lost creativity for names. It really sounds like the writers are a bunch of 13 year olds.

 

They really ticked off everyone who didn't care for the Operation Mongoose storyline in 4A, didn't they?

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1.

 

I knew I'd end up hating this entire half season.

[YaddaYadda]

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1. Sigh, so it will be the Swan queen version of last years.

 

Well this has taken on a tragic turn.  I don't know if I should laugh or cry about this.  So is the Mongoose going to kill the Cobra?

[retrograde]

The only major character deaths I will ever expect to see are: Rumple, if the actor wants off the show, or Belle, if they want Rumple to go full evil. Emma and Regina can't go. Henry would be too difficult for Emma and Regina. Hook is too popular with the fans. I guess they could kill of Snow or Charming, but I'm not entirely sure what the point would be. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

or Belle, if they want Rumple to go full evil

They can't kill off Belle since she is a Disney princess.

[retrograde]

Re the episode title: Eh. I fully expected the finale to be about the search for the author, so I don't really understand the surprise here. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by retrograde

[Shanna Marie]

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1.

Yay, a two-part adventure about Regina staring at a book and going, "Why, oh why, can't I have a happy ending?"

[Curio]

My one ultimate wish with Operation Mongoose Part 1 and 2 is that this entire stupid plot line is resolved and nothing carries over into Season 5 and we can start with a blank slate of new plots that won't make me want to throw things at my television screen. 

[YaddaYadda]

Re the episode title: Eh. I fully expected the finale to be about the search for the author, so I don't really understand the surprise here. 

Oh for sure.  I think we were expecting the whole Author plot to come to a head.  I'm assuming we'll be meeting the Sorcerer too.  

 

But a finale with Regina running around makes me, I don't think there are words to describe the feeling.  And no, it's neither joy nor excitement...all I know is that the finale better be good.  I wanna be excited about season 5.

 

I do think we're heading into an AU type of world though.  

 

So they might be filming two days straight in Stevetson in two weeks?  I am looking forward to the confusion.

[ABitOFluff]

Re the episode title: Eh. I fully expected the finale to be about the search for the author, so I don't really understand the surprise here. 

Is this the episode they shot yesterday with Henry running through the empty streets? If everyone went to alternate universes and Henry's not among them, it can't be all that bad.

[Curio]

Is this the episode they shot yesterday with Henry running through the empty streets? If everyone went to alternate universes and Henry's not among them, it can't be all that bad.

 

I'm more upset that we're finally seeing some effects of this stupid author plot and it'll all end up being crammed into the last two episodes. Why are we spending three freaking episodes devoted to Lily prior to this? If we're actually dealing with alternate universe stuff here, I'd rather see that stretched out longer and explored instead of them trying to make another movie finale like last year. Based on the spoilers, it just seems like treading water, treading water, useless background about a character we don't care about, treading water... BAM! "Epic" finale. But I suppose I should be used to that kind of plotting by now with this show.

 

This might be a bold statement, but I'll say it anyways: I liked Tamara and Greg more than this Operation Mongoose storyline.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Why are we spending three freaking episodes devoted to Lily prior to this?

 

Technically, Lily should still be part of 421.  She got 419 (Lily), 420 (Mother) and then she should be in 421.  Unless she's in 418, which is Cruella's backstory if they're using that episode as transition.  It's odd that Cruella would have her backstory so late in the season.  Maybe she took care of Lily and was the adoptive mother?  It's contrived and that's what the show is all about.

Edited March 13, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

Technically, Lily should still be part of 421. She got 419 (Lily), 420 (Mother) and then she should be in 421.

 

Apologies. I should change my sentence to: Why are we spending three episodes on Lily at all?

[The Cake is a Pie]

Will Robin Hood ever come back to Storybrooke?

HOROWITZ: I would keep watching.

KITSIS: I hope so, it’s just so sad what happened to them, but you never know on this show.

By "them" he means Robin, Marian, and Roland, right? Because dating for like, 3 days, and having crypt sex, then realizing it's not going to work out isn't really that sad, it's life. Except for the part about crypt sex. That IS sad. Edited March 13, 2015 by The Cake is a Pie

[YaddaYadda]

By "them" he means Robin, Marian, and Roland, right? Because dating for like, 3 days, and having crypt sex, then realizing it's not going to work out isn't really that sad, it's life. Except for the part about crypt sex. That IS sad.

 

Am I the only one who hopes that if they're going the whole AU route for the finale that Regina is as miserable as a bunch of rocks in her life with Robin?  Please TIIC let this happen!  I need this!

 

ETA - Marco said to Regina that maybe she didn't think this search for the Author was ill-fated.  After yesterday's stuff, he knew what he was talking about.

Edited March 13, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[retrograde]

Is this the episode they shot yesterday with Henry running through the empty streets? If everyone went to alternate universes and Henry's not among them, it can't be all that bad.

Yeah. My guess is that the part they shot with Emma, Regina and the Apprentice is towards the start of the episode a and the Henry thing towards the end, though.

I think it's possible they cast the adult Lily actress expecting she's be in three eps but ended up just doing two. The number of episodes was taken from the casting notes, I believe. Anyway, I don't think the episodes are "about" her in the sense that they will be told from her perspective or her missing years will be explored in great depth any more than the episodes featuring the Apprentice have been about him. The story is about Mal, Emma, Snowing and maybe Regina, and Lily is the person caught up in the middle of their shit.

[RadioGirl27]

Why would you call a season finale that? It's so juvenile! Very, very unappealing. Why not something a little more grand? I would take more Lost episode title rip-offs over this! With names like "Lily" and "Mother", it seems they've lost creativity for names. It really sounds like the writers are a bunch of 13 year olds.

They don't even care anymore. This reminds me of some of my students (a group I have with some problems). They had to write a tittle for a text about the Colosseum, and all of them have chosen as tittle: "The Colosseum". Well, this is the same.

It's good I don't have any expectation about this half season.

[Rumsy4]

Yeah--the episode title is extremely unappealing. But I would enjoy an alternate reality scenario for two episodes, if it is done well. And, if this leads to CS movie Part II, I'll be perfectly okay with it. Except--since this is about Operation Stupid, I'm afraid it will be either the adventures of Regina/Robin or of Regina/Emma. 

 

It's really getting ridiculous when there are five to six people on-screen, and only two of them talk. In Seak Peek 2, Hook and Charming didn't even say anything. If Emma is going undercover with the QoD, Snow and Charming will end up looking even more culpable that they sent her in to the enemy's territory without giving her complete information. JMo still comes across as awkward in scenes where Emma is propping up Regina. I won't blame the SQers fo getting their hopes up for SQ to be endgame after this season, especially after the way a particular TV show

Legend of Korra

ended.

[Curio]

Do you think there's any chance the mods would agree to naming the episode discussion thread titles "Operation Dumbass Part 1" and "Operation Dumbass Part 2" when those episodes air? It would bring me such great joy as an inside joke amongst this forum.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

Will we see Belle’s mother again this season?

KITSIS: Nope.

HOROWITZ: Not this year.

 

 

Will the consequences of Snow and Charming sharing a heart be addressed this year?

HOROWITZ: No.

 

Really tired of the the writers setting things up then doing nothing with them. Then they'll reference it later well after everyone stopped caring.

 

 

 

Is Maleficent a fairy?

HOROWITZ: No.

For real?! Why writers?! Quit throwing interesting, established material away in favor of boring, contrived plots no one cares about! They keep screwing up every freaking fairy tale they get their hands on. We could have delve into fairy lore! If she's not the Black Fairy, then who is?

 

Why are all the intriguing questions answered by "No" or "Can't say", yet the the duh ones get specific answers? There's not even real answers to half these questions. What a false headline.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

In this kind of interviews, can't say means yes 90% of the time.

[YaddaYadda]

What if it's Rumple who got to the Author and coerces him into whatever?  Robin is back in Storybrooke, so Regina probably stopped caring about Operation Who Gives a Fuck since she's getting what she wants.  

[Mari]

But a finale with Regina running around makes me, I don't think there are words to describe the feeling.  And no, it's neither joy nor excitement...all I know is that the finale better be good.  I wanna be excited about season 5.

What is this feeling?

Loathing.  Unadulterated loathing. 

 

Or at least, that's what Elphaba, Galinda, and I think.  You get to have your own feelings, and I will try not to stomp on them.    :)

 

 

So, this week I had to explain why I still watched this show.  One third of it was this board, one third of it was "How bad will it get?", and one third of it was the few characters I still enjoyed.  I'm no longer going to have some of that, am I?

[scenicbyway]

Sneak peek 2, a gift for Swan Queen shippers.

Seriously?  Why would Emma go undercover with Regina?  Why would the QOD let her into their circle?  Why are Hook and Charming just standing there?  There better be a scene with Hook and Emma where they discuss what a bad idea this is.  This is so dumb.

[scenicbyway]

Operation Mongoose Pt. 1.  Obviously no one has pointed out to Henry and Emma that Mongoose kill Cobras.  If Henry ends up alone because of the "Operation" it'll be kinda funny.  Unfortunately, it will probably mean two hours of "save Henry" all over again.  I don't really doubt that Regina actually turns out to be pregnant at the end of this season.  I think it probably means that we won't see any more development in Captain Swan until next fall.   I'd love to see an engagement or even another date but I won't hold my breath.  I think the writers assumed the show would only run five seasons, but now that it looks like it might go longer they are slowing down the CS development.

[worryfaraway]

Please no Operation Mongoose part 3 as the finale, I'll be bored to death.

They "can't say" with that Anastasia question, hopefully they will bring her back in the finale since the OM really should last only 2 ep.

[Souris]

The finale will be Operation Mongoose part 2. That'll be Ep 22.

[kitticup]

A&E are playing with fire. It's almost like they want to anger every segment of their fan base. They tried to placate Neal fans by naming Snowflake Neal and it only incensed them. Here they want to placate SQ fans but I don't see them ever being endgame. That will only encourage the most rabid ones to hate on CS even more. CS fans will lose interest in show because there is no emotional payoff.

[KingOfHearts]

 

They "can't say" with that Anastasia question, hopefully they will bring her back in the finale since the OM really should last only 2 ep.

Hopefully they'll do the idiotic Marian parallel and have her randomly come back at the finale, foiling Scarlet Beauty. Heck, maybe Rumple will save Anastasia from danger just to break them up.

 

 

A&E are playing with fire. It's almost like they want to anger every segment of their fan base.

Not to mention ticking off the four Scarlet Queen shippers! (No, that's not Will and Regina!)

Edited March 14, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[ABitOFluff]

I was just thinking, we haven't seen Rumple in any BTS pictures recently, have we? Where the heck is he? The last I recall, he was stalking Belle and WIll as they walked down the street holding hands.

Edited March 14, 2015 by ABitOFluff

[retrograde]

I was just thinking, we haven't seen Rumple in any BTS pictures recently, have we? Where the heck is he? The last I recall, he was stalking Belle and WIll as they walked down the street holding hands.

That was 4.19, so not actually that long ago. 

[ABitOFluff]

That was 4.19, so not actually that long ago.

Huh, I guess not. It just leaves this incomplete picture in my head. "Ooh, what's the Dark One going to do next? Oh just making sad faces outside the pawn shop." That's the pitfall of looking at spoilery pictures. I know there are studio scenes, and we don't know what all is going on, so maybe he's in my imagined CGI/green screen alternate reality by now.

[Serena]

Didn't Rumple lock Belle out of the shop in 420? Diabolical.

[worryfaraway]

The finale will be Operation Mongoose part 2. That'll be Ep 22.

Am I wrong or there will be Ep 23 since the 2-hour of the Frozen arc isn't considered two eps?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1843230/episodes

[sharky]

You're right, but the studio numbering and ours are off since they shoehorned that extra hour into the schedule.

As for Gold, I want to say that Robert has something in his contract that gives him extra time off at the holidays that they may have to work around storywise. Last season, it was the Pan death/Zelena abduction. This year maybe the Hook body switch, which is why I'm thinking that may be a likely scenario.

[HoodlumSheep]

Not to mention ticking off the four Scarlet Queen shippers!

I'm one of those four! I've actually stopped watching live (I don't count anyways), and am actually falling behind on the eps. I still keep track on what happens but the whole Scarlet Beauty thing was a step too far for me. I could of gotten behind an awkward/goofy kiss situation in where they manage to become besties, but that seems not to be the case. They seem to be actually dating.

Will Scarlet is officially dead to me.

And yes, I know Will tried to move on or something of that sort (by evidence of Silvermist, etc.) after the original breakup between him and Ana. But dude, really? You just spent a whole adventure fighting for true love! What the heck?! Ana deserves so much better after going through such a beautiful redemption arc, and it upsets me because i know they end up married in the end!

Ana is a precious cupcake that must protected at all costs!

Glad I got that off my chest!

And to stay on topic, Rumple's absence is sort of interesting. I wonder when he'll pop back up?

Not a fan of the last two episode titles.

Edited March 14, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple missing is interesting, but not really all that surprising since he is probably the one who does something that changes the timeline or whatever.  The last we've seen Rumple, I wanna say it was during the filming of 419 but I think it might have been 418 instead when he was walking with Peddler and there was also an instance where Belle and Will were walking hand in hand and he sees them.

 

Rumple hasn't shared his plans, we don't know what he wants for himself.  But after the second sneak peek and what Regina said the bad guys want as in they get their happy endings and the good guys pretty much get completely fucked over, I just wonder if that's not what we're getting, where everyone  gets to walk a mile in each others' shoes.  

 

You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel like this show is delving into Charmed territory.

[RadioGirl27]

Rumple hasn't shared his plans, we don't know what he wants for himself.  But after the second sneak peek and what Regina said the bad guys want as in they get their happy endings and the good guys pretty much get completely fucked over, I just wonder if that's not what we're getting, where everyone  gets to walk a mile in each others' shoes.  

Yeah, I think they are going there in the finale, with Rumple doing something that ends with the heroes being miserable and the villains, happy. But there is a big problem here that I'm pretty sure the writers would totally overlook: Regina is far from being a hero, and Hook, even if his redemption story has been way better written than Regina's, he was a villain until two days ago. And it seems that they are going to redeem Mal, so if this happens and she does something good before the finale, would she be considered a hero or a villain? This is going to be a big mess.

Edited March 14, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[ParadoxLost]

This year maybe the Hook body switch, which is why I'm thinking that may be a likely scenario.

 

Do you hear that?  Its the shrieking in my head.  I really either need to stay completely unspoiled or stop with this random spoilage and go full in.  So, this is what I need since I'm not up to date.

 

Please tell me that there is no chance that Rumpel swaps bodies with Hook so Rumpel is (sort of) on screen to accommodate an actor vacation.  Because you know what's worse that Hook having romantic moments with Emma while under Rumpel's control?  Well do you?  That would be Rumpel taking up residence in Hooks body and having romantic moments with Emma.  The way this show rolls, CaptainSwan's first time would be a threesome where Hook is only a meat suit and they'd tell us it wasn't rape.  Actually, they'd tell is it wasn't two rapes.

Edited March 14, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[HoodlumSheep]

Yeah, I think they are going there in the finale, with Rumple doing something that ends with the heroes being miserable and the villains, happy. But there is a big problem here that I'm pretty sure the writers would totally overlook: Regina is far from being a hero, and Hook, even if his redemption story has been way better written than Regina's, he was a villain until two days ago. And it seems that they are going to redeem Mal, so if this happens and she does something good before the finale, would she be considered a hero or a villain? This is going to be a big mess.

I too have that same question about Regina and Killy. Would they go by what's in the book, therefore Regina would get her happy ending? But where would that leave Hook? Are any of his stories beside the 3b finale adventure in the book? so would he have "hero" status?

Maybe Regina will get her happy ending, but end up feeling miserable because she finds out she likes the "messy" reality better?

Who knows.

[YaddaYadda]

Regina is far from being a hero, and Hook, even if his redemption story has been way better written than Regina's, he was a villain until two days ago.

 

They're neutral?  They've walked both sides already, so they would be neither villain nor heroes?

[ParadoxLost]

Yeah, I think they are going there in the finale, with Rumple doing something that ends with the heroes being miserable and the villains, happy.

 

I think the issue here is that we are buying into what Rumpel has told the other villains to get them to join forces, that they want to turn the table and give the villains happy endings and everyone else miserable lives.  Most of the villains are going to have mutually exclusive happy endings that can't coexist.  So I think Rumpel is repeating the pattern of teaming up with the Evil trio with the intent of betraying them in the end to get his happy ending.

 

So I think what we'll see is that whatever villain gets their happy ending (and its a toss up between Regina and Rumpel...I'm betting they stop Rumpel and Regina does a last minute betrayal), everyone else will see their life reform around that and this is what the finale will be about...What is the EF like if at the pivotal moment, the villain won and get the thing that they thought would make them happy?  My crystal ball says that James lives and Snow marries him not Charming.

Edited March 14, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[RadioGirl27]

They're neutral?  They've walked both sides already, so they would be neither villain nor heroes?

 

Someone needs to know that the new reality is wrong, so maybe it's Hook and Regina because both of them are neither heroes, not villains, and they have to work together to rectify the timeline. If it can't be Hook and Emma, I prefer Hook and Regina than Regina and Emma.

 

So I think what we'll see is that whatever villain gets their happy ending (and its a toss up between Regina and Rumpel...I'm betting they stop Rumpel and Regina does a last minute betrayal), everyone else will see their life reform around that and this is what the finale will be about...What is the EF like if at the pivotal moment, the villain won and get the thing that they thought would make them happy?  My crystal ball says that James lives and Snow marries him not Charming.

But the thing is that Regina got her happy ending in EF when she enacted the curse.

 

Edit: Can we consider this pic a spoiler? It's from yesterday and it shows the Leaf Lady with Sean in his EF outfit.

Edited March 14, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[myril]

But the thing is that Regina got her happy ending in EF when she enacted the curse.

 

 

Regina wanted to believe, that her happy ending would come with that, a happy ending defined solely by other people suffering instead of herself (fostered by Rumple's insinuations) . That "happy ending" was not about her being in a good place but about putting everybody else in as  bad a place she believed had been in. It was an illusion of happiness and all about making everybody else feel miserable. In fairy tale lore of course something like that couldn't really work and only leave her unsatisfied (the hole in her heart). Possible the same might kinda happen now, the villains getting an illusion of happy ending, aka they thriving on everyone else getting the bad end for a change, but that won't  give them any kind of good, better world for them either. Back to square one or history repeating itself. Another lesson in, you won't find your own happiness by making other people unhappy, or you can't get happiness without wishing happiness for others as much.

Edited March 14, 2015 by katusch

[Shanna Marie]

Please tell me that there is no chance that Rumpel swaps bodies with Hook so Rumpel is (sort of) on screen to accommodate an actor vacation.  Because you know what's worse that Hook having romantic moments with Emma while under Rumpel's control?  Well do you?  That would be Rumpel taking up residence in Hooks body and having romantic moments with Emma.

From the spoiler photos we've seen and the suggestions that led to this theory, Rumple wouldn't become Hook full-time. I'd think he'd avoid Emma for fear of detection. If it's true at all, it seems mostly aimed at getting Belle's trust to get the dagger back (and maybe messing up her date with Will), not just going around and being Hook for grins. And I don't think it would be him actually using Hook's body, but rather glamoring himself to look like Hook while the real Hook is elsewhere.

 

You do have to wonder how the outcomes for the other villains affect Regina's theory. Before Rumple was banished, she seemed to believe that Rumple had his happy ending, so I guess him being banished verified her theory that villains don't get happy endings. But what does she think about Hook? He has a romantic partner, which is the only thing missing from her life to keep it from being perfect, so maybe she thinks he has a happy ending, but at the same time, he had to give everything up to get that partner, so is that happy? Regina could possibly have had Robin if she'd been willing to leave town to go with him, but that would have meant giving up her home, her material possessions and Henry. That's why the problem with this plot keeps coming back to what her definition of happy ending really is and what she expects to get from the Author if she ever does find him.

[YaddaYadda]

I think this undercover stuff last like two episodes if not less than that.  I can't say for certain which episode they were filming in Stevetson, but you had Maleficent with Cruella and Ursula and Rumple and Regina with the sheet that Henry finds in August's things about the Author's door, and I think Regina faints or something like that.

 

Emma is only doing this to make sure Regina doesn't get carried away and start crushing hearts, cursing entire realms etc. again.

 

I can see Emma wanting to have Regina's back because Henry.

[RadioGirl27]

I watched sneak peek #2 again and I've just decided that the only way to interpret Emma wanting to go undercover with Regina without butchering her character is if Emma is only doing this to make sure Regina doesn't get carried away and start crushing hearts, cursing entire realms etc. again. Because we all know that Regina has the self-control of a two-year-old and she needs someone to supervise her so she doesn't fall prey to the peer pressure of her new Evil Clique. Plus Emma actually knows how to go undercover without literally becoming her cover. If only the writers saw it the same way...

I hope we have a scene where Emma explains her reasons to help Regina with something different from "she is my friend and I don't want her to die", but I'm worried that tonight episode is going to be the definitive character assassination of Emma.

I can see Emma wanting to have Regina's back because Henry.

But Henry is the reason why Emma shouldn't be doing this (or going in a road trip outside Storybrooke with Regina). If something happens to them, the kid is left alone, with only the Charmings and Hook (non-magical people) to pretect him from magical enemies.