Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

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Hook was very effective given how completely out gunned he was by everyone around him. 

The man who outran a curse by himself, sailed a ship by himself, found a magic bean by himself, and traveled across different worlds by himself to find Emma has been reduced to a 1-minute comedic clown who gets knocked out by Emma. Yay character progression?

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Could it be that Emma didn't want to hurt wish!Hook feelings by telling him too much about how loved he is in the 'real'world and how much better his life turned out once he gave up revenge?

 

That's just giving A&E an excuse. As someone who actually cares about these characters and likes to get inside their minds, this episode 100% should have had a scene somewhat resembling that. At the very least, we needed to see Emma attempting to work with Old Hook for longer than 30 seconds. (@XrystalPond, how long would you say Old Hook is on screen for? Does it even break the 60-second mark?)

Edited February 3, 2017 by Curio

[Souris]

2 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Could it be that Emma didn't want to hurt wish!Hook feelings by telling him too much about how loved he is in the 'real'world and how much better his life turned out once he gave up revenge? 

The fact is, we'll never know. People will have to twist it themselves to make it palatable to their own self, because the writing gave no thought to anything beyond "Hahahaha, fat drunk old Hook is funny, hahahahaha!"

[PixiePaws1]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

The man who outran a curse by himself, sailed a ship by himself, found a magic bean by himself, and traveled across different worlds by himself to find Emma has been reduced to a 1-minute comedic clown who gets knocked out by Emma. Yay character progression?

You summed it up beautifully...and it makes me cry....

[KAOS Agent]

This is one of my favorite pieces of the thoughts coming out about the episode;

"I feel like the Emma/Gideon fight was resolved with about the same time, attention, and care as the “Emma returns Killian’s heart” bit in 4x11."

So basically, Emma's entire storyline from 6A, which was pretty much backburner anyway, is wrapped up with a 22 second scene and the bad guy walks away because we need another half season of this nothing storyline for Emma. 

[RadioGirl27]

2 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Could it be that Emma didn't want to hurt wish!Hook feelings by telling him too much about how loved he is in the 'real'world and how much better his life turned out once he gave up revenge? (Yes...i know about the awful things but when Emma actually is at home and not on the season's stipulated SQ pandering side trip...Killian has his Emma in their home).

Nah, she was just thinking how hot August was in his EF outfit, and that she better kept her doors open in case she was stuck there. 

This two episodes have been really damaging for Emma. She has came across as someone shallow who only cares about Hook if he is hot.

2 hours ago, Curio said:

The man who outran a curse by himself, sailed a ship by himself, found a magic bean by himself, and traveled across different worlds by himself to find Emma has been reduced to a 1-minute comedic clown who gets knocked out by Emma. Yay character progression?

I want to cry ???

53 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

This is one of my favorite pieces of the thoughts coming out about the episode;

"I feel like the Emma/Gideon fight was resolved with about the same time, attention, and care as the “Emma returns Killian’s heart” bit in 4x11."

So basically, Emma's entire storyline from 6A, which was pretty much backburner anyway, is wrapped up with a 22 second scene and the bad guy walks away because we need another half season of this nothing storyline for Emma. 

I wish it has been resolved. But we know for filming spoilers that Emma is going to spend a lot of time with Gideon. More than with her sort of roommate, that for sure.

[PixiePaws1]

Well....looks i don't need to start watching 6b until maybe 6x17.... the meagre offerings for CS fans, i can watch on YouTube.

[Rumsy4]

It's bizarre Emma and Regina have no qualms leaving fake!Henry behind, but resolve to take fake!Robin back with them??

I hope to goodness this storyline doesn't involve any existential angst on the part of Robin on whether he has a soul or not. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Rumsy4

[sharky]

Because they already have a Henry in Storybrooke. They don't have a Robin there though. So that's just more of the same. The wish realm is just spare parts. 

[Curio]

22 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

Plus there is that won't time again. It took Geppeto weeks to build the original wardrobe. Did it only take August hours? 

What made Emma decide to seek out August in the first place? Was it one of those awkward exposition dialogue scenes where she says out loud, "If only we had a magical wardrobe to send us back. Oh wait, my BFF August makes those! Well, actually, his father is the real woodworker, but whatever I want to see August again because plot." Or does she just happen to run into him and that's how she comes up with the idea? How do they figure out the wardrobe is gone? How do they replicate it? Are they searching for enchanted wood? How does a magic chisel play into all of this?

Sorry for all the questions. I just want the details right so I can start making an "alternative facts" version of this episode in my head where Emma teams up with Old Hook instead to replicate the wardrobe using the enchanted wood from the Jolly Roger.

[Kktjones]

I've seen several people mention that the Wish World was only needed to bring back Robin. I don't get this thinking at all. He's not old in the WW and was likely conjured up by David's wish that Regina "get what she deserves." Couldn't this alt version of Robin just as easily have appeared in SB? I can't figure out any purpose for the WW at all. Emma had already embraced her role as Savior, so that wasn't it either. It was just a complete waste of 2 episodes...

ETA: Upon further thinking, is it so that she has somewhere to send him to when she realizes she can't keep him? Okay, I've put way too much thought into trying to make sense of this. Back to looking at pretty pictures of Colin & Jen.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Kktjones

[daxx]

13 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

I've seen several people mention that the Wish World was only needed to bring back Robin. I don't get this thinking at all. He's not old in the WW and was likely conjured up by David's wish that Regina "get what she deserves." Couldn't this alt version of Robin just as easily have appeared in SB? I can't figure out any purpose for the WW at all. Emma had already embraced her role as Savior, so that wasn't it either. It was just a complete waste of 2 episodes...

A&E: people want a no curse story. That's cool.

A&E: Yeah but that would show how destructive Regina's curse was to everyone's lives and make her look bad.

A&E: Let's twist it so that everyone says wow great job on the curse Regina and not be sarcastic.

A&E: Ok, so Emma's this pampered princess and Hook is old, fat, drunk... (rubs hands together)

Edited February 3, 2017 by daxx

[tri4335]

Reading these spoilers proves that the only question that should've been asked was:

A & E why do you suck?

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, sharky said:

Because they already have a Henry in Storybrooke. They don't have a Robin there though. So that's just more of the same. The wish realm is just spare parts. 

Lol. Seems like it! 

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Sorry for all the questions. I just want the details right so I can start making an "alternative facts" version of this episode in my head where Emma teams up with Old Hook instead to replicate the wardrobe using the enchanted wood from the Jolly Roger.

I started writing one a while back, and am even more determined to complete it before the season starts. There have been a couple of other lovely WishRealm AUs I read. Why do fanfic writers consistently do so much better than the actual writers of this Show?? 

[sharky]

From a person on tumblr who was at the screening yesterday:

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There was absolutely NO feeling that Emma was downplaying her connection to Hook or was embarrassed of him at all!  Nonsense! That line didn’t even hit me like that at all. In fact, I took it as the “we” that was “sort of,” not the living together.  She was trying to explain her connection to this person (old hook) standing in front of them to August, why she knew this crazy character, and referring to Old Hook saying “we sort of live together” meaning I live with a very different version of this guy.  The “we” is sort of, because this is not her version of Hook. They are not the exact same person.

 

This makes sense and does make me feel better about the way this is being portrayed. She actually answers quite a few questions about the episode, and mentions that Emma/Regina fans are not going to be happy with this episode so at least we have that going for us.

[Souris]

12 hours ago, Souris said:

The fact is, we'll never know. People will have to twist it themselves to make it palatable to their own self.

Yep.

Just because one or two people didn't think it was problematic doesn't mean it's not problematic. I've also seen feedback from others who were there who did find it problematic. So it's a personal reaction, not a universal one.

And if I remember correctly, that person on Tumblr never gets upset at anything on the show, so it's best to take into account a person's proclivities when judging their reactions -- that goes for anybody's reaction! Seems like a lot of reading into the situation that isn't actually presented in the writing, based on other descriptions I've seen. Again, YMMV obviously.

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I did not take her comments about him laying off the rum to be all about his size. He was clumsy and clearly intoxicated with this plan to rescue her for money.

It wasn't just rum. It was rum and desserts she wanted him to lay off of.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Souris

[Kktjones]

43 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

She he goes to find him again and asks about it. he says his father read him the ugly duckling and told him to believe in himself. She says if he believes in himself that he can carve the tree. He agrees to try again. 

Thank you so much @Xrystalpond for your spoilers about the ep. I was already pretty sure I didn't want to watch it, but this part about August being the hero in both worlds just tipped me over the edge. So between ditching baby Emma & convincing Neal to send her to jail (and running off with her money), he gave her the inspiration to be who she is (and helped her name herself)? Sorry, that's just too much for me.

Also, did I totally imagine it or didn't Emma explain that the name Swan came from a family that adopted her until she was like three when they had their own baby and sent her back? Maybe she just told the story of the family and we all assumed they were the Swans? Whatever... 

[Curio]

Thanks for the detailed recap, @XrystalPond! I can visualize it in my head a lot better now.

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I did not take her comments about him laying off the rum to be all about his size. He was clumsy and clearly intoxicated with this plan to rescue her for money.

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It wasn't just rum. It was rum and desserts she wanted him to lay off of.

Emma has already seen Hook in an incredibly intoxicated state when she intentionally got him black out drunk in the Season 3 finale. He was tripping over his feet and clearly not fully in control of his actions, but because he looked the same as normal young Hook that level of intoxication was acceptable to Emma, but when he looks older and disheveled suddenly it's cause for concern. If Emma was genuinely concerned about Hook's alcoholism, you'd think she would have been dropping hints about it for the past few seasons, but she's actually been encouraging his drinking behavior. She requests swigs of his rum during the day (Season 4), offers him rum as the Dark One while saying "the fastest way to a pirate's heart is through his liver" (Season 5), and offers to make him hot buttered rum (Season 6). And then there are all the times they've been shown drinking together at Granny's throughout the seasons.

I guess Emma could be the type of person where she only thinks in the "now" and it doesn't hit her how all that drinking could catch up with a person later in life, and it took seeing it in person for that to register in her brain. I just hope it doesn't turn into a situation where she takes Hook's flask away from him all the time now. (The dude has been drinking for centuries, he's going to need to wean off slowly.) Also, Emma needs to limit her drinking too if she's going to force her boyfriend to limit his drinking as well. Oh well, I doubt this will be played as anything serious and there will be one scene in the future where Emma gives Hook a knowing look and he grabs a water bottle instead of his flask and that will be that.

[superloislane]

14 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

Also, did I totally imagine it or didn't Emma explain that the name Swan came from a family that adopted her until she was like three when they had their own baby and sent her back? Maybe she just told the story of the family and we all assumed they were the Swans? Whatever... 

That has never been stated on the show. I don't think there's been any mention of where she got her name from at all. I think JMo wrote something like that on Twitter though.

[sharky]

Well, I think the bigger issue in all this is it sounds like A&E aren't viewing the wish realm the same way many of us are. To us, what is going on there does have a connection or shows us a window to what is going on with the Storybrooke characters. But AE seem to be treating it as this funny whimsical place where the characters look the same but are really these crazy wacky versions that have no connection to Storybrooke because wish world! I don't think they're connecting the fact that these characters are connected despite the different realm thing -- or at least that fans connect them that way.

I don't mind August being the one who helps her in the wish realm. We have given people like Hook a pass because he has changed and become a better person. I think August has done the same. We may not have seen it as much but there have been moments when he has popped back up to assist the heroes. I feel like he's redeemed himself enough to be the one tasked to help emma. 

[KingOfHearts]

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I don't mind August being the one who helps her in the wish realm. We have given people like Hook a pass because he has changed and become a better person. I think August has done the same. We may not have seen it as much but there have been moments when he has popped back up to assist the heroes. I feel like he's redeemed himself enough to be the one tasked to help emma. 

August would be more likely to know how to help than Hook, imo. He has always been the designated exposition fairy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but could it be that Emma had the idea for the wardrobe first and went to August because of that? 

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But AE seem to be treating it as this funny whimsical place where the characters look the same but are really these crazy wacky versions that have no connection to Storybrooke because wish world!

That worked in Bizarro World, because the characters had been manipulated by Isaac. Of course it was going to be wonky. We knew that going in. But here, we've got an equally real reality that's structured like an alternate timeline. It may not be the writers' intent, but they're essentially saying Hook would be an old drunk if the curse had never been cast. Not everything lines up (most of it is arbitrary), but there's enough logic to make it seem more "real" than it should be.

Robin's the biggest offender. He is going to be treated as a real personality, for better or for worse, even if he's "fake". Even if he was wished up by Charming's wish, how the heck can genies create life but not resurrect the dead? That doesn't really fix anything. It just makes it more complicated. At least on Buffy, Evil!Willlow was a 100% real, not-artificial person from an alternate universe. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

But just like Bizarro World being the way it is because of Isaac, I feel this world is the way it is because of the Evil Queen. They're not saying Hook would be an old drunk if the curse wasn't cast. They're saying the Evil Queen would create an old drunk Hook because why should he be the scoundrel turned dashing hero in her wish world the way he is in Storybrooke? At least that's how I interpret it or Emma's OOC stuff in the first part would just be extra inexcusable. If you put the filter of "the EQ created this realm" then it looks a bit more calculated and less moronic. 

[RadioGirl27]

I don't know which was the writers intention with this AU, or even if they had one. But the truth is that they have destroyed Emma in the process.

[PixiePaws1]

Just the image of Emma groveling at Regina's feet and thanking her for killing her parents , and Emma getting stuck with MoronFire, completely soured the entire wish realm for me. I know Emma was thanking Regina for 'waking her up' but that's not how it played for me.

 I found it thoroughly disgusting and have no interest in assaulting my eyes further by watching pt2 of that rubbish until CS are properly reunited in SB. 

Regina can keep fake Robin, maybe for 5 seconds she'll stop whinging (to all the people she's tried to murder) about hard it's been for her...

[KingOfHearts]

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6x18 title: "Where Bluebirds Fly"

You've got to be kidding... is this another Ruby/Dorothy/Third Wheel episode? Actually, it sounds possibly like Zelena's sendoff. There's a song with the same title, but has no comprehensible lyrics. I'm guessing it's Oz related since "bluebirds fly" is part of the Somewhere Over the Rainbow lyrics.

It's partially written by Brigette Hales, who does a lot of Zelena's stuff.

Edited February 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

36 minutes ago, sharky said:

But just like Bizarro World being the way it is because of Isaac, I feel this world is the way it is because of the Evil Queen. They're not saying Hook would be an old drunk if the curse wasn't cast. They're saying the Evil Queen would create an old drunk Hook because why should he be the scoundrel turned dashing hero in her wish world the way he is in Storybrooke? At least that's how I interpret it or Emma's OOC stuff in the first part would just be extra inexcusable. If you put the filter of "the EQ created this realm" then it looks a bit more calculated and less moronic. 

I don't think they clearly established the actual why's of why the realm was constructed how it was or who made the "rules" of how the characters behaved or were presented. The EQ wasn't shown developing the wish or saying, "OK, Emma's a weak ninny and Hook is an old, fat drunk." It's all nebulous and poorly thought out as well as poorly explained, like everything they do. Adam also said it was meant to "punish" Emma for daring to have a stray thought about not wanting to be the Savior. The writers couldn't even agree whether the wish realm was real or not. So I don't think we can say with certainty that the EQ "created" old drunk Hook. It was created because A&E are terrible, surface-only writers who think they're funny when they're really not and don't think characterization matters, especially if it would get in the way of a "cool" idea.

[KingOfHearts]

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The EQ wasn't shown developing the wish or saying, "OK, Emma's a weak ninny and Hook is an old, fat drunk." It's all nebulous and poorly thought out as well as poorly explained, like everything they do. Adam also said it was meant to "punish" Emma for daring to have a stray thought about not wanting to be the Savior. The writers couldn't even agree whether the wish realm was real or not. So I don't think we can say with certainty that the EQ "created" old drunk Hook. It was created because A&E are terrible, surface-only writers who think they're funny when they're really not and don't think characterization matters, especially if it would get in the way of a "cool" idea.

If the wish realm is meant to be dictated by the Evil Queen's desires, that needs to be directly implied somewhere. One of the characters needs to say it. We need something beyond "everything is fake".

Let's not forget - EQ wished for Emma's wish to be granted, not hers.

Edited February 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

I think "Where Bluebirds Fly" is the musical episode.

Also, I don't have any problem with the "we kind of live together" line since it's clearly said about her and Old Hook, as in how she knows him.  The "kind of" is because she doesn't actually live with Old Hook, she lives with the real Hook.  All the other spoilers, OTOH...yeah, they predictably suck.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Mathius

[Souris]

13 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If the wish realm is meant to be dictated by the Evil Queen's desires, that needs to be directly implied somewhere. One of the characters needs to say it. We need something beyond "everything is fake".

Let's not forget - EQ wished for Emma's wish to be granted, not hers.

Yep, yep, yep. But they don't directly imply it. It's hard to know whether the nebulousness is deliberate because they: 1) are too lazy to make it clear; 2) want to keep it that way in trying to appease various fandoms; or 3) are simply inept.

I hope it's not Dorothy again. I don't know that I believe they'd be sending off Zelena back to Oz. I mean, it's possible, it would save them a bit of money for S7, and they don't seem to know what the heck to do with her. 

It seems too early for the musical ep because this Once composer has heard only some of the songs.

[Curio]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

I don't mind August being the one who helps her in the wish realm. We have given people like Hook a pass because he has changed and become a better person. I think August has done the same. We may not have seen it as much but there have been moments when he has popped back up to assist the heroes. I feel like he's redeemed himself enough to be the one tasked to help emma. 

I don't mind August helping in theory, but it's the fact that this is the spring premiere so it's supposed to be a big event episode, and instead of having Emma work with one of the regular cast members to get back home, she's paired off with a random side character who hasn't been seen since Season 4. And apparently this side character who hasn't been seen since Season 4 is the one who ultimately gets through to Emma about embracing her future, not anyone in her immediate family. It's just a random pairing for such an integral episode that bothers me. If this was Season 1 or 2 it would be a different story, but the writers have all but dropped his character from the show at this point. If this was a filler episode during the middle of an arc, then whatever. But the spring premiere? I don't passionately love or hate August to any degree, I guess I'm mostly bored by him and don't need him playing such a pivotal role in an important episode like this.

I should probably just be thankful this isn't yet another Emma/Regina A&E episode. I'm always crying out for unique character combinations, so I'll give the writers kudos for that.

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

August would be more likely to know how to help than Hook, imo. He has always been the designated exposition fairy. 

I somewhat disagree. Being the designated exposition fairy doesn't necessarily mean he's good at creating portals. I mean, compare his realm-hopping resume to Hook's realm-hopping resume:

1. Hook helped find the compass at the top of the beanstalk and found the dried up bean and realm-hopped from the Enchanted Forest to Storybrooke.
2. Hook used slight of hand to steal the magic bean from Emma, but then used the magic bean to allow everyone to realm-hop to Neverland.
3. Hook somehow outran a curse, traded his ship for Emma, and found a realm-hopping magic bean to find her in New York.
4. Hook realm-hopped with Emma to the past and motivated her to believe in her magic, which helped activate the Black Fairy's wand and created a portal back to Storybrooke.
5. Hook helped find the portal to Arendelle with Gold which was used to send Elsa & Co. back home.
6. Hook worked with Ursula to create a portal to bring the Jolly Roger back to Storybrooke.
7. Even when he was a cowardly deckhand, Hook helped Emma escape from the tower and sacrificed himself so that she could find a way back home.
8. Hook was the only one actively freaking out when Emma became the Dark One and convinced everyone to get off their asses and find a way to create a portal to reach her in Camelot.
9. As a Dark One, Hook made his own Dark Curse and sent everyone back to Storybrooke.
10. Apparently, he's realm-hopped from the Enchanted Forest to Wonderland and negotiated with Pan to leave Neverland on numerous occasions.

Like, that's a pretty impressive realm-hopping resume. (It's also why I call B.S. on Hook not traveling with Regina to find Emma in the Wish Realm.) How many times has August been directly involved with creating portals? 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but could it be that Emma had the idea for the wardrobe first and went to August because of that?

Based on @XrystalPond's recap, I think that's what happens.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Curio

[orza]

35 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm guessing it's Oz related since "bluebirds fly" is part of the Somewhere Over the Rainbow lyrics.

It's partially written by Brigette Hales, who does a lot of Zelena's stuff.

I suppose this is the episode she was crying over and carrying on about on Twitter a little while ago. Perhaps it is a network-mandated Zelena send-off.

[Shanna Marie]

36 minutes ago, Souris said:

It was created because A&E are terrible, surface-only writers who think they're funny when they're really not and don't think characterization matters, especially if it would get in the way of a "cool" idea.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. There's no logic to any of it, no thought process to figure out how it would work, just, "wouldn't it be funny if Hook was old?" Because, really, there's no reason for him to be old if Rumple is still alive. He went to Neverland so he could stay alive long enough to find a way to kill the immortal Dark One. The curse was part of his plan, once he learned about it. If it hadn't been for the curse, would he have stayed in the Enchanted Forest, or would he have gone back to Neverland? (They've never outright stated how/when he came back for good, if he even planned to come back for good. He was just really cagey about how he got away, possibly because he didn't really. He just went on an errand for Pan and didn't come back, something that wouldn't have been an option for the Nevengers.) I don't really buy that Rumple just being imprisoned would satisfy him enough that he'd give up revenge. If he'd actually killed Rumple, then I could see him slipping into an alcoholic depression when he realized it didn't mean anything, didn't help, and without the influence of Emma and the others to remind him to turn himself around. I guess maybe in this world it could have worked out the way it did in the real world, if he thought he'd defeated Rumple, realized it was meaningless, and only later learned that the Charmings had spared him. But I figure just in typing this paragraph I've put more thought into it than the writers did. They probably stopped at the point of "wouldn't it be funny if Hook was old and gross?"

[Curio]

56 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Actually, it sounds possibly like Zelena's sendoff. 

Agreed. Was Zelena featured at all in the spring premiere? Does she have any significant plot in 6B?

43 minutes ago, Mathius said:

I think "Where Bluebirds Fly" is the musical episode.

It might be too early for the musical episode because they haven't completed the music for it yet. I'm still leaning towards a musical finale.

[Shanna Marie]

I'd be okay with a Zelena send-off, but if we get yet another one-off episode about Dorothy, we're getting into ridiculous territory. Was anyone clamoring for more about her? Wasn't that episode fairly universally despised? It was the one thing that the CS and SQ factions agreed about. If they're trying to save the series, or if this is possibly the last season, spending half a second on Dorothy seems like a really dumb move because it's not a way to shore up the viewership or answer any unanswered questions about the main characters.

[RadioGirl27]

1 minute ago, RadioGirl27 said:

Low quality video of Emma and Hook reunion in Storybrooke.

This is even worse than I thought, and I thought it was going to be terrible.

[pezgirl7]

2 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

This is even worse than I thought, and I thought it was going to be terrible.

What was so horrible about it? I thought it was fun. Not everything on this show has to be some epic, shakespearean act. Emma seems to be very relieved to be back in the real world with her loved ones, and doesn't seem to be that concerned about Hook's future weight. She only made the water comment after Robin made his comment. Hook's interest in his alternate self made sense, since he's a bit egotistical. The Hook-Robin thing reminds me a bit of Back to the Future, when Marty arrives back home, and is surprised to see his mom looking so different.

[KingOfHearts]

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This is even worse than I thought, and I thought it was going to be terrible.

After the clip ends...

Emma: "Okay guys, sorry to cut this short, but uh... Regina and I have a drinking date to get to."
Hook: "Wait? Aren't you going to tell me about me in this other world?"
Regina: "Hey guyliner - mind showing Robin to a room at Granny's?"

*Regina and Emma walk away with arms around each other*

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What was so horrible about it? I thought it was fun. Not everything on this show has to be some epic, shakespearean act. Emma seems to be very relieved to be back in the real world with her loved ones, and doesn't seem to be that concerned about Hook's future weight. She only made the water comment after Robin made his comment. Hook's interest in his alternate self made sense, since he's a bit egotistical. The Hook-Robin thing reminds me a bit of Back to the Future, when Marty arrives back home, and is surprised to see his mom looking so different.

Joking aside, I thought it was fine and even kind of funny. Regina actually complimented Emma. Imagine that.

I'm starting to think we're all going to want to keep Robin, since he has much more of a spine now. He's a more entertaining version of his usual self, much like the Evil Queen. We hate Regina, but the Evil Queen can still be a lot of fun. This looks to be like similar circumstances. I'm already hoping EQ and Robin can ride off into the sunset.

Edited February 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

I don't think alcoholism is something to make fun of and, as someone with some weigh problems, I'm never going to find fat shaming funny, but maybe it's just me.

[Curio]

The video isn't too bad, I'm more shocked how quick it all is. Like, can we take a breather and let the denouement of Emma's huge Savior arc chill for longer than a minute?

[pezgirl7]

25 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

I don't think alcoholism is something to make fun of and, as someone with some weigh problems, I'm never going to find fat shaming funny, but maybe it's just me.

I see your viewpoint. Mine is that I don't mind jokes about serious topics, unless it's done in a mean spirited way to shame a person, which I don't think this was.

[Souris]

7 minutes ago, Curio said:

The video isn't too bad, I'm more shocked how quick it all is. Like, can we take a breather and let the denouement of Emma's huge Savior arc chill for longer than a minute?

Nope. No breathers for anything, ever.

I still think Emma is going to die or "die" this season. Then she will no longer be the Savior and it'll apparently transfer to somebody else. Probably Regina, knowing this show. I think it would be much nicer if the Savior mantle transferred to everybody, so they all work to save people -- we all have the power to be a Savior within us, etc., etc.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

4 minutes ago, Souris said:

No breathers for anything, ever.

I guess they overslept the day they discussed pacing in whatever writing classes they ever took (if they ever took any).

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know about the whole fat shaming since one of the two people who wrote it is the furthest thing from being a svelte man, who might even get told by his wife to lay off the good stuff. I was more offended by Regina comment to MM about Hagen Daaz when she was pregnant.

I'm just going to go with Colin's interpretation about wish realm Hook thinking he's all that when he wasn't all that anymore. 

I think the clearest thing about all of this is that the writers had one goal in mind, and that was to bring Robin back, and nothing else mattered. 

That universe is completely warped.

Snowing were killed, Hook was a fool, Belle was dead. Poor Belle was a pack of bones because she starved to death. I imagine she was never freed from her cell? Belle collateral damage because of this game Regina and Rumple were playing. 

[Curio]

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Snowing were killed, Hook was a fool, Belle was dead. 

But according to Regina, everyone was better off without her in that realm...

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

But according to Regina, everyone was better off without her in that realm...

Thank goodness she cast that curse! Otherwise they'd all be miserable.

I find it kind of disturbing that Belle's alternative to being with Rumple was death. It's like they're trying to say Rumpbelle and Regina saved her life, and she should be grateful for that.

Edited February 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

8 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

I would not say evil Snow was flattering in the AU world. However, that allowed Ginny to shine in a new way. This does the same for Colin. Normally his character is brooding and serious. So it is a brief change of pace.

I'm really excited to see Colin portray Old Hook. If anything, I'd say my biggest beef is that the writers didn't use him enough. Why was he only used in the episode for 2 minutes as a cameo when it seems like Colin had a blast playing him and the audience really enjoyed it? Why can't we have nice things?

[YaddaYadda]

24 minutes ago, Curio said:

But according to Regina, everyone was better off without her in that realm...

Of course she would make this about her.

The way I'm seeing this is that the people she doesn't like or barely tolerates ended up with the raw end of the deal. 

Robin never married Marian because she died, that means that Roland was never born, which I'm assuming suits her personal needs just fine. But what about Robin? He is like Hook in that sense, he lost his purpose and his sense of direction. This version of Robin steals from everyone for his own personal gain. 

This was the first line from the press release;

Quote

REGINA EXPLORES WHAT ROBIN’S LIFE IS LIKE WITHOUT HER

Of course she makes this about her, when in truth, it's really about who Robin didn't have in his life, Marian. She is as much part of the Robin Hood legend as Robin himself.

But it's Regina, so it's always about her.

[Souris]

37 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't know about the whole fat shaming since one of the two people who wrote it is the furthest thing from being a svelte man, who might even get told by his wife to lay off the good stuff. I was more offended by Regina comment to MM about Hagen Daaz when she was pregnant.

You'd think Adam would be a little more aware of fat shaming given, as you say, he's not exactly svelte. That comment to MM was really bad, especially given that it was said to a woman who was pregnant in real life at the time and who had been subjected to some ugly fat shaming online.

This whole thing makes me think back to that link somebody posted here about A&E insisting they're comedy writers. Yeah, not so much based on the "comedy" they've included in Once. Their humor seems to run to personal insults, which I almost never find funny.

[Curio]

Yeah, comedy really isn't A&E's forte, even though the show they've set up and the characters they've created are just begging to be used for comedy. But even the other writers seem to struggle with how to incorporate comedy into the show, like the Shattered Sight spell or the Evil Queen's monologues. Maybe they just don't have a lot of good comedy writers on the staff.

[Kktjones]

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Emma goes and finds August typing away in a garage so as not to disturb his dad. She asks if that was him who confronted her when she was a kid. He admits it was and says he was there a few times in her young life. 

It seems that I'm alone in my disdain of August, but this sounds like such a major retcon.

Also, did Emma go see him alone? So after being away from Hook & her family, and with her would-be killer on the loose, she just ditches everyone to head over to August's house and say 'hey'? Just UGH.

[Rumsy4]

51 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

She was fighting to get back to the real him, the real Henry, and her living parents. 

I get that having the original versions back home gives Emma a different perspective. And yet, it seems ridiculous to me that she was so ready to believe that the wishverse copies were "fake". Even in Sci-Fi movies/shows/books, it's easy to develop empathy towards robots and start wondering if they have feelings and souls, etc.. It's unconvincing to imagine Emma not developing empathy towards people who look like real people--and people she actually knows and loves, to boot. So, overall, Emma's reactions to people in the WishWorld seems idiotic to me. Afterall, she is abandoning a version of Henry who lost not just his grandparents to murder, but is also going to believe that his mother was kidnapped by the Evil Queen. What exactly does she think it going to happen to Henry after she leaves? How do she and Regina know these copies are "fakes", but Robin is not? Do they think they have no souls? Do they assume the WW will disappear after a while? None of this makes a lick of sense.