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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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I'm not sure what Emma sharing her secret is supposed to do. Are they all going to just walk off and let her die because Emma chose to work through her problems with a therapist? This is the villain's dastardly plan? 

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Next week looks like aimless questing... you know those episodes where the characters go after a random MacGuffin only for it not to affect the plot all that much? Aladdin and Jasmine go search for [insert-shiny-thing-here] in the Cave of Wonders, and Team Hero goes after [insert-pointless-clue-here]. Meanwhile, EQ chats it up with Zelena and turns out to be a better sister than Regina.

I am, however, digging EQ's costume.

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In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings and forces Emma to reveal her secret in an effort to divide the family.

I personally think they didn't word this clearly and its supposed to be this:

In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings in an effort to divide the family and forces Emma to reveal her secret.

Basically the continuation of the 'who killed Charming's Dad" storyline with Hook as the culprit and Emma is forced confess to get the family to reconcile  because she needs/wants family unity because of her impending death.

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Camera One wrote this in the All Seasons Thread on Monday regarding the conversation between Snow and her teacher's aide (Jasmine) and I'm responding here because of the Aladdin savior story line, which is a spoiler:

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Many years ago, the kingdom I come from came under attack by a powerful menace.  The only one in any position who could save us was the princess, but she never fully embraced who she was, what a hero she could be.  And as a result, our kingdom was lost.  And I know such intimate details because hint wink hint wink..."

What if we've been wrong and Emma's story is only mirroring Aladdin's on the surface but to really beat the EQ she needs to mirror Jasmine's story and embrace her inner princess. That is one side of Emma's character that we've not seen. Her going all FT princess but for the five previous seasons she's already been the "street rat" but she really hasn't incorporated being a "princess" into her life. This would be the "twist" that is right up A & E's alley.

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What if we've been wrong and Emma's story is only mirroring Aladdin's on the surface but to really beat the EQ she needs to mirror Jasmine's story and embrace her inner princess. That is one side of Emma's character that we've not seen. Her going all FT princess but for the five previous seasons she's already been the "street rat" but she really hasn't incorporated being a "princess" into her life. This would be the "twist" that is right up A & E's alley.

 

With Robin and Nottingham returning and this speculation...the alternate universe scenario where the Dark Curse was never cast, Page 23 is real, and Emma grew up a princess is still a possibility.

Edited by Curio
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9 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I personally think they didn't word this clearly and its supposed to be this:

In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings in an effort to divide the family and forces Emma to reveal her secret.

Basically the continuation of the 'who killed Charming's Dad" storyline with Hook as the culprit and Emma is forced confess to get the family to reconcile  because she needs/wants family unity because of her impending death.

Oooh. I like this! It will be like the time Emma threw herself overboard in S3 to keep the Nevengers from killing each other. 

41 minutes ago, Curio said:

With Robin and Nottingham returning and this speculation...the alternate universe scenario where the Dark Curse was never cast, Page 23 is real, and Emma grew up a princess is still a possibility.

That's an interesting speculation. That could be the way EQ/Regina wishes Robin back with the genie's lamp. And I think it will be the EQ, because she may not care about potentially losing Henry in the alternative timeline. 

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59 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

 

That's an interesting speculation. That could be the way EQ/Regina wishes Robin back with the genie's lamp. And I think it will be the EQ, because she may not care about potentially losing Henry in the alternative timeline. 

This could very well be why the season feels so wonky, it's all about getting to the AU storyline.

Makes sense, so the evil queen perhaps needs to realize she misses Henry and her old life to undo the AU.

Yet another opportunity for Captain Swan to meet again for the first time? Curious what they will use to keep Hook the same age, or would they age up Killian and de-age Emma a bit.

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I don't see how Regina wishing Robin back into her life would lead to Emma going up as a princess. If Regina/Evil Queen wishes Robin back by undoing his death, it wouldn't change much because that would only affect the past few days or weeks in Storybrook, not the past in Fairy Tale land. If she uses a wish to go back and enter the tavern where she first saw Robin and his tattoo, Regina would have no beef with Snow anymore. Emma would not exist because Snow would remain a princess in the palace and not become a bandit on the run and not ambush Charming's coach and meet him. Charming would have married Abigail.

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34 minutes ago, daxx said:

Makes sense, so the evil queen perhaps needs to realize she misses Henry and her old life to undo the AU.

A&E did say in interviews that the EQ! loves Henry too. So, maybe this is where it comes into play. 

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Yet another opportunity for Captain Swan to meet again for the first time? Curious what they will use to keep Hook the same age, or would they age up Killian and de-age Emma a bit.

After reading Falling Slowly, I wouldn't mind an aged-up Killian, as long as the make-up isn't fake-looking. In any case, another AU where Killian and Emma meet would be fun, if nothing else.

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Emma would not exist because Snow would remain a princess in the palace and not become a bandit on the run and not ambush Charming's coach and meet him. Charming would have married Abigail.

Not necessarily. The arranged marriage could've been between King George and King Leopold's kingdoms. It probably wouldn't make Snow and Charming True Love anymore; there would be no fetal darkectomy, and Emma would not the savior nor have magic; but that's another opportunity for Regina to play savior in the AU, which would be right up A&E's ally. 

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I would like to think that Snow and Charming would still meet and be true loves, no matter what reality they're in, excepting Isaac's ridiculous fan fiction. 

Of course, in any true AU, it's likely "Emma" wouldn't really be Emma. Any changes to the timeline of when they conceived would really produce a totally different child, but this is a tv show. 

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I don't want a "no curse AU", because I know exactly how it would end: everybody would be miserable and when everything is back to normal they would thank Regina for the curse and all the pain and the countless deaths she has caused would be even less meaningful that they already are.

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I have no interest in seeing a princess Emma story. For me the fairy tale flashbacks are the best part of the show. That's why I watch (and for Robert Carlyle). A big part of my enjoyment is that there is no Emma in them. The other characters/actors get a chance to play a bigger role without Emma being shoehorned into the story. Emma as a character is all about her woman pain. Without that in a no-curse fairy tale story she would be unrecognizable as a character. She would probably be just as shallow and self-involved as princess Snow.

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Well, I will love to see a Emma Princess story she is the only character that still a little bit realistic and grounding in the real world. So. It will  be cute funny and bad ass. Everything that I love I mean the season 3 still one of the few episode I love to rewatch.

Not. Maybe I could see a final with a scenario like this or two episode the writer doesn't look to incline to do the type of fairytell world anymore. They got flask for the world jumping and consider storybook safe now.

Ho, I really hope that Emma will be more focus after the winter break because I cannot think a way to make lasting the double campy EQ be the only main story. So, I hope that the Saviors mythology is still going strong and there more mystery and potential. I like the Jasmine actress since galavant so if I certainly don't want any new regular I am fine with the Aladdin crew stay for all season. I will say a prayer

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23 minutes ago, orza said:

I have no interest in seeing a princess Emma story. For me the fairy tale flashbacks are the best part of the show. 

 

Wouldn't that be a plus, though? Instead of just a quick flashback, the fairy tale plot would be the current A-Story and would take up a majority of the season's time. Right now, the fairy tale flashbacks only account for a small portion of the time, and every character has to take turns getting the spotlight in the Enchanted Forest because of the character centric way the show is written. So instead of only getting one fairy tale flashback about a main character, we could be watching 11 episodes in a row of all the main characters in fairy tale world. 

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God no...Emma should be in the "real" world being a bad ass, not flouncing around CGI land in a fairy gown. (can you tell I hate princess stuff) If they ever go back to the EF I want someone with a brain to overthrow the Charmings as those two dimbulbs lost every chance they had to get rid of Regina..how can those two run a kingdom?

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3 minutes ago, Curio said:

Wouldn't that be a plus, though? Instead of just a quick flashback, the fairy tale plot would be the current A-Story and would take up a majority of the season's time. Right now, the fairy tale flashbacks only account for a small portion of the time, and every character has to take turns getting the spotlight in the Enchanted Forest because of the character centric way the show is written. So instead of only getting one fairy tale flashback about a main character, we could be watching 11 episodes in a row of all the main characters in fairy tale world. 

That would be great, but this show seems to have a crutch of splitting the show between the main characters in their current location and either flashbacks or some of the cast in another land. Even if they did a true AU, it's likely they would show us flashbacks of each AU character or possibly flashforwards of the characters in the prime timeline, so time would still be split. 

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I was reading the last couple of pages and really what is the most obvious I'd how the ending for the split same predicable. I mean it was like I was reading the spoiler for 4b.

Henry will help The EQ to be reabsorbed by Regina and she will play Savior again in some kind of alternative reality . It is sorry  too similar to 4b for A and E. I think they really want to surprise everyone this year. They really seems to want to keep all secretive even the outside location do not say a lot and more rarer this year

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I came up with this in the episode thread for "The Other Shoe," but have there been any rumors of George coming back? Because that's about the only explanation for a cover-up of a murder of a random peasant I could think of. Yeah, it's probably going to be Hook who killed David's father, for maximum emotional and relationship impact, but really, why would that be hidden? Why fake the cart accident or hide the stabbing if it was some pirate who killed him? Why wouldn't the family have been told that their husband/father got into a fight with a one-handed pirate, and he had stab wounds in his body? Or why wouldn't they have been told that he had stab wounds and wasn't just killed in the wreck? Someone had to know for Rumple to have it in his records, so it's not just that their kingdom's CSI team sucks and didn't notice the stab wounds or just saw the wreckage and assumed it was the wreck and didn't bother looking at any other evidence. About the only reason for hiding something like that would be if it was to cover up the involvement of someone higher up who wanted it kept quiet, and that brings us to George. Did Daddy Shepherd say something about the son he gave up or did he approach George while on that errand and demand that his son be given back, so that George felt the need to keep him quiet? Though I guess that wouldn't have a big emotional impact and tear the family apart or ruin the (still non-existent, unless we get 30 seconds of it this week) bromance with Hook, the way they've been talking about it, since David already hates George. I guess if he went on a vengeance tear with him that might cause family conflict.

I suppose George could have hired Hook as his assassin. There may be some gizmo or device or bit of info Hook needed to be able to take down Rumple that George had (or said he had), and so while on one of his cake runs for Pan, Hook got hired as an assassin to kill some random peasant, and he didn't ask questions because his revenge was his priority then (this is sounding strangely familiar ...), and only now does he realize it was David's father. Selling a kid might have been enough to set Hook off so he'd kill someone in a flash of fury, but that wouldn't have been covered up. An assassination ordered by the king would have been covered up, especially since any suspicion around that death might have led back to the truth about James. Though, unless the town where Daddy Shepherd went for supplies was a port town, I'm not sure how/why Hook would have been the one hired by George, unless maybe it was Rumple who pointed George in his direction with the fake lure of a surefire way to kill Rumple, but then if Rumple had known Hook was in the same world, would he have been getting him hired as an assassin instead of just killing him?

On the other hand, maybe we are going down the wrong path in thinking that David's father's death is the same secret that Colin and Josh mentioned as tearing them apart, and it's Hook's secret about Nemo that does it and the father's murder is something different. Then again, we were guessing David's father's death long before that was actually revealed as a plot point. And we haven't yet seen any sign of Hook and David growing closer, working together, or having a bromance, like they talked about. Right now, if they never spoke to each other again, we wouldn't notice a difference. They worked together to arrest Hyde in the premiere, and that's been it.

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41 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And we haven't yet seen any sign of Hook and David growing closer, working together, or having a bromance, like they talked about. Right now, if they never spoke to each other again, we wouldn't notice a difference. They worked together to arrest Hyde in the premiere, and that's been it.

But David just gave his okay to Hook and Emma being together, even though he hated the pirate in the beginning. That's an indication of epic off-screen bromance. ;-) In all seriousness, that sadly could well be the only lead up to Charming finding out that Hook killed his father.

15 minutes ago, Souris said:

With all the reshoots, who knows what they've changed or done away with. 

There was only the Hyde reshoots for the first episode. Nothing else was redone for other episodes, asfik.

Edited by Rumsy4
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I don't care about a David/Hook bromance. It seems like David is protective over Emma with the wrong people. I get it, he lost out on 28 years of her life and a teenage pregnancy.

It's like I get that David is now on his father's trail and feels bad about everything he missed out on with his father and is probably overcompensating with Emma, but yeesh!

Also, the script tease, looks like it's part of the secret that's coming out.

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I don't care about a David/Hook bromance. It seems like David is protective over Emma with the wrong people. I get it, he lost out on 28 years of her life and a teenage pregnancy.

It would be great if we got David lamenting the fact he missed out on his daughter's life. Snow has done it a few times (not recently), but Charming has only channeled his feelings through an unfair disliking toward Hook. The only time we ever saw him really contemplating the loss was in 3x14, but that was more about a fear he would do the same to Snowflake. Could we get more scenes like the Emma ball dancing nightmare? Please?
 

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Also, the script tease, looks like it's part of the secret that's coming out.

I'm wondering if we're going to be getting an Echo Cave parallel.

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3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't care about a David/Hook bromance.

It's not so much that I care about it at this point, since I'm tired of them hitting the same beats over and over again, and especially after they brought it back yet again after I thought we'd moved past it after the rather major turning points in 5B when the two guys actually talked about it and then David grabbed Hook in a big hug when he came back from the dead. But when they threw the two actors together for Comic Con interviews, during which one of their major talking points was the relationship between their characters and how they were going to be growing closer together before some secret from Hook's past tore them apart, I kind of expected them to maybe have a scene together before they were torn apart by a secret.

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Honestly, at this point all I hope is that Emma, Hook, Snow, Charming and Henry are not just prop to Regina. (aka the new Savior without the name all the season long)

 I mean somewhere down the line Emma will save herself and have her turn to shine???? Maybe next year if there one?

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The heroes doesn't really have any reason to trust Jasmine. She is nice, but so were Guinevere and Zelena. We as the audience know she's legit because of what we've seen, but Emma's "superpower" is not as reliable. For all they know, Aladdin could be a crime lord and Jasmine could be his accomplice. 

So... Hyde was governing the LoUS people with fear? Why was that not part of his flashbacks?

Edited by KingOfHearts
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A&E are writing this episode, therefore the dreamcatcher is back. What are we going for? Fake memories like when Regina killed Archie but it was really Cora? 

Also sounds like Oracle bites the dust in this one. And if that's the case, the body count this season is already pretty high.

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Really like both sneak peak there a season 1 feeling in the scene of Emma + snowing trying to solve a murder. 

Love Aladdin and Jasmin and the CS parallel is obvious. So, the Oracle is supposed to be dead at the beginning of the episode, Emma learn about Aladdin and want to find him. 

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Awww... the poor Oracle is dead already??!

I was rolling my eyes so hard at the "superpower" line. Emma needs to stop claiming it as such. I wonder if this scene is before or after the big "Secret" reveal. Before I suppose, as Sneak Peeks usually take place early in the episode.

Wow--Aladdin is a terrible thief. How was he not caught red-handed? lol

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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 4:17 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I came up with this in the episode thread for "The Other Shoe," but have there been any rumors of George coming back? Because that's about the only explanation for a cover-up of a murder of a random peasant I could think of. Yeah, it's probably going to be Hook who killed David's father, for maximum emotional and relationship impact, but really, why would that be hidden?

I read the wiki on David's father (because I can't remember this stuff) and an three alternate theories occurred to me. 

It said that David's father left for supplies and promised that when her returned his addiction to alcohol would be gone.  Since I doubt the EF has the Betty Ford Clinic and given his prior willingness to deal, I'd say its possible that he sought out Rumpelstiltskin.

1.  Seeking out Rumpel creates a scenario where Rumple made a deal with David's Dad that had him crossing Hook's path and got him killed.  If Charming's Dad was doing something nefarious because of a deal he made then this also gives them an opportunity to create a rift between Hook and Charming that they can later patch up.   

Now, if Rumple knows what happened and that it involved Hook he would have played that card already.  But its this show and they can't have characters act in character when they know what happens next.  So a retcon that makes sense in hindsight is not going to happen. 

They could explain away faking the accident by Rumple setting his 'find Neal' plans in motion and not wanting a murdered father to derail his plotted path for David.

2. If Rumple is involved, I'd say there is also the possibility that Belle killed him in self defense and the cart accident was staged to cover it up and he mucked around with Belle's memory of the event.  Under that circumstance, Rumple handing over the coin only makes sense if he's trying to alienate Belle from everyone to make her come back to him.  But the timey wimey makes that an outside chance unless Rumpel's castle is somehow outside of time through plot contrived magic we haven't heard of before.

Based on all of this happening when David was six, its almost got to be Hook or Rumple.  And that brings me to number three which I probably shouldn't put out into the universe. And I'm kind of leaning towards it being most likely because This Show.

3. We haven't heard David's Dad's name because its Johnathan.  He who is the ex lover of Cora and father of Zelena.  Making Zelena and David half brother and sister.  Brought to you by 'everyone on this show has to be related'.  Cora kills him in revenge.  The accident is staged to cover up a murder. This creates a plausible reason why Rumpel might have the coin and Evil Queen might have the knowledge of the circumstances of David's Dad's death.  Also makes a twisted kind of sense on why he randomly picked James and David's life to mess around with given his meddling with Regina and Zelena.

And Zelena is filming at Emma's house.

If this turns out to be true, I demand the finest muffins and bagels in all the lands.  Please don't lace them with arsenic.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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3. We haven't heard David's Dad's name because its Johnathan.  He who is the ex lover of Cora and father of Zelena.  Making Zelena and David half brother and sister.  Brought to you by 'everyone on this show has to be related'.  Cora kills him in revenge.  The accident is staged to cover up a murder. This creates a plausible reason why Rumpel might have the coin and Evil Queen might have the knowledge of the circumstances of David's Dad's death.  Also makes a twisted kind of sense on why he randomly picked James and David's life to mess around with given his meddling with Regina and Zelena.

This has been my crack theory for a while. Could explain why EQ is getting chubby with Zelena.

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3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

We haven't heard David's Dad's name because its Johnathan.  He who is the ex lover of Cora and father of Zelena.  Making Zelena and David half brother and sister.

I've thought this was possible since before Bleeding Through aired! Yes, let's do it. 

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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 8:53 AM, orza said:

I have no interest in seeing a princess Emma story. For me the fairy tale flashbacks are the best part of the show. That's why I watch (and for Robert Carlyle). A big part of my enjoyment is that there is no Emma in them. The other characters/actors get a chance to play a bigger role without Emma being shoehorned into the story. Emma as a character is all about her woman pain. Without that in a no-curse fairy tale story she would be unrecognizable as a character. She would probably be just as shallow and self-involved as princess Snow.

Seeing Emma as the fairy tale princess she was meant to be would at least be different from yet another flashback wherein Regina tries to kill Snow and fails miserably. Also, too, WTF?!? Woman pain? Really? How is that different from regular pain? But even Princess Emma can't be as shallow and self-involved as Regina, because Regina is the ultimate narcissist.

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11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

3. We haven't heard David's Dad's name because its Johnathan.  He who is the ex lover of Cora and father of Zelena.  Making Zelena and David half brother and sister.  Brought to you by 'everyone on this show has to be related'.  Cora kills him in revenge.  The accident is staged to cover up a murder. This creates a plausible reason why Rumpel might have the coin and Evil Queen might have the knowledge of the circumstances of David's Dad's death.  Also makes a twisted kind of sense on why he randomly picked James and David's life to mess around with given his meddling with Regina and Zelena.

I would actually prefer this to it being yet another random person Hook killed in the past to cause him more angst and self-loathing, when there's actually no real reason for him to have killed that person and they have to handwave a way to bring him temporarily out of Neverland to do so and not be killed by Rumple, while he's there, and especially when it's likely that this killing will be mostly forgotten in an episode or two. At least making David and Zelena related should have ongoing effects.

But unless the Evil Queen got new info from someone new in town, how would Regina not have known and why wouldn't she have said anything if she did know? I'd think that Regina withholding the info that the desperately lonely and unloved Zelena has a brother would be the real rift there.

Really, I'm going to have to hope that the Evil Queen got some juicy gossip about this from one of the Untold Stories people and that's how she knows, no matter who the killer is, and it's not something Regina knew all along because otherwise it makes Regina look pretty bad.

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Hyde did say that he had given the EQ! information regarding people from the LoUS in exchange for a decent meal. So, it's likely that the person who actually killed David's dad was brought to Sb in that dirigible. Or, they were an eye-witness to a murder that took place what--60 years ago, and somehow knows the connection between the murdered man, his killer, and David.

Edited by Rumsy4
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One argument against Hook being David's father's killer is that it looks like Hook's annual "Hook did something awful in his pirate days in the name of his revenge that he feels awful about now and faces consequences for" episode is coming up and involves Captain Nemo, and it's really hard to see how Captain Nemo would have been involved in the murder of a farmer. It seems unlikely that we'd have two instances of Hook's past evil deeds coming up so close together. It would be weird to have "Pirate Hook teamed up with Captain Nemo but then screwed him over when he saw a chance at revenge" back to back with "Pirate Hook murdered a man and now realizes who that was."

It would be a pleasant surprise if the Nemo story isn't the standard Hook story and maybe takes place in Hook's early Captain Jones days. I believe there were some photos of Hook in his old pirate costume posted, but was the hook in view?

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The death of Charming's dad is just another contrived way to create unnecessary drama between Hook, Emma and her family. And we all know how this is going to go: Hook would be sad and moody, Emma would completely ignore him and the Charmings would be all ofended and mad at Hook while, at the same time,  they keep coddling Regina.

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13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It would be a pleasant surprise if the Nemo story isn't the standard Hook story and maybe takes place in Hook's early Captain Jones days. I believe there were some photos of Hook in his old pirate costume posted, but was the hook in view?

Maybe Captain Nemo mentored the freshly vengeful Killian into piracy. When spoilers about Blackbeard came out, I had a headcanon that Blackbeard may have been Killian's mentor. 

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I'm going over all those interviews Colin did a couple of weeks ago, and he mentions a couple of people from the Land of Untold Stories. He also mentions something in the past of Hook's family on his father's side. He also says that Hook has a healthy respect for Nemo.

6x06 sounds like it will be interesting. Hopefully more so than 5x15.

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