Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

I've been wondering if Rumple doesn't do something to the crystal. Regina had it when she's back in Storybrooke, and he is there in the promo telling her how she was better as the EQ. He tried to get a piece of the crystal from Hades before he met his maker, we know he tethers Storybrooke's magic to it, so I really wonder if Rumple isn't behind Regina's transformation. 

If we're going to go full circle, Rumple is the one who gave Regina the final push she needed to step into that role, so it might happen again this time around.

[scenicbyway]

Rumple has always been the real foil for Hook and Emma though, not Regina.  Regina is Snow's and Rumple is Hook and Emma's.  So while may look like they have to defeat Regina, it's really Snow and Charming that need to do that.  It's Hook and Rumple and Emma that need to take on each other.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Looks like there's a double skyward blast from the library/clock tower in the promo.  Any theories on what causes it?

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Looks like there's a double skyward blast from the library/clock tower in the promo.  Any theories on what causes it?

I think it's something to do with Rumple tethering Storybrook's magic to the left over crystal.

[Curio]

4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Looks like there's a double skyward blast from the library/clock tower in the promo.  Any theories on what causes it?

Edit: Taking this to the Speculation Thread because it's talking about the promo.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Curio

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think it's something to do with Rumple tethering Storybrook's magic to the left over crystal.

Doh! <smacks forehead> Didn't even think of that.  Thanks! :)

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Two separate crystals in different locations? Rumple only has the broken end of the crystal, shouldn't Zelena or Regina have the other half she stabbed Hades with?

Hm, now that could be interesting.  Or did Zelena just leave the entire thing in Hades when he crumbled to dust?

[oliverwendell]

I'm actually intrigued with the direction they're taking Regina. Most of the villains who've been redeemed (like Hook, Maleficent, and even Zelena) were depicted as ordinary, decent people who were twisted into a dark version of themselves by tragedy or the villainy of others. Once they find their way back to the light, it's like they recover their true selves, and are much happier being "heroes" than they were being villains because doing good just feels better than doing evil. What Regina's saying here is that she may be someone who isn't a decent person at her core, that being good in and of itself doesn't make her happy. It's only the benefits she gets in trade (Henry, Robin, the love of a newfound family) that made it worth it, and with Robin dead, she doesn't see the point anymore. Maybe it's just grief talking, but I think it's the most interesting she's been in a couple of years.

[Bishop]

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

And with that sneak peek, I'm done. All of Regina's 5b development gets tossed out the window and it's back to 4x05 "friendship?" No thanks. not even Team Snowing/Hook/Zelena can save the finale for me now.

That's not what I saw at all.  Regina expressed her anger to Emma, and then admitted that it was wrong.  At no point does Emma look furious or angry with her.  I am not seeing their friendship being disintegrated.  All I'm seeing is a woman who lost someone she loves and she's lashing out - and Emma is taking it because she knows Regina is in pain.  As long as it doesn't go much beyond that, it will be fine.  The fact that both Regina and Emma put Henry above their feelings and go after him to NYC tells me that they are working together.  

[Rumsy4]

If Regina really cared about Emma, she wouldn't tell Emma that she felt the urge to rip out Hook's throat. She could always talk to Snow about it, if she needed a confidant while dealing with grief. Or how about her new BFF sister Zelena? The reason she tells Emma that is becasue she grudges her her happiness. The Mills sisters always have a problem with envy. All that talk about doing the right thing to Zelena was just self-righteous twaddle as Zelena said. Regina really needs to have everything to be happy: wealth, status, romance, family, and the "hero" label. If even one of these is in imbalance, she is not satisfied. Everytime I start liking Regina, they reset her character. It's piss-poor writing.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Rumsy4

[RulerofallIsurvey]

6 minutes ago, Bishop said:

Emma is taking it because she knows Regina is in pain.

IMO, Emma shouldn't 'take it' because she knows Regina is in Pain.  Hell, I wouldn't take a so-called friend of mine saying they wish they could rip out my boyfriend's throat after they just recovered from a grave illness, when the friend's boyfriend didn't make it.  I'd sympathize with my friend.  Comfort and console her.  While still reminding her that impulse/thinking is inappropriate and would not be tolerated.  

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, Bishop said:

That's not what I saw at all.  Regina expressed her anger to Emma, and then admitted that it was wrong.  At no point does Emma look furious or angry with her.  I am not seeing their friendship being disintegrated.  All I'm seeing is a woman who lost someone she loves and she's lashing out - and Emma is taking it because she knows Regina is in pain.  As long as it doesn't go much beyond that, it will be fine.  The fact that both Regina and Emma put Henry above their feelings and go after him to NYC tells me that they are working together.  

This is my reaction. As long as Regina is only being honest with what she's feeling and has no plans or intentions of doing anything, nothing has really changed in her relationship with Emma or her role in the group. I'm guessing Emma comes to her and asks her to talk about it since she knows Hook being back must be like salt in the wound. And more likely because everyone knows it has to be what she's feeling considering Daniel's death is what began her downward fall before.

[Curio]

I don't mind Regina venting to Emma, and I could see Emma being the one to push her into opening up to begin with, but what frustrates me is that Emma is never allowed to vent to Regina. I think it's in character for Regina to say what she did about Hook, but what I don't find in character is Emma remaining mute the entire time. There needs to be a balance in this "friendship," and there hasn't been a proper balance between those two ever since 4x05. Maybe this episode will allow Emma to voice some opinions of her own, but because Emma knows Regina just lost her soulmate, she won't be allowed to really go toe-to-toe with Regina verbally, so again Regina has the narrative upper hand.

Anyways, we know this venting session must end alright in the end because Emma has to hand Regina Robin's letter at some point.

[PixiePaws1]

Ok..well Hyde was known to be a vicious sociopathic sadist......I'm thinking the rip out throat line is a massive signpost for Jekyll/Hyde 'hijinks'......serial killer in SB....may or may not blame  EQ who may or may not actually have done it depending on whether she gets Jekyll juiced. I  think Killian will be just fine though. 

 

That new pic of the 4 of them in that room with the True Love scales, a type writer, a candle and a painting of what looks like Kansas from the original Wiz of Oz movie  (well to me).....oh this looks to be seriously twisted and 50million+ more interesting that forced BFF road trip to boring. ..

[Mathius]

I will admit: Hyde and the Evil Queen sounds like a potentially very entertaining pairing.

[Curio]

1 minute ago, Mathius said:

I will admit: Hyde and the Evil Queen sounds like a potentially very entertaining pairing.

There's going to be some kind of fucked up love triangle with Jekyll, Hyde, and Regina, and I'm going to love every second of it.

Calling it now: Regina goes Jekyll/Hyde in 6A, her Evil Queen alter ego puts Hook under a sleeping curse (after that whole "rip out his throat" comment, something big has to happen between those two characters), but normal Regina won't remember any of it. Emma will wake Hook up during the 6A finale and the Jekyll/Hyde arc will be completed.

[Bishop]

48 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

IMO, Emma shouldn't 'take it' because she knows Regina is in Pain.  Hell, I wouldn't take a so-called friend of mine saying they wish they could rip out my boyfriend's throat after they just recovered from a grave illness, when the friend's boyfriend didn't make it. 

Well to be fair, in the world of OUAT, threatening to "rip someone's throat out" is par for the course.  In our world, it would be considered horrific.  In their world? Considering Regina and Emma have ripped out people's hearts before, I don't think it's a big deal.  Like I said, if Regina carries a grudge against Hook or if she is constantly telling Emma that she doesn't deserve her happy ending because Regina didn't get hers, then that would be a different story.

We'll agree to disagree on this one.

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, Curio said:

Calling it now: Regina goes Jekyll/Hyde in 6A, her Evil Queen alter ego puts Hook under a sleeping curse (after that whole "rip out his throat" comment, something big has to happen between those two characters), but normal Regina won't remember any of it. Emma will wake Hook up during the 6A finale and the Jekyll/Hyde arc will be completed.

I do agree that the Sleeping Curse is coming back into play in S6. It's more likely to be Emma because she was the one to make the comment about sleeping for a long time once Hades was defeated and they were out of the UW. Plus, we just had a #savehook arc. It's time to recycle the #saveemma plot. OTOH, Hook tends to parallel Snow in Snowing vs CS. So, Hook could well end up being the one cursed. 

I guess it now makes sense why Regina didn't face any of her victims in the Underworld. With the Show renewed, the writers didn't want Regina to look deep into her soul and face the rottenness within. So, she merely got to make self-righteous speeches to Zelena becasue things were going well for her at the time. And now, the writers can bring the EQ back.

17 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

That new pic of the 4 of them in that room with the True Love scales, a type writer, a candle and a painting of what looks like Kansas from the original Wiz of Oz movie  (well to me).....

I am intrigued by the True Love scales. Could the gang have been fed some of the Jekyll Juice themselves and it makes them manifest things from their past?

[Mathius]

Given how batshit the Orderly looks and that Hyde is the warden, I think this is a "twisted" realm because it's a mental institution where those who should be inmates are running the asylum, and sane people get locked up instead.  They will miss a good opportunity if the day isn't saved by Zelena convincing the staff that she should be let outside by acting like her old crazy self.

[YaddaYadda]

I wasn't really sure how they would pull off the whole J&H if Jekyll was locked up in the asylum, and Hyde was the mean warden, but Harris is the groundkeeper which means he's outside of the asylum, while the other guy should be inside since he is the warden.

My speculation is that Harris' character helps Hook, Snowing and Zelena escape after they get imprisoned, and since they get a taste of what's going on in the asylum, and how possibly sadistic the warden is, they might make the decision to take the guy who saved them away from the place, and offer him a chance at something new.

[KingOfHearts]

39 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

My speculation is that Harris' character helps Hook, Snowing and Zelena escape after they get imprisoned, and since they get a taste of what's going on in the asylum, and how possibly sadistic the warden is, they might make the decision to take the guy who saved them away from the place, and offer him a chance at something new.

This really is a repeat of the S3 finale. Someone from another realm is brought over because of sympathy, only to screw with Regina's life and test her redemption.

[InsertWordHere]

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This really is a repeat of the S3 finale. Someone from another realm is brought over because of sympathy, only to screw with Regina's life and test her redemption.

Since I'm pretty sure Regina won't choose to give in to her desires and will only go evil due to an outside factor, it's also a little too similar to the Dark Hook twist for my liking. At least Regina's circumstances will make it more believable than Hook's turn, which I still dislike.

[YaddaYadda]

36 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This really is a repeat of the S3 finale. Someone from another realm is brought over because of sympathy, only to screw with Regina's life and test her redemption.

It's TS, TW, so there's really no shock there. It would be the Marian situation all over again, except that they can't go and say, oh we had it planned all along that Marian was really Zelena.

[KingOfHearts]

47 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

It's TS, TW, so there's really no shock there. It would be the Marian situation all over again, except that they can't go and say, oh we had it planned all along that Marian was really Zelena.

This time Regina can give into her evil desires without the backlash since it's being forced on her.

[Curio]

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

Since I'm pretty sure Regina won't choose to give in to her desires and will only go evil due to an outside factor, it's also a little too similar to the Dark Hook twist for my liking. 

If this happens, you just know that the same fans who were overly-critical of Dark Hook's behavior as the Dark One and blamed him entirely for his actions (even though he didn't choose to become that demon) will be the same ones who remind people that Regina didn't choose the Jekyll Juice, so we shouldn't be overly-critical of whatever the Evil Queen does in Season 6. If there's one thing this show and fandom is good at, it's double standards.

[Rumsy4]

13 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This time Regina can give into her evil desires without the backlash since it's being forced on her.

Boom. There you go. 

[Curio]

After watching the longer sneak peek, I didn't realize Regina was holding Robin's letter the entire time. So Emma hands Regina the letter before this confession, apparently.

Why can't the writers let their characters have long conversations like this all the time? Can you imagine the kind of characterizations we could cover if they allowed Snow and David or Rumple and Hook to have long, complicated conversations like they give Emma and Regina in the sneak peek? It's really not that hard, writers. You just have to do it.

[YaddaYadda]

I think they find the letter in the apartment. In one of the promo stills, Regina is holding a book titled "Robin Hood", so maybe the letter was in there. He wrote it, but never sent it. although I don't really know how mail would get to Storybrooke since it technically doesn't exist on maps?

Regina's makeup is not too subtle. 

[Mathius]

Regina's talk of "The Evil Queen is always inside her, always trying to claw her way out"...

Yeah, if there was ANY doubts that its Jekyll/Hyde we're dealing with, those should be gone now.

It's the ultimate culmination of the writers' insistence on "The Evil Queen /=/ Regina" we've had since Season 2.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mathius

[Hookian]

10 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Regina's talk of "The Evil Queen is always inside her, always trying to claw her way out"...

Yeah, if there was ANY doubts that its Jekyll/Hyde we're dealing with, those should be gone now.

It's the ultimate culmination of the writers' insistence on "The Evil Queen /=/ Regina" we've had since Season 2.

Support of the theory we've all specced on here. EQ will be trying to destroy Emma and Hook in S6.

[kili]

Quote

although I don't really know how mail would get to Storybrooke since it technically doesn't exist on maps?

Somehow, the mail like the electricity works. Under the curse, Kathryn applied to law school in Boston and received an acceptance letter. The electrical lines to the town were cut when Elsa built the ice walls. They also get cell service between inside the line and outside (Cruella and Ursula phoned in) and internet service (Henry used it to hire a service to find Emma and paid for it with a credit card he stole from Mary Margaret - so the banks work too). 

So, Robin either forgot to or decided not to send that letter. That letter was written while he was living with and having sexual relations with a woman he thought was his wife. Once Regina told him she was not his wife, they all left town together so he could not have written it after he knew. So, my guess is Robin wrote the letter, but did not send it.

[maryle]

I am so happy I was busy today and by principe do not watch sneak peak because all I am reading is not good for my heart.

Maybe the only silver lighning is with all the focus Regina is getting in 5b annonce that as always Emma will be the focus in 6a. Because I fear she will be sideline. Some people think season 6 is Regina turn. But season 6 could really be the last and should focus on  Emma (the protagonist) as the savior with some big bad. Rumple, the blue fairy...That with help from all she defeat and have her happy ending.

[Hookian]

12 minutes ago, maryle said:

I am so happy I was busy today and by principe do not watch sneak peak because all I am reading is not good for my heart.

Maybe the only silver lighning is with all the focus Regina is getting in 5b annonce that as always Emma will be the focus in 6a. Because I fear she will be sideline. Some people think season 6 is Regina turn. But season 6 could really be the last and should focus on  Emma (the protagonist) as the savior with some big bad. Rumple, the blue fairy...That with help from all she defeat and have her happy ending.

It won't be the last season. S6A is probably gonna feature Regina but Emma nor Hook will be sidelined. Especially if they're the ones EQ is trying to destroy.

[KingOfHearts]

There's still something off about Emma's makeup. She still looks tired and stressed. (or like she has allergies.) I know Robin just died, she hasn't gotten sleep, and her son is in danger, but I hope her face gets to glow again some day. She seemed to be stuck in one mode.

Edited May 12, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Hookian]

Just now, KingOfHearts said:

There's still something off about Emma's makeup. She still looks tired and stressed. (or like she has allergies.) I know Robin just died, she hasn't gotten sleep, and her son is in danger, but I hope her face gets to glow again some day. She seemed to be stuck in one mode.

Well maybe before EQ comes to destroy Emma and Hook they have time to christen their home.

[justmythoughts]

Uhhh now that spoiler changes everything! No, it doesn't. I love Lana, I love the Evil Queen, but it doesn't mean I agree with her moral compass.

Also, if I say to someone that I hated someone they love to the point of me wanting to kill them... Well, empty threat, I am not dangerous, not more than the avarage non violent person. When the former EQ says the same... Well, she's done worse, so it is a serious sentence to really consider the safety of those  you love.

She is not happy being good? Join the club, sister! It sucks when you see people being dishonest and doing illegal things and getting off, having a nice life, not struggling through everyday's life. But we keep doing good, because it is more than the expected to be in good graces with your family, it is a daily choice made by character.

[kili]

I finally got a chance to watch the sneak peak and....I kind of see where they are going with this.

First, it starts out with Regina kind of apologizing or at least admitting that Emma was right. I think it is a reference back to the scene from the promo in the clocktower where Regina accuses Emma of thinking that Regina is going to revert to the EQ. Apparently, she got mad about that.  In the Sneak Peak, Regina admits that Emma was right. She is constantly tempted to revert back to being the Evil Queen.

Regina is like a recovering alcoholic. When a non-alcoholic has a bad day, they may go home and have a drink or not, but it doesn't mean anything. If a recovering alcoholic takes a drink, it may mean a total relapse. The urge to drink may never go away.

We saw this with Hook with the Dark Curse. He begged Emma not to curse him because he knew he could not resist the darkness (and initially he did not).  He knew his own limits and that he was not as good as Emma. Here, Regina is kind of admitting to the same thing. Still, it is Regina so she frames it as Emma being lucky not to be tempted and for being pulled back from the precipice whereas Regina was not so lucky. But, still she's at least admitting that Emma is the better person.

It's a surprisingly realistic self-assessment by Regina in that scene. Should she be having urges to rip people's throats out? No. But at least she knows that is wrong. There is some progress here. I think the tone is much different than in early Season 4 where she brow-beat Emma and she felt like the hero who was screwed over. Here she is pointing out that Emma is the better person and that she herself is deeply flawed. 

[Mathius]

I do admire Regina's honesty about how evil she still is deep down and her admittance of Emma being a better person.  I just dread what will come before this moment (apparently she'll be playing the blame game with Emma) and after it (particularly when Jekyll/Hyde gets involved).

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

13 minutes ago, Mathius said:

I do admire Regina's honesty about how evil she still is deep down and her admittance of Emma being a better person.  I just dread what will come before this moment (apparently she'll be playing the blame game with Emma) and after it (particularly when Jekyll/Hyde gets involved).

This is one of the rare moments where the show is being real about Regina's past. I wouldn't classify her inner struggle as flip-flopping, rather, it's been evident since the beginning that changing from the Evil Queen, someone consumed by darkness, isn't easy. I'm glad Regina pointed out that Emma hadn't gone down the road as far. There was a big difference between EQ and the Dark Swan. That whole sneak peek felt like a reality check.

Up to this point, Regina has only been working for rewards. She hasn't been good for the sake of being good. I understand losing something and thinking, "Then what's the point?" It has to feel so unfair that Emma and Snow got their boyfriends back, yet she doesn't get to. There are meta writing reasons for that, but Regina as a character doesn't know that.

Quote

Should she be having urges to rip people's throats out? No. But at least she knows that is wrong. There is some progress here. 

After being the Evil Queen/Mayor Mills for over 40 years, it's no surprise urges like that would come. The show just hasn't dealt with that realistically.

Edited May 12, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[kitticup]

Looking at the photos, Regina and Rumple seem to be working together.  I am wondering if Regina and Rumple will use each other/ team up to get at Hook and Emma.

[MMR]

16 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I can understand Regina's feelings. It does suck that Hook gets to live and Robin bites it. I'm so sick of Hook and Emma.

Agree!

[RadioGirl27]

Quote

really really hope Season 6 is Evil Queen (and Rumple) VS Captain Swan and Snowing, but only if the heroes fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. For the love of all that is good, PLEASE let Emma punch someone in the face.

They are not going to fight back, A&E are not going to let them. In Season 1, Snow and Charming were the heroes and Regina the villain, thst is why they were allowed to fight back. But now? Regina is a "hero", she is going to be presented as a victim. Emma was ready to kill Dark Hook, but I'm 100% sure that neither her nor Snow, Charming or Zelena would even consider killing the EQ no matter what she does.

Season 6 would be Snow, Emma, Zelena and Henry justfying everything Regina does and trying to save her while Hook and Charming take care of the babies in the background. And, really, a whole season of CS against the EQ is pointless because we know they are going to lose and at the end of it everything would exactly the same it is now.

Edited May 12, 2016 by RadioGirl27
Adding more ideas

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, Curio said:

Longer version of the sneak peek.

How many versions of the same dang scene are they going to release? 

8 hours ago, Mathius said:

It's the ultimate culmination of the writers' insistence on "The Evil Queen /=/ Regina" we've had since Season 2.

Yup. I'm going to start calling her EQ version Gollum, and Mayor Mills Smeagol.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

7 hours ago, -Zoe- said:

What makes me really angry about that extended sneak peek is Regina's "You don't understand, it's exhausting, woe is me" attitude about something that SHE CHOSE.

Since when did Emma becoming the Dark One (which she chose also) be Not As Bad as Regina as Evil Queen?  That's not what Henry said.  (Does Emma get an apology from him now?)  Heck, didn't Regina and even Rumple pretty much agree with him?  (And Snow, uh erm, she was MM then...)  But now, resisting the EQ evil is so much harder than resisting THE FREAKING DARK ONE?  How exactly does that work?  STFU Regina.

Quote

but she can't mention any of it because she feels like she has to do everything in her power to ensure that Regina is happy and it all comes down to Emma's crushing guilt over Robin's death, which she can't possibly be held accountable for.

I don't think it's guilt over Robin's death preventing Emma from saying anything there.  Or at least not only guilt.  It's also the whole "savior" thing - and she's responsible for bringing back everyone's happy ending, dontchaknow.  Even the person who wants to rip out her boyfriend's throat.  

5 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

They are not going to fight back, A&E are not going to let them. In Season 1, Snow and Charming were the heroes and Regina the villain, thst is why they were allowed to fight back. But now? Regina is a "hero", she is going to be presented as a victim. Emma was ready to kill Dark Hook, but I'm 100% sure that neither her nor Snow, Charming or Zelena would even consider killing the EQ no matter what she does.

I don't want to see them kill Regina.  And you're right, I don't think the showrunners would let them anyway.  But I do want to see them (Emma and Hook in particular) stand up to her.  Fight back with words at least.  Hook already has.  He did it in the Underworld when he snarked apologetically back at her.  Good for him!  And he called it when he was Dark!Hook and called her out for thinking she was a hero now and constantly insulting him.  Maybe some of his gumption will rub off on Emma.  Even better, since she was also a Dark One and called it like she saw it then, maybe some of that will stick with her too.  

[SiobhanJW]

Sneak Peak is exactly how I figured it would happen. Haha. 

[Curio]

I love how Emma can't even control giving a little smirk after Hook says he's back.

[KingOfHearts]

Oh no it's Marian- I mean Hook!

Edited May 12, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[BoPeeps]

Re: Sneak Peek2

Regina, fuck off

Zelena, fuck off

Adam and Eddy, fuck way off.

That is all.

Edited May 12, 2016 by BoPeeps

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, BoPeeps said:

Re: Sneak Peek2

Regina, fuck off

Serena, fuck off

Adam and Eddy, fuck off.

That is all.

I wanna say that your auto-correct is acting up?

[BoPeeps]

Damned pesky auto-correct (grin)

But I felt like adding the extra "way" to Adam and Eddys' fuck, too!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 minutes ago, BoPeeps said:

Re: Sneak Peek2

Seriously: why is no one happy to see Hook again?  I get Regina.  (Zelena - what's her deal?  None o' yo business, sista.)  But I'd think Snow and Charming would have been more like (Happily and excited), Hook!  You're back!  Not (somber and grumpy) I thought we left you in the Underworld.  wtf?

Argh.  I'm going to watch the sneak peak again just to see Hook bust in and ask if every one's okay.  You know.  Like a Hero would do...

Edited May 12, 2016 by RulerofallIsurvey
because Hook...