Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[PixiePaws1]

the idea of Henry rewriting stories gives me the horrors! !! this is a boy waaaay too interested in his mothers' sex lives....then there's the inappropriately directed hero-worshipping and the double-standards he applies to Emma!!! OMG....

[Rumsy4]

If Henry has written Violet into his Happy Ending, he'd be following in the nasty footsteps of his Dark One grandpapa. I hope there will be some other explanation for Violet being in NYC with Henry.

 

We just had a storybook-AU in the S4 finale! A&E are starting to write fanfiction for their own fanfiction. 

[scenicbyway]

Looks like a door to Camelot is setup in Storybrooke.

I also think that Henry and Violet's adventure takes place in "Only You" since that appears to be their "song."

[Mathius]

I have no idea where people are getting "Henry AU" from. I don't see anything that suggests it.

[YaddaYadda]

Could Henry write up a "curse was never cast" scenario?

if that ever happens then he can write himself right out of existence. No curse, no Emma in the LwM, no meeting with Neal, no Henry.

[Nijntje]

Maybe when Emma conjures up the door to Camelot, Henry and Violet run away to NYC so Violet doesn't have to go back.

[CheshireCat]

Mathius, on 14 Mar 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:Mathius, on 14 Mar 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:

I have no idea where people are getting "Henry AU" from. I don't see anything that suggests it.

 

I think it's the "Untold Story" (story=writing) and maybe the NYC spoilers.

 

As far as Henry getting power-hungry... I'm not sure I'd buy that considering how he's been portrayed. He made the very responsible choice to snap the quill (even if technically, it could be considered murder, if it was a living entity, right?) and he's seen first-hand what that power can do. He almost lost one of his mothers because of it. I would think he's learned the lesson but never say never, I guess.

 

The door might simply be the way back for the Camelot people? Aren't they supposed to return home in the finale?

 

Lately, I've actually been wondering if the TLK could be between Arthur and Guineviere. Or maybe even Lancelot and Guineviere. After all, Guineviere had fallen out of love with Arthur and he kept her in love with him with the powder, so I'd say the love is based on a lie and not real at the moment.

Edited March 15, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Souris]

My fingers are crossed it's the doorway to the end of the Camelot people and especially Merida.

[RadioGirl27]

Another Henry's centric finale? And I thought the spoilers could get any worse.

Lately, I've actually been wondering if the TLK could be between Arthur and Guineviere.

God, I hope not. One abuser having a TLK with her victim was more than enough.

[daxx]

Scary thought, isn't it?

I suspect it will be an accident as he words things poorly trying to get them all out of Hades alive.

[HoodlumSheep]

Ugh. I don't want another magical door. We never got an explanation for the random magical Frozen door in the sorceror's house. I guess you could say he put it there himself, but I'm also waiting for the reason why he had a random mansion in Storybrooke to begin with. And the "he must have seen it in one of his 8 zillion visions" excuse doesn't fly with me.

The only people who have summoned doors (not counting Jefferson's hat) have been Mickey and Merlin I guess. Unless I'm forgetting someone.

I don't see Emma being able to summon a door quite yet. I'll bet if anything Henry writes a door for the Camelot crew.

And yeah, I'm still expecting some sort of AU for the finale based on the finale title.

[Shanna Marie]

Wacky theory time:

What if the death blind item isn't about this show, and the funeral is for ... Hook!

 

Supposedly, Emma's carrying around his soul in a jar and they need to reunite it with his body, which Arthur has stolen/hidden. What if that's plan A, and the Black Moment all is lost fakeout is that they aren't able to reunite the soul with the body before it turns into a pumpkin, or whatever (and then there's that issue of those unhealable mortal wounds on the body). But then in a surprising last-minute "twist" they're somehow able to make the soul corporeal, like the spirit body from the Underworld (which is likely what would have to happen for either Pan or Cruella to be able to return to this world). And then after Hook is back to normal, they find the body and would need to give it a proper burial, so Hook gets to attend his own funeral and will have a grave in town even as he's alive. Bonus if they bury that body as "Captain Hook" and he gets to start over again as Killian Jones. And they get funeral footage for fake-out promos.

[Mathius]

That would be disappointing.  I'm still hedging my bets on Rumple, and that Robin is a deliberately planned BTS fake-out.

[PixiePaws1]

perhaps Emma doesn't magic up the door...maybe it had one of those pesky cloaking spells on it and she just removes that....

[YaddaYadda]

perhaps Emma doesn't magic up the door...maybe it had one of those pesky cloaking spells on it and she just removes that....

Maybe Henry makes the portal appear since he is now the Author and Authors can travel to different realms.

[Shanna Marie]

There was that door to Arendelle that Rumple uncovered in the mansion. So there may be more doors leading to more places. They just have to find them, uncover them, and figure out where they go.

[YaddaYadda]

There was that door to Arendelle that Rumple uncovered in the mansion. So there may be more doors leading to more places. They just have to find them, uncover them, and figure out where they go.

 

But that door that's photographed in Steveston specifically, I think is from episode 4x21 when the Apprentice opened it for Isaac.

[kili]

There was that door to Arendelle that Rumple uncovered in the mansion.

 

Why don't they just use that door? Obviously, Camelot is a hop-skip-and-a-jump from Arendelle because:

   - paupers like Kristoff and David were best friends despite living in Arendelle and Enchanted Forest respectively

   - Snow easily believed that David made it to Camelot and back to the EF with Excalibur in less than a day

   - Red/Mulan were easily able to get from the EF to Camelot

   - Blackbeard thinks nothing of boating between the EF and Arendelle

 

So what it's not a direct door from our world to Camelot? Sometimes we all have to transit through O'Hare. If they want to go back to Camelot, they'll have to spend a few days on the journey.  I'll fanwank that the Neverengers had to get their faster to stop Emma from going dark, but these Camelotians have no such reason for not taking the 2 day route.

 

Of course, A&E won't have them take the known route to Camelot because they will think it is much cooler to think of another route despite every new route making Rumple seem stupider and stupider.

[Curio]

Here's a thought—what if we're finally getting back around to the science vs. magic/Home Office theme of Season 2, and when Henry travels to NYC with Violet, he accidentally introduces magic into the real world?

[mjgchick]

All these doors to go places really does make Rumple look even stupider. He didn't need Cora, Zelena or Regina at all for the dark curse to get to Bae.

[CheshireCat]

mjgchick, on 15 Mar 2016 - 4:30 PM, said:

All these doors to go places really does make Rumple look even stupider. He didn't need Cora, Zelena or Regina at all for the dark curse to get to Bae.

 

Unless the doors only work one way. We have only ever seen them used to return to fairy tale lands, haven't we? Not the other way around, as far as I can remember.

[YaddaYadda]

It seems everyone that doesn't belong in SB is heading back to the EF, and that looks to be including Little John and the Merry Men.

[RadioGirl27]

Roland is also there. Is he saying good bye or leaving with his real father, Little John?

[mjgchick]

Dang they really killing off Robin? Regina is stuck with Zelena and Peanut.

If everyone's leaving why is Violet still in New York and why is Emma and Regina ok with this?

[Serena]

I still don't believe A&E won't chicken out at the last second and bring back Robin. Buuut if they don't, I'll be impressed.

[daxx]

The new casting announcement, why do I get the feeling the meek one is Liam 2?

[RadioGirl27]

 

Hank Harris (The Man in the High Castle) and Being Human alum Sam Witwer have signed on for recurring roles in ABC’s hit drama series Once Upon A Time.

Harris will play Nathaniel, a meek and troubled patient at a mental institution who finds himself trapped under the thumb of its evil and overbearing warden, Jacob (Witwer), who takes pleasure in tormenting his most disturbed and helpless patients.

Really, this sounds terrible. 

 

Maybe, in the end, the theory that everything is happening in Emma's deranged mind is true.

Edited March 15, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[mjgchick]

Damn Once, y'all getting real dark the last 2 seasons.

[YaddaYadda]

Is the asylum in Storybrooke? Because why would Regina put someone meek in a cell unless they're dangerous to her?

[SiobhanJW]

So what Story is this one related to? Doesn't seem to say that they are brothers in the release. So who could they be? Any guesses? 

[Mathius]

Wait, so the names weren't misdirects, the brother relationship was?

Well, there goes the Richard/John theory.

[HoodlumSheep]

So what Story is this one related to? Doesn't seem to say that they are brothers in the release. So who could they be? Any guesses?

Yeah, is there any notable

Literary works that involves a mental institution and 2 brothers?

It just seems like a strange choice.

Could it be a cover-up like the Merida stuff was in intial casting, or is this what the two actors are actually going to be?

Edited March 15, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[SiobhanJW]

Wait, so the names weren't misdirects, the brother relationship was?

Well, there goes the Richard/John theory.

I dunno. It says one of them is a patient and the other is the Warden. I guess that doesn't mean they AREN'T brothers, it just doesn't say that in the article. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[Shanna Marie]

So we had the Dark One arc, then we went to the Underworld where all the guest characters we meet are already dead, and next arc we're going to a mental hospital. But this is a show about hope and fairy tales!

 

I have noticed that series do tend to skew darker as they go along, even if they started out relatively light. "Dark" frequently seems to be taken as a synonym for "good," and writers who are craving critical acclaim or awards or just want to be taken more seriously will start going dark in a pretentious way, as if they're screaming "No, really, what I write is important and meaningful." That's generally the death knell of the show because the people who liked it in the first place won't like the new direction, and anyone who might like the darker version probably hasn't been watching all along and is turned off by the premise.

[Curio]

Wait, so the names weren't misdirects, the brother relationship was?

 

Or they're purposely leaving out the brother aspect in the release to keep it a secret.

 

Edit: Or what was already said above me...

Edited March 15, 2016 by Curio

[SiobhanJW]

Didn't the Apprentice say that some very famous people were the "Authors" so maybe The Grimm brothers were years and years ago. And Henry needs them for some reason to help with something. 

[KingOfHearts]

The casting announcement makes me think of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. We have Nurse Ratched already. I laughed when I read it because it sounds so bizarre against everything else on the show right now.

 

 

It seems everyone that doesn't belong in SB is heading back to the EF, and that looks to be including Little John and the Merry Men.

 

Where is this spoiler? I don't see it in the Spoilers Only thread.

 

Edit: RadioGirl27 just posted it. Thanks!

 

 

Dang they really killing off Robin? Regina is stuck with Zelena and Peanut.

Alright, it's really suspicious that Robin isn't there but freaking Zelena is. If Robin does die, it's much like Neal's death in that the writers are bored of a character and they don't want to write for them any more.

Edited March 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

So we had the Dark One arc, then we went to the Underworld where all the guest characters we meet are already dead, and next arc we're going to a mental hospital. But this is a show about hope and fairy tales!

Don't forget the Queens of Darkness before the Dark One arc.

Honestly, Neverland was as dark as they should have pushed things on this show. Everything else is just going way too far into depressing and/or disturbing territory.

[CheshireCat]

Shanna Marie, on 15 Mar 2016 - 5:32 PM, said:Shanna Marie, on 15 Mar 2016 - 5:32 PM, said:

So we had the Dark One arc, then we went to the Underworld where all the guest characters we meet are already dead, and next arc we're going to a mental hospital. But this is a show about hope and fairy tales!

 

 

 

You forgot that they might have permanently killed off the father of two small children!

Granted, the original fairy tales are much darker than the Disney versions but as you rightly pointed out, this show is about hope and second chances...

Edited March 15, 2016 by CheshireCat

[RadioGirl27]

We need to wait for confirmation, because it seems that the source of the info is not very reliable. But Sam Witwer looks a lot like Adam Croasdell.  Liam 2.0?

 

Adam just confirmed it.

Edited March 15, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[scenicbyway]

Well, I suppose next season there will be a lot to fast forward through. 5a Dark Swan. 5b Hell/Underworld, where do we go next? A Mental Institution!

Are they kidding with this? They have to be, right? Why so dark?

#ididn'signupforthis . #justhereforhookandemma

[KingOfHearts]

Crazy speculation time.

 

Could....

... they have to do with an Author Pen manipulation?

... Nathaniel be in a mental hospital because he believes the events of the show are real?
... this be a flash forward of the some of the babies/kids as adults?

... this just be a couple of random new characters that are loosely tied to everything else? (Liam 2.0 is sort of in that category.)
 

Edited March 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

Harris will play Nathaniel, a meek and troubled patient at a mental institution who finds himself trapped under the thumb of its evil and overbearing warden, Jacob (Witwer), who takes pleasure in tormenting his most disturbed and helpless patients.

 

Now we are grimly becoming like real life.

 

For some reason, this reminds me of the Count of Monte Cristo. I can't remember if the jailer is mean, but the person who put the "Count" in there was. Plus, we would get a revenge story that might look Regina's look tame-ish. Maybe we'll get the entire Dumas catalog in with The Three Musketeers too.

 

Or maybe Nathaniel is Jean Valjean and Jacob is Javert. Or maybe Jacob is Jacob from Lost.

 

If we can have Robin Hood, we can have these guys. How about some good old Ivanhoe?

[Curio]

#ididn'signupforthis . #justhereforhookandemma

 

Yeah, it's now more like #WeLikeToTortureOurCharactersAllTheTimeButSinceTheyAlwaysHaveFalseHopeAboutABetterFutureThisShowIsTechnicallyStillAboutLoveAndFamilyAndHappyEndingsEvenThoughWeNeverShowThoseMomentsOnScreen.

 

I do see the resemblance between Witwer and Croasdell, but didn't Adam or Eddy shoot down the question about Liam 2.0 returning this season in a spoiler interview? Not that those two haven't lied outright in an interview before...

[Rumsy4]

That casting announcement is rather dark. I'm not sure I want to watch a depressing arc like that. Plus, I don't trust A&E to handle mental health issues with any sensitivity. I can't think of what story they're riffing off.

 

Poor Roland. He's had a very confusing and unstable life for the past year or so. I can't still believe they're killing off Robin for good. I'll feel bad for Colin for losing his buddy (and for Sean, of course). 

[Curio]

I can't still believe they're killing off Robin for good. I'll feel bad for Colin for losing his buddy (and for Sean, of course). 

 

Where do we have official confirmation of this? I'm still skeptical they'll do this permanently. (Even though Robin brings nothing to the table, I don't think the writers have the guts to kill him off for good.)

[SiobhanJW]

Crazy speculation time.

 

Could....

... they have to do with an Author Pen manipulation?

... Nathaniel be in a mental hospital because he believes the events of the show are real?

... this be a flash forward of the some of the babies/kids as adults?

... this just be a couple of random new characters that are loosely tied to everything else? (Liam 2.0 is sort of in that category.)

 

I kind of like the Idea as their characters actually being Future characters as some of the babies/adults. 

 

I just keep thinking that these guys were writers on Lost. That they will eventually try and flip the storytelling again. We got Flashbacks from years in the past, then the year they were missing, then the 6 weeks in Camelot. I can't imagine a point where it doesn't flip the other way and we start getting Flashforwards. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[maryle]

That sound so random!

Maybe it is the start of the promise final battle. Evil (writer Grimm? ) against good writer (Henry?)

the Evil writer brother wants to protection his evil writing plans to rule all the realms from his brother who knows too much about it via the fayritell stories?

[CheshireCat]

YaddaYadda, on 15 Mar 2016 - 4:48 PM, said:

It seems everyone that doesn't belong in SB is heading back to the EF, and that looks to be including Little John and the Merry Men.

 

Thinking about it - does that mean everyone who wasn't included in the first curse? Because that would include Hook. ... And that would be ... interesting. In an odd way.

[RadioGirl27]

That casting announcement is rather dark. I'm not sure I want to watch a depressing arc like that. Plus, I don't trust A&E to handle mental health issues with any sensitivity. I can't think of what story they're riffing off.

This. It's so depressing. I miss when OUAT was a show about hope and fairytales. I'm not sure that my love for Killian/Colin and Emma/Jennifer is enough to keep watching.