Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Mathius]

So I guess this means Season 6 is officially a go. I'm not surprised.

[mjgchick]

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they mean the fact that theirs always this cloud of angst around them even as a couple. Emma's always worrying about everyone else and never takes the time to herself. Hook is full of self loathing. I hope in S6 they just learn to live with the things they've done and work on being happy for real this time.

Who are we kidding, its this show.

[Shanna Marie]

The earlier description of the brothers (not from the actual casting call) kept giving me vivid mental Disney cartoon images, and on my way to choir practice, I figured it out: It sounds kind of like Kay and Wart from The Sword in the Stone. Only it can't be that because they just did Camelot. But there was that burly older one who was kind of a bully and the scrawny younger one who tended to be dismissed and not taken seriously. Maybe they're an addition to a story, like Ingrid and her sisters put into the Frozen story.

 

I don't so much mind the constant cloud of angst and torture for Hook and Emma, since they're not real people. The fact that they have to work so hard makes for a good story and makes many people cheer for them. Regina and Robin have potential, but for whatever bizarre reason the writers are afraid to write tough stuff for them, and having all their conflicts magically resolved (literally!) so quickly and easily makes them dull to watch.

[KAOS Agent]

So Zelena somehow got away from her kidnappers and escaped the Underworld? Damn it, Pan. You had one job.

 

Although knowing this show, Emma probably helped her because Zelena is family and she's really just misunderstood.

[KingOfHearts]

 

So Zelena somehow got away from her kidnappers and escaped the Underworld? Damn it, Pan. You had one job.

We're getting Zelena back but not Pan... or Cora... or Cruella. (Probably) That's sad.

[mjgchick]

I guess that's A&E's way to not get bored of them because they don't even write Snowing as individuals anymore and Robins nothing but a cardboard cut out. He'll get his yearly one episode a season because Robin Hood is a popular Disney character.

 

I'd love for Robin to disagree with Regina on something just once.

[Curio]

Is it just me or does the new sneak peek lack...energy?

 

Where's the passion in everyone? James makes out with Snow without her permission and she doesn't even slap him or get pissed off? She just stands there and doesn't do much except explain to the audience that it's David's brother? David isn't freaking out about knowing his brother was just there? Emma already sounds defeated and sullen and they haven't even been there a day? 

 

Sorry to nitpick, but if we're spending an entire season in the Underworld, I was kind of hoping the performances would at least bring a bit of urgency and comedy to lighten the mood. (Maybe that's why they thought the ridiculous scene chewing in the flashback would help, but I feel like that's going to come across like whiplash instead.)

[Writing Wrongs]

Why would James hate David? He didn't even know about him. Do they get updates in the UW?

[Rumsy4]

I liked the Sneak Peek. The Blind Witch was a surprisingly good cameo. Snow's reaction to James did seem lacking. Gold offering to help them--right... Team Nevengers better watch their backs. Also Gold--Killian did not die a Dark One. Thanks to You. But I have a feeling this is going to be the "excuse" for torturing  poor Hook.

[YaddaYadda]

Why would James hate David? He didn't even know about him. Do they get updates in the UW?

 

Seems like it. I mean James didn't know about David, and he died before David and Snow ever met. 

 

Maybe he resents that he was sold by his parents? That they chose to keep David over him? 

 

ETA - I don't know if anyone remembers, and I'm thinking Amerilla is the person who can answer my question. Was there ever any indication in the writing that Rumple was tortured in the Underworld? I can't remember, and I really don't wanna go through the Zelena/Rumple scenes, because my eyes!

Edited March 3, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

Rumple being tortured in the UW is the only reason why he could have described it as a terrible place in the 5A finale. Because, Underbrooke doesn't cut it, horror wise. So, maybe, having been a Dark One automatically sends a person straight down to the Tartarus-equivalent. But the thing is, Hook did not die a Dark One. So, I feel like the writers are going to be fiddling with semantics to justify the torture Hook is being put through. 

[oliverwendell]

 

Was there ever any indication in the writing that Rumple was tortured in the Underworld?

 

In the finale he alluded to the Underworld being a place of misery: "Speaking as one who's already been there....the Underworld is worse than you can possibly imagine. It will make you wish the old stories of fire and brimstone were true. It will make you wish for death. And then you'll realize that death has already come, and this fresh torture is all that's left." Since the Underworld doesn't seem to be all that torturous for the average dead soul, I'm betting the Underworld has a special dungeon for Dark Ones.

[Mathius]

So from filming spoilers, it looks like the entire Underworld and Hades arc is wrapped up in "Firebird".  "Last Rites", which is currently being filmed, appears to be the transitional episode between that arc and the two-part finale, which as usual will have almost nothing to do with the entire half-season that came before it and more focused on setting up Season 6.

 

Also, there is no way those two brothers for the finale and Season 6 are NOT Richard and John.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mathius

[Serena]

I'm excited for the new title so we can start having an idea what the two part finale will be like. Another kind of AU?

[Rumsy4]

Some people are speculating that the two brothers will be in fact, Jekyll and Hyde. That seems like an interesting idea. 

[KingOfHearts]

The Underworld looks like a lot of fun. It's probably intentionally subdued and dry in order to make everything feel dead. To put it another way, Underbrooke lacks life. I found it funny that the Blind Witch seems to have reformed a little. I feel sorry for Snow, though. She's so unsettled.

Edited March 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

Rumsy4, on 03 Mar 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Some people are speculating that the two brothers will be in fact, Jekyll and Hyde. That seems like an interesting idea. 

 

How could that be?  Jekyll and Hyde were two different personalities being manifested by the same man.  They weren't two separate individuals, much less brothers.

[Mathius]

Yeah, and casting two different people would make no sense, since Jekyll/Hyde has always been a coveted role for a single actor to display their range.

 

I'm telling you, it's going to be evil!Richard and good!John.

 

I found it funny that the Blind Witch seems to have reformed a little.

 

Yeah, it's ridiculous that one news source said there were "children on the menu"...and then here it turns out that this was just a joke and she only has gingerbread. Children would make no sense anyway; you can't cook and eat undead kids.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Why not? There are many possible ways for that to happen.

1. The ONCE-twist. Jekyll and Hyde are actually two different people. 

2. Fight Club. Jekyll doesn't realize that he is also Hyde. Either Jekyll thinks Hyde looks like a different person, or there is magic involved, and his alter-ego actually looks like a different person, needing two actors to play the two roles. 

[sharky]

How could that be?  Jekyll and Hyde were two different personalities being manifested by the same man.  They weren't two separate individuals, much less brothers.

Because A&E are so creative that this is the spin they're going to put on the classic J&H story. Oh what a twist OMG WTF LOL BBQ or whatever.

[Mathius]

The biggest issue with the theory is the "Hyde" guy sounds to be all about seeking power and doing away with family members.  That is a very blatant hint to him being royalty; Hyde never desired power, he just did evil for the fun of it.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

And Arthur was good, and Merlin wise.

 

Neither which we got to see. Arthur was a straight up crazy ass, and Merlin was the furthest thing from wise. I don't think we can really dismiss anything.

 

I'm not inclined to think it's John and Richard which I find really anti-climactic given that 5B is all about the Underworld. 

[Curio]

Yeah, I'm guessing they're not going to touch Jekyll and Hyde.

 

I was really hoping next season would focus on One Thousand and One Nights, but the casting call for the brothers doesn't seem to fit. Jasmine, Aladdin, Sinbad, and Ali Baba could easily fill up an entire season, and I don't want to see them squeezed into one half season...but they most likely will. 

[ABitOFluff]

I agree One Thousand and One Nights needs to be done!

 

I've hoped that they would go further into Greek mythology because there is so much more material that hasn't been touched on. Maybe when the dead leave the Underworld it causes the rest of the gods to descend on Storybrook. So the brothers could be Ares and Hephaestus. And if they continue with mythology, then we'd better see Athena and Emma teaming up.

[Selina K]

Is it just me or does the new sneak peek lack...energy?

 

Where's the passion in everyone? James makes out with Snow without her permission and she doesn't even slap him or get pissed off? She just stands there and doesn't do much except explain to the audience that it's David's brother? David isn't freaking out about knowing his brother was just there? Emma already sounds defeated and sullen and they haven't even been there a day?

 

The heroes felt kind of blah, but i did like James and the Blind Witch.  I think that's the most animated thing Josh Dallas has gotten to do on this show since the last time we saw James.

 

I will be annoyed if they're there for five minutes and Emma is all despondent.  They were not going to give you a neon flashing sign saying "This way!"

[Serena]

Remember this JMO quote we were talking about in the previous page?

 

"That’s been really fun for me, because it’s also been a chance to explore a part of Emma we haven’t seen before. It’s sort of like between the abuse and before the walls, so she’s highly emotional in a way we haven’t seen her before. That’s also been a fun experience, and it’s been fun to bounce that off some new the actors as well.”

 

She says the same thing kinda differently here:

 

"We’ll see a flashback episode where we see Emma between being hurt by Neal and before her walls have gone up.
So an emotionally unstable time in her life before she figured out how to be a bail bondsperson."

 

I hope you're prepared for JMO Facebook apology #565 when people pick up on the fact that she implied her relationship with Neal was "abuse". LOL!

[HoodlumSheep]

James must have been updated by one of the other villains or whoever in the Underworld, because otherwise he shouldn't know who Snow is (or at least that she's married to Charming and they love each other).

And Hook didn't die a Dark One. >:( Are we already getting our first continuity error? The episode hasn't even aired yet!

[KingOfHearts]

 

And Hook didn't die a Dark One. >:(

Does Rumple know that? I'm still a little confused about how that whole sacrifice thing worked.

 

 

James must have been updated by one of the other villains or whoever in the Underworld, because otherwise he shouldn't know who Snow is (or at least that she's married to Charming and they love each other).

Well, Snow was sort of a celebrity in the Enchanted Forest. I'm guessing he saw them walk into town and that Snow called him David.

[Rumsy4]

I hope you're prepared for JMO Facebook apology #565 when people pick up on the fact that she implied her relationship with Neal was "abuse". LOL!

And for Adam to distance himself from JMo's view point in Twitter.

[Curio]

And Hook didn't die a Dark One.

 

I think what Rumple meant is that Hook being a Dark One is what lead to his death. Not that he was physically a Dark One when his heart stopped beating.

 

And for Adam to distance himself from JMo's view point in Twitter.

 

I give it 3 hours.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

"We’ll see a flashback episode where we see Emma between being hurt by Neal and before her walls have gone up.

So an emotionally unstable time in her life before she figured out how to be a bail bondsperson."

 

But see, this has me wondering, because I always thought her walls were up after Neal and jail and giving up Henry for adoption, but it sounds like she was still somewhat okay, like she's vastly different from the woman we met in season 1.

 

So I have to wonder what happened that made those walls shoot up completely.

[Amerilla]

ETA - I don't know if anyone remembers, and I'm thinking Amerilla is the person who can answer my question. Was there ever any indication in the writing that Rumple was tortured in the Underworld? I can't remember, and I really don't wanna go through the Zelena/Rumple scenes, because my eyes!

 

YaddaYadda, I'm with the consensus here, I don't think there was any mention of Underworldly torture in 3B. (Or that Rumpel was in the Underworld...is the Dark One's Vault the same as the Underworld? A suburb of the Underworld?)  

 

Of course, this is the same season where both Rumpel and Henry ended in up Pandora's Freakin' Box, and I can't really point to a single line of dialog that indicated there was any impact of being locked in a box filled with the "world's darkest evils."

 

TS. TW

[Serena]

I interpreted it differently. I think, after she got out of prison, she was a mess, emotionally. She did go to Tallahassee hoping to find him. She was vulnerable. Then, I guess she meets this bailbondswoman and she gives Emma a few "toughen up" lessons, and her walls appear.

[mjgchick]

I'm thinking her walls fully go up when she loses yet another person in her life. Lily, Ingrid and Neal all screwed her over. Then she gives up Henry but I'm thinking Cleo was the last straw.

[kili]

I think that's the most animated thing Josh Dallas has gotten to do on this show since the last time we saw James.

 

I love it when Josh gets to be James. I'm still sad that they missed the boat having James romance Regina instead of the Sheriff of Nottingham. I hope we get to see a lot of James in the Underworld. It's a great opportunity to use the character.

[Mathius]

I'm not inclined to think it's John and Richard which I find really anti-climactic given that 5B is all about the Underworld. 

 

That would likely be the point, do something less dark and heavy than the Underworld rather than try to escalate things.

 

Given all the non-stop doom and gloom from 4B, 5A and 5B, I'd be more than up for that.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

 

That would likely be the point, do something less dark and heavy than the Underworld rather than try to escalate things.

Except A&E claim they always want to kick things up a notch with every new season... meaning it's probably going to be a freight train until the end of the show.

[Curio]

I'm not inclined to think it's John and Richard which I find really anti-climactic given that 5B is all about the Underworld.

 

I feel like it's pretty obvious it's going to be John and Richard at this point. So basically, everyone get ready for Robin to propose to Regina at the end of 5B, and 6A will be all about Sherwood Forest and that dastardly villain King "Dick" Richard trying to thwart their happy celebration at every turn. Snow and Emma will drop everything and help plan the wedding and the big wedding day will be the winter finale. And then maybe we'll finally get to the introduction of Jasmine and Aladdin.

[YaddaYadda]

Curio, you are painting a grim portrait.

 

The description about the power hungry bit, is this person going to be magical? Because you know, MAGIC! Or maybe this person figures out a way to get magic. Regina has magic, Emma has the most powerful light magic, Zelena dark magic, and Rumple is the darkest dark one to ever dark.

 

Looking forward to finding out who these dudes are.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The description about the power hungry bit, is this person going to be magical?

I'm not sure how you would do a magicless villain following freaking Hades unless you removed magic altogether. (But that's very doubtful.) 

 

 

Looking forward to finding out who these dudes are.

Yeah. Knowing Once's twists, it could be the same person split into two, or two icons that aren't typically brothers, or two brothers that have different personalities from what we know of them. The possibilities are endless.

 

A&E could combine Lion King and King John/Richard. That would be scary.

Edited March 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Are we finally going to get Henry and Robin scenes where they actually talk?

[InsertWordHere]

A&E could combine Lion King and King John/Richard. That would be scary.

It is kind of funny that John and Richard were lions in the Disney movie. Our Robin Hood has nothing on Disney's sexy fox, however.

[KingOfHearts]

So Black Tooth is in the Underworld... hmm.

[mjgchick]

This instagram filter has got to go.

[Curio]

So Black Tooth is in the Underworld... hmm.

 

Oh gosh...this is going to be the episode where Regina finally meets one of her dead victims, and she'll apologize to this one person, and it'll metaphorically represent her apologizing to the dozens and dozens of other people she's killed over of the years without actually having to face them, and then she'll be officially redeemed in the writers' eyes, isn't it?

[Serena]

Oh gosh...this is going to be the episode where Regina finally meets one of her dead victims, and she'll apologize to this one person, and it'll metaphorically represent her apologizing to the dozens and dozens of other people she's killed over of the years without actually having to face them, and then she'll be officially redeemed in the writers' eyes, isn't it?

No, she'll apologize to this dude, the dude will be pissed and attack her, and it will meraphorically represent that everyone she killed deserved it.

[Katherine]

So we know for sure that there's going to be a flashback of Liam and Hook. Do we know if Liam's going to be in the underworld as well, or has he moved on? I feel like Jennifer and Colin filmed a scene with Bernard but I'm having trouble keeping everything straight.

[YaddaYadda]

So we know for sure that there's going to be a flashback of Liam and Hook. Do we know if Liam's going to be in the underworld as well, or has he moved on? I feel like Jennifer and Colin filmed a scene with Bernard but I'm having trouble keeping everything straight.

 

That would be episode 5x15. There are flashbacks and present time. There are for sure scenes with Hook/Liam/Emma/Henry.

[sharky]

But we haven't seen Bernard on set since they filmed that episode, which I don't like. I want Liam back permanently!

[Katherine]

That would be episode 5x15. There are flashbacks and present time. There are for sure scenes with Hook/Liam/Emma/Henry.

Thanks. I'm glad they seem to be taking advantage of some of the family dynamics, like Emma/Hook/Liam, Milah/Emma, etc.