Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

I've been thinking that hook might revert to Lt. Jones in the underworld. He would be united with his brother and he would be the man he was meant to be had his path never crossed the Stilskin clan. 

 

That would be kinda sweet to have Emma meet Lt. Jones. All aboard Lieutenant Swan! 

Is Killian's unfinished business with Liam (guilt he couldn't save him) or his father (needing to accept and forgive)?

 

I guess---both?

Is it too much to hope for an angsty kiss in the rain?

 

I'm not sure we will be getting any CS kisses until they rescue Hook. We don't know if he has his memories, or even if it is not just a vision Emma sees. 

While I do enjoy Mulan and Ruby, I really don't want another random 5x09 episode in the Enchanted forest if it doesn't have anything to do with the main plot. 

 

I have a feeling Mulan and Red are conveniently in Storybrook now. That way, they might be part of a Storybrooke episode like they did in the Neverland arc with Belle and Ariel. 

[mjgchick]

If Zelena manages to find her way back to Storybrook they can have Mulan and Red protect the babies and Red can reunite with Granny.

[KateJones]

I'm envisioning that when CS reunites there will be at least one scene, if not a whole episode, where he doesn't believe she's real and thinks she's a vision.

[InsertWordHere]

If he's aware that this is the afterlife, I'm thinking he's going to see her and think she's dead. 

[Watt]

I am strangely turned on by both of those scenarios, just to see how Colin plays it. I hope he gets lots and lots of work after this show is over. (Many years from now, I hope, I'm on the "I don't give a crap how convoluted it gets as long as Hook & Emma are on it" train- in it for the long haul)

[Shanna Marie]

I find it rather amusing that while the teaser promo carefully avoided showing us any glimpse of Hook in the Underworld or any indication that he might be alive -- the opposite, given the tombstone with his name on it -- the writers and actor didn't even try to pull a Game of Thrones and even pretend that there was the slightest possibility that he wouldn't be back. They did immediate aftermath interviews talking about the fact that he definitely wasn't gone for good.

 

In spite of what I said about trying to curtail the mental fanfic, I caught myself imagining a scenario in which Hook was in the season one Emma role in Scarybrooke, helping people find their happy endings without knowing or believing who he really is or what's really going on. But then I remembered that we've seen the rest of the cast out and about in Scarybrooke with nary a Hook sighting. So if that's what he's doing, it's all interiors. I'm still trying to figure out what the "shocking" thing about how we see him is and whether or not it connects to the concept of whether there can be hope in the Underworld (I'm not sure there's hope in the living world on this show).

[HoodlumSheep]

Dorothy's returning? That's an unexpected choice. I wonder if we'll see Glinda or Walsh (don't know if he's actually dead or not) again. Speaking of Glinda, is she still trapped in that snow dimension?

Anyways, huh. Okay, then.

[kili]

I'm still trying to figure out what the "shocking" thing about how we see him is

 

He's Flotsam or Jetsam to Real Ursula? That's all I can think about everytime I see "shiocking".

[YaddaYadda]

Why is Dorothy returning? I mean why?

[SiobhanJW]

Are we going to Oz after we leave the Underworld? Or since Jen & Colin have been filming have they ended up in Oz? Is it possible the theory of the gang helping people complete their unfinished business is the reason why maybe Emma & Hook end up there? Hades won't let him leave until he does X, Y and Z?

Edited December 8, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[kili]

Why is Dorothy returning? I mean why?

 

Clearly, there were not enough characters in 5B yet. They still haven't finished dealing with all the characters from 5A, so let's just keep throwing characters and arcs at the wall.

 

Maybe Dorothy kills Zelena and that is why she is in the Underworld interacting with Killian? They couldn't let Regina kill her, so let us bring back Dorothy?

 

I don't understand what Dorothy's problem is with Zelena. Sure, Zelena pretended to want to harm her, but Dorothy should either think she's dead or, if she knows the true story, gave Dorothy some very valuable shoes and sent her home.  So, she should either see her as dead or a crazy Aunt that takes jokes a little far.

 

If Dorothy really is coming back to set things right, then Zelena was probably right about being replaced and Glinda is a liar. Glinda is probably Merlin's cousin. Those two are all about prophesies which are rock solid until they are not and terrible, terrible advice which cause a lot of harm.

[Curio]

Why is Dorothy returning? I mean why?

 

You'd think by now we would all be used to this show bringing in totally random side characters who are completely useless to the overall plot, and yet...they always manage to top themselves.

[Mari]

How likely is it that the "shocking" way we see Hook is not only without memories of Emma, but married with possible kids to Milah?

 

After all--Snow had to overcome David's marriage to Katherine, Regina had to overcome Robin's marriage to Marian . . .

 

 

(And, yes, I did wince a little when I put this out into the universe.   Sorry.  It's just the soapiest thing I could think of, and you know how A&E are with their soapy plotliines.)

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

 

Dorthy's back. I'd like to say it's because The Wiz Live was a success last week but probably not.

Are they trying to get adult Dorothy in before Emerald City goes on TV? Unless other characters are going there, I couldn't care less about Oz. A&E have shown from the beginning they don't either. It's just another random Zelena adventure like Heart of Gold or Kansas. It's probably a break after some pivotal episode happens.

 

Dorothy would be closer to 45 in age now.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Dorothy's return is idiotic, but to be expected.

The Show goes on and on about choice, but fate or prophecy plays a major role in the story. "Found" families were a big deal in S1/2A, when suddenly blood ties became the most important ones.

So, of course Dorothy will be the one to defeat and kill Zelena, as the prophecy predicted.

[KingOfHearts]

 

So, of course Dorothy will be the one to defeat and kill Zelena, as the prophecy predicted.

I would have enjoyed it more if Dorothy joined the Home Office, was out of the loop for S3, then found Storybrooke. It's annoying that Oz is so cloistered away from the rest of the show. It's so irrelevant.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

You'd think by now we would all be used to this show bringing in totally random side characters who are completely useless to the overall plot, and yet...they always manage to top themselves.

Dorothy was so useless in Kansas, and the actress was very lackluster. 

 

I can't believe they're putting us (me) through this is a second time. 

 

I think Zelena wants her slippers back since she gave them to Dorothy in Kansas, and she needs to cross realms to get back to Pistachio. 

[kili]

Dorothy was so useless in Kansas, and the actress was very lackluster.

 

Is it going to be the same actress? I thought they were going to cast an older actress because she is now 20-30 years old. The events in Oz happened several years before the curse. Regina was just starting her training and Zelena showed up. When she found out that Rumple prefered Regina (because she wouldn't use his heart), she returned to Oz to turn Walsh into a flying monkey. Glinda hits her up to join the gang and right after that Dorothy shows up.

 

Of course, since Kansas was not cursed, there is no explanation why Dorothoy really isn't in her late 40s other than this is tv and women on TV go to the Carousel when they turn 40.  Or maybe it's a flashback and how Zelena ended up in the EF instead of staying in Oz.

[YaddaYadda]

Is it going to be the same actress? I thought they were going to cast an older actress because she is now 20-30 years old.

 

I didn't read the article. I saw Dorothy is coming back, and the picture of the actress who had originally played her. I face palmed, and ninja'd out of that article.

 

I get why she's coming back. She has Zelena's way back to Storybrooke. Zelena is gonna want those slippers back, so I guess yay for continuity?

[Mathius]

Yeah, Dorothy is an adult now, and it will be a new actress.

I don't see the problem. It actually makes use of that plot element in "Kansas" concerning that prophecy about Dorothy freeing Oz from its greatest evil that was nowhere CLOSE to fulfilled, and it will be a good explanation behind why Zelena is either in Storybrooke (silver slippers) or the Underworld (Dorothy kills her, which I personally suspect will happen.)

Plus, if Zelena is going to be a regular, she ought to have one centric, as should Robin (we've been told his is coming.) That way they avoid the fate poor Will Scarlet received in Season 4.

[Shanna Marie]

Of course, since Kansas was not cursed, there is no explanation why Dorothoy really isn't in her late 40s other than this is tv and women on TV go to the Carousel when they turn 40.

She has the same kind of aging as Guinevere, who was maybe at most two years younger than Arthur when they were kids, but when they're adults and he's in his mid to late 30s, she's around a decade younger than he is and in her twenties.

 

I love their way to "focus on our core characters" by bringing back everyone who's ever been on the show.

[YaddaYadda]

If Dorothy kills Zelena, and she lands in the Underworld, are they going to bring her back with them to Storybrooke? I can't imagine anyone wanting to split their heart with her, their soul, or wanting Hades to release her.

[Mathius]

Her magic pendant is still in Regina's crypt vault. That could be a loophole.

Or she could not be revived, and she makes her peace with Cora and stays with her.

I love their way to "focus on our core characters" by bringing back everyone who's ever been on the show

Ironically, in THIS case I think they might be on to something, since so many of these dead characters have personal connection to the core cast and their return is a great way to explore and develop the core cast....but after 2 full seasons' worth (3B through 5A) of Adam and Eddy making this claim while it proves to be complete poppycock, these boys may have just cried wolf one too many time. The core cast may get focus, but fewer people will watch it. Edited December 8, 2015 by Mathius

[Mari]

That's right--I'd forgotten that they were bringing back the Baelfire actor, for a minute.

 

Any chance he's living with Milah?

[Watt]

Maybe Hades doesn't want Zelena and gives her back free of charge.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm pretty sure they're bringing in Neal, and I think that might be the main reason Henry is there with them, so that he can get that closure he needs with his father.

[Shanna Marie]

Ironically, in THIS case I think they might be on to something, since so many of these dead characters have personal connection to the core cast and their return is a great way to explore and develop the core cast.

That's true for most of the returning characters, who all have relationships with the main characters. Cora is Regina's mother, was Rumple's lover and Hook's ally/friend, and was killed by Snow. Pan is Rumple's father, Hook's longtime enemy, and interacted with everyone in Team Underworld other than Robin during the Neverland adventure. Cruella held Henry hostage and was killed by Emma, and interacted with a lot of the others while she was in Storybrooke. Bae is Rumple's son, Henry's father, Emma's ex, and Hook's friend. (Boy, Robin's really the odd man out here.) But Dorothy never met anyone other than Zelena, who isn't really a core cast member. Her inclusion screams of yet another random side story, a la the Ruby/Mulan/Merida episode.

[chrisvee]

I just don't care about Dorothy freeing Oz from Zelena's tyranny. I'm interested in the core characters. It's like they are constantly trying out potential spinoff shows.

Edited December 9, 2015 by chrisvee

[SiobhanJW]

I love how everyone is rolling with the Pistachio name. It's cracking me up.

[Rumsy4]

I'm pretty sure they're bringing in Neal, and I think that might be the main reason Henry is there with them, so that he can get that closure he needs with his father.

 

It would be odd to go to the UW, and not have Henry meet up with his father, not to mention Rumple/Neal. But it all depends on contract negotiations, and whether any bridges were burnt. 

 

Some people are expecting love triangles between Neal/Hook/Emma or Hook/Milah/Emma. I know it's the same writers who gave us the Marian drama, but there is no way the writers will go there. For one thing, it seems kind of tasteless to revive love triangles in Hell. And for another, all the parties have moved on. It's clear that Emma and Hook love each other more than they have ever loved any of their past lovers. I am looking forward to the Emma and Milah meeting.  And it would be nice for Henry to get some closure about his father's death. I just hope the writers handle any past-lovers meetings in a good manner. 

 

On a related note, why are some fans still expecting Emma-related love triangles involving Neal? Is it that they think Emma still holds a candle to Neal, or is it because people are unable to accept Emma moved on? I simply can't see people like Hook, Emma, or even Regina going back and forth between past and present lovers. If Regina met Daniel in the UW, she wouldn't feel conflicted between him and Robin either. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Pistachio, Green Bean...I'm currently waiting for Graham 2.0 so I can call the baby Grahamcracker.

If we're seeing Oz, I want the flying monkeys back. Those suckers were kind of scaryish. The fact that they could spread flyingmonkey-itis around was cool. That's one thing I don't get, if I was Zelena and had just gotten my magic back, I'd be turning people into flying monkeys left and right.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe Hades doesn't want Zelena and gives her back free of charge.

Maybe he's just trying to space out the Mills girls so he doesn't have to deal with two at once. Once Cora finishes her business, he can take on Regina or Zelena. But until then he'll probably keep them alive as much as possible.

 

Love how Oz is full of witches and magically powerful beings, yet Dorothy is the only one can stop Zelena from waltzing in and taking over.

Edited December 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Some people are expecting love triangles between Neal/Hook/Emma or Hook/Milah/Emma. I know it's the same writers who gave us the Marian drama, but there is no way the writers will go there. For one thing, it seems kind of tasteless to revive love triangles in Hell. And for another, all the parties have moved on. It's clear that Emma and Hook love each other more than they have ever loved any of their past lovers. I am looking forward to the Emma and Milah meeting.  And it would be nice for Henry to get some closure about his father's death. I just hope the writers handle any past-lovers meetings in a good manner. 

 

I'm not expecting Neal/Emma/Hook, but we have been told that Hook's unlife is  . . . shocking? . . . I think.  The most obviously shocking thing I could think of for someone who'd just sacrificed himself because he loved someone, was to be memory stripped and married.  Since the show has already gone there with David Nolan/Katherine, and had Robin/Regina/Marian drama, and loves to recycle,  I would be unsurprised to see an episode or two where Hook has a regular job like fisherman or sheriff and is married to the local crossing guard, Milah.

 

I don't expect huge amounts of relationship angst, since I don't think they have the patience for that, and I know Emma/Hook are endgame, provided both are on the show, but these writers have never been accused of being overly tasteful.

 

After all, we have a Pistachio, stolen product of rape, being raised by the rapist's unrepentant rapist sister, who is besties with the stepdaughter and stepgranddaughter she repeatedly tried to murder.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

 

I would be unsurprised to see an episode or two where Hook has a regular job like fisherman or sheriff and is married to the local crossing guard, Milah.

Then how do we see Hook's "grave" in the Underworld in the promo?

[Rumsy4]

Then how do we see Hook's "grave" in the Underworld in the promo?

 

Phew! Thank you for reminding me! I don't think Hook will be married to Milah in the UW. It's not a shocking twist as Hook and Milah were in a relationship at one point. (Now if it was Hook and Cruella... No. I won't put it out there... lol). I don't think he's in Scarybrooke at all. That's most likely a "level" the Nevengers need to get through to reach Hook. 

 

With all the filming spoilers we have so far, it's more likely that Hook is Hades' minion in some way, with his memories wiped for added angst (because the writers "love" amnesia). If he has been filming at all, it's been in-studio. If they are going by Greek Mythology, Hook may have been given the role of the god of death, Thanatos. If they are taking their cues from the Disney movie, then yeah--Pain or Panic is likely. Colin would enjoy doing some comedy. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Emma involved in a triangle with Neal and Hook would make zero sense since she's going to the UW to retrieve Hook. Maybe she'll change her mind and get Neal instead. And I don't see a Milah/Hook/Emma triangle either.

 

People in the Underworld are basically in limbo, and waiting to move on. Maybe Milah has been waiting for Hook all this time so that she can move on, ditto for Liam. And maybe Neal is still around because he's waiting for Henry to move on. 

 

Cora is probably just waiting for Hades' death, which will never happen, so she'll just be there as Underbrooke's mayor.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm pretty sure Underbrooke is only a stopping point for 5B and an excuse to see some famous characters. They might get some assistance from the UW citizens (or antagonism), but it'll probably be dedicated to Rumple and Regina. The latter half I'm guessing will be part of a bigger plot than just #SaveHook and might return to the land of the living. Underworld is here for fun more than anything. I doubt it will receive as much focus as we think after the 100th.

 

I'm honestly hoping Rumple dies by the end of the season and S6 is without Dark Ones.

Edited December 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Emma involved in a triangle with Neal and Hook would make zero sense since she's going to the UW to retrieve Hook. Maybe she'll change her mind and get Neal instead. And I don't see a Milah/Hook/Emma triangle either.

I know it makes little sense, but I've seen this pop up in a couple of different places. They're probably hopeful SF shippers, but still...

Will Milah be terrified at meeting Rumple if she has her memories?

If the UW is like limbo for dead people to work through their issues, does it mean people like Cora and Pan still have a chance of gaining "redemption"? Will people be stuck for eternity if they never resolve their issues? What happens after limbo?

[YaddaYadda]

Will Milah be terrified at meeting Rumple if she has her memories?

If the UW is like limbo for dead people to work through their issues, does it mean people like Cora and Pan still have a chance of gaining "redemption"? Will people be stuck for eternity if they never resolve their issues? What happens after limbo?

 

I don't think Milah will be terrified of Rumple. For one she's never been scared of him, for another, I think they will say that Milah and Rumple met up before, during his brief trip down there before he was resurrected by Neal. He's standing there introducing her to Emma, which is just beyond weird. I'm assuming Rumple might wanna cause some discord.

 

Regarding redemption...I'm gonna go ahead and assume that 5B will also be filled with plot holes like 5A was. I still wanna know what Merlin was up to, but we will never find out now. Talk about going out with a whimper.

[Camera One]

Dorothy is probably the name of the baby.

 

I really want Leopoldo to appear and his unfinished business is with Regina and how badly he failed Snow by taking Regina as a wife. Regina killed him, usurp snow's rightful place, tried to kill his daughter and granddaughter.

 

It's this show, so his unfinished business is being a distant husband to Regina and excluding her.  Eva is probably in the Underworld too since she must atone for everything she did to ruin Cora's life. 

[chrisvee]

I love how everyone is rolling with the Pistachio name. It's cracking me up.

Tashi for short.

I love the idea that A&E aren't tasteless enough for love triangles in the UW. Really? In a show full of dubious consent to outright rape?? I definitely think they could sink that low. But not with Emma or Hook they have totally moved on.

Hook is being kept somewhere close to Hades. Maybe he's Persephone lol.

Edited December 9, 2015 by chrisvee

[didia]

I feel sorry for Liam if he has been in Underbrooke all this time. It is worse than Neverland.

[Camera One]

It'll be random as hell who will be in the Underworld and who won't.

[Hookian]

Holy crap Leanne's new article. Captain Swan TLK practically confirmed!

[babyPhat279]

From one of the articles:

 

The 100th episode is the spring premiere and we've been on for five years and for us in this second half our real goal was to have a very season one vibe and I think that will be apparent after people see the premiere in spring.

 

I'm taking that as everyone in the UW has been cursed with fake memories and is living a Groundhog's Day existence.

[Camera One]

Don't they say there's a Season 1 vibe every half-season?  I vaguely remember them saying that for 5A, and it was nothing like Season 1.

[chrisvee]

Fake memories make sense. It's flash sideways all over again!

Until you progress enough to break the cycle or Hades exempts you. Cora seems in command of herself. And Pan.

If that TLK is anyone else, there may be riots. :) It should break a memory curse right?

I wonder if the Nevengers are subject to losing their memories the longer they stay? Or if there is danger eating or drinking?

[Mathius]

It's going to be like S1 in that there's a cursed town with miserable inhabitants and the goal will be to bring back their happiness...or in this case, provide them with closure so that they can get out of the Underworld and move on upward.

[mjgchick]

So whose the Savior in Underbrook? Or is it still Emma? lol

[Souris]

I'm not betting my house on the TLK being CS, but it had damn well better be after all the teases & failed ones this season.

 

"A lot of Regina." Not that it wasn't 100% expected, but blech.