Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[FabulousTater]

Goddamnit, I'm raising my expectations too high. Where's that "lower your expectations" gif when you need it...

Here ya go:

[Curio]

Aha! Thanks FabulousTater!

 

Edit: Oh, this is kind of a bad post to start off the top of a thread. Okay, I still don't get how Isaac is allowed to pick and choose who's a "villain" and who's a "hero" in his story. Didn't we just spend the last 20 episodes being told that things aren't black and white and that people aren't all good or all evil? And if Regina was technically a "hero" in Storybrooke, why is she given a hero role in this new book? If this were any other show, that'd probably be a subtle clue that Regina is actually a bit more villain-leaning in the real world, but I doubt that's the writers' intention here.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Curio

[mjgchick]

So Emma is still Emma during this whole thing?

[OnceUponAJen]

Okay, speculation time.

So we kind of know the general plot of the finale now—Henry has to give one of the good guys their happy ending to stop Isaac's AU plot. What if Emma and Hook somehow accidentally meet up because of Henry's meddling, and since they're True Loves/each others happy ending, that freaks Isaac out and has to kill off Hook before they rekindle their relationship before the bells toll. Which is why we have a bigger focus on Plan B (no, not that one...although Zelena really should look into it), which is reuniting Regina and Robin and crashing the wedding.

Is it possible that Hook meets Emma before he meets Milah? I mean, does Milah even exist.....or was she ever married to Rumple in this story? Presumably not, or if so they parted ways in a different manner. I don't watch sneak peeks, but does Hook have his hook in them? He could have lost his hand another way. Edited May 8, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[KingOfHearts]

 

before they rekindle their relationship before the bells toll. Which is why we have a bigger focus on Plan B (no, not that one...although Zelena really should look into it), which is reuniting Regina and Robin and crashing the wedding.

I'm guessing the bells are the wedding bells for the Outlaw Green wedding?

Edited May 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I've been wondering the same thing myself about Regina.  Being a bandit isn't exactly glamorous, but Snow was a hero to the people and they did everything they could to protect her at the expense of their lives at times.  

 

I'm  thinking that the reason Regina is bandit!Snow is maybe that Regina will finally let go of the whole Daniel thing because she gets to walk a mile in Snow's shoes.  I said a while ago that the reason Snow is the way she is with Regina is because of her own unresolved issues regarding Daniel's death.  So I guess Regina gets to feel Snow's guilt and Snow gets to feel Regina's pain or whatever contrivance we're going to be witness to.  If they're about to put the whole issue to rest where I never have to hear "you told a secret", I'll be happy.

 

David is a black knight complete with guyliner, the same thing Josh has been sort of poking fun at whenever someone asks him if he approves of Hook, he makes a crack about the guyliner.  If David's story is going to follow Graham's story, then he falls prey to Evil!Snow because he tries to save Regina's life.  Hook turned pirate because his brother died due to lies their king told them.  

 

It almost seems like this whole reversal is for people to reach a new understanding between each other.

 

I don't care about Robin or Zelena or Belle.  And Rumple is clearly off his rocker. 

 

ETA:

 

 

 

I'm guessing the bells are the wedding bells for the Wicked Outlaw wedding?

 

Bells can toll for a wedding, but they also toll for a death.  I have a hard time believing that the book ends with Robin and Zelena's wedding.  How anti-climactic!

Edited May 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

I'm guessing the bells are the wedding bells for the Outlaw Green wedding?

 

Yeah, smart money is on wedding bells. And I love the name "Outlaw Green." Maybe we can just let those two crazy kids get married and ditch them both for Season 5.

[retrograde]

Henry was... well, Henry, but I did enjoy Robert as super cheesy hero Rumple in that sneak.

[Curio]

Bells can toll for a wedding, but they also toll for a death. I have a hard time believing that the book ends with Robin and Zelena's wedding. How anti-climactic!

 

Haven't we already established this author guy is a hack? It's pretty fitting that he thinks the "best idea ever" is to end the story with a Robin/Zelena wedding.

[YaddaYadda]

Robin/Zelena wedding

 

Then I hope the last line is "and they lived happily ever after".  I mean it's fitting if his book starts with "Once upon a time".

[Mathius]

Maybe it'll be a Red Wedding! "The Sheriff of Nottingham sends his regards!"

Henry was... well, Henry, but I did enjoy Robert as super cheesy hero Rumple in that sneak.

He's clearly having more fun here than he has had the rest of 4B.

[sharky]

Is it possible that Hook meets Emma before he meets Milah? I mean, does Milah even exist.....or was she ever married to Rumple in this story? Presumably not, or if so they parted ways in a different manner. I don't watch sneak peeks, but does Hook have his hook in them? He could have lost his hand another way.

He has his hook in the preview when he's fighting Dark Charming. Clash of the Guyliner! :-) But we don't know how he gets the hook -- maybe Milah is still in his past or maybe something else happens to his hand.

[Watt]

I'm not even going to pretend I didn't find Isaac weirdly sexy in Sneak Peek 2.

[Mathius]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/once-upon-a-time-finale-operation-mongoose-theories/

[KingOfHearts]

6. Zelena (Rebecca Mader) may die

She's preggers and A&E are in love with her. So no, this isn't happening.

 

9. Henry may die

We're not so lucky.

 

 

Co-creator Adam Horowitz adds, "There is a death that precedes [the change in condition.]"

I actually anticipate multiple deaths. Rumple, Emma, Hook, the Author and the Apprentice are all suitable candidates for deaths either temporary and permanent. As for the change in condition... if the Author died, would that change people's personalities? I'm thinking back to Into the Woods when the Narrator died. The characters were forced to make their own stories and choices. Isaac's magic would be undone, and who knows what he's messed with. Maybe that's the reason they've been so cryptic about what has actually manipulated over the years.

 

The Dagger stuff is pretty convincing. It points to Emma being the target of the climax that catapults 5A. If she "died", would that change the condition of the show in a way magic did? They wouldn't kill her off permanently, right? ... right?!

Edited May 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

Talk about burying the lede(s). Why is TV Guide burying actual new info under a bunch of half baked speculation?

 

Here is what I pulled out:

 

"We will be telling you what next year is about in the final scene," Kitsis says. "Whereas last year we saw Frozen, and the year before we were going to Neverland, this will be much more like Season 1 in that it's going to be a change in condition." Co-creator Adam Horowitz adds, "There is a death that precedes [the change in condition.]"

 

 

Kitsis says that the Belle-Gold-Will love triangle "will absolutely be ending. We'll get a conclusion on that."

 

[Shanna Marie]

Kitsis says that the Belle-Gold-Will love triangle "will absolutely be ending. We'll get a conclusion on that."

Oh dear, they're going to have her realize her feelings for Rumple, no matter how many times he's screwed her over, aren't they? And they'll consider it romantic.

 

It's too much to hope that the triangle gets resolved with something like, "Wait, you're married? And before that, my husband was cheating on me with evil power. I give up. Can I become a nun even if I'm not a fairy?"

[Mathius]

It's going to be Rumple. I can't imagine why the dagger would be in play if it isn't him, plus the way he's been used and that RC only took one episode off (4x05) as opposed to his usual three makes me wonder if he's altered his contract so that he's still a regular next season but doesn't appear often outside of flashbacks or possible ghost-Rumple moments. It'd be like MRJ in Season 3, who was a regular but wasn't in many episodes plus appeared only briefly in several others (he literally only had half of the season with substance to work with.)

[retrograde]

Is it possible that the writers have been so blasé about Will and his storyline because the actor is leaving the show? At this point, if he got a better offer, I can imagine they might let him go.

[FabulousTater]

The Dagger stuff is pretty convincing. It points to Emma being the target of the climax that catapults 5A. If she "died", would that change the condition of the show in a way magic did? They wouldn't kill her off permanently, right? ... right?!

Shit. That's what I was thinking too, KingOfHearts.

 

Original Dark Curse 1.0 was setup so that if Emma died, it automatically broke The Curse (I think they also said that if Emma died Storybrooke would cease to exist along with breaking the curse). I know this is Storybrooke 2.0 under Dark Curse 2.0, but since Emma is still The Savior and apparently still pivotal to getting everyone their happy ending (at least that's what they've been hitting us over the head with all of 4B) then it stands to reason that she's somehow tied to Dark Curse 2.0 and her death means a change in Storybrooke's condition.

 

I tell ya, if they kill Emma I will be so GD pissed. Like on the cusp of sending mean tweets to A&E and their cows kinds of pissed (which is something I would never do because I'm not a teenage drama queen). I'm getting cranky right now just thinking about the possibility. The only bright side is that if they kill Emma off, I could finally be free of this goddamn show and -- hate to say it -- that would be a relief.

 

 

9. Henry may die

 

We're not so lucky.

Word, KoH. So much word.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FabulousTater

[retrograde]

I still don't think they'd ever change Emma in any fundamental or permanent way. 

[FabulousTater]

Except...these writers aren't as smart as they think they are. Things they consider cool and ground breaking I generally consider shit. So killing or changing Emma in a fundamental way? If they think it would be a cool "twist" then I see them totally doing it and not giving a second thought to the repercussions.

[Mathius]

If Emma dies, we all know she'll get brought back in the Season 5 debut, so who cares?

[FabulousTater]

If Emma dies, we all know she'll get brought back in the Season 5 debut, so who cares?

Well, I care because we're speculating about what if she really dies, as in permanent death, and not just a faux death (which Emma's faux death is something we've already ruminated on in the past ever since the dagger scene spoiler pics were leaked by the set stalkers).

 

The spoilers just now released in the TVGuide interview with A&E lends a bit of credence to the idea of Emma's death being permanent. That's what my spoiler speculation was in regards to.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Souris]

I don't think they will, but if they kill Emma or Hook -- for realsies, permanently and no take-backs -- I am doner than done with this show. There would not be even a 0.00000000000000000000000000001% chance I would watch another second it. I would miss you fun people like crazy, but I would run far away from anything Once-related and not look back.

 

We know Robert wrapped several days ahead of the rest of the cast. My money would be on Rumple for the death, but RC would be back in a limited role next season in flashbacks, dream sequences and the like. Hell, Michael Socha was a regular this season for 20 minutes of screen time.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Souris

[FabulousTater]

Ya, IA Souris. The odds I think are still in favor of Rumpel being the most sincerely dead character, but when it comes down to it, I just don't trust A&E.

[KingOfHearts]

Emma could "die" and then get reincarnated as the Dark One, I suppose. That fits the "both temporary and permanent" spoiler. The way we knew her would die. It could be a question of getting old Emma back. Maybe she gets sent to the Dark One's vault?

Granted this all sounds incredibly convoluted. But it's the kind of magic logic this show is destined to go with. I really, really doubt Emna as a whole is gone for good. They might do the Evil Locke thing, which would be a little frightening.

Edited May 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

I still think the death is Rumple. They just say the death precedes the change in condition, so I think it's going to be something like this: Rumple dies because of his black heart, the Dark One magic is freed and Emma takes it before it kills Regina/destroys Storybrooke/whatever. The change in condition is either Emma as the new Dark One or magic disappearing.

Emma's story is far from finished and, if she was going to really die, the dagger scene would have been blocked and A&E would have been sending more criptic messages in her interviewd about it, but they barely mention her. And, after all the things he has done this season, there is nothing else they can do with Rumple.

[KAOS Agent]

No matter what anyone says about X person being the most popular character, if they killed off Emma, they'd lose half the audience. I mean that. It's not that I think Emma is everyone's favorite, but you can't have a show about hope and kill off the one person who was completely innocent but has suffered for everyone else's mistakes and still selflessly stuck around to help these morons. Just no. You people are creating some horrible images in my mind. God can you imagine a Henry & Author centric finale that ends with Emma's death? There is not enough alcohol in the world to get me through that.

[retrograde]

The death might also be the author. 

[myril]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/once-upon-a-time-finale-operation-mongoose-theories/

 

The most interesting tidbit IMO in the TVGuide article: the picture revealing under which name the Author has published his book. Name on the book is Isaac Heller. And TVGuide brings in Catch-22 by Joseph Heller.

 

catch-22 = "A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently contradictory rules or conditions" (freedicitonary.com)

 

I so can see A&E doing that. I am no Lost expert, but wasn't there something like that too?

 

So, despite that the execution in writing over the season was mediocre at best, and don't expect better for the finale, the basic idea with the Author and a situation where the desired outcome can't be reached in any way could make sense, if that is what they're heading for, a catch-22.

 

If the villains get the happy endings, and for that are turned into more or less the good guys, as is hinted at in the sneak peeks, how then can they still be called villains getting their happy endings? Don't they become the heroes? So, per rule of the Author for his book, villains getting the happy ending, the villains now heroes would be condemned to have no happy ending? While the good guys turned evil still get the happy ending the Author didn't want them to have? At least that is, if the Author can't actually change the basic rule for the fictional worlds, that villains don't get happy endings, so he has to turn the villains heroes in his book. Or the villains, at least those left,  can't get over the idea, that getting their happy ending only could work if they turn more or less heroes or at least would be un-villained.

 

Unless someone would fully embrace being evil and enjoy as happy ending destruction or ruling everyone with fear or something like that - which none of the villains at the moment around in OUaT seem to have as their desire, unless they resurrect Pan and Cruella, the villains don't get a happy ending without turning to do good things.

 

Not to mention, the writers have the situation of at least two villains being now in a kind of twilight zone, Hook and Regina. Regardless if we here all agree about Regina having truly changed or not, save to assume the writers do work with it being a given. Raising the question, why does Regina end up on the good side in Isaac's twisted fictional world?

 

Could be an interesting meta - but nothing for a silly fantasy and soap opera as OUaT is. Shoes too big to fill. If it had been build up with a lot more care and sensitivity for a complex story, could have been a grand scheme for a final season, go out with a big bang in the end, bringing Storybrooke fully into the real world, no fiction and fantasy left for them, finally people in our world without magic, but quite happy endings. Or all back to where they belong, but with happy (hero) endings. But, oh well.

 

Rumple as White Knight and Henry saving the day with brains or courage, it's as silly as it can get. It doesn't surprise me though at all, that Henry seems to play some bigger role in the finale, after all he always had a strong connection to the books, the show started pretty much with the book and Henry. Another reason why I think this could have been a great last act. If they had found a better way in between to bring Emma to her ordeal, lowest point, be it even turn her dark for a moment (stage 8 of 12 in the hero's journey, or possible we are already at stage 11, the resurrection, with Emma, then season 5 should be the last), and build a redemption arc for Regina with much more effort, but the shiny-toy-syndrome has done little good to the story telling. Pity.

 

Will probably nevertheless have some superficial fun with the finale, silly fun.

Edited May 8, 2015 by myril

[FurryFury]

I just really hope Rumple dies (he deserves no less after this season) and then we'll get his spirit advising Emma in season 5, after which he's gone permanently while redeeming himself somewhat (and we get to finally explore the Dark One mythology and maybe fairies). I want for Emma to have scenes with somebody that's not Regina and Lily (and we all know that A&E don't care about Snowing) and her and Rumple really haven't been explored at all. At this set-up just seems interesting to me, I dunno.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[Serena]

Leanne spoiled what Hook's change of chararcter is. Apparently, he's not a coward, he's "befuddled". So Rumple becomes a brave knight and Hook is the bumbling farmer/spinner/etc.

 

EDIT: oh, and she may or may not be trolling CS shippers by posting a coffee emoticon as a "hint".

Edited May 8, 2015 by Serena

[Rumsy4]

Leanne spoiled what Hook's change of character is. Apparently, he's not a coward, he's "befuddled". So Rumple becomes a brave knight and Hook is the bumbling farmer/spinner/etc.

 

EDIT: oh, and she may or may not be trolling CS shippers by posting a coffee emoticon as a "hint".

 

Best two spoilers yet.... 

 

If Michael Socha is  gone after this season, A&E ruined the Wonderland finale for nothing. 

 

Maybe the change of condition is that everyone reverts to their Cursed Personalities. Except for people who don't have a Cursed Identity. 

[OnceUponAJen]

If they dared to kill either Emma or Hook permanently, I'd be so gone from this show. I suspect many people would, so I doubt it's going to happen. I think the change in the town's condition could be magic disappears. Or maybe Storybrooke relocates to the EF?

[FurryFury]

Or maybe Storybrooke relocates to the EF?

 

If only...

[kili]

If they dared to kill either Emma or Hook permanently, I'd be so gone from this show.

 

I'm quite convinced that there is no danger of Emma dying anytime soon. She has so much story left to tell. Hook, I'm less sure about because they seem to have nothing to write for him, but he seems safe from the BTS pictures. Likewise, I think Regina, Robin, Charming and Snow are safe. I'm just not seeing an episode where they are in the climatic scene (which I chose to believe the dagger scene to be) and then they die in the next scene.  Plus, Regina just got her happy ending (and Robin is part of that) while Charming and Snow need to be tormented for being evil. Henry isn't dying. You can't kill the kid.

 

So for the regulars, I see the following people in danger:

Will: Why Might He Die: in the entire season, they haven't found a relevant thing for him to do. What plot points he has had (vandalizing library books, digging in the sand, dating Belle) have either gone nowhere or barely been mentioned. Why Might He Not Die: Presumably they have some idea why they brought him on this show and that clearly hasn't been written yet.

 

Rumple: Why Might He Die: Rumple's heart is charcoal and he  has been written into a corner with his behaviour this year. Why Might He Not Die: We could explore Rumple without the Dark One's Curse and Magic. I suspect that he will still be a manipulative jerk and they will show us magic isn't necessary for that.

 

Belle: Why Might She Die: Like Will, they rarely have much for Belle to do. Taking away Rumple's one tether to niceness might be interesting for his character. And that is the problem with Belle. She seems to only exist as she pertains to Rumple. Why She Might Not Die: Rumbelle fans would not be pleased.

 

I think we are just going to see some minor characters dying. Mal has mentioned that she dies if she leaves Storybrooke (its magic is all that's holding her bits of dust together). Perhaps Emma sucks up all the magic and that kills Mal. Then Emma can be the bad guy for sacrificing herself. I can see A&E liking that. Plus, it would count as a big change for Storybrooke.

[Serena]

Emma is not gonna die. Jennifer in her Warning Labels interviews always talks about her "2016 hiatus" when asked about filming a new project. That means she already knows she'll be back for S5.

[Curio]

Leanne spoiled what Hook's change of chararcter is. Apparently, he's not a coward, he's "befuddled". So Rumple becomes a brave knight and Hook is the bumbling farmer/spinner/etc.

 

YES. I know it'll only last for a minute or two, but I'm going to absolutely love these scenes. If Isaac made Hook anything but a completely incompetent and bumbling idiot in the alternate universe, I would have called bullshit. I'm still thinking that the author will let Rumple have the honors of killing Hook, or at least giving him a mortal wound that makes it appear like he's dead.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

i'm so glad I went to bed when I did.  Emma is not dying for one thing.  If she is, it's not a permanent one.  The characters will probably assume she's dead, but the viewers will likely find out what her fate is right away.  One of either Adam or Eddy said that the whole Lily has Emma's darkness in her would be balanced out.  I took that to mean that Emma would get that darkness back in her.

 

So, Hook is befuddled by the sword?  Anyone else think this has anything to do with that scene in the Crocodile when Hook throws the sword at Rumple's feet and tells him that the pointy end goes in?  

 

ETA - something in the Regina thread sort of triggered this.  David is supposed to be Graham in this AU, does that mean he gets his heart crushed by Evil!Snow?  I'm assuming he will remember who they really are and what they really are, no?

Edited May 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Amerilla]

We may be over-thinking this. Nobody in the core cast is going to die. The set leaks like a sieve. They shoot most of the climactic scenes on a main street in full view of gawkers and passers-by. They'd never be able to keep a major death secret. 

 

The Author is the most likely candidate to be sent to that big MFA Program in the Sky. My working theory is that just before he dies, he writes something that somehow frees the Dark One from Rumpel without killing him (although I can see a temporary "death" before his heart is factory-reset to its un-Dark One state) and lets the Dark One jump into Emma, setting up S5's arc, #LightenUpEmma 

"Catch-22" was a phrase that came to mind for me after watching the Rumpel sneak peek yesterday, especially combined with the script tease with Belle earlier this week.

 

In AU version of himself, Rumpel is a hero who believes that good deeds are their own reward, no price attached. It seem likely that Henry reaches out to him to for help in neutralizing the Author so Henry and his family can go home to their home and to their true selves. Since Henry is a little blabbermouth and the Author is going to want to keep on keeping on, at some point Rumpel would inevitably find out the catch-22: if he choose that path, he would give up this heroic persona, and return to a dead son and a broken marriage. That fits neatly into the tease that "Eliminating this threat will mean making a difficult choice. And if I make the wrong one..."

 

My guess is AU Rumpel does the right thing. In this case, magic will come with a price - he's somehow taken back to his cowardly, un-magical form. Since they don't do anything with Rumbelle but separate them, I wouldn't be surprised if he loses some or all of his memories. Going back to S2-3, he #SavesHenry, but Henry really is his "undoing." Finally.

 

That's probably a million tiny details off from what's going to play out on-screen, but I think it's a plausible framework based on what we've seen so far.

 

To go back a page, regarding Rumpel's taking on the persona of a knight in the AU:

 

It's actually kind of consistent. When he was drafted into the ogre wars, he was very excited. He was going to prove to the world that he was not like his father.  But when he gets to the front, he finds his romantic visions of war to be unfounded. He is to be ogre fodder and likely to die there. After a few prophecies and a self-hobbling, his life gets worse. His wife hates him for being a coward and he becomes the town outcast.  This all eventually drives him to make the decision to become the dark one.

 

I agree with kili that the knight persona is consistant with his deepest backstory, and what's really interesting is that the AU merges this early desire to be heroic with a later one. When BeggerZoso first got his hooks into SpinnerRumpel, Rumpel envisions being able to control direct the Dark One's magical mojo (from Desperate Souls: "Imagine me with those powers. Can you imagine me with those powers, Bae? I could get to redeem myself. I could turn it towards good. I’ll save all the children of the Frontlands – not just you, my boy."). So it may be why he's using magic in the clip, because in his AU version, he does manage to take the Dark One's power without being consumed by it. That would be the ultimate fantasy for him.

[RadioGirl27]

This is what Leanne Aguilera has to say about the finale:
 

Leanne Aguilera ‏@leanneaguilera
Wow, #Oncers! What an epic finale! All fans will be happy because there's something for everyone to love & MAJOR twists too! #OUATperfection

If all the fans would be happy, I doubt any regular would permanently die.

Edited May 8, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[HoodlumSheep]

A befuddled Hook? Multiple scenes with CS? Leanne is truly a gift. And of course the last 5 minutes are gonna be crazy!

Everyone's going to remember what happened in the AU, right? Lol. Killy's gonna feel embarrassed about his lack of sword skills even though it's Rumple's/the Author's fault.

Edited May 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

In AU version of himself, Rumpel is a hero who believes that good deeds are their own reward, no price attached. It seem likely that Henry reaches out to him to for help in neutralizing the Author so Henry and his family can go home to their home and to their true selves. Since Henry is a little blabbermouth and the Author is going to want to keep on keeping on, at some point Rumpel would inevitably find out the catch-22: if he choose that path, he would give up this heroic persona, and return to a dead son and a broken marriage. That fits neatly into the tease that "Eliminating this threat will mean making a difficult choice. And if I make the wrong one..."

 

My guess is AU Rumpel does the right thing. In this case, magic will come with a price - he's somehow taken back to his cowardly, un-magical form. Since they don't do anything with Rumbelle but separate them, I wouldn't be surprised if he loses some or all of his memories. Going back to S2-3, he #SavesHenry, but Henry really is his "undoing." Finally.

 

This is actually a very interesting and poetic setup for Rumple, and again, it just makes me angry that the writers saved all the good stuff for the final 2 episodes. Why couldn't we have had more of this during 4B? This catch-22 situation for Rumple would have been an amazing arc for Robert to play with for multiple episodes. Either remain a hero in the alternate universe and doom everyone else to miserable lives, or give up his fleeting happiness and probably die in the real timeline. See? The writers can be good when they try. Too bad it's too little too late for me to redeem this half season.

 

What's also great about this setup is that it also calls back to the last time Rumple did something "heroic" only to get screwed over—he sacrificed himself to get rid of Pan, and that heroic deed was rewarded by making him Zelena's slave and losing his son. Now that's a little closer to the real definition of being #ScrewedOver, Isaac...

[Curio]

Word, XrystalPond. I can't imagine being a professional writer and thinking, "Okay, we have this really great idea for a super fun alternate universe adventure. So instead, lets spend the majority of 4B on a retconned egg baby plot and throw in a pregnant shapeshifting Zelena. We can save that fun stuff for the last episode or two. That sounds much better."

[HoodlumSheep]

Is it wrong that I'm now wanting the final battle or whatever to go down like it does in Muppets Treasure Island? complete with a befuddled Hook gaining his awesome sword skills back, slicing the buttons off Rumple's (or whoever the bad guy is) outfit, only to have the sword fly out of his hand?

[FurryFury]

Word, XrystalPond. I can't imagine being a professional writer and thinking, "Okay, we have this really great idea for a super fun alternate universe adventure. So instead, lets spend the majority of 4B on a retconned egg baby plot and throw in a pregnant shapeshifting Zelena. We can save that fun stuff for the last episode or two. That sounds much better."

I think they're very afraid of big changes to the formula, of going away from Storybrooke (especially after some vocal fans were displeased with the Neverland adventure) and especially of changing the familiar characters too drastically. Basically, they are afraid to take chances.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[YaddaYadda]

I'm some who isn't too keen on them leaving Storybrooke because 2A trekking through the woods became very. ugh.  The other thing is the CGI.  Once's CGI isn't all that great, but I really enjoyed Neverland.  

 

Okay, actually the real reason I don't want them too far from Storybrooke is all the BTS we get.  

 

But seriously, 6-8 shows of AU would have been cool because it gets the writing to actually explore characters and do something that is character driven for a change.  The writers don't know how to do character driven stories and it sucks because in theory their ideas are good.  In practice, it's a whole other thing.  That being said, I am somewhat looking forward to this potential train wreck and if I'm pleasantly surprised, then I'll be happy.  If not then I'll have the whole summer to stew in it.

[sharky]

Is it possible that they're saying the AU for next season? Wishful thinking, I know, but I wonder how reaction to the finale will shape season 5, especially considering they haven't even gone into the writers room to start shaping it yet.

[Curio]

Is it possible that they're saying the AU for next season? Wishful thinking, I know, but I wonder how reaction to the finale will shape season 5, especially considering they haven't even gone into the writers room to start shaping it yet.

 

I wouldn't bank on them listening to viewer response. The general response to the finale last year was pretty positive, and Season 4 ended up being nothing like that finale.