Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

(I'm debating posting my statistical screen time findings in another thread, but I'm not sure just how much I want to out myself as a crazy fangirl...)

 

You're in a safe place, Curio. ;-) I'd be very interested to read your post.

 

What a shame about the screen-time of Emma/Hook scenes! Did you also check the amount of screen-time Emma had with Henry and her parents vs Regina? 

 

I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

 

Lbr, Regina will make herself the biggest victim in this situation as well, and Snow will say it was Emma's choice, and console her. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

They could say that the Dagger goes after the one with the "greatest potential for darkness" BS again to explain why Emma was targeted.

 

It's a catch-22 type of situation for the writers.  I said a few pages back that if Emma is all light, then absorbing the power of the dagger means that it balances her out in the sense that she now has both dark and light in her.  But there's probably some kind of miscalculation on her part where she gets just poofed or something.

 

And frankly, if that's the case, you have the option between balanced out Emma or full on evil Regina?  Emma will take that chance every time.  It has nothing to do with her loving Regina more than Hook and honest to God, I'm so tired to see this thing pop up.  It has nothing to do with that.  I'm sure this isn't even about him individually either, but rather about everyone she loves, that's Hook, her parents and Henry who would all be in direct danger if Regina absorbed the power of the dagger to which I'd like to remind everyone she had a bad reaction to in 4x12 after she released the fairies.

[Souris]

(I'm debating posting my statistical screen time findings in another thread, but I'm not sure just how much I want to out myself as a crazy fangirl...)

 

Please post!! I'm very interested.

 

Also, it seems based on what we've heard about this scene that the dagger is choosing Regina for some reason -- her darkness perhaps. But attaching herself to the dagger instead is a choice Emma makes -- so we could be going with another choice vs. fate theme here.

 

And of course, if this is how it all goes down, I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

 

I'm sort of concerned about all this because TS,TW but I'm not too worried about it.

 

My understanding is that it's not the dagger targeting Regina but this cloud of untethered Dark One energy that's "sucking up all her hope and light" (to paraphrase what one of the set stalkers overheard). Emma has the dagger when she & Hook run up, apparently from Gold's shop. Emma says something about them having to do what the Apprentice said, that the energy has to be tied to a person. I can't imagine that it would stop with Regina if it's hungry for hope and light -- it wouldn't get enough from her to count as an appetizer.

[kili]

I can't imagine that it would stop with Regina if it's hungry for hope and light -- it wouldn't get enough from her to count as an appetizer.

 

It wouldn't even count as an amuse-bouche.

[Curio]

And of course, if this is how it all goes down, I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

 

Yes, there could be some great drama there. I guess we'll see if the writers actually allow the characters to have a conversation about it that lasts longer than 5 minutes in 5A.

 

Did you also check the amount of screen-time Emma had with Henry and her parents vs Regina?

 

I only have Emma/Hook interactions and Hook screen time right now (because those were my two biggest grievances in 4B). But I probably should do some comparisons between the other characters and relationships, too. Good call. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Curio

[sharky]

Lbr, Regina will make herself the biggest victim in this situation as well, and Snow will say it was Emma's choice, and console her.

I don't think that's going to happen. They've been making such a point this season about Emma feeling betrayed by her parents to the point where even Hook has to step in and be the peacemaker for them. Emma just forgave Snow and they're finally together again. Not to mention that Snow is going to have a taste of the Dark Side with this AU. So I can't see her necessarily just shrugging and going "Welp, my daughter took your place as the Dark One so let's go get ice cream." And if she does go that route, Hook definitely will not. So there will at least be one person fighting for Emma.

 

I can't imagine that it would stop with Regina if it's hungry for hope and light -- it wouldn't get enough from her to count as an appetizer.

 

 

Again, this is why I think Emma is taking the dagger's darkness. What little time we've seen between Hook and Emma this half season, there's been an emphasis on Hook finally starting to pull himself off his dark path because of her. If the dagger can't get its fill with Regina, the next person it's going after is Hook. Maybe the writers did hear us when we complained about that 40-second scene at Granny's.

[Souris]

It wouldn't even count as an amuse-bouche.

 

LOL, I actually almost put that instead of appetizer! I don't think Regina would amuse anyone's bouche. Except Robin's. And the writers'.

 

Maybe the writers did hear us when we complained about that 40-second scene at Granny's.

 

Now, now, it was 26 seconds. I would've loved that extra 14 seconds!

 

Curio, I'm really, really interested in a comparison of Emma's screen time with Regina vs. Hook and everyone else in 4B. Hard data is my friend.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe the writers did hear us when we complained about that 40-second scene at Granny's.

 

 

I'll fix that for you...26 seconds.

 

 

 

What little time we've seen between Hook and Emma this half season, there's been an emphasis on Hook finally starting to pull himself off his dark path because of her. If the dagger can't get its fill with Regina, the next person it's going after is Hook.

 

And I could totally see that happening.  The dagger is part of the forces of darkness, so it going after Regina and then following down that path until it gets its fill of whatever...absolutely plausible.  That scene that we've seen with Emma and Hook, she is with him and people have been complaining that Emma hasn't fought for Hook the way he has for her.  Well here it is, maybe this is her way of saving him from whatever the dagger wants or the cloud or whatever.

 

If he dies in the AU like we've all been thinking because she either fails at saving him or he dies trying to save her, then she will be hell bent on succeeding this time.  CS have had some pretty big moments in season finales.  End of season 2, he comes back to help because she reminded him that he could care and be unselfish, that he can have his honor back.  End of season 3, he fought to bring her home.

 

End of season 4?

Edited May 6, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

I don't know if Emma loves Regina more than Hook, but the writers sure do love the Emma/Regina "friendship" more than Emma/Hook right now.

Unfortunately, this entire 4B arc has been all about Emma and Regina, so even though it makes me angry, the writers are at least following through with the relationship they've been spending the most time with. I don't like it, but that's what they've set up this half season so I have to accept it. I think what I'll be most bitter about is Emma dramatically telling Hook she loves him right before she sacrifices herself with the dagger, yet they've shared less than 10 minutes of screen time alone together this entire back half. It'll be hard to get emotional over that when there's barely been any build-up with their relationship. Sure, Colin and Jen will knock it out of the park with their acting, but it's hard to be emotionally invested in a goodbye scene when that couple didn't even get that many important scenes together in the past 4 months.

I was just exaggerating when I said that Emma loves Regina more than she loves Hook. The writers, on the other hand, sure love her more than they love any other character. And the forced Swan Queen friendship more than any other relationship right now.

What bothers me the most is that the relationship between Hook and Emma has been developped offscreen (the six weeks time jump), so now,  this big emotional moment between them during the dagger scene (if they don't cut it) would loose all it's impact.

And of course, if this is how it all goes down, I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

Hook and Charming, I don't know, but I can tell you what would be Snow's (and Henry's) reaction: she would totally ignore Hook while she goes to comfort Regina, just like she ignored Belle (and Neal) when Rumple died and went to comfort Regina.

Edited May 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Another script tease

 

Rumple: It's more complicated than that.  Eliminating this threat will mean making a difficult choice.  And if I make the wrong one...

 

Belle puts her hand over Rumple's, trying to soothe him...

 

Belle: You won't.  You never do.  You're a hero Rumple.

 

ME:  I swear I threw up in my mouth.  And I'm sure he's also going after Henry.  If he has his memories and is going after his grandson...?  No words!

[Curio]

Ha, that would be great if his big mission in finale is to destroy Henry. I miss the good ol' days of Rumple turning Henry into a ceramic doll and shattering him with his cane...

[YaddaYadda]

Ha, that would be great if his big mission in finale is to destroy Henry. I miss the good ol' days of Rumple turning Henry into a ceramic doll and shattering him with his cane...

 

Certainly would go back to the whole "the boy will be his undoing" bit, wouldn't it?  It's not like he did not try to send him flying into a bunch jagged rocks.

[maryle]

this show I am not really a fans anymore but cannot completely quit it either I was getting despite myself exciting about the final mostly for finaly have some pay off with CS , crazy I know!

So looked for the last spoiler and ... All the exciting went out the widow fastest than the Charming took take to resolve their conflict.

Honestly I am even optimist for next season , I Hope that people give some positivism critism regarding two simple fact

1 Emma should have real arc and people who really are concern with her and her feeling and not been use as a sidekick to Regina because that actually what she is been this arc. This is not a real dynamyc of healthy female frienship at all.

Emma gave and Regina take, that the relation in a nutshell , for me! How can anyone want this kind of friend is beyond me.

1 b) Emma relationship should be the focus for at least her arc with her family and boyfriend. The lead should have a farytell love story not one is rushed and a afterthought like now. one episode at least should have been Hook and Emma resolving well anything at this point if the show want us still care for when Emma said the famous ily ( only thing they are hitting concerning Emma for the final)

2 Regina can be a important character and be redeems without be the sun with evryone just gravitate toward her, it is repetitif and not realistic after all she have done to this people ! AND for some people (me ) who never care for the character or the actress it is becoming a real reason to just quit watching live. Honestly they use (Dark)Emma as bait but this half was Regina fanfic more than Rumple . Emma arc should logically be 5a, but I dare use the world logic.

2b) Rating wise Regina heavy focus arc or episode do not bring more people it is the opposite actually CS and Emma brought the best rating this year, in fact the decline begin with the lack of CS Screentime and the only episode who really rose was the Hook one this half.

Last the only good thing is the Rumple ( as the machevilian vilain) arc but they will just have Belle back with him because ...

[Rumsy4]

You can put lionskin on a donkey, and pretend he is Aslan, but at the end of the day, it's still a donkey. Looks like Rumple kept his memories, and is going to make a pretty villanous choice, as usual for him. It will be hilarious if AU!Belle dumps his ass too!

[KingOfHearts]

You can put lionskin on a donkey, and pretend he is Aslan, but at the end of the day, it's still a donkey. Looks like Rumple kept his memories, and is going to make a pretty villanous choice, as usual for him. It will be hilarious if AU!Belle dumps his ass too!

I'm sure she'll dump him for someone "darker". I'll ship her with the Sheriff of Nottingham.

[OnceUponAJen]

You can put lionskin on a donkey, and pretend he is Aslan, but at the end of the day, it's still a donkey. Looks like Rumple kept his memories, and is going to make a pretty villanous choice, as usual for him. It will be hilarious if AU!Belle dumps his ass too!

Hey....great "Last Battle" reference!

[Amerilla]

Deleted, moved to Writers.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Amerilla

[Shanna Marie]

And she's the moron who left the ink with the Author and let him walk around town all free and clear knowing Rump was out there wanting to get the author. It's a direct consequence of her actions. You know something Ms. Hypocritical-Self-Righteous Holier-than-thou-I'm-the-only-one-allowed-to-be-a-victim, should think about considering she loves to go around lecturing others and pointing fingers.

Yeah, Regina may not be directly at fault for what the Author and Rumple do, but it is a direct consequence of her actions and would not have been able to happen if she hadn't set out to rewrite her ending instead of, as she ultimately figured out, just living it and making her own happy ending. Just as Snow didn't kill Daniel or make Cora kill Daniel, but Regina considered Daniel's death to be enough of a direct consequence of Snow telling Cora that it came down to being Snow's fault and worthy of a lifetime of retaliation and revenge. Not that I expect either Regina or the show to realize this, and especially not realize that rewriting the universe in a bad way is a far more likely consequence from a quest to rewrite fate than murder is likely to be an expected consequence of telling a seemingly loving mother about her daughter's true love. I mean, seriously, what did she think was going to happen if she had things rewritten so that villains could get happy endings?

[FabulousTater]

I actually have lost all desire to watch anything related to the finale AU for four reasons:

 

1.  We know it's going to be Author heavy because it's his origin story so there's a good chunk of time gone. 
2. Henry. That little shit is going to be front and center. Ya, Hell to the Nah. His scenes will remind everyone why children on TV shows should neither be seen nor heard. And he really should've died two seasons ago.
3. The Emma and Regina Friendship tour of the AU. Nope. Don't want it. Never asked for it. Take it away.
4. And finally, it's an AU, which means nothing that happens matters, and it's going to end up being even more pointless than the Shattered Sight spell. Not that anything that happens on this show ever matters because this show is teflon when it comes to consequences. So it's sure to be 90 minutes of meaningless shenanigans revoloving around Hero Rumpel (*barf*), The Author (*dont effing care!!!*), Henry (*die, Henry. Die.*) and Regina being a victim in Snow's clothing (*projectile vomit*). HaHa Ha HA! NOPE. F all of that.

 
I just want to know what happens with Emma and the dagger at the end* of the finale. That's all.

 

( * I'm assuming dagger stuff happens at the end of the finale because that's seems too big of an event to place in the middle of the episode(s), and the ABC press pointedly left out any shots of Emma in those behind the scenes pictures we got. Sure the set stalkers shared their spoiler pics with us (thank you set stalkers :-D ) but the official press has pointedly not leaked that.  That's why I'm guessing Emma's sacrifice and her "death* are part of the season finale cliffhanger.
 

And of course, if this is how it all goes down, I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

Hook and Charming, I don't know, but I can tell you what would be Snow's (and Henry's) reaction: she would totally ignore Hook while she goes to comfort Regina, just like she ignored Belle (and Neal) when Rumple died and went to comfort Regina.

Ya, I fully expect Snow to be busted up about anything that happens to Emma for a full 2 seconds before she runs over and comforts Regina and asks her if she's okay, and once again, totally ignoring that this was all set in motion because of Regina's self-centered BS and wanting the writer to give her a happy ending that she doesn't f*cking DESERVE! The next day Snow will tell Charming "I want another baby " and, because this show is just a live action cartoon soap opera, she'll be pregnant again in s5. They'll name the kid Baelfire if it's a boy and Lily if it's a girl.

Edited May 6, 2015 by FabulousTater

[kili]

Belle: You won't.  You never do.  You're a hero Rumple.

 

LOL. Rumple is totally dictating a Gary Stu fanfic. I can totally see him have Belle say those words.

 

He needs to learn to love Belle for who she is. Belle is able to see the good in him and that should be enough. He wants her to be completely non-critical and fawning - accepting everything he does.  His entire pattern this season has been to take away her agency, lie to her, hide things from her and plot to wipe her memory - all to keep his bad deeds away from her. Maybe just stop doing bad deeds, Rumple.

 

Rumple: It's more complicated than that.  Eliminating this threat will mean making a difficult choice.  And if I make the wrong one...

 

Will "Rumple the Hero" make the right choice or will "Rumple the Story Dictator with a Deeply Flawed Moral Code" make the choice that best perserves what he wants?

[YaddaYadda]

He wants her to be completely non-critical and fawning - accepting everything he does.

 

Rumple doesn't want Belle, he wants Pod!Belle or Pod!person.  It's not because he won't harm her that he might not be pissed at her.  The last wife who told him what's up got her heart crushed.  So Rumple really can't take criticism or be told his truths.

 

If anyone should never ever be in a relationship, it's him.

[Zuleikha]

No. "Switch" and "heroes get unhappy endings" were words never said anywhere onscreen about Rump's plan, either by himself or the QoD. Because it was never his plan. His only plan has always been to get the author to rewite a happy ending for villain(s) which is exactly what OM is.

From Enter the Dragon: "Regina: And Maleficent already told me why they're here. Apparently, they're after the author, too. I simply want him to change my fate. (Emma or Snow): What do they want? Regina: They want to shift the entire balance So that villains win and heroes lose. They feel the only way to get their happy ending Is to destroy yours." So yes, it was established very early on that Rumple was not just about getting a happy ending for himself, but destroying the heroes's happy ending, and Rumple's Heroes and Villain fanfic is not at all Regina's and Henry's Operation Mongoose.

 

Just as Snow didn't kill Daniel or make Cora kill Daniel, but Regina considered Daniel's death to be enough of a direct consequence of Snow telling Cora that it came down to being Snow's fault and worthy of a lifetime of retaliation and revenge.

And you often talk about how wrong and irrational Regina is for thinking this (even though that summation has always been a huge oversimplification of what was on our screens), so that line of thinking can't be both wrong when Regina is using it to exonerate herself and right when you want to blame her for everyone else's actions (including, let's not forget, Emma making the choice to release the author from the book right after August warned her that the author had been imprisoned by the Sorcerer for making changes to the story instead of simply recording it).

[Shanna Marie]

And you often talk about how wrong and irrational Regina is for thinking this (even though that summation has always been a huge oversimplification of what was on our screens), so that line of thinking can't be both wrong when Regina is using it to exonerate herself and right when you want to blame her for everyone else's actions

I'm not blaming Regina, just saying that she does have some responsibility here and that she's a hypocrite if she doesn't take responsibility, since she's the one who's spent her entire adult life blaming Snow for not thinking of the possible consequences of what she did and who even recently ripped into Emma for not thinking of the consequences of her dire actions, like saving a life. If Regina can blame a child who didn't know that Cora was an evil witch for not considering the possibility that telling Cora about Regina's love would result in Regina's love being murdered, then Regina has to also be willing to take some blame when the consequence of her own plan to rewrite fate for her own benefit is that fate is rewritten in a way that makes things terrible for everybody because of the things she set in motion, even though this isn't what she intended. Regina is quick to blame others for not considering some pretty far-fetched negative potential consequences to their attempts to help. That's why I'm curious to see how she reacts when the shoe's on the other foot -- will she take any blame or feel any guilt for giving the Author the ink or for coming up with the idea in the first place, especially since she now seems to realize that this plan was a bad idea from the start?

[RadioGirl27]

From TV Line: Once Upon a Time Bosses Tease Secret Finale Scene, Tackle 'End Date' Topic

 

 

“There is a top-secret scene that I’m shocked hasn’t got out — but there’s still time!” Once co-creator Eddy Kitsis tells TVLine with a knowing laugh. “We’ll absolutely be setting up what Season 5 will be, but unlike last year where it was, ‘Hey, it’s Frozen,’ or the year before which was, ‘Hey, we’re going to Neverland,’ this one will be much more like Season 1 in that it’s a condition of the show that changes and has ramifications for everyone.”

I would love it if this change in condition was the real world discovering Storybrooke, but I don't know, it's probably Emma as the new Dark One or something absurd like that.

 

 

“I don’t think we want to set out a particular end date for this show,” Horowitz said when TVLine bandied about the possibly predetermining a finish line. (First things first, ABC has yet to announce 2015-16 TV season pick-ups for any of its scripted series.)  “I mean, we have in our mind how we would like to wrap up the stories of these characters. But without having the specifics of exactly how we get there, it’s really not possible to [set a series finale date]. It’s more about building everything towards what we think would be a satisfying conclusion.”

Translation: the show is going to end with an "and Regina lived happily ever after", but we haven't decided how to get there yet, so get ready for more crap.

Edited May 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[PixiePaws1]

I'm wondering if that scene of Emma looking all crazy and blurry with the weird noise is after she does do something like absorb all the dark 'energy cloud' through the dagger and then they all end up in one of tha AUs written to try and fix it. Maybe Henry finding all those blank books is because he is destined to be next author and writes what he thinks is a fix to either get himself to the EF or bring Emma back. But th e author is scribbling too and the two stories sharing the same characters are overlapping. ...with Emma looking like she is phasing I wonder if she's splitting into 2 .. a Dark and a Light... just random thoughts. Typing on a train...hard to concentrate.

[Curio]

“We feel we owe it to the audience to show what happens when the Author does start to write, and what he can do.”

 

Oh, bugger off with what you think you "owe" the audience. If you guys knew what the fans actually wanted to see on screen, we wouldn't have had any of 4B.

[YaddaYadda]

“There is a top-secret scene that I’m shocked hasn’t got out — but there’s still time!”

 

You called it top secret, so chances are, it will remain that way until the show airs.  He's also begging whoever knows about this if they were near the sets to spill.

 

Also, I don't understand what this change in condition is.  I'm guessing it might have something to do with magic, but they love it too much, so it will never be gone from the show.  

[Crimson Belle]

Do they end up back in the Enchanted Forrest after Emma does whatever the hell crap she does with the dagger?

Edited May 6, 2015 by Crimson Belle

[Souris]

I think the secret scene must be what they filmed on-set the day after Steveston, when one of the crew members tweeted a pic of a bazillion actor chairs crammed together. She tweeted pics of herself from that day with Colin, Emilie, Beverly and various dwarves. There were references to some filming done a day or two early the next week, but nobody seems to know what or who filmed. A lot of actors had already left town by then (Robert, Josh and Ginny I know had). The only ones we know for sure were around on that Sunday were Colin, JMo and Sean, because they had Easter dinner at Colin & Helen's. But that doesn't mean they were filming the next week. JMo was at a convention in Vancouver Saturday night. Somebody said that Sean was doing ADR (sound recording to pick up any garbled dialogue) early in the week.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Souris

[scenicbyway]

I think the "Top Secret" scene that Eddy is referencing is really the scene with Emma and the dagger, it's not like he can reveal that information in an interview.

 

What bothers me about Emma taking on the dagger for Regina, is that she's choosing to leave behind her parents, Henry, and Hook all so that Regina can have her happy ending?  If I was Hook and she'd just chosen saving Regina over staying with me and working to get Regina free, I'd feel pretty bad, no matter if I Love You's were exchanged.  I realize that Henry would believe Emma would be ok and he'd have Regina anyway.  I suppose Charming and Snow could just fall back on Neal, but this will be the third time they've lost their daughter.  And what about Emma?  Is she doomed to never have a happy ending, she only gets an occasional quiet moment? 

[Rumsy4]

Maybe Emma is a pirate in the AU. She's got rum. I really really love her outfit. 

[FabulousTater]

From the tvline interview:

“We know kind of where we want to end the show,” adds Kitsis. “It’s really a matter of how long, how many more years that will take.”
That said, Kitsis notes, “We would much rather to go out on our terms than be gently kicked out the door!”

Oh, Eddy...at the rate you're bleeding viewers and angering those that are left, it won't be gentle.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm sure that secret scene goes after the dagger scene and is going to show the consequence of what Emma has done, whatever that is.

 

What bothers me about Emma taking on the dagger for Regina, is that she's choosing to leave behind her parents, Henry, and Hook all so that Regina can have her happy ending?  If I was Hook and she'd just chosen saving Regina over staying with me and working to get Regina free, I'd feel pretty bad, no matter if I Love You's were exchanged.

Hook is screwed no mather what. If she is doing it only for Regina, it's like telling him that he is not enough (and we know how he feels about that). But if she is doing it for everyone, including him, he would feel terribly guilty for not being able to save her. And let's not imagine how devastated he would feel if she is doing it for him specifically. And in any case he is loosing  the love of his life and his only family (again).

Edited May 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[FabulousTater]

Hook is screwed no mather what. If she is doing it only for Regina, it's like telling him that he is not enough.

WTF? I don't think just because Emma sacrifices herself to save someone (even if it's Regina whom I would rather see die in a vat of boiling oil) that's saying that Hook "is not enough" for her. I think you're conflating two different things. She can truly love Hook and still not want to stand by and watch someone die if it's within her power to save them. Emma's love for Hook isn't tied to her desire to save people (again, even if it is Regina which is galling). Emma's making a selfless sacrifice, but because it's not good for Hook, Emma's being cruel and it's a sign that Hook's not enough for her??? Are firefighters, who die running into burning buildings to save others, telling their families "Sorry, family. You're not enough for me."? Nonsense. I call BS on that interpretation.

Edited May 6, 2015 by FabulousTater

[pezgirl7]

Maybe Emma is a pirate in the AU. She's got rum. I really really love her outfit.

As much as I'd love for it to be rum, I'm pretty sure that's the top of a knife. You can see it better here:

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery5/gallery21/hires/27.jpg

[RadioGirl27]

 

Emma's making a selfless sacrifice, but because it's not good for Hook, Emma's being cruel and it's a sign that Hook's not enough for her???

 

I'm not saying that Emma doesn't love Hook, that she is being cruel to him or that she shouldn't do whatever she is doing (well, I think she shouldn't be the one that has to clean Regina's mess, but that's not the point here). I'm saying that from the point of view Hook, someone who has terrible problems of self-esteem and self-loathe (even if the show has decided to ignore them this half season, they were pretty prominents in 4A), to see Emma sacrifice herself for someone else's happy ending (specially when he told her that she was his happy ending) could make him feel like that, like he is not enough and, no mather what he does, he would never be enough.

Edited May 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Rumsy4]

As much as I'd love for it to be rum, I'm pretty sure that's the top of a knife. You can see it better here:

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery5/gallery21/hires/27.jpg

 

Ah! Nm. I got carried away by the hype. lol

 

I can't figure out who Emma is supposed to be in the AU. I tend to think she does retain her memories. The "savior" clause usually keeps her from safe from these things. She not another bandit, as her clothes seem of a better quality than bandit!Snow or bandit!Regina. She could still be a pirate, a rival of Hook's perhaps. That's something Rumple might well do! 

[FabulousTater]

 I'm saying that from the point of view Hook, someone who has terrible problems of self-esteem and self-loathe (even if the show has decided to ignore them this half season, they were pretty prominents in 4A), to see Emma sacrifice herself for someone else's happy ending (specially when he told her that she was his happy ending) could make him feel like that, like he is not enough and, no mather what he does, he would never be enough.

I don't think you're giving Hook enough credit for being a grown ass adult. Yes, he may have some self-loathing isues because of his dark past, but he's not that self-absorbed to think that Emma saving someone has anything to do with himself. He's not Rumpel (or Regina).

 

Hook knows Emma's The Savior. She saves others that need it and he's very proud of her for it, and I would argue that's probably one of the things he loves about her. She fights, even if it means her own life, for what she believes. Yes, losing Emma will hit Hook incredibly hard, but he's not Regina levels of self-absorbed such that he would tarnish Emma's selfless sacrifice by wallowing in some sort of bizarrely conceited delusion that her sacrifice had anything to do with him not being enough for her.

Edited May 6, 2015 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not saying that Emma doesn't love Hook, that she is being cruel to him or that she shouldn't do whatever she is doing (well, I think she shouldn't be the one that has to clean Regina's mess, but that's not the point here).

 

 

This reminds me of that whole conversation before 4x03 aired where we were going on about why Emma would reject Hook or whatever that was without knowing anything.  Judge, Jury and executioner where Emma was the worst person ever for pushing Hook away because she couldn't be in a relationship with him because she fucked up Regina's relationship by bringing back Marian from the past.

 

I think there was 2 or 3 of us who had decided that Emma was scared of going into this whole thing with him because she had experienced a lot of loss in her life and she was scared of losing him.

 

So what happened in 4x03?  She sends him to the sheriff's station because she wants to protect him while he decides that he's having none of it because she's running into danger and then he nearly gets himself killed.  She yells at him and then tells him why she's pulling away from her.

 

Her pushing Hook away had absolutely zero to do with Regina.  Not everything is colored by Regina.  Emma had just had a near death experience the night before where she was clinging to the guy for dear life, where she made the overtures towards Hook where she felt the need to protect him after what happened to Marian, where nothing was working to bring her back, not magic, not a TLK, nothing!

 

Regina might be part of the reason why Emma is doing whatever it is she is doing and she is certainly part of the bigger picture, but she's not the whole thing and she's certainly not the whole reason.

 

This shit is airing in 4 days.  We'll find out soon enough anyway.

[KingOfHearts]

The Author probably set the whole scenario up to where everything will be undone. It's all a closed story in of itself. Either that or the Author is simply killed, thus undoing all his work... which may include Lily's darkness.

Edited May 6, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Either that or the Author is simply killed, thus undoing all his work... which may include Lily's darkness.

 

About that, A&E mentioned something about this stuff being balanced out in season 5, I think which prompted some to think that Lily will be back.  That would make sense, I guess.

[sharky]

That would also fall into the spoiler that there are no new characters being introduced in the finale. So that would mean there's no Jafar or King Arthur or anything. But then they did introduce Lily who is someone they can hang plots on next season.

 

As for Emma sacrificing herself for Regina, I think we also have to remember that Regina is Henry's mother as well (I know sometimes we like to forget Henry). Emma knows that even though she's doing this, Henry will still have at least one mother there. And she knows that Hook will also be there for Henry. I just can't see them having Emma do a simple one-for-one swap unless there was something more to it. I still think she's saving the whole town and not just Regina, or there's something about her love for Hook that's going to protect her, like "I'm your happy ending and you are going to be mine." And frankly, based on the fact that the dagger stays behind when she disappears, I can totally see her saying that she doesn't trust anyone with the dagger except for Hook, that he has to be the one to not only pick it up and control her but use it to command her to get him back to her somehow, that their love can conquer the darkness.

 

And now I have to add that to my list of fluffy fanfics I'm writing during the hiatus.

Edited May 6, 2015 by sharky

[pezgirl7]

Ah! Nm. I got carried away by the hype. lol

It's OK! I thought it might have been a flask when I first saw it too. And actually, I don't think it's a knife, but the top of her sword sheath. She's doesn't have her sword in some of those photos where she looks worried, so I guess Rumple de-swords her, and somehow knocks her unconscious. I wonder if he still has his magic? I can't imagine him letting the writer get rid of it.

[Scovies]

Yeah, I'm not inclined to believe that Emma is sacrificing herself just for Regina. I'm pretty sure whatever she's doing includes saving the whole damn town, which includes her son, parents, and Hook.

 

I'm actually pretty damn excited for the finale. The bizarro-world sneak peak we've already seen looks fun, you know the actors are all going to have a blast doing it, and even if Hook temporarily "dies" in the AU (which makes perfect sense, considering it's basically Rumple fanfiction) it's going to set up one hell of a reunion scene with Emma. The "13+ actors" spoiler isn't bothering me all that much either -- the Robin/Zelena wedding is going to cover at least half of those alone, and I'm betting a lot of these actors are just in bit parts and cameos rather than being integral to the story. I mean, I expect to see Leroy and Will in the AU, but I doubt they'll be taking up much screentime.

[Curio]

The bizarro-world sneak peak we've already seen looks fun, you know the actors are all going to have a blast doing it, and even if Hook temporarily "dies" in the AU (which makes perfect sense, considering it's basically Rumple fanfiction) it's going to set up one hell of a reunion scene with Emma.

 

I think I'm going to have to somehow convince my brain to stop caring so damn much about these characters on Sunday, because I can't handle another 4x11 disaster. I went in with such high hopes for a good reunion scene or any kind of resolution to that heart arc, and then... we got the infamous 26 seconds. I don't want the same thing happening this time. (Although, thanks to my nerdy screen time stats, I basically know exactly how much effort I should put into caring about the finale if the rest of 4B is anything to go by. We can expect approximately 2 minutes of Hook and Emma talking one-on-one and maybe 6 minutes of them where they're in the same scene but interacting with other characters.)

[KingOfHearts]

I don't find direct role reversal very interesting because it's essentially a repeat of what we've already seen, albeit with different actors. If Snow were more like Heart of Darkness Snow or Regina was like the ultimate  Disney Princess damsel-in-distress type, then I'd be really fun. However, the only I'd find role reversal worth doing is if there were ramifications for it. For instance, characters realizing how the other felt. Regina seeing how bad the Evil Queen truly was or something. But it's this show, so we'll be back to normal with no emotional consequences in Part 2.

 

Another possible scenario would be one of the characters having their memories and being affected, whether negatively or positively, by what they see. This seems to be the road they're going down, but it'll be Emma or Henry... and I really don't care about what they think of all of it. Henry is, well just Henry, and we've already gotten plenty of reaction to the fairy tale craziness from Emma.

Edited May 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Scovies]

I think I'm going to have to somehow convince my brain to stop caring so damn much about these characters on Sunday, because I can't handle another 4x11 disaster. I went in with such high hopes for a good reunion scene or any kind of resolution to that heart arc, and then... we got the infamous 26 seconds. I don't want the same thing happening this time. (Although, thanks to my nerdy screen time stats, I basically know exactly how much effort I should put into caring about the finale if the rest of 4B is anything to go by. We can expect approximately 2 minutes of Hook and Emma talking one-on-one and maybe 6 minutes of them where they're in the same scene but interacting with other characters.)

 

I'm a very new viewer to the show, so I wasn't present for the speculation/spoilers regarding 4x11. But I don't think A&E would be talking about the whole "Emma realizes how she feels about Hook" thing if it wasn't something reasonably significant. As much as I wish they'd gotten more screentime in 4B, I can't complain about the quality of what they've gotten, especially when you compare it to how everything else on the show is handled. Captain Swan is basically the only sane, mature thing about the whole show right now. And if this whole thing ends with Emma becoming the Dark One or being trapped in another realm or whatever, it essentially forces the writers to give Hook an active, relevant role in Season 5. He'll actually have a legitimate purpose and will be forced to interact with cast members not named Rumple and Emma, and I'm looking forward to that.

 

Personally, I'll take less screentime for them if it means we get the lovely Captain Swan scenes from "Mother" and not some hideously problematic rape by deception/pregnancy storyline. I shudder to think of what would happen if they got the Regina and Robin treatment (I still don't know how to feel about that, because I really like both Lana Parilla and Sean Maguire -- and, on a completely shallow note, I'll never object to watching hot people with good on-screen chemistry making out -- but the writing is absolutely atrocious). 

 

I'd take this to the positivity thread, but there are too many spoilers. Just trying to lighten the mood a little. :) Given the falling ratings and the fact that the Hook-centric episodes have done relatively well compared to the other eps, I'm holding out hope that they won't be stupid enough to sideline Hook next season.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Scovies

[Souris]

And if this whole thing ends with Emma becoming the Dark One or being trapped in another realm or whatever, it essentially forces the writers to give Hook an active, relevant role in Season 5. He'll actually have a legitimate purpose and will be forced to interact with cast members not named Rumple and Emma, and I'm looking forward to that.

 

If I hadn't been so burned by thinking they'd be FORCED to have some sort of CS payoff to the Hook's heart arc, I might believe that. But, as always, This Show, These Writers.

 

But welcome to the madness and CS-dom. ;) You're right, CS has gotten better quality stuff than the show as a whole. But I'm greedy and want quantity as well as quality.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

I'm a very new viewer to the show, so I wasn't present for the speculation/spoilers regarding 4x11. But I don't think A&E would be talking about the whole "Emma realizes how she feels about Hook" thing if it wasn't something reasonably significant. As much as I wish they'd gotten more screentime in 4B, I can't complain about the quality of what they've gotten, especially when you compare it to how everything else on the show is handled. Captain Swan is basically the only sane, mature thing about the whole show right now.

 

I don't know when you started watching/reading up on spoilers, but an important thing you'll want to know about Adam & Eddy interviews is that they lie half the time. They often say cryptic or completely false things just for the sake of getting excitement built up for the upcoming episodes. For example, before the 4A finale, A&E promised we'd see Emma fighting for Hook and she'd play a part in getting his heart back. They also said Will would be featured a lot more in 4B and play an integral role. There's also a tidbit somewhere out there about meeting Hook's dad. And then they'll say completely random stuff like the reason Emma doesn't have an apartment yet is because of the budget. So, you'll learn quickly to take everything they say with a massive grain of salt. ;)

 

But I totally agree with you about the quality of screentime Emma and Hook have been given. That's been one of the few redeeming parts of 4B, and even if they only share 2 minutes on screen together in the finale, at least I know they'll be 2 minutes of superb quality.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Curio

[Scovies]

I don't know when you started watching/reading up on spoilers, but an important thing you'll want to know about Adam & Eddy interviews is that they lie half the time. They often say cryptic or completely false things just for the sake of getting excitement built up for the upcoming episodes. For example, before the 4A finale, A&E promised we'd see Emma fighting for Hook and she'd play a part in getting his heart back. They also said Will would be featured a lot more in 4B and play an integral role. There's also a tidbit somewhere out there about meeting Hook's dad. And then they'll say completely random stuff like the reason Emma doesn't have an apartment yet is because of the budget. So, you'll learn quickly to take everything they say with a massive grain of salt. ;)

 

But I totally agree with you about the quality of screentime Emma and Hook have been given. That's been one of the few redeeming parts of 4B, and even if they only share 2 minutes on screen together in the finale, at least I know they'll be 2 minutes of superb quality.

 

Yeah, I get that A&E flat-out lie sometimes (and I don't even think that comes from a place of deliberate subterfuge, but them not being able to make up their damn minds and constantly changing their plans for the show), but given what they said AND the episode descriptions that include stuff like "Hook and Emma explore/deepen their relationship" (I can't remember the exact wording right now, but you get the gist), I'm pretty sure they'll get a lovely moment in the finale that isn't related to the dagger scene. 

 

In other news, who's going to be the "permanent" death? Honestly, the only semi-major character that I could see them killing off is Belle. It's be just enough to rock the boat, character- and plot-wise, without genuinely affecting the show.