Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[HoodlumSheep]

So we're stuck with Lily, Zelena and the flop Apprentice? I mean I'm happy we wont be getting any new characters but this also confirms Emma is the big bad. I wonder if her arc will be for the whole season and not a half one. First half might be the gang looking for her and the second half is her fighting her darkness.

Oh shit, I was right about Emma saying the L Word first.

I still like the Apprentice. The only thing I don't like about him so far is that he tried to help lily a little, but didn't bother with Emma (as far as we know). Zelena's plain loopy, but I'm still hoping that the pregnancy is a lie. I like Lily well enough, but the plot she's stuck with doesn't help her.

Anyways, it does sound like Emma might say ILY first. And knowing how A&E roll, they'll have this storyline wrapped up by the end of 5a.

Interestingthat A&E mention visiting a bunch of realms, etc. It makes me think that maybe we'll be jumping around different AU's, maybe as the heroes try to correct the AU shenanigans. That would be interesting. Unless I read that wrong.

[retrograde]

I don't know if no new characters means Emma is necessarily the big bad. They're supposed to introduce the sorceror before the next season. Sounds like Lily will still be around. Mal may be around.

It does make it sound like we won't be going to other World's next season, which is a bummer.

[Shanna Marie]

Emma saying "I love you" would only be a first in the sense of saying it specifically and directly. He's already sworn on his love for her to Zariel, talked to Charming in the past about the lengths he'd go through for her and told her she's his happy ending. The closest she's come to reciprocating is lumping him in with all the other men she's loved and lost. So while the direct and specific "I love you" would put her first, he's been saying it indirectly or to other people for a while. It would be nice to have her saying it first, since the show otherwise hasn't given her the chance to jump through portals, agonize over his fate or do anything other than kiss him to express her feelings.

[YaddaYadda]

It does make it sound like we won't be going to other World's next season, which is a bummer.

 

Yeah, but it also sounds like they're doing a bunch of other worlds during the AU.  

 

 

 

I don't know if no new characters means Emma is necessarily the big bad.

 

I'm also a bit iffy on that.  If Lily is around next season, she might be the big bad which explains the whole trying to balance the scales between her and Emma.

 

So while the direct and specific "I love you" would put her first, he's been saying it indirectly or to other people for a while.

 

But so has she.  She has been saying it indirectly to him.  Everytime he made an indirect comment about his feelings, she was right there with him reciprocating in kind.  Her saying ILY just solidifies his place in her life.  Emma isn't someone who speaks about her feelings so she does the next best thing, demonstrates her feelings.  This imo is just a formality at this point.

Edited May 1, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

Yeah, he's done gestures and has danced around it, but I like her actually saying the world first. She said it first to Henry too, even though Henry spent the whole first season previous to that proving his love for her (OMG, remember that Henry?)

[KingOfHearts]

I'm debating if dark Emma is actually going to happen or not. It's a toss-up, really. On one hand, it's too obvious and expected that it has to be misdirect. On the other, it's this show and what's speculated turns out to be true more often than not.

[kili]

I still like the Apprentice. The only thing I don't like about him so far is that he tried to help lily a little, but didn't bother with Emma (as far as we know).

 

Far from it. Instead, he sicced Crazy Ingrid on Emma. Lily gets a nice explanation and Emma gets crazy pants. The Apprentice probably convinced August to do what he did too (August is back for the finale, so we'll probably get that little tidbit). He's the most logical candidate for providing August with information he could not otherwise have had.  Thanks Apprentice.  But once again, we should feel sorry for the villains for the crappy lives they have had. Emma is so lucky to be a hero and get all those happy endings heaped on her.

 

Meanwhile, I just can't with those flashbacks. They keep having everybody work for "no-regrets" Regina's happy ending, yet they keep showing her do senseless murders like this. Am I really supposed to be "Oh, poor Woobie. It's the anniversary of Daniel's death. How dare those people be happy? Poor Regina. I totally understand why her pain drove her to do that."  Argh! I'm still not over Henry telling Belle about how all these horrible things happen to Poor Regina in the book.

[Mathius]

The Apprentice strikes me as a really nice guy, mainly due to the warmth the actor conveys, who just suffers from the same problem most characters in this show have for a long time now: plot-induced stupidity.

[MaiLuna]

TVLine interview

 

How NICE of Rumpel to NOT kill Will. I really hope A&E are never on jury duty.

Edited May 1, 2015 by MaiLuna

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, I don't trust it. They only think that right now, but when actually making Season 5, some shiny new toy or BS idea will grab their attention and they'll use it without rhyme or reason.

Yeah, it actually says that they are not introducing a new character in the finale. It says nothing about next season:

 

 

So is that to mean we won't be getting any new characters for this upcoming arc?

Kitsis: We're not introducing any new characters [in the finale], we're just changing the condition of the town.

 

 

Emma seemed to resist indulging her darker impulses in the last hour. What will that struggle be like going forward?

Kitsis: Emma is going to be tested like she never has before. Some character growth, some emotional growth and truth in how she feels about Hook (Colin O'Donoghue). We're going to see her really fight against that darkness, and her really show heroism at the end of the year.

This is why I'm still wary about Dark Emma in season 5. It would be such a slap in the face of Emma (and her fans) to have her doing something really heroic in the finale and, as a consequence, make her the villain.

 

The things they say about Rumbelle in the TVLine interview are disgusting and make me sure that they are having a TLK in the finale.

[Shanna Marie]

KITSIS | Anger doesn’t go away in one night.

HOROWITZ | Lily has spent many years dealing with the anger of what Snow and Charming did to her, so it’s going to take her a bit to either get over it or embrace [vengeance].

KITSIS | Just because she and Emma had a nice scene on the highway doesn’t mean that it’s over.

Yes, that only happens when it's the bad guys who've wronged the good guys. Then the many years of dealing with the torment can be just wiped away with one nice scene. Only bad guys are allowed to feel hurt or angry about what's been done to them.

 

I noticed in the comments that there was a mention that no, the Rumple and Belle scene wasn't romantic, that it was a big, manipulative humblebrag on his part.

[Serena]

Are they serious about how Rumple getting back Belle's heart was heroic? He was being blackmailed! He couldn't do his evil thing while Regina had Belle's heart! He returned it so he's free to darken Emma's heart or whatever else he wants to do without Regina's interference. Am I taking crazy pills? Are they? What?

[Mathius]

OMFG, how was Rumple being "selfless"!? If he was selfless, he'd have let Will return the heart and not even made his presence known, and he only "didn't expect anything in return" because he plans on getting everything he wants through Isaac anyway! I just can't with these clods...

Yeah, it actually says that they are not introducing a new character in the finale. It says nothing about next season

It said "next year", but it's been changed. I guess A&E got wind of people's reactions and told EW to edit the article to reflect what they actually meant was that no character FOR next year will be introduced IN the finale. See, people, told you not to get your hopes up. Edited May 1, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

I can't either. So, refraining from murder is selfless.

[OnceUponAJen]

Are they serious about how Rumple getting back Belle's heart was heroic? He was being blackmailed! He couldn't do his evil thing while Regina had Belle's heart! He returned it so he's free to darken Emma's heart or whatever else he wants to do without Regina's interference. Am I taking crazy pills? Are they? What?

Yes! The way I saw this is that Rumple forced Will to steal her heart back so that he could give it to Belle and perhaps LOOK selfless. However, he also had his own interests in mind. So he played Belle yet again!

Edited May 1, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Souris]

Again I wonder if the entire show is a social experiment to see how easily people are swayed to believe what they're told versus what is shown on screen. Because that description of Rumple as selfless and romantic in that scene is so effing twisted and scary, I shudder to think about them actually believing what they're selling.

[sharky]

It said "next year", but it's been changed. I guess A&E got wind of people's reactions and told EW to edit the article to reflect what they actually meant was that no character FOR next year will be introduced IN the finale. See, people, told you not to get your hopes up.

So are you saying you think we're not getting a new character in the finale but we could still get new characters in the fall? I actually can see that being a logical thing to do if our prediction that Emma gets banished to another world is correct. We may not see the characters in the new world, but I feel like they would at least tease where she lands as the cliffhanger.

 

And bless you, Rumsy, for being so selfless and not murdering anyone. You are truly a saint among us godless spoiled heathens. ;)

[OnceUponAJen]

Again I wonder if the entire show is a social experiment to see how easily people are swayed to believe what they're told versus what is shown on screen. Because that description of Rumple as selfless and romantic in that scene is so effing twisted and scary, I shudder to think about them actually believing what they're selling.

Either that or there is a sincere disconnect between what they think they're showing and what actually ends up on the screen.

[HoodlumSheep]

Is it too much to hope that maybe there's a chance we'll go to a different realm in the back half of season 5? I'll continue to hope.

Anyways, I'm taking the "isn't he nice for not murdering Will in his sleep?" And putting on the shelf next to Regina's "maybe I don't want to kill you anymore" or whatever she said back in 4x05.

I'm glad they've at least stated that the lovelorn look on Belle's face doesn't necessarily mean she'll forgive him right away. But it's only a matter of time 'til she does.

And no, Adam. We did not see the "shocked" reaction from Robin Hood about Zelena that you supposedly think there was before the episode ended.

Edited May 1, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

And bless you, Rumsy, for being so selfless and not murdering anyone. You are truly a saint among us godless spoiled heathens. ;)

 

You all need to stop your lives, and find me a Happy Ending right away, because I deserve it...

[mjgchick]

You all need to stop your lives, and find me a Happy Ending right away, because I deserve it...

It will be the first second and last thing I'll think about. I won't even want to have fun because i should feel guilt over the fact that you don't ha e your happy ending yet.

[FabulousTater]

Some bits from that hollywood reporter article re: the upcoming episodes --

 

Is Zelena a character you view as redeemable at this point?

Kitsis: What we’ve tried to do on the show is no one is completely good and no one is completely bad. We’ve had Snow White (Ginnifer Goodwin) do something horrible and Rumple do something beautiful. Where Zelena ends up is truly up to her. Everyone’s worried about Emma going dark, but for this weekend, I’d be more worried about Regina.

 

Ya know, this really does explains so much....We talk about the moral event horizon a lot, but I think this quote reveals that A&E don't have one. When asked if someone is redeemable their answer is "no one is completely good and no one is completely bad". I think they legit don't believe there's a moral event horizon; there's no point of no return, no atrocity that someone can committ and still not get all the shinys. I don't think these guys have a core belief in justice or a basic moral grounding and that translates on screen. This is basically a show written by amoralists who like to talk about "hope".

 

Emma seemed to resist indulging her darker impulses in the last hour. What will that struggle be like going forward?

Kitsis: Emma is going to be tested like she never has before. Some character growth, some emotional growth and truth in how she feels about Hook (Colin O'Donoghue). We’re going to see her really fight against that darkness, and her really show heroism at the end of the year.

How is that playing into her relationship with her parents?

Kitsis: It plays into everything. You’re going to see the messiness this weekend of her and her parents and how she forgives them. I think she’s going to be tested these last few hours.

Basically, in that promo where Snow gets knocked out by a rock, I bet money Emma sees it and has yet another "Oh noes, my mom mighta died!" which makes Emma forgive Snowing for everything. Once again, the Emma/Snowing relationship is magically fixed with absolutely no discussion -- throwaway line and hug -- and it all happens in the C plot of an episode, so a 30 second scene. I'm also putting money on Emma apologizing to them and asking for Snowing's forgiveness because that's how this show rolls. FU, show. And a special big FU to A&E.

 

Snow and Charming have had a lot of angst about what they did to Maleficent. How will they be handling the reunion between Lily and Maleficent?

Kitsis: I think they feel a lot of guilt, so for them, reuniting Lily with Maleficent will kind of start to ease their conscience.

 

LOL. Snowing did absolutely NOTHING to reunite Mal and Lily! They've taken zero actions to fix their fuck-up. But Emma doing all the dirty work for them -- Snowing sat on their asses the whole time -- that's considered them helping reunite Mal and Lily and that is easing their conscience. LOL! I've seen a lot of TV shows in my time and this is easily the worst written one I've ever had the pain and agony to witness. If there were a TV show equivalent to chinese torture treatment, it's would be watching this show.

[mjgchick]

 

We’re going to see her really fight against that darkness, and her really show heroism at the end of the year.

Ok this part makes me pause on Emma not being dark next season.

 

 

Snow and Charming have had a lot of angst about what they did to Maleficent. How will they be handling the reunion between Lily and Maleficent?

Kitsis: I think they feel a lot of guilt, so for them, reuniting Lily with Maleficent will kind of start to ease their conscience.

 

They don't watch their own show.

[Serena]

Yaaaaas. Appatently Zelena is really pregnant. I don't care, they did this, they better go through with it. I want to see Zelena get pregnancy mood swings!

 

 

 

Is Zelena really pregnant on Once Upon a Time? — Kellen
That does seem pretty fishy, right? Alas, I think we’re in for some bad news in that department. “She could be [faking this]. We’ve seen her talent with magic,” executive producer Edward Kitsis says. “But that seems to be very easy. I would hate to end the show on information like that just to buy it back and say, ‘Just kidding!’ That would seem not fair.” Here’s hoping this just means Robin and Zelena are not the ones getting married.

EW

[YaddaYadda]

It's like why?  Why would they even go there with Zelena?  I don't understand the logic behind it.  Actually I don't understand much of what the show is doing.

 

Ok this part makes me pause on Emma not being dark next season.

 

It could also be Regina round 20,000 just because.

[Serena]

Another interview from EW. I'm pretty sure Regina will fuck up big in the next ep.

[KingOfHearts]

“But that seems to be very easy. I would hate to end the show on information like that just to buy it back and say, ‘Just kidding!’ That would seem not fair.”

 

Like you all do with Rumpbelle... every... freaking... season? Or anything else you setup?! "But let's follow through with the storyline everyone hates. That's more fun."

 

 

It’s kind of like his bar mitzvah, but magically.

Magically? Is he going to learn magic or something...? Plot twist: The Sorcerer is Henry from the future.

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Ick nast. What are these writers thinking? We'll have Regina resisting the urge to kill this baby every day and would get a tap on the back for actually not doing it.

[FurryFury]

Hell, I'm starting to really believe Zelena's going to be a regular next year, so we'll all get front row seats on the progression of her pregnancy.

Well, I really hope next year's going to have some good pilots, because it sure seems like I'll need a replacement for Once. I guess I can still stick around and snark at the stuff that happens without watching the show.

Edited May 1, 2015 by FurryFury

[kili]

And will we find out how Robin Hood (Sean Maguire) and Regina (Lana Parrilla) are dealing with Zelena’s (Rebecca Mader) pregnancy?

KITSIS: That would be the “A” story, if you will. The whole story is about how Regina is dealing with it.

 

The entire "A" story is how Regina deals with it? Unless that "deals with it" consists of her being supportive of the victim, I'm going to flip a table.

 

NOTHING HAPPENED TO REGINA.

 

Marian was killed. Roland lost his mother, again. Robin has found out his wife has been murdered and he has been raped by her murderer. He also found out that he is having a rape baby.

 

Regina has found out that the man she loves has been the victim of multiple crimes. She needs to support him. As one of the few who can help to limit the perp's power, she can do that too.  She can shake her head in wonderment that Zelena would harm an innocent to get back at her and gain some realization that she too did that to others. She can make ammends for her past similar deeds.

 

She should be thrilled that she has Henry, Robin and Rolland in her life and thank her lucky stars that she is getting almost a perfect Happy Ending (it would be perfect, except that she realizes that Robin and Rolland have recently been victims of a psycho).  

 

The "A" story! At least if it was the "C" story it would make sense that they were giving the true victims the short shrift - there isn't the time. Instead, they are going to let us see every second of Regina's pain and use it to justify the damage she does to others (injuring Lily and turning Emma's heart dark) while Robin gets to make a few faces. If we are lucky, he'll probably be made to apologize to Regina... TS, TW. Seriously, just imagine if a female character had had her husband killed and she'd been raped and impregnated. Would these writers still make the "A" story about how her ex-boyfriend suffered from all of this?

[mjgchick]

Woof, it just keeps getting worse and worse. Yikes. This Emma going dark is not that bad compared to the rest.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma going dark has been completely downplayed.  So now, is she or isn't she?  Zelena's pregnancy taking centre stage...I'm already questioning my commitment to next season based on some of this.

[RadioGirl27]

Emma going dark has been completely downplayed.  So now, is she or isn't she?

After reading this, I don't think so.

Should we still be worried about Emma going dark even though she’s done the right thing by bringing Lily back to Storybrooke?

HOROWITZ: We should always worry about Emma.

KITSIS: It feels pretty soon to wrap that up. In the final episode, she is dealing with the journey of being a hero, trying to get other people to believe, and then she’s going to be faced with making a very big sacrifice.

Nothing there sounds like Emma is the next villain. But you never know with A&E.

 

Every new interview makes me more worried about the finale and about next season. And every time I feel worse for Michael Socha and Colin O'Donoghue. Not only they have been sidelined this half season (well, Socha all season), but it seems they don't have any kind of role in the finale, and probably next season.

[KingOfHearts]

No Anastasia in the finale. :(

[YaddaYadda]

but it seems they don't have any kind of role in the finale, and probably next season.

 

To be fair, I don't think A&E have the vaguest idea what's going to happen next season.  They probably know which characters they are bringing in and that's basically about it.

 

I wonder if they're sober when they do their brainstorm sessions and write the episodes.  

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Another article:

http://www.eonline.com/news/652595/once-upon-a-time-which-couple-should-fans-be-most-worried-about

 

I don't know if the intern who typed this was having a rough day or if A&E are really inept at forming complete thoughts but this seems to be the worst of their crop of articles.

 

This is the beginning of a quote re: Hook on Emma going dark:

"Well, I think that it what he is trying to say to her. He's often tried to share with her, which is the advice he had, that you don't start off wanting to be a villain, but you convince yourself you're doing it for the right reasons," Kitsis says.

A lil clunky there.

 

Then re: couples:

"For the various couples on our show, that either exist or may exist, there's some real emotional moments coming that will show hopefully some new insight to all the new relationships we've seen, whether it's Rumple and Belle, Hook and Emma or Regina and Robin Hood," Horowitz says. "I think we've worked hard to put in some moments that are really emotional and give you insight into who they are and who they may or may not become."

How are any of these relationships new? I guess "new" in terms of their screwy timeline but for fans these relationships are at least a season old. Also, is he trying to be metaphysical with "either exist or may exist"?

 

As if there aren't already nervous nellies in their fandom:

"I would say it's fair to worry about everyone. There should be a lot of anxiety in the fandom."

Kitsis reiterates that fans "should be worried about everybody...you never know what craziness is going to happen."

I don't feel sorry for them when the nervous nellies slam them with worrying tweets when they ask for it.

[Souris]

Hell, I'm starting to really believe Zelena's going to be a regular next year, so we'll all get front row seats on the progression of her pregnancy.

Well, I really hope next year's going to have some good pilots, because it sure seems like I'll need a replacement for Once. I guess I can still stick around and snark at the stuff that happens without watching the show.

 

There were rumors that Sean's appearance rep told a few people that Sean & Rebecca Mader would be regulars next season.

 

After reading this, I don't think so.

Nothing there sounds like Emma is the next villain. But you never know with A&E.

 

Every new interview makes me more worried about the finale and about next season. And every time I feel worse for Michael Socha and Colin O'Donoghue. Not only they have been sidelined this half season (well, Socha all season), but it seems they don't have any kind of role in the finale, and probably next season.

 

Certainly sounds like that, doesn't it? It's criminal how they're wasting such talented actors -- especially Colin, who is so popular.

 

As for Emma's sacrifice, I think her sacrifice IS to go dark with the dagger by sucking up all the Dark One mojo. Whether it's to the level of her being a Big Bad or just more prone to darkness next season, I don't know.

 

I don't feel sorry for them when the nervous nellies slam them with worrying tweets when they ask for it.

 

Not a bit. When you needle and troll already upset fans, you deserve everything you get from it.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Souris

[FurryFury]

There were rumors that Sean's appearance rep told a few people that Sean & Rebecca Mader would be regulars next season.

 

Yeah, this is what I was referring to. Can you imagine a half-season (or two) focused on Regina/Robin/Zelena situation? Joy!

[kili]

Can you imagine a half-season (or two) focused on Regina/Robin/Zelena situation?

 

Now I'm lying in a fetal position beside my metaphorical bike. The hill beyond the next rise has become a cliff.

[Emma]

This show and its spoilers make me cry in all the wrong ways.

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Now I'm lying in a fetal position beside my metaphorical bike. The hill beyond the next rise has become a cliff.

I try to take spoilers with a grain of salt and wait to see what's onscreen but geez they're not giving us much to cling to that season 5 is going to right this. Too soon to start praying for a Disney/ABC intervention?

[FurryFury]

The only hope for the show is if ratings fall down to 1.5s even for the finale, then I could imagine some sort of creative meddling (even if it's unlikely because 1.5 is now basically enough for a drama to be renewed on most networks). With 1.7s it's now pulling, I'm sure ABC don't give a damn.

[YaddaYadda]

The more they talk, the less I have to hang on to.  The last 3 episodes seem to be very Regina heavy and it just...thanks, but no thanks.

Edited May 1, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

Another article:

http://www.eonline.com/news/652595/once-upon-a-time-which-couple-should-fans-be-most-worried-about

 

I don't know if the intern who typed this was having a rough day or if A&E are really inept at forming complete thoughts but this seems to be the worst of their crop of articles.

This article is terrible. It's terribly written and A&E are talking nonsense.

Will it never end? This poor woman has been through enough already! I wish they would just give her a break for more than a few weeks...

Yeah, poor Emma. I hate the idea some fans have that because she is the protagonist, she has to be the last one the get her happy ending. It's absurd and infuriating that both Rumple and Regina (two character that don't deserve one) are going to get their happy endings before she does.

 

[YaddaYadda]

And this one for your reading pleasure

 

I'm really not sure what do with myself.

[Mathius]

LMAO at the article taking a shot at Robin's "code" drama and A&E practically BEGGING the OQ shippers to "watch it live". They are desperate for a boost in the live ratings, so I really hope it backfires on them spectacularly.

[Shanna Marie]

She is reeling from what Zelena has done to her

Yes, Regina is the real victim here. The horrible stuff was done to her, not to anyone else.

 

GAAAAAHHHH. Nice of them to warn us that the majority of the hour will be devoted to that plot line. I may watch Call the Midwife live and catch this later OnDemand.

[YaddaYadda]

I think what might backfire on them is the way they promoted this episode at the end of the last one and what we have an idea will happen.  If I wasn't spoiled, I would think Sunday's episode is about Lily getting her revenge on Snowing and I would absolutely tune in to watch that.  But knowing what I know right now, I might re-prioritize my Sunday night and dump Once from the schedule.

 

If I were A&E, I'd be more worried about the 2 hour finale if the ratings on Sunday are low.  Plus, they penned the "epic" finale, so we'll see.

[Souris]

I love how that ET article reduces a rape baby to "baby mama drama."

 

I hate the idea some fans have that because she is the protagonist, she has to be the last one the get her happy ending. It's absurd and infuriating that both Rumple and Regina (two character that don't deserve one) are going to get their happy endings before she does.

 

It's not some fans, it's A&E. They came out and said early in the show that Emma's happy ending would be the last one. It's completely sucky and assbackward that Regina & Rumple will get happy endings AT ALL, let alone before Emma.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Souris

[Mari]

If I were A&E, I'd be more worried about the 2 hour finale if the ratings on Sunday are low. Plus, they penned the "epic" finale, so we'll see.

Yes. The bits they've let slip about Operation Mongoose don't strike me as drawing viewers in, either. I can't say I've seen a big outcry anywhere in the fandom requesting a two hour concept movie starring Henry.