CatMack March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 (edited) Basically none of the spoilers for the rest of the season really interest me. A few Captain Swan scenes I look forward too, and I actually don't mind the Lily/Mal stuff in theory, though how it plays out will likely be obnoxious. At this point, my only hope for this show is that this half season wraps up Regina's happy ending arc and we go back to a more normal level of Regina centricity. I mean, these writers have always had their heads up Regina's butt, but when I think about season 4 compared to earlier seasons, it wasn't this bad before. Whether Regina gets her happy ending or learns her lesson about waiting for good things to come or however they decide to end this fuckery, maybe someone else will get to take at least a little bit of the spotlight back from her next season. Cuz if not, I'm probably gonna be out after this. I'm not even sure I'll actually make it all the way to the end of this season as it is. Edited March 22, 2015 by CatMack 4 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 Basically none of the spoilers for the rest of the season really interest me. A few Captain Swan scenes I look forward too, and I actually don't mind the Lily/Mal stuff in theory, though how it plays out will likely be obnoxious. At this point, my only hope for this show is that this half season wraps up Regina's happy ending arc and we go back to a more normal level of Regina centricity. I mean, these writers have always had their heads up Regina's butt, but when I think about season 4 compared to earlier seasons, it wasn't this bad before. Whether Regina gets her happy ending or learns her lesson about waiting for good things to come or however they decide to end this fuckery, maybe someone else will get to take at least a little bit of the spotlight back from her next season. Cuz if not, I'm probably gonna be out after this. I'm not even sure I'll actually make it all the way to the end of this season as it is. I'm still two (and soon to be three) episodes behind. Also, that's why I've begun to yearn for season 5 already. The pattern for this show has become (or is supposed to be) emma/others-focused in the first half, Regina-dominated second half. I'm ready for 5a. I do want to know what has become of Rumple though. Also it kinda sounds like the 3 queens of darkness don't all have their stories wrapped up at the same time from what I can tell. I wonder how Rumple will take the news of his girl band breaking up. Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 (edited) and I actually don't mind the Lily/Mal stuff in theory, though how it plays out will likely be obnoxious. Lily is the girl who grew up in the LwM just like Emma who might be told that her mother is Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty and she goes with Emma willy nilly? It took Emma a year to believe anything and even then, she still has moments of disbelief. I don't even know how any of that will play out, but I'm sure it will be filled with weirdness and nonsense. Edited March 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
KAOS Agent March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 I'd enjoy some Emma/Lily "I know, right?" Moments of acknowledging the weirdness of Storybrooke. For too long Emma has been the only one who is the outsider (well there was that brief time where Henry got it, but that's over now). It would be nice if someone else was there to vocalize that Storybrooke is not at all like the rest of the world. It's almost too bad that Snowing isn't being sent out to find Lily and fix their mistake because I'd love to see them struggle and get a better understanding of how/where their daughter grew up. 3 Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 (edited) 2 script teases. 1 is from the promo we got with Hook/Ursula. The second one sounds like Ursula is getting her happy ending. Edited March 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 The second one sounds like Ursula is getting her happy ending. Well now we know at least Ursula was banished to LWM. Link to comment
Shanna Marie March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 In an interesting bit of scheduling, given that tonight's episode is Ursula's backstory, ABC Family is showing The Little Mermaid right now. It just started. Link to comment
pezgirl7 March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 I hope the one where Urusula says "stand back" is her summoning the Jolly Roger! Link to comment
HoodlumSheep March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 Well now we know at least Ursula was banished to LWM. But will they show us when she's banished? Because she sounded fully grown in the Little mermaid fairyback. Link to comment
OnceUponAJen March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 (edited) In an interesting bit of scheduling, given that tonight's episode is Ursula's backstory, ABC Family is showing The Little Mermaid right now. It just started. And now Sleeping Beauty is on! Maleficent.....YAAAS! She doesn't need a sob story...she's just pure evil! Edited March 22, 2015 by OnceUponAJen Link to comment
HoodlumSheep March 22, 2015 Share March 22, 2015 What are people's opinions about this tweet: https://twitter.com/ernie_hudson/status/579773315759218689 The more live tweets, the sooner he'll return? As in the better possibility he'll show up as poseidon again? As in he has a chance of not dying (he could also be the one who banishes ursula)? Link to comment
Watt March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Man I am dying that they used Mysterious Fathoms Below. Love it so much. Used the melody of the singing voice too with the shell. 1 Link to comment
Bluerang1 March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 So the author is quite obviously the Utz guy and if Lily isn't the sorcerer then who is it? Also the promo makes it look like Snowing really did do something evil. Is Emma even their child or did they pull a switcheroo? Which would mean that Malificent had a baby with her true love? She and Emma are both blonde and Lily has dark hair like Snow... nahhh not going to happen. Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I just saw the Canadian promo and all I have to say is "fuck you Snow." 1 Link to comment
retrograde March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Ooh what happens in the Canadian promo? Is it online? 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 It is, but I can't bring it. Basically, David tells Snow that things will be fine, but Snow is all like no they won't, our baby is EVIL. Yup, that's right, the baby in the womb is evil. Hook tells them what Ursula told him. Maleficent puts the town to sleep. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 So, next week it looks like it's all about the Charming family issues. Glad we're finally going to be diving into that little pit of horrors. 3 Link to comment
retrograde March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Ah that sounds way more informative than the ABC one. I'm not really looking forward to a whole hour of angst next week, though I guess I can't say I didn't know it was coming. And at least they're finally addressing the ~big SEKRIT of Emma's evil heart~ instead of just hinting at it. 1 Link to comment
Emma March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I hope Emma's "I don't care" is just the beginning towards Snow. I really need my long awaited bitch fest. I have a lot built up since echo cave. 3 Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I hope Emma's "I don't care" is just the beginning towards Snow. I really need my long awaited bitch fest. I have a lot built up since echo cave. amen! That can of worms need to be opened and emptied before it's ever closed. So dumb and dumber made a deal with the Sorcerer's Apprentice and they apparently steal a fucking baby because their own baby is "evil". Yeah, I hope Emma never speaks to them again. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) Here is the CTV promo. I'm calling it - Regina's dream was a premonition of the season finale. Maybe that's the costume spoiler Lana was talking about? Edited March 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts 1 Link to comment
scenicbyway March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Now that the Jolly's back...Killian and Emma can move in? No new set needed? Especially if she has a falling out with her parents? 4 Link to comment
retrograde March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 So the dialog between Hook and Will tonight did indicate they knew each other in the past. But judging by that interview where it came up, doesn't sound like they'll address it again this season anyway. Link to comment
Selina K March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I hope IMo's costume spoiler is about going full evil queen / princess in Op Mongoose 1&2. I would love to see her chew the hell out of the scenery Lana usually gets to nosh on. I'm kind of meh on Charming family issues. If it sends Emma to Killian for comfort and reassurance there is that to look forward to I guess. Do we think Emma is going to biologically not be Snow and Charmings? How would that be possible? That would seriously aggravate me, too, but timing wise Snow gave birth, Charming fought dark knights, and stuck Emma in the wardrobe. How could a switch work? Is it just they sacrifice Mal 's kid to the author as a future plot point to be played when convenient? And then when Mal gets her kid back it breaks whatever deal Snow and Charming made with the author? I'm giving this more thought than it probably merits. I'm riding my little Captain Swan high from tonight, though so I'm idly speculating more than I typically do. 1 Link to comment
Souris March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 If they make Emma not Snow and David's child, that would be beyond insulting and table-flippy. 7 Link to comment
Mari March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Do we think Emma is going to biologically not be Snow and Charmings? How would that be possible? That would seriously aggravate me, too, but timing wise Snow gave birth, Charming fought dark knights, and stuck Emma in the wardrobe. How could a switch work? Is it just they sacrifice Mal 's kid to the author as a future plot point to be played when convenient? If they did do some sort of baby swap, they would have had to do it womb to womb. And that still wouldn't solve the problem of "darkest heart," because if they did an in utero baby swap, they still got a baby with dark heart issues--and if the not-as-dark baby ended up Emma, then how dark would original Charming "evil baby" be? There's gotta be something else going on. Link to comment
Selina K March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 If they make Emma not Snow and David's child, that would be beyond insulting and table-flippy. I agree. There was something about the way Snow said the "I am your mother" line in the promo, though, that set off my suspicion radar. But my ability to read stuff arguably sucks, so I'm hoping that's what it is. Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) I don't think they swap babies. I think Snowing literally steal Maleficent's baby from her and bring it to the Apprentice for whatever deal. That's probably how Lily ends up in the LwM. Emma is born on the night the curse is cast, so there's no chance of a swap and Maleficent was pregnant before Snow was, so Lily is actually a few months older than Emma. Edited March 23, 2015 by YaddaYadda 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) I don't think they swap babies. I think Snowing literally steal Maleficent's baby from her and bring it to the Apprentice for whatever deal. That's probably how Lily ends up in the LwM. Emma is born on the night the curse is cast, so there's no chance of a swap and Maleficent was pregnant before Snow was, so Lily is actually a few months older than Emma. Unless they swapped fetuses. But I doubt that. Tonight's episode showed me how the rest of 4B is going to play out. Each villain is going to get their happy ending in a centric, except for Rumple. Cruella will get hers in 4x18, Maleficent will get hers in 4x20, and Regina will be the last one. It'll all be "proof" that they didn't need to find the Author after all. Regina will get hers finally in 4x21-22. I'm guessing Regina decides not to alter fate after all, but Rumple comes in and does it anyway. Instant two-hour finale. Edited March 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
OnceUponAJen March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Well, did my eyes deceive me or didn't the promo show Snow and David walking away from Maleficent clutching that big egg? Link to comment
Souris March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) I saw an interesting theory in my post-ep Internet surfing: That Hook will sacrifice himself to save Emma and her heart from going dark by blocking/absorbing the darkness that Rumple intends to fill Emma's heart with. You know, by jumping in front of her or whatever. That would, of course, require it to be more of a curse/spell than a luring her to the dark side. I could totally see that happening, because of the multiple spoilery quotes about Hook risking everything to protect Emma's heart, protecting Emma's heart is his main goal, etc. (Putting this here instead of Nonspoilery Spec because of those quotes.) On the one hand, if that makes him go dark again, it'll be annoying and repetitive as hell to sit through his entire arc AGAIN. True, Emma would be fighting for him this time in earnest (I would hope), but I really don't want to do it all over again. But knowing these writers and their huge repetitive streak, I expect it. There would be parallels there with Charming stepping in front of Snow's arrow meant for Regina in order to keep her from committing murder and going dark. And it would also kind of tie back to the "love is a weapon" line they've used twice so far. He could take the Jolly Roger and sail through a portal to another realm, since portals seem to be a dime a dozen these days. Then Emma and whoever could go after him. Perhaps he could end up getting his memories back with a TLK at some point next season. I mean, you know there's going to be some kind of big obstacle for Captain Swan at the end of the season, because they've been too together and happy together so far this season. Can't have that for too long! Edited March 23, 2015 by Souris 2 Link to comment
The Cake is a Pie March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I don't know why they're all making a big deal about everyone else having to protect Emma from darkness, like she's some helpless, innocent flower. She can handle herself. I hope she bitchslaps them all and points out that she has faced darkness before and chose to embrace being a hero. I hope that statement from A&E from a while ago that there was "no budget" for Emma to get her own place was just them being coy about it being the plan all along to get the Jolly Roger back and having Hook and Emma live there together. 6 Link to comment
retrograde March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) She clearly gets mad at her parents next week, but then the 4.18 BTS photos have her out working with her parents and Hook searching for something with flashlights. And then she is evidently mad at them again by the Lily episode. So... hard to know just how angry she is with them and for what reasons and how consistently. ETA: Actually wait. The ones with her parents are 4.17. There were very similar ones from 4.18, but those were just with Hook and Henry, it seems. So ignore me and carry on. Edited March 23, 2015 by retrograde Link to comment
KAOS Agent March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) I don't think Emma has to necessarily be at all happy with her parents to work with them to stop Gold's plan. It seems to me that she can renounce her family relationship with these idiots who are all worried about how she's Baby Hitler while still acknowledging that they currently have the same goals. I also expect her to move in with Hook on the Jolly Roger because she can't live with her idiotic parents any longer. Not to mention that no sane person would voluntarily live with a newborn infant that is not in their care. I'm ever so hopeful that Emma lets it rip next episode. Please, please, please make this happen because I need it so badly. I see Jane Espenson co-wrote it (and also solely wrote the "Mother" ep so that definitely explains the Cora re-emergence), so it has the potential not to completely suck before the inevitable suckfest that is the Nimerfro written Robin Hood episode. Edited March 23, 2015 by KAOS Agent 1 Link to comment
Souris March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I don't think she'll move in with Hook on the Jolly. He'll probably move onto the Jolly and she'll take his room at Granny's. Or move in with Regina -- that's still out there IMO. Or, more likely, we'll have no idea where she's staying because the show won't address it. 2 Link to comment
KAOS Agent March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Or, more likely, we'll have no idea where she's staying because the show won't address it. Well of course they won't, which means I can stick with my Emma is living with Hook and both of them are enjoying it immensely headcanon. 5 Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I'm ever so hopeful that Emma lets it rip next episode. I think she does. I mean the whole "I'm your mother" from Snow, seems to me like Emma has a few choice words for her before Snow says that line. I mean it's such a passive-aggressive way of telling someone to not talk to their parent that way. I also expect her to move in with Hook on the Jolly Roger because she can't live with her idiotic parents any longer. It could happen! I mean Emma goes to Hook on the docks at night next week. They also filmed at the docks during 420. So there are possibilities. Seems like snowing fuck up even more by trying to "fix" things and protect her. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I forgot, how many episodes is Eion supposed to be back for? 3? 4? 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Seems like snowing fuck up even more by trying to "fix" things and protect her. At this point, they have to know on some level that they are only trying to protect their own behinds. TBH, it's unbelievable to me that Sniw and Charming actually grabbed someone's baby. So, them losing Emma, and for a while--Neal--was karma? Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 At this point, they have to know on some level that they are only trying to protect their own behinds. I think you hit the nail on the head. As far as the whole babynapping thing, I mean seriously, if they did that and I'm pretty sure they did, then they suck. And karma for losing Emma? All magic comes with a price. The Sorcerer must've wanted something with Maleficent's kid. He opened the portal for Ingrid in exchange for the hat (which he then went and lost again like a big dummy). He saves fetus Emma from being evil in exchange of a dragon baby? The whole evil baby thing makes me wanna flip a table to be honest. Now we're labeling babies in utero. This is horrible. 6 Link to comment
sharky March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I forgot, how many episodes is Eion supposed to be back for? 3? 4? I hope it's many more since I really loved seeing him back last night and I loved that little interaction he had with Emma. It's nice to see them together again. Anyway, I googled it and couldn't find much. IMDB only has him listed for the past two episodes and the closest I found to a definitive number was this TV Line article from December but it was vague. "Eion Bailey will reprise his role as August (aka Pinocchio) in multiple Season 4 episodes, starting with Episode 14, which is titled “Enter the Dragon,” TVLine has learned." Of course, the TVLine article had this gem: "Since August is just a young lad now, it’s likely Bailey will appear only in flashbacks — perhaps some connected to the storybook’s sought-after author?" So yea....we weren't the only ones that got that wrong. I wonder sometimes if anyone ever goes back 60 pages or something to see just how wrong our spoilers were. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I hope it's many more since I really loved seeing him back last night and I loved that little interaction he had with Emma. It's nice to see them together again. Anyway, I googled it and couldn't find much. IMDB only has him listed for the past two episodes and the closest I found to a definitive number was this TV Line article from December but it was vague. "Eion Bailey will reprise his role as August (aka Pinocchio) in multiple Season 4 episodes, starting with Episode 14, which is titled “Enter the Dragon,” TVLine has learned." Of course, the TVLine article had this gem: "Since August is just a young lad now, it’s likely Bailey will appear only in flashbacks — perhaps some connected to the storybook’s sought-after author?" So yea....we weren't the only ones that got that wrong. I wonder sometimes if anyone ever goes back 60 pages or something to see just how wrong our spoilers were. Hasn't he been MIA in recent filming pics (he could be doing in-studio stuff, but...)? Like Rumple. It'll be interesting to see if they decide to keep him full grown or turn him back into a little boy. I liked him and Emma as a brotp back before all the nonsense in season 2. I wonder how Gepetto is handling all of this. Link to comment
Rumsy4 March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 As far as the whole babynapping thing, I mean seriously, if they did that and I'm pretty sure they did, then they suck. And karma for losing Emma? All magic comes with a price. None of the nonsense related to Regina or Cora ever made me feel that Snow or Eva were horrible, and deserved what they got. But with the babynapping, A&E have finally succeeded in making me lose sympathy for Snowing. I still want to wait and see how it plays out on-screen, but with that clip from the promo of Snow actually grabbing the baby from Mal, it seems definitive. A&E may prevaricate, but no one is going to convince me that this not a retcon that they pulled out of thin air for this half-season. 6 Link to comment
Souris March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 It's total retcon, just to besmirch Snowing to make Regina look better. No doubt. I don't think they'll do a baby swap, thankfully, since Emma is presenting Lily to Mal when they return to Storybrooke. Link to comment
YaddaYadda March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 So since things seem to be pointing to an alternate sort of universe for the season finale, did anyone else get some weird vibe when Hook mentioned he wished he could have put the Dark One's dagger through his heart and Emma telling him that if he had done that, it would his name that would be on the dagger. And then there was the bridge scene where Emma goes on her mini rant about doing it herself. Am I the only one who got weird vibes about this? 2 Link to comment
OnceUponAJen March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 The dagger talk may be foreshadowing. Belle almost broke the Dark One curse with a TLK with Rumple before he stopped her. If that happens with Hook or Emma depends on whether the show might actually consider losing Robert Carlyle (forgive me if the spelling is wrong on that!) 1 Link to comment
sharky March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I think you got weird vibes from it because the bridge scene was as subtle as an anvil -- and not because of Hook. It was all about Emma's parents thinking her heart is going to go dark and I can totally see that bridge scene playing out further next week with her parents' big secret. I can see the alternate universe thing playing out, but I feel that if we go that route there will still be one constant: Rumple. There are only so many things you can change and The Dark One doesn't seem like it could be one of them. 2 Link to comment
retrograde March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 I don't think Hook talking about the dagger was foreshadowing to him becoming the dark one; I think it was a reminder that he still has anger, and will still do rash and violent things based on that anger -- especially where Rumple is concerned -- thus foreshadowing the scene where he pulls the gun on Ursula. Link to comment
KingOfHearts March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 (edited) A&E may prevaricate, but no one is going to convince me that this not a retcon that they pulled out of thin air for this half-season. True, but this is the sort of thing I'd expect from these two. Preserving their kin or twisted moral standard in exchange for screwing everyone else over is right up their alley. (Freeing Regina from execution, casting the Dark Curse, etc.) Though, that doesn't stop me from believing this is just a contrived reason to lower heroes and lift villains, or to give Emma a reason out of thin air to go dark. Hopefully, even though A&E don't intend to, this will bring up some parenting issues that have been there since 3A. It did in 4A when the Snow Queen agitated Emma, if only for a brief moment. There's more build-up this time so might get some meatier material. I forgot, how many episodes is Eion supposed to be back for? 3? 4? With the infinite cameos this season, I doubt they'll fit him in for long. The only reason he's been in multiple episodes is because he's part of Operation Stupid. Edited March 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts 1 Link to comment
Souris March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 IF IF IF the season ends with Hook in another realm, it would be a great thing if Emma and Snowing went after him. They could repair their relationship by working to save Hook. They can leave Woegina behind in Storybrooke to look after Henry. (And Neal, since she's sooooo good with kids. Blech.) That would be ideal. I doubt it will happen, because TS, TW, but that's what I'd want. 2 Link to comment
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