Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

Everything Hook holds dear or Gold holds dear?

I'm thinking it's Gold, since the focus of Hook's Jiminy Cricket act with Rumple has been on how all these things Rumple is doing are only going to destroy the things/people/relationships he supposedly cares about. He's specifically pointed out Henry, Emma as Henry's mother, and the fact that Belle truly loves Rumple and is only going to be destroyed by what Rumple's up to. To which Rumple in his arrogance keeps saying that he's going to have it all and that he has a plan for it. Which generally means that Rumple's quest to have it all without giving up anything will result in him losing everything. Even if he gains power, he's going to lose Belle.

 

Or so we could hope. She might just find it a turn-on. And he can't lose too much because he's in the opening credits and it's this show, where former villains whose names start with R never face consequences.

[retrograde]

Or so we could hope. She might just find it a turn-on. And he can't lose too much because he's in the opening credits and it's this show, where former villains whose names start with R never face consequences.

Also the fact that this half-season's theme is apparently "Never give up on the people you love" (or something) makes me nervous. If there was ever a time to give up on the person you love, it would be this (or also if you found out they had murdered your wife).

[The Cake is a Pie]

Or if you found out he had murdered his own wife (I'm talking to YOU, Belle).

[Shanna Marie]

Also the fact that this half-season's theme is apparently "Never give up on the people you love" (or something) makes me nervous. If there was ever a time to give up on the person you love, it would be this (or also if you found out they had murdered your wife).

That's the problem with blanket statements like that and "heroes don't kill." You state something like that as a virtue, and then you're stuck with some really twisted stuff. That's even one of the reasons people in abusive relationships stay, that they don't want to give up on someone they love. But when the person you love is torturing people, killing/destroying people in order to get what he wants, and planning to remove your own free will to force you to stay with him, then yeah, you give up on him, or at least distance yourself from the situation.

 

Plus, it makes Rumple look rather wimpy if after all this he can be so easily be pulled back from the brink by Belle, whose wishes up to this point haven't mattered to him, just saying she loves him and refusing to give up on him. It's not like that's a newsflash, so why would it stop him now when all the previous reminders haven't? Which means this is exactly the way it will go. Belle will save Rumple with her love, he'll change his mind and be hailed as a hero for doing so.

[Joanh23]

so I'm guessing that Regina's "big decision" is whether or not to return Marian's heart - I completely forgot that Regina has Marian's heart as I don't think they've mentioned it since she took it in ep2 or 3….

 

And they really have set up 4.11 as the one where they reveal that Rumple is the big bad, I am excited about it but at the same time they have so much they need to achieve.  It will either be a brilliant episode or a mess….

[YaddaYadda]

We also know Blue returns by 4.12, and it seems unlikely that happens in 4.12, so yeah, I'm going to agree/hope that there are more guest stars.

 

Hmm. Everything Hook holds dear or Gold holds dear? If it's the former, this either means:

 

1) For whatever reason, Rumple decides he is going to kill Emma after all

2) By "everything he holds dear" they're referring to his life

3) This is a poorly written press release that doesn't really reflect what is in the episode

It's Gold's quest for power that threatens what Gold holds dear.

 

I really good give a fuck (sorry, cannot think of a more appropriate word) about what Gold holds dear.  The villain masquerading as a somewhat "reformed" villain and people put more fate in him because of he married poor insipid idiot Belle who never ever questions him and thinks he has a true heart but who also loves every dark part of him.  I think I've about had it with this whole entire couple.

 

I hope Rumple falls and when he falls it will be from very high and he still doesn't get it because there are pics of him hanging out with two out of three mistresses of darkness or whatever the promo called them.

 

All I've got to say is that even when Hook's life is saved by some miracle, and unless they have him be completely protected by light magic or something to that effect, I don't think it's over 'til it's over between those two.  I don't think Rumple will take his takedown lightly.

 

And there will be a rant of enormous proportion if he's pulled back from the brink at the very last second.  He is a terrible person, a dark wizard and should be treated as such.  It's enough that Regina has been absolved of all her sins.

 

Also...wasn't there something about a final battle that was mentioned in the show's first season?  Because please tell me that this is the set up for it.

[Curio]

And there will be a rant of enormous proportion if he's pulled back from the brink at the very last second.

 

Based on how much they're trying to cram into this final episode and also knowing that Rumple teams up with the Enchanted Forest Mean Girls (EFMG?) in 4B, I doubt he'll be pulled back from the brink in 4.11. With all the material the writers have to cover in the finale, I actually think the cliffhanger might be Belle finding out about everything, and then 4B is the Rumbelle fallout from it all.

[HeimrArnadalr]

How do we actually know for sure that Cruella is from the Enchanted Forest? It looked like there were trees behind her in the promo, but they could have been Storybrooke trees. The press release mentions an intrusion at Rumple's dark castle, but Cruella need not be a part of that specific incident. 

 

Plus, she has that car. Where would one get a car like that in the Enchanted Forest?

 

I still sort-of think that Cruella is Lilith. She probably wanted more than anything to win that stuffed dalmatian, but when Emma got it and crushed her dreams it instilled a deep hatred for dalmatians in her. We know that we'll see Lily again, and what better way to do it than as a villain who had her life ruined by Emma?

[Mathius]

Lily/Lilith is more likely related to the Sorcerer: why else emphasize a star birthmark?

Plus, Cruella isn't played by a Latino actress, which adult Lily would have to be.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Mathius

[HeimrArnadalr]

Yeah, that's probably more likely. I still do hope that Cruella is from our world, though.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yeah, that's probably more likely. I still do hope that Cruella is from our world, though.

Same. Weren't there giant rocks behind her in the promo? There's some kind of cave opening behind Cruella to the left. You can barely see it at the end of the shot.

Edited December 9, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[HeimrArnadalr]

I couldn't tell, and the youtube video is too blurry to make it out. I thought I saw something rocky, though.

[KingOfHearts]

Set photo:

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/542401607355219969

 

Looks like Cruella left all her Dalmatian fur on the ground!

[Emma]

Script Tease. Must bleach brain now. Did not need that image in my head.

 

https://twitter.com/adamhorowitzla/status/542418879515869184

[YaddaYadda]

Belle is such a fucking moron.  As much as I want Rumple to get what's coming to him and I hope his ass pays the piper, I cannot wait to see Belle with egg on her face.  She enables him because she refuses to buy a clue.

 

I really can't stand this couple, they're such a mess.

[Shanna Marie]

I was a little dismayed at the number of "oh, the feels!" responses, but there did seem to be a few "buy a clue" and "do we get to see her kick him" responses in there that give me hope for humanity.

[Souris]

MRJ tweeted about meeting up with Colin and Sean for lunch in LA today. Given that JMo has been in NY for a few days and Colin is in LA for some reason, safe to say no Emma or Hook filming today. According to area people on Tumblr, the show is still on filming 4x13, likely to start 4x14 Thursday or Friday.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Souris

[Geeni]

Aw, I love that MRJ still keeps in touch with the cast. He was always a cool guy, despite whatever feelings people had about Neal.

[retrograde]

TVGuide:

 

I can't wait for Maleficent to get back to Storybrooke! Got any scoop for her arc on Once Upon a Time this season? — Annie
You're not the only one! Lana Parrilla, who plays Regina, says that the frenemies will share a "huge" flashback episode that takes place before Maleficent (in dragon form) was defeated by Emma. "Regina and Maleficent have a really interesting history," she says. "You'll see how they met and how they became friends."

[Souris]

Sean replied to MRJ that he looked forward to seeing him for the "real fun" soon. Cue speculation about Neal haunting Rumple from the grave over his evil deeds, LOL.

[YaddaYadda]

Re: Maleficent/Regina

 

No surprise there, we all knew it was coming.  Totally mentally prepared to zone out.

[retrograde]

Eh, while I dislike what they do with present-day Regina, I'm all for seeing her and Maleficent hanging out together in more evil times. 

[YaddaYadda]

Eh, while I dislike what they do with present-day Regina, I'm all for seeing her and Maleficent hanging out together in more evil times.

 

You know, I really get what you're saying.  If you had asked me a year ago (3A), I would have been right there with you because the Evil Queen was an entertaining character.  But with everything that happened since, Regina, Evil Queen, OQ, Marian, 4x05, I can't.  It sucks, because I really want to enjoy the Maleficent arc and these super villainesses.  That being said, I'm already pretty sad that the show will be gone for 10 weeks. 

[HeimrArnadalr]

Sean replied to MRJ that he looked forward to seeing him for the "real fun" soon. Cue speculation about Neal haunting Rumple from the grave over his evil deeds, LOL.

 

Actually, a Scrooge-like redemption for Rumple I could probably buy. We could have the Ghost of Enchanted Forest Past, the Ghost of Storybrooke Present, and the Ghost of World Without Magic Future, showing Rumple in great detail where he went wrong and the ruin that the path he's on will lead him to.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Sean replied to MRJ that he looked forward to seeing him for the "real fun" soon. Cue speculation about Neal haunting Rumple from the grave over his evil deeds, LOL.

 

Rumple kills Marian in exchange for Neal with the forces of the hat. Captain Swan angst, and Outlaw Queen is a full go! The writers would do this.

 

(After that long, boring gravesite scene in 4x01 that Rumple completely ignored later, we better get a ghost Neal.)

Edited December 10, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

Maybe Colin is in LA to do promo? He doesn't have family there, and it seems strange to go just for fun when he needs to be back to film 414 before the break. But yeah, it looks like present time filming for 413 is over and they're doing EF now.

[Souris]

I hope promo but there could be any number of biz reasons: meeting with a new agent, setting up a gig for the hiatus, something for The Dust Storm he filmed last hiatus. But it does seem they were filming flashback today.

Oddly, for all the Maleficent talk, the actress hasn't been spotted filming yet. She must be doing all interiors so far, unless a location shoot went unspoiled.

[retrograde]

(When I lived in the Pacific Northwest, I took any long weekend that wasn't in summer as an excuse to go somewhere less gray and drizzly. Hell, sometimes I just cut out of work early on a Friday and flew somewhere else for regular weekends, too).

One of the set stalkers said on tumblr that a few people had told them they'd seen Maleficent at one location, but they themselves hadn't.

[jhlipton]

Not sure this goes here -- if not, mods please move it...

 

So,at the end of last week's show, the villains for 4b were introduced: Cruella de Ville, Maleficent and Ursala.  (I think that Ursala should be large and purple, but these three look like they'll be auditioning for parts in The Evil Cleavage Band.)  No previous villains have been Disney property outright the way these three are, and with Maleficent just out on DVD, and Ariel one of the favoritist "princesses", I'm hopeful that Disney will still have a major presence in the writer's room.  Do I dare to hope for 9 more episodes with decent characterization?

[sharky]

Oddly, for all the Maleficent talk, the actress hasn't been spotted filming yet. She must be doing all interiors so far, unless a location shoot went unspoiled.

You know, I'm really starting to wonder about Maleficent. We've seen Cruella and Ursala all over Storybrooke, we've seen them film on location with our "heroes". I'm really starting to wonder if Maleficent will only be making appearances in flashbacks and not the present day. It would help explain how she's dead under the library without some weird contrived reason for how she came back to life [but don't put that past the writers]. It just seems odd that it's been billed as a trio of evil, but we've only seen two of them. Do we know how many episodes Kristen Bauer Van Straten signed on for?

[RadioGirl27]

But Ursula and Cruella alone as villains are not enough. Neither of them seem that menacing. So, unless Rumple is the actual big bad and the girls are just a distraction, they need Maleficent in present time.

[Serena]

I think Ursula can be pretty menacing. I certainly thought she was pretty scary in the movie, and she's supposed to be a goddes in the Once universe, which should be more powerful than anything they've encountered before.

 

But I do believe we'll see Maleficient in present time. I mean, weren't there spoilers of the dragon busting out of the library in 412?

[Souris]

I think we'll see Maleficent in present-day, too. I just find it interesting there are no set pics of her yet. It does sound like she initially busts out in dragon form. Maybe Rumple, Ursula and Cruella help return her to person form. Maybe they need her for some reason in their scheme. Because they're a Trio of Evil, there must be a scheme.

[retrograde]

But I do believe we'll see Maleficient in present time. I mean, weren't there spoilers of the dragon busting out of the library in 412?

People in set saw townspeople running from the library and Emma and Regina doing magic against something, but I believe the dragon thing was pure speculation on their part.

I also think we'll see her in the present day, though perhaps not in human form at first, which would account for the actress's absence (though in reality, we only know what one unit was shooting for a grand total of about three or four days across two episodes, which is hardly a complete picture).

Edited December 10, 2014 by retrograde

[Mitch]

But Ursula and Cruella alone as villains are not enough. Neither of them seem that menacing. So, unless Rumple is the actual big bad and the girls are just a distraction, they need Maleficent in present time.

LOL..none of the villans on Once are particularly "menacing." Witchipoo from H.R. Puffenstuff would be more effective then the Evil Queen and Sparkle Dark is just more annoying then anything else. At this point the villains don't need to be menancing but campy and fun and throwing insults at heros and Regina and Rump.

 

I do look forward to Maleficent just because she of all people can pull both Regina's and Rumps chains.  I love anyone who has a proper response to Regina which is to roll their eyes at her OT ness..and if she, like Ingrid, dismisses Rump as more a means to and end I am good.   I have given up any hope that there will be character growth on this show and it is more  a circle of the latest big bad so just make it fun and let both Regina and Rump get kicked in their assess. They bore me with their back and forth.

 

It does seem that Regina's quest to change fate is going to change things..as we have Cruella cooing that they will win this time. And that must be how Maleficent is alive, her story changes.  I still want to see Cruella and Ursala driving around in her car, laughing at everyone on the street, honking their horn outside of Snow's house to wake her baby, drinking Hook under the Rabbit Hole bar and him waking up in full makeup and no pants. and of course, dumping all their bottles on Regina's lawn and using her Hydrangea for ashtrays.."OHHHHH, you girls make me so mad....why don't you like me????Can we be friends, I know some good prank calls to make to the Charmings."

[Joenigma]

 

Maybe Rumple, Ursula and Cruella help return her to person form

If time-travel is possible, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to perform a resurrection. I can see Cruella and Ursula's first order of business is restoring Maleficent.

 

 

Actually, a Scrooge-like redemption for Rumple I could probably buy.

 

I don't want Rumple redeemed, to me his redemption ended when he died. He is now power obsessed and lets face it, if he can magically take Belle's memories away anytime she sees anything negative about him, he would. My fear is they may down the line try to claim Rumple's new found lust for power and backtack is due to his father's spirit being a part of him or some BS like that.

 

 

Eh, while I dislike what they do with present-day Regina, I'm all for seeing her and Maleficent hanging out together in more evil times.

Me too.

 

I do wonder...Regina traded Rumple's Dark Curse for Maleficent's sleeping curse; what if the 3 "Queens of Darkness" made some edits to it, before Regina took it back.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Joenigma

[The Cake is a Pie]

When Regina tricked Hook into "distracting" zombie Maleficent for her, she mentioned there was a spell on the cave that sustains her "in whatever form." So supposedly Maleficent has been down there all this time alive, but who knows in what shape.

[retrograde]

Kristen Bauer seems to be shooting on location today, anyway.

[HoodlumSheep]

I hope promo.

Speaking of promo...not gonna lie, I'm really hoping that they release another awesome promo poster like they did last year with Evil vs. Wicked. That poster was awesome and got me hyped for 3b (despite how 3b turned out). If there's one (or two) thing(s) I can look fondly back on in 3b, it's the finale and that poster.

Anyways, I'd be cool with Nealfire popping back up to haunt Rumple for a couple scenes, if that's what those tweets are alluding to.

Figured there be some Regina/Mal mixed in there somewhere. I'm fine with seeing some s1 Evil Queen flashbacks, also I wonder if we'll see that adorable unicorn again.

[KingOfHearts]

 

When Regina tricked Hook into "distracting" zombie Maleficent for her, she mentioned there was a spell on the cave that sustains her "in whatever form." So supposedly Maleficent has been down there all this time alive, but who knows in what shape.

 

I wonder what happened to her once Curse 1 got ripped. Maybe she returned to her human form, and she's been hiding out ever since? Or somehow she stayed in phantom form and the other two QoD's want to resurrect her. (That sounds like a plot hole though.)

 

That part of the promo where Anna is bumped back at the town line is probably because Rumple created a containment spell so no one could follow him.

Edited December 10, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/once/gallery5/gallery11/gallery.htm

 

Stills for 411.  They are being incredibly stingy.  Ad I'm also surprised that there's no press (interviews) on this so far.

Edited December 10, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

I'm pretty sure I saw some tweet from a press person asking for Lana questions. Jen is in NYC and Colin in LA, so hopefully the bunch of monkeys who run ABC Publicity have booked them some shows and interviews.

[Souris]

Clearly the action is at the honeymoon house. And not the honeymoon kind of action.

 

I wonder what Hook and Rumple are staring at in that one still? They both look a bit surprised.

[kili]

Stills for 411.  They are being incredibly stingy.

 

All those pictures are in or around Cecil Green Park House (aka Honeymoon House). Interesting that there is no sign of Emma or Belle in those pictures. Charming, Henry, Anna and Kristoff are the ones to confront Hook/Rumple? I wonder what brings them to the house.

[Souris]

We know Emma and Elsa are also at the house at some point, too, from JMo Twitter pics.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Isn't that where the Apprentice's Arendelle door is in the promo? They probably end up there and somehow unhat everyone, which is when the Apprentice makes the door so Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff can return to Arendelle. 

 

It may also be when Cruella and Ursula show up, although I doubt they'd be in the hat since Rumple didn't have it in his possession until very recently. Maybe they come through the door from the other side?

[BoPeeps]

Stingy indeed, but lovely pirate visuals (I am easy)

[InsertWordHere]

And from filming reporst, we know Belle had a scene there with Hook and Rumple, but I don't think any other characters were present. I'm guessing there is a confrontation between Belle and Gold at some point, probably after the Arendelle folks portal out and the Charmings leave, but it could be before. I just want to know where Emma is in all of this!

[YaddaYadda]

I thought it made sense for Rumple to go back to the house where he found the hat to finish the job and cleave himself off the dagger.  The stars on the hat have to align with the stars in the sky so Hook won't die until after the stars are out and someone has to create the door for the Frozen gang to be able to head back home and we know the Apprentice can do that. 

 

I wonder if we find out who it belongs to and who the sorcerer is.  I'm assuming the house will remain in play until at least the end of the season.

[Serena]

But doesn't Robin go away to the EF at some point too? If the door opens in the house and he's not there, how does that happen? Unless the Apprentice can just open doors at will, but then travel between two worlds would become too easy (unless he dies soon after?)