Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[RadioGirl27]

Adam's answer to a fan on twiter.

So, is Jafar coming to OUAT? (yes, please, I love Naveen Andrews) Or is someone else?

Edited November 11, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[FurryFury]

I suppose we'll see the Sorcerer eventually, and in the grand tradition of Adam and Eddy, he'll turn out to be a villain so as to make Regina and Rumple look better in comparison.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FurryFury

[retrograde]

Adam on Twitter:

macbka logutova ‏@macbka_logutova
@AdamHorowitzLA how does SQ's mirror work? Does it tell lies or the harsh truth? Or it distorts ur perception & plays on ur fears? #RAA

 

Adam Horowitz @AdamHorowitzLA
@macbka_logutova it's not lies -- if you watch what's coming it should be clearer

 

Betsy Tarr ‏@Betsypaige24 
@stephanieplatts @AdamHorowitzLA @macbka_logutova If Adam said it's not lies, then it's not lies, and it means Rumbelle is a sham

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA
@Betsypaige24 @stephanieplatts @macbka_logutova no -- it was belle voicing fears that are true fears but not objective truth. Big difference

 

So if the mirror plays on people's fears, will smashing it make everyone turn into the version of themselves they fear? 

[FurryFury]

it was belle voicing fears that are true fears but not objective truth. Big difference

 

How the hell was it not the truth? Do they even watch their own show? Guh!

[retrograde]

Yeah, when he posted the first comment I was like "Wow I can't believe they're finally going there!" The second was a big letdown. 

[Curio]

no -- it was belle voicing fears that are true fears but not objective truth. Big difference

 

What does this sentence even mean? I'm pretty sure every single thing Mirror-Belle said was 100% true. Is it not "objective truth" just because a reflection of Belle - and not an unbiased outside source - was telling it to her? Is it not objective because it happened to be talking about her feelings, which can be subjective?

[YaddaYadda]

it was belle voicing fears that are true fears but not objective truth. Big difference

 

WTF does this mean?  How is it not objective truth when it's the truth?  She stood in front of the mirror and it told her everything we know to be true. 

[FurryFury]

Well, we should have known already that Adam and Eddy are delusional when it comes to their own show. I mean, just look at the way they talk about Regina. Rumbelle also seems to be one of their blind spots.

[sharky]

So it sounds like what you fear -- subjective truth -- and not exactly what is objective truth. That doesn't mean that subjective and objective can't perhaps be both but it means that there is an actual difference. So Hook may look in it and his reflection will tell him, "You're no hero. Emma can never really find a way to love a pirate who has done what you've done." Emma's reflection will sound similar to the DQ, "Your family is scared of you. They don't want the magical version of you." So yes, the mirror may have been the truth with Belle, but that may not always be the case.

Edited November 11, 2014 by sharky

[Mari]

WTF does this mean? How is it not objective truth when it's the truth? She stood in front of the mirror and it told her everything we know to be true.

Yes, it was all true --although I can believe thar A&E don't believe it. It makes the mirror scene seem less like a shout out and more like sarcasm.

However, just because it tells what people honestly fear instead of objective truth doesn't mean it's not the truth. What Belle fears does happen to be true. Emma might fear that she is dangerous and unworthy of love, while that would be an honest fear, it's decidedly not true.

It's a fine line, but it could work. I just wish I had confidence they got that.

ETA. Beaten by sharky.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Mari

[Serena]

However, just because it tells what people honestly fear instead of objective truth doesn't mean it's not the truth. What Belle fears does happen to be true. Emma might fear that she is dangerous and unworthy of love, while that would be an honest fear, it's decidedly not true.

It's a fine line, but it could work. I just wish I had confidence they got that.

ETA. Beaten by sharky.

I love this. I can get behind a mirror that tells the person's darkest fear, and it's not the objective truth because the mirror is not the book, who's just recording what happened. It takes what it says from inside a person's mind, and Belle's darkest thoughts happen to reflect the truth, but Hook and Emma's for example may not.

[Curio]

So yes, the mirror may have been the truth with Belle, but that may not always be the case.

 

Poor Belle. Everyone else's fears would probably be over-exaggerations or not quite entirely true. But with Belle, it's like...no, honey...you actually are pretty pathetic and the Dark One is in fact lying to you.

[YaddaYadda]

I love this. I can get behind a mirror that tells the person's darkest fear, and it's not the objective truth because the mirror is not the book, who's just recording what happened. It takes what it says from inside a person's mind, and Belle's darkest thoughts happen to reflect the truth, but Hook and Emma's for example may not.

 

That's probably the reason they won't be putting Emma or Hook in front of the mirror since they had DQ and Rumple go after those two with much exaggeration with the whole  I know you better than you know yourself.  The mirror also seemed to know Belle better than she knew herself.

[Serena]

Cool. The DQ and Rumple are Emma and Hook's mirror. I don't believe the "they think you're a monster" shit re: Emma's insecurities, but the part about "they see you as the savior, not a daughter, and they only see BDO as their real child" I can believe.

[YaddaYadda]

"they see you as the savior, not a daughter, and they only see BDO as their real child" I can believe.

 

We sort of saw that last season when Snow realized BDO was in danger from Zelena and they needed light magic to defeat her.  We saw it in 3A when Emma was trying to unlock the map and Snow was encouraging her to use the "S" word while conveniently forgetting that Emma had no clue about her Savior status while she was growing up alone and being bounced from foster home to foster home, running away, stealing to survive, getting knocked up and thrown in jail for something she didn't do. 

 

Ok ribbons, being sort of magical because of the sisterly bond and we see Elsa and Emma wearing them, anyone think there's going to be some sort of impact to them because of the "bond"?

[Mathius]

Well, we should have known already that Adam and Eddy are delusional when it comes to their own show. I mean, just look at the way they talk about Regina. Rumbelle also seems to be one of their blind spots.

No, not really. It's just that Rumbellers harass and bully them about the couple all the damn time, and they need to run damage control whenever one of them accuses them of truthfully showing it to be dysfunctional. Rumbellers are viewers, and Adam and Eddy don't want to lose viewers.

[Serena]

Yeah, I don't really think A&E are as delusional about Rumbelle (and Rumple) as they are about Regina. I think they felt kind of forced to add Emilie to the cast after her pilot wasn't picked up after S1. So they give one or two Rumbelle episode every season and a lot of "have hope!" but they're really not that into it. I still remember when Eddy hilariously claimed Rumple and Cora were soulmates.

[KingOfHearts]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/once-upon-time-episode-408-smash-mirror_24.html

 

Press Release for Smash the Mirror states that the Apprentice will be guest starring. Hopefully we'll be getting more information about the hat!

 

 

I love this. I can get behind a mirror that tells the person's darkest fear

Regina: "Sidney, is that you?"
 

Mirror: "Hello Woegina. Were you looking for someone to blame? They all hate you, you know - and rightfully so. You cursed them all, killed hundreds of innocent lives. How can Henry ever respect a mother like that? And that thief from the woods... if he cheated on vanilla, he'll cheat on you. Can your fireballs fix that?"

Edited November 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[oliverwendell]

I wonder who will be looking in the mirror besides Belle?  I hope it's Snow.  She could do with a good scolding from her mirror self. 

 

On another subject, I've been revisiting the question of who will play Anna to Emma's Elsa.  I was thinking it would be Hook, but based on the promo bit where Henry finds Emma in the woods and gets flung backward by her power, I'm now thinking it's going to be him.  And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  He definitely loves her as unconditionally as Anna loves Elsa, and he'd be a big cheerleader for her ability to control her magic, also like Anna.  Plus, accidentally hurting her son with her magic would pack a far greater emotional wallop for Emma than accidentally hurting her new boyfriend.  It would be a much closer parallel to Elsa hurting her sister. 

 

That said, I hope Hook is firmly on the I-love-you-magic-and-all train.  It would be out of character for him not to be.  He's been nothing but an enthusiastic supporter of her and her magic from the beginning, and he doesn't scare easy. 

[YaddaYadda]

Elsa is also there in the preview reaching her hand to Emma.  It's two hours, so they have plenty (hopefully) time to address all of this.  I really hope the show is focused on Emma (hey, another 2 hour for Emma! likely before the drought of 4B)

 

Also, regarding Hook, in 403, when he's in the woods with Elsa, he says something about running away from magic and Elsa replied Emma had magic and he doesn't seem like he wants to run away from her.  So there's that.  Last episode, there was the whole thing with him reaching for Emma twice, before and after the lamp post and then you had Gerda pulling away from Ingrid even though Ingrid was begging her not to...I think he's team Emma regardless of what happens. 

[KAOS Agent]

The writer for the next episode implied on Twitter that we're getting a morning after scene for Outlaw Queen, so we know to look forward to that. That news has just made my day.

[Serena]

The writer for the next episode implied on Twitter that we're getting a morning after scene for Outlaw Queen, so we know to look forward to that. That news has just made my day.

So sweet. I wonder if he'll tell her how everything he knows about sex, he learned from Marian? I mean, they did it for his moral "code", why not everything else?

 

As for Hook, of course he'll be team "Emma should keep her magic". That's what the press release says. And Jennifer in her interviews said Henry is also a very important part of this, so it'll be a team effort with Elsa also being part of it. Of course, Regina, the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD!!, who could ever understand what it's like to have magic according to Emma in 405, will be nowhere to be seen in this plot, because 405 only happened in a weird dimension where nightmares come alive.

[Curio]

The writer for the next episode implied on Twitter that we're getting a morning after scene for Outlaw Queen

 

Is there a direct link to this tweet?

[RadioGirl27]

On another subject, I've been revisiting the question of who will play Anna to Emma's Elsa.  I was thinking it would be Hook, but based on the promo bit where Henry finds Emma in the woods and gets flung backward by her power, I'm now thinking it's going to be him.

 

Yeah, at first I thought it was going to be Hook, but now I'm pretty sure it won't be him, and that makes me sad. I know Henry is her son and loves her, and Elsa understands her because she has been in her shoes. But it makes me mad that all the parallels and the build up we have seen between Hook and Emma this half season are going to end up in nothing, just like the failed TLK or the bonfire conversation between Hook and Charming in the past.

 

The writer for the next episode implied on Twitter that we're getting a morning after scene for Outlaw Queen, so we know to look forward to that. That news has just made my day.

This is disgusting.

Edited November 11, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[regularlyleaded]

Based on interviews and the promo(s) I don't think Henry is the one to help Emma at all (to be the Anna to her Elsa).

 

If anything, Jennifer Morrison's interview posted (waaay) upthread implied (to me) that Henry is the one to push Emma over the edge. She said something along the lines of Henry thinks he's helping but he's not. His pushing her only leads her to lose complete control and makes her fears and the entire situation worse. It seems that her accidentally hurting him because he pushes her to far is what makes her go to Rumple to get rid of her magic.

 

I'm guessing that's the promo scene where Henry's yelling at her that he can help (this kid must think he's freaking Yoda or something, JFC) and he gets his ass blasted back into the nethersphere. (Also, that was hilarious! I'm sooo looking forward to seeing Henry get magically smacked down. It's like part of a great dream coming true for me....the rest of that dream involves him dying, permanently). So I don't see Henry being the one to help.

 

Plus, Emma's insecurities that have triggered her magic to run out of control have very little (if anything) to do with Henry and as the child in that relationship he shouldn't be anywhere near this (IMO). Henry once again is just sticking his big fat nose where it doesn't belong. I'm sure he cares for The Savior (because who else would save his little worthless ass when he gets into trouble all the damn time), but he has no idea of what Emma's going through and he's only going to make things worse.

 

My money is that Elsa or Hook are the ones that talk Emma off the ledge. Seeing as this is the Frozen arc and Elsa is Frozen I'm leaning towards Elsa coming full circle and being the one to talk Emma off the ledge like Anna did for her in the film. Based on the glimpses I've seen in the 4x08 promo it seems that Elsa talks Emma down just as Emma's magic has gone completely out of control.

Edited November 11, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Serena]

 

Is there a direct link to this tweet?

Here.

[stealinghome]

Well, at least I know I can safely miss the first 15 minutes of the episode if getting take-out runs late again, because good God I'm going to want to stab my eyes out during the Outlaw Queen morning after scene. Barf.

 

I'm really just oh so glad that THAT is what the writers chose to do with some of their extra hour.

Edited November 11, 2014 by stealinghome

[YaddaYadda]

regularlyleaded, I laughed through all the Henry parts of your post.  I too got a kick out of watching him get blasted away.  The only person I feel sorry for in this is Emma.  Henry can just go and mind his business.  I miss the day Rumple wanted to kill Henry...*sigh*

 

Would be sort of cool if Elsa and Hook teamed up.  They're friendly, they get along, they care about the same person...

 

OQ having a morning after makes me just...gag, wanna vomit...nothing says I love you like a good rump in the crypt of horrors where people's hearts are kept.  I'm not even sure I can call this pay off for anyone who ships OQ because seriously...an affair is not a pay off.

[ShadowFacts]

 

OQ having a morning after makes me just...gag, wanna vomit...nothing says I love you like a good rump in the crypt of horrors where people's hearts are kept.  I'm not even sure I can call this pay off for anyone who ships OQ because seriously...an affair is not a pay off.

 

Is Lana Parilla pregnant in real life?  Because gods know they retread everything on this show -- pregnant actress/pregnant character again?

[regularlyleaded]

regularlyleaded, I laughed through all the Henry parts of your post.  I too got a kick out of watching him get blasted away.  The only person I feel sorry for in this is Emma.  Henry can just go and mind his business.  I miss the day Rumple wanted to kill Henry...*sigh*

Ah, yes, the good old days when Rumple could've rid us of the Truest Wanker. I miss that. I think it's the first time I wanted Rumple to succeed with one of his schemes.

 

I'm glad someone else enjoyed that part of the 4x08 promo as much as I did. :D As you said, I feel so incredibly bad for Emma in all of this, especially because the last thing she wants to do is hurt Henry (or anyone really), but I'll be damned if seeing him getting his ass handed to him didn't just put the biggest smile on my face. I may have giggled too....I regret nothing.

 

BTW - here is the bit from the EW interview that implied to me that Henry wasn't going to help Emma but make things worse:

Henry, in particular, hopes to keep his mother in check, but may find himself in danger as a result. “She doesn’t want to do anything to cause him pain,” Morrison says. “He’s trying to help her, but in pushing her, she ends up being pushed out of control. The more he pushes, the more he puts himself in danger. It’s a terrible feeling to know that the person you truly love the most in your life in that moment is in the most danger around you. It makes her just want to get rid of her powers entirely. She’d rather not have any powers than have the possibility of hurting Henry or anyone else she cares about.”

 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm glad someone else enjoyed that part of the 4x08 promo as much as I did. :D

Which part of the promo is that in? I couldn't find the scene.

 

Edit: Nevermind, found it. Henry is so annoying. I wish he got blasted with magic every time he tried to "help".

Edited November 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

Here.

I clicked on it, just to see how it was worded--and, wow, was the reaction to it hostile to the idea of Robin/Regina morning after scene.  Some were clearly angry Swan Queen fans, but still . . .

[Emma]

A morning after scene with OQ? Please no. Not enough liquor will erase that image for me.

[Shanna Marie]

Well, looks like I'm not longer too sad about not being able to watch this one live. I'll be able to use the FF button because while I can sing to drown out anything Robin says, I'd also have to shield my eyes from any morning after scene. And since I'll be watching late, I won't be trying to eat at the same time. Ick, gag, blech.

[Serena]

I clicked on it, just to see how it was worded--and, wow, was the reaction to it hostile to the idea of Robin/Regina morning after scene.  Some were clearly angry Swan Queen fans, but still . . .

Yeah, like, I think OQ is gross too, but people on Twitter need to chill. And the reaction is so sexist too, from people who are allegedly feminist! Like, Robin is "defiling" Regina? I'm pretty sure she consented, and her having consensual sex does not "defile" her.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

Is Lana Parilla pregnant in real life? Because gods know they retread everything on this show -- pregnant actress/pregnant character again?

Please, don't say that. Don't even think about it. (Though I have to say I had that terrible idea too).

[Shanna Marie]

I'm pretty sure she consented, and her having consensual sex does not "defile" her.

On the other hand, she's kind of defiling herself by having sex with a married man whose wife is essentially in a coma and on the brink of death. It takes two, and she could have told him she doesn't roll that way.

[Jean]

I think Elsa helps her. In the promo you can see them holding hands before the explosion, in the hat house. But are we sure Rumple really tries to remove her magic? He gives her a potion and you can see her placing her hands on some old paper with ink on it, when we all know he can just use the hat. The DQ would be all in his grill if she thought he was messing with her replacement sisters and their magic. I think he and the DQ are in cahoots for this one and it's a trap for Emma.

 

Personally, I hope Love Tales from the Crypt lasts all episode. It could go on till ep. 11 and that'd be even better. It would keep them from going out and infecting other characters and stories.

[Shanna Marie]

Personally, I hope Love Tales from the Crypt lasts all episode. It could go on till ep. 11 and that'd be even better. It would keep them from going out and infecting other characters and stories.

This would be a good time to seal the crypt from the outside.

[Souris]

Situations like the OQ morning after are exactly why I've started DVRing the show instead of watching live. I watched live the first four eps, but I knew I would need FF ability for 4x05. I'm not watching Once without that ability again.

[YaddaYadda]

Didn't we technically get a morning after for them last season when they were drinking wine in front of the fire place?  That's what I assumed that was.

 

Also regarding the promo, the mark on the paper, I think it's Emma's hand that makes the mark because of her magic.  And why would Rumple take her to that house?  I have to say that the promo has a rather creepy vibe to it?  Just me?

[Minneapple]

They're having a morning after scene with Regina and Robin? Well I'll be sure to send the writers the bill after the PROJECTILE VOMIT lands on my TV screen! Actually never mind. I'm definitely fast forwarding this one. This is why God created the DVR.

Goddamn, as if Robin couldn't be horrible enough. His wife's not even dead and does he even care where his child is while he's spending the night with Regina?

Edited November 11, 2014 by Minneapple

[regularlyleaded]

This would be a good time to seal the crypt from the outside.

I just totally imagined Grumpy and Granny rolling up to the crypt with a cement truck, jumping out, placing the spout directly into the crypt entrance and letting the truck empty it's entire load of cement inside that crypt.

 

"Honest, Snow, we didn't know anyone was down there!"

Edited November 11, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Shanna Marie]

Didn't we technically get a morning after for them last season when they were drinking wine in front of the fire place?  That's what I assumed that was.

That one didn't strike me as very "morning after." More like "afternoon before." But the bit where they were making out in the hallway at Granny's (where their stalker took their picture that Regina has framed) struck me as rather morning-aftery -- like they'd kissed in the woods, then got a room at Granny's (the one she seemed to have on hold for her trysts with Graham?) for the main event. Their conversation then was very "what was it like for you?"

 

I have to say that the promo has a rather creepy vibe to it?  Just me?

Anything with Rumple is inherently creepy. I just can't make heads or tails of the promo. I guess I need to find it online and try watching frame-by-frame, or something (anyone have a good link?). It seems to jump around a lot, and it doesn't help that half the cast now is a dark-haired man in a short leather jacket, so in those split-second shots it's hard to tell if someone is David, Hook or Will (yeah, David's hair is lighter and Will's is much shorter, but in some lighting and angles it's hard to tell in such short cuts). When Henry gets a bit taller, I hope he doesn't get a leather jacket or I'll never be able to tell who's who in a promo.

[retrograde]

Lame spoiler from TV Guide:
 

Any scoop on Sunday's two-hour episode of Once Upon a Time? — Deirdre
Here's a tidbit: "Elsa and Anna get to work together back in Arendelle," Elizabeth Lail reveals. "So we get to see the two sisters become a team and formulate a plan." That's definitely bad news for the Snow Queen, who will learn that her plan to pit Elsa against Anna won't be easy.

 

Surprised they still haven't released promo photos for this week. 

[Jean]

How did Anna get out of the jail DQ put her in?

Wow the good guys actually have a plan? Ok who locked up A&E and their staff? Granted the plan failed big time since Elsa ended up in an urn and Anna ended up in a chest but I'll take anything at this point. I bet the plan involves them fake fighting as we saw in the promo.

I guess things won't start moving in the present till Anna gets to Storybrooke. She's going to be the one that blow things sky high for Rumple isn't she?

[allyj128]

We sort of saw that last season when Snow realized BDO was in danger from Zelena and they needed light magic to defeat her.  

 

I've seen this abbreviation before but don't know what it means (I miss TWOP!). What does BDO mean?

[YaddaYadda]

BDO = baby do over.

[sharky]

Ha! I've been here all the time and didn't know what it was either. I just assumed it was Baby Dark One all this time. I mean seriously, the poor kid's name is Neal!

I'm really hoping the vagueness of the writer's Twitter answer means there's a morning after for someone other than OQ. I mean how can OQ get a morning after when Captain Hook hasn't even gone past first base? (At least not with Emma.) I'm really hoping that it's a sign that CS is true love and OQ isn't but I doubt that's what is happening.

[YaddaYadda]

The way I figure is the show is 2 hours, morning after has to happen within the first hour if it's going to be the morning after.  Second hour, 9 to 10 is basically fair game.  This is how I make myself delusional over things I don't wanna see.