Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Jean]

I'm a Frozen fan and I could have written a better press release than that. I wasn't aware that being a fan of Frozen could negatively impact one's writing skills.

Read it again.

Maybe they let a Frozen fan, whose in the single digit age

I just meant a huge chunk of Frozen fans are little kids who haven't learned all the grammatical rules yet. But maybe they have. My apologies, I didn't realize kids 9 and under could register and post on this board and may take offense, if that's the case.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Hmm, those words weren't there when I first read it. Maybe my eyesight or memory is slipping in my old age.

[retrograde]

More 4.06 photos seem to have appeared since I first linked to them. In one, DQ is holding the sorcerers hat box (also her dress there is awesome).

[Emma]

This is an odd, interesting detail:

Interesting. Before Neal? After?

I assume she was filming in another location and not SB.

They're piling on the flashbacks for Emma. I'm thrilled and terrified at the same time.

[kili]

More 4.06 photos seem to have appeared since I first linked to them

 LOL. I'm pretty sure that the Shopkeeper from Frozen, Oaken, is in one of those pictures.

 

I've been googling star birth marks...Launcelot had one according to "The Champions of the Round Table". Obviously, Lily is not Launcelot (because we've met him and Cora killed him), but perhaps she is meant to be a Launcelot type character?

Edited October 28, 2014 by kili

[Mari]

They're piling on the flashbacks for Emma. I'm thrilled and terrified at the same time.

I'm mostly terrified.  I figure the Regina/Emma episode is over, so they probably won't have an hour Emma getting yelled at.  They'll have to go another route; Emma magically killed puppies.  Cute puppies--not the little hairless rat-looking things. 

[Souris]

More 4.06 photos seem to have appeared since I first linked to them. In one, DQ is holding the sorcerers hat box (also her dress there is awesome).

 

I noticed that about the box! I wonder what's up with that. Also, something about the pics makes it looks like she's spying on Anna and Kristoff kissing.

[Rumsy4]

Rumple takes revenge on anyone who tries to control him. What will he do to Belle "commanding" him to find the Snow Queen?

I think Lily was a one-off chacter, and the star was probably just a reference to Neverland. It probably led to Emma getting the buttercup tattoo. Maybe we'll get to see that in the DQ/young Emma flashback.

I bet JMo is dressed as young Emma to make it less icky when she runs away from foster care/DQ, and meets Jailfire.

[YaddaYadda]

She probably stole it from Anna. She has zero interest in Anna. I'm thinking she's the one who locks her away. How far will she go to get that box back?

[HeimrArnadalr]

Yes, that is Oaken.

Movie screenshot to compare

 

The costume isn't exact, but it's close enough.

[InsertWordHere]

I've just had a terrible thought. Is it possible that they are taking the trouble to explicitly make Emma and Regina "friends" so that when Regina's first "friend" Maleficent comes back, we'll get some sort of friendship triangle between the three? I know, I know, any Maleficent done correctly would be ready to breathe fire on Regina, but this is OUaT we're talking about here.

[snarkastic]

I've just had a terrible thought. Is it possible that they are taking the trouble to explicitly make Emma and Regina "friends" so that when Regina's first "friend" Maleficent comes back, we'll get some sort of friendship triangle between the three? I know, I know, any Maleficent done correctly would be ready to breathe fire on Regina, but this is OUaT we're talking about here.

 

Shut your mouth. Why would you put that thought out into the world. If they weren't going to before, they certainly will now.

 

But, no, my worst fear is that Maleficent isn't the real bad guy in 4b, but whatever Aurora/Mulan did to resurrect Phillip coming back to bite them in the arse. And everyone can team up with good guy Mal to defeat the horrible, horrible villain original recipe Sleeping Beauty.

[Serena]

I think a storyline where Mulan and SB did something to resurrect Philip and it had bad consequences... pretty much sounds like Neal 2.0, but Maleficient sounded like a rational enough person in S1, so I wouldn't mind if she isn't a 100% villain.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Serena

[Amerilla]

This isn't really a spoiler-y one, I just couldn't figure out which thread it would better go in: Ginny was saying in an interview that they use 8 different babies for Snowflake. And that she's exhausted.

http://extratv.com/2014/10/25/once-upon-a-time-star-ginnifer-goodwin-on-being-a-new-mom-on-and-off-screen/

(Duh, the Media thread. Will move once I get to my computer. )

Edited October 28, 2014 by Amerilla

[Serena]

Yeah, I'm one of those people who can't tell babies apart. Sorry Ginny.

 

Anyway, thinking about the possibility of Belle using the dagger to control Rumple. I feel like it has the potential to be super hilarious (for me) for the following reasons:

1) Rumple being all morally righteous about it. Fab.

2) Rumple having to go along with it because otherwise he loses his false moral superiority (I hope she tells him to make noises like a chicken).

3) Belle becoming almost as bad as Rumple by enslaving her husband. No, as bad as Zelena! 

4) Belle showing her hypocrisy because she uses the dagger only now, when she decides she wants a little adventure, but when Rumple was refusing to help Emma who was freezing to death she was like whatever.

 

I. can't. wait. 

[margol29]

Too many memory wipes.

Do you mean because of the name Lily, as in Lily Potter? Or are you thinking the star is a mark she was left with after some sort of magical encounter, like what happened to Harry? I think it's the latter, but there were very few known magical beings who were able to travel to our world at that time. There's only DQ, Pan, and the Dragon (sounds like a band), as far as I recall. Other options would be the writer of the book, the person who told August about the dagger (I still think it was Blue despite what the showrunners have said), or possibly the Sorcerer. Or possibly those are all the same person.

I was thinking about Lilly Potter, but your point about magic leaving the star as a scar is good too. I guess we will have to wait and see if it is brought up again.

[RadioGirl27]

At first, I thought Lily was Tiger Lily and the star was a Neverland reference. But Hook didn't recognize her, so I don't know. It would have been too much for a single scene, first him recognizing Lily and then they seeing the Snow Queen as Emma's foster mom.

[Jean]

Bringing this over from the villains thread: I think the DQ definitely has a bigger goal in mind than just the sob story of getting a "family." I think the word family is a bit of a misdirect itself combined with the blatant Elsa/Emma family connection. They want us to think that all she wants is their love or something equally sappy.

But that prophecy scroll with the word family in it makes me think that, that's the context she was talking about to the mirror. And the way the scroll uses it, I don't think is the same definition as say Snow's. She's awfully interested in developing both Emma and Elsa's powers so I think those 2 are the last links to unlocking whatever goal she has in mind that's been foretold. I'm guessing it has something to do with the hat and Rumple's clueless on that part.

And I think Rumple either inadvertently clued her in to the savior=Emma part or maybe it was the other way around and DQ gave Rumple the piece he needed.

[retrograde]

So take this with a massive grain of salt, but I saw this floating around today on tumblr. There is no way to back it up, but at the same time, the person (based on their blog) and the claim don't raise too many red flags for me (Castro has been pretty loose-lipped with the spoilers before) so it seemed plausible enough to at least share:

 

So, a girl I know on FB is followed back by Eduardo Castro.  He commented to her today about how there are THREE female villains all in 4B, and that Maleficent is a whole re-design.

 

 

It definitely seems like DQ is sticking around after the Frozen folk leave for at least a little longer. So who could the third be?

[RadioGirl27]

I always take this "I know someone who knows someone" with a grain of salt (let's not forget the "Hook is a prince" stuff). But knowing this writers, Maleficent is a poor misunderstood woman who was wronged by Flora, Fauna and the third fairy from Sleeping Beauty.

Edited October 29, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[InsertWordHere]

By redesign, they just mean costuming, right? So are they going to try to make her look more like both the animated and Angelina Jolie Maleficents? I kind of liked her purple punk look.

 

As for the other two female villains, all I can think of are Rumple's two guardians, but they actually seemed kind of nice. There's Morgana if they want to get into the Arthurian stuff. Or possibly the third sister to DQ and Elsa's Mom. If time is somehow altered or the book is altered that would make way for some of the past female villains to return.

 

Oooh, could the Sorcerer be a woman? Did the apprentice ever use any pronouns or did he just refer to the person as "my master?" Someone will probably go into that hat at the end of 4A.

[kili]

Oooh, could the Sorcerer be a woman? Did the apprentice ever use any pronouns or did he just refer to the person as "my master?"

 

The Apprentice uses the male pronoun multiple times in his exchange with Zoso. For instance, Zoso states "You are not the sorcerer" and the Apprentice responds "No, I am his apprentice". It could be a misdirect.

[InsertWordHere]

Thanks, I couldn't remember. Too bad, that would have been a nice gender switch. Probably not likely though since the Sorcerer in Fantasia was modeled after Walt Disney.

[YaddaYadda]

Three villains?  Now that's interesting!  I'm assuming it will carry over to S5 because there will never be enough time to address 3 villains (or 2 if DQ is indeed one) in 11 shows.  I guess 3 villains is DQ finding that "family" she's looking for. 

 

I'm curious to see how they will be sending the Frozen3 back to where they came from.  They need a portal for that. 

Also, is Hans still alive after being turned into an iceberg, because I had a thought about that while rewatching clips of 403.

[RadioGirl27]

We all now the three villians are going to be Emma, Snow and Aurora because they have ruined Regina's and Maleficent's lifes.

Seriously now, I would take this with a grain of salt. It's a comment, without a link, in someones Facebook.

[YaddaYadda]

I've actually been wondering if DQ won't try to mirror shard both Emma and Elsa to get them on her side.

 

Obviously, anything on the internet has to be taken with a grain of salt, but I really love the idea of a multiple villain arc. 

[Anakerie]

You just know that all three of them are going to end up related to Henry somehow.  I hope the kid plans on being celibate his entire life, because he's going to have a hard time getting laid when he's related to everyone in the world.

[Emma]

I like the idea of 3 villains but no way these writers could pull it off. Too many characters and scenes get lost in the shuffle as it is.

[Curio]

I like the idea of 3 villains but no way these writers could pull it off.

I don't have much faith, either. See: Season 2B.

[Serena]

Weren't people on Twitter saying they would be filming in Steveston today?

[ShadowFacts]

If the 3 villain spoiler is true, maybe one of them is an accomplice like Sidney, if he is even slated to be in more episodes.

[kili]

The magic hat is meant to siphon off magic (by trapping magical beings in the hat?). The DQ mirror is an amalgamation of soul essences - the dark magic in Regina's compact being essential.

 

Is the mirror something like the hat? It combines a lot of magic to make the wielder more powerful? Or has the DQ been collecting mirror bits from the important inhabitants of Storybrooke so she can somehow control them through their souls? Or is Regina's dark magic meant to pollute the mirror so that when it is smashed (408 is "Smash the Mirror" and it is the double episode) the other souls in the mirror are dark as well?

 

Nice to know that Regina is still so dark (despite being the whitest light magicker ever three days ago in show time) that the essence of her dark magic is critical to the DQ's success.

[YaddaYadda]

I like the idea of 3 villains but no way these writers could pull it off.

 

That's the thing, right?  If they are really having three villains, then they can't do it in half a season, they need a hell of a lot longer to "flesh" out whatever.  I mean a villain usually requires to have their sob story told in about 3 episodes, so that's already 6 episodes gone of the villains crying about their terrible childhood and how horrible mommy or daddy were.  You know Daddy is a drunk (see Zelena's father and Malcolm) and Mommy is likely a power hungry biatch using her child as a means to an end (see Cora).  In the case of DQ, I presume her sisters were bitchy and mean because she was different. 

 

So that leaves 5 episodes of Regina crying before the season is over.

 

Also, I still don't understand the hat at all.  In the stills we see DQ has it and in the preview, Rumple is putting it in his vault and I'm wondering if the reason Belle decides to use the dagger on her I TRUSTED YOU husband (God, I'm expecting myself to just lol at this when I see the actual scene in the show.  Too much unintentional comedy with that line) is because she sees the box that contains the hat and remembers Anna had it and DQ stole it or took it from her. 

[sharky]

If we're going with this three villain s spoiler, what's to say that one of them is someone we already know? I could easily see things collapsing for Gold at the end of 4A and have him going all evil without Belle. So then we would have Maleficent, DQ and Gold. At least it would be fun to have Gold back in evil mode.

Also, was the Angelina Jolie movie a Disney film? I think it was and while not as big as Frozen, I wonder if Disney is going to continue to keep a hand in some of that storytelling like they did with this first half. I actually think it's been good to have some control over Ada and Eddy from the mother ship.

[SzmuttyPratfall]

If we're going with this three villain s spoiler, what's to say that one of them is someone we already know? I could easily see things collapsing for Gold at the end of 4A and have him going all evil without Belle. So then we would have Maleficent, DQ and Gold. At least it would be fun to have Gold back in evil mode.

Also, was the Angelina Jolie movie a Disney film? I think it was and while not as big as Frozen, I wonder if Disney is going to continue to keep a hand in some of that storytelling like they did with this first half. I actually think it's been good to have some control over Ada and Eddy from the mother ship.

A&E claimed they needed to jump through a lot of hoops to do Frozen, so I don't think they were gonna do that again for a film maleficent arc. I think it may just be as simple as they needed Kristen Bauer Van Straten around for a longer period of time and True Blood is now over.

[InsertWordHere]

Yes, the Jolie movie was Disney. I believe "Maleficent" is the Disney version of the dark fairy in Sleeping Beauty, so any use of that name has to be with Disney's approval. ETA: Not that I think they will keep a tight leash on A&E's use of the character, I was just clarifying that "Maleficent" is purely Disney.

 

To add another female villain to the spec, there is always still Ursula, and she would fit with a Regina-heavy 4B.

Edited October 29, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[KingOfHearts]

 

If we're going with this three villain s spoiler, what's to say that one of them is someone we already know?

Zelena, Pan and Maleficent are back from pseudo-death, and they're ticked. (But really, a villain posse collectively wanting revenge on the same people would be cool. Rumple and Regina would be in really, really big trouble.)

 

I don't think Disney cares any more about what they do to Maleficent than the Evil Queen or Peter Pan. She's been on the show already anyway, so it's not like they're going to have to win the hearts of the execs to get her back on.

 

 

As for the other 2 female villains, we might not know the characters but if went through ex-Lost cast members who are unemployed I bet we'd know who will be playing them.

Ana Lucia as Henry Sr.'s love child before he met Cora? /sarcasm

Edited October 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

I hope the DQ is gone after 4A. Permanently. I don't even want her in flashbacks. I love her and don't want her ruined by these bozos, see Cora. And since she won't strictly affect Elsa/Anna anymore after they're gone, I doubt Disney would give a flip which means even more ruination.

 

 

I wonder if Disney is going to continue to keep a hand in some of that storytelling like they did with this first half.

I doubt it. Can you imagine how exhausting that must be for them to play watchdogs to A&E? There's already the animation version which is old enough for them to reimagine it any way they want to and Sleeping Beauty/Maleficent isn't solely identified as being Disney. Elsa/Anna are strictly Disney's property and seen as such, even if the original Snow Queen was the inspiration behind it.

 

Maybe they need 3 villains because Kristin doesn't want to commit to a full-time 11 episode arc. With the workload they give the villain of the moment she wouldn't have flexibility to do anything else and with pilot season coming, I wouldn't give up the possiblity for a new full-time job just for a guest starring gig.

 

As for the other 2 female villains, we might not know the characters but if went through ex-Lost cast members who are unemployed I bet we'd know who will be playing them.

[Amerilla]

As for the other 2 female villains, we might not know the characters but if went through ex-Lost cast members who are unemployed I bet we'd know who will be playing them.

Evangeline Lilly. And Terry O'Quinn in drag. That would make me happy.

[Emma]

No matter what villain or actor they bring in to play them, it's hard for me to get excited knowing 4B is Regina heavy.

[RadioGirl27]

 

Evangeline Lilly. And Terry O'Quinn in drag. That would make me happy.

Actually, Terry O'Quinn playing a villian in this show would make me immensely happy. I would even tolerate the sobbing backstory.

 

I don't think this writers can pull off a three villians storyline and make it compelling. But I've been thinking about this, and maybe at the end of this half season the hat is destroyed and all the magical beings that were trapped there are freed, among them some really bad girls (Morgana, Maleficent, the Black Fairy, Ursula...) and that's why we have three villians.

[NotBothered]

If we're going with this three villain s spoiler, what's to say that one of them is someone we already know? I could easily see things collapsing for Gold at the end of 4A and have him going all evil without Belle. So then we would have Maleficent, DQ and Gold. At least it would be fun to have Gold back in evil mode.

This was my first thought as well.  I think someone we know is going to go bad.  Either someone backsliding or being infected with mirror shards.  I actually kind of like the idea of there being lingering affects from the DQ, even if she is not still around.

 

Depending on whether we get anymore filming spoilers, I wouldn't be surprised if Hook goes bad.  We've been talking and talking about how Emma needs to be the one chasing him and having faith in him. Having him get sharded or somehow overwhelmed by something hat related gives them a chance to dial back the on the woobification, and have a big TLK in the finale.  We also not he has a connection to Malificent, so that would fit as well.  Yes, it is all very Angelus, but these writers are not exactly known for their originality. 

[RadioGirl27]

 

Depending on whether we get anymore filming spoilers, I wouldn't be surprised if Hook goes bad.  We've been talking and talking about how Emma needs to be the one chasing him and having faith in him. Having him get sharded or somehow overwhelmed by something hat related gives them a chance to dial back the on the woobification, and have a big TLK in the finale.  We also not he has a connection to Malificent, so that would fit as well.  Yes, it is all very Angelus, but these writers are not exactly known for their originality.

I've thought about this too, and some spoilers seem to point there. We are getting more of Hook's backstory in 4B and Adam (or Eddy) said that this season Emma is going to fight for Hook the way he has fought for her. The only thing that makes me doubt it's the fact that we know 4B is going to be all about Regina, so I don't see how they can fit this storyline in the five minutes per episode at most that Emma and Hook are going to have in 4B.

Edited October 29, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Castro said three FEMALE villains, though, so I don't think he could be talking about Gold, Hook or even Terry O'Quinn in drag ;). One will be Maleficent. I suspect the other two will come out of the hat.

[kili]

But I've been thinking about this, and maybe at the end of this half season the hat is destroyed and all the magical beings that were trapped there are freed, among them some really bad girls (Morgana, Maleficent, the Black Fairy, Ursula...) and that's why we have three villians.

 

Bonus! Since it is likely that our heros will foil the hat plan, everybody in town can be mad at the heros for infesting the town with villains. The heros can apologize repeatedly and Regina can give lots of lectures about consequences. You just know Adam and Eddie would love that.

 

Ursula was thought long dead. Maybe she is in the hat.

 

Having him get sharded or somehow overwhelmed by something hat related gives them a chance to dial back the on the woobification, and have a big TLK in the finale

 

I think three sub-seasons in a row of Hook getting some part of his body cursed might be a little too much for me.

Edited October 29, 2014 by kili

[NotBothered]

Castro said three FEMALE villains, though, so I don't think he could be talking about Gold, Hook or even Terry O'Quinn in drag ;). One will be Maleficent. I suspect the other two will come out of the hat.

I should remove "detail oriented" from my resume...

[Curio]

The only thing that makes me doubt it's the fact that we know 4B is going to be all about Regina

 

Do we actually have confirmation of this? Or is this just speculation based on the trends of the past couple seasons?

[YaddaYadda]

Do we actually have confirmation of this? Or is this just speculation based on the trends of the past couple seasons?

 

A sprinkle of this and a sprinkle of that.  4A is Regina light.  Maleficent used to be Regina's friend before Regina effed her over...

[InsertWordHere]

Ursula was thought long dead. Maybe she is in the hat.

Ooh, good thought! Since the hat existed seemingly long before Zoso, they have well over 300 years to work with. Maybe they will expand on the characters whose stories took place in the large time gap between Rumple's era and Snow's. Ursula would be a good possibility for magical being inside the hat, but how did she get out to talk to Regina through her statue? The problem is, who else is left from the pre-Snow time period? Hook's dad, who is possibly Davey Jones? I so wish they hadn't introduced Lancelot. Having the Arthurian legend be an actual legend that Snow, Charming etc grew up with would have added some much needed depth to their worldbuilding and Merlin could be either the Sorcerer or a victim of the hat.

[YaddaYadda]

Aren't we supposed to find out who Hook got the magic bean from in exchange for the Jolly Roger?  This could fit in as well.  He didn't get the bean from the Enchanted Forest, he got it once he outran the curse on his ship.  Someone could just show up via portal as well.