Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Belle gives the Dagger to Hook? Can he really be trusted with something like that...? Wouldn't he just kill him to do the town a favor?

Edited December 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Emma]

Hmm. Not a big fan of Hook having the dagger. If that's what is going on.

[Souris]

That's a weird development. Guess Rumple didn't cleave himself from it after all. Or he did and it's just a twisted memento of that wacky time Rumple had his heart. "Here, thought you might like this!"

 

Why give it to Hook? Why not Emma, who could do something magical to keep it locked up if it still controls Rumple?

 

I hope Hook doesn't do a tit-for-tat, "Let's see how you like being controlled by em" thing. Unless they use it to show that Hook is a better man now and won't use it for revenge.

 

Or I saw speculation that in all the hat drama, Hook somehow becomes the Dark One. I don't know how that would work, since Rumple isn't dead. And, ugh. And, anyway, couldn't a TLK with Emma de-curse him of that?

Edited December 12, 2014 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

Hmm. Not a big fan of Hook having the dagger. If that's what is going on.

 

It makes absolutely no sense that Belle would give Hook the dagger.  I'd think she would give it to Emma for safekeeping or someone like that.  I thought the fake vs real dagger business would be resolved this coming episode.

[Souris]

Pic of Hook and I assume Belle scene. They look like they're in some sort of waste area. Maybe they're burying/destroying the dagger?

 

ETA: Another pic. Apparently she gives him the dagger and drives off. She's washing her hands of the whole Rumple business?

Edited December 12, 2014 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

This is great.  This episode is set for when 3rd week of March?  

 

Can the dagger even be destroyed?  And why is she trusting Hook all of a sudden?  When did they becomes such good friends?  I'm sure Rumple is loving this!  

[FabulousTater]

Could it be that Belle is the one that discovers Rumple's plans and puts a stop to it in the mid-season finale, and she also gets Hook his heart back but makes him promise to tell no one about what Rumple had been up to?? Like, if Hook doesn't tell about Rumple being all Dark One evil, Belle won't tell Emma about what Hook did (before he had his heart stolen)? So basically they wrap up the hat and heart situation with the only players being Rumple, Hook, and Belle and no one is the wiser? It would be OOC for Belle to blackmail someone (though there's no love lost between Belle and Hook, so maybe she's all for blackmail in this case), but I wouldn't be opposed to Belle turning the tables on Rumple. It's not like Rumple doesn't have it coming to him...

 

I don't know, but I can't think of another reason why Hook and Belle would be meeting in the middle of nowhere and Belle would be giving the dagger to Hook unless they are the only ones that know Rumple has gone full on Evil Dark One.

Edited December 12, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Emma]

The last thing Hook needs to do is continue to keep secrets from Emma.

[Curio]

It makes absolutely no sense that Belle would give Hook the dagger.

It makes sense if she's trying to make sure Rumple will never try to kill Hook again. Obviously, the best option would probably be to give it to Emma, but I don't think her savior magic is powerful enough yet to hide or destroy something that dark and powerful. And even if Emma was in charge of the dagger, Rumple is notorious for finding loopholes. If Emma demands that Rumple can't kill Hook, he'd just torture him instead. If Emma demands he can't hurt Hook, he'd just poof him off into another realm on a soft pillow with no way to portal back. At least if the dagger is with Hook, that's probably his best shot at staying alive and not worrying about looking over his should the rest of his life.

 

Giving Hook the dagger could also be Belle trying the best way she can to apologize for her husband's behavior. Kind of like a "sorry my husband tore out your heart, forced you to do awful things, and then tried to kill you. I know I said your heart was rotten in the past, but I trust you now, so please - take this" sort of thing.

 

And then we'll get the inevitable parallel between Hook debating whether or not he should use the dagger to exact revenge or be the bigger man and do nothing with it, with Regina's should-I-be-a-villain-or-should-I-be-a-hero waffling. 

[YaddaYadda]

Hopefully he learned his lesson about lying to Emma.

 

So basically they wrap up the hat and heart situation with the only players being Rumple, Hook, and Belle and no one is the wiser?

 

 

There was an article last week where JMO said Emma would be clued in on the heart situation and help get it back.

[BoPeeps]

SO, perhaps she has found out that Rumple has blatantly lied, used and disrespected her,  gets phenomenally pissed, besides being hurt to the soul, gets the real dagger, finds Hook and tells him to summon the Dark One, and get his heart back. She is totally done with Rumple and delivering him into the hands of his enemy. The spoilers about two couples have suggested a major change/trauma for them and there can't be much more traumatic change than her falling totally out of love with Rumple and setting him on a path to being controlled by Hook.

[FabulousTater]

The last thing Hook needs to do is continue to keep secrets from Emma.

 

I agree, but I'm trying to imagine how the writers of this show would play this out. So, I'm trying to fit the spoiler about Belle (apparently) giving Hook the dagger in with how the writers would end the heart and sorcerer's hat storyline in a way that they would totally write it, but that at the same time I would totally hate (because if I think it's a horrible idea, then it's pretty likely that it's what the show will do). That's why I came up with no one outside of Belle ever learns about what Rumple has been up to with the hat and Hook's heart, and that's why Belle has no choice but to give Hook the dagger now.

 

ETA: 

There was an article last week where JMO said Emma would be clued in on the heart situation and help get it back.

Not that I think she's lying (on the contrary, I think JMo is probably one of the more forthright cast members, aside from Robert "I have no spoiler fucks to give" Carlyle), but you'll excuse me if I only believe that when I see it. ;-)

Edited December 12, 2014 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

Not that I think she's lying (on the contrary, I think JMo is probably one of the more forthright cast members, aside from Robert "I have no spoiler fucks to give" Carlyle), but you'll excuse me if I only believe that when I see it. ;-)

 

And that's fair enough ;)

 

Am I the only one who thinks I'll be screaming obscenities at my television by the time the show is over on Sunday?  

[HoodlumSheep]

I feel like my heart is going to burst with sunshine and rainbows due to these Captain Beauty spoilers. :') it's a guilty pleasure brotp of mine. After the finale this Sunday, these spoilers will probably make a little more sense.

At least 4b will be interesting (good or bad, I don't know).

If Killy gets the real dagger, I hope he makes Rumple wear grubby clothing, or give all the items from his shop back to their rightful owners. Or is that considered too evil?

[sharky]

I leave to spend some time with my family , come back, and Hook has the dagger. What the hell?

I'm wondering about how connected Belle is to Gold at this point frankly. We've seen photos of her with Hook and Hook and Emma but not with Gold. It makes me wonder if Gold gets banished without her and comes rolling back into town with Rumple's Angels to avenge his heartbreak at the hands of his estranged wife. And so to protect herself, she gives the dagger to Hook so he could hide it for her. It would be nice to see Emma and Hook working as a team with Belle as their secret spy.

[YaddaYadda]

It would be nice to see Emma and Hook working as a team with Belle as their secret spy.

 

 

Maybe Belle tells him she's taking him back to get info on what's going on with the new crazy in town.  That would be kinda cool actually.  Hook is like the last person anyone would give the dagger to because well history and bad blood.

 

Then again, Hook had a pretty good grasp on what was going on and chose to not share the information initially.  He needs to remember he's not ship captain where the decisions fall to him and that he can't just make said decisions on his own without consulting those around him especially when it comes to the safety of the town.  That's one thing he needs to work on.

[pezgirl7]

I do not like this dagger spoiler at all. I don't want Hook to even touch the damn thing. I think he probably has his heart back by then, but I wonder what trumps what? Does giving commands with the dagger trump giving giving commands to someone's heart?

I also just read a spoiler that a drunk Will kisses Belle. Is that guy ever sober?

http://hookier.tumblr.com/post/104973115044/about-belle-will-kiss-in-4b

More photos of CaptainSwan filming:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahmulligan/sets/72157645732604205/with/15379236234/

Is it just me, or is Emma starting to dress like Hook?

Edited December 12, 2014 by pezgirl7

[InsertWordHere]

Could that burning ruin be caused by a dragon?

[Curio]

I'm wondering about how connected Belle is to Gold at this point frankly.

I hope Belle is at the blocked-number/refusing-to-answer-calls/I'm-ignoring-your-existence stage. I also hope Belle is giving Hook the real dagger and not the fake, just because it'd be such sweet irony that his character - who searched hundreds of years for a way to kill Rumple and find this dagger - finally has it in his control now that he's a "good guy."

 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm totally digging this dagger reveal. We could get a flashback to revenge-driven Hook on a mission to find the dagger in the past and compare it to his personality in the present and how much he's changed. We could dig deeper into the dagger mythology and figure out if there are any rules about how to permanently destroy it and what those repercussions are. The only thing I don't want to happen is for this to be like Zelena all over again... nobody wants that.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Curio

[HoodlumSheep]

If A&E ruin Scarlet Queen...I will rage. Someone's going to get a tweet with a big frowny face on it (because that's as mean as I'll go) if that happens. Then I'll go punch some pillows. Rumbellers will be out for blood.

RIP Scarlet Queen, 'cause Will's a dead man if Rumple finds out.

[KingOfHearts]

Hook having the dagger is a neat idea, but I don't think he's at the stage where he won't abuse it. And, if by some chance Rumple gets control back, he'll surely kill Hook the first chance he'll get. I don't understand why Belle would trust him with it... since he tried to kill her twice.

 

Those things aside, I love the irony and the comeuppance for Rumple.

 

 

If A&E ruin Scarlet Queen...I will rage.

I will too. They should bring Ana to Storybrooke already... though I'm not sure who would be ruling Wonderland in her place. Cyrus and Alice?

Edited December 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

RIP Scarlet Queen, 'cause Will's a dead man if Rumple finds out.

 

That's one way to get rid of a character they clearly don't know what to do with. What's the point in bringing Will into the mother show, only to make him so pointless? And it doesn't look like he has much to do in 4B so far, either... So, they have him getting drunk and doing random stuff. 

[Souris]

BTS pic of the Evil Trio and Snow.

 

Merrin seems like she is going to be a fount of BTS info.

[retrograde]

Meh. I can't get annoyed by the dagger thing without knowing more. Between now and that episode, TPTB will probably have invented some entirely new thing the dagger does/is needed for. I doubt Belle's handing it to him like, "I'm sick of this, you want?" anyway. 

 

I do think Belle probably plays a part in foiling Rumple's plan in 4.12, though, and it does seem like she and Hook are now on amicable terms. Given he has been sticking up for her quite a bit in discussions with Rumple, I think it's possible he goes out of his way to let her know what's going on even when he thinks he's going to die. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Hook having the dagger is a neat idea, but I don't think he's at the stage where he won't abuse it. And, if by some chance Rumple gets control back, he'll surely kill Hook the first chance he'll get. I don't understand why Belle would trust him with it... since he tried to kill her twice.

Those things aside, I love the irony and the comeuppance for Rumple.

I will too. They should bring Ana to Storybrooke already... though I'm not sure who would be ruling Wonderland in her place. Cyrus and Alice?

I imagine Cylice visited on occasion, but I'll go with Tweedle managing the place (the nice one, I can't remember the fate of the other one).

Edited December 12, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[retrograde]

TV Guide interview with Lana Parrilla. I think this is the only spoilery stuff:

Will Operation Mongoose be in full effect going forward? That was back-burnered a bit in the first half of the season.

Lana Parrilla: I think that was intentional. The Author is a very important character, this person or thing or whatever it is, is responsible for everyone's fate. This for Regina has become her No. 1 priority. She is so focused on figuring out who this author is because once she gets ahold of this author, then everything can fall into place for her. Or at least that's how she is hoping it will turn out. And working with Henry (Jared Gilmore) is so fun for her. She loves having this bond with her son. It's not just a mother-son relationship any longer; they're friends. There are no secrets between them, and that's new for Regina. She was always manipulating and hiding something. And now all cards are out on the table. She's so forthright with him. She wants that trust. Also, Henry has the heart of the truest believer, so that's a good person to have on your team. He always has a positive outlook on things, so he's constantly encouraging her and has her back in a way that no one else does, to keep at it and don't give up. He's on board and helping her research and finding the clues. There will be clues that will be revealed in the second part of the season that will help us find who the author is.

 

Will additional "lost" pages for the storybook be found during this search?
Parrilla: They're on that journey as well, finding the missing pages and finding the person involved in taking these pages out and replacing them. So that will be revealed as well in the second part of the season.

 

Mr. Gold/Rumplestiltskin (Robert Carlyle) intends to leave Storybrooke, but does not seem to have good intentions for the rest of the world. Can you tease anything about his journey in the second half of the season?

Parrilla: I can't say anything about Gold or where he's headed. I will say that however he's going about this plan, Regina doesn't think it will work out. She has very little faith and she's a bit delusional about this thing too. She doesn't quite know that part of his plan is taking her son away. So we'll see how that unfolds.

 

From tumblr:

 

NOT SURE IF AN EXTENDED VERSION OF THE PROMO FOR 'HEROES AND VILLAINS' HAS BEEN AIRING IN THE U.S., BUT HERE IN CANADA THE PROMO HAS A CLIP FROM THE SNEAK PEEK THAT WAS RECENTLY RELEASED ("ANNA'S A DANGER TO YOU."); ELSA SAYING, "WE NEED TO FIND A WAY BACK - NOW." WITH EMMA RESPONDING, "WE NEED TO FIND A PORTAL."; AND ANNA FACING EMMA WHILE EMMA SAYS, "SO GOLD WAS PLAYING US THE WHOLE TIME."

Canadians?

Edited December 12, 2014 by retrograde

[Crimson Belle]

I see the Ursula pics and get more stoned flower child than evil wicked sea hag.

[maryle]

Well that is a twist I never saw coming. I do think it could be interesting to see Hook with the dagger .

What he will do with it? Rumple face when Hook call him the first time. So, I'm sure if I will like the sl but I'm sure I hope it is the real because gave him the fake one, its pointless.

 

So A and E find their idea listening to the soap, another triangle ! Will and Belle kissing really? Such a waste of fun character!

[Mathius]

If A&E ruin Scarlet Queen...I will rage.

I don't think so. They've all but confirmed they plan for Emma Rigby to appear on the show by the end of the season, have foreshadowed Anastasia (who remember, most viewers are unfamiliar with) already, and Cinderella being brought back into the show this season is another obvious indicator of Ana's eventual appearance.

This whole thing is a retread of the Scarlet Queen story from the spin-off so that the wider audience can see and appreciate it....though they only can once Will gets some genuine focus, which they've claimed he will in 4B, so we'll see.

And it doesn't look like he has much to do in 4B so far, either... So, they have him getting drunk and doing random stuff.

It's only been two episodes filmed for 4B, let's be patient. They said already that 4B is Will's big time, and that he was only ever intended to be limited to "glimpses" into him in 4A. I think he's pretty much going to be this season's August...spends a while just hanging around and being vague but becomes really important toward the end.

I see the Ursula pics and get more stoned flower child than evil wicked sea hag.

This show's Ursula is a goddess, not an evil sea hag. A&E have also said she isn't straight-up evil and is likely the most morally gray of the trio, with Cruella being the least and Maleficent falling somewhere in the middle.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Mathius

[InsertWordHere]

Ooh, finally we get confirmation that the heroes are at least somewhat onto Gold with "So Gold's playing us the whole time." Yes.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

Parrilla: They're on that journey as well, finding the missing pages and finding the person involved in taking these pages out and replacing them. So that will be revealed as well in the second part of the season.

So someone has been taking pages out of fate and replacing them just to mess with Regina? The heck? Is there like this whole alternate timeline of happy endings for villains and the author just has some kind of grudge against them? This book stuff is confusing.

Edited December 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

So someone has been taking pages out of fate and replacing them just to mess with Regina? The heck? Is there like this whole alternate timeline of happy endings for villains and the author just has some kind of grudge against them? This book stuff is confusing.

 

I think A&E have finally and completely... lost the plot with this arc. 

[Souris]

The book arc makes no damn sense. Though it sounds like they're actually going to make it like somebody is controlling them by taking out pages? Blergh. Massive, massive blergh. Or maybe it will be something like Option A was "supposed" to happen, but one of the people involved did something to mess it up, so the "author" replaced the defunct Option A with what really happened, Option B. I wouldn't mind that as much, because Regina would still be responsible for messing up her own happy ending by running away from Robin at the tavern. So many tables will be flipped if they make it so Regina wasn't responsible for her own choices. Talk about the ultimate whitewash!

 

Apparently Belle & Hook dug up the dagger before she gave it to him and drove off.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

Apparently Belle & Hook dug up the dagger before she gave it to him and drove off.

 

So, does this mean Rumple does not succeed in cleaving himself from the Dagger? Or is the Dagger still powerful, but just doesn't control Rumple anymore? I wonder what happens to the Hat. I hope it's not forgotten by the end of 4A.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Rumsy4

[The Cake is a Pie]

So do we know that Hook has his heart back by the time that scene with Belle takes place? Is it possible he doesn't and Belle finds out, so she gives him the dagger in a fair-fight sort of way? Then Rumple can control Hook via heart, but Hook controls Rumple withe dagger, and they are at an impasse (clearly, I cannot choose the wine in front of you)? But then, Belle only THINKS she has the dagger....

I think I'm excited about this no matter the scenario.

[Shanna Marie]

Until the word that they were digging up the dagger, I had a theory that Belle thought it was safest for Hook to be the one who knew where it was because she knew he was the one person she was sure wasn't afraid of Rumple.

 

Now I'm wondering if maybe she does end up with the real dagger at the end of the current arc, and that's how she manages to save Hook, but then she buries it rather than have it, but now she's worried about it falling into the wrong hands with the Trio of Terror around.

 

Wow, we've got a long time to wait until we learn what's going on.

[retrograde]

Blurry dark Hook with dagger. Blurry dark Regina and Cruella's car. Adam posts "The Charmings' table"

[Jean]

I still maintain Rumple "succeeds" in his plan. There's just some info he's unaware of. Hook with the dagger now makes me think that the Dark Curse transferred over to him but for plot contrived reasons it won't work the same way as with Rumple. They have the built in excuse that Hook didn't stab him for the usual way rules to apply. Because no way do I see them writing Belle giving the dagger to hook if Rumple is still under its control. And that could also be a plot contrived way for Hook to still be alive if his heart gets crushed. The curse is strong enough for his life to be maintained through his ankles or something. Belle is giving it to him cause it's his.

Or it's a shapeshifted Belle.

[OnceUponAJen]

Ugh, I would not like for Killian to be the Dark One due to all this. I think Belle will probably get hold of the real dagger and that is how Hook gets his heart back, because Belle will be able to compel Rumple to surrender it. Hook looks too happy in the spoiler pics for 4B, so I doubt his life is still in danger after 4x11. I guess we will find out how that bit plays out soon enough, and it will be easier to predict where they're going with this after Sunday. I hope he is not still keeping secrets from Emma over into 4B!

This spoiler is an interesting twist!

[RadioGirl27]

We are assuming that Emma doesn't know anything about the encounter between Belle and Hook, but maybe all three are working together. Maybe Emma asked Belle to hide the dagger after whatever happens this Sunday and now they need it for something and Hook goes to get it. I just don't want this to be the cursed lips 4.0.

[YaddaYadda]

So did they teal the "Charmings Table" from Camelot or something?  And I can't take it seriously if I have to see Granny sitting there knitting with the dwarves during war council (actually I can't take any of this show seriously).

 

About Hook and Belle digging the dagger out.  This seems to be a callback to S1 when Rumple buried it in the woods before August came to town and decided to pass himself off as Baelfire.  I still wonder why Hook is in possession in the first place. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Yay! The round table is back! Hopefully that means we'll see Archie (cricket or human form) in a scene.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm beginning to think the flashbacks this season are some alternate timeline. We've seen the War Council table and the troll bridge, and a lot of EF. Then there's that "missing pages" stuff...

[retrograde]

I think they're more likely just showing how the main cast know the Trio. Certainly they seem to have been filming flashback stuff with them and the Charmings recently.

[Mitch]

So did they teal the "Charmings Table" from Camelot or something?  And I can't take it seriously if I have to see Granny sitting there knitting with the dwarves during war council (actually I can't take any of this show seriously).

 

About Hook and Belle digging the dagger out.  This seems to be a callback to S1 when Rumple buried it in the woods before August came to town and decided to pass himself off as Baelfire.  I still wonder why Hook is in possession in the first place. 

 

I always think that when looking at the "War Council," table...Granny and the idiot dwarves and no wonder even a moronic villan like Regina can succeed.

 

Didn't the pilot have soldiers at the table so it looked like at least some people meant business?

 

"I see the Ursula pics and get more stoned flower child than evil wicked sea hag."

 

Oh I think Ursula, just by her pics is well on her way to be my favorite Once character ever! We need break from the stiff backed idiotic heros and the inept backsliding "villains," we have seen for four years.  Please, don't kill Ursula and her bestie Cruella..semi reform then and keep the around to add bitchy commentary to the happenings in Storybrooke.."Ms. Swan, this is Regina...now your the sheriff so get those two bitches to quit dumping their cans of Schlitz and bottles of Wild Turkey off my lawn! What? Yes, I know they don't like me, NO ONE likes me, but those two arent afraid of me and it is really starting to bug me. I have to go, the doorbell is ringing and I am sure its a flaming bag of Pongo poop!"

Edited December 12, 2014 by Mitch

[RadioGirl27]

From EW, some spoilers about Maleficent:
 

How the heck does Maleficent keep coming back to life on Once Upon a Time? — Dina
We’ll get the answer to that very soon. “We did say she had a spell on her that made her be preserved in whatever form she was in, be that ash, be that dragon,” executive producer Edward Kitsis reminds viewers. “So, we know that she was exploded into ash. How she gets brought back will be an entire episode.”

[YaddaYadda]

Oh I can't wait to see how contrived this is going to be!!  

 

We saw Emma fight her dragon form and that's when she exploded into ash.  And then we saw Hook with her but we don't know what he did or how he did it.

[Rumsy4]

We saw Emma fight her dragon form and that's when she exploded into ash. And then we saw Hook with her but we don't know what he did or how he did it.

He liked it, so he put a ring... er, Pan's bracelet on it. :-p At least, something like that is what I think happened. Tamara probably gave him something to neutralize magic.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Rumsy4

[The Cake is a Pie]

I don't think Hook actually fought her, he just evaded then was pulled out somehow by Greg and Tamara. I think. I don't recall exactly, I've tried to block out most of that whole Greg/Tamara storyline. 

 

Since it's not looking likely that I'll get my wish that Cruella remain magic-less, can I at least hope that she will be unrepentantly evil? Sure, Regina can inflict years of torture, murder, and manipulation on an entire kingdom and it's all forgiven, but no one can justify wanting to skin puppies.

[Curio]

So, we know that she was exploded into ash. How she gets brought back will be an entire episode.

 

So that's going to be an entire episode. They've also pretty much confirmed each new villain will get their own flashback episode. That covers 3-4 episodes right there. And then there's the episode Lana described about how Regina and Maleficent became friends. I'm getting the feeling that every flashback episode in 4B will only be about the Evil Trio, ala the Frozen flashbacks in 4A. I at least hope we get some other characters interacting with the new villains in the flashbacks besides the usual suspects Regina and Rumple.