Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Even if Rumple dies in the finale in a retread of "Going Home", that doesn't mean he can't come back for a potential Season 7 in a number of different ways (brought back to life/flashbacks only/Dark One Ghost). 

Clippy!Rumple lives.

[ParadoxLost]

5 hours ago, cappoe said:

Reasons why it makes sense for Rumple to die.

1. Black Fairy is the villain, his mother. A parallel to Going Home. He sacrifices his life to kill his mother.

3. Gideon is redeemed completely through his fathers sacrifice.

5. After everything he's done in this series, he's the only one that can be redeemed only through death.

Only good things can come from Rumple's death and the most important of all with his death goes The Dark One curse.

I'm not sure all of these can be simultaneously true because of the Dark One curse.

The need one of three things to happen:

- A place with no magic for Gold to die

- Someone to stab him with his dagger

- Rumple to kill himself with his dagger.

For Gold to be killed with his dagger, they need someone that either wants to be the Dark One or hates Rumple enough to be willing to become the Dark One.  Being murdered doesn't equal redemption and does nothing really to redeem Gideon.

Rumple's redemption (which I think is the way they will go) would actually point towards Rumple killing himself to end the curse.  The only plausible reason for that is that Gideon switches from wanting to be the Savior to wanting to be the Dark One and Rumple kills himself during the fight to save Gideon from himself.

I do wonder if Belle will survive to weep over Rumple or if they will make her a casualty of the 'final battle' to drive Gideon and Rumple's actions.

[Camera One]

Why isn't everyone discussing that exciting Beowulf sneak peek.  

My thought while watching it: "WTF does this have to do with anything?"  No urgency that this might be the final season...

Edited March 17, 2017 by Camera One

[Curio]

Just now, Camera One said:

"WTF does this have to do with anything?"

 

Nothing, really. It's just going to be a bunch of clashing swords wasting time during this potential series finale run of final episodes.

[Camera One]

I'm glad we're going to see the First Ogres' War... said no one.

[cappoe]

Well on to other news, there's no way the new guy is adult Henry. He filmed w/ Colin, Bex, Jasmine, Aladdin and the little girl today. No way in heck. So there goes that theory.

JMO should be back next week since she has a long weekend.

[oncebluethrone]

I'm glad of that. It was too obvious and I'm not too fond of Henry as a character. But who could the new guy be?  However, it is still possible that he is an adult Henry if he time traveled from the future to the present day.  But I don't think that's likely.

[Souris]

6 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I'm glad of that. It was too obvious and I'm not too fond of Henry as a character. But who could the new guy be?  However, it is still possible that he is an adult Henry if he time traveled from the future to the present day.  But I don't think that's likely.

Or the others have been in a curse stasis and this is a flash forward.

[Camera One]

ADULT HENRY FROM THE FUTURE: Hey guys, it's me, Henry!  Ask me anything.

EMMA: What's your favorite movie?

ADULT HENRY: Well it depends it... it might be "Breakfast Club," but "Sixteen Candles" shows off my fun side..

EMMA: Uh, say no more.

REGINA: Why did you come back to the past?  What do you need to tell us?

ADULT HENRY: Things are really bad.  We need your help.  FIND NIMUE!

[Souris]

Oh, or Henry got sucked into the Dark Realm and SORASed* like Gideon.

*Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome for those not familiar.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

Well, they did say he would be playing a "grown up who is a kid." That makes it sound like only his body aged and he still has the mentality of a kid. Now I'm scared that the little girl is a "kid who is a grown up."

[Souris]

I'm not sure of the veracity of that grownup who is a kid detail. Wasn't that only from an article that used another article for its only source?

Edited March 17, 2017 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

I think it was from Deadline and then quoted in Digital Spy. I'm not sure about Deadline's source here. They just say, "Details about his character are being kept under wraps, but word is he will play a grown-up who is a kid." I doubt most shows would go with magical aging shenanigans for their possible series finale, but who knows with A&E. They might be trying to top the time travel and AU finales. 

[PixiePaws1]

So the entire ogre war flashback is about showing the sword that kills Emma belonged to Beowolf...didn't we already guess that???

..and it is enchanted with Light magic so the bearer is labeled a hero......so what happens if it is used by a Dark magic wielder to kill a Savior??  Can it be used to kill the Dark One without becoming next DO...hope not because that would make almost as silly as Rumpel (who seems to have missed all the options to get to the LWM)...

Nothing in the spoiler box..i can't get rid of it...!

Spoiler

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by PixiePaws1

[cappoe]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Or the others have been in a curse stasis and this is a flash forward.

That doesn't explain what happened to Emma, Snowing, Belle, and the others. Unless they're just off screen somewhere in SB.

And if they filmed this today with those people there's no way this is a flash forward of any kind.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

Adult Henry and random young girl are from the future, and are trying to stop the catastrophe that CHANGED EVERYTHING. 

[Curio]

7 hours ago, Souris said:

Oh, or Henry got sucked into the Dark Realm and SORASed* like Gideon.

This would so be something A&E would do. Actually...I mean...no offense to Jared...but I really wouldn't be opposed to permanently aging up his character. The writers clearly don't know how to write for Henry anymore with a "teen" voice, so they might as well change him to an adult. 

[asabovesobelow]

From EW:

 

New information about Rumplestiltskin will come to light during Sunday’s episode of Once Upon a Time that may change viewers’ opinion of the Dark One

Is that even an option at this point? We already know the plethora of shitty, horrible things that happened to him. He waffles between good and bad, okay. What new information could possibly change viewers' opinion of him? Is there an evil twin out there? Is he really a ghost? I really can't think of anything that would substantially change my opinion of him.

[CCTC]

4 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

He waffles between good and bad, okay.

I don't think he even waffles between good and bad -- he pretends to want to be good if it gets him what he wants - whether Belle or reconciling with one of his sons, but he really does not have any sincere desire to give up the darkness and power.  As soon as he has duped Belle or whoever he has reformed he secretly start to do bad things again.  There is no real struggle with him -- just him putting up a facade he is struggling.

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

New information about Rumplestiltskin will come to light during Sunday’s episode of Once Upon a Time that may change viewers’ opinion of the Dark One

Is that even an option at this point? We already know the plethora of shitty, horrible things that happened to him. He waffles between good and bad, okay. What new information could possibly change viewers' opinion of him? Is there an evil twin out there? Is he really a ghost? I really can't think of anything that would substantially change my opinion of him.

Well, you see, during the last 3 minutes of the episode, it will be revealed through a retconned flashback that Rumple *GASP!* murdered Henry's grandparent! How will the Charming family ever forgive him? Now we're going to go through multiple episodes where Rumple will brood and feel bad about what he did and try to atone for his mistake...

Oh wait, he's already killed Henry's grandparent? Twice? And never really felt that bad about it? Okay then.

Yeah, I can't think of anything truly shocking at this point. 

[Souris]

We'll find out Rumple was good and misunderstood all along!

[Camera One]

New script tease with another Regina/Snow scene... why do we bother?

[Curio]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

New script tease with another Regina/Snow scene... why do we bother?

Seriously. Has Snow even bothered to say one word to her daughter who was just sent to another realm and nearly died?

[sharky]

Well to be fair to Snow she slept through that whole "Emma got wished away" nonsense so maybe she just didn't notice. 

[Camera One]

We might only have 10 episodes left, and the Writers can't have Emma and Snow interact even when the circumstances call for it.  It's ridiculous.  

[Free]

3 hours ago, asabovesobelow said:

From EW:

 

New information about Rumplestiltskin will come to light during Sunday’s episode of Once Upon a Time that may change viewers’ opinion of the Dark One

Is that even an option at this point? We already know the plethora of shitty, horrible things that happened to him. He waffles between good and bad, okay. What new information could possibly change viewers' opinion of him? Is there an evil twin out there? Is he really a ghost? I really can't think of anything that would substantially change my opinion of him.

We already know all there is to know about him at this point, so any retcon doesn't work especially at this late into the game.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why isn't everyone discussing that exciting Beowulf sneak peek.  

Oh, I get why Beowulf is mad at Rumple for stopping the ogre wars now - B never got to be the 'hero'.  

::sigh::  What that has to do with anything else though is anyone's guess.   Other than a really clunky time-hogging manner to introduce the origins of the sword.

10 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

..and it is enchanted with Light magic so the bearer is labeled a hero......so what happens if it is used by a Dark magic wielder to kill a Savior??

Maybe it can't kill Emma since she's Light magic also?  (Light magic doesn't cancel out Light magic.)

ETA: Henry's singing?  

Edited March 17, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey
Good grief.

[Souris]

FWIW:

Also for the OUAT fans was told by a Full cast member this morning that if theres a S7 they will not be a regular on it. Take that as u will

They as in the person is a full time cast member but would not be next season . Guest spots but not a full timer

We can rule out that being Jen, because she's not in Vancouver for him to talk to.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

Is it sad I'm hoping Granny gets a big solo number? 

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Is it sad I'm hoping Granny gets a big solo number? 

I saw her on a poster at Starbucks for a choir she's in (on the bulletin board beside the sugar and the cream), so I hope so.  But I wouldn't hold my breath.  The best we can hope for is a solo singing line.

After all, these are Writers who brought Red back for a few episodes and didn't think it was necessary to give Granny a scene or even a line about it.  This is such a character show, as A&E keeps repeating...

Edited March 17, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I saw her on a poster at Starbucks for a choir she's in (on the bulletin board beside the sugar and the cream), so I hope so.  But I wouldn't hold my breath.  The best we can hope for is a solo singing line.

Watch her belt out, "And this is my one liiiiine for the episode!" or Weird Al's parody of La Bamba, "Lasagna".

Edited March 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Is it sad I'm hoping Granny gets a big solo number? 

One of the prep sets was Granny's hovel.

[Camera One]

EP Edward Kitsis says. “It’s not like, ‘Oh, we’re taking a break from all the intensity to do a musical!’

He says "intensity" like it's a good thing.  Everything they say is really quite telling.

[KingOfHearts]

I noticed that in "Mother's Little Helper", Hook filmed with the Lost Boys and Blackbeard. I'm sure someone already posted this, but the title combined with Hook possibly featured in flashbacks could possibly be mean BF is Hook's mother too. That would make Rumple and Hook half-brothers. Hook is the only main character who hasn't had both parents revealed. 

Or, you know, Hook's mother is just Tiger Lily.

Edited March 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[cappoe]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

FWIW:

Also for the OUAT fans was told by a Full cast member this morning that if theres a S7 they will not be a regular on it. Take that as u will

They as in the person is a full time cast member but would not be next season . Guest spots but not a full timer

We can rule out that being Jen, because she's not in Vancouver for him to talk to.

I would say Bex. She's the only one casual with the fans and paps. And has said so on multiple occasions.

Ginny and Josh are done. So is Bobby(Rumple is dying). Nothing definitive on JMO yet. Colin and Lana and her are in negotiations so I assume they'll be regulars.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cappoe

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Ugh.  WHY did I read that A&E article?

In regards Hook killing David's father:

Quote

 they wanted to put “Hook through the ringer to see how far he’s come and what he can overcome.” 

Didn't they do this in the S2 Neverland arc when Hook chose to come clean right away about Bae/Neal?

On Old!Hook:

Quote

 we wanted to create nightmare scenarios for Emma. 

So Emma working with Pinocchio was as much of a nightmare for her as it was for me, right?

Quote

 For us, Colin did that rare thing, which is he came on the show and I think people have forgotten he wasn’t in the pilot.

Um, no we haven't.  The fans aren't the ones who forget show canon.  You are.

Quote

Hook’s been on this journey to become a hero. Does he have much longer to go?
Horowitz: I feel like he’s already shown us that hero. I think that mentally, he has to let go of the past and embrace his future. I think that one of the things we see with our villains is they try to move forward, but sometimes deeds from the past hold them back.* That fight and that struggle is what, to us as writers, makes them interesting.

*Well, unless you're Regina.  

But honestly, until this snafu, I pretty much thought Hook had let go of his past and embraced his future.  Isn't that what the whole 'buying a house and ring' are about?  Is that just me?  Do they really not see this?

[Selina K]

Look at all the robust discussion of the Robin / Regina sneak peek!

*crickets*

This week looks like a complete snore. I like Bobby Carlyle and I enjoy his Rumple, but the character has been written into a corner. There is nowhere to go.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

But honestly, until this snafu, I pretty much thought Hook had let go of his past and embraced his future.  Isn't that what the whole 'buying a house and ring' are about?  Is that just me?  Do they really not see this?

The writers are too blind to see that marriage alone is a challenge. Moving forward, creating a domestic life, and waking up every morning with someone next to you are new adventures of their own. Hook and Emma are moving into new territory that is interesting in of itself. The writers do not appreciate what life gives, and they do not follow the "enjoy the moments" philosophy that the show has tried to share with us in the past. They are very lazy and incompetent if they have to use murder and magical shenanigans as crutches for their poor writing skills. If they can't make Captain Hook and the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming living in Maine interesting, they've failed their jobs.

Edited March 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

My feeling is that the only regular characters who will be back for S7 are Regina and Hook. Possibly Zelena. I can't see ABC letting go of Colin even if Jen leaves. They will need him to draw viewers for a S7.

And since they have only one script, I don't think it will matter whether the show is cancelled or not as to how they leave things in the finale. There's some talk on Tumblr of Emma being written out "in a way she can't come back from." I don't know where that came from or the veracity of it at all. But I definitely don't expect a happy ending for Emma if Jen leaves, whether the show returns or not. I just don't trust A&E at all.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Souris

[cappoe]

Isn't the person saying this Freifrashcer and haven't they been wrong like numerous amount of times and have point blank stated how much she hates JMO? I wouldn't trust her word as far as I can throw her.

 

Emma is not going to die in the finale, that is Rumple.

If they know it's the end I'm sure they'll make a satisfying ending...hopefully.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cappoe

[Souris]

21 minutes ago, cappoe said:

Isn't the person saying this Freifrashcer and haven't they been wrong like numerous amount of times and have point blank stated how much she hates JMO? I wouldn't trust her word as far as I can throw her.

Emma is not going to die in the finale, that is Rumple.

If they know it's the end I'm sure they'll make a satisfying ending...hopefully.

I don't know who the wording came from, just that it was going around Tumblr. If it was from her, yeah, she's a very biased source; she loathes Jen.

Emma doesn't have to die to be separated from Hook -- she could be cursed away somewhere, stuck in a box, turned to stone, whatever.

See, I don't think A&E will do a satisfying ending if there's even the remotest possibility of a S7. They need to do something to try to entice people to turn back into the possible S7. New people and Regina aren't going to do it on their own. They will need CS/Hook fans to tune in to make the ratings even potentially viable.

Even without the possibility of S7, I don't trust A&E to wrap things up satisfactorily. They always put a nasty twist at the end of everything.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Souris

[cappoe]

Well keep in mind that it wouldn't only be Emma. It would be snowing, belle, and anybody else that is leaving this season.

if there's a S7 it probably means we will have to wait till the end of that season to see CS reunite. If not they'll end it hopefully on a positive note this season.

[KingOfHearts]

You could easily get rid of Snow, Charming, Belle, Rumple, and... *sob* Zelena. Emma, Hook, and Regina are debatably what hold things together. I can't really see how you could have Hook without Emma. She is literally the reason he wants to keep living, and there's no way you could sell any new passion that could overshadow everything they've went through together. Regina has enough going for her to lead her own show, but Hook needs Emma or at least the hope to get her back in order to have any sustained purpose. It's too big of a risk to reboot his character from scratch. 

Of course, it comes down to contracts, budget, negotiations, etc. I'm speaking merely from a story standpoint. Whatever reasoning there would be for Emma to not be in a reboot/spinoff would have to be pretty tragic, considering she and Hook are getting married beforehand.

Quote

Even without the possibility of S7, I don't trust A&E to wrap things up satisfactorily. They always put a nasty twist at the end of everything.

I don't either. I just don't want things to end on some big cliffhanger. They would totally do that, since they hate conclusions so much.

Edited March 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

On Old!Hook:

Quote

 we wanted to create nightmare scenarios for Emma. 

Which was why they played it totally for laughs.

6 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

But honestly, until this snafu, I pretty much thought Hook had let go of his past and embraced his future.  Isn't that what the whole 'buying a house and ring' are about?  Is that just me?  Do they really not see this?

And why can't he be challenged by something in the present? Can't he be heroic because there's something that needs to be done now instead of because he has to make up for something he did in the past? Everything he does is because he regrets his past and wants to make up for it. He doesn't need additional, specific acts. Couldn't he just see something that needs to be done that maybe he's uniquely suited to doing, and then do it? There's plenty of room for that -- he's good with a ship, has fought in a war, is an expert realm-hopper, has probably traveled a lot of places and met a lot of people. Couldn't there have been someone in his past he didn't wrong in some way? Has he not made any friends at all?

Maybe that's where Tiger Lily will come in, but given the amount of imagination they usually show, I'm guessing that Hook will have done something awful to her in the past that he'll have to make up for. And if Blackbeard is coming back (I don't suppose for the musical episode? Because Charles Mesure has a glorious voice), then Hook will probably have to atone for making him walk the plank and getting his ship back in spite of having sold it to him.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Maybe that's where Tiger Lily will come in, but given the amount of imagination they usually show, I'm guessing that Hook will have done something awful to her in the past that he'll have to make up for.

So... could the little girl or Adult!Henry casting actually be him and Tiger Lily's child?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

28 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Couldn't he just see something that needs to be done that maybe he's uniquely suited to doing, and then do it? There's plenty of room for that -- he's good with a ship, has fought in a war, is an expert realm-hopper, has probably traveled a lot of places and met a lot of people. Couldn't there have been someone in his past he didn't wrong in some way? Has he not made any friends at all?

You know, if they'd taken the time and done it right, the whole Jasmine/Aladdin save Agrabah thing could have been this.  As it is, his adventure with them will probably be about atonement for something - David's dad and a plethora of other past sins - rather than helping out in the present because he could and wanted to  (as opposed to Regina helping just so she'd be called a hero.)  

6 hours ago, Selina K said:

Look at all the robust discussion of the Robin / Regina sneak peek!

*sending Regina a copy of "He's Just Not That Into You".*  ::snicker::

[Souris]

26 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

So... could the little girl or Adult!Henry casting actually be him and Tiger Lily's child?

I made a vow earlier to spit at A&E if they cast a Hispanic girl as the child of a Native American woman and Caucasian man.

But I could see them doing that as a way to keep Hook around if/when Emma's written out.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Souris

[ParadoxLost]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

You could easily get rid of Snow, Charming, Belle, Rumple, and... *sob* Zelena. Emma, Hook, and Regina are debatably what hold things together. I can't really see how you could have Hook without Emma. She is literally the reason he wants to keep living, and there's no way you could sell any new passion that could overshadow everything they've went through together. Regina has enough going for her to lead her own show, but Hook needs Emma or at least the hope to get her back in order to have any sustained purpose. It's too big of a risk to reboot his character from scratch. 

Of course, it comes down to contracts, budget, negotiations, etc. I'm speaking merely from a story standpoint. Whatever reasoning there would be for Emma to not be in a reboot/spinoff would have to be pretty tragic, considering she and Hook are getting married beforehand.

In perhaps a case of prepare for the worse.  Nope., not going to do it.  Not going to hope for the best.

Just because there is an engagement and a wedding doesn't mean there is a marriage.  

And I don't like that Hook is filming with the new kid and that  and episode called Mother's Little Helper seems to have a lot of Hook in it..  Makes me think she's Tiger Lily and Hook's kid.

[asabovesobelow]

7 hours ago, cappoe said:

Isn't the person saying this Freifrashcer and haven't they been wrong like numerous amount of times and have point blank stated how much she hates JMO? I wouldn't trust her word as far as I can throw her.

 

Emma is not going to die in the finale, that is Rumple.

If they know it's the end I'm sure they'll make a satisfying ending...hopefully.

I follow freifraufischer on tumblr...she thinks Rumple's out, not Emma. There are tons of anon asks about the possibility of Emma being written out, and she answers them, but she point blank said she doesn't think it will be Emma.

 

Does that Ken guy on twitter have any kind of proven track record? I'd never heard of him before like, last week, and now his info is popping up everywhere.

[cappoe]

Quote

Just because there is an engagement and a wedding doesn't mean there is a marriage.  

And I don't like that Hook is filming with the new kid and that  and episode called Mother's Little Helper seems to have a lot of Hook in it..  Makes me think she's Tiger Lily and Hook's kid.

Two problems with this, ready?

1. They filmed the reception, so yes they get married. They are legally married. No interruptions, no second guessing, nothing. Killian and Emma are married.

2. Tiger Lily does not come in until Awake, 6x17 and she's here till 6x19(which is titled Black Fairy). And spoilers indicate she's more connected to Black Fairy then any other character.  Mothers Little Helper is a Rumple/Gideon centric w/ a Black Fairy background.

On a side note Colin is not the only one filming with the new kid. Yesterday the new kid filmed with Colin, Lana, Bex, Jaladdin, and the new guy.

Quote

So... could the little girl or Adult!Henry casting actually be him and Tiger Lily's child?

No she can't or at least I don't think she can. The casting call specifically said the little girl comes from a broken home aka a home where her parents are divorced/separated. So it's impossible for the little girl to be Hook's kid, cause until Emma, Hook was gut set on his revenge on Rumple because of what happened to Milah. Aside from the fact that she is hispanic and Tiger Lily is native american and they literally look nothing alike.

Edited March 18, 2017 by cappoe