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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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(edited)

Didn't thet say there is not going to be a True Love's kiss in the finale?

Yeah, but they also say this:

"There's some kissing action going on in the finale," Horowitz promised. "What it does and how it works may not be as we've seen before, but there's definitely some kissing action."

That's why I think something similar to a TLK is going to happen. This doesn't sound like a normal kiss.

 

I guess I'd like to know when Emma will get to have a happy ending. By the way new people are constantly coming to town she'll never get hers because she'll always have to work for everyone else's.

 

In the series finale.

 

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Spoilers from one of the people who was around watching finale filming. Confirms very little CS. 13+ characters??? Jesus wept! It's going to be like 4x11 in the rushed department. I'm quite certain the CS emotional revelation and "payoff" will be every bit as rushed and underwhelming as the "payoff" to the Hook's heart arc. Much more important to see the Author in his TV gig.

 

Whatever kind-of-but-not-really TLK happens, it'll probably be Rumbelle, so he can be saved after he's freed from the dark curse and his crimes excused. Because it's such a romantic and healthy relationship.

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13+ characters??? Jesus wept! It's going to be like 4x11 in the rushed department.

 

Again, why are we saving all the good stuff for the last two episodes? We wouldn't be running into this issue if we scrapped the pointless Queens of Darkness, Lily and the egg baby plot, and just focused on the author for all of 4B. The first part of 4B could have been the search for the author, the second part could have been the fun alternate universe episodes, and then the finale could have been the resolution to how they get back to Storybrooke. That would have been plenty for 11 episodes.

 

And yeah, it looks like Hook and Emma will mirror the Rumple and Belle 4A finale goodbye scene. An entire season of very little interaction, and then the writers expect us to get emotional over their goodbye scene just because the actors are great at their jobs.

 

Just keep staring at Charming's guyliner...breathe...look at the guyliner...

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What is this "always" you speak of? I think the word you're looking for is "occasionally" or "sporadically."

 

It sort of would be always if there was ever a payoff to the angst they put them through, see addendum about Emma nearly being sucked in a hat and his heart nearly being crushed. 

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Spoilers from one of the people who was around watching finale filming. Confirms very little CS. 13+ characters??? Jesus wept! It's going to be like 4x11 in the rushed department. I'm quite certain the CS emotional revelation and "payoff" will be every bit as rushed and underwhelming as the "payoff" to the Hook's heart arc. Much more important to see the Author in his TV gig.

More than 13 characters???

 

f031fc75ed0b1ec215bbf9a29f3952f7.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure the emotional revelation would be Emma telling him that she loves him just before she sacrifices herself. Being generous, 15 second. And that would be half the time he would be in the episode.

 

Again, why are we saving all the good stuff for the last two episodes? We wouldn't be running into this issue if we scrapped the pointless Queens of Darkness, Lily and the egg baby plot, and just focused on the author for all of 4B. The first part of 4B could have been the search for the author, the second part could have been the fun alternate universe episodes, and then the finale could have been the resolution to how they get back to Storybrooke. That would have been plenty for 11 episodes.

Yeah. Did we really need another pointless Regina's flashback? I don't think so. They should have given that flashback to the Author. Instead, they are giving him the first part of the finale, what means less time for the regular characters and for emotional payoff. Unless you are Regina or Rumple, then of course you get that.

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(edited)

Overly Optimistic Fan: OMG are they finally introducing Davy Jones?!

Slightly Optimistic Fan: Is he talking about The Apprentice? Wow, are they actually going to address a plot point from 4A? Will Hook confess what he did to The Apprentice to Emma? But shouldn't that have been discussed during the 6 weeks we missed? And why would Emma care about that since Gold forced him to do it? Will they actually dive into his insecurity about why he was forced to do it because he doesn't feel like a good enough man for her, which is why he had his hand put back on for their date?

Slightly Pessimistic Fan: Okay, this is probably just a throwaway line about The Apprentice to set up a quick scene where they finally release him from the hat.

Edited by Curio
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(edited)

Slightly Pessimistic Fan here. lol Belle knows about the Apprentice. So I imagine Emma knows about it too. The poor guy will be happy there is a crisis. Otherwise he'd be stuck in the Hat for a long time. Hey--maybe he'll be the one to come up with the magical white-out solution (check the poll--hehe).

Edited by Rumsy4
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Is it too much to hope for a scene where Regina actually apologizes to Snow in Storybrooke when this is all over because she finally recognizes how much misery she put bandit Snow through?

Yes, yes it is too much to hope. In fact, not only will Snow still be totally at fault for everything that happened in the real timeline, but she will also be at fault for everything that happens in the AU. Regina will remain absolved of everything she did in the real timeline because The Evil Queen and Regina are totally different people, and what happens in the Enchanted Forest stays in the Enchanted Forest, but Snow will still be to blame for what she did as a child in the Enchanted Forest and for what she did as Evil Snow, even though it was an alternate reality created by someone who was manipulating fate.

 

I must admit, I had a hard time keeping a straight face during that clip, with all of Regina begging to be forgiven for her mistake as a child. I do hope they are aware of the irony in doing this role reversal. But instead of Regina gaining any awareness, it'll just be Snow realizing how wrong she was to Regina and apologizing yet again.

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First script tease

 

Hook: I know this man

Emma: You do?

 

Me: WTF guys?!?  If this is about the Apprentice, you guys suck for remembering him just now because you need help!

I can't with this man, he is such a troll. He likes to use CS as a bait, but then the show (almost) never delivers. 

Anyway, I think that's the dialogue that goes with this pic.

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He likes to use CS as a bait, but then the show (almost) never delivers.

I am so tempted to respond to that tease tweet with something like, "Damn, now you've spoiled all of Hook's dialogue for the whole episode."

 

This is why I give myself a twitter waiting period.

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Anyway, I think that's the dialogue that goes with this pic.

 

That is the Apprentice's place and you can even see his broom off in the corner and he apparently plays the guitar.  I think this scene is also supposed to have August in it.

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(edited)

I'm gonna guess where the SP cuts off is when Emma comes in, saves Bandit Regina from Evil Snow?

 

Since Emma is dueling "hero" Rumple, does it mean she's evil?

Edited by Serena
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(edited)

Ugh. Not happy about the script tease,really. If it's about the Apprentice I'm gonna have to wrangle up some A&E voodoo dolls or something. If Everyone knows about the fairies, they should already also know about the apprentice. it would make NO sense for Killy to spill about the fairies and not the apprentice. If that's the case then I can already hear the rabid Hook haters ready to use this as another excuse for why Hook's more evil than Satan himself. And that's something I really don't need.

So please, A&E, let it be any person other than the apprentice!

*now that I am halfway calmed down, I have realized that Hook probably didn't know the old guy that got sucked into the hat was the apprentice.

I'm just hoping he told Emma that he helped suck some guy into a hat.

And i'm chuckling now, because it seems like they totally forgot about him. I guess they only cared about the fairies. Lol.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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(edited)

But, if I rememeber right, Hook doesn't know that the old guy he helped hat was the Apprentice.

 

Some spoilers from EOnline:

 

Ali M.: I'll take anything you've got on the OUAT finale!
Anything? How about what will be a trending topic during the epic two-hour event? "#Ogreslayer!" co-creators Adam Horowitz and Eddy Kitsis predict. And make sure to check back with us a little later in the week for some more finale scoop from Adam and Eddy!

Of course Rumple would make himself an Ogre Slayer.

 

Some fans are comparing this outfit to this outfit. But, if Emma is Flynn Rider, that means that Hook is Rapunzel?

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Well, he does have luscious hair.

 

I wouldn't mind if that's the case though. Aside from the 10 seconds in the back of Granny's, we really haven't seen Emma fight for Hook yet, have we?

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Emma's outfit has something from everyone she loves.

 

The shirt is like Hook's with the flowers, one of her earrings looks like arrow tips, her gloves are hooks/swans, her belt has buttercups on it, her vest looks like one either David or Hook would wear, hers had the added bonus of being textured like a crocodile skin.

 

The only thing I'm wondering about with those BTS is whether Emma is dueling Rumple or taking lessons from him.  

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The only thing I'm wondering about with those BTS is whether Emma is dueling Rumple or taking lessons from him.

I would guess she's dueling him seeing as how she's later unconscious in the background of that same scene:

 

Emma is unconscious in one pic. Also, the detail on her glove is both a swan and a hook.

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If Everyone knows about the fairies, they should already also know about the apprentice. it would make NO sense for Killy to spill about the fairies and not the apprentice. If that's the case then I can already hear the rabid Hook haters ready to use this as another excuse for why Hook's more evil than Satan himself. And that's something I really don't need.

 

It would be a retcon if they claim that Hook did not tell anybody about the old guy ((not that this show doesn't do that). There was this line in 4x13 from Belle to Hook:

Belle: And once we get the fairies out of the hat, they can help us release everyone else, including that poor old man that you put in there.

 

So, he has at least told Belle. Plus, they had some info about the old man on their research board.

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Now I have an image of Colin playing the guitar while waiting around to deliver his one line.

 

Once has to have some of the most well-rested supporting regulars in TV. 

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It's plausible to me that this season will end with a TLK from Belle reverting him to his pre-Dark One personality for 5a or beyond, simply because it would take him out of the main action for a while. That doesn't preclude him being re-Dark'ed in 5b as a way to, for instance, un-Dark Emma, if that's the way the story goes.

 

I read that as the Costuming department being better writers than the writers - since all of these are false/alternate personas, Rumpel and Snow should look a little out of place in outfits that relate to personas that don't fit them. (They did this in the flashback in 'Manhattan' as well - Rumpel's soldier uniform was practically swallowing him, while everyone around him looked relatively tailored.)

 

A&E also said that it's going to be a moment similar to bringing magic to Storybrooke--a "What now?" kind of moment.

 

If they deDark One Rumple, and make him the original recipe Rumple?  That would be a "What now?" moment, particularly if they make someone else possibly the new Dark One.

 

Would original recipe Rumple remember all his cursed years?  Because this doesn't sound like it's a regular curse-breaking, and the original Rumple would be a very different character than Machiavellian Planner Rumple.

 

Haven't they paid enough already? Will they finally be relieved of their egg baby guilt when Emma sacrifices herself and they're forced to lose their daughter for a third time?

 

No.  They must pay and pay and pay.  It might allow their "screwed over" tally marks to equal Regina's, finally.  Poor Regina shouldn't have to suffer being screwed over alone.

 

Spoilers from one of the people who was around watching finale filming. Confirms very little CS. 13+ characters??? Jesus wept! It's going to be like 4x11 in the rushed department. I'm quite certain the CS emotional revelation and "payoff" will be every bit as rushed and underwhelming as the "payoff" to the Hook's heart arc. Much more important to see the Author in his TV gig.

When planning your season, it's really important to carefully budget your time.  Why allow time for petty things like putting someone's heart back, or reconciliation between feuding Charmings/Emma, when you have really important revelations like why Regina can't have biological children or that Regina once made out (a little) with the Sheriff of Nottingham, or that Robin knew Zelena back in the day but never shared it? 

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A straight up swap is less fun. Did they run out of money? They can't make new costumes?

 

My guess is Emma is unaffected by the "swap" or  Emma and Lily swapped making Lily, Snowing's kid and Emma is Mal's. Snowing's kid would now be the evil one and Mal's is the light one. Didn't Agnes post a picture of her in the finale in a black outfit that looks like evil Charming's?

 

Also why the hell did they use the title "Heroes and villains" for the end of 4A instead of here?

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Also why the hell did they use the title "Heroes and villains" for the end of 4A instead of here?

And considering that this is all presumably a bad thing to happen that must be corrected, isn't it weird to call it "Operation Mongoose"? Isn't that pretty much saying that this entire plot thread that stretches back to early in the season and that just about all the good guys endorsed as a great idea was actually a really, really bad idea with terrible consequences?

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My guess is Emma is unaffected by the "swap" or  Emma and Lily swapped making Lily, Snowing's kid and Emma is Mal's. Snowing's kid would now be the evil one and Mal's is the light one. Didn't Agnes post a picture of her in the finale in a black outfit that looks like evil Charming's?

 

I totally forgot about Lily. I suppose channeling all of her darkness into Emma is probably what eventually drives Emma insane in the tower.

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And considering that this is all presumably a bad thing to happen that must be corrected, isn't it weird to call it "Operation Mongoose"?
Yes! Operation Mongoose was Regina and Henry's plan to find the Author and ask for Regina's happy ending. What's going on in the AU is Rumple's plot to switch the heroes and villains. Henry is still going to be the main protagonist, but Regina's just one of the AU swapped characters. It has nothing to do with Operation Mongoose.
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But all of this is on par with the show where another character comes in and hijacks the story.  I don't know what kind of squirrels are running around in Rumple's head, but I think I might be scarred after this.

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I suppose channeling all of her darkness into Emma is probably what eventually drives Emma insane in the tower.

 

I'm almost positive that crazy shot is post dagger and the reason she looks so crazy is Rump's Darkness. It'd be a redux of Rump adsorbing Neal and went crazy.

 

I think Lily still has all the darkness, she's just now Snow's kid. Emma's blue vest outfit is the main AU stuff and she looks pretty normal. Maybe since her "darkness" is being used to write the AU she's unaffected. Which would make the obvious solution be using her normal light blood to un-rewrite the AU.

 

The thing that sucks the most about the swap is that they literally could've written any crazy thing they wanted to and really have fun with it, with some wackadoodle characters in a random wackadoodle world. Instead it looks like they got lazy and just dusted off old scripts and gave them to different actors. This way they don't have to come up with any new stories. Still the same old Woegina vs Snow crap. Literally. It's the height of laziness or uncreativity or both.

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I'm almost positive that crazy shot is post dagger and the reason she looks so crazy is Rump's Darkness. It'd be a redux of Rump adsorbing Neal and went crazy.

I'm wondering if this occurs at the end of the episode and not in the EF portion. Though, it would seem weird that they would spoil that in a promo if that's the case.

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Yea, that's why I think it's not her breaking bad after she takes the dagger. To spoil such a major scene not only in the preview but also have the music director post a photo of it on Twitter weeks before hand seems a bit odd. The only way I can see that scene fitting with the dagger scene is if they start the episode with that scene and then flash back to tell the rest of the two-hour show, which seems kind of strange.

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Yea, that's why I think it's not her breaking bad after she takes the dagger. To spoil such a major scene not only in the preview but also have the music director post a photo of it on Twitter weeks before hand seems a bit odd. 

 

Yeah, I can't see them spoiling it like that, either, which is why I figure it's part of the AU. My theory is that there's all the AU stuff, Emma & Regina wake up in the street after it's all been fixed, there's a day of calm (hence the different clothes), then the dagger stuff. Then a gathering at Granny's to "mourn" Emma, then perhaps a final scene showing Emma wherever/whatever she is.

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I think it's funny how different people have different interpretations of Emma's outfit. Some CSers think she's dressed like a pirate, some SQers think she's dressed like Charming, and since Regina is dressed like Snow, that means they're in love. Now some Tangled fans think she's dressed like Flynn. Personally I just think she's dressed like a fighting woodsman, and looks awesome!

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I'm wondering if this occurs at the end of the episode and not in the EF portion. Though, it would seem weird that they would spoil that in a promo if that's the case.

Well out of context it's not really a spoiler. In the promo it just makes it seem like Snow and co. turned evil from the rewrite and the baddies are now good. Emma looking like a crazy duck fits that one selling point better than normal looking Emma in the EF.

Besides I don't think what happens to Emma is the big event anyway. I think her sucking up Rump's darkness screws up something else that affects everyone else. Cause we all know Emma isn't allowed to ever do anything useful or smart since she's not the Mary Sue in this fanfic. She only destroys lives people! Maybe trying to suck up Rump's darkness sucks up all the darkness in town period. 5A is everyone stuck in a Pleasantville like existence and thats the changed "condition." And the moral of the story of course is that Evil is necessary and a good fun thing to have around! Except for the Charmings' brand of evil. Their kind of evil is the bad kind, like egg stealing and telling truths, and the only kind deserving of punishment.

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What's going on in the AU is Rumple's plot to switch the heroes and villains. Henry is still going to be the main protagonist, but Regina's just one of the AU swapped characters. It has nothing to do with Operation Mongoose.

It's kind of the spawn of Operation Mongoose because it wouldn't have happened without Operation Mongoose. If everyone else had just said, "Duh, Regina, you make your own happy ending," when she first brought up the finding the author idea, none of this would be happening. She was the one who gave Rumple the idea, then it was the investigating and interrogating child Pinocchio that led to finding the page with the door, and then it was the fear of Regina not getting her happy ending that kept Snow from burning the page, and then Regina got the blood from Lily to use as ink, and that's why we now have the Author with ink rewriting things. These are all consequences of Operation Mongoose. That's why I'm surprised that they're using that for the title, since I doubt it will be mentioned onscreen that this is happening because everyone fell into the insanity black hole with Regina and that this is the outcome of a really, really dumb plan that everyone bought into.

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Rump's plan is to get himself, a villain, a happy ending through author magic sorcery. It had nothing to do with switching people. That's never been his goal. How it ends up being so? No clue.

So Rump's plan is OM. The OM plan was to get the author to magically write a "villain" slash biggest victim, a happy ending because the 2 original morons thought villains were written to never be able to have one. Rump just hijacked the exact same plan for himself cause Idiot 1 told him her plan. He didn't change anything except for the WHO, the author is mainly writing for. It's kind of appropriate. Woegina cast the Dark Curse for Rump and she did most of the work for Rump here too.

The only reason I thought "Heroes and Villains" would be the better title here is because that's the title of new book. The Once Twitter also changed its name to it. They're using that phrase-book title as a marketing tool so common sense tells me it should've been the episode title too.

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Rump's plan is to get himself, a villain, a happy ending through author magic sorcery. It had nothing to do with switching people. That's never been his goal.
What we were told early on in 4B is that Rumple's plan was to use the author to switch things so that heroes get unhappy endings and villains get happy endings. Supposedly this was why he needed the Savior to go dark, although we now learn that it was because the Savior's darkness created the magic ink. I kind of consider that a retcon, but I don't remember Ursula's exact words so it's possible that things were ambiguous enough that I assumed more than I should have.

 

She was the one who gave Rumple the idea, then it was the investigating and interrogating child Pinocchio that led to finding the page with the door, and then it was the fear of Regina not getting her happy ending that kept Snow from burning the page, and then Regina got the blood from Lily to use as ink, and that's why we now have the Author with ink rewriting things.
Regina mentioned the idea to Rumple, but not in a direct "here's something you should do" kind of way. Rumple came up with interrogating Pinocchio/August all on his own and August revealed the existence of the page during that interrogation. Snow didn't burn the page because of Henry as much as Regina (I think more... it was lying to Henry that would have paralleled lying to Emma). Regina did get the ink, but the Author is the one who decided to use it for Rumple with zero influence from Regina.
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(edited)

I wouldn't say Emma loves Regina more than Hook (or Henry), though she has been more fixated on Regina's happiness than anyone else's of late. I guess this act is supposed to "prove" her friendship to Regina or something like that. Unless Regina's victims risk everything, including their lives, to assist Regina, they will not be considered heroes. Snow did that with the failsafe in S2 (incidentally, she endangered the lives of everyone to save Regina in that instance). 

 

Why couldn't it have been Regina proving her friendship for Emma, in apology for having been such an unappreciative bitch to her? They could say that the Dagger goes after the one with the "greatest potential for darkness" BS again to explain why Emma was targeted. And Regina would get to be the biggest hero to ever hero yet again! We'll have to see how it plays out. I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that it won't be all about Regina. :-p

Edited by Rumsy4
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What we were told early on in 4B is that Rumple's plan was to use the author to switch things so that heroes get unhappy endings and villains get happy endings.

No. "Switch" and "heroes get unhappy endings" were words never said anywhere onscreen about Rump's plan, either by himself or the QoD. Because it was never his plan. His only plan has always been to get the author to rewite a happy ending for villain(s) which is exactly what OM is. What happens as a by-product, happens but it was never his direct plan. Ursula told Hook that for Rump to get the author to write a happy ending for villains, Emma needed to go dark because otherwise the author couldn't rewrite anything.

 

 

Regina did get the ink, but the Author is the one who decided to use it for Rumple with zero influence from Regina.

 

And she's the moron who left the ink with the Author and let him walk around town all free and clear knowing Rump was out there wanting to get the author. It's a direct consequence of her actions. You know something Ms. Hypocritical-Self-Righteous Holier-than-thou-I'm-the-only-one-allowed-to-be-a-victim, should think about considering she loves to go around lecturing others and pointing fingers.

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(edited)

EDIT: some new pics from the dagger scene here. Emma is definitely taking Regina's place. I guess she loves Regina more than she loves Hook. I'm so gonna hate the finale.

 

I don't know if Emma loves Regina more than Hook, but the writers sure do love the Emma/Regina "friendship" more than Emma/Hook right now. I did a little math experiment, and (I'm not joking, I actually did this because apparently I have no life) I counted the amount of screen time that was dedicated to Emma and Hook actually talking together one-on-one, and it amounted to approximately 10 minutes of screen time in 4B thus far. So, if every episode is approximately 43 minutes long, that means any significant conversation Emma/Hook got to have in 4B took up less than 3% of the entire arc. Basically, Emma and Hook interacted more in the 3B finale than they have in the past 9 episodes this spring. Yeah.

 

Unfortunately, this entire 4B arc has been all about Emma and Regina, so even though it makes me angry, the writers are at least following through with the relationship they've been spending the most time with. I don't like it, but that's what they've set up this half season so I have to accept it. I think what I'll be most bitter about is Emma dramatically telling Hook she loves him right before she sacrifices herself with the dagger, yet they've shared less than 10 minutes of screen time alone together this entire back half. It'll be hard to get emotional over that when there's barely been any build-up with their relationship. Sure, Colin and Jen will knock it out of the park with their acting, but it's hard to be emotionally invested in a goodbye scene when that couple didn't even get that many important scenes together in the past 4 months.

 

(I'm debating posting my statistical screen time findings in another thread, but I'm not sure just how much I want to out myself as a crazy fangirl...)

Edited by Curio
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(edited)

My only hope is that Regina is just the first one that the Dark One energy targets and it's clear it would've then gone after everyone else.

That's what I'm thinking will happen as well. Either Emma takes Regina's place to protect everyone, or she somehow has enough light magic to offset whatever darkness comes with being the Dark One. Perhaps the AU proves she had light magic with or without what her parents did to Lily or the kiss with Hook isn't a TLK but somehow manifests her lightness because of her love for him. Hell, maybe the dagger would go after all the villains and Emma actually does this to protect Hook first and foremost.

 

Also, it seems based on what we've heard about this scene that the dagger is choosing Regina for some reason -- her darkness perhaps. But attaching herself to the dagger instead is a choice Emma makes -- so we could be going with another choice vs. fate theme here.

 

And of course, if this is how it all goes down, I'm actually looking forward to how the Charmings and Hook react to Regina knowing that she is the reason Emma is gone. There could be some good drama there.

 

I'm sort of concerned about all this because TS,TW but I'm not too worried about it.

 

ETA: Out yourself as a crazy fangirl, Curio! And while I see your point about Captain Swan's screen time, I'm not too surprised or disappointed in it. This whole half season has just been one "meh" after another. I'm looking forward to finale next week because just based on what we know, it's going to be better than any other episode in 4B by alot. So maybe it's a good thing we were Captain Swan light in 4B so they aren't associated with this mess. Doing a quick glance at the ratings, the top three episodes this half season were the first two and the Hook-centric. Maybe the writers can think about that a little more during this summer hiatus when they start working on the fall season.

Edited by sharky
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