Aaron Hotchner: High and Tight

[Mysteyman]

It wasn't TG's fault.

His darn foot was accidentally in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's basically what he said.

[BW Manilowe]

11 minutes ago, Franky said:

Hmm.

Thanks for sharing that, BW Manilowe!

You're welcome. I notice other entertainment news sources are also posting at least similar headlines on their Twitters, since I posted the People link. But I assume they're just quoting that & not providing additional info, so I won't bother (for now, at least/unless I find out differently) to post those links.

[Picture It. Sicily]

So Virgil walked into his foot? Like women with black eyes walk into doors? Don't talk Thomas, you're making it worse.

[Willowy]

I was hoping he'd own up to it, but he's still whinging about being wronged, for pete's sake!

[Bookish Jen]

8 minutes ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

So Virgil walked into his foot? Like women with black eyes walk into doors? Don't talk Thomas, you're making it worse.

Or when Hotch accidentally walked into Foyet's knife.

[MaliceMisel]

1 hour ago, Mysteyman said:

It wasn't TG's fault.

His darn foot was accidentally in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's basically what he said.

One comment on the article was on point.

yadayada said

"please explain how he made you kick him. Reminds me of something....Oh yeah, "Officer I didn't hit her. Her face ran into my fist." Total accident. Had her face not "accidentally" come in contact, her face would have been fine."

This is how normal people feel toward TG's excuse.

[Lebanna]

I'm pretty sure that if it had clearly been an accident, where one person barged into another and accidentally caught their foot with their leg... someone would have said something. I mean, this supposedly happened in front of lots of cast and crew, right? But seemingly everyone actually just winced, looked away and didn't say anything to contradict the producer's story. So, yeah. Not really buying this. It's a nice thought, but, no.

[smoker]

I've already said everything I wanted to say about the incident and the dismissal.

However, I do think that it would be in his best interest keep his mouth shut.

 

 

*These are two different matters IMO.  I am leaving space in the same post because sometimes my comments have been merged into one.

 

Obviously, Hotch is being erased from CM prematurely. That didn't happen to MP until the first episode without Gideon (I can't remember when LG was taken off of the credits, sorry). Their attitude towards the character is tasteless.

Edited September 22, 2016 by smoker

[MaliceMisel]

9 minutes ago, smoker said:

Obviously, Hotch is being erased from CM prematurely. That didn't happen to MP until the first episode without Gideon 

MP didn't kick anyone, that's why he wasn't erased so soon. Just my opinion.

Edited September 22, 2016 by MaliceMisel

[Lebanna]

I do think it doesn't make sense to ignore Hotch. After all, he's been a huge part of the show for so long, and the character didn't do anything wrong (you know what I mean). But equally, there will be some people out there who haven't heard about what happened, and to have the actor and character prominently featured in the press for the show doesn't make sense when he's not going to be in the show for more than two more hours. So it's really best to try to get the viewers excited about the new, Hotchless reality. Even if that reality makes me really sad.

[senin]

I have been trying to write my opinion/feelings for at least one hour and couldn't. But you can always trust that someone else in  the forrum  will do it for you!!

Two sentences in the article really got my attention, especially the second one : 

"I feel like it took years to make a good reputation and a minute to damage it," 

"It seems like they're trying to erase me from the show. That hurts."

If it is hurting me as a fan, I can only try to  imagine how the person who gave life to the character for so long feels. 

 

Note: re-read before posting and I don't think it's very clear,, but I can't find a better way to express my thoughts, sorry!

[smoker]

27 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

I do think it doesn't make sense to ignore Hotch. After all, he's been a huge part of the show for so long, and the character didn't do anything wrong (you know what I mean). But equally, there will be some people out there who haven't heard about what happened, and to have the actor and character prominently featured in the press for the show doesn't make sense when he's not going to be in the show for more than two more hours. So it's really best to try to get the viewers excited about the new, Hotchless reality. Even if that reality makes me really sad.

to be fair none but JJ and the newbie were in the last promotional pictures.  It's the promo what makes my eyes roll back, you can tell they wanted any sign of Hotch gone. I understand a minor presence is necessary, but not even a glimpse...

Edited September 22, 2016 by smoker

[Droogie]

38 minutes ago, senin said:

Two sentences in the article really got my attention, especially the second one : 

"I feel like it took years to make a good reputation and a minute to damage it," 

"It seems like they're trying to erase me from the show. That hurts."

If it is hurting me as a fan, I can only try to  imagine how the person who gave life to the character for so long feels. 

Me too, Senin.  I was really touched by those two statements, as well.  

People have already made up their minds about how the incident happened and whether the ultimate punishment was just, so nothing he says, and certainly nothing I say, is going to change that.  

As long as there is Spencer Reid, I am going to watch, at least parts of the show.  And I hope Thomas Gibson finds another showcase for his talent, sooner rather than later.  I'm gonna miss Hotch something fierce, and I can't conceive of any feat of writing that is going to make his absence acceptable for me.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Droogie

[thewhiteowl]

I can't blame the writers for this. I blame TG's foot. Apparently it has a mind of it's own and not only kicks people but inserts itself in his mouth. 

Whatever the writers have to do, this is not on them. TG is the one that's done this to Hotch. JMO

[Willowy]

1 minute ago, thewhiteowl said:

I can't blame the writers for this. I blame TG's foot. Apparently it has a mind of it's own and not only kicks people but inserts itself in his mouth. 

Whatever the writers have to do, this is not on them. TG is the one that's done this to Hotch. JMO

Bra-VO! Co-signed and seconded all over the place!

[smoker]

6 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

I can't blame the writers for this. I blame TG's foot. Apparently it has a mind of it's own and not only kicks people but inserts itself in his mouth. 

Whatever the writers have to do, this is not on them. TG is the one that's done this to Hotch. JMO

I respectfully disagree.

TG has done a damage to his career. 

Whatever happens to Hotch, it's not written or authorized by TG.

[thewhiteowl]

TG authorized it when he kicked a writer. IMO

[Bookish Jen]

The next time I need to stave off a mugger, I will not use a gun, knife, taser or pepper spray; I will use TG's kicking leg for it is quite a weapon.

[Willowy]

1 minute ago, Bookish Jen said:

The next time I need to stave off a mugger, I will not use a gun, knife, taser or pepper spray; I will use TG's kicking leg for it is quite a weapon.

HAHA, it can cause people to magically run into it, all by itself! 

[secnarf]

My reaction upon reading that was just...wtf this doesn't even make sense. Like, I cannot even picture what he was attempting to describe. At least, not in any way that doesn't have the kick intentional or at the very least reflexive. I have reflexively kicked people before (as anyone who has tried to tickle me is well aware), so I could maybe buy that. After his explanation, and not having been there myself, I am maybe a bit more likely to believe that he was the instigator than I was beforehand, but it hasn't really changed much for me.

One thing I really didn't get though - the kick happened, they "exchanged words" or however TG put it, and then he went home and was never allowed to come back but he apologized the next day. So, it sounds like he apologized after he was suspended, and certainly not before they finished shooting for the day.

I will be looking out for a bit of dialogue in the second episode that contradicts something earlier on...unless they ended up cutting it after all.

[MaliceMisel]

Whatever really happened,

the line "my foot came up and tapped him on the leg" gets me.

The lamest excuse ever.

I will miss Hotch, but I've never known Mr.Gibson is really this dumb.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

TG authorized it when he kicked a writer. IMO

Truth. Personal responsibility. Ain't it a bitch?

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I can't blame the writers for this. I blame TG's foot. Apparently it has a mind of it's own and not only kicks people but inserts itself in his mouth. 

Whatever the writers have to do, this is not on them. TG is the one that's done this to Hotch. JMO

As before, I think cause and effect comes into play, and it falls on Gibson's shoulders. Argue and scream at a coworker? Still unprofessional, but we've all likely been there. So, fine. Nine times out of ten, we'd likely still have a job provided we cool off and apologize.

But then comes physical assault. That just leads to two little words, whether one prefers "BUH-BYE" (said in best David Spade as Bastard Airlines steward on SNL) or a simple "You're fired!" Hence, cause and effect: You assault someone, you get tossed out.

Still, in the end, Gibson's inability to not use physical means in an argument means he is the one who has made the writers' job harder, since he put himself in the position to be fired, meaning the scripts had to undergo likely fast revisions.

Actually, in all this, writing it out, it is those writers I have sympathy for. I can't imagine the rest of their summer before the show's season premiere was all that relaxing...

[Willowy]

53 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

As before, I think cause and effect comes into play, and it falls on Gibson's shoulders. Argue and scream at a coworker? Still unprofessional, but we've all likely been there. So, fine. Nine times out of ten, we'd likely still have a job provided we cool off and apologize.

But then comes physical assault. That just leads to two little words, whether one prefers "BUH-BYE" (said in best David Spade as Bastard Airlines steward on SNL) or a simple "You're fired!" Hence, cause and effect: You assault someone, you get tossed out.

Still, in the end, Gibson's inability to not use physical means in an argument means he is the one who has made the writers' job harder, since he put himself in the position to be fired, meaning the scripts had to undergo likely fast revisions.

Actually, in all this, writing it out, it is those writers I have sympathy for. I can't imagine the rest of their summer before the show's season premiere was all that relaxing...

Are you me? :)

[WendyCR72]

36 minutes ago, Franky said:

Are you me? :)

Or maybe you're me. Or one of us is the Walrus.  (Viva Beatles song references!)  ;-)

[Willowy]

Koo koo ka choo? :D

[Cobalt Stargazer]

14 hours ago, smoker said:

Obviously, Hotch is being erased from CM prematurely. That didn't happen to MP until the first episode without Gideon (I can't remember when LG was taken off of the credits, sorry). Their attitude towards the character is tasteless.

So it really is Shannen Doherty all over again. Awesome.[/s]

[zannej]

The only reason Gideon got as much screen time after Mandy chose to leave is because they had previously filmed footage from season 2. Pretty much the entire "Doubt" episode was filmed for season 2 but they chose not to air it because of some incident in the news and they felt it would be bad timing-- so they shelved it.

Something to keep in mind about witness statements and such is that memory is far from accurate. There have been numerous studies that showed how people's memories become corrupted very easily (and are especially vulnerable to suggestion). Even simple words can trigger people to remember things differently.

I'm having a hell of a time typing right now with one of my cats getting in the way... Anyway, I don't necessarily think TG is lying. He may just remember the incident the way he described. Just as Mandy seemed to remember CM as being a lot more vile than it actually was (especially considering his current show seems more violent). Likewise, the other people who were there might not have seen the entire thing or were exposed to Virgil's version (because it seems he had more access to them after the fact) and / or they just perceived it differently than TG did. He might have felt that Virgil was going to run in to him, but the others might not have thought so. And I could sort of see him having his foot up as he was moving and Virgil might not have seen it. One alleged account described it as looking like TG tried to trip Virgil. Without knowing what TG was thinking, it is hard to know if it was intentional or not-- but it seems like other people thought that it was. And I do give a little side-eye about is foot just tapping. I suspect he downplayed that a little. Sort of like when cops write that they "escorted <arrestee> to the prone position" to describe slamming someone to the ground.

Really, one has to look no further than arguments online to see what happens when a person thinks they are being "attacked" or feel victimized when they were the aggressor. But their perception was that they were not. It has happened on this very site. And the bystanders don't always agree who was in the wrong.

I haven't seen the video, but there was a woman who was interviewed who claimed to have been on the set the day of the incident and that it was after the incident happened but nobody talked about it and it was business as usual. So, it sounds like it happened and TG didn't think it was a big deal. I don't know if he apologized at work or on the phone or in e-mail-- but the apology may have been for what was said in the argument.

I'm now curious about what Virgil would say if he could give his side. Maybe the report was made before the apology and things were set in motion and couldn't be halted.

I do think the ball is in the writers' court  in terms of handling the exit.

[Bookish Jen]

12 hours ago, MaliceMisel said:

Whatever really happened,

the line "my foot came up and tapped him on the leg" gets me.

The lamest excuse ever.

I will miss Hotch, but I've never known Mr.Gibson is really this dumb.

Yep, this is like a rapist saying, "My penis accidentally fell into her vagina."

And you're right. Mr. Gibson is dumb, Ryan Lochte levels of dumb.

6 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So it really is Shannen Doherty all over again. Awesome.[/s]

Raise your hand if you bought the "I Hate Brenda" newsletter. Booky raises right hand.

Luckily, I've matured since then. I have nothing but compassion for Ms. Doherty, especially considering she is battling cancer.

[BW Manilowe]

More from Thomas' interview in the new issue of People: He might do things differently but denies fault for the CM set drama & (his) DUI.

http://www.people.com/article/thomas-gibson-shares-his-side-criminal-minds-firing-shemar-moore-tension-dui?xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag

I forgot to add: There's a point where it looks like that's the end of the article (this part of it?)--it says, "for more... buy this week's People, on newsstands Saturday", or something similar--followed by a picture of the cover of the new issue. There's more of the article below that, so keep reading.

Edited September 23, 2016 by BW Manilowe
To add more information.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Yep, this is like a rapist saying, "My penis accidentally fell into her vagina."

And you're right. Mr. Gibson is dumb, Ryan Lochte levels of dumb.

Well....

Booky, you know I usually agree with you, at least in spirit, but I don't think its fair to take it that far. Yes, it was dumb for TG to say that his foot 'tapped' Williams' knee, but IMO it isn't anywhere near the same level of dumb it'd be to say that second thing.

[Bookish Jen]

Just now, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Well....

Booky, you know I usually agree with you, at least in spirit, but I don't think its fair to take it that far. Yes, it was dumb for TG to say that his foot 'tapped' Williams' knee, but IMO it isn't anywhere near the same level of dumb it'd be to say that second thing.

Well, you're probably right. I'm sure TG is smart most of the time, but he had a Ryan Lochte moment in the interview, or what might commonly known as a "brain fart."

[normasm]

It's also possible it happened exactly as he said. We don't know.

[Bookish Jen]

Just now, normasm said:

It's also possible it happened exactly as he said. We don't know.

That's right. We weren't there. And I'm sure everyone on the CM set is being told to keep their mouths shut on "Kickgate." 

And maybe TG is being advised by his publicist to say what he said in the People article, who knows?

[Willowy]

It did not happen as Thomas said. Not one witness came forward to say that he didn't do it during the entire investigation. 

An insignifigant 'brush' against the leg would NOT have warranted a suspension, followed by a 2 week investigation conducted by HR where all the witnesses were thoroughly questioned, followed by Thomas getting fired.

Watching his weak attempts at deflecting culpability, his continued beyond the pale weaseling out of any responsibility for reparation is gut-wrenching. I'm a Hotch fan forever, but after all these shenanigans I'm no longer a TG fan. FAIL.

[Bookish Jen]

2 minutes ago, Franky said:

It did not happen as Thomas said. Not one witness came forward to say that he didn't do it during the entire investigation. 

An insignifigant 'brush' against the leg would NOT have warranted a suspension, followed by a 2 week investigation conducted by HR where all the witnesses were thoroughly questioned, followed by Thomas getting fired.

Watching his weak attempts at deflecting culpability, his continued beyond the pale weaseling out of any responsibility for reparation is gut-wrenching. I'm a Hotch fan forever, but after all these shenanigans I'm no longer a TG fan. FAIL.

I'm a Hotch fan for sure, but TG has seriously lost Brownie Points with me. He needs to grow up and own up to what he did. I know he's hit some rough patches in the past few years but a lot of it is his own doing. 

[JMO]

These are the things I've read about what happened, as stated by the actual entities involved:

• There was a disagreement between Thomas and Virgil over possibly conflicting dialogue.
• A contact (foot to leg) occurred between Thomas and Virgil, of unclear (to me) intent, followed by ‘choice words’ between the two men.
• An apology was issued from Thomas to Virgil, whether for the contact or the words, I don’t know, as he wasn’t specific.  Actually, all he said was that he apologized.  I don’t know if it was to Virgil or to the cast and crew who were present and/or affected.
• A suspension was imposed by CBS. 
• Two weeks later, Thomas was fired by CBS and ABC acting jointly, and for which they gave no explanation.

I've read a lot of supposition here, and elsewhere, and engaged in some of my own, none of it more worthy than others.  The only thing I know about what people claim to 'know', apart from the above, is that they couldn't possibly.  

Are there any other original source materials out there?  By which I mean from Thomas, Virgil, a verifiable, identified-by-name witness or any of the legal entities involved (Thomas' law firm, CBS, ABC).  I'd be interested to read them.

[MaliceMisel]

I hardly believe some comments on People.They blame police for arresting him.They are saying that cops overreacted. Are they serious?

Wow. So for them, since he was the sweetest guy ever, all the rumours about his anger issues must be wrong and the results of "overreactions by cops and his coworkers".

I really despise all of them and Gibson himself. After all, now it's obvious that he has never reflected on his action. It's always anyone but him to be blame on anything he is accused of.

I used to like him as Greg. But now I'm done with him. Besides I heard the rumour that Dharma/Jenna Elfman said TG was a difficult actor to work with, or something like that?  I'm really done with him. Well, my only love is Matthew, so really whatever.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It's so nice that we've gotten past all that silly nonsense about how the network is always wrong to fire people. Someone mentioned upthread that fewer people would be defending what happened if AJ Cook had done this, but I'm pretty sure that's not true. I've still got the burn scars from the flames that exploded out of my laptop when Cook and Brewster were fired, and we still don't really know what went down there either, except that CBS must stand for Craven Bastards. But any defense of Gibson means "excusing" his actions? Yay for evolution, I guess.

[MaliceMisel]

2 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It's so nice that we've gotten past all that silly nonsense about how the network is always wrong to fire people. Someone mentioned upthread that fewer people would be defending what happened if AJ Cook had done this, but I'm pretty sure that's not true. I've still got the burn scars from the flames that exploded out of my laptop when Cook and Brewster were fired, and we still don't really know what went down there either, except that CBS must stand for Craven Bastards. But any defense of Gibson means "excusing" his actions? Yay for evolution, I guess.

Had AJ and Paget had any rumours of anger issues before they were fired? I've never heard of any, but were there? 

[ReidFan]

*facepalm*

[JMO]

MaliceMisel, you keep alluding to 'rumors'.  I truly don't understand the reasoning behind founding a strong opinion on a rumor that you can't know to be true. Is there one?

I don't know what kind of person Thomas Gibson is any more than anyone else who's posted here.  But I do know that his 'DUI', wasn't charged as such.  And I know, because I watched the video, and listened to the audio, that there was no wrestling to the ground.  And I heard him say, several times, "I'm not resisting," with speech that was neither slurred nor shouted, followed by, "That's my garage, right there." Again, source material.

[MaliceMisel]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

MaliceMisel, you keep alluding to 'rumors'.  I truly don't understand the reasoning behind founding a strong opinion on a rumor that you can't know to be true. Is there one?

I don't know what kind of person Thomas Gibson is any more than anyone else who's posted here.  But I do know that his 'DUI', wasn't charged as such.  And I know, because I watched the video, and listened to the audio, that there was no wrestling to the ground.  And I heard him say, several times, "I'm not resisting," with speech that was neither slurred nor shouted, followed by, "That's my garage, right there." Again, source material.

Well, I'm not talking only about DUI. He was free from one accusation doesn't mean he was innocent with anything.

Where there's smoke, there's fire, that's what I'm talking about. And what I'm pissed is his excusing for "everything".

Shemar had DUI history, and I bet many other actors have. So tbh, DUI itself doesn't seem to be a big deal for me. It's not just a DUI he has. That's a problem.

[JMO]

I guess the point I would make is that the 'smoke' wasn't 'smoke'.  So why think about fire?

[smoker]

18 hours ago, MaliceMisel said:

Had AJ and Paget had any rumours of anger issues before they were fired? I've never heard of any, but were there? 

I guess they didn't MaliceMisel, I never read anything about anger issues related to their firing.

But I remember the comment Cobalt is refering "fewer people would be defending what happened if AJ Cook had done this".

 

I've never read anything about the 'less than ideal' enviroment they had either. There are many rumours about the cast of Friends not being so friendly after all. It seems there are lot of similarities between Kelsey Grammer and TG (their interaction with the rest of the cast). Recently, Jennifer Esposito's pretty vocal about her dismissal. Jorja Fox and George Eads,...

I am aware there are different motives behind every case, not trying to compare them and I am sure all of us could add some names to the list. My point is that most of the times programs and shows are sold as wonderful inside out and when something bad happens is surprising.

Edited September 24, 2016 by smoker

[BW Manilowe]

More from People magazine: Thomas talks about his divorce.

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,21031662,00.html?xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag

[thewhiteowl]

Let us please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion here. No matter how they came by it. 

Be respectful of other posters or be gone. 

[zannej]

On the DUI thing, I saw posters responding on the People website and asking why someone would refuse to do a breathalyzer test. Some refuse because it is possible for the cops to do something wrong to skew the results to make it look like the person has a higher alcohol level than they really do. It is not a perfect test. Also, it was after 1am and I suspect TG was tired. It is also possible that he thought he might fail the test-- but, in many places, refusal to take the test is seen as admission of guilt. His account of what happened was not quite accurate though. No field sobriety test was captured on film so if it happened, it was prior to the bike cops showing up. At the time they showed up, he was being told "Turn around" by the cop and he was shouting "WHY?" in an angry/exasperated tone. First bike cop on scene jumped off her bike and charged over and started shouting at him to "Get on the ground" while the other cop continued to say "Turn around". That would confuse eve a sober person.

As for this "kickgate" incident, either he is deliberately downplaying it to deflect guilt or he may have told himself it happened that way so many times that he now believes it. He might remember it that way. But, he never would never have been fired if witnesses didn't say it looked like he deliberately kicked Virgil.

Interesting that he said the divorce was finalized last year when there was recent information about another filing that indicates the divorce has not been completed. I've heard it is not as easy to get divorced in Texas though.

Regardless of his personal drama, I still like his acting and I am a fan of Hotch. I just hope they give Hotch a decent exit.

[SSAHotchner]

15 hours ago, zannej said:

On the DUI thing, I saw posters responding on the People website and asking why someone would refuse to do a breathalyzer test. Some refuse because it is possible for the cops to do something wrong to skew the results to make it look like the person has a higher alcohol level than they really do. It is not a perfect test. Also, it was after 1am and I suspect TG was tired. It is also possible that he thought he might fail the test-- but, in many places, refusal to take the test is seen as admission of guilt. His account of what happened was not quite accurate though. No field sobriety test was captured on film so if it happened, it was prior to the bike cops showing up. At the time they showed up, he was being told "Turn around" by the cop and he was shouting "WHY?" in an angry/exasperated tone. First bike cop on scene jumped off her bike and charged over and started shouting at him to "Get on the ground" while the other cop continued to say "Turn around". That would confuse eve a sober person.

As for this "kickgate" incident, either he is deliberately downplaying it to deflect guilt or he may have told himself it happened that way so many times that he now believes it. He might remember it that way. But, he never would never have been fired if witnesses didn't say it looked like he deliberately kicked Virgil.

Interesting that he said the divorce was finalized last year when there was recent information about another filing that indicates the divorce has not been completed. I've heard it is not as easy to get divorced in Texas though.

Regardless of his personal drama, I still like his acting and I am a fan of Hotch. I just hope they give Hotch a decent exit.

I thought the police were overly harsh with him. But when I read your "Get on the ground!" line above it made me think of Elle in Aftermath. 

[senin]

Why?

Why is it that every episode I watch these days seems to be absolutely full of Hotch everywhere??

Just watched "A Place at the Table".(I had already seen it, my son was watching it and, of course, I couldn't avoid joining him)

 The scenes between Hotch and his father-in -law are so... emotional, well acted on both parts,... 

I'm going to miss him sooo much (I have already said this at least a dozen times, sorry)