S01.E11: Skinny Dipper

[shapeshifter]

...Forgot about the second guy - and shame on me, because his death was quite horrific.

Forgetting horrific stuff is probably healthy unless it's something you need to learn to avoid--either IRL or on TV. Thanks for reminding about this so I will remember to be ready to employ my Bones squint when watching this show too (barely peek out through almost closed eyes until the gore is over).

[sonneta]

I agree with everyone that the real Adam wasn't too hard to figure out, though I don't think I really put 2 and 2 together until they were looking for Clark in Bedlam. "Oh, it's the therapist."

 

Ok, Henry knew he was going to find that gun in the water --- why didn't he at least bring a fishing pole or something? Come on, really. Especially since he JUST got The Talk on not skinny dipping anymore, lol.

 

Also, in real life, you can get a different therapist.  I'd expect you can do this even if you're going to "mandated" therapy, because it's so important for you and your therapist to trust each other, and click, so to speak. Hopefully they'll bring this up and Henry will be like, "I have to stay with him, otherwise he might kill again," or some such, and not just ignore it.

 

 

[Eneya]

Yup, I saw it coming with the therapist. Not that long ago we saw Perception in which it was the therapist as well, also, yes... the type casting gave it away. And it was a bit on the nose how... orchestrated the whole thing was. :) Ah, well... :)

[sinkwriter]

Bummer they didn't try to fake us out a little more... I never believed that kid in the psych photo was it, but they could have thrown in a twist or two so that we wondered if the real Adam were the psychiatrist or maybe another character played by a prominent guest actor. With only Burn in the episode, it was definitely suspect. 

 

I still wish I hadn't found out ahead of time; it would have been an interesting surprise - hey, it's Owen from Torchwood! (whom I liked and didn't think of as a bad guy) - and that might have swayed me into thinking he might become simply a recurring guest actor playing someone who challenges Henry, the way Michael Dorn has been on Castle as Beckett's therapist. Plus, I kept waiting for Adrian Pasdar to show up. THEN I figured we'd be seeing the real Adam and it would be 'no surprise there.'

Edited December 12, 2014 by sinkwriter

[blackwing]

It was obvious the psychiatrist was going to be Adam.  I recognised the name in the credits and I agree with the comments that his face is just made to be a villain.  I thought he was a decent villain in "Turn".  (Although I never got into that show all that much, it was kind of a chore to watch.  History Channel is doing their own 6 hour miniseries called "Sons of Liberty" and it already looks way more exciting than "Turn".)

 

I too am wondering what happened with Adrian Pasdar.  The voice of Adam certainly sounded like Adrian Pasdar, and he was credited on IMDB.  I realise that anybody can submit an edit IMDB but if it wasn't legit surely someone from the production team would have it removed.  Maybe Pasdar did the voice?  And then they cast this actor?

 

I was a bit confused by Clark's request to Henry to kill him, but I thought perhaps maybe Henry thought that only an immortal can kill another immortal.

 

Adam as the psychiatrist told Henry that Clark also had a history of skinny dipping.  So presumably the naked in water thing happens to all of them.  Why didn't Adam surface in the East River when he shot himself?

[ApathyMonger]

Bummer they didn't try to fake us out a little more... I never believed that kid in the psych photo was it, but they could have thrown in a twist or two so that we wondered if the real Adam were the psychiatrist or maybe another character played by a prominent guest actor. With only Burn in the episode, it was definitely suspect. 

 

I think it would have worked better if they'd introduced the psychiatrist in a previous episode. No reason that the stuff with Henry's trips into the river couldn't have come up sooner.

[Melgaypet]

I was a bit confused by Clark's request to Henry to kill him, but I thought perhaps maybe Henry thought that only an immortal can kill another immortal.

 

Adam as the psychiatrist told Henry that Clark also had a history of skinny dipping.  So presumably the naked in water thing happens to all of them.  Why didn't Adam surface in the East River when he shot himself?

 

I was confused by Clark's request as well, but in the final phone call Adam told Henry that he (Adam) had convinced Clark that their "condition" can be passed on. Clark thought being killed by Henry would make him become immortal.

 

And I don't think we can presume the resurrecting in the East River does happen to anyone but Henry. Who knows where Adam ends up when he dies. Is the East River where Henry drowned/died of a gunshot wound the first time? Maybe that's what sets the location.

[ApathyMonger]

Is the East River where Henry drowned/died of a gunshot wound the first time? Maybe that's what sets the location.

 

It's not always the East River, it's just the nearest large body of water. The first time, it was the sea (as he was on a boat).

[Jaded Sapphire]

I too am wondering what happened with Adrian Pasdar.  The voice of Adam certainly sounded like Adrian Pasdar, and he was credited on IMDB.  I realise that anybody can submit an edit IMDB but if it wasn't legit surely someone from the production team would have it removed.  Maybe Pasdar did the voice?  And then they cast this actor?

I'm pretty good with voices (it's ruined many a movie twist for me) and I'm convinced that that's what happened. Have a listen to Game of Thrones if you want to hear what Burn's growl actually sounds like, I'm positive he's being dubbed over in that taxi scene. I'd bet money that the actor who played Clark was being dubbed over as well.

 

*Poutier face* And sinkwriter pretty much described my semi-spoiled reaction to Owen! and the lack of Adrian Pasdar. Ironically, knowing that Adrian was the actual voice ended up being enough of a misdirect for me. /more whining

 

As for Adam shooting himself, I'm thinking in the time it took for Henry to continue flying down the road, off the pier, and drown in the car, Adam simply swam off. Remember, he already knew he'd be going in ahead of time. Hell he could've had Clark on standby with a boat and clothes (which would also be an easy way to show Clark that Henry is also immortal).

 

Speaking of which, I think Adam had a much more active role in the whole Clark thing then he ever admitted to. The gun he had came directly from Smithe (the Vivisection/Autopsy victim) so even if he didn't kill him he probably 'helped' Clark with the cuts that made it look like Henry did. Adam also would've (and already has) gained access to Henry's lab more easily than Clark could and he probably also gave Henry's address to Clark and unlocked/locked it for him (Henry does unlock it on the night that Clark is already downstairs).

Edited December 12, 2014 by Jaded Sapphire

[Clanstarling]

In regards to the rules of resurrection, I wonder if what stays with Henry (and perhaps Adam) is something he had on him at the time of his original resurrection (like the scar from the gunshot). Maybe it has to be something metal, or enduring in some way (unlike clothes). I don't recall if he was naked after the first resurrection - and I'm not sure how the watch gets back to him - but it is the one thing he's owned all along.

 

When I saw Burn I knew he had to be Adam, but I kept an open mind and enjoyed the reveal anyway.

 

I thought it was possible, given the Highlander reference, that the only way an immortal could die is by the direct hand of another (not necessarily a beheading). Since Clark wasn't an immortal, that possibility still exists.

 

"Hydrotherapy" was really something they used in asylums back in the days of Bedlam. I'm not sure if it was the same as waterboarding, but as I recall from what I've read, it was generally cold water.

 

The cast is really starting to gel, and I enjoy each episode more than the last.

[dargosmydaddy]

 

I knew it was the shrink as soon as Henry told him he had his friend Abe to talk to and the shrink asked if he had someone closer to his age to talk to. Henry never mentioned Abe's age so that was a huge red flag.

That bugged me because Henry, who is supposed to be so Sherlockian, didn't pick up on it. I mean, I know he was kind of rattled, but he was still showing off observations about the psychiatrist's wife, so I don't buy that he wouldn't instantly say (or at least think), "Hey, I didn't tell you that," when the Abe comment was made.

[theatremouse]

I thought it was possible, given the Highlander reference, that the only way an immortal could die is by the direct hand of another (not necessarily a beheading).

Except that we already know that's not the case in this show because Adam previously slit Henry's throat when they were in that lady's basement before Jo came down the stairs. I think three episodes ago?

[Glory]

It's important to point out that, we cannot definitively say that Adam resurrects the same way that Henry does. So, it's quite possible that Adam never ended up in the water at all. Instead, he could have resurrected in a park, or in a shallow grave, or anything - depending on the way he died. We know that Henry drowned the first time so it's possible that's why he resurrects in water. We do not know how Adam died that first time. 

 

Also, when Henry first met the shrink he did his mojo on him and asked if the shrink was married and if he came here to be with his wife. So, do we really think that Adam has as wife and family? Or is that a put upon for this job? How long has Adam had this persona of British shrink? A year? More? I'm intrigued to find these things out. 

[derryth]

 

"Hydrotherapy" was really something they used in asylums back in the days of Bedlam. I'm not sure if it was the same as waterboarding, but as I recall from what I've read, it was generally cold water.

 

I can't find anything about it in Wikipedia, but I fondly recall an Audrey Hepburn film, The Nun's Story, set between the world wars. Good movie. At one point her character was working in an insane asylum in The Netherlands. They treated a number of the more agitated female patients by keeping them for hours in very warm baths, which probably would take some of the fight out of them. The treatment was also depicted in the HBO series Boardwalk Empire, set in about the same time period. The patients were kept in the tubs under a cover fastened down all around with just their heads sticking out. They thrashed and screamed, but this had to be more benevolent treatment than the mentally ill often received in earlier eras, or some later years, too. (In the 1940s and 1950s lobotomies were all the rage.)

 

Not long after this, psychotropic drugs were introduced, providing symptom relief to many and doping others into submission. 

 

What Henry experienced was waterboarding, with no therapeutic rationale behind it. The problem was that Henry wasn't saying what the "doctor" wanted to hear. Maybe he was writing a book; it looked to me like a battle of wills. (Also, since this torture has been used so recently in the real world, the scene has more meaning to today's viewer.)

[Guest]

I wish the show didn't feel it had to have such graphic and disturbing scenes.  I had to fast-forward over the drowning, the water boarding and found the vivisection disgusting.  The flayed open bodies are a constant... blech.  It's like it's trying to be Bones and Criminal Minds but also have that humorous/cutesy element like The Mentalist or The Mysteries of Laura.  

 

I find my finger itching for the FF button as soon as Henry gets that glazed, 'here comes a flashback' look, too.  I know the world was barbaric back then.  I don't enjoy seeing it on tv.  

 

I don't even know the actor and even I figured the psychiatrist was Adam.  I too was disappointed it wasn't Pasdar.  

 

If I was immortal, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be spending my days in Belleview counseling cops.  At least Henry has an excuse for working as an M.E... his fascination with death and being a do-gooder.  

[shapeshifter]

...What Henry experienced was waterboarding, with no therapeutic rationale behind it....

Yes. Either the writers were confused or were given incorrect information about water therapy of that time period. The only realistic explanation is if the torturer at the institution was an evil mad scientist type.

[sinkwriter]

It seemed like it didn't matter if Henry truly was "better" or saying the right things to prove he no longer thought he was immortal. That "doctor" seemed like he wanted to test out his water therapy "technique," no matter what Henry would say. I wonder if he was working under the authority of Adam. If Adam's been around forever, and he's been working at that hospital, torturing patients because of his twisted obsession with death, perhaps that's how he first became aware of Henry, when Henry was brought in all those years ago. 

[blackwing]

It's important to point out that, we cannot definitively say that Adam resurrects the same way that Henry does. So, it's quite possible that Adam never ended up in the water at all. Instead, he could have resurrected in a park, or in a shallow grave, or anything - depending on the way he died. We know that Henry drowned the first time so it's possible that's why he resurrects in water. We do not know how Adam died that first time.

Yes, except the story that Adam as the psychiatrist told Henry and the police about Clark was that Clark also had multiple incidents of skinny dipping.  From that I inferred that Adam resurrects the same way Henry does.  He put that detail in the report specifically to make Henry think that Clark was an immortal who experienced the same things Henry did.

 

Of course, Adam could have at one point observed Henry resurrecting, but Occam's Razor says that it happens to Adam the same way.

[Glory]

Yes, except the story that Adam as the psychiatrist told Henry and the police about Clark was that Clark also had multiple incidents of skinny dipping.  From that I inferred that Adam resurrects the same way Henry does.  He put that detail in the report specifically to make Henry think that Clark was an immortal who experienced the same things Henry did.

 

Of course, Adam could have at one point observed Henry resurrecting, but Occam's Razor says that it happens to Adam the same way.

 

Good spot! I must have missed that. 

 

Although - I wouldn't put it past TPTB to make Adam this sort of all knowing being. If he's been following Henry long enough to know that Henry is like him then it IS possible that he would have observed Henry resurrecting at some point. 

 

I love speculation!

[Melgaypet]

Yes, except the story that Adam as the psychiatrist told Henry and the police about Clark was that Clark also had multiple incidents of skinny dipping.  From that I inferred that Adam resurrects the same way Henry does.  He put that detail in the report specifically to make Henry think that Clark was an immortal who experienced the same things Henry did.

 

While I agree that Adam threw in the skinny-dipping detail, to convince Henry that Clark was immortal, I don't think that necessarily means Adam resurrects the same way.

 

Good spot! I must have missed that. 

 

Although - I wouldn't put it past TPTB to make Adam this sort of all knowing being. If he's been following Henry long enough to know that Henry is like him then it IS possible that he would have observed Henry resurrecting at some point. 

 

I love speculation!

 

Not just possible, likely to the point of certainty. Adam has been keeping tabs on Henry for some time. Remember - in one of the early episodes he knew what Paris hotel Henry and his blonde wife the WWII nurse stayed at back in the forties. I can't imagine Adam doesn't know how and where Henry resurrects.

 

Not that I'm arguing against the idea that blackwing is right about Adam resurrecting in the same way, if not the same place - that's entirely possible - I'm just saying I don't think there's enough evidence yet to assume so.

 

I also love speculation, it's fun!

[iMonrey]

I've never seen the actor who played the psychiatrist in anything before and I wasn't spoiled, so I was completely surprised at the end when it turned out to be him. I didn't catch on when he referenced Abe's age, because at the time, when Henry said he lives with a "friend" and they run an antique shop, I was thinking the shrink probably thinks they're a couple. When the guy who wanted Henry to kill him turned out to be a red herring I was afraid they weren't going to reveal the true identity of the stalker after all, so I'm glad they didn't cheat us.

 

I hope we get to see more of Henry's life back when he was first resurrected, and find out how he (hopefully) got out of the asylum. I really hate his wife. It's one thing for her to be convinced by others that maybe Henry could get "help" from "doctors" but after seeing that madhouse with her own eyes, and Henry locked in a dungeon cell, how could anyone possibly think anyone there is getting "help" there? I'm started to suspect she has other, ulterior motives for wanting Henry locked away.

[zannej]

I'm late to the party. I think the Highlander reference was a nod to another show featuring "immortal" characters that don't age but they can die and come back to life. I think it is also somewhat similar to the Canadian series "Forever Knight" about a vampire cop who was trying to figure out how to become mortal again. The coroner was the one who knew his secret and helped him. In this case, its the coroner who is the immortal and the cop will probably find out eventually.

 

I really like the supporting cast. I also love how the people react to Henry. When Henry explained about the stalker and it seems like they are going to pass him off as crazy and then they show support for him instead. Love how they teased him with goggles and a bathing suit. LOL. 

 

I don't get why he was arrested for being out in boxers/bathing suit though.

 

I did wonder about the clothes-- losing the clothes must get expensive. LOL. But I did some handwaving to dismiss it since he's immortal and there is already a fantasy theme going on. Its sort of like how when the immortals in Highlander had quickenings and all of the lightbulbs exploded and then in the next scene, the lights were all back on. (At a convention my mother actually asked the producers -- "how do the lightbulbs get replaced?" and they were stumped. they said nobody had ever asked that and then joked that Duncan kept the lightbulbs the same place he kept his sword.)

 

I have to say its interesting that they have done so little in the way of background checking on Henry. For one, he claimed to have attended medical school in Guam. I lived in Guam for 5 years. There is no medical school. They have two colleges, and neither one of them are all that good. GCC doesn't even teach Spanish (they teach Chamorro, Japanese, and Mandarin). UOG lost its accreditation at some point. The medical treatment on island is so horrible that people try to get to the Philippines for surgery. People also go to Hawaii for treatment instead. When I was there, a little boy was murdered and burned up in a car. The coroner couldn't even tell if they were human bones or dog bones so they had to be sent to Hawaii. 

 

Anyway, I liked the nice touches of Lucas putting the blanket on Henry and I really love the relationship he has with Abe. Both of them are sort of fatherly to each other at times.

 

One nitpick is that this was supposedly Henry's first time killing someone, but in the pilot he knocked the bad guy off the building and killed him (although they both died).

 

As for Adam, I think he's sort of gone nuts over the years because he must have lost all of his loved ones and watched his world change around him. He probably became detached so he wouldn't feel the pain of loss and then eventually started viewing people as just fodder/animals and that it didn't matter if they lived or died because they all died eventually. So when he saw someone else that had the same "curse" he was excited because finally there was someone to whom he could relate. But I think he wants to make Henry more like him so he will feel that he's not a monster or abnormal. I think he's been very lonely and had convinced himself that he would never find anyone he could bond with but now he has Henry, but because he hasn't bonded with anyone in a long time, he's got an assbackwards way of dealing with him.

 

About the "doctor" that was torturing Henry at the asylum, it is well documented that it seems mental institutions attracted sadists. Even today there are doctors that prescribe electroshock for autisim, ADHD, or kids that just don't behave the way they want. I think in some ways there was a curiosity for those doctors to want to see just how far the human body could be pushed before someone died and the perfect lab rats were people who were ostracized by society because they had been branded as crazy. Nobody would believe them if they tried to report what happened because they were deemed crazy. I don't think that so-called doctor had any link to Adam. I think if Adam had known about Henry sooner, he would have made contact.

 

One thing I wondered about: If Henry dies in the ocean and then comes back to life in the middle of the ocean, what if he drowns again or gets killed by a shark or something before he can reach land? Or what if he makes it to shore and gets smashed into rocks and dies? Is it possible for him to get stuck in a cycle where he keeps dying over and over and resetting back to a specific spot? Or does it always put him relatively close to land? I wonder if it always has to be saltwater he comes back in. Or what if he dies somewhere that is not near any large bodies of water? Can he conceivably come back in a large swimming pool?

 

I'm putting too much thought into this. LOL.

[tribeca]

I did not think Adam was the psychiatrists because it was too obvious.  Thought it was a misdirect. 

[Glory]

One thing I wondered about: If Henry dies in the ocean and then comes back to life in the middle of the ocean, what if he drowns again or gets killed by a shark or something before he can reach land? Or what if he makes it to shore and gets smashed into rocks and dies? Is it possible for him to get stuck in a cycle where he keeps dying over and over and resetting back to a specific spot? Or does it always put him relatively close to land? I wonder if it always has to be saltwater he comes back in. Or what if he dies somewhere that is not near any large bodies of water? Can he conceivably come back in a large swimming pool?

 

I'm putting too much thought into this. LOL.

You are not alone! I've had all those thoughts! LOL

[bros402]

I did wonder about the clothes-- losing the clothes must get expensive. LOL. But I did some handwaving to dismiss it since he's immortal and there is already a fantasy theme going on. Its sort of like how when the immortals in Highlander had quickenings and all of the lightbulbs exploded and then in the next scene, the lights were all back on. (At a convention my mother actually asked the producers -- "how do the lightbulbs get replaced?" and they were stumped. they said nobody had ever asked that and then joked that Duncan kept the lightbulbs the same place he kept his sword.)

 

One thing I wondered about: If Henry dies in the ocean and then comes back to life in the middle of the ocean, what if he drowns again or gets killed by a shark or something before he can reach land? Or what if he makes it to shore and gets smashed into rocks and dies? Is it possible for him to get stuck in a cycle where he keeps dying over and over and resetting back to a specific spot? Or does it always put him relatively close to land? I wonder if it always has to be saltwater he comes back in. Or what if he dies somewhere that is not near any large bodies of water? Can he conceivably come back in a large swimming pool?

 

I'm putting too much thought into this. LOL.

 

Remember when they visited Henry's tailor? Jo commented on his expensive tastes and he mentioned he had some money saved up - he could always say the antiques shop made a lucrative sale a few years back or something like that.

 

I think Henry always comes back in a natural body of water.

 

I believe the current theory is that when Henry is brought back, he comes back in the nearest large body of water. So he can go through a rather long cycle of dying and rebirth - hence when he got back to England, his wife had already received word of his death (so the ship arrived in the New World, then sent a letter back to his wife with another ship that was returning) - so he may have died and been brought back for a rather long period - unless he was close enough to North America to get there, then somehow purchase passage back to England.

[Syme]

I hope we get to see more of Henry's life back when he was first resurrected, and find out how he (hopefully) got out of the asylum. 

 

The obvious way is suicide....

Edited January 3, 2015 by Syme

[shapeshifter]

I wonder if Henry ever stays Henry long enough to build up enough social security income to retire--probably not in NYC.

If he timed it right, he could probably retire for a few years every 20 years.

[HalcyonDays]

The obvious way is suicide....

 

Interesting point, but did Henry know then that if he died again, he would be resurrected. He had only died once (the ship) and survived, so he may think that if he dies again, that's it, it's permanent.

 

However, that asylum...yeah, death would be better. I would guess he was killed in the asylum, thanks to their "therapy' methods, resurrected again, and that's when he realized he would be around "forever".

[Happytobehere]

Interesting point, but did Henry know then that if he died again, he would be resurrected. He had only died once (the ship) and survived, so he may think that if he dies again, that's it, it's permanent.

 

However, that asylum...yeah, death would be better. I would guess he was killed in the asylum, thanks to their "therapy' methods, resurrected again, and that's when he realized he would be around "forever".

But he was in the asylum because he tried to convince his wife that he could not die. That would indicate some deeper belief, if not outright knowledge of his status. I think there is crucial information that we are missing from his past that will give us a clearer timeline of what Henry knew and when and also, why he and his nemesis have this affliction. Is it an "Unbreakable" time thing where Samuel L. Jackson created moments of math deaths seeking out a Bruce Willis type, or will it be something else? Is Henry one of his stalkers kids who he kept tabs on and realized he had inherited the same affliction?

[HalcyonDays]

But he was in the asylum because he tried to convince his wife that he could not die. That would indicate some deeper belief, if not outright knowledge of his status. I think there is crucial information that we are missing from his past that will give us a clearer timeline of what Henry knew and when and also, why he and his nemesis have this affliction. Is it an "Unbreakable" time thing where Samuel L. Jackson created moments of math deaths seeking out a Bruce Willis type, or will it be something else? Is Henry one of his stalkers kids who he kept tabs on and realized he had inherited the same affliction?

 

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot that he was trying to kill himself in front of her, to "prove" his claim, hence why she put him in the asylum. Poor guy. Okay, then maybe he was still fearful of "killing" himself then, because to get out, that would be all he would have to do, then disappear. Looking forward to the episode tonight!

[zannej]

Hmm.. His certainty that he would come back if he died makes me think that he *did* probably die out at sea over and over and knew each time that he had come back. He was wearing clothes when he confronted Nora so its possible he was rescued somewhere along the way and given clothes and safe passage. He might have performed doctor duties in exchange or promised money upon return.

 

If he was related to Adam, it wouldn't be a close relative. He would recognize a close relative. When he explained the pocket watch to Jo he said it was given to a doctor by his father and lost at sea (IIRC).

 

I suspect he ended up being killed by the "doctors" at the mental institution, but suicide to escape the torture is possible.