Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Where is Carlos??

[RedVitC]

I hope they don't make Sue a scientist. I'm guessing she'll be more of a long term character for the show since she'll be Ralph's love interest, so it would be fun to have a character with a different type of job.

I don't mind them adding new scientists, but since they don't differentiate that well between the disciplines you get a whole bunch of characters who, except for certain episodes, all know everything about every discipline so there's no need to add another character to the team that also knows everything about everything. And they also forget the science side of some characters, like Wally and Nora. Still, I think this new character could be fun. The alien part is interesting, though, since aliens haven't played a big role on the show outside of the crossovers. Maybe it's related to the next big crossover?

I'd like them to take their time with the Ralph/Sue romance. 

Iris and Sue in the comics were friends (Iris/Barry and Ralph/Sue were always going on double dates, ha)  so I'd love to see that on the show as well.

Iris and Kamilla friendship would be nice, though Iris is Kamilla's boss so that might impact that.

Even at this late stage I wouldn't mind them trying again to develop a friendship between Iris and Caitlin, but they tend to skip over all the potential bonding moments. Like last season a key moment was when Caitlin's dad came back after she though he was dead for years, just like Iris' mom came back. And like with Iris' mom Caitlin didn't have a lot of time to reconnect with her dad. 

In general, I think if done well it can be a lot of fun to have a friendship between two female characters not immediately start off as them getting along great but rather slowly growing to understand and respect one another on screen despite their differences. (besides, people have so many interests outside of their job)

For what it's worth I think the part about Caitlin and Cisco making another acquaintance is just the way for the writer of that article to connect the news to the question. I don't think they actually know that it'll be those two that will be the main ones to interact with that character, but since they're scientists it's not a big jump to think that a new scientist on the show will meet those two and it's a way to present that information. 

If for example a character was being cast that had reporter in the description I could see news outlets writing something like:

It looks like Iris might get some competition in her work field. Casting is underway for a character that is described as a 'competitive journalist willing to do anything to get a scoop'

Not because they would know this for sure, but because Iris is a reporter and it's a way to present the information.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Where is Carlos??

Hopefully, Carlos went to the bathroom or had to take a call.

[Trini]

On 6/28/2019 at 7:45 PM, RedVitC said:

I'd like them to take their time with the Ralph/Sue romance.  

Iris and Sue in the comics were friends (Iris/Barry and Ralph/Sue were always going on double dates, ha)  so I'd love to see that on the show as well.

I'm not sure what pace you're thinking of when you say "take their time", but I think this is a given, since Ralph (and presumably Sue) will be around for a while. However, side character romances on the show have always played out sporadically at best.

A double date is on my WestAllen wish list! (We could have had this with Cisco & Cynthia, but they love slamming the door in Opportunity's face.)

Edited June 30, 2019 by Trini

[adora721]

3 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Iris and Sue in the comics were friends (Iris/Barry and Ralph/Sue were always going on double dates, ha)  so I'd love to see that on the show as well.

I'll be watching very closely if they make Iris and Sue friends vs Sue and Caitlin. This will tell us alot about their committement, or lack their of, to developing genuine female friendships. 

3 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Even at this late stage I wouldn't mind them trying again to develop a friendship between Iris and Caitlin, but they tend to skip over all the potential bonding moments. Like last season a key moment was when Caitlin's dad came back after she though he was dead for years, just like Iris' mom came back. And like with Iris' mom Caitlin didn't have a lot of time to reconnect with her dad. 

Unfortunately, this is only possible with a real apology from Cait to Iris and acceptance of responsibility from Caitlin about how she tried to help murder Iris in S3. Without that, it's impossible to write a genuine friendship between the two. And it doesn't seem likely they'll revisit it.

They've done their best to make it seem like all that Caitlin did was, "Kidnap and stab" her friends. This is what KF told Ralph she did. Caitlin didn't even show remorse for helping to murder HR Wells. She gave a tepid, "Sorry about what happened to HR" at his funeral. I could go to any stranger's funeral and say the same thing. It wasn't an admission about her part as an accessory to his murder. And she shed no tears nor showed any guilt about what she did.

Having Iris, a likely descendant of slaves, make the effort to befriend and excuse Caitlin, who worked in slave trafficking, after Caitlin tried to help murder Iris wasn't the best foundation for a genuine SnoWest friendship. The writing for the SnoWest friendship shows a complete lack of insight about how it displays racial bias.

[Featherhat]

I think it's quite likely they'll try and show some Iris and Caitlin moments but unlikely they'll have her apologise for anything (though I don't think they'd have Iris apologise either if things were reversed) They certainly don't seem to care about any nuance with it. Female friendship with exploration of past issues and sensitive topics? Nah. And that would mean actually figuring out the KF thing properly.

The Sue/Ralph thing should take longer than a usual guest star romance but I agree writing for romance, especially side romance is really hit and miss and I expect if it's any good most of it will come from the actors rather than the writing. They could always just slap them together quickly because she's his comics wife and rely on that for most of it.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Featherhat

[SimoneS]

Ugh, the Monitor in the premiere. The only good thing about this crisis is that it will force them to write intimate scenes for Barry and Iris and to give Iris' journalism some airtime. They might even be forced to give Iris scenes on the other shows during the crossover. However, I have my doubts since Guggenheim is writing it once again. I am looking forward to episode 10 when the crossover is done.

I wonder if Sue shows up before or after the crossover. I hope they do a good job with the casting. It will be nice to see Ralph have a fun romance. I think it will get more attention than Gypsy and Cisco's did or I might just be hoping.

I wouldn't hold my breath over any friendships suddenly occurring among the women characters and given how the one or two episodes that featured the women were written, I would prefer they not bother.

I want Wallace to focus on improving the writing so that Barry and Iris by extension are the center of the show. 

[RedVitC]

21 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm not sure what pace you're thinking of when you say "take their time", but I think this is a given, since Ralph (and presumably Sue) will be around for a while. However, side character romances on the show have always played out sporadically at best.

I'm not even sure myself what I mean, but I guess I'd like the situation to not immediately be romantic (even if one or both of them immediately take a liking to the other). Meaning, not meeting one episode and the next one, one of them immediately asks the other out. Maybe just have them work together on whatever that case is she will presumably hire him for and fall in love throughout the course of the season.

[Trini]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:08 PM, adora721 said:

I'll be watching very closely if they make Iris and Sue friends vs Sue and Caitlin. This will tell us alot about their committement, or lack their of, to developing genuine female friendships. 

Do you mean with the new showrunner? Because the previous five seasons have been pretty clear.

6 hours ago, RedVitC said:

I'm not even sure myself what I mean, but I guess I'd like the situation to not immediately be romantic (even if one or both of them immediately take a liking to the other). Meaning, not meeting one episode and the next one, one of them immediately asks the other out. Maybe just have them work together on whatever that case is she will presumably hire him for and fall in love throughout the course of the season.

Sounds good to me! And since they did tease her in connection to one of his cases, it's likely that's how it will play out.

[adora721]

18 minutes ago, Trini said:

Do you mean with the new showrunner? Because the previous five seasons have been pretty clear.

6 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Yes, the new showrunner will either continue the pattern or break it. As you know, I think BTS issues is why Cait and Iris still aren't close despite the failed attempt to remedy the issue in S4. However, if the new showrunner does better with Iris and Sue, then it makes my theory more likely since Iris is chummy with almost everyone except Cait. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by adora721

[Trini]

6 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Meaning, not meeting one episode and the next one, one of them immediately asks the other out.

They could start out flirty, but not necessarily romantic, kinda like Cisco/Cynthia. ... Although, Cisco did technically ask her out a minute after they met.... The thing is, these writers are rarely subtle, and they are going to want to make it clear that this is Ralph's love interest.

----

I feel like even with a new-ish showrunner, there are some things that are 'baked into the DNA' of the show by now, so there will be only so many things that can/will change; although I'm hoping for the best. One of the main things I want from Wallace is a cohesive, consistent story for the season, that makes sense with the history of the characters. (Essentially, the opposite of last season.) The writer's room last year was A MESS.

[Trini]

Quote

At the last convention he did, Grant said that he liked Gregory Smith as a director. He seems to get good performances from the actors, so the premiere should be good. (The premieres tend to be good, though.)

[SimoneS]

One of the YTubers I occasionally watch manipulated the image of that script and was able see "Godspeed" on the cast list so he will be back, maybe a different version thanks to Nora messing with the timeline. Cisco was also on the list as "Cisco/Vibe." 

Edited June 30, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

Godspeed as the major villain makes me optimistic that we will be seeing more of Barry, Joe, and Iris at GCPD working on cases together. If Godspeed is August Heart then he could be working at GCPD or in the lab with Barry. Alternatively, Iris can team up with Ralph as he meets and gets involved with Sue. Maybe Iris and Ralph will end up becoming friends. 

9 hours ago, Trini said:

I feel like even with a new-ish showrunner, there are some things that are 'baked into the DNA' of the show by now, so there will be only so many things that can/will change; although I'm hoping for the best. One of the main things I want from Wallace is a cohesive, consistent story for the season, that makes sense with the history of the characters. (Essentially, the opposite of last season.) The writer's room last year was A MESS.

I am a cynic so I am not expecting much from Wallace. However,  "cohesive, consistent" storytelling would be a major improvement. I am not even expecting it to be logical "with the history of the characters." 

[adora721]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Alternatively, Iris can team up with Ralph as he meets and gets involved with Sue. Maybe Iris and Ralph will end up becoming friends. 

I already think Ralph and Iris are friends, especially since they went to the future together. I think it makes sense for that friendship to deepen because the quartet of Barry, Iris, Sue, and Ralph are friends in the comics.

Hopefully, you're right that Iris and Ralph encounter Sue together. I hope it's Iris that Ralph gets relationship advice from since Cait is 0-3 in the relationship success department.

[SimoneS]

More about the manipulated script image

• Godspeed in a non-speaking role
• Ramsay Rosso/Bloodwork, a comic villain is in the episode
• Harrison Wells is listed which suggests that we might be getting Harry back, I hope so anyway. 

[Trini]

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Harrison Wells is listed which suggests that we might be getting Harry back, I hope so anyway. 

This is interesting, because Tom C. isn't usually in the first few episodes.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Trini
typos! shakes fist!

[Trini]

It's been pointed out (here and elsewhere) that the 6.02 title, "A Flash of the Lightning" is a reference to a comic:

Quote

Episode #6.2 is called “A Flash of the Lightning” — which has a kind of important title to DC Comics history, as “A Flash of the Lightning” was the title of Crisis on Infinite Earths #8 in which Barry Allen sacrificed himself in the Crisis!

[likeaspider]

They need to get rid of the new costume. Wear the one before the new one, or one that isn't as thick and has a chin and cheek strap. Please, flash directors, please.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

This is interesting, because Tom C. is isn't usually in the first few episodes.

Yeah, I was wondering about that also. Maybe to accommodate the crisis,  they are shifting the episodes that Tom C. usually misses to the back half of the season. I can see them bringing Harry back to help Team Flash come up with a plan to save Barry. Even a not brilliant Harry is an asset.

I am not sure what to make of them using the title, "A Flash of the Lightning" so early in the season. I thought that Jay Garrett might the Flash that "dies," but we haven't hear anything about John Wesley Shipp appearing this season.

[SimoneS]

I am now reading speculation that the new scientist might be Bumblebee/Karen Beecher, who was DC Comics' first African American DC Comics woman superhero. She is an engineer who worked at STAR Labs and was involved in the COIE.

I am surprised that we will be seeing Kamilla next season, but nice that the actress will be getting some work.

Edited July 1, 2019 by SimoneS

[Featherhat]

That would be cool. Although I also agree with the thinking that if a female character isn't specified then it's likely to be a man not a woman but you never know. Allegedly way back in Arrow S1 they were going to name the character that Oliver went to for tech help Karen Beecher not Felicity Smoak (possibly after EBR was cast which would have ended up very controversial) but decided she was too big a character to use as an easter egg so went with a more obscure name, so she was on the radar years ago. 

If the character is not Sue would they really introduce two new recurring women? What are the chances of both being written well? I guess we don't even know if the character is supposed to be heavily recurring yet. 

[Trini]

50 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

If the character is not Sue would they really introduce two new recurring women? What are the chances of both being written well? I guess we don't even know if the character is supposed to be heavily recurring yet. 

I think they could - it depends on how much they would both appear. Marlize, Amunet, Cynthia, and technically Nora were recurring in Season 4. And Cynthia, Cecile, and Tracy Brand in Season 3.

As for 'written well', that's a long shot no matter what their status.

The show also has a history of gender-bending and race-bending comic characters, so the new scientist could be nearly anyone as far as we know. But the Bumblebee spec is intriguing.

[RedVitC]

On 6/20/2019 at 3:53 PM, SimoneS said:

There have been "leaks" about season six on YT.

Anywhere I can read/see these? I'm curious because back in november I think of last year there was a supposed 'leak' on reddit that also mentioned that season 6 would focus on the history of the reverse Flash and original timeline Barry and that that thing about Barry's mother.

However that leak was kind of wrong about season 5: It said something that by the end of the season it would be found out that Eddie was still alive but didn't remember Central City due to Flashpoint, and that you'd find out at the end of the season that Nora and Ronnie (??) were not from the same timeline and that the season would end with something that would lead into the original timeline for season 6, apparently a speedster stuck in the speed force wanting Barry's help. 

It also mentioned that the S6 crossover would take place at the end of the season and rewrite history for Arrow and Flash, but it was announced less than a month later that the crossover would take place at the usual time in fall.

So if these leaks are from the same source/leak (it didn't have that part about Barry being trapped in the speedforce though), that's something to be mindful of, though I suppose it's possible that plans could have changed for the ending of S5.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in the original timeline and I think exploring the history of the reverse flash is a great idea especially with Crisis being the next crossover, but with supposed leaks you never know)

Also, Barry being trapped in the speedforce for (part of) the rest of the season; I think it could be done as long as they show us what is happening with him and him trying to find his way back home (to Iris 😋), rather than repeating the way they did it at the beginning of season 4 with us only seeing the perspective of the team. That way he would still be in every episode.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Anywhere I can read/see these? I'm curious because back in november I think of last year there was a supposed 'leak' on reddit that also mentioned that season 6 would focus on the history of the reverse Flash and original timeline Barry and that that thing about Barry's mother.

Random Flash TYubers show up on my main page, but most of them are asshole fanboys. The exception is Ben's TheDCTVshow. He is an enthusiastic fan and doesn't push the Iris and/or WestAllen hate. In addition to his own info and speculation, he compiles and shares most of the Flash leaks/spoilers that are floating around so it is a good channel to follow.

Edited July 2, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

The title of the first episode might be, "Into the Void."

[Trini]

Victoria Park /Kamilla is back for filming Season 6, so with Sue, that's 2 recurring women already.

[Featherhat]

Into the Void fits with The Monitor being in ep 1. Does this mean Barry getting lost/trapped in the Speed Force and spending eps trying to get back according to the YT spoilers more likely?

As for Kamilla, I'm not holding my breath for anything particularly note worthy but we'll see. I hope this isn't one of those times where an actor asks people what they think will happen and they know the characters are leaving after a couple of eps. Talking mostly about CV here, not VP. 

[SimoneS]

I find it difficult to believe that Barry will be lost in the Speed Force beyond the crossover. This would mean having two complete different stories ongoing for multiple episodes and they have never done before. 

Some of the latest speculation is that the Monitor will be a regular this season and that we might encounter Cisco as Vibe from other earths. I am doubtful about the Monitor being a regular. I think he will be in several episodes, but will be gone after the crossover. I still don't know what to think about Cisco. I would love to see Carlos as other versions of Vibe from other earths, but that is too much like Wells.

Edited July 3, 2019 by SimoneS

[Featherhat]

I think it's more likely The Monitor will be mainly with Oliver on the Arrow mini season, though obviously he's going to appear in an early ep of Flash, it might be more like the cameo in Arrow/LOT/Supergirl at the end of the last seasons. 

I don't think Barry will be lost in the Speedforce all season but maybe in the lead up to the crossover. 

[Kate45]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:28 PM, Trini said:

Where is this info from?

One of the Flash department heads gave that info away a couple of weeks back on Twitter. I think he heads up the transportation department.

[SimoneS]

I thought I posted this, but don't see it. The first behind the scene photos of season six are out. Barry, Iris, Joe, Caitlin, Kamilla, and Cisco are dressed casually in summer outfits at a family bbq. Grant reportedly said that the Flash suit will have a chin strap this season.

Edited July 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

On 7/5/2019 at 9:17 PM, SimoneS said:

I thought I posted this, but don't see it. The first behind the scene photos of season six are out. Barry, Iris, Joe, Caitlin, Kamilla, and Cisco are dressed casually in summer outfits at a family bbq. Grant reportedly said that the Flash suit will have a chin strap this season.

I saw those when they got released. 

SIGH

I just........

Me and others would really love if this show could give us family scenes again. I get they try to portray the team as "family", but we should still see some scenes between family members. It would be nice to see Joe, Iris, Barry, and Cecile have dinner together without the others.

I saw someone say it on twitter. Even though we don't see where Ralph is all the time, they said at least he looks like he has a life outside the team. 

[SimoneS]

More leaked photos from episode one showing a stun filming on the street. Joe as captain with three GCPD cars, Ralph as Elongated Man, and a car turned over with regular extras. There might be more set photos released later on. 

[BeautifulFlower]

37 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

More leaked photos from episode one showing a stun filming on the street. Joe as captain with three GCPD cars, Ralph as Elongated Man, and a car turned over with regular extras. There might be more set photos released later on. 

Just released pics of Killer Frost in her new costume.

The costume looks like a mixture between S3 and S4. 

[SimoneS]

59 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Just released pics of Killer Frost in her new costume.

The costume looks like a mixture between S3 and S4. 

I just saw it. I guess they are constrained by the comics. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I just saw it. I guess they are constrained by the comics. 

I don't think they are, really, since this is the the fifth iteration of her costume. But it does seem like they wanted to get back to a more 'comic book' look. Maybe so she'll fit in better with the other superheroes when we get to the Crisis crossover.

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I just saw it. I guess they are constrained by the comics. 

I don't think so. Does Killer Frost even have an official costume in the comics?

[Trini]

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Does Killer Frost even have an official costume in the comics?

She doesn't really have one official, iconic look.

This new costume for Panabaker does use some elements from the latest comic look - the stylized snowflake emblem, in particular:

[BeautifulFlower]

25 minutes ago, Trini said:

She doesn't really have one official, iconic look.

This new costume for Panabaker does use some elements from the latest comic look - the stylized snowflake emblem, in particular:

I really don't understand why she keeps getting new costumes. If the rumor that DP didn't like the season 3 look, why didn't they keep the season 4 look. Why constantly give her a new look? Just as someone mentioned on twitter, this is so unfair as Vibe got stuck with one costume.

[Featherhat]

I don't know, it almost looks......cheap? I know it's just a pap shot and not the full thing in an episode but meh. I preferred her previous look personally. This is just a mash up of 3 and 4 anyway. Apparently she did ask for a new one, she mentioned it in an interview. I can see why she wanted something different after season 3 but there was nothing wrong with the previous one. 

[SimoneS]

There are more photos from the first episode. Barry's suit is slightly different. Looks better from the fuzzy photos. He fights Godspeed, takes off his mask, and cuffs him. Killer Frost and Elongated Man are fighting in scenes together on the street.

[BeautifulFlower]

26 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

There are more photos from the first episode. Barry's suit is slightly different. Looks better from the fuzzy photos. He fights Godspeed, takes off his mask, and cuffs him. Killer Frost and Elongated Man are fighting in scenes together on the street.

I'm not here for Godspeed. He's nothing but fanservice. Also, we basically got Godspeed back in S2 with Zoom.

I'm not here Ralph and KF scene either. I'm not.

[BeautifulFlower]

I keep looking at Killer Frost's costume from the pics. It's meh/okay. I feel it could be better. I don't know what's going with the top. The material also doesn't look good.

[SevenStars]

13 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I really don't understand why she keeps getting new costumes. If the rumor that DP didn't like the season 3 look, why didn't they keep the season 4 look. Why constantly give her a new look? Just as someone mentioned on twitter, this is so unfair as Vibe got stuck with one costume.

She might have wanted her custom to match her character, like her character, it will keep changing every season.

Edited July 10, 2019 by SevenStars
Every, not everyone

[BeautifulFlower]

From Ask Ausiello at Tvline

Quote

Question: Care to share a Flash scoop? —Gene
Ausiello: It looks like Iris is hiring at the Central City Citizen. Per sources, The Flash is looking for a Latinx actress to play an eager cub reporter with a hankering for social justice.

Good. I hope Iris gets a journalism arc.

[Primal Slayer]

15 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I really don't understand why she keeps getting new costumes. If the rumor that DP didn't like the season 3 look, why didn't they keep the season 4 look. Why constantly give her a new look? Just as someone mentioned on twitter, this is so unfair as Vibe got stuck with one costume.

I think they should be getting new outfits just as Flash gets his so I enjoy seeing them get "upgrades" though I agree that Vibe should've been getting some upgrades when he was active since he is always in a constant state of wanting to perfect things. Things get boring imo when they just stay completely the same (see D/L in Arrow) 

[RedVitC]

That Ask Ausiello news bit made me laugh at first because it made me think of this I made up as an example in a previous post 😄

On 6/29/2019 at 1:45 AM, RedVitC said:

If for example a character was being cast that had reporter in the description I could see news outlets writing something like:

It looks like Iris might get some competition in her work field. Casting is underway for a character that is described as a 'competitive journalist willing to do anything to get a scoop'

Though thinking back to that discussion, in this case again, I think the news is that they're casting someone and the part about Iris maybe hiring someone is (very likely to be true) speculation based on that casting call.

Regular character or one episode character? If they're looking to build the Central City Citizen more I would say recurring, but it could also be a one episode character there to help Iris realize something or something like that. 

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello,

So all the new characters so far for Season 6 are people of color. It's good that Eric Wallace is committed to diversity in casting.

They have to build up CC Citizen, so I'm glad there will be more people working for Iris.

Does anyone else think that this Latinx reporter could be Sue? The show can be cheap and lazy, so I can see them killing two birds with one stone. On the other hand, since Sue is Ralph's comic love interest, I would think that would be mentioned in any announcement/scoop.

[Trini]

Danielle tweeted a better pic of the costume: