Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Starry]

I don't think it's Kristen that panders to the OTF people. I believe that when writers are assigned an episode they already have an idea of what the A and B plot are and which characters are a part of them. It's possible that the showrunners wanted the A plot for this episode to be about Caitlin and her father and for Barry and Cisco to be a part of it while Iris and Sherloque get the B plot. That's a rough outline. Kristen and Joshua can add specific moments but I don't believe they are to blame for the plot.

I wonder how they'll justify Barry's presence in this storyline when up until now he's had other things going on. It's obvious fan service. I just want to see if they can have it make sense and mask the fact that it's blatant fan service, lol. They didn't do a good job in 4x22 considering that Caitlin had no business training in Flashtime and Iris would have been a much better candidate. She was the one who could actually last more than five seconds in Flashtime, not Caitlin.

[adora721]

6 minutes ago, Starry said:

I wonder how they'll justify Barry's presence in this storyline when up until now he's had other things going on. It's obvious fan service. I just want to see if they can have it make sense and mask the fact that it's blatant fan service, lol. They didn't do a good job in 4x22 considering that Caitlin had no business training in Flashtime and Iris would have been a much better candidate. She was the one who could actually last more than five seconds in Flashtime, not Caitlin.

Perhaps her frostiness will deign to give Barry the truth that he isn't the reason she turned into Killer Frost, and Barry may actually get an apology from Caitlin. I don't mind Barry having scenes with his friends, just as long as they make sense and move Cait closer to redemption and provide Cisco with more story.

 I still find it odd she continues her search to regain her mental illness/accessory to HR's murder/accessory to criminal slave trafficking personality, especially since Cisco made her a form of a cold gun, which negates her need to have meta ice powers. Perhaps she's lonely, knows she'll never get another love interest, so a second personality is her companion in lieu of a separate human being.

[Kate45]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

I don't think it's Kristen that panders to the OTF people. I believe that when writers are assigned an episode they already have an idea of what the A and B plot are and which characters are a part of them. It's possible that the showrunners wanted the A plot for this episode to be about Caitlin and her father and for Barry and Cisco to be a part of it while Iris and Sherloque get the B plot. That's a rough outline. Kristen and Joshua can add specific moments but I don't believe they are to blame for the plot.

I wonder how they'll justify Barry's presence in this storyline when up until now he's had other things going on. It's obvious fan service. I just want to see if they can have it make sense and mask the fact that it's blatant fan service, lol. They didn't do a good job in 4x22 considering that Caitlin had no business training in Flashtime and Iris would have been a much better candidate. She was the one who could actually last more than five seconds in Flashtime, not Caitlin.

From my understanding, episode writing works how you described it. I’ve listened to podcasts about the writing process for this show and the episode writers are given a storyboard of what needs to happen, and which characters it involves, but not how it happens. Sometimes the actual story is given to the episode writers and that’s when we will see the writers of the episode listed as the teleplay writers which means they really just wrote the actual dialogue. If not, it means that they created the story and dialogue based on the outlined plan given by the executive producers. 

 Also, the producers aren’t stupid. If they made the A plot of the episode Caitlin, Ralph, and Cisco that would be a flop, even though it would make the most sense given everything we have seen about this story so far. Barry doesn’t seem to know anything about Caitlin’s situation at this point, but I’m also not surprised that he’s in this story since I saw a picture of Grant and the actor playing Caitlin’s dad on set a few weeks back. 

4x22 wasn’t successful to me for all the reasons you listed, but it was also obvious that Caitlin didn’t have a place in that plot. The bulk of the plot was about Barry and Cisco and Caitlin stood silently for most of it. It really should have been Iris from the start since she already knew how to last in Flash time without getting winded, but fan service calls. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Kate45

[Trini]

On 11/2/2018 at 8:02 PM, Starry said:

I wonder how they'll justify Barry's presence in this storyline when up until now he's had other things going on. It's obvious fan service. I just want to see if they can have it make sense and mask the fact that it's blatant fan service, lol. They didn't do a good job in 4x22 considering that Caitlin had no business training in Flashtime and Iris would have been a much better candidate. She was the one who could actually last more than five seconds in Flashtime, not Caitlin.

On 11/2/2018 at 11:33 PM, Kate45 said:

 Also, the producers aren’t stupid. If they made the A plot of the episode Caitlin, Ralph, and Cisco that would be a flop, even though it would make the most sense given everything we have seen about this story so far. Barry doesn’t seem to know anything about Caitlin’s situation at this point, but I’m also not surprised that he’s in this story since I saw a picture of Grant and the actor playing Caitlin’s dad on set a few weeks back. 

4x22 wasn’t successful to me for all the reasons you listed, but it was also obvious that Caitlin didn’t have a place in that plot. The bulk of the plot was about Barry and Cisco and Caitlin stood silently for most of it. It really should have been Iris from the start since she already knew how to last in Flash time without getting winded, but fan service calls. 

They kinda have to have Barry in it to make it the A-plot, right? I mean, most viewers are here for Barry/the Flash; to have the main plot unconnected to him would disrupt the format. I think the only time they've done that was "Girls Night Out" last season, and it was weak (but not only for that reason).

[Kate45]

27 minutes ago, Trini said:

They kinda have to have Barry in it to make it the A-plot, right? I mean, most viewers are here for Barry/the Flash; to have the main plot unconnected to him would disrupt the format. I think the only time they've done that was "Girls Night Out" last season, and it was weak (but not only for that reason).

True. Even in 4x05, Iris was involved with the A plot. So, I think either Iris or Barry tends to be involved with the A plot. 

[Starry]

There has to come a time when Caitlin's story becomes the A plot but what makes it blatant fan service is not the fact that Barry is involved for one episode, it's that it could have been Barry, Caitlin and any other other character finding info about Thomas Snow but they decided it had to be Barry, Caitlin and Cisco because fans with dubious motives have been campaigning for OTF. Imagine if it were Barry, Caitlin and Iris getting the A plot for this episode, lol.

 

On 3/11/2018 at 1:17 AM, adora721 said:

Perhaps her frostiness will deign to give Barry the truth that he isn't the reason she turned into Killer Frost, and Barry may actually get an apology from Caitlin. I don't mind Barry having scenes with his friends, just as long as they make sense and move Cait closer to redemption and provide Cisco with more story.

The writers don't think Caitlin has to be redeemed. Cisco is there to support her story so I wouldn't hold my breath about him getting more to do.

I'm more interested in the B plot. I always like it when Iris gets paired with different characters. Hopefully she'll make me like Sherloque, lol.

[scarynikki12]

Crossover spoilers and talk need to be in the crossover thread. 

[Trini]

5.05, "All Doll'd Up" promo:

 

So, when was the last time Barry got damselled? There was that episode with Null where Ralph had to rescue him, but I think the real last time was when DeVoe kidnapped him.

I'm wondering how they explain Barry not being able to escape by himself. Did whatever he was injected with dampen his powers? Because so far Ragdoll doesn't seem to have any powers besides being bendy and stealthy. And creeeeepy.

[adora721]

[Trini]

A few of the other photos:

Caitlin's father:

And his lab is cold:

Does he just... carry around teacups everywhere?

Edited November 8, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

Will Barry/Caitlin/Cisco be traveling far to meet Caitlin's father? I'm just wondering because either he keeps his lab refrigerated, or the lab is in an arctic region, which would be a better explanation for the parkas. (Even when it's the A-plot, the episode descriptions are still really vague about Caitlin's arc this season.)

I was going to be excited for Iris and Nora - who seem to have reconciled enough to work together - having their own B-plot, but Wells #789 is involved too. ::SIGH::

[phoenics]

I'm thinking her dad is actually the canon version of Killer Frost - meaning he cannot survive without absorbing heat from whatever and that's why he left Cait and the family - because he needed to find a cure (and maybe he put them in danger).  He passed the gene down to Caitlin, but she doesn't have it as bad, so she doesn't have to absorb heat to survive.  But he does.  That's why it's so cold in his lab.  He's absorbed all of the heat there.

I also wonder if he was able to figure out how to suppress the frostiness in Caitlin, so it didn't show up again until she was an adult.

Oh God - please don't let Nora and Caitlin "bond" over their parents suppressing powers. *rolls eyes*

Just based on the pictures - it makes little sense why Barry needs to be there... except fan service.  But whatever.

[Kate45]

16 hours ago, phoenics said:

Just based on the pictures - it makes little sense why Barry needs to be there... except fan service.  But whatever.

Fan service plus the fact that Caitlin cannot carry an A story on her own. It should have been Caitlin, Ralph, and Cisco based on the story that we have seen so far. But, that would not go over well. 

[Trini]

The 'Flashtime' promo is out!

 

Also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/CW_TheFlash/status/1062027248432283649

[Trini]

Re: Flashtime promo:

Yay! Barry & Iris in formal wear! It's not going to be that big a part of the episode, but I can't for a Mr. & Mrs. Smith-type scene!

Team STAR Labs is off on their own plot. I don't like that Cisco's hands are still injured; shouldn't he have slightly accelerated healing because he's a metahuman?

We might be getting a Barry/Cecile scene and a Nora/Cecile scene, I think. Maybe she's helps the West-Allens reconcile? Joe is absent - maybe this is the episode where they give a reason for that.

[Trini]

5.06 promo:

 

So Caitlin's dad is looking pretty villainous, and it looks like they are going to be traveling somewhere cold and snowy. "He's the only family I have left" -- what about her mom?

[adora721]

Flash Thanksgiving pics:

 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by adora721

[adora721]

Weather Witch:

[Maverick]

 Is Weather Witch from the future too?   Weather Wizard didn't seem old enough to have an adult daughter.  

[Trini]

10 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Is Weather Witch from the future too?   Weather Wizard didn't seem old enough to have an adult daughter.  

Hmm, yeah. She probably got her powers from the satellite crash. Convenient!

---

Quote

"O Come, All Ye Faithful"

THANKSGIVING - While Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) grapples with unresolved anger over her father's disappearance in the future, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Team Flash must stop a powerful new meta, Weather Witch (guest star Reina Hardesty), from killing her own father, Weather Wizard (guest star Liam Mcintyre).

Sarah Boyd directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza

(#507). Original airdate 11/27/2018.

---

Full set of promo photos here: http://flashtvnews.com/flash-spoilers-o-come-all-ye-faithful-images-description/32119

[Proteus]

So will we get children for Leonard Snart & Mick Rory as well since TH said younger versions of Rogues for this season?

[Trini]

Looking through the photos, we're getting a flashback for Cicada and his daughter; and ... is Weather Wizard actually going to be in this episode? Doesn't seem like it.

And I was wondering how they'd explain not having Joe and Cecile at Thanksgiving, but it's the West-Allen dinner at the loft.

[adora721]

I wonder if Weather Witch trying to kill her own father

Spoiler

serves as foreshadowing for Cait and her father down the road? Will Cait have to make that horrible choice to protect her friends?

[Trini]

12 hours ago, adora721 said:

I wonder if Weather Witch trying to kill her own father

  Hide contents

serves as foreshadowing for Cait and her father down the road? Will Cait have to make that horrible choice to protect her friends?

This really is the season of fathers and daughters!

[Trini]

100th episode synopsis released:

Quote

“What’s Past is Prologue” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS THE 100TH EPISODE — In the 100th episode, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Team Flash come up with a plan to stop Cicada (Chris Klein). However, the plan calls for Barry and Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) to travel back in time to gather some key necessities. However, Barry hesitates, concerned about his daughter seeing certain parts of his life. Meanwhile, Sherloque (Tom Cavanagh) takes his concerns about Nora to Iris (Candice Patton), and Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) turns up a key asset in the fight against Cicada.

Tom Cavanagh directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Lauren Certo

(#508). Original airdate 12/4/2018.

"Concerns about Nora"?? And I wasn't expecting Sherlogue to be in this much (if at all) since Tom is directing.

I know it's just a plot device to time travel and see the past, but why does Barry have to go to the past to gather things??

[cambridgeguy]

Shouldn't the bigger cause for concern be screwing up the timeline (again) instead of the potential for Nora to see some embarrassing moments? 

[Kate45]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Shouldn't the bigger cause for concern be screwing up the timeline (again) instead of the potential for Nora to see some embarrassing moments? 

No, because as long as they don't plan to change anything it should be fine. If they plan to change something especially a "fixed point", that would be a problem. I don't think Nora knows that Savitar was a time remnant of Barry or that his FlashPoint and trying to fix it nearly got her mother killed. That could be what he's concerned about. Nora didn't even know he went to jail. 

[Maverick]

 I had to look up Icicle, who was a DC villain who invented a cold gun (sounded like basically another Captain Cold, but with Green Lantern as his nemesis).  His DNA was altered by exposure to the cold gun and he passed on cold powers to his son, who became the second Icicle.   The Arrowverse has a tendency to rewrite characters completely, but I wonder if they're going to stick somewhat close on this one and say Caitlin inherited powers from her father rather than gaining them later.  It also seems odd that when Caitlin was giving Cisco his pep talk she mentioned how he built the cold gun. 

[adora721]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:21 PM, Trini said:

This really is the season of fathers and daughters!

Well, we've seen Nora try to kill her father while under Spin's control. There's got to be a reason, I hope, that the writers are being repetitive.

[adora721]

100th episode pics:

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by adora721

[Trini]

Flashtime preview:

Looks like Cecile is on the case also!

[adora721]

Not sure which episode this is from, but it looks like Cait's bestest friend is back:

 

[BeautifulFlower]

12 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Not sure which episode this is from, but it looks like Cait's bestest friend is back:

 

Possibly 5x11 or 12. Either way, I'm not here for the 4 metas team up.

[Kate45]

4 hours ago, adora721 said:

Not sure which episode this is from, but it looks like Cait's bestest friend is back:

 

It’s 5x11, and I think it’s her first episode back. 

[Trini]

"O Come All Ye Faithful" promo:

Again, I'm always amazed at how the description, photos, and promo can each tell 3 different stories about an episode.

Chris Klein mentioned that this is the Cicada backstory episode. From the promo, I'm guessing that his daughter's mother has recently died and come to live with him.

Also from the promo, obviously Barry isn't dead, but I wonder if he does die or is severely injured and Nora reverses time to save him?

I'm hoping that they delve into the real reason Nora is staying in the past, and Nora shares it with her parents.

I hope this one is good; looking forward to a West-Allen family and Cicada focused episode.

[Lady Calypso]

My bigger question about next week's episode is when did they have the time to skip ahead to November when it should only be July'ish? 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

My bigger question about next week's episode is when did they have the time to skip ahead to November when it should only be July'ish? 

This episode is probably the best time to mention a time jump, but I'm 90% sure they won't. ::sigh::

Also I'm concerned that Cisco's hands are still bandaged in the photos. I hope they say something about dark matter blah blah blah, because even if there's still shards in his hands, the wounds should have healed by now. It's not a huge deal, but everyone always heals so quickly on the show, so this one instance where it's not happening looks weird.

[SevenStars]

51 minutes ago, Trini said:

This episode is probably the best time to mention a time jump, but I'm 90% sure they won't. ::sigh::

Also I'm concerned that Cisco's hands are still bandaged in the photos. I hope they say something about dark matter blah blah blah, because even if there's still shards in his hands, the wounds should have healed by now. It's not a huge deal, but everyone always heals so quickly on the show, so this one instance where it's not happening looks weird.

Maybe the reason Cisco is not healing like he should is cause he keeps using his power. 

[Trini]

10 hours ago, SevenStars said:

Maybe the reason Cisco is not healing like he should is cause he keeps using his power. 

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I know that powers on this show are basically magical, but I still don't see how his powers would make a wound worse. At least not with anything they've said on the show so far. I know that want to show the effects of Cicada's attack, and remind us that Cisco can't be as powerful this year, but they can do that without the bandages, IMO.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

New meta fights Cicada in set photos: http://www.justjaredjr.com/2018/11/20/grant-gustin-films-scenes-for-the-flash-get-a-first-look-at-cicada/

[BeautifulFlower]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:43 PM, Trini said:

TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS THE 100TH EPISODE — In the 100th episode, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Team Flash come up with a plan to stop Cicada (Chris Klein). However, the plan calls for Barry and Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) to travel back in time to gather some key necessities. However, Barry hesitates, concerned about his daughter seeing certain parts of his life. Meanwhile, Sherloque (Tom Cavanagh) takes his concerns about Nora to Iris (Candice Patton), and Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) turns up a key asset in the fight against Cicada.

I keep thinking about this. What wouldn't he want Nora to see? Could it be him going into the speedforce in the season 3 finale? I'm pretty sure the museum wouldn't have something about that. Plus, I don't see anybody telling Nora about that. I can definitely see him hiding that. How would Nora feel knowing that Barry left his family behind once and it was INTENTIONAL?

[ursula]

24 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

What wouldn't he want Nora to see?

Savitar. 

[Kate45]

2 hours ago, ursula said:

Savitar. 

That’s exactly what I think it is as well. She didn’t know about him going to jail, so I’m also thinking that she doesn’t know about Barry’s time remnant being Savitar.

I’m also wondering if she knows about FlashPoint and how Barry created the situation of Iris nearly dying, and even before that knows that traveling back in time led to the situation that cause Henry to be killed. 

I’m thinking that she doesn’t know quite a bit about Barry’s decisions throughout his life. 

[Trini]

From the 100th (5.08) photos:

So fight scene with Flash, XS, Vibe (who is supposed to be 'dead'!) and Cicada?

So is this a "welcome back" hug, or a "good luck on your time trravel trip" hug?

---

I do want to be surprised, but I still wish we had more info on what past characters are showing up. I think all we know is that some past villains appear. I have my own list of who I want to see, but I doubt most if any will be back. Joe and Wally better be in this!

---

Also that line about Sherlogue's concerns about Nora is probably like one line or scene, maybe to cap the episode and set the next part of the season.

[Trini]

Flashtime preview for 5.07:

 

Looks like Weather Wizard gets out; does he stay out?

[Trini]

Still very vague about whether they'll go romantic with Cisco and Caitlin, but the parallels are still happening. From the 5.08 promo:

I mean the couples are literally mirroring each other.

---

But also from the promo: Teddy Sears/Zoom is back; so that's one confirmed guest star.

[adora721]

Ah!  Teddy Sears; loved him until he was revealed to be Zoom. Handsome dude!

Edited November 29, 2018 by adora721

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Still very vague about whether they'll go romantic with Cisco and Caitlin, but the parallels are still happening. From the 5.08 promo:

I mean the couples are literally mirroring each other.

---

But also from the promo: Teddy Sears/Zoom is back; so that's one confirmed guest star.

I'm so stoked about his return. I loved Zoom.

[ursula]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Still very vague about whether they'll go romantic with Cisco and Caitlin, but the parallels are still happening. From the 5.08 promo:

I mean the couples are literally mirroring each other.

Hasn't DP made it known time and time again that she is repulsed by the KillerVibe ship? Unless her influence has drastically reduced, I don't see this happening ever. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by ursula

[Trini]

15 hours ago, ursula said:

Hasn't DP made it known time and time again that she is repulsed by the KillerVibe ship?

Not that I've seen. Carlos/Cisco is her best scene partner, so I think it has potential, and a better option than bringing in yet another actor who may not stick around.

---

https://tvline.com/2018/11/29/greys-anatomy-spoilers-record-breaking-episode-longest-running-medical-drama/

Quote

Are we ever going to see The Flash‘s Barry deal with the fact that he’s going to disappear? –Jen

When we spoke with Grant Gustin during production of Episode 11 of Season 5’s 22, he ventured, “I think as we get closer and closer to the finale, it’s something we’re going to see him deal with…. I think that’ll be something that continues to pop up — until/if we get to a 10th season” (at which point it will be “time” for Barry to vanish).

Mmm yeah; I'm taking this as a "no, they haven't addressed it yet".