Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[adora721]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Fictional or not, that's not how split personalities work. Because of this, Caitlin's basically been absolved of all wrongdoings both on the show and in the fandom.

That, my dear, was the point. A free pass to villainy! I also think it was AJK's way of  providing angst for a potential SB romance. Can you imagine the sighs of utter delight if Barry brought his twu wuv Caitlin back to goodness from the clutches of KF?!! A kind of beauty and the beast in one person soothed by the love her Barry.

[Maverick]

 Seriously?  The Council of Wells again?   That shit was too over the top for Legends.  OK, well after the Legends finale that might not be true but the Council still sucked ass.  They're just a little too enamored with Tom Cavanaugh.  

[ruby24]

Yeah, going back to that well (in the same season no less) just screams that they're starved for ideas right now. Not good. Here's hoping they started teasing Dawn Allen so early in part because they actually do have a plan/story for Season 5 that they'd prefer to get to.

Although I maintain and I always will, that these kinds of shows need to go back to mainly episodic villain/action stuff, with ongoing character relationships/family stuff as the serialized part. With maybe a two or three parter to conclude seasons. Because the season long Big Bad formula is clearly not working out anymore, it's become tedious af and always ends up in the same exact formula every single year.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, adora721 said:

Another Todd Helbing interview: https://www.tvinsider.com/684116/the-flash-season-4-ralph-death-explained/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Quote

Well, we'll see. You know, right when they got to this place where they could interact and be cool with each other, she's gone. And you know Caitlin misses her. So she's gonna try to figure out how to get her back scientifically, if that's even possible. Maybe there's an emotional component to it. And she'll seek the help of Doctor Finkel at one point. And yeah, at the end of the season, we sort of explain that as far as how she works within Caitlin, Killer Frost isn't quite as simple as everybody thought.

Well, it'll be a season-and-a-half since they introduced this dual personality mess; the explanation better be good. But I doubt it will be.
 

Quote

Caitlin Snow is very much a scientist and things need to make sense to her. So there is part of it where it's like, 'Oh yes, when you spike your adrenaline, this happens, this is the result.' But it's not quite that simple. And so, as she goes on this journey to figure out exactly what causes her, she gets this answer that she wasn't expecting.

I like how he uses "journey" when it's going to be a one-episode subplot. But anyway, this is probably where the Young Caitlin spoiler comes in.
 

Quote

And how is the rest of the team affected by it? This is really the first time they've lost a teammate.

That's exactly what we wanted to [play]. They all feel different levels of responsibility — Barry the most because he's trained somebody who died on his watch. It's all about how you overcome a loss like that, how do you let that fuel you, and also, what Barry learns is he's not the only one dealing with that grief. You know, there's a future episode where it all comes to a head.

I think sometimes on network shows there's the sort of instinct to wrap these things up, but we made a conscious effort to spend multiple episodes [dealing with this]. It factors into the rest of the season. It's not just, oh, he dies in Episode 18 and that's the story and then they move on. It takes a while.

They really didn't have any of the other Team members be close to Ralph*, so I wonder who else is grieving Ralph? More than in general? Maybe Iris since she's the Leader? Caitlin via Killer Frost?? Cisco is a possibility, but I don't think it's him, since they're tying him to Harry's subplot.

*(It might have helped this season if he had made connections to 1 or 2 other people besides Barry.)

[I haven't watched 4.19 yet; maybe some of these questions get answered.]

Edited April 25, 2018 by Trini

[Katsullivan]

Honestly, I can only think of Iris because of all the others, she seemed to have the closest relationship with him separate from Barry, which isn't saying very much. 

[Kate45]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Well, it'll be a season-and-a-half since they introduced this dual personality mess; the explanation better be good. But I doubt it will be.
 

I like how he uses "journey" when it's going to be a one-episode subplot. But anyway, this is probably where the Young Caitlin spoiler comes in.
 

They really didn't have any of the other Team members be close to Ralph*, so I wonder who else is grieving Ralph? More than in general? Maybe Iris since she's the Leader? Caitlin via Killer Frost?? Cisco is a possibility, but I don't think it's him, since they're tying him to Harry's subplot.

*(It might have helped this season if he had made connections to 1 or 2 other people besides Barry.)

[I haven't watched 4.19 yet; maybe some of these questions get answered.]

I'm still trying to understand how HR, Ronnie, or Eddie don't count as people who died and were members of Team Flash?? How is Ralpy the first one?

[Trini]

17 hours ago, Kate45 said:

I'm still trying to understand how HR, Ronnie, or Eddie don't count as people who died and were members of Team Flash?? How is Ralpy the first one?

Yeah, I was eyeing that; but it's the interviewer, not Helbing, that presents it like that, and he only answers the first part about how the team is affected.

---

 

They better leave Cynthia alone! But which power is he using to choke(?) her? This looks like it's going to be a big Clifford/Marlize episode, as well as a big Cisco/Cynthia one.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Trini

[Trini]

"Therefore She Is" (4.20) photos are out; with lots of pics of the ladies! This may or may not turn out to be the better female-centric episode this season:

The touching photo trend is back!

[Trini]

From TVLine:

Quote

THE FLASH

PRE-FINALE: Team Flash thus far has “come up short trying to stop The Thinker,” notes EP Todd Helbing. “But after losing Ralph, they will do whatever they can to stop him.” That includes enlisting Gypsy (on May 1), the villainous Amunet (May 8) and Arrow‘s Diggle (May 15) to lend a hand. Also during this stretch, a despondent Harry gets a pep talk from The Council of Harrisons (aka “an emo version of The Council of Wells”), while Caitlin will endeavor to reclaim her chill. “At the end of the season, everybody will sort of understand what happened to Killer Frost,” says Helbing, “and if there is a possibility to get her back.”

SEASON FINALE (MAY 22): Echoing this season’s theme, the finale’s “We Are the Flash” title means “Barry doesn’t have to carry the burden of this challenge on his own. It’s really a group effort.” As for the showdown itself — which Helbing describes as “Inception-like” — “The way they attack The Thinker is totally different from anything we’ve seen before in a finale.” Oh, and remember the Speed Force-fluent waitress first spied at the WestAllen wedding, and multiple times since? “Everyone will get an answer to who exactly The Mystery Girl is, and how she plays into not only this season but next season.”

[Trini]

EW Spoiler Room:

Quote

What can you tease of Diggle’s appearance on The Flash? — Scott

You are going to see two very different sides of Diggle during the hour, as he plays into DeVoe’s upcoming plans for Fallout, who we know is in A.R.G.U.S. custody. “You get to see Diggle come in and tear through some A.R.G.U.S agents,” David Ramsey teases. “It’s always fun to go to Flash because Flash is all light.” Speaking of, there was a rather hilarious scene I witnessed on set when Diggle arrives in the Cortex. Let’s just say trashcans are involved.

I think Diggle is in 4.22?

[Trini]

On 4/25/2018 at 7:07 PM, Trini said:

As for the showdown itself — which Helbing describes as “Inception-like” — “The way they attack The Thinker is totally different from anything we’ve seen before in a finale.”

So the only people with mind-reading powers are Devoe[/Dominic] and Cecile; and Helbing had mentioned before that her powers would come into play later against DeVoe. Also, Cisco has vibed people into others dreams/minds before*, so I can see them combining his and Cecile's powers to get into DeVoe's mind.

 

*(Yes, it was a deus ex machina that has never been spoken of again, but it's still canon)

[Trini]

4.22 description:

Quote

"Think Fast"

DAVID RAMSEY GUEST STARS - When DeVoe assaults an A.R.G.U.S. facility to complete his Enlightenment Machine, Barry (Grant Gustin) realizes the only way he can stop him is if he allows Cisco (Carlos Valdes) and Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) to accompany him into the facility. Still shaken by Ralph's death, Barry isn't sure he wants to risk any more of his friends' lives and considers taking on DeVoe solo.

Viet Nguyen directed the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Kristen Kim

(#422). Original airdate 5/15/2018.

-----------------

So I only have 4.20 and the finale to look forward to.  ::SIGH::

This one is written by the writers that were responsible for some of the worst episodes this season - in my opinion - so I'm going to have to keep my expectations low. Which sucks for a penultimate episode.

I'll be glad to see Diggle, though; and maybe there's a subplot that's not in the description.

[Kate45]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

4.22 description:

-----------------

So I only have 4.20 and the finale to look forward to.  ::SIGH::

This one is written by the writers that were responsible for some of the worst episodes this season - in my opinion - so I'm going to have to keep my expectations low. Which sucks for a penultimate episode.

I'll be glad to see Diggle, though; and maybe there's a subplot that's not in the description.

And it's their first time writing together. Previous episodes they have written were with Lauren Certo (Kristen) and Judalina Neira (Sam). Hopefully, it's a good episode, but I'm doubtful. 

[Lady Calypso]

On 26/04/2018 at 9:35 PM, Trini said:

Barry isn't sure he wants to risk any more of his friends' lives and considers taking on DeVoe solo

Guys, he's pulling an Oliver!

The one writer, Sam Chalsen, has been 0/3 out of his episodes so far, so I don't expect his fourth one to go any better. I fully expect one of the women in this episode to act out of character and bitchy/mean in some way. Kristen Kim has not fared any better in her episodes either, from the ones that I saw, both in their entirety and in clips. Both of these writers are new this season. At least with Lauren and Judalina, they have previous episodes to prove that they aren't terrible writers. Lauren had Cause and Effect with Judalina last season, and that ended up being one of the stronger episodes of season 3. So, Sam and Kristen have more to prove. If they can write 4x22 differently than their other episodes, then that's a good thing.

[DearEvette]

Chalsen is one of the writers that stunk up Sleepy Hollow in Seasons 2 and 3.  So there you go.

[phoenics]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:23 PM, DearEvette said:

Chalsen is one of the writers that stunk up Sleepy Hollow in Seasons 2 and 3.  So there you go.

Ugh - I knew I remembered that name!  I couldn't figure out why the name triggered me - now I know.

[RedVitC]

Radio trailer for tomorrow's episode. It has some soundbites the TV promo doesn't have:

 

I don't have a source for this, but I've seen chatter that one of the paparazzi guys said during the filming of tomorrow's episode that Jessica Parker Kennedy (mystery girl) was filming! Can't wait!

Edited May 1, 2018 by RedVitC

[Trini]

On 4/3/2018 at 9:55 PM, Trini said:

TVLine's May Sweeps Scorecard 2018 is here!

Early guesses for Flash:

Number of characters giving birth:  - Cecile

Number of couples having sex, kissing or saying “I Love You” for the first time: - Not really any new couples on the show, but maybe ILUs for Cisco and Cynthia?

Number of weddings: - Joe & Cecile? I doubt it though.

Number of couples reuniting: - Since we haven't seen Cynthia since episode 4, would this count for Cisco/Cynthia?

Number of fatalities: - Well, The Thinker, and probably Marlize too. (But it would be a twist if she lived since they've always killed the Big Bads.)

Number of breakups/divorces: - Clifford/Marlize. Maybe Cisco/Cynthia, if they can't lock down Jessica Camacho as recurring.

Number of characters leaving town: - Harry goes back to Earth-2.

Number of resurrections and/or big returns: - Maybe some of the bus metas? Wally?

Number of onscreen firings/resignations/major job changes: Joe is the only one employed, but maybe Iris gets back to CCPN?

Bringing this back because this list counts for the last 4 episodes starting from this week.

And I'm adding Cisco to my predictions about 'Characters leaving town' -- I'm guessing he takes that job Breacher offered him for the summer. That should count for 'Major job changes' too.

Ralph and Killer Frost will be resurrected.

With (probably) Dawn Allen in the finale; maybe they'll do a time jump? It will probably be more like a flash-forward since I don't think they'd actually set next season in the future. (These writers/showrunners aren't good enough for that.)

[Trini]

4.21 photos are out; mostly Caitlin and Amunet, besides Barry/Flash:

Hopefully, they shed some more light on what was up with Caitlin/KF during the hiatus last summer, and have some closure (jail time) for Amunet.

[Trini]

'The Flash boss promises Mystery Girl answers in finale' -- quotes from Helbing, Grant and Danielle about Mystery Girl. Not a surprise, but I think this is the first confirmation that she is connected to the future.

Excerpts:

Quote

“You get the question answered as to who she is,” executive producer Todd Helbing tells EW of the upcoming season 4 finale. “There’s actually an extra little bonus where something happens where you’ll realize exactly how she’ll play a part in the future.”

Her identity actually plays into one of the two big cliffhangers closing out the season — the other setting up a new threat for season 5. “I’ve known since before we started this season,” Gustin says of her identity. “It’s been the thing that I’ve been most excited about all season, which sounds ridiculous because it’s really a season 5 thing. I’ve spent all of season 4 being excited about this thing that we’re going to do in season 5!”

Quote

Since Mystery Girl’s crossover debut, she’s popped at least twice more, the first of which saw her scribbling in a journal the same symbols Barry used upon exiting the Speed Force. But the teases go even further back than fans realize. “It’ll be one of the cooler reveals that we’ve done in a couple seasons,” Gustin says.

LOL! About the teases from far back; we've been speculating about "more diapers/Nora" since the premiere!

[Trini]

WAIT WHAT

 

A real double date? Or are they just speculating from this photo?? I'd love a double date with both these couples!

[RedVitC]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

'The Flash boss promises Mystery Girl answers in finale' -- quotes from Helbing, Grant and Danielle about Mystery Girl. Not a surprise, but I think this is the first confirmation that she is connected to the future.

Doesn't he just mean the future of the show rather than the future in the show? (But I also think she's from the future)

[Kate45]

55 minutes ago, Trini said:

WAIT WHAT

 

A real double date? Or are they just speculating from this photo?? I'd love a double date with both these couples!

I hope so! Candice and Jessica spent a good amount of time together during the filming of this episode, so I do think it's possible.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Doesn't he just mean the future of the show rather than the future in the show? (But I also think she's from the future)

I think it could mean both.

[wingster55]

So the thing Grant's been most excited about this season...is the transition into season 5? Shows what he thinks of this season so far.

[BeautifulFlower]

33 minutes ago, wingster55 said:

So the thing Grant's been most excited about this season...is the transition into season 5? Shows what he thinks of this season so far.

Yep. He barely promoted the show this season. Not even his prison arc. You can just tell that he was not impress with this season.

[Trini]

This episode looks so skipable.

 

How is Amunet immune to DeVoe powers??

[Trini]

Anyway, I assume the reason Mystery Girl/Dawn doesn't want to meet Iris (right now?) is because it would be too emotional for her. Her mother/Iris is the person that she knows the most, and maybe she thinks it would be too easy for her to reveal herself if she interacts with her directly.

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

How is Amunet immune to DeVoe powers??

How was that determined exactly ?  And why didn't Devoe steal her powers ?

[Trini]

http://tvline.com/2018/05/02/lucifer-season-3-spoilers-deaths/

Quote

In previewing the May 8 episode, titled “Harry and the Harrisons,” EP Todd Helbing explained that whereas The Council of Wells was “all about intelligence and being the smartest people in the universe,” The Council of Harrisons that Cisco rounds up to boost his colleague’s spirits “are ‘an emo version’ of the Council, so they teach Harry that there’s emotional intelligence that perhaps he should tap into.” And yes, this new council means new, fun performances by Tom Cavanagh. “Oh my God, it’s hilarious,” Helbing said with a hearty laugh. “There’s one in particular that he came up with that all of us loved.”

[Trini]

EW Spoiler Room:

Quote

The ultimate showdown between Team Flash and The Thinker is upon us, but it won’t go down the way you’re expecting. “It’s an Inception-inspired episode,” executive producer Todd Helbing says of the hour, which will feature two major cliffhangers — one reveals the Mystery Girl’s identity, while the other introduces a new threat. “Most people that are familiar with comics will probably be able to deduce who the big bad is for next season,” Helbing says. Guess we’ll need to, ahem, put on our thinking caps!

[Trini]

Yeah, don't expect me to be excited about a comic big bad, when y'all have messed up the last 3, Helbing. (They did do slightly better with the DeVoes this year.) Although I wonder how much they'll reveal of him/her/it since they've never really introduced the big bad for the next season in the finale before. (DeVoe was only mentioned by name.)

[ruby24]

I don't care at all about these Big Bads anymore. They're all exactly the same thing and follow the same formula. I'm sick of it. Change it up. Have three different villains throughout a season, do an episodic adventure season, anything else.

It doesn't even matter who it is, we all know exactly how it's going to play out, the same as it always does.

[Trini]

I think more than a better big bad, they need to have Barry have a journey/arc for the season. That is one thing I think was missing this season. The only thing was Barry adjusting to the new team dynamics which was only the focus for a couple of episodes.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Yeah, don't expect me to be excited about a comic big bad, when y'all have messed up the last 3, Helbing. (They did do slightly better with the DeVoes this year.) Although I wonder how much they'll reveal of him/her/it since they've never really introduced the big bad for the next season in the finale before. (DeVoe was only mentioned by name.)

This is another reason why I'm glad AJK is gone.  Todd will be sole showrunner next year and he seems like he actually knows stuff from the Flash comics

[wingster55]

Next season needs to be the season of the rogues. 

[adora721]

On 4/25/2018 at 4:07 PM, Trini said:

Echoing this season’s theme, the finale’s “We Are the Flash”

While chatting with a friend on Tumblr, I realized that there are two people on Team Flash currently working against this theme: Harry and Caitlin. Harry didn't listen to Cisco's warning and is losing his intelligence. Caitlin isn't going to listen to Iris' warning, but what will she lose? 

Now, Harry is being redeemed by working with Cisco and now Cecile; therefore, I suspect Harry will be back on board the, "We are the Flash" train.

At the same time, Caitlin has gotten off that train by declaring that, "No. I will." in response to Iris', "We will." DeVoe has also got off the team/ partnership train and lost Marlize in the process. So, at the moment, Caitlin has a lot more in common with DeVoe's "Me, myself, and I" mindset.

Unfortunately, there's noone that Caitlin is strongly tethered to that can help bring her back into the team mindset. Her relationship with Cisco has been almost nil this season. She doesn't really seem that close to Barry, the insta-friendship with Iris is flat, she wasn't that close to Ralph for his loss to really impact her, and her only deep conversations this season were with Harry. I don't think those two conversations created a strong tether, however. 

I found it odd that Amunet gave Caitlin a pep talk in 4x9 about how valuable she is as Caitlin Snow, and now we have Caitlin advising the team to get Amunet's help. The new photos seem to suggest yet another Amunet and Caitlin pep talk. I wonder if Caitlin will start to idolize Amunet as a strong woman. And will Amunet sorta turn Caitlin's moral compass toward a darker path?

Spoiler

This is only speculation, but I suspect that once Amunet is dispatched, Killer Frost will run Amunet's crime syndicate for next season.  Which, let's face it, we haven't seen enough of the crime syndicate members this season. This assumes that DP isn't written off or leaving the show.

Edited May 4, 2018 by adora721

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, adora721 said:

 

I found it odd that Amunet gave Caitlin a pep talk in 4x9 about how valuable she is as Caitlin Snow, and now we have Caitlin advising the team to get Amunet's help. The new photos seem to suggest yet another Amunet and Caitlin pep talk. I wonder if Caitlin will start to idolize Amunet as a strong woman. And will Amunet sorta turn Caitlin's moral compass toward a darker path?

  Hide contents

This is only speculation, but I suspect that once Amunet is dispatched, Killer Frost will run Amunet's crime syndicate for next season.  Which, let's face it, we haven't seen enough of the crime syndicate members this season. This assumes that DP isn't written off or leaving the show.

Ugh, I've seen the promo. They actually had Barry mentioned Amunet kidnapping Caitlin and the meta slavery thing, yet no one still never mentions Caitlin working with her. Whatever.

 

Anyway, I expect Caitlin to go bad or something. If the Mystery Girl is Barry/Iris daughter, Caitlin is not in her life. In 4x15, MG said she was meeting people for the first time which was obviously Harry and Caitlin.  Plus, the look she gave, no way is Caitlin in her life.

[Trini]

They're too scared to let Caitlin go bad - hence the killer Frost split personality mess. I don't have any speculations about the look Mystery Girl gave, though.

[BeautifulFlower]

I was mostly going by Mystery Girls words. She said she was meeting people for the first time and it was obvious who they were. IF she's meeting Caitlin for the first time, Caitlin either dies or leaves the team. Mystery Girl looks like an adult from her time. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Caitlin leaves the team (again).

[Trini]

Typically vague season finale description:

Quote

"We Are The Flash" -

SEASON FINALE - Team Flash gets help from a surprising ally in their battle against DeVoe (Neil Sandilands).

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Eric Wallace

(#423). Original airdate 5/22/2018.

[ruby24]

They are too chicken to let Caitlin go bad for real, and that's a real shame. There is SO much more they could do with her as a villain. 

[adora721]

26 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

They are too chicken to let Caitlin go bad for real, and that's a real shame. There is SO much more they could do with her as a villain. 

The irony is that DP does her best acting as the villain.

[BeautifulFlower]

The Flash: Can the team stop DeVoe?

Quote

Quote

After realizing that DeVoe (Neil Sandilands) plans to bathe Earth in so much dark matter that humanity is reduced to a simplified state, Barry (Grant Gustin) and the team are running out of options. Hence, they’ll actually turn to their former foe Amunet Black (Katee Sackhoff) for help during Tuesday’s hour.

“It’s just an example of Barry being in desperation mode,” Gustin tells EW. “I think anything that we can try that we haven’t tried, Barry is willing to try. We’re talking about the end of all of humanity as we know it. We need some kind of weapon that has no tech involved, because of DeVoe’s Kilgore powers, and Amunet fits that perfectly, so Barry’s willing to try. Iris [points out] that Barry’s always fought for every citizen in the city, because he knows that ultimately there’s good at the core of everybody, including Amunet.”

 

Iris journalism will come into play in 4x21

Quote

Quote

While Barry is forced to rely on an untrustworthy ally, he’ll also find pressure from his own team — specifically Iris (Candice Patton), who wants to be forthcoming about the looming threat that DeVoe poses, planning to use her blog to reveal the truth to the world about the Enlightenment Device. “Barry’s even more apprehensive about it at first,” Gustin says. “Barry doesn’t even want Iris to divulge to the citizens what’s going on with DeVoe at first — because she wants to blog again and be a reporter, which Barry supports and knows that that’s her journey, and is happy for her that she’s kind of back on that path. But then she wants to tell everyone about DeVoe and what’s happening, and it takes Barry a second to understand why that’s a good idea, why that maybe would benefit the city.”

Still, Gustin notes, it’s a matter of opinion, not trouble in paradise for the newlyweds. “There’s not really any real Barry-Iris drama — it’s Team Flash drama,” he says. “Barry and Iris are consistently approaching things from a different angle. But they’re still there supporting each other. It’s just that things are tense.”

 

[ruby24]

It'd be nice if these scenes between them did NOT take place in Star Labs. You know, like if they could have this conversation at home, while cooking dinner or in bed, or doing something that MARRIED COUPLES DO for once.

I won't hold my breath.

[Trini]

Okay, so they want to use Amunet (for what?) because she doesn't have tech-based powers, but she still is susceptible to all his other powers, right? 

[Trini]

Photos for 4.22 - "Think Fast" are out: with Diggle puking and a new stealth costume for Caitlin?

[BeautifulFlower]

32 minutes ago, Trini said:

Photos for 4.22 - "Think Fast" are out: with Diggle puking and a new stealth costume for Caitlin?

Look if she doesn't have her powers, there's no reason for Caitlin to be in the field. Is this the writers attempt to make her useful?

Also it is really, really, REALLY, ridiculous for a speedster to have non-speedsters as backup.

[ursula]

37 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Look if she doesn't have her powers, there's no reason for Caitlin to be in the field. Is this the writers attempt to make her useful?

 

Caitlin is Fetch to the Flash writers's Lacey Chabert.  

[adora721]

12 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Look if she doesn't have her powers, there's no reason for Caitlin to be in the field. Is this the writers attempt to make her useful?

 

I agree; why is she out there? Iris can box, fight, and handle a firearm. What can Caitlin do without her KF powers in the field? Doesn't that just make her a liability? No wonder Caitlin wants KF back; she knows that's her ace for getting out into the field.