Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[zannej]

On 2/10/2017 at 6:20 AM, legaleagle53 said:

Great, so now it's Jessie's turn to get the tar beaten out of her by Savitar.  Now I want to see Eobard Thawne meet up with him for a few rounds.  If Eobard's afraid of Black Flash now, imagine what he'll be like after Savitar kicks Eobard's ass all over the multiverse.

Well, if he's just beating him up and not trying to kill him, he might not be so scary. Also, Savitar has some intelligence and can be reasoned/negotiated with. I think that would make him a little less frightening.

Black Flash has the whole almost mindless Zombie speedster thing going on. There is nothing Eobard could say to talk him out of killing him. With Savitar he could at least have a conversation.

[cambridgeguy]

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Hmmm... would they actually have 3(!) speedsters on the show for more than 2 episodes? Wally and Jesse are cute together, but I don't know about her staying. Then again, it could just be a misdirect. Maybe she changes her mind by the end of the episode.

She'd be leaving Earth-2 without one its greatest (only?) heroes - an Earth which does have a fair number of evil metas (unless they were all rounded up after Zoom's season 2 stunt).  If anything Wally should be the one heading over since Barry is already there.  Apparently traveling between different realities is quick and easy if you're a speedster so it's not like he'd be saying goodbye to Joe and Iris forever.

Regardless, I think the finale will be all of the speedsters teaming up to take down Savitar.  We've already seen Barry, Jay, and Wally get their asses kicked so beating him solo seems unlikely.

[Karlophe]

Jessie and Wally are the sweetest and I think they're adorable together, so I am all for her staying with him on Earth-1, however briefly. With her going up against Savitar and him still not knowing the effects of his time in that cocoon or his rapidly developing powers, I'm doubtful their time together here will be at all easy. In my humble opinion, rude shocks are definitely coming their way. 

On the speculation side, imagine if the "Barry gets trapped in the speedforce" theory pans out, and the two of them join up to help the team get him out? Because that would be spectacular.

I'm agreed with @Trini though that 3 speedsters is untenable for more than a limited amount of time, but I've always thought Wally and Jessie should run off for a while and do their own thing - if only those live action Young Justice rumors were more than rumors. :sighs:

[Trini]

NOT liking this description!

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"The Wrath of Savitar" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, V) (HDTV)

SAVITAR VISITS WALLY - While training with Barry (Grant Gustin), Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale) starts to have visions of Savitar, which he hides from the team. A dangerous secret threatens Barry and Iris' (Candice Patton) happiness.

Alexandra La Roche directed the episode written by Andrew Kreisberg & Andrew Wilder
(#315). Original airdate 3/7/2017.

 

Secrets! ::shakes fist::

[Karlophe]

Noooo...!

Also, Wally. Well, we all knew it was coming. Has visions (again! which means he knows they're dangerous!), tells no one. It looks like he's now fully settled in to his family of secrets and lies. Oh, Wally. 

...Do you see what you've done, Joe? Barry and Iris may not have been the best examples of late, but they are the children you raised, and everything they learned about love meaning keeping secrets? They learned from you. 

Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy night.

[Trini]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:11 PM, Trini said:

A dangerous secret threatens Barry and Iris' (Candice Patton) happiness.

I want to speculate on this, but it's purposefully vague. Whose secret is it?? If it's something from Barry or Iris it's probably going to be something introduced it that episode. Could it be related to Rick Cosnett  coming back? Or it's another team member's secret??

Well, I was expecting some bumpy times for them later in the season, anyway.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Episode stills released of Grodd and Solovar:

[Trini]

Promo photos for "Attack on Central City" are out, and it looks like Valentine's day is happening on The Flash, too -- two weeks late, but still!

http://flashtvnews.com/the-flash-attack-on-central-city-official-preview-images/27917

[Trini]

3.16 episode description:

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"Into the Speed Force"

BARRY TURNS TO THE SPEED FORCE - Desperate to stop Savitar and save his friends, Barry (Grant Gustin) turns to the speed force for answers. H.R. (Tom Cavanagh) gives Jesse (guest star Violett Beane) some advice.

Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Brooke Roberts & Judalina Neira (#316). Original airdate 3/14/2017.

Which friends are in danger?? And I guess Jesse is staying for a while. Three speedsters is a bit much....

[legaleagle53]

On 2/23/2017 at 8:51 PM, Trini said:

3.16 episode description:

Which friends are in danger?? And I guess Jesse is staying for a while. Three speedsters is a bit much....

HR gives Jesse some advice?  Interesting.  I know he's supposed to be the annoying tool to end all tools and the show's comic relief, but he really does come up with some nuggets of wisdom when he's not trying so hard to be constantly "on."  I just wonder whether Jesse feels the same way about taking advice from a guy who looks like her dad but doesn't act or sound anything like him that Barry does about taking advice from Jay Garrick.

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello:

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Question: Anything you can tease about Iris’ role in the Supergirl/The Flash musical crossover? —Fowsia

Ausiello: “She plays a pretty key role in the musical episode. The story really centers around Iris,” co-showrunner Aaron Helbing tells Matt Mitovich. He then reiterated, “Aside from Barry and Kara, Iris plays a huge role in the musical.”

Well, I believe the Helbings way more than I do Kreisberg, but we'll see what their definition of "huge" is.

[Lady Calypso]

On 2/23/2017 at 10:51 PM, Trini said:

Which friends are in danger?? And I guess Jesse is staying for a while. Three speedsters is a bit much....

Jesse seems to be staying long enough to probably be the sacrifice near the end of the season. I know she won't stay while Wally and Barry are The Flashes in town, and I guess Wally will probably need his own manpain for next season (unless they surprise me, kill off Wally, send HR away, bring back Harry, and Joe/Iris get some good material) so I'm just waiting for the Savitar to drop in and kill Jesse (much like I waited for Henry's death all of season 2). 

As for the musical news, I'll...I'll believe it when I see it. I totally think they're just going to imply that Music Meister's some sort of key to Iris' future but that'll be the extent of it, not that it's really going to center around Iris and her POV. Sorry Legends of Flarrowgirl Verse, but I stopped trusting you in regards to female characters a long time ago. I've learned from my mistakes, alright? 

[Trini]

The show has so few female heroes, I don't think they'll kill off Jesse. However, I do think there's a good chance either Barry or Wally dies (or "dies") in Iris' place.

If they don't kill off Wally, I think Jesse/Earth-2 will be his exit (with option to recur) from the show. They can't have multiple speedsters long term.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Trini

[Chris24601]

I dunno, it could also be that they brought in Jesse because they're gonna go with Iris 'dying' in the finale. Killing Iris is a three-fer on the manpain (Barry, Joe and Wally) and things are just setting up way too pat for Barry/Iris. Even Wally or Joe dying in Iris' place wouldn't do more than slightly delay the wedding and Jesse dying wouldn't even be a speedbump to it.

Not that I expect Iris to stay dead. In the comics Iris got killed by a speedster but was resurrected in the 30th century and eventually reunited with Barry via time travel (which is how the Tornado Twins and Bart Allen/Impulse came about). But the route back could involve Iris having a plot for part of the season that doesn't let her interact with the rest of the cast other than Barry much so rather than having Caitlyn as the sole female in the 'present' next season they brought in Jesse a little early.

If they wanted to play with some of the comic lore, they might send Barry off to the future to reunite with Iris and deal with whatever's going on there while Wally and Jesse handle Central City in his absence. That would keep there from being too many speedsters in the same place (and having it take two junior speedsters to cover for veteran Barry keeps Barry special).

Worst case scenario for Jesse is probably going back to Earth 2 cause things don't work out with Wally. Killing her off basically ends their ability to organically bring in Harry when they need a smarter and more cynical Wells and I think they've nearly played out the 'new Wells every season' angle with HR being so off the wall (short of having the next one wear a bronie costume all season anyone they replace HR with will just feel like a Harry re-tread so why not just use the original alternate Wells?).

[Trini]

Promo pics for 3.15, "Wrath of Savitar":

[zannej]

I hope they don't kill any of them off. I'm sort of suspecting that Julian will end up being offed.

The most I've liked HR this season is when he's been interacting with Harry. The two of them together is just amusing to me-- but I know it must be a pita to film.

It would also be interesting if it turned out that Harry wasn't actually lying about being ill and that he just let Jesse think that so she wouldn't feel bad, but I'm guessing it was just a guilt-trip thing. I have to say Keiynan did a very good job of showing sympathy and I like that Wally didn't try to keep it a secret from Jesse. That was a good sign.

I got totally distracted and forget what else I was going to say.

[RedVitC]

Episode description for the musical episode (x):

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DARREN CRISS (“GLEE”) GUEST STARS AS THE MUSIC MEISTER IN THE FLASH AND SUPERGIRL MUSICAL CROSSOVER – Barry (Grant Gustin) and team are surprised when Mon-El (guest star Chris Wood) and Hank Henshaw (guest star David Harewood) arrive on their Earth carrying a comatose Supergirl (guest star Melissa Benoist) who was whammied by the Music Meister (guest star Darren Criss). Unable to wake her up, they turn to Team Flash to save her. However, the Music Meister surprises The Flash and puts him in a similar coma, one that Team Flash can’t cure. Kara and Barry wake up without their powers in an alternate reality where life is like a musical and the only way to escape is by following the script, complete with singing and dancing, to the end. Dermott Downs directed the episode with story by Greg Berlanti & Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Aaron Helbing & Todd Helbing (#317). Original airdate 3/21/2017.

[Trini]

So the musical takes place in a dream. But how does Music Meister cross dimensions??

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story by Greg Berlanti & Andrew Kreisberg

This is the only part I'm worried about.

[ruby24]

Well, didn't they also do the Supergirl crossover and Welcome to Earth-2? It could be good. I just think it's kind of a shame that it's basically one of those "it was all a dream" scenarios, because that means no one else is going to experience it besides Barry and Kara. And any dream versions of the other characters won't really be them.

[Trini]

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I just think it's kind of a shame that it's basically one of those "it was all a dream" scenarios, because that means no one else is going to experience it besides Barry and Kara. And any dream versions of the other characters won't really be them.

Yeah, I really would like to see Kara interact/talk with the rest of Team Flash. Especially Iris/Candice since she has rarely gotten to work with characters from the other shows.

7 hours ago, doram said:

Still finding my feet in this fandom, so can you please explain why? 

Oh, I just think he's bad at writing relationships, especially the romantic ones.

[RedVitC]

I just wonder what it is the Supergirl characters think Star Labs can do that will help Kara. Haven't characters on Supergirl been in coma-type states before? (I know there will probably be an explanation in the episode, but I can't help but wonder). Maybe because Music Meister is a metahuman and they think Earth 1 has more experience in dealing with those. But if he's a metahuman how did he get to their Earth. And how does he get to Earth 1?

There's probably no time, but I hope Kara and Iris get a quick scene where they talk about being Journalists. I do think we'll see the characters that are not in the dreamworld also interact with each other.

I think he episode could be fun, but it all depends on how they go about it. I remember an interview where I think Kreisberg said that the musical would have an effect on both shows moving forward because both Kara and Barry were grappling with a decision. Something like that.

[Maverick]

 Music Meister is mentioned in the future headlines, so he either is from Earth 1 or stays there.  

[Trini]

On 3/3/2017 at 3:41 PM, RedVitC said:

I think he episode could be fun, but it all depends on how they go about it. I remember an interview where I think Kreisberg said that the musical would have an effect on both shows moving forward because both Kara and Barry were grappling with a decision. Something like that.

Kreisberg's quote:

On 1/9/2017 at 5:16 PM, Trini said:

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Above and beyond what we reported on Sunday, EP Andrew Kreisberg said that the two-parter — which starts on Supergirl — will not feel like a standalone for either show. “What I always loved about what Joss Whedon would do with [Buffy’s] ‘Hush’ or ‘The Body’ is he’d have these very special episodes, but they were intrinsic to the ongoing storytelling. So when we get to the musical episodes,” Kreisberg previewed, “both Barry and Kara will find themselves at pivotal crossroads on their respective series, and the experience of going through the musical will have a great impact on both series moving forward.”

 

[Trini]

Mirror Master returning?

[Proteus]

Since Wentworth Miller said he's filming another episode of Flash, I wonder if we'll now get a proper showdown.

[Trini]

There have been set pics from paparazzi with the actor out already, but now they've announced who he is playing: 'Abra Kadabra is Coming to The Flash'

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DCComics.com can exclusively reveal that actor David Dastmalchian has been cast in the role of Abra Kadabra on The CW series and will be appearing on the show later this season. Described as a criminal from a distant future whose advanced technological powers seem like magic, the time-traveling Abra Kadabra (David Dastmalchian) holds a secret the Flash will stop at nothing to uncover.

 

So... he knows who Savitar really is?

[Maverick]

He knows what's in Big Belly Burger's secret sauce.

[Trini]

Promo photos for "Duet" :

 

I just wish we had more info on what's happening outside the dream sequence.

[Mellowyellow]

OMG!!!! Iris in that dress!!!!!! *swoons*

ETA: And I normally only swoon for Ray!

Edited March 8, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Trini]

I was already a little worried about Kreisberg having a part in the musical, now after "Wrath of Savitar", I gotta lower my expectations.

----------

Anyway, promo photos of 3.16, "Into the Speed Force": (Guest stars, ahoy!)

 

I know they try and avoid spoilers in the descriptions, but I think they should have mentioned Jay Garrick/JW Shipp was appearing.

[Trini]

On 3/7/2017 at 2:38 PM, Trini said:

 

 

Wally may be getting out of the speedforce soon, if that's him behind Cisco. On the other hand, when Barry was lost in there he was back by the next episode also. On the other other hand, Wally isn't the lead, so I thought they'd have him missing a little longer. But I guess they thought 2 rescue missions were too much to do for the rest of the season.

[Trini]

I knew he'd be temporary, but Eddie was sooooo underused while he was here. ::sigh::

------

Description of 3.18 is out:

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"Abra Kadabra" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DC COMICS' CHARACTER ABRA KADABRA VISITS CENTRAL CITY -

The Flash (Grant Gustin) battles Abra Kadabra (guest star David Dastmalchian), a villain from Earth-19, who makes him a tempting offer - release him and Abra Kadara will reveal Savitar's true identity. Desperate to save Iris (Candice Patton), Barry considers taking the deal but Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) breaches in to capture the villain for her own reasons and during the melee, Abra Kadabra manages to escape. Barry is furious that Gypsy interfered but Gypsy refuses to back down, forcing Cisco (Carlos Valdes) to take sides. Meanwhile, Julian (Tom Felton) is still a bit cold towards Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) but when she is severely injured in a battle with Gypsy, he rushes to her side.

Nina Lopez-Corrado directed the episode with story by Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Brooke Roberts & David Kob (#318). Original airdate 3/28/2017.

 

Gah! I don't want more fighting within the team. ....And wait -- Caitlin and Gypsy battle?

[Proteus]

Wow, more Gypsy already. I approve. But, does every appearence of hers have to start off as antagonistic?

Awww, Julian/Caitlin.

I will always miss Eddie.

[legaleagle53]

On 3/7/2017 at 0:38 PM, Trini said:

Promo photos for "Duet" :

 

I just wish we had more info on what's happening outside the dream sequence.

You just can't go wrong with old-school 1940s, glamour, can you?  And Iris looks positively dangerous in that clinging dress!

Edited March 9, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Trini]

From EW article about the musical:

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... Here’s how: As the Scarlet Speedster and Girl of Steel experience turmoil in their interpersonal relationships, they’re whammied by the Music Meister, a less mustache-twirling, more manipulative villain who causes victims to break into song. ...

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... Being fans of movie musicals as kids, the power-stripped heroes end up trapped in a golden-age send-up involving rival gangs and their kids falling in love — though expect many of the couples to come with a twist. The only way out? Follow the Meister’s script till the end. It may be a prison to them, but it’s heaven to Benoist. Noting she was born in the wrong era, the actress takes delight in the vintage ambience while sitting on a ’40s-era nightclub set. ...

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The Glee alums aren’t the only big names attached to the special episode. In a nod to Kara’s favorite film Wizard of Oz, everyone else in the vocally impressive cast is playing a character within this movie, from Jesse L. Martin, Victor Garber, and John Barrowman as rival mob bosses to Jeremy Jordan’s club pianist and Carlos Valdes’ aspiring artist busboy. Cherry-picking the movie musical genre — West Side Story, Singing in the Rain, and Guys and Dolls among the show’s inspirations — the hour also features some original songs, including “Runnin’ Home to You” from Oscar-winning La La Land duo Benj Pasek and Justin Paul, as well as the bubbly and playful Rachel Bloom co-penned tap duet “Super Friend.” “It’s a goofy song and it’s very consistent with that style of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend,” Gustin says.

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The episode also includes several covers, among them the Benoist solo “Moon River,” and an ensemble performance of Jackie DeShannon’s “Put a Little Love in Your Heart” that brings the denizens of the ’40s nightclub to their feet as the Meister conducts Jordan, Valdes, and John Barrowman in an epic, upbeat dance number choreographed by Glee’s Zachary Woodlee.

I'm looking forward to the song and dance numbers; everything else -- cautiously optimistic.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Ask Ausiello:

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“Slowly, different characters are going to learn who Savitar is,” Danielle Panabaker shared during my visit to the set last week. “But I don’t know if the audience is going to be told anytime soon.” Grant Gustin meanwhile told me, “It’s not the same as past reveals,” explaining, “With Zoom and Reverse-Flash, the audience was starting to realize things before we all started to piece it together. But I don’t know how you would know this year. And when you do find out, it’s like, ‘Oh. My. God!’ There are really no secrets or hints leading up to to it.”

Yeah, it looks like they're keeping the reveal until the last few episodes. Eh, I don't know about there not being any hints, I think they have given us some. But if there really weren't any hints that'd just be bad writing, and unfair to the audience.

[Trini]

From the TV Line interview with Candice:

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TVLINE | The producers told me that Iris plays a huge role in the musical crossover with Supergirl (airing Tuesday, March 21).
Yeah! I saw that article, and I didn’t really think of it that way, but yeah, she’s a big part of it because this is her first crossover ever. Although I don’t thinks she’s technically crossing over….

TVLINE | She’s being “crossed over” [by some Supergirl cast].
She’s being “crossed over,” yeah. We get to see Iris as a completely different character — new name, new everything. Barry is whammied by the Music Meister and both him and Kara are in this dream-like state where they envision a world where… Iris is this fast-talking, brash daughter of a mobster. It’s a wig that we put on, and I was very much inspired by [Dick Tracy‘s] Breathless Mahoney. It’s just fun for us to do something different, because Iris usually has that “girl next door” thing going on. Even the sets we’re in are so glamorous and kind of 1940s-style. It’s really fun.

[Trini]

Quote from Variety's Candice interview:

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“You’ll see two versions of Iris in the episode,” she said. “The Iris that we know and love, and a person they [Barry and Kara (Melissa Benoist)] think is Iris but is actually a completely different character named Millie. She’s the sassy daughter of two gangsters — played Victor Garber and Jessie Martin — and she’s madly in love with Mon-El’s character (‘Supergirl’s’ Chris Wood), whose name is Tommy. They’re fighting for their love, because both of their families do not want them to be together.”

Wait-- so are Garber and Martin playing a couple?

Edited March 14, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

More promo photos for "Duet"

[Maverick]

It's a stretch but I can buy Stein there since he worked with Team Flash, but why would Malcolm--who Barry barely knows and Kara doesn't know at all--be part of their dream world?

[ruby24]

You know, I'm actually wondering if they orchestrated this WA split on purpose in terms of timing, because they knew that the musical episode was going to be about Barry and Kara's relationship problems.

Therefore, there was a direct order that they had to be break up at this particular moment (before episode 17), even if they had no reason for it.

[RedVitC]

I have to say I'm looking forward to the musical episode! The premise sounds interesting and I love musicals. Plus I hope that things will start looking up for Barry and Iris. At the very least we get to see Candice play Millie!

I know not everyone is happy about the idea of a musical episode, but I think it could be a good breather before we head into the last stretch of episodes.

[Trini]

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

You know, I'm actually wondering if they orchestrated this WA split on purpose in terms of timing, because they knew that the musical episode was going to be about Barry and Kara's relationship problems.

Therefore, there was a direct order that they had to be break up at this particular moment (before episode 17), even if they had no reason for it.

It's a possibility. If they reconcile right after the musical, that could be a confirmation.

[ruby24]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

It's a possibility. If they reconcile right after the musical, that could be a confirmation.

Or even if Barry just changes his mind.

[Karlophe]

On 3/14/2017 at 2:42 PM, Trini said:

Quote from Variety's Candice interview:

Wait-- so are Garber and Martin playing a couple?

So Mon-El must be the son of Malcolm, then. Victor Garber, Jesse L. Martin, and John Barrowman as three mob daddies singing together and trying to take each other out with tommy guns? I'm literally weeping with joy. Next Tuesday can't come soon enough!

[mj2000]

I guess I'll just call this an "I Wish Spoiler."

 

To begin with, I do not see need for 3 speedsters. The only good part is that there is a female. With that said, I do not understand why Jessie is the only female allowed to use her powers. Caitlin also has powers, but cannot use them. Enter my gripe! My solution is this:

With Jessie moving on, we do need another female with powers. I think Caitlin should be this person. Although it is written that her alter "Killer Frost" is evil, we have seen her struggle but overcome the evil (saving Iris a few episodes ago by freezing her arm). When everyone else got their powers, we watched them practice. Why cant Caitlin practice her control? I see her as being very valuable. There have been several instances when freezing the villain to allow him to be captured would have worked. She can remain unpredictable to a point but also be a hero. Also she can still perform her duties as Caitlin Snow.

[Proteus]

I have to disagree with this. I don't think the show is trying to set up Caitlin's path to ultimately be a villain. I think they are trying to do Killer Frost while keeping Caitlin pure. That's the whole point of the split personalities. They can have Caitlin do bad things but none of them being her fault.

Other characters lives matter besides Iris' so I understood why Caitlin kept the stone.

I think eventually Caitlin will learn to control her powers since I don't see them making her a villain long term.

[RedVitC]

I don't know if these are really spoilers, but just in case. Some Journalists/critics(?) have seen the musical episode and love it:

 

 

[Trini]

I figured the musical would be fun, but way to have two depressing episodes before it, Flash writers.

[RedVitC]

Some more reactions to the musical:

 

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by RedVitC