S05.E08: Coda

[Yolapukka]

 

Exactly why I felt so awful for Emily Kinney having to sit next to him in the midst of her little emotional breakdown...

 

 

I think having that particular combinations of guests was graceless and tone-deaf as hell. I don't think it says anything negative about the character of either Emily Kinney or Robert Kirkman that she was weepy and he was awkward. I don't believe it was a well-thought-out idea to put someone recently fired next to someone who had a hand in firing them and expect a warm, seamless interaction, especially when the ex-employee had a strong emotional bond with their co-workers based on the considerable time they spent together on and off set. She was there to discuss being written out and killed off, there was bound to be some sadness. I suspect having him next to her made talking about her departure more of a strain than it needed to be and there is no right thing to say or do when you find yourself parked next to someone crying because their job ended and your decisions were part of why that happened. Two different people might have handled it a bit more smoothly than these two but it was unlikely to be less than uncomfortable.

 

I'm not a fan of killing off characters just because it's the finale, whether season or mid-season. unless it's a villain being vanquished, it feels cheap. Part of that is because this show is so character-based that we miss out on seeing the cast respond in subsequent episodes and see how it informs their actions, as we did with Bob's death and those scenes work better while the audience is still feelling the impact themselves.. Moreover,  it's predictable, and I think one thing I should be able to expect in a show about the zombie apocalypse is that death not be predictable, I should not be anticipating death because it's a mid season finale and it's especially irksome because Beth died for stupid reasons when she stabbed her armed enemy with teensy scissors because Dawn pissed her off. I was not a fan of Beth, but as deeply flawed as those two Very Special, very tiresome episodes that focussed on Beth were, I think they at least succeeded in that they made a good case for her being a viable character in the ensemble, at least when they were showing rather than telling us why that was the case. It was annoying to have all that time be spent just to up the emotional stakes in her death, especially when the writing negected obvious, important beats like Maggie having any sort of strong emotional reaction until her sister was permanently lost to her.

[Mattipoo]

Speaking of which, I feel like Daryl is spray tanned to hell and back, and has obviously worked out his arms at the gym so he can wear his sleeveless vests. And has dyed his hair Clairol dark brown (from blonde/light brown). It is especially obvious this episode during the Grady rescue scenes. I think AL is hot for being natural, but Daryl is just another "spray tanned silicone beauty in tight jeans and wet t-shirt lumbering around the ZA jungle" (paraphrasing an earlier poster) albeit a male version.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mattipoo

[JackONeill]

So, on a lighter note, I noticed in the rerun last night that Rick used a machete to kill the main-bad-ass-prison dude.  (I mean, I saw the scene when it first aired, but I'd forgotten "the machete.")  Question:  Is that the machete that Rick used to kill Gareth?  I didn't see the red-handle; then again, I didn't the handle at all.

 

Next question: Has Rick been carrying that machete all along?

 

Last question: Where have I been?

[The Mighty Peanut]

Based on what fills up the extra ten minutes of Game of Thrones, we'd mostly be seeing breasts, rape, and people talking about killing beetles. 

 

So basically the hospital with more tits. 

[Nashville]

So basically the hospital with more tits.

No thanks. Never wanted to see Gorman's breastage.

[AngelaHunter]

The only reason I wouldn't want it on HBO is because they would feel the need for gratuitous sex and nudity, just because they could.

 

I dislike gratuitous anything, including graphic violence, but at least on HBO Rick would have been allowed to use the F-bomb (which that scene REALLY needed) because apparently people who watch those premium channels don't get a bad case of the vapors and keel over at a mere word.

[Pestilentia]

I dislike gratuitous anything, including graphic violence, but at least on HBO Rick would have been allowed to use the F-bomb (which that scene REALLY needed) because apparently people who watch those premium channels don't get a bad case of the vapors and keel over at a mere word.

 

Come on- we all heard it in our heads the way it should have been said  :)

[NoWillToResist]

I dislike gratuitous anything, including graphic violence, but at least on HBO Rick would have been allowed to use the F-bomb (which that scene REALLY needed) because apparently people who watch those premium channels don't get a bad case of the vapors and keel over at a mere word.

 

Why is it that AMC allows such graphic violence and adult content yet doesn't allow F bombs?

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Why is it that AMC allows such graphic violence and adult content yet doesn't allow F bombs?

 

It's not just AMC. AFAIK, no American channel/show will allow adults to hear that word, although watching throats being slit is A-okay.

 

Anyway, for anyone who missed it, this is what we should have been given:

 

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6l6-2fU584[/YT]

[walnutqueen]

I dislike gratuitous anything, including graphic violence, but at least on HBO Rick would have been allowed to use the F-bomb (which that scene REALLY needed) because apparently people who watch those premium channels don't get a bad case of the vapors and keel over at a mere word.

 

The non-premium TV world needs a few more "loopy fucking cunt" references, for sure.   ;-)

 

 

Why is it that AMC allows such graphic violence and adult content yet doesn't allow F bombs?

 

What IS it about American TV that's so puritanical yet violent?  Could it be a learned societal proclivity?   Canadian curiosity here, not trying to be glib (disabled arms = less typing = brevity).  :-) 

 

Even with the restrictions of airing on AMC, I can honestly say I enjoy TWD just as much as I do an HBO series like GoT (and a cable offering like Z Nation - I embrace diversity!).  I miss the swearing, sure, but I'm so fucking foul-mouthed I make up for every unuttered curse tenfold.  :-)

 

The final scene of this episode really did devastate me, even when I watched it again.  "Winning" (i.e. surviving) always comes at a price - some of us just have to pay a little more than others, ZA or not.  And every time your heart breaks, you think you can't bear it, yet every time it does, you find another piece of your heart to give.  This show reminds me so much of all the stories I heard about WWII from my family.  The running, the fear, the bad people you meet along the way, and the good ones who help, no matter the risk ... and then, always, the inevitable loss.  I saw WWII through the lens of my mother's eyes, and she was a tween at the time, so I have a certain bias that allows me to empathize with these people and their actions.  And ... because monsters are real - now as much as then, and it's easier to watch this horror than contemplate the real thing.  [/bummer walnutqueen]

[NoWillToResist]

It's not just AMC. AFAIK, no American channel/show will allow adults to hear that word, although watching throats being slit is A-okay.

 

Seriously, what the actual fuck? Viscera can be thrown around like streamers and blood can spurt out of arteries like a volcano erupting, but "fuck" is some line that tv won't cross?

[CletusMusashi]

People are weird about "the F word." I've never understood why, but it runs insanely deep.

Trying to tell a swear-nanny that it's just a word is about as productive as trying to change someone's religion.

[NoWillToResist]

So you can show two people fucking, you can show a guy WATCH two people fucking, but you can't say "fuck"? American logic at work. ;)

[AngelaHunter]

Viscera can be thrown around like streamers and blood can spurt out of arteries like a volcano erupting, but "fuck" is some line that tv won't cross?

 

Really, I couldn't watch when the throats were being cut at Terminus. The word "fuck" bothers me not at all and it wasn't even being used in a sexual way, although I don't get the big deal about that either. I know people do allow their children to watch this show (yeah, that's terrible) but are they going to harmed more by a simple word that they probably hear every day, or by watching someone's skull being halved by a machete?

 

Torture porn is "in" as long as no one drops any "F" bombs while they're being gutted. Oh well...

[JackONeill]

I've used it, so I may sound like a hypocrite, but to me, it sounds . . . crude.  It's like someone who uses "ain't" or who asks "where's he at?"   Makes my skin crawl.

 

I do agree that Rick should have used fuck rather than screw.  But the problem is, once you use it once, then you start using it all the time.  And that makes for sloppy conversations.  Instead of actually saying what you mean, you resort to simple words of emotion.  That's my "high-brow" take.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JackONeill

[NoWillToResist]

I've used it, so I may sound like a hypocrite, but to me, it sounds . . . crude.  It's like someone who uses "ain't" or who asks "where's he at?"   Makes my skin crawl.

 

I do agree that Rick should have used fuck rather than screw.  But the problem is, once you use it once, then you start using it all the time.  And that makes for sloppy conversations.  Instead of actually saying what you mean, you resort to simple words of emotion.  That's my "high-brow" take.

 

And I can generally appreciate the "high-brow" take, but this is a zombie show where blood and viscera fly with giddy abandon so I'm not sure "high-brow" really applies here. :)

Meh, it's a moot point but the violence=good, "fuck"=bad combo has never made sense to me. I don't know how tv justifies one and not the other...

[Iguessnot]

So, on a lighter note, I noticed in the rerun last night that Rick used a machete to kill the main-bad-ass-prison dude.  (I mean, I saw the scene when it first aired, but I'd forgotten "the machete.")  Question:  Is that the machete that Rick used to kill Gareth?  I didn't see the red-handle; then again, I didn't the handle at all.

 

Next question: Has Rick been carrying that machete all along?

 

Last question: Where have I been?

I watched that episode yesterday also. What struck me was that the big dude got poked in the back by the zombie who made great efforts to get out of his handcuffs instead of just biting. Anyway, the big dude was not bit. but poked, yet they only discussed him being bit.  Wish the twop boards were up do I could read the discussions about this.

[walnutqueen]

I've used it, so I may sound like a hypocrite, but to me, it sounds . . . crude.  It's like someone who uses "ain't" or who asks "where's he at?"   Makes my skin crawl.

 

I do agree that Rick should have used fuck rather than screw.  But the problem is, once you use it once, then you start using it all the time.  And that makes for sloppy conversations.  Instead of actually saying what you mean, you resort to simple words of emotion.  That's my "high-brow" take.

 

My low brow take is that every "genius" or PhD I've ... met ... has used the word eloquently and for emphasis, and this usage has not led down the slippery slope of ignorance.  The only people who told me swearing was a sign of (un)intelligence were not  that intelligent themselves, so I take the criticism with a boulder of rock salt.  Of course, these were the same people who shamed me for my "high brow" vocabulary way back when, so I may be overcompensating for some childhood trauma.   I speak like a guttersnipe now.   ;-)

 

Believe you me, a proper English accent can make "fuck" and every variant thereof sound posh and refined to these ears.  Because I loved an Englishman, way back when, and he sounded smart and wonderful almost all the time, even whilst swearing and being rather silly (for a "genius")!   :-D

 

Now if only Rick could use his natural accent, I might be as in lurve with him as some other fans are.  Sigh, only in my dreams, or on the rare occasion I see him on TTD. 

 

I just realized I composed an entire post without using a curse word - that must be a record for me.  ;-)

[kikismom]

So, on a lighter note, I noticed in the rerun last night that Rick used a machete to kill the main-bad-ass-prison dude.  (I mean, I saw the scene when it first aired, but I'd forgotten "the machete.")  Question:  Is that the machete that Rick used to kill Gareth?  I didn't see the red-handle; then again, I didn't the handle at all.

 

Next question: Has Rick been carrying that machete all along?

 

Last question: Where have I been?

 

 

I watched that episode yesterday also. What struck me was that the big dude got poked in the back by the zombie who made great efforts to get out of his handcuffs instead of just biting. Anyway, the big dude was not bit. but poked, yet they only discussed him being bit.  Wish the twop boards were up do I could read the discussions about this.

What I noticed was that it was a big teddy-bear black guy quietly backing out while his compadres were making hash out of the walkers.

Beta-test for Tyreese? Or Kirkman just has some incomprehensible point he thinks he's making?

Edited December 11, 2014 by kikismom

[Raven1707]

Many pages ago, someone asked what Lamson was saying in the opening scene of Coda. If someone else has already answered this, I apologize for the duplication, but here is the transcript:

 

Rick: (Using the PA function on patrol car radio) “Stop. Stop right now.” (Lamson keeps running) “Stop. I won’t ask again.” (When Lamson continues to run, Rick accelerates)

Lamson: “Oh shit!”  (Hit by patrol car, thrown forward)  “Ahh...son of a bitch. You son of a bitch...help me.”
(Rick exits vehicle eventually)
Lamson: “Son of a bitch. Help me. You crazy...you crazy son of a bitch...I think you...I think you broke my back.”
Rick: “It didn’t have to be like this.” (Pause) “You just had to stop.”
Lamson: “I couldn’t. I don’t know you. But I think...I think I’m getting the idea.”
Rick: “You just had to stop.”
Lamson: “Take me back. Take me back to the hospital. I did it...for your friend.”
Rick: “Not after this, no. Can’t go back, Bob.”
Lamson: “I was gonna iron it over. She’s under it. And you’ve been out here too long. You’ll die, you’ll all–”
Rick shoots Lamson in the head.
Rick: “Shut up.”

Edited December 12, 2014 by Raven1707

[Pete Martell]

So you can show two people fucking, you can show a guy WATCH two people fucking, but you can't say "fuck"? American logic at work. ;)

 

You really don't see much fucking either. It's not that type of show. I'd go as far as to say if characters did start saying "fuck," there would be less backlash for it than sex scenes. 

What I noticed was that it was a big teddy-bear black guy quietly backing out while his compadres were making hash out of the walkers.

Beta-test for Tyreese? Or Kirkman just has some incomprehensible point he thinks he's making?

 

Considering that show Tyreese bears little resemblance to the character Kirkman wrote, I'm not sure it has that much to do with him. I assume the guy in that episode was quiet and low-key so we'd be more upset when the ringleader casually slaughtered him to prove how bad-ass he was.

[BrokenRemote]

That didn't bother me. He's a really white English boy! But didn't he have hair on his chest once? Maybe that mighty beard sucked all the follicles from everywhere else.

What has always annoyed me on this show is the utterly, obviously fake animals they use. Every time I saw Daryl with the dead squirrels or a rabbit, it made me roll my eyes. Cringeworthy. What's the budget for the animals on this show anyway? 1.99$ per episode? They looked like grade school children made them from papier mache and covered them with old felt. How much would it cost to make a few fake-fur covered bags stuffed with a pound of sawdust and give the critters the appearance of having once been alive?

In a recent Talking Dead episode--I believe the one where they found Gabriel--they asked in the stupid quiz thing how many squirrels Daryl had slung over his shoulder. Then the little factoid they showed after said they were real squirrels. I remember so strongly because it upset me that they'd use real animals. When I'm at a computer I'll see if I can find it.

[walnutqueen]

In a recent Talking Dead episode--I believe the one where they found Gabriel--they asked in the stupid quiz thing how many squirrels Daryl had slung over his shoulder. Then the little factoid they showed after said they were real squirrels. I remember so strongly because it upset me that they'd use real animals. When I'm at a computer I'll see if I can find it.

 

Oh hell, NOES, they di'n't.  PETA & me would be all over that shite, right?!?  I will NOT look up one more thing to outrage me, I swear!

[AngelaHunter]

I remember so strongly because it upset me that they'd use real animals.

 

The only animal that looked real to me was the snake Daryl killed and skinned. I got upset and searched for an answer to this, but couldn't find one.

 

These days, I'm pretty sure it's forbidden to harm most bugs to make TV shows/movies, at least in North America. If any real squirrels were used (and they looked like the fakiest fakes to me) they'd probably be roadkill.

[Pete Martell]

The only animal that looked real to me was the snake Daryl killed and skinned. I got upset and searched for an answer to this, but couldn't find one.

 

These days, I'm pretty sure it's forbidden to harm most bugs to make TV shows/movies, at least in North America. If any real squirrels were used (and they looked like the fakiest fakes to me) they'd probably be roadkill.

 

I think that was a real snake, and what they were seen eating was eel, but I can't remember.

[kikismom]

It may be allowed for the show to use animals that are farm-raised for consumption by permit. (rabbits for instance). Or they could have used squirrel kills by a local hunter as they did not kill it themselves.

It's a tricky rule: for example, a pet store could not kill pets...except they are allowed to raise and feed live mice or rats to snakes because snakes don't care for cold dead mice and there's no Purina Python Chow.

Edited December 12, 2014 by kikismom

[kikismom]

The only animal that looked real to me was the snake Daryl killed and skinned. I got upset and searched for an answer to this, but couldn't find one.

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/03/05/daryl-dixon-hunts-snake-snake-happy-to-meet-him-1265006?lt_source=external,manual

 

http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/03/calm-down-daryl-did-not-kill-a-real-snake-on-the-walking-dead/

[Pestilentia]

 

The "they're screwing with the wrong people" line would have only been minimally helped by substituting "fucking", in my opinion.  It was the melodramatic pause that preceded the line.  I was expecting Rick to whip out an AK-47, kick the boxcar door open, produce a walkie talkie and say "Mr. President", or something along those lines.  What a letdown that sentence was, following an otherwise amazing finale.

 

I didn't find it a letdown at all.

I thought it was magnificent.

[walnutqueen]

It may be allowed for the show to use animals that are farm-raised for consumption by permit. (rabbits for instance). Or they could have used squirrel kills by a local hunter as they did not kill it themselves.

It's a tricky rule: for example, a pet store could not kill pets...except they are allowed to raise and feed live mice or rats to snakes because snakes don't care for cold dead mice and there's no Purina Python Chow.

 

HEE!  Snakes better get the fuck over themselves, if they want a shot at being "saved", because even fussy little baby barn owls learn to love the taste of previously frozen baby mice !!!  (#worst part of saving baby raptors is feeding them).  :-)

[editorgrrl]

http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/03/calm-down-daryl-did-not-kill-a-real-snake-on-the-walking-dead/

The article is called "Calm Down! Daryl Did Not Kill A Real Snake On The Walking Dead," and it states:

[T]he Human Society is present during any Walking Dead scenes involving animals.

[Mu Shu]

I wish the Human society would give Rick a flea bath. 

[BrokenRemote]

http://www.ecouterre.com/walking-deads-norman-reedus-calls-for-ban-on-animal-tests-for-cosmetics/cruelty-free-international-norman-reedus-1/

The commenters on this article about Norman Reedus supporting a cruelty-free cosmetics campaign feel it's kind of hypocritical given they saw the same TD factoid about how he carries real dead squirrels around on during filming.

Sample of the article:

Norman Reedus is spoiling for a fight. The television actor, who plays crossbow-wielding zombie-killer Daryl Dixon on AMC’s The Walking Dead, has joined Cruelty-Free International in calling for a ban on cosmetics testing on animals in the United States...

Sample comment:

Norman should be spoiling for a fight with himself and the show he stars in, ‘The Walking Dead.’ In the last show he was seen carrying five dead squirrels. On the ‘Talking Dead’ show that followed, it was explained that the dead squirrels were actual real squirrels. With all the special effects and sophisticated props and makeup the show uses, it seems there would be little difficulty for the producers to come up with authentic looking fake squirrels.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Does this mean than it was a real dead squirrel that Norman ate?  Did they at least check for rabies?

 

Squirrels don't get rabies, but anyone who ate the raw innards of a squirrel might find themselves plagued with tapeworms. Just ask my cat!

 

 

ETA:

My personal favorite Debraism was "Holy Frankenfuck!"

 

"Fuck me in both ears" is another fave of mine.

Edited December 12, 2014 by AngelaHunter

[walnutqueen]

Squirrels don't get rabies, but anyone who ate the raw innards of a squirrel might find themselves plagued with tapeworms. Just ask my cat!

 

 

ETA:

"Fuck me in both ears" is another fave of mine.

 

 

First = eeeeew!  "Wormy cat, wormy cat, what are they feeding you?"

 

And "fuck me to tears" has been replaced with "fuck me in both ears".  :-)

[HalcyonDays]

I notice you guys are starting to wander off topic then back on, then off, like a wave. Unfortunately some of the discussions here slightly apply to THIS thread, then waver into Small Talk thread, then into general WD talk, then back into Coda, then into something else, half related to The Walking Dead, half not.

 

Some of your posts, I am going to move to Small Talk thread (possibly the the Debra/Dexter stuff, skin that flames on contact with the sun, swearing stuff), since it belongs more there.

 

I wonder if we need a Season 5 Hiatus Talk thread - to discuss the season overall and what's happened, over the many episodes....?? Becuase at this point, this thread is wavering seriously off topic at times.

 

ETA: Okay, moved a fair amount of posts to Small Talk. Some stayed in this thread as the posts also included Coda talk, and kept with the flow. The posts I moved to Small Talk for the most part keep with the flow. BrokenRemote and AngelaHunter, I've deleted your posts about "Should go into Small Talk thread",  as they are no longer needed.

 

Again, please take discussions to the appropriate threads. This is for the episode talk, if not, go to the Speculation thread or individual character threads or the Small Talk thread. Please and Thanks!

[The Mighty Peanut]

So you can show two people fucking, you can show a guy WATCH two people fucking, but you can't say "fuck"? American logic at work. ;)

Hey now, no need to cheapen the moment with coarse language. Rosita and Abe weren't fucking. They were getting some ass.

Edited December 20, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[AngelaHunter]

Rosita and Abe weren't fucking. They were getting some ass.

 

Abe was getting "some ass". I don't know what Rosita would call it.

[kikismom]

Abe was getting "some ass". I don't know what Rosita would call it.

They call it "Girl Riding Dolphin".         

[walnutqueen]

Abe was getting "some ass". I don't know what Rosita would call it.

 

Dolphin smooth.  Fer sure.

[kikismom]

How's your "Little Flipper?"

[AngelaHunter]

Dolphin smooth.  Fer sure.

 

Just when I had successfully blocked that dolphin stuff out of my head. Ew at the mental images.

[GreyBunny]

Dolphin smooth.  Fer sure.

 

"They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,.."

[CarpeDiem54]

You people are sick. I love y'all!

[walnutqueen]

"They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,.."

 

I've been humming that theme music all day.  I so loved that show when I was a kid.  Then somebody had to tell me about dolphin gang rape.  :-(

[Iguessnot]

Oh my. I had to google that. Saw the video with the frisky dolphin and female scuba swimmer. Of course that reminded me of this hilarious video of the frisky canine and older lady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B79j4OJTnJQ

[Milaxx]

I wonder if we need a Season 5 Hiatus Talk thread - to discuss the season overall and what's happened, over the many episodes....?? Becuase at this point, this thread is wavering seriously off topic at times.

 

Makes sense or even just moving over to the meet market would work.

[SoSueMe]

 

I can't believe how much I enjoyed Z Nation.  Maybe because I didn't really expect much going in.

I agree. I just watched the Z Nation marathon today and appreciated it all over again. Even with the goofiness the actors did a great job and there was not one regular character I found myself hating. I can't say that about TWD (and I'm not referring to villains that we're supposed to hate).

[Nashville]

I agree. I just watched the Z Nation marathon today and appreciated it all over again. Even with the goofiness the actors did a great job and there was not one regular character I found myself hating. I can't say that about TWD (and I'm not referring to villains that we're supposed to hate).

 

I expect that may have been because the Z Nation writers and actors, figuring they quite possibly might have only one season to make an impression, decided to go for broke on all fronts - including humor.

 

ETA: Gotta admit - it's a niche TWD rarely touches.  :)

Edited January 3, 2015 by Nashville

[kikismom]

Although I don't agree with the writer's take on Beth and Sasha, the rest of this article about Coda is very true IMHO.

 

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-walking-dead/community/post/the-walking-dead-season-5-episode-8-coda-review-141695296982/

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Beth stabbing Dawn was so forced, so obviously a way for the show to kill someone off, that it completely undermined the emotional impact of Daryl weeping and carrying Beth's corpse out of the hospital or Maggie falling to her knees in agony. While they were in shock and grieving, I was still wrapping my noggin around how unnecessary and dumb Beth's death was.

 

Agree. I don't agree either about Sasha, since the actress is much better than Beth, but I wouldn't have complained had they killed Tyreese instead of Beth. He's just boring, annoying dead weight.

Edited January 13, 2015 by AngelaHunter