Small Talk: The Quiver

[apinknightmare]

Me too. I loathe Pete Carroll in a ridiculous kind of way.

[catrox14]

I'm getting very nervous about my Broncos tomorrow. 

[Chaser]

Can't do the Pats or the Seahawks. Pulling for the Broncos.

Tough break for the Packers. Incredible last few minutes.

[catrox14]

Those last two minutes were incredible. But honestly, if you're gonna leave Larry Fitzgerald wide open with no one within 10 yards of him...you kind of deserve to lose. 

[kismet]

Sorry y'all but I'm pretty stoked about the Patriots... :) Next week will be interesting...

 

I could really care less about who the NFC team is... but there is some nice symmetry if Seattle vs NE again in the Big Game again.

[catrox14]

And some nice symmetry if it's the Broncos vs Seattle again. 

[kismet]

I only care about Peyton Manning when it comes to the Broncos, so if he makes it to the Big Game and plays I will root for him... but if not then my allegiance goes back to Pete Carroll. I want Peyton to play otherwise, I could care less how the Broncos do because I want the victory to be Peyton's and not that other guy's. And I realize how odd this sounds as a diehard Patriots fan, but what can I say I love Peyton and Pete gave us some good years, plus that man just has magnetic attractiveness to him. In the end though, the top of the hierarchy is always the Patriots, but I've be cheering for them since I was in diapers and they were perfecting losing seasons. So I have to remain loyal to them, it's in my blood.  

 

And some nice symmetry if it's the Broncos vs Seattle again. 

Well if that happens, hopefully the Broncos show up this time. That was such a disappointing game the first time around. At least NE v. Sea was a nail biter, edge of your seat game.

[bijoux]

I love Josh but Josh was a bit of an arrogant jackass. While Josh had dbag tendencies they were only a small part of his character. They probably get over shadowed by his good aspects in the episodes which is they never stood out doing your full rewatch.

Yeah, the arrogant jackass I was fine with because I felt it balanced well with the rest of his character. Here I was sort of hit over the head with sexist jerkwad tendencies. I remember his character receiving flack for that, but it never really bothered me. Maybe it's because I encountered two examples of it in isolated clips over as many days or maybe it's the displeasure of having a decade or more of being on the receiving end of such pearls of wisdom in the interim.

In the episode with Amy Adams he comments on her as being 'wholesome, but not too wholesome', cheesy eyebrow wiggle included. And I'm left feeling a little dirty and a lot exasparated. You're supposed to be too smart for that, man. Thankfully, I also found the clip with "Can we have a civilization?!" from the same episode after they find out they changed timezones. Josh and Toby losing it is the best. Oh, who am I kidding. Practically all of S1-4 are the best.

Hm, I wonder how I'd feel about Mandy and Amy now. Was not impressed with either previously.

I also watched some Vinnick and Santos clips. I remain staunch on this - Vinnick was the superior choice. Man, Alan Alda killed it.

[kismet]

I just loved Josh, flaws and all. He had such jerky tendencies but somehow he balanced them out. He also seemed to always get retribution for his jerky tendencies.

 

Every major character was amazing. They also all seemed to bounce off each other well which I think also helped to smooth out some of their rough edges, because they all had rough edges.

 

I never really cared for Mandy. I usually like that actress, but that role was crap which is why I was glad they wrote her out. I liked Amy, but I didn't like her with Josh. Josh and Amy together just brought out the worst points in each of their characters. I liked when Amy was kept apart from Josh.

 

Vinnick was the superior choice, but sometimes elections just go the other way because of weird twists of fate like what happened in the show. I did really like what they did with Vinnick in the end as a compromise.

 

Random trivia, Santos character was actually inspired by then Senator Barack Obama who ironically then had his own meteoric rise to Presidency. It was an interesting life inspiring art, which then came true in real life. Since West Wing ended in 2006 and Pres Obama was elected in 2008. It blew my mind during my first binge in the fall of 2008 and still kinda makes my head spin a bit.

[bijoux]

That's true - Stephen King is kind of famous for messing up the endings to his stories. And I know my reaction to the last part of Mockingjay (the novel) was that if I'd been reading an actual paper book it would have gone flying across the room (it was on my laptop, so I just pressed delete, heh).

 

I completely agree on Mockingjay. I was stumped when I heard they were splitting that into two movies. I just didn't see the how or the why of it. For all I know, they may have turned out terrific. I've only seen the first one.

 

Botching the ending is exactly what I fear from George R.R. Martin if the blowhard ever actually finishes The Song of Ice and Fire. 

 

Vinnick was the superior choice, but sometimes elections just go the other way because of weird twists of fate like what happened in the show. I did really like what they did with Vinnick in the end as a compromise.

 

Random trivia, Santos character was actually inspired by then Senator Barack Obama who ironically then had his own meteoric rise to Presidency. It was an interesting life inspiring art, which then came true in real life. Since West Wing ended in 2006 and Pres Obama was elected in 2008. It blew my mind during my first binge in the fall of 2008 and still kinda makes my head spin a bit.

 

Oh, I'm perfectly aware that elections can turn on a dime and even when they don't, the lesser candidate often wins. I just preferred Vinnick as a character overall. Santos just didn't draw me in. Plus, from my admittedly shady memory of later seasons, I even liked the dynimics of Vinnick's staff better. 

 

I think a lot of The West Wing is inspired by real people and events. As far as I recall the assassination attempt was inspired by the assassination attempt on Reagan, Josh was inspired by Rahm Emanuel. I'm sure there's a ton more that I either forgot or never knew about. It was all just handled so incredibly well. Sorkin may be problematic but damn it if he didn't turn out a brilliant show. 

 

And wow, I just read on Wikia that Josh was supposed to be 29 at the start of the series. Makes his douchy episodes a bit more understandable. I thought he was older. Now I've got to check all the characters' ages.

[Morrigan2575]

What was wrong with the ending to Mockingjay? I know I'm one of the few who actually really like it and orefer it to Catching Fire but, I didn't see anything "wrong" with the ending.

[bijoux]

I don't think the ending was wrong, just that it was the weakest book of the trilogy. 

[kismet]

That's true - Stephen King is kind of famous for messing up the endings to his stories. And I know my reaction to the last part of Mockingjay (the novel) was that if I'd been reading an actual paper book it would have gone flying across the room (it was on my laptop, so I just pressed delete, heh).

 

Endings are hard, though. Especially if what made you write the story in the first place was a specific scene which came to mind, and which came towards the beginning of your story. Also, the longer your story gets, the harder it's going to be to write an ending which satisfies everyone.

 

I remember when I was still reading Harry Potter fanfic, there was a really good story on ffn, though it was about forty chapters in, and still unfinished. Then, at about the forty chapter mark, the author announced she was going to write a prequel to that story before going back to it. When the prequel was about 90 chapters in, and showed no signs of finishing, I gave up.

Mockingjay was actually one of the series I was thinking about. The Divergent Series also fell prey to it as well. Actual the only fan fic based on books that I can read are Hunger Games Series because the ending was such a let down that I figured it would be good

 

I loved the Harry Potter Series, I can't make many complaints about it - other than upset about how many people had to die. But the actual writing of it was very good I thought. I never read any HP fan fic, I just feel I would be disappointed. 

 

JK Rowling's pseudonym books by Robert Galbraith are actually really good as well (The Cormoran Strike Novels), not Casual Vacancy that has horrid. I just finished reading Career of Evil and I was unable to put it down. It was such a pain turning nail biter.

[bijoux]

You know, I wanted to read Divergent, but the writing style just turned me off and I dropped it after a chapter or two at most. Which makes me sad because I really have a thing for distopian stories.

[arjumand]

What was wrong with the ending to Mockingjay? I know I'm one of the few who actually really like it and orefer it to Catching Fire but, I didn't see anything "wrong" with the ending.

 

I didn't like aspects of it, especially one thing which, in my opinion, completely negates and ruins the whole spurring point of the books:

 

And I don't mean Prim's death!

In one of the final council (?) meetings, they actually float an idea to have one final Hunger Games with the children of the privileged people, from District 1, I guess? And because Katniss is obsessed with killing President Coin in revenge for Prim's death, she doesn't vote against it - and that, to me, makes all the preceding stuff bullshit, and ruins Katniss for me as a heroine. To me, the whole point of the books was that the Games were wrong, intrinsically wrong. That final decision, which no-one mentions ever again, is to me the equivalent of justifying ethnic cleansing - it's ok if we ethnically cleanse people we don't like! No. It isn't. All that final hunger games would have done is create yet another group of people who'll hold a grudge against the new regime, and just carry the hatred and resentment into the next generations. And no-one learns anything, forever, the end.

I guess I should have expected it from the author - it's actually the movie which had the balls to suggest that even the so-called villain characters, like Cato (one of the Career tributes), are actual human beings with hopes and fears, and who've been manipulated into acting the way they do.

 

Rant over! I haven't watched the second Mockingjay movie, so I don't know if the part I hated is even in there.

Edited January 17, 2016 by arjumand

[jay741982]

She was one of the few FoTW that came off very sympathetic. Didn't stop her storyline from being absolutely cringe worthy, but even before anyone knew who she was, her performance was memorable for being a lot more nuanced than most, lol.

Oh yeah her character definitely came off as sympathetic in otherwise a cringeworthy episode. She was good

[bijoux]

I didn't like aspects of it, especially one thing which, in my opinion, completely negates and ruins the whole spurring point of the books:

 

And I don't mean Prim's death!

In one of the final council (?) meetings, they actually float an idea to have one final Hunger Games with the children of the privileged people, from District 1, I guess? And because Katniss is obsessed with killing President Coin in revenge for Prim's death, she doesn't vote against it - and that, to me, makes all the preceding stuff bullshit, and ruins Katniss for me as a heroine. To me, the whole point of the books was that the Games were wrong, intrinsically wrong. That final decision, which no-one mentions ever again, is to me the equivalent of justifying ethnic cleansing - it's ok if we ethnically cleanse people we don't like! No. It isn't. All that final hunger games would have done is create yet another group of people who'll hold a grudge against the new regime, and just carry the hatred and resentment into the next generations. And no-one learns anything, forever, the end.

I guess I should have expected it from the author - it's actually the movie which had the balls to suggest that even the so-called villain characters, like Cato (one of the Career tributes), are actual human beings with hopes and fears, and who've been manipulated into acting the way they do.

 

Rant over! I haven't watched the second Mockingjay movie, so I don't know if the part I hated is even in there.

 

My problem with the book is even simpler. I was just bored with it and don't remember this part at all. Which I really should, since it's been maybe two years since I read it. The whole thing just fizzled out for me.

 

Does anyone have a recommendation for distopian stories? They don't have to be YA. 

[jay741982]

I'm getting very nervous about my Broncos tomorrow.

Me too cause I fucking hate Shitsburgh. As a browns fan they are my most hated team. People can disagree but seeing the refs screw Cincinnati almost all game before Burfict lost his cool was rage inducing. I want your Broncos to beat the shit out of them

Those last two minutes were incredible. But honestly, if you're gonna leave Larry Fitzgerald wide open with no one within 10 yards of him...you kind of deserve to lose.

Agreed. Larry is one of my favorite players and I knew he still had it

[Morrigan2575]

I didn't like aspects of it, especially one thing which, in my opinion, completely negates and ruins the whole spurring point of the books:

.

I disagree that part of the book was in character, necessary and realistic to our times. Edited January 17, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Jediknight]

And some nice symmetry if it's the Broncos vs Seattle again. 

Seattle against a broken down Peyton whose best play is to hand the ball off?  He'd get destroyed worse than the last Super Bowl he was in.  Only one guy threw more picks than Peyton this season, and Peyton only played 10 games.  Hell, I'd bet on any of the 3 NFC teams to destroy Denver with Peyton as starter.

 

I like Denver, but with Peyton as the starter, they'd get destroyed against Seattle, Arizona, or Carolina.  Brock is their best choice to win.  His struggles were more on an O Line that wasn't blocking well (took them long enough to bench Schofield) and receivers that were dropping passes.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Jediknight

[Morrigan2575]

I would love for Peyton to have a triumphant return and win the Superbowl so he can put that whole "Peyton can't win big games" behind him and retire in peace. However, I sadly don't see that happening. I think Denver will beat The Steelers but lose to New England...which sucks because I really don't want them in the Superbowl again. That being said, not sure Pittsburgh could beat NE either.

I'm pulling for Carolina today. Screw the Seahawks and their bandwagon fans..12th man, my ass.

[arjumand]

I disagree that part of the book was in character, necessary and realistic to our times.

I can't be sure but I believe the final hunger game is mentioned again after Katniss is imprisioned. I don't remember who tells her but, it's during a visit when she's suffering her breakdown. They tell her the person who took over for Coin decided not to do it because it wrong

 

I read that whole part again to see if there's something I missed in my rage, and there is something that could be interpreted in the way you said, though it's never stated outright.

 

When she's in jail, Plutarch comes to see her and says this when asked if there's going to be another war:

 

" Now we're in that sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never

be repeated," he says. "But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor

memories and a great gift for self-destruction. Although who knows? Maybe this will be it, Katniss."

"What?" I ask.

"The time it sticks. Maybe we are witnessing the evolution of the human race. Think about that."

 

So really, the final Hunger Games is not mentioned. Plutarch just mentions 'our recent horrors'. What does he mean? The Games, or the war?  This is a very vague and unsatisfying resolution to the outrage felt at the idea of holding one last Games.

 

And at the end of the book, about twenty years later, Katniss says that there are no more hunger games.

 

But I wanted something more definite than that - sure, no more hunger games 20 years later, but what about one year later?

And when Plutarch says our recent horrors should never be repeated, does he mean the games, or the recent war, which was really horrific?

 

It was never made clear, but in my opinion it needed to be.

[Morrigan2575]

Again, I disagree but that's just comes down to different expectations. I liked the trilogy, I found Mockingjay to be the best of the trilogy and was very satisfied with the ending.

[kismet]

My biggest disappointment with the Hunger Games trilogy is that the book started out as children's forced journey to adulthood or at least adult scenarios. It was about Katniss and her struggles against an unfair world, an unfair life & how she tried to maintain & find her place in it. In someway it was also about Peeta and his struggles although that was more in bk 2, which is why I liked it the best. Bk 3 was a good overall story, but it was no longer about Katniss or Peeta. It was about the war & the mission to take-down the Capital. Some may say it was Gale's bk, but I never felt that in reading the novel. The film did a better job of perhaps making it about Gale, however it really was just about the War & the mission to destroy the Capital.

 

So in Suzanne Collins desire to tell the war story, I think she forgot about her actual characters that had started the journey. I found the end to be very rushed from a character perspective. Once Katniss completed her mission, there was really no character exploration into what the aftermath for her & the people she loved, which after spending 3 books with people I craved. A lot of shit went down and we got a paragraph and sometimes only a sentence that explained what happened to the people. It felt like Katniss did what she needed to do in the plot & in the novels, so SC was done writing her. We got a brief epilogue that barely addressed all the physical & psychosocial wounds, recovery & healing. So after writing 2.5 novels that showed a multi-faceted female character that was strong and not cookie-cutter, she threw it all away in the last 1/2 of book 3 by forgetting to make the story about Katniss & her loved ones. Instead it was all about the Mockingjay.

 

It's funny because I thought the movies would handle it better considering they stretched the last book into 2 parts, but they also too forgot about Katniss & Peeta and were quick to wrap it up. It felt like when both reading the book & watching the film, there hit a point in Mockingjay where the band started to play the send off music or there was a 2 minute warning - even though there was so much more to tell, everything got rushed and a lot of stuff got forgotten or minimized for whatever reasons.

[Morrigan2575]

I can see that, the ending was a bit rushed but, it seems typical for the genre, they did the same thing with Harry Potter. Personally, I put it down to the after effects of war being so debilitating that it put both the reader/author in a difficult position. While I would have loved a deeper exploration of Katniss, Peeta and Haymitch post war I don't know if the book could have supported it without feeling tacked on.

[JenMD]

I loved all the Hunger Games books, cover to cover I just found them riveting.

 

About the Mockingjay spoiler being discussed above,

My understanding has always been that when Katniss says "Yes" there is absolutely no intention of letting the Games come about.  It's at that moment, after carefully thinking everything through, that she sentences Coin to death.  Katniss, up 'til then, has held on to the, however slim chance, that the rebels weren't responsible for the bombing that killed Prim.  Oh, she probably knows, deep in her heart that Coin bears responsibility, but she doesn't fully see and accept it until Coin puts forth the plan that she admits is her own idea.  So, more children dying, nothing ever changing.  75 years ago, people sat around and debated killing children, for the "good" of the country and here they all are doing it all over again.  Coin is everything Snow told Katniss she was, and so much worse.  Katniss saying "Yes" is a ploy.  Katniss knows her vote, the Mockingjay's vote is the most important.  Coin suspects no dissent from her and simply thinks she's won.  Killing Coin ends the next Games discussion, they were her idea and they die with her, that's why they aren't mentioned again.  When Plutarch mentions "recent horrors", he's talking about the war.  At least, that's the way I've always interpreted it.

.

Edited January 17, 2016 by JenMD

[Morrigan2575]

It's been awhile since I read it but that's the way I interpreted it too.

[Starfish35]

Interesting.....

Fringe Vet: Series Became a 'Boy Show' After Launching With Female Hero

http://tvline.com/2016/01/17/fringe-criticism-boy-show-blair-brown/

Appearing on Sunday at the Television Critics Association winter press tour, where she was promoting Season 4 of Orange Is the New Black, Brown said, “I loved my time on Fringe, but the truth is that was originally a story about a female protagonist [Olivia, played by Anna Torv]… and the show turned into a story about father and son [played by John Noble and Joshua Jackson]. Very often in this business, that’s what tends to happen.”

Edited January 17, 2016 by Starfish35

[Genki]

My problem with the book is even simpler. I was just bored with it and don't remember this part at all. Which I really should, since it's been maybe two years since I read it. The whole thing just fizzled out for me.

 

Does anyone have a recommendation for distopian stories? They don't have to be YA. 

 

 

The Kate Daniel's series by Ilona Andrew, it's Urban Fantasy however the dystopia is  caused by Magic raising up, not science, but not YA strong characters, humour and really good LI. Also less fight the government than in a usual YA dystopian series.

 

The protagonist is also female, she starts off all tough chick and let more people in over the course of the books and the world building, action scenes and mythology is strong without taking over the book. There are free reads from the Authors (husband wife writing team) and while it's not finished there are plenty already released.

 

Probably not what you are asking for, but it's so good, I always recommend it.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Genki

[bijoux]

Aside from the magic and not being finished thing, this actually sounds very interesting. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

[lemotomato]

I'm giving up on the Carolina-Seattle game. I can't watch the Seahawks work their devil magic again. Damn the Panthers for leaving the door open for them

[Morrigan2575]

Shhhhhh

ETA: Yay! Pete Carroll's blood sacrifice at halftime wasn't enough but damn, it came close

Edited January 17, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Shhhhhh

ETA: Yay! Pete Carroll's blood sacrifice at halftime wasn't enough but damn it came close

 

Cackling. 

 

I loathe him.

[statsgirl]

Hm, I wonder how I'd feel about Mandy and Amy now. Was not impressed with either previously.

I also watched some Vinnick and Santos clips. I remain staunch on this - Vinnick was the superior choice. Man, Alan Alda killed it.

The Sorkin years were the best once John Wells got his hands on it, TWW became more ordinary TV drama.

 

I didn't understand the hate for Mandy. I LOATHED Amy (which made it surprising how much I loved her character on RED) because she was self-centered and got way too much time.  I was a Josh/Donna shipper but in spite of saying shippers would be happy, Wells just kept putting it off and putting it off.  And then, just when I thought maybe... Amy came back and Donna disappeared.

 

Vinnick was so much the better choice but for some reason, Wells was in love with Santos while I couldn't see the attraction at all.  I remember wishing that some of the Santos/Mrs. Santos scenes should have been given to Josh and Donna who basically got nothing except for a couple of brief moments at the very end. Even CJ and Danny got more.

[lemotomato]

Shhhhhh

ETA: Yay! Pete Carroll's blood sacrifice at halftime wasn't enough but damn, it came close

Way way too close. He must've used up some of those powers making the field goal shank last week.

I'm happy I can watch the rest of the playoffs stress/hate free.

[SmallScreenDiva]

On the topic of YA books, anyone here read the high-fantasy Codex Alera series by Jim Butcher? I just did a reread of one of them (Captain's Fury) and thought they held up rather well (first read them years ago). The premise is that the so-called Lost Legion ended up on another world and eventually created their own civilization. Now, that world is in danger and a young shepherd is it's last hope (I wrote that last sentence with tongue firmly in cheek).

[foreverevolving]

The Sorkin years were the best once John Wells got his hands on it, TWW became more ordinary TV drama.

 

I didn't understand the hate for Mandy. I LOATHED Amy (which made it surprising how much I loved her character on RED) because she was self-centered and got way too much time.  I was a Josh/Donna shipper but in spite of saying shippers would be happy, Wells just kept putting it off and putting it off.  And then, just when I thought maybe... Amy came back and Donna disappeared.

 

Vinnick was so much the better choice but for some reason, Wells was in love with Santos while I couldn't see the attraction at all.  I remember wishing that some of the Santos/Mrs. Santos scenes should have been given to Josh and Donna who basically got nothing except for a couple of brief moments at the very end. Even CJ and Danny got more.

 

When I was watching the show I was pissed off at Sorkin and Wells for not putting Josh and Donna sooner (because Wells was so good at it on ER- specifically Doug and Carol), but upon rewatches I came to realize that I actually prefer it that way, Donna needed to take a step back from Josh and do her own thing for awhile because she had outgrown our position as Josh Assistant/nanny but she was still somewhat lost, and Josh needed to realize that he can't be depended on Donna for everything. So those two-ish years they were apart both professionally and personally actually did a world of good for them because at the end it brought them to a point where they were truly equal in their life both professionally and personally.

[jay741982]

Way way too close. He must've used up some of those powers making the field goal shank last week.

I'm happy I can watch the rest of the playoffs stress/hate free.

If New England loses next week I can watch Super Bowl stress free. I'm so sick of Patriots in Super Bowl it's so boring

[Morrigan2575]

I hated Amy but I didn't hate Mandy. I didn't like Mandy but, I didn't hate her. I think Mandy's issues were mostly with the actress. I just don't think Moira Kelly was the right actress for the role. She doesn't excude the warmth necessary to make the character endearing given that she was mostly used as an antagonist to Josh, Sam and (maybe) Toby

[Chaser]

Unpopular opinion. I don't miss the Benson/Stabler pairing on Law & Order: SVU. I actually don't miss Stabler at all. And I never got them as a romantic pairing either.

[foreverevolving]

If New England loses next week I can watch Super Bowl stress free. I'm so sick of Patriots in Super Bowl it's so boring

If the pats loses party at my place! I'll be buying nice expensive booze to celebrate.

Edited January 18, 2016 by foreverevolving

[Starfish35]

Oh I hope Patriots lose next week. I didn't care so much because I didn't think the Broncos would get this far, but damn it, now I care. :( Go Broncos!

Edited January 18, 2016 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

What was wrong with the ending to Mockingjay? I know I'm one of the few who actually really like it and orefer it to Catching Fire but, I didn't see anything "wrong" with the ending.

 

 

Well, my problem was

Prim's death. She dies and it mean everything Katniss did was for nothing. Maybe that was the point of the book, that fighting never solved anything but nope, the moment Prim died I stopped caring about anything.

Still enjoyed most of the movies but not sure if I will ever watch the final part. Also didn't like how they basically ruined Gale.  And lastly, I was sooo not a Peeta shipper.  His character has grown on me but I'm still icked by the coupling.  Hutchinson may have been well cast but I can't think of him as anything but a child and I don't want children talking about getting anyone pregnant, lol. 

[kismet]

A lot of you have inspired me to change my icon for a little bit. :)

 

Go Pats!! Sorry Not Sorry...

[akiss]

I loved all the Hunger Games books, cover to cover I just found them riveting.

 

About the Mockingjay spoiler being discussed above,

My understanding has always been that when Katniss says "Yes" there is absolutely no intention of letting the Games come about.  It's at that moment, after carefully thinking everything through, that she sentences Coin to death.  Katniss, up 'til then, has held on to the, however slim chance, that the rebels weren't responsible for the bombing that killed Prim.  Oh, she probably knows, deep in her heart that Coin bears responsibility, but she doesn't fully see and accept it until Coin puts forth the plan that she admits is her own idea.  So, more children dying, nothing ever changing.  75 years ago, people sat around and debated killing children, for the "good" of the country and here they all are doing it all over again.  Coin is everything Snow told Katniss she was, and so much worse.  Katniss saying "Yes" is a ploy.  Katniss knows her vote, the Mockingjay's vote is the most important.  Coin suspects no dissent from her and simply thinks she's won.  Killing Coin ends the next Games discussion, they were her idea and they die with her, that's why they aren't mentioned again.  When Plutarch mentions "recent horrors", he's talking about the war.  At least, that's the way I've always interpreted it.

.

This is exactly how I interpreted it, too. That's why

Haymich waited to see what Katniss would do before he cast his vote. I did have a problem with Joanna sincerely casting a "yes" vote, though.

[tv echo]

The Kate Daniel's series by Ilona Andrew, it's Urban Fantasy however the dystopia is  caused by Magic raising up, not science, but not YA strong characters, humour and really good LI. Also less fight the government than in a usual YA dystopian series.

 

The protagonist is also female, she starts off all tough chick and let more people in over the course of the books and the world building, action scenes and mythology is strong without taking over the book. There are free reads from the Authors (husband wife writing team) and while it's not finished there are plenty already released.

 

Probably not what you are asking for, but it's so good, I always recommend it.

 

I love the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews.  I don't consider it a YA series (it's usually shelved in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section of my local book store).

 

It's got a badass heroine with a sword (that she's very good at wielding), complicated world building, good action/fight sequences, very snarky humor, great supporting characters, and a wonderful relationship between Kate and Curran that develops over the course of several books.  Here's the series order:

 

1 Magic Bites

2 Magic Burns

3 Magic Strikes

4 Magic Bleeds

5 Magic Slays

6 Magic Rises

7 Magic Breaks

8 Magic Shifts

 

I believe there are two more books to come before this series ends. There are also related books (like Gunmetal Magic) and short stories. (source)

Edited January 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Rachel Bloom won a Critics' Choice Award for Best Actress in a Comedy Series...

 

Announcing the 2016 Critics' Choice Awards Winners!
January 18, 2016 by MAGGIE PEHANICK
http://www.popsugar.co.uk/celebrity/Critics-Choice-Awards-Winners-2016-39840088

Edited January 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Genki]

Rachel Bloom won a Critics' Choice Award for Best Actress in a Comedy Series...

 

Announcing the 2016 Critics' Choice Awards Winners!

January 18, 2016 by MAGGIE PEHANICK

http://www.popsugar.co.uk/celebrity/Critics-Choice-Awards-Winners-2016-39840088

 

Hopefully the exposure with the 2 awards translates to more people checking it out.

[bijoux]

Did that help Jane the Virgin's ratings? I don't really follow those things and have indeed been slacking off on the show this season as well.

Did that help Jane the Virgin's ratings? I don't really follow those things and have indeed been slacking off on the show this season as well.

[Morrigan2575]

No, winning the Golden Globe didn't help JTV's ratings.