Small Talk: The Quiver

[manbearpig]

I'm having Veronica Mars withdrawals so I'll be ordering both books soon. Which is odd because I was perfectly happy with the show's initial ending. I love how full circle it is with Veronica back to being an outsider and that shot of her walking alone in the rain is depressing, but I like that she couldn't help herself from going after all the shady rich people. The movie just brought back my love for the series and I'll definitely need to do a rewatch at some point. 

 

I don't share the love for LoVe though. They work better than Veronica and Duncan and they have a fun chemistry, but I definitely liked them more as grudging allies than I did when they were an actual couple. I did think the greater focus on their relationship in season three was why it is my least favourite season of the show*. I don't know. I always thought Veronica was at her most interesting when she was single.

 

*Not just that, the change in setting, lack of a season long mystery, new characters I didn't mind but didn't love, all contributed to it being my least favourite season, but it was still good television and I'd argue better than most of the CW's output, anyway. I can't wait to check out iZombie though!

Edited January 21, 2015 by manbearpig

[statsgirl]

I'm watching the Play It Again, Dick webseries.  Not as good as the show, of course, but still kind of fun.

[BkWurm1]

I'm having Veronica Mars withdrawals so I'll be ordering both books soon. Which is odd because I was perfectly happy with the show's initial ending. I love how full circle it is with Veronica back to being an outsider and that shot of her walking alone in the rain is depressing, but I like that she couldn't help herself from going after all the shady rich people. The movie just brought back my love for the series and I'll definitely need to do a rewatch at some point. 

 

I don't share the love for LoVe though. They work better than Veronica and Duncan and they have a fun chemistry, but I definitely liked them more as grudging allies than I did when they were an actual couple. I did think the greater focus on their relationship in season three was why it is my least favourite season of the show*. I don't know. I always thought Veronica was at her most interesting when she was single.

 

*Not just that, the change in setting, lack of a season long mystery, new characters I didn't mind but didn't love, all contributed to it being my least favourite season, but it was still good television and I'd argue better than most of the CW's output, anyway. I can't wait to check out iZombie though!

I read the first book and if you are not a LoVe fan, then you might enjoy knowing he is away on assignment the whole time, they connect but it's not a focus of the book.  Lots of other interesting stuff happening though. 

 

I'll read the second book just as soon as I can get my hands on it.  :)

[manbearpig]

Thanks BkWurm, I'll definitely be checking it out. I don't even dislike Veronica and Logan necessarily, I just prefer their dynamic in the earlier seasons when they're snarking. I never hated them or anything, I just thought their relationship in season three kind of diluted the things I liked about both characters; Logan was a little less psychotic jackass-y and I always preferred Veronica single because I liked her as an outsider and was definitely more interested in seeing her interact with her dad or Wallace or Weevil or Mac.

 

I hope we get another movie or a miniseries or something, but I'm still surprised there's a Veronica Mars movie in the first place so I'm happy enough to check out the books.

[WaitandHope]

@dancingnancy, I didn't know all that about the Rob Thomas resistance and network pressure, but it's very interesting and totally believable. Still, he seemed to have accepted LoVe Big Time by the time the movie rolled around. And the pairing - love it or hate it - played a large part in getting the movie made. I actually think that despite many fears and dread about Lauriver (and I totally own my part in it) and other people still holding out Lauriver hope, the EPs on Arrow have come around too. This time to Olicity.. For all we know, network brass was probably involved in this one too. Maybe the network likes KC, but they can also see when a plan is not working.

Maybe it'll change - especially if Arrow goes on forever like Smallville or Supernatural- but they couldn't fade the heat - from fans and ratings and nerdrage- at this point - for too much of a change in the foreseeable future. At least I don't think. I'm no expert in Hollywood, but Olicity seems like free publicity and bankable dollars. All good things to executives.

Edited January 22, 2015 by WaitandHope

[dtissagirl]

Oh, sure, I can see that Thomas looks back at the show now, and realizes the network had a really valid point in pushing for Logan as V's main romantic interest. And ITA that the movie campaign was largely helped by massively advertising Veronica/Logan, because they are the most beloved pairing in this fandom. I actually LOVE it that he made Logan grow up in the movie, and I bought it that he joined the Navy with no qualms. I think the movie had a completely stupid crime plot, but I honestly wasn't watching it for plot. I wanted to see the characters, and their interactions, and I enjoyed that plenty.

The reason I'm not worried about Laurel is because characters have to be profitable, and she's not. On VMars, Donut was actively losing them money because Teddy Dunn's inexperience on set caused production set backs. They had to hire him an acting coach. They had to scrape scenes he couldn't nail. On Arrow, they pay big bucks to Katie Cassidy, but Laurel doesn't bring extra audience for the show, nor extra dough in tie-in products*. She might be losing them money, if we think about how many Laurel scenes end up in the DVD deleted extras. Those scenes cost them a pretty penny, and they decided it was best to lose that money than to put them on the episodes.

*Felicity makes them money, and I can say this with certainty because she's *everywhere*. It's Felicity crossing over to Flash more than any other character. It's Felicity crossing over in the Flash Season Zero tie- in comics. It's Felicity who was added to current DC comics Green Arrow canon.

I know people worry because of How I Met Your Mother, but the cautionary tale is not that they killed the mother in the very last episode [when in theory they had no audience to lose], but in the fact that the How I Met Your Dad spin-off started out as a no-brainer pick up before the finale aired, and fizzled out and got scraped after it aired.

Edited January 22, 2015 by dancingnancy

[BkWurm1]

I

know people worry because of How I Met Your Mother, but the cautionary tale is not that they killed the mother in the very last episode [when in theory they had no audience to lose], but in the fact that the How I Met Your Dad spin-off started out as a no-brainer pick up before the finale aired, and fizzled out and got scraped after it aired.

 

This brings me great comfort.  I never regularly watched the show but now that it's in reruns everywhere, I have watched a few from the final season and how they could take the Robin/Barney relationship and just stomp on it dead in the final is mind boggling.  NOTHING hinted at it and that takes it from surprise to bait and switch. 

 

I couldn't have watched more than 15 full episodes and probably another 20 partials (openings/closing minutes) but I find myself randomly steamed on behalf of the actual viewers.  Makes no effing sense.  How could they have possibly thought anybody would give a damn about their HIMYF spin off after revealing the mother dies and the father was only really biding time til he could be with his real love?  Just ick and hell no!

 

I think these producers need to start reading romance novels (the good ones with plot and characterization, not the pseudo S&M ones) to be reminded what romance really looks like.  Nothing is less romantic than waiting years to find out you're just wasting your time. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[manbearpig]

Barney/Robin breaking up was the one thing that made sense to me about the HIMYM finale. Their relationship was toxic and the whole final season seemed like a series of events proving why they shouldn't be together. As someone who enjoyed Robin a lot in the early seasons I have to say that putting her with Barney ruined her for me.

 

That being said the HIMYM finale didn't upset me. The show had been on a steady decline for years and while they had the odd good episode or fun storyline, it didn't really surprise me that they botched the ending. Cristin Milioti was adorable as the mother and pretty much perfect casting. Shame her new show just got cancelled. Lily was the only other character I liked by the end of the show, and even then that's mostly to do with Alyson Hannigan, who I'll love forever for being Willow Rosenberg. The finale sucked, sure, but not more than your standard episode of HIMYM season nine.

[tv echo]

Dr. Railly on 12 Monkeys really does look like Felicity in some shots...

 

Edited January 22, 2015 by tv echo

[calliope1975]

Dr. Railly on 12 Monkeys really does look like Felicity in some shots...

 

 

I noticed that, too. She also looks like Nicole Kidman to me which confuses my brain when I'm watching.

[Chiny11]

Wow @ those Empire ratings. Just Wow! :)

[SonofaBiscuit]

In honor of KC, here's something that all curly-haired folks will probably find relatable and get a good laugh out of:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/things-people-with-curly-hair-are-tired-of-hearing#.wuKqgEpVz

[dtissagirl]

@SonofaBiscuit, did you read this interview with Tracee Ellis Ross? She explains how the shooting schedule on Black-ish has to work around her [awesome] hair, and I'm just here thinking GIRL I GET IT: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/magazine/tracee-ellis-ross-that-hurt-like-the-bejesus.html?ref=magazine&_r=0

[calliope1975]

After that interview and the curly hair talk, I saw this video later that night. And THIS is why we have to show girls that curly hair IS professional, beautiful, and strong.

[BkWurm1]

Hey, in case there is any question about it, most of us straight haired girls grow up envious of the girls who have the curls. 

 

I was highly disappointed to discover buying the right shampoo did not magically give me curls.  Anyone remember Halsa hair? 

Edited January 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh my gosh, I had no idea that Tracee Ellis Ross is Diana Ross's daughter.  That's cool.  

 

Hey, in case there is any question about it, most of us straight haired girls grow up envious of the girls who have the curls. 

 

In my case, I found that the only people envious of my hair were ladies of my grandma's generation.  They loved the curly hair!  Kids my age...not so much.  In fact, some of them were complete A-holes about it.  So I get why these little girls don't think their curls are beautiful.  They are probably bullied about it at school, and that's just so sad.

 

[BkWurm1]

I'm a generation Xer. 

 

When did you face curl persecution? 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm a generation Xer. 

 

When did you face curl persecution? 

 

I'm Generation Y.  Seriously, I think this is when basic human decency started to go downhill. Pretty sure that kids are even worse now.

Edited January 24, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[dtissagirl]

I live in Brazil. Everyone here is mixed race, so obviously tons of women have curly hair. And yet, natural curly hair is pretty much considered unkept and unprofessional. And the beauty industry here basically perfected so many different ways to make curly hair straight, it's actually easy to do so now, so keeping natural curls becomes a ~statement. Which is super tiring in itself.

[BkWurm1]

I'm a generation Xer.

 

When did you face curl persecution?

 

 

I'm Generation Y.  Seriously, I think this is when basic human decency started to go downhill. Pretty sure that kids are even worse now.

 

The hair thing is probably an over reaction to the poof of the eighties just like the poof was a reaction to the super long and straight hair of the late 60's and 70's.  It seems to me like curls and waves are coming back.  I've even heard about perms starting to come back so hopefully the ridiculous anti-curl stance will evaporate. 

 

Oh and just to restore your faith in humanity, the kids I know of this generation are some of the most deeply tolerant I've ever encountered.  There are always exceptions but I've been passionately lectured by a 14 year old to not judge people by their appearances when I've complained about people's hair or outfits on TV.  Of course her mom and I were unapologetic and tried to explain that we weren't playing by real life rules, lol and TV people were fair game. 

 

She disagreed. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[SonofaBiscuit]

Even in the US, I think that curly hair isn't considered desirable.  Look at how many actresses with naturally curly hair wear it straight most of the time.  I saw this segment on Good Morning America (or one of those morning shows) where the lady doing the story took photos of herself with straight and curly hair and then showed them to men.  The men had to choose which woman was more attractive. It was the same woman in both pictures, but the men overwhelmingly picked the straight-haired woman as more attractive.  I just don't get it.

[dtissagirl]

There's also the super pervasive thing that curly hair on TV, movies, ads is almost always artificial curls. Which are *controlled* curls.

 

Something that happens on every TV show ever -- actress has naturally curly hair in the early episodes, then all of a sudden she has artificially curled hair, which is super sad, because for artificial curls to work, you have to straighten the hair and then make the curls. So this poor woman is having her hair heated twice -- once to straigthen, once to curl -- to look curly, but controlled curly.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I know! Precious Ephram. Did you ever read what their plans were for a season 5, though? Shudder.

 

I wonder how he and BR know each other.

 

Oh God, no ... what were the plans? I know they had to rush the finale because they were canceled. Were they bringing Madison and the baby back?

 

I think I enjoyed Hannah and Bright more than I did Amy and Ephram. I later read that Hannah was supposed to be Ephram's love interest but the actress had much better chemistry with Chris Pratt so they ended pursuing that storyline instead. That's why I was hopeful, when it was becoming clear that the Oliver/Laurel romance was not working, that GB would be open to exploring an alternative in Felicity.

 

Edited to add: I have curly hair. I was so scarred from middle/high school persecution that I spent a fortune during my young adult years straightening my hair. But now I just wear it curly, occasionally using a flat iron to change things up :)

Edited January 24, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[calliope1975]

There's also the super pervasive thing that curly hair on TV, movies, ads is almost always artificial curls. Which are *controlled* curls.

 

Something that happens on every TV show ever -- actress has naturally curly hair in the early episodes, then all of a sudden she has artificially curled hair, which is super sad, because for artificial curls to work, you have to straighten the hair and then make the curls. So this poor woman is having her hair heated twice -- once to straigthen, once to curl -- to look curly, but controlled curly.

 

I wish they'd let EBR's natural waves and curls out more. I have curly/wavy hair, and for some reason used to get perms. I blame the late 80s. It wasn't until my senior year in high school that a hair stylist diffused my hair and I discovered a huge head full of curls. Now, I go back and forth. Sometimes straight, sometimes curly. Mostly depending on my level of laziness. But I love to see ladies on TV rocking real curls. We need more of that.  

[statsgirl]

Sounds like curls are like bra size -- it's always what you have that you don't want.

 

Me, I'd kill for curly hair.   Mine is the kind that no matter what I do to it, no matter what curler or product, it's straight as a board again by the end of the night.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Haha, my mom permed my hair as a child, but I had naturally curly hair.  Doesn't make sense, does it?  I was so scarred by my classmates that I just always wear my hair up.  Can't stand my hair in my face at this point.  I very rarely wear it down or straighten it, but then I'll get those "Your hair looks so nice" comments that really do feel like maybe the person saying that is implying your hair does not look so nice when it's curly.

[statsgirl]

I wear my hair up too because I can't stand it in my face but it's a very severe look, there are no curls wafting romantically down to soften the lines.  I'm going to have to figure something else out before I start looking like my great-grandmother.

 

So, still envy you, except for the part about being scarred.

[BkWurm1]

I very rarely wear it down or straighten it, but then I'll get those "Your hair looks so nice" comments that really do feel like maybe the person saying that is implying your hair does not look so nice when it's curly.

 

Ha, ha.  The only time I get compliments is when I curl it.

 

I think in reality it's just that people tend to notice it when we do something different. 

 

Mine is the kind that no matter what I do to it, no matter what curler or product, it's straight as a board again by the end of the night.

 

So much this.  Often before I manage to leave the house. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Carrie Ann]

Oh God, no ... what were the plans? I know they had to rush the finale because they were canceled. Were they bringing Madison and the baby back?

 

I think I enjoyed Hannah and Bright more than I did Amy and Ephram. I later read that Hannah was supposed to be Ephram's love interest but the actress had much better chemistry with Chris Pratt so they ended pursuing that storyline instead. That's why I was hopeful, when it was becoming clear that the Oliver/Laurel romance was not working, that GB would be open to exploring an alternative in Felicity.

 

This is actually a list from the Everwood forum here, which is where I learned about it too--not sure of the original source. If you visit that thread, you can see my horror in action:

 

1. Madison returning to Everwood

2. More of a focus on Delia

3. The wedding of Andy and Nina

4. The coupling of Ephram and Hannah

5. Jake no longer being on the show

6. Andy's dad visiting again

7. Nina pregnant with Jake's child

[BkWurm1]

4 & 7 are horrifying.  1 isn't so great but compared with 4 & 7...shudder. 

 

How would they even get to a Hannah/Ephram couple...just no. 

[dtissagirl]

Changing the subject to a previous one, but I read the new Veronica Mars book today. The rape case is awful. It starts grim, it gets more and more grim, and seedier, and sleazier, and I really wish Rob Thomas would STOP WITH THE RAPE STORIES, because it's über creepy.

However. Veronica is so so so great in the book. And all of the relationships felt really true to the characters, even the sad/grey stuff. Also, the B-Plot is actually fun and engaging, with Keith, and Cliff, and Weevil working together to take down Sheriff Lamb 2.0.

Also also: ACTUAL BACKSTORY to how Logan joined the Navy.

Also x3: PONY! #vagueonpurpose

[SmallScreenDiva]

3, 5 and 6, I'm totally on board with. I'm with BkWurm1 on 4 and 7 and I echo the part about Hannah/Ephram. Just, whaaaat??? Thank God, the show was canceled. It really was awesome in the first season, and the quality started dropping after that. Wasn't Paul Wesley in there somewhere? I couldn't remember his character's name so I just called him Eyebrows.

 

I've some thoughts about Jake and Ray Palmer so I'm moving that to the speculations thread.

[tv echo]

What I remember about Veronica Mars is that most of Veronica and Logan's relationship when they were together happened off-screen during the summer hiatus.  He showed up at her door, beaten and bruised, at the end of one season.  Then when the show returned in the fall, he and Veronica had apparently gotten together and broken up, and Veronica was back with Duncan.  But I really gave up on VM when they introduced Piz.

Edited January 24, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

I never watched the third season of VMars, so my head canon is *great*. Piz is the Temporary Dude from New York in the movie, and nothing else.

[wingster55]

I never found Dunn to be great...but his scene with Veronica in 1.21 was better than anything Jason Lohring did in 3 seasons and a movie. I never found him to be a great actor..and the chemistry..just because there was snark doesn't make it great imo.

I found the show had to overlook some things to make the character and pairing work, the way they did with Dick Casablancas. 

 

Also I started Orphan Black last night.  Holy fuck

[foreverevolving]

first of all: I really hope the perm is not coming back.. that thing is hideious and i am not even old enough to have been old enough to remember it in person.

I have Jewish hair: it goes straight in the cold dry winter, turn into a puffed cat once the rain returns and turn into this once summer sets in with its rain and humidity-

 

I share your pain Monica!

 

and Frizzy! always, no matter the weather or hair style or hair products it's frizzy. damn frizze!

[statsgirl]

I just saw the second episode of Play It Again, Dick. And holy smoke, Jason Doehring shirtless doing chin up and chin up!  We need to get him into the foundry to do the salmon ladder.

[Kymmi]

As a naturally curly girl that grew up in the 80's I HATE perms.  So unfair.  Their curls looks the same every day.  The same can not be said for naturally curly hair.  The first bullet point in that buzz feed list was on point.  You take a shower (no shampoo - please) and hope for the best.  My daughter also has curly hair but has multiple hair textures.  While mine is fine and super tight curls, hers is thicker, sausage curls on one side, waves in the back, and large curls on the other side.  We're now on the hair product merry go round, which she will never get off of.  Interesting to me, my hair was only wavy and thick when I was young - it was puberty that brought my crazy curls.  

 

I get the gras is always greener, but I've definitely picked up the message from somewhere that curly hair = messy and straight hair = sophisticated.  As did Katie Cassidy apparently in speaking about her Black Canary wig.  Ugh.

[BkWurm1]

Now that we've dived into the topic, care to expand on why no shampoo? And if no shampoo, do you still use conditioner? Very curious.

[Trini]

Now that we've dived into the topic, care to expand on why no shampoo? And if no shampoo, do you still use conditioner? Very curious.

 

In a nutshell, curls need moisture, and shampoo strips (too much) moisture.

 

ETA: But there are different "levels" with the no shampoo thing. I use a conditioning cleanser, and a little shampoo every 3 or 4 washes.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Trini

[SonofaBiscuit]

Now that we've dived into the topic, care to expand on why no shampoo? And if no shampoo, do you still use conditioner? Very curious.

 

I think that it's called co-washing and the purpose is keep the hair moisturized by avoiding stripping it of its natural oils.  I don't know if a lot of curly-haired women do the co-washing thing, but I tried it once and it wasn't for me (dryness isn't my problem...my hair is just hella thick).  I don't even use special shampoo or conditioner on my hair, really, but I do use leave-in-conditioner to weigh my hair down and heat/humidity gel that is made specifically for curly hair.  But if anyone wants to suggest some affordable shampoo, conditioner, or styling products that work wonders on your curls (especially in humid climates because my hair is awful in the summer), I'm curious. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Genki]

I find Moroccan oil/Argon oil has been great for my hair. You need to find the brand or product that works for you but made mine more manageable and healthy (even though I don't leave it curly to often nowadays). 

[Password]

I second Moroccan oil. The conditioner does wonders for your hair.

[calliope1975]

I find Moroccan oil/Argon oil has been great for my hair. You need to find the brand or product that works for you but made mine more manageable and healthy (even though I don't leave it curly to often nowadays). 

 

My hair stylist recommended Moroccan Oil Curl Defining Cream and I love it. My curls are super defined when I use it. Regular Moroccan oil was too heavy for my hair, but the cream is perfect. It's a bit pricy but lasts forever. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Somewhere in another thread, it was mentioned that people in this forum are not so kind to those with a difference of opinion.  My two cents is that there are people with differing opinions, and then there are people who live to antagonize.  These antagonizers, however, are fairly easy to spot.  They'll say something obnoxious, and then walk away, waiting for other posters to respond to their comments.  A while later, they'll return to say something else obnoxious.  This goes on for a time, sometimes there are contradictions involved, but if you engage them long enough, they'll eventually say something that shows that they really had no idea what they were talking about, they were just trying to piss you off.  I've found that it's best to just ignore these people because even if logic prevails and you make your point, they'll just be back in a month to start the same cycle all over again.  My advice?  DON'T ENGAGE.  It'll keep your blood pressure from skyrocketing.

[wingster55]

I don't think I've said anything obnoxious. (If in fact this was in reference to me)

[statsgirl]

EBR said in an interview that she's using Argon oil now. I thought it was for her skin (which is how I use it) but maybe she meant for her hair.

[dtissagirl]

EBR said in an interview that she's using Argon oil now. I thought it was for her skin (which is how I use it) but maybe she meant for her hair.

 

I use it for both skin and hair. Different products, but both Argan based. :)

[apinknightmare]

I use it for both skin and hair. Different products, but both Argan based. :)

 

How do you use it on your face? Just dab some on instead of a moisturizer or what?

[dtissagirl]

How do you use it on your face? Just dab some on instead of a moisturizer or what?

 

Yup. Couple of drops on my face before bed. And I added a teaspoon of the oil to my body moisturizer too. It does have to be 100% pure organic Argan oil, though. The diluted stuff is not good for the skin.

 

I've actually just started alternating argan oil and passion fruit seed oil, which is super cheap here in the tropics. Organic argan oil isn't. :/