Small Talk: The Quiver

[SonofaBiscuit]

I've never seen Frozen and haven't wanted to because of that stupid song, but OUAT is actually making me think twice about it.  I'm trying to keep pretty spoiler-free about Frozen and Once so I can just enjoy the story as we go.  During Arrow's crappy back half of season two, the Hook/Emma stuff on OUAT was all I was really excited about on TV at that time.   

[manbearpig]

Once Upon A Time got taken off the air here in the UK after season two, which was a bit of a relief to me because I'd still probably be watching that mess if it was still being shown regularly here. I really enjoyed the first season though.

[Sakura12]

OUAT's Frozen storyline is taking place right after the movie ended that's what is making it interesting to me. The addition of Juliet the Snow Queen is intriguing, because they are telling the Disney story along with their version of the real Fairy Tale.

[foreverevolving]

I agree @quarks Captain Swan! I am loving their interactions. I love how Hook is all understanding but at the same time is also slowly and gently pushing Emma to open up.

and I am totally shipping the hell out of Captain Charming!

[statsgirl]

I'm liking OUaT more this season than much of last season. I'm still kind of iffy about the Frozen characters but mostly I like them and I really like that Elsa is being friends with Emma and that they are magicking together.

 

I think a big reason OUaT went bad that season is because the EPs were too in love with their leading lady Regina (sounds familiar?) and instead of writing natural consequences for her evilness, they wrote Poor, poor Regina.  It's much better now.

[apinknightmare]

From the Spoilers thread:

 

 

oh IMDB is never to be believed for serious stuff.

Stephen's income has to be a lot more than that. Someone like Max Greenfield makes 75k per episode for New Girl and he is like 3rd name on call sheet after Zooey and Jack.

Stephen headlines an hour long action drama and must be making at least 85 k or more. I refuse to believe that CW/WB is paying their star anything less than that. TV pays well. I have worked in TV industry in UK and I always used to wonder at times the insane money that was being paid to people who work in front of camera - like Top 10 show hosts who only look pretty (their scripts are written by other peeps) get paid 20k a week. Some veterans like Mark Harmon of NCIS makes 2.3 million per episode but that show has been number 1 since forever and has been on air since forever as well.

Stephen must make a lot more than 30k that imdb is reporting, this is probably the type of money they would be paying to someone like Emily or Colton.

 

I don't know what Stephen makes, but that $30k per episode number was reported by TV Guide (not sure if that's considered a trustworthy source).

[JayKay]

Sarah Michelle Gellar made something 35k per episode during her Buffy days, so the CW as it is financially, 30k sounds about right for Stephen Amell to me. The network doesn't have the audience or accompanying advertising money to pay actors like FOX or The Big Three.

[TanyaKay]

Sarah Michelle Gellar made something 35k per episode during her Buffy days, so the CW as it is financially, 30k sounds about right for Stephen Amell to me. The network doesn't have the audience or accompanying advertising money to pay actors like FOX or The Big Three.

 

But Buffy ended a decade ago, at least count in the inflation during this period! 30 K does not seem right, not even for CW in 2014. But that is pure hunch on my part and I have no way of knowing the exact figure these guys make.

[foreverevolving]

Sarah Michelle Gellar made something 35k per episode during her Buffy days, so the CW as it is financially, 30k sounds about right for Stephen Amell to me. The network doesn't have the audience or accompanying advertising money to pay actors like FOX or The Big Three.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. 30K an episode sounds a reasonable salary for a new! CW show that is pulling only 2.5-ish million viewers. (although in reality i'm sure it's at least twice if not three times- live and not live streaming in the days after the show aired). Not to mention that unlike SMG Stephen was not a well known star when Arrow began. SMG had a major role on what i think was the biggest, or at least top 3, daytime soaps before Buffy - hack even i knew her name and i barely ever watched that soap (a couple dozen of episodes, and i'm being generous). While Stephen may have been a raising star when he was cast for Arrow, SMG was already a known star when she was cast for Buffy. which would very much attributes to the difference in wage.

unless they signed a new contract since the show began he is still making his initial salary. however! due to the show and his raising popularity i'd be extremely shocked if he won't get a hefty raise. more on that at the end of my post..

 

Welling made (according to IMDB) a cool 175K per episode for the 09-2010 season, but if i recall correctly by that point he was also a producer on the show, and he directed a few episodes- all of which i am sure added to his list of responsibilities on the show which naturally raised his salary. the fact that Smallville was CW top rated show for most of its run probably helped.

 

Which is why i'd be personally shocked (and disappointed) if Stephen won't ask and get a co-executive producer title when it be time for contract renewal. he seems smart that way- i hope.

Edited October 14, 2014 by foreverevolving

[JayKay]

But Buffy ended a decade ago, at least count in the inflation during this period! 30 K does not seem right, not even for CW in 2014. But that is pure hunch on my part and I have no way of knowing the exact figure these guys make.

I'd like to think they make more for all the work they put into it (not that 30k a week is limping your way to the bank) but I don't know either.

[statsgirl]

Stephen's contract is six years so it would be season 7 before he could re-negotiate and the show might well be cancelled by then.

 

He'll probably do better with his next show now that he's better known.

[calliope1975]

30k sounds right to me. He started around 24 or 26k and 3 years in, I think that amount is fairly accurate for the CW. While these actors are by no means hurting, they aren't making network money either. Plus, with all the Cons SA is doing, he has a nice side supplement going on. 

[foreverevolving]

Stephen's contract is six years so it would be season 7 before he could re-negotiate and the show might well be cancelled by then.

 

He'll probably do better with his next show now that he's better known.

 

Is there an interview where he mentioned that? cause i know someone mentioned how's KC contract is supposed to end at the end of the third year- or is it just guess work? i don't know 7 years sounds like a really long contract.

[quarks]

Isn't it 30K per episode as a base, plus residuals from post-views? Asking because although I don't have a breakdown for Arrow, CBS says that the post-viewing numbers for CW shows are really excellent, and the iTunes numbers look good, so my guess is that this ups his final takehome pay quite a bit.

 

The base number sounds reasonable to me: it's a CW show whose producers keep telling us every other interview that they're on this strict, strict budget.  

[Ceylon5]

Is there an interview where he mentioned that? cause i know someone mentioned how's KC contract is supposed to end at the end of the third year- or is it just guess work? i don't know 7 years sounds like a really long contract.

 

I think 6 year contracts have long been the standard in the industry - at least that's always been my understanding (which is why Julianna Margulies left ER after 6 seasons when her contract was up; while George Clooney had to be specifically released from his contract early).  It's the new 3 year contracts that the CW has apparently started doing that are unusual (hence the guesswork regarding Katie's contract length), but Stephen is definitely tied into a 6 year contract, as he's mentioned it in an interview (sorry, can't remember which one, but I've definitely heard him say it).

[foreverevolving]

I think 6 year contracts have long been the standard in the industry - at least that's always been my understanding (which is why Julianna Margulies left ER after 6 seasons when her contract was up; while George Clooney had to be specifically released from his contract early).  It's the new 3 year contracts that the CW has apparently started doing that are unusual (hence the guesswork regarding Katie's contract length), but Stephen is definitely tied into a 6 year contract, as he's mentioned it in an interview (sorry, can't remember which one, but I've definitely heard him say it).

I remember it differently, in regards to ER- also doesn't sound like Clooney he has a reputation for upholding his contracts (for better or worse) i remember it was either George, or one of ER's EP's, said in an interview that his a contract ran until the end of the third season and when that was due he wanted to leave to do movies. so they struck a deal, he will stay on for another season and half- give the writers the time to properly plan his exit, while at the same time give him his freedom during the shooting months to go off and do movies.

and now that i think of it, that may be the reason why they got Doug and Carol together at the end of the third season, i wonder if Clooney would have stuck around longer if it would have taken longer for them to get back together. dammit now i can't unthink it!! and there isn't an ER forum on this website for me to go and ponder this!

Edited October 14, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Morrigan2575]

Are actor contracts not publicly reported?  I know Sports contracts are very public, we know the amount, years and in the case of Football what's guaranteed vs play dependent.

 

Mandy from TV Source Magazine reported that everyone on Arrow (except SA) had 3 year contracts which is apparently the new CBS norm.  SA was originally reported to have a 5 year contract but SA confirmed in an interview or Con that he is signed for 6 years.

 

I know that Jared/Jensen and TVD Trio all have/had 6 year contracts, Ian/Nina/Paul are in renegotiation now, or at least were over the summer (that was reported).

 

As far as KC goes, I guess it depends on if the Network/Studio considered her as an equal to SA (in that the show couldn't survive w/o her) and signed her to an identical contract as SA.  Or if they lumped her in with the ensemble actors.and gave her a 3 year contract.  There's also the possibility that KC was considered a Big Name Actor (by CW standards) and she was able to negotiate a better contract than even SA has.

[Ceylon5]

I remember it differently, in regards to ER- also doesn't sound like Clooney he has a reputation for upholding his contracts (for better or worse) i remember it was either George, or one of ER's EP's, said in an interview that his a contract ran until the end of the third season and when that was due he wanted to leave to do movies. so they struck a deal, he will stay on for another season and half- give the writers the time to properly plan his exit, while at the same time give him his freedom during the shooting months to go off and do movies.

and now that i think of it, that may be the reason why they got Doug and Carol together at the end of the third season, i wonder if Clooney would have stuck around longer if it would have taken longer for them to get back together. dammit now i can't unthink it!! and there isn't an ER forum on this website for me to go and ponder this!

 

Okay, according to this article, which was written just before the show's fifth season, Clooney's contract was for five years, which is why he stuck around until the 5th season (although actually he did leave before the end of his contract because he left in episode 15 of that season, which is maybe why I vaguely remember that he negotiated to leave a bit early for some movie commitment or other).

[SonofaBiscuit]

 

Mandy from TV Source Magazine reported that everyone on Arrow (except SA) had 3 year contracts which is apparently the new CBS norm.  SA was originally reported to have a 5 year contract but SA confirmed in an interview or Con that he is signed for 6 years.

 

 

I swear that I read something a few weeks ago on Mandy's tumblr page about KC's contract, but I can't find it now!  I don't know if it was removed, but I seem to remember someone asking about KC's contract and Mandy claiming that she never said it was a three year contract.  I wish I could find it now.  If KC has a 5 or 6 year contract, she's probably on the show until the bitter end.

[Morrigan2575]

No idea, I don't go to her site very often, too many freaking gifs

 

I did see her post where she talked about 3 year contracts being the new norm, in relationship to Arrow/CW

Edited October 14, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yeah, I don't go to that site often either because we don't really have the same taste in shows :)  I found the exchange, but it doesn't mention KC specifically.  So, here is the first question and answer:

Anon: With the Arrow actor contracts up for renegotiation with this season, do you think they will make public who re-upped and for how long and know where we could look for it?

 

Mandy: What gave you the idea that contracts were up this year? Most shows sign actors for six years.

 

 

 

The next response:

Anon: Apologies re: the assumption of the Arrow contracts being up. I thought you'd said something previously (not at all recently) about them being for three years. I must've misunderstood. Either way, you eased my mind with your answer so thank you. :)

 

Mandy: No problem, darling! Happy to ease your mind.

 

I'm sure that Mandy did say the thing about three years because this anon had the same impression as well.  Maybe she forgot she said that??

Edited October 14, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[foreverevolving]

Okay, according to this article, which was written just before the show's fifth season, Clooney's contract was for five years, which is why he stuck around until the 5th season (although actually he did leave before the end of his contract because he left in episode 15 of that season, which is maybe why I vaguely remember that he negotiated to leave a bit early for some movie commitment or other).

Well, the early leave was probably not Clooney's decision but the ep's and the writers. if i remember correctly it was either stated or assumed that they had his exit during the winter sweeps to also help the audience get used to him no longer being on the show so as to avoid the rating decline they feared will happen once he leaves and when the sixth season started airing. i can't remember the ratings right now, i was still living back in my home country at the time so i'm not sure about ratings.

 

regarding Stephen- if his salary is really only 30k and he is signed for 6 years, i can understand why he is doing so many cons. he probably assumed when the show started that it wouldn't go past the 5th top 6th year, due to the nature of Oliver history. so yea the guy is trying to probably bank as much cash as possible for a rainy day.

[formerlyfreedom]

Folks, if you want to continue the discussion of Arrow cast's salaries, let's take it over to Slings and Arrows: Behind the Scenes. This topic is for non-Arrow chatter, and while an occasional dip into chat is okay, we're going way off topic. Thanks

[apinknightmare]

Sorry about that - I brought the topic over here from another thread - I forgot the BtS thread existed!

[wingster55]

and instead of writing natural consequences for her evilness, they wrote Poor, poor Regina.  It's much better now.

 

I'm betting you didn't see last night's ep before writing that. Because jeez-us.

[Password]

Barry Allen is beautiful!!!! I absolutely adore that man, he's so different to man pain Oliver. Episode 2 was great, he got Caitlyn

to smile!!!

That's all I've wanted!!! I feel so bad about Iris but they're also adorable together.

The high speed telling-her-about-his-feelings thing was awesome.

Loved that scene.

[SonofaBiscuit]

From the Spoiler thread:

 

When Iris showed up in the second episode I was having flashback nightmares about Laurel. That's not a good thing. Hopefully the actress can get past that and win me over.

 

 

I think that my dislike of Laurel is actually bleeding over into The Flash, because I'm having issues with Iris.  I read The Flash episode two forum, and other people seem to like her, so I was wondering if it was just me.  Her annoyance with Barry's love of science, and her unprofessionalism in journalism irritated me.  Sometimes her tone of voice with Barry seems unnecessarily snotty to me...that's probably where my issue is coming from because that's a Laurel trait as well.  I hope that it gets better because I don't want to hate Iris! 

[quarks]

I like Iris. BUT - the fact that she has been placed in the Laurel position of not knowing the truth about Barry (and I honestly can't think of a single reason why she shouldn't either than "because comics!" and everyone on this board hates it when I try to say "because comics!" so I shall instead say, "because ice cream!") leaves me very wary. Not knowing Oliver's secret did not lead to Good Things for Laurel, which leads me to believe that it's not going to lead to good things for Iris, either.  Which is really unfair to Iris, I realize. 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't hate Iris but she's my least favorite character on the show.  They fell into the same pattern with Barry/Iris and Iris in general that Arrow has (IMO) with Oliver/Laurel and Laurel.  The fact that she can't know the secret leaves her out in the dust, she's either showing up as Barry's unrequited love or in relationship to Joe/Eddie.  They try to tie her into the A story by having her be with Barry when the MoW pops up.  Unfortunately it doesn't interest me, I don't hate her but I'd rather spend time with Team Flash, Joe/Eddie working the case or Wells' shadiness.

 

I'm also a little worried with the new storyline they're pushing her into, the intrepid reporter chasing after the Red Streak.

[SleepDeprived]

Putting this here 'cause I don't really know where it should go. Should this be in Laurel's thread? It's not really about her. So, not sure. Please move this, mods, if necessary? Thank you.

 

So, I don't mean this to be any sort of grammar policing or anything like that but can I talk about the term "good doer"?

 

I think I'm a little peeved that KC ever used that term to describe Laurel because, after she did, I just keep seeing it everywhere (freaking Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon!). I suppose she didn't mean it as anything other than to say Laurel is a "person who does good." But, well... On TWOP, it was initially used as a bit for snarking at Laurel/KC because that is really not any kind of term to describe her character. Actual definition of "good doer" from Oxford dictionaries:

 

A thing, especially a cultivated plant or domesticated animal, that thrives or performs well without special attention:

 

So it made me chuckle whenever I saw Laurel referred to as a "good doer". But, now, I don't know anymore if people are still using it facetiously or if they really mean it. Because internet text is a little hard to discern, sometimes (when will the sarcasm button be invented, Google?!).

 

Now, if KC meant that Laurel is a "do-gooder" then I think someone needs to tell her that that's not a positive attribute she should be touting about her chracter. It is actually pejorative with very negative connotations. But, ironically, actually does describe Laurel real well. Dictionary.com definition:

 

a well-intentioned but naive and often ineffectual social or political reformer.

 

Do-gooders may have good intentions, initially or at heart, but their methods are so suspect and troubling because they don't really understand the issue. They epitomize the idiom "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." But, really, I think this guy's definition of a "do-gooder" says it best:

 

Do-gooder isn’t a person who does good, otherwise there would be nothing to carp with. Do-gooders are those who are usually an obnoxious group, usually nosy, usually grandiose (and likely narcissistic and utopian) who have gotten into their heads that a course of action is correct without actually looking at the situation and knowing whether it is good or not. [snip] So do-gooders are irrational, holier-than-thou people who have no real grasp of what’s going on and thus no real understanding of what would be a genuinely good course of action. They usually fall back on sentiments and blind application of their methods, probably to feel good about themselves more than to actually bring real good into the world. They lack the humility to know the limits of their knowledge and the limits of their ability to do good. They blindly and arrogantly blaze ahead, deaf to reason. They have a bit of a savior complex. They’re self-congratulatory and meddlesome, doing more harm than good. [snip] Do-gooders need to be needed and thus impose themselves on others.

 

So, yeah. That sounds awfully familiar about how a certain character comes across to most. Heeeeyyy, Laurel. How you doing? Personally, I think the writers have been, for two freaking years, really trying to make her seem like a good person but the execution just often comes out as just all wrong hence "do-gooder."

 

TL, DR; Words are cool. Language/Linguistics is awesome. :)

[Orion]

Flash isn't my kind of show, I like the dark heroes which is why I tried Arrow in the first place. But I decided to watch it because I wanted to stay up to date on Arrow stuff for the crossovers. 

 

I'm not loving Iris. These EPs need to remove the word sister from their vocabulary. Never ever write about sisterly relationships or feeling sisterly towards someone. Just don't, EVER.  I also, get uncomfortable with her father wouldn't let her be a cop. She's in college (?)  I think, a young lady, so let her just rubs me the wrong way.

 

My Laurel trama is happening on Gotham. Every time  Barbara Gordon shows up on screen I get Laurel PTSD and flashbacks. 

 

Maybe the Arrow writers can offer some form of therapy for the condition they caused.

[SonofaBiscuit]

So it made me chuckle whenever I saw Laurel referred to as a "good doer". But, now, I don't know anymore if people are still using it facetiously or if they really mean it. Because internet text is a little hard to discern, sometimes (when will the sarcasm button be invented, Google?!).

 

 

Whenever I use that word about Laurel, I intentionally call her a good doer because of KC's improper use of the term.  I think that others are doing it on purpose, for sure.

Edited October 17, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[Starfish35]

I think that my dislike of Laurel is actually bleeding over into The Flash, because I'm having issues with Iris.  I read The Flash episode two forum, and other people seem to like her, so I was wondering if it was just me.  Her annoyance with Barry's love of science, and her unprofessionalism in journalism irritated me.  Sometimes her tone of voice with Barry seems unnecessarily snotty to me...that's probably where my issue is coming from because that's a Laurel trait as well.  I hope that it gets better because I don't want to hate Iris!

I'm having the same issue. I want to like Iris, I really do. I think Candice Patton and Grant Gustin have good chemistry, and she seems very sweet. But so much of Iris's dialogue could have been written for Laurel Lance, and my complete and utter loathing right now of all things Laurel just makes me flinch whenever Iris opens her mouth and Laurel pops out. I'm really really trying to judge her on her own merits, because I have this distinct feeling that if Laurel had not come before, I wouldn't be having any problems with Iris, and it's not fair to project my dislike of one character onto another. But I just keep getting the feeling that Iris is being written as a "nice" version of Laurel, and it's not helping me. :(

I also agree that they're doing her no favors by having her be the only major character in Barry's life who's not in on the secret. Hopefully they don't drag that out beyond the end of this season at the very latest.

[Sakura12]

Whenever Iris showed up, Laurel's face kept popping in my mind. It was very disconcerting.

 

I didn't get that with any other character, even with the fact that West is Detective just like Lance. They are different enough for me. Maybe because Joe is already in on the secret and is helping Barry and asking fun questions like "are you bulletproof?" when finding about what kind of powers he has. 

 

Maybe the Arrow writers can offer some form of therapy for the condition they caused.

 

The therapist would have to go all the way back to the Smallville days because that's where my tv trauma started.

[SleepDeprived]

Whenever I use that word about Laurel, I intentionally call her a good doer because of KC's improper use of the term.  I think that others are doing it on purpose, for sure.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought most people are doing. But, sometimes, I see the term too often and it gets to the point that I get confused which is the correct term: good doer or do-gooder. It's trivial but it makes me laugh as well as irks me. :)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yeah, that's what I thought most people are doing. But, sometimes, I see the term too often and it gets to the point that I get confused which is the correct term: good doer or do-gooder. It's trivial but it makes me laugh as well as irks me. :)

 

I actually did the same thing as I was typing my reply.  Good doer or do-gooder?  I had to check myself for a second to make sure I was using the incorrect KC version.

[foreverevolving]

@SleepDeprived Thank you! english is not my first language and i have been using good-doer thinking it was what do-gooder is. it's sad for to realize i have been using the wrong term and no one ever corrected me on it. but it's good to know that now I know the correct idiom and it's meaning.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, that's what I thought most people are doing. But, sometimes, I see the term too often and it gets to the point that I get confused which is the correct term: good doer or do-gooder. It's trivial but it makes me laugh as well as irks me. :)

 

@SleepDeprived, I'm just loving this discussion HARD. <3

 

I had never heard the term "good doer" before KC used it [well, English is not my first language], so I just thought she mispoke, and that the term didn't even exist, until I googled it and found the Wiki page for "easy keeper", or "good doer":

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_keeper

 

And I had always thought the term do-gooder was pejorative as well, and wondered if what KC meant was "goody two shoes", which these days is often used in a demeaning way, but it's the one that indicates a person actively trying to be good.

Edited October 17, 2014 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

It's not that I don't like Iris... I just love everyone else a lot more. I think Iris has more potential than Laurel ever had because with Iris, we can see that she's a good person and a good friend to Barry. Yes, she's a little naive, but she'll grow. Laurel, on the other hand was the opposite of Iris so I don't think it'd be fair to compare the two just because Iris is facing similar circumstances (soulmate/left in the dark). Hopefully the EPs handle Iris better and learned from the mistakes they made with Laurel. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Hopefully the EPs handle Iris better and learned from the mistakes they made with Laurel.

 

 

I'm getting the sense that these EPs don't learn from mistakes...they just repeat them.

[Starfish35]

It's not that I don't like Iris... I just love everyone else a lot more.

I don't know that I can say that, personally. Iris at this point, despite my criticism, at least seems to have more of a personality than Caitlyn (and I like Danielle Panabaker). Cisco is just comic relief, and Eddie at this point is no more than the pretty boy boyfriend. Right now, at least for me (and I know mileage varies), the ones driving this show are Barry, Joe, and Harrison. No one else has really made an impression.

ETA: This is making it sound like I don't like The Flash, and I do! I'm really enjoying it right now. I was in tears during that last scene with Barry and Joe in his lab. I just think most of their supporting characters are pretty paint-by-the-numbers at this point, and I hope that gets addressed in upcoming episodes.

ETA2: I am also hoping against hope that Iris gets a Carol Ferris moment when she finally gets a good face-to-face look at the Flash in his costume. If she doesn't recognize him instantly, I'm going to call foul.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[wingster55]

I think Iris not knowing will lead to her being the only to figure it out. Everyone else was told or saw Barry sans mask. 

[BkWurm1]

I immensely enjoy calling Laurel a good-dooer.  You bet it is on purpose.  ;)

[statsgirl]

I noticed that Roger Howarth (One Life To Live, General Hospital) is going to play Iris' mentor on The Flash, while Kathleen Gatti has move from Arrow to General Hospital.  Is there a special pipeling between the shows?

A thing, especially a cultivated plant or domesticated animal, that thrives or performs well without special attention:

Laurel is the very opposite of that -- she gets tons of special attention and storylines but she's not thriving at all except in terms of being pushed forward.

[wingster55]

Why I love Amy Santiago:

[Velocity23]

Dachsunds Creek

[Velocity23]

[JayKay]

Coincidentally just as I begin enjoying AoS on its own merits, there's a bonus AoU trailer. Should I be frightened that I'm this positively excited for next week?

[kieyra]

Hey guys. New show fan. Shotgunned the first two seasons via Netflix, got myself in a scuffle on the SHIELD forums, bought the t-shirt. 

 

I also started shipping Felicity and Oliver during their first scene together, but never thought the show runners would do anything with that, and instead by the end of S2 they turned it into a huge knife and twisted it in my HEART.

 

And in case you're wondering how brand-new viewers react to Laurel in a binge-watch setting: Hate her. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by kieyra

[Sakura12]

Agents of SHIELD got much better having added their own double baton wielding badass. I'm still enjoying it and now for me it's not the worst superhero show out there, I think that falls to Gotham. That show needs to pick up the pace because it's really boring right now and I'm trying to give it a chance since the Riddler and babyCatwomen were at a con here and told us to keep watching for episode 7. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by Sakura12