Small Talk: The Quiver

[Genki]

I liked Blake best as well, and was disappointed that they didn't get him back.

 

He and Mary had a nice and open friendship towards the end of Season 5 and, like with Matthew, she showed him her true self, pretty much.

 

I dislike how everyone was telling Mary how she felt about Tony and nothing was shown that really backed it up.

[kismet]

Just finished watching "Showrunners: the art of running a TV show" by director, Des Doyle. It was a documentary made for PBS. It was pretty interesting. It featured Abrams, Whedon, Lindelhof, Ronald D. Moore. As well as the showrunners of Fringe, Spartacus, Persons of Interest, Rizzoli & Isles, Bones, Big Bang Theory and a few other shows. I would recommend it for people who are interested in showrunning.

 

Perhaps my favorite quote came from Whedon... who advocated for moments over moves.

 

"The philosophy of my room for the writers has always been, fall in love with moments not moves. A move is 'Oh, my god it was his evil twin.' Evil twin gives you nothing. Unless there is some extremely relatable thing that everybody has gone through in regards to an evil twin that you can mine and that's your moment. We will protect moments at all costs. I will give up a good move in a heartbeat. It's very hard. Most writers are taught to just keep it going till you get to the end. Whew, we got through another one and then shout it out of the warehouse. ... Every show needs to have a separate intent. What do we need to see, what is the big movie moment, whether it's emotional, whether it's funny, whether it's action - what;s that thing that we're leading up to that you know that hits you in the heart."

I wish there was some way I could bang parts of this philosophy into MG & WM's heads that ARROW is a much better show when it lives for the moments and the characters, not just the gotcha moves. It boggles my mind because sometimes Arrow can get it right and build on moments and then other times they get it so wrong. But whenever they get it wrong it is almost always linked to the fact that they are writing to gotcha moves and not moments.

 

People also made some comments about being worrisome with shows that have 5 year plans. That there needs to be some type of plan, but perhaps balance is the key. Good show ideas are hard to come up with, so if you were able to turn out 5 years worth of stories in a few months that is worrisome for quality.

[BkWurm1]

But I don't mind that Mary blew the secret at breakfast. I think Edith had that coming since she wrote to the Turkish Embassy. That betrayal threw Mary's whole honor into peril, which was their only commodity at the time. Personally, I cheered a little. I think it was very deceitful of Edith to not tell Bertie about Marigold's parentage, there was no need for her to mention it at the beginning of their courtship, but she should have told him before she said yes, especially when they were talking about children. Edith was asking for Bertie to be a step-father without fulling telling him the whole truth. I think he'll forgive her, but I did find it shady of both Edith & Robert to try to trick him into a marriage without full information.

 

I'm actually pretty positive that the reason Edith leaked the thing about Mary was because Mary chased off Edith's only suitor out of spite.  Plus it was 10 years ago and before the war.  They were practically different people. 

 

Bertie knew Marigold was a part of the package so having her around was never the objection or secret, it was the truth about her parentage.  Edith absolutely dithered about telling him but she dithers about most big things.  That's how she processes.  It's not always pretty but since the war she in the end has always done the closest to the right thing that was available. 

 

 

 

I think Mary was a bit hurt that everyone knew about and was lying to her about Marigold (especially some of her trusted and closest confidants) and turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy that she would use it against Edith, which I suspect she wouldn't if they had let her in.

 

 

 

Hurt?  Seemed more like annoyed to me.  She still showed not a lick of interest in Marigold apart from not being in the know.  I think Mary would have used it against Edith no matter if she'd always known or just found out. 

 

. I really do not think that Mary was intentionally trying to ruin her sister's happiness or engagement. I think she just thought that the secret would already be out since all of the other people important to Edith knew about the secret. Mary can be mean, but I don't think she was intentionally that mean at this point in their lives. And I do believe that her apology was sincere. Even if it was intentional on Mary's part, I really had no sympathy for Edith because she had ample & appropriate time to tell Bertie.

 

 

The conversation between Edith and Mary made it pretty clear that Mary very much blurted out the truth to hurt Edith's relationship.  Did she really think what she was doing through past getting back at Edith who was for once the one successfully needling Mary?  Maybe not, but Mary's reaction to Edith calling her on her crap (aka very well knowing that Bertie didn't know the truth) erased any doubts IMO that Mary didn't accidentally tell her secrets.   

 

Yes, Edith should have told Bertie but she still had time to do that. They weren't married yet. No one even knew.   Even if Mary felt a righteous need for Bertie to have the truth, she had no right to be the one to judge how much time Edith was allowed to take to tell him.  It really was none of her business.  And Mary didn't care a bit about Bertie until suddenly he might be important.  

 

Mary is one of those people that everyone strives to keep happy because she's just vicious and powerful enough to do incredibly hateful, destructive things and get away with them.  Then people turn around and chastise the person that dared do something that put Mary out of temper rather than calling Mary on her childish and vindictive behavior.  It was one thing when they were both just out in society and where both girls were fairly young and shallow but 10 years later, yeah, Mary is not a person I would ever trust in real life, not unless she fully respected you (and maybe not even then).  She'd trip and break a heel one day then decide you need to be the one made to look more foolish. 

 

Again, I'm hoping she'll get some kind of character growth in the final episode and turn out to be a better human than she has been.  Edith isn't brash or bold but she shouldn't be despised and treated like trash just because they have different personalities. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

I'm actually pretty positive that the reason Edith leaked the thing about Mary was because Mary chased off Edith's only suitor out of spite.  Plus it was 10 years ago and before the war.  They were practically different people. 

 

No, it was the other way around. Mary chased Strallen off in retribution for Edith blabbing about Pamuk by telling him how she and Edith laughed themselves silly about an old dude being after Edith. Hey, that was probably the start of Edith's literary career, she did it via letter! I think Edith unveiled the Pamuk thing after she overheard Cora mollifying Mary that Edith had no shot with anyone, anyway. Cora and Robert were pretty uncapable parents at times No wonder those girls would turn feral on each other.

[tv echo]

This NY Times article is fascinating...

 

What It’s Really Like to Work in Hollywood*
(*If you’re not a straight white man.)
By MELENA RYZIK FEB. 24, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/24/arts/hollywood-diversity-inclusion.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

The statistics are unequivocal: Women and minorities are vastly underrepresented in front of and behind the camera. Here, 27 industry players reveal the stories behind the numbers — their personal experiences of not feeling seen, heard or accepted, and how they pushed forward. In Hollywood, exclusion goes far beyond #OscarsSoWhite. (Interviews have been edited and condensed.)

Edited February 25, 2016 by tv echo

[FurryFury]

Well I guess I needed a reminder why you guys dislike The Flash boards so much. Wow, so much Felicity hate. I'm not even a huge Flarrow fan (I'm more into LoT ATM), but I'm shocked.

[NumberCruncher]

Well I guess I needed a reminder why you guys dislike The Flash boards so much. Wow, so much Felicity hate. I'm not even a huge Flarrow fan (I'm more into LoT ATM), but I'm shocked.

Meh, whatever. If it makes them feel better to believe that a character on an entirely different show who gets mentioned every now and then is somehow threatening the status of the female lead on that show then I say go for it. Objectively speaking, Felicity's existence has zero bearing on Iris's status on that show.

Edited February 25, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Delphi]

Deleted.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Delphi

[NumberCruncher]

Danger Will Robinson! ;) :P

[Delphi]

Danger Will Robinson! ;) :P

Lol I just saw the warning, it's so not worth it anyway.

[tv echo]

'Riverdale’ Finds Its Archie & Josie: KJ Apa To Topline CW Pilot
by Nellie Andreeva •  February 24, 2016 5:36pm
http://deadline.com/2016/02/riverdale-archie-cast-kj-apa-cw-pilot-1201708847/

[BkWurm1]

'Riverdale’ Finds Its Archie & Josie: KJ Apa To Topline CW Pilot

by Nellie Andreeva •  February 24, 2016 5:36pm

http://deadline.com/2016/02/riverdale-archie-cast-kj-apa-cw-pilot-1201708847/

Ok, that's not at all who I'd picture as Archie.  Then I wouldn't say "an intense, conflicted teen" is who Archie is either.  The show sounds promising in a CW way but I don't get an Archie Comics vibe at all.  Why bother calling it Riverdale if they are just changing all the characters? 

[lemotomato]

'Riverdale’ Finds Its Archie & Josie: KJ Apa To Topline CW Pilot

by Nellie Andreeva •  February 24, 2016 5:36pm

http://deadline.com/2016/02/riverdale-archie-cast-kj-apa-cw-pilot-1201708847/

Aaaaand when will I learn not to read the comments section? Because there is never anything to find there but reminders of just how ignorant people are.

[tv echo]

Camila Mendes has been cast Veronica in Riverdale...

 

‘Riverdale’ CW Pilot Finds Veronica
by Nellie Andreeva • February 26, 2016 5:16pm
http://deadline.com/2016/02/riverdale-archie-comics-pilot-veronica-camila-mendes-cw-1201710249/

Set in present time, Riverdale is a subversive take on Archie (KJ Apa), Betty (Lili Reinhart), Veronica (Mendes) and their friends, exploring the surrealism of small-town life — the darkness and weirdness bubbling beneath Riverdale’s wholesome façade.
 

Mendes’ intelligent and confident Veronica Lodge is a silver-tongued high school sophomore who returns to Riverdale from New York, eager to reinvent herself after a scandal involving her father.

 

[tv echo]

Here's the entire Riverdale cast...

 

https://twitter.com/RapaportCasting/status/703390809136058368

[Jediknight]

Just popping in to say John Oliver is beyond awesome.

[statsgirl]

What did John Oliver do?  Do you have a link?

 

For the first time in a long time, I'm pretty happy with the Oscar awards (not so happy about the lack of diversity but impressed by Chris Rock's work on it).  As a film Spotlight blew me away and I think everyone should see it (apparently even the Vatican is showing it) and it's time for Leonardo DiCaprio to win that Oscar.

 

But what makes me very happy is Brie Larson winning Best Actress because not only did she do a great job in the role, even isolating herself at home for weeks in preparation, but she had to flip in and out of character because they had decided that she should be the one directing the kid in the scenes.  So she would have to get out of the role to tell him small things like where to put his hand, and then go back in to do the scene herself.

[Jediknight]

What did John Oliver do?  Do you have a link?

Destroyed Donald Drumpf AKA Donald Trump.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jediknight

[FurryFury]

Mad Max and The Martian were the only nominated movies I've seen. All of the other seem horribly boring, judging by their descriptions. Don't care about DiCaprio at all - used to dislike him, lately I'm mostly neutral. Kinda tired of all the memes though.

 

Glad that Mad Max at least won so many technical nominations. It was a pretty good film. 

[Delphi]

I'm mostly neutral, but I'm glad that he finally won after a thousand years. I also enjoyed his focusing on climate change.

[jay741982]

Had only seen The Martian and Mad Max: Fury Road of the Oscar Films before last night. Just got done with Spotlight it's a very good Powerful film I'd recommend it as well. Happy for Brie Larson winning as I remember her from 21 Jump Street movie, The Gambler and Train wreck, also glad Leo finally got an Oscar though I feel he should have had one already lol. I was told by the owner of the video rental place I go too that Room is possibly out tomorrow on Blu-Ray/DVD might have to check it out

[statsgirl]

I think one of the really impressive things about Spotlight is that it made research exciting. Even though I knew the outcome of the film because it's history, I was still on the edge-of-my-seating rooting for them.  Brooklyn is what they call 'a quiet picture' so I can see that it might be boring.  (Strangely, I was just in a bookstore and there was a copy of Colm Tobin's New Way To Kill Your Mother.  I skipped on it because of the title.)

 

Is Michael Keaton on a new high?  Second year in a row he was in the movie that won Best Picture.

Destroyed Donald Drumpf AKA Donald Trump.

Awesome.

 

One of the things I admire about the comedy/political shows like The Daily Show, the old Colbert Report and John Oliver is that they really go back in the files and do their research.  When a politician comes out and says something, many times they'll show a clip of him 8 years earlier fighting for the opposite side. I wish more regular news stations like CNN would bother to do that instead of just accepting their Words of The Day.

[Morrigan2575]

Talk about a blast from the past TWOP Omar (used to write the Smallville recaps) is writing The Walking Dead recaps here at Pre.tv.

[calliope1975]

Talk about a blast from the past TWOP Omar (used to write the Smallville recaps) is writing The Walking Dead recaps here at Pre.tv.

 

Really? I'm going to have to check them out. I loved Omar! Met him once at a Smallville Con in Houston; he was a really nice guy. 

[Starfish35]

Oh wow. :) Those were my intro to TWOP.

[thegirlsleuth]

Talk about a blast from the past TWOP Omar (used to write the Smallville recaps) is writing The Walking Dead recaps here at Pre.tv.

I started watching Smallville based on those recaps. I found the recaps more entertaining.

[Chaser]

My personal favorite is Hush, but yeah, The Body was a whole episode devoted to dealing with the emotional fallout of a major event. Other than the one quick scene in the morgue, there aren't even any monsters in it. It is pretty widely-considered the best BtVS episode ever, and Guggie would sell his firstborn before producing it. The whole funeral scene w/ flashbacks will probably be five minutes, then it'll be all action. 

Hush, The Body, Once More With Feeling.

 

Those are the three episodes I tell any Buffy-Non Believer to watch.

[looptab]

You guys talk so much about Buffy that I might have to finally check it out..

[Delphi]

I never advise Once More With Feeling. I love it but I don't think it really showed BtVS for what it was. I do absolutely always suggest Anne which might be one of my most favorite episodes of anything ever.

And you should looptab. It can be dated in the earlier seasons, but it is so worth it.

[Jediknight]

I'd recommend Hush and Earshot as introductions, Earshot might be a little uncomfortable to watch since it has to do with someone at the school plotting to kill everyone.  My other favorite episodes like Graduation Day (both parts), Becoming (both parts), The Wish, Innocence, and Prophecy Girl all work a lot better if you've seen everything leading up to them.

[catrox14]

For all the Buffy love, I'm gonna put in my word for Angel.  My favorite show before I watched BSG and SPN....they are all on the same continuum of awesome in different ways :)

[looptab]

I'll give it a try :)

[Jediknight]

I second the recommendation for Angel, I liked it more than Buffy.  If you want a gateway episode for Angel, I'd suggest "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been", great episode and you can watch the episode with little or no knowledge about the show.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Jediknight

[catrox14]

@JediKnight, I think Smile Time could also be a gateway episode,,,what do you think? 

[BkWurm1]

I second the recommendation for Angel, I liked it more than Buffy.  If you want a gateway episode for Angel, I'd suggest "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been", great episode and you can watch the episode with little or no knowledge about the show.

I was a part time Buffy viewer and only watched the last season of Angel (I hated the idea of Angel and Cordelia so waited til she was gone)  but I loved that season. I understand that it was a different in some ways but just tossing it out there as proof that you can pop into the show even late and it still be a great experience. 

[FurryFury]

Yeah I hated Angel and Cordelia too. Not necessarily the idea (although meh), but definitely the execution (they also ruined Cordelia by turning her into Saint!Cordy). Thank God it only lasted a season (the main reason I'm not a big fan of s3).

 

I wouldn't recommend watching Angel over Buffy. You should watch both :) (I do love Angel more, personally, because Buffy's later seasons are.. polarizing, to say the least, plus, it just fits my preferences better).  These shows are my all-time favorites, so I think absolutely everybody should give them a try. Although Buffy especially starts very slow, so s1 (while fun) isn't that great. 

[Chaser]

Hush is the perfect blend of horror and comedy. The Body is one of the most terrifyingly honest hours of television. OMWF is an hour of television that shouldn't work. At the most it should be a filler you enjoy but you toss out after viewing. But it's brilliant. It's a study on the characters, where they are and how far they've come, and it still pushed the plot forwards.

So if you want to see what Buffy is capable of doing, those are my picks.

But seriously so many good episodes. Becoming (1&2), The Gift, Pangs, Something Blue, The third season finale that I'm drawing a blank on but the third season as a whole is so good.

I enjoyed Angel but it took me a bit to get there. I really did not like what they did with Cordy or Connor. I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep watching after that but I'm glad I did because S5 was good. I loved Wesley and his development, everything Fred and Ilyria, Cordy's goodbye, Spike and Angel Frenimes, The Finale, etc..

[Morrigan2575]

Cordy was my favorite character on Angel and I loved Cordy/Angel.  I absolutely loathed Buffy/Angel that was the most disfuctionally fucked up relationship on TV...until Starbuck/Apollo came along.  

 

I quite watching Angel after they destroyed Cordy's character with that whole ConCord shit.  To this day Cordy is the best character (IMO) to come out of the Buffyverse.

[Chaser]

Cordy/Angel. I couldn't say I ever really shipped them. I enjoyed the friendship and the relationship they were building and then the Connor stuff happened and all goodwill just crashed down. I did not get it at all. No point.

Cordy grew on me. I wasn't a big fan of the character until Angel. Which is funny because I wasn't happy with that move to Angel. I couldn't see it at all but I was wrong. It was great for the character and the show.

[Morrigan2575]

That whole ConCord thing and killing Cordy was all due to BTS stuff, nothing to do with creative decisions or anything.

[jay741982]

You guys talk so much about Buffy that I might have to finally check it out..

Please do Looptab it's a fantastic show! Loved the first three seasons and other episodes like Once more with Feeling, The Body, Hush. I agree That the 3rd season is amazing and the second and third season finales are among the Best season finales of a show I ever seen. I highly recommend Angel as well

[Delphi]

I love Cordelia so much. She really grew as a character in Angel. Late season 3 and 4 wrecked her so much but I think You're Welcome did a lot to redeem her. Ugh. Forever bitter about the behind the scenes drama though. Sorry Harmony Kendall, you were absolutely no Cordelia Chase.

[Sakura12]

The Body was such a powerful episode. I don't think I've seen any other show spend an entire episode on it like Buffy did.  Hush was another completely different episode one that I've never seen done before. 

 

Once More With Feeling only works if you know the characters. I don't think you can start someone on that episode. It's fun for fans of the show. I will have to say I remember blasting the soundtrack in my car. It's the same with Smile Time on Angel. You have to know the show to appreciate what they did. 

 

I loved Cordy on Buffy and loved when she moved to Angel. Did not love Cordy/Connor at all. I know why we had that awful storyline but it still soured me on Cordy's character. For me Faith is the best character to come out of the Whedonverse, well her and Captain Tightpants. Faith is probably why I like Sara so much, she reminds me of her. 

[Chaser]

You're Welcome is one of my favorite episodes ever. Handset is 20/20 because I didn't realize just how much I loved Cordy till that episode.

OMWF had a great soundtrack. I still listen to it.

I watched Buffy backwards. I watched the last few seasons before watching the first. I think The Gift was the first episode I watched. It impressed me enough to look for the seasons.

[bijoux]

I clicked with Angel much more than I did with Buffy straight off the bat. I stopped watching it though, sso I don't know about the BTS drama. Would appreciate a cliff notes version.

[Delphi]

I clicked with Angel much more than I did with Buffy straight off the bat. I stopped watching it though, sso I don't know about the BTS drama. Would appreciate a cliff notes version.

Charisma got pregnant, didn't tell anyone until it was way too late to change storylines. Joss got mad, threw a temper tantrum, coma death was the result.

[Sakura12]

I watched Buffy first so it will always hold a place in my heart. Despite the later seasons not being that great.

[catrox14]

Charisma got pregnant, didn't tell anyone until it was way too late to change storylines. Joss got mad, threw a temper tantrum, coma death was the result.

As I remember it, joss planned for Cordy to always be the big bad for s4, but charisma not revealing her pregnancy until way late in the game forced joss to change plot. I heard that charisma was also in contract negotiations and that she used the pregnancy as tactic to stall and get a raise. I have no idea if that was true but it did strike me as rather unprofessional of Charisma to not let them know about her pregnancy earlier.

That said I think joss was a diva and it bit him in the ass when he demanded an early renewal when the networks changed and the CW said too bad so sad, your cancelled. Of course I think they might have been less inclined to cancel Angel so if they didn't already have SPN in the wings to fulfill the horror fantasy needs. And boy howdy, did I resent the hell out of SPN. So much so that refused to ever watch until like 2 years ago. The bittercakes were bitter and stupid. Lol.

Oh man, Hush is one the most disturbing episodes of anything I have ever watched. The Gentlemen are forever the creepiest creeps to ever creep. Gahhhhh

[FurryFury]

I don't there's anything bad in asking for an early renewal. Otherwise you get canceled on a cliffhanger, leaving the fans furious. At least Angel had one of the best series finales of all time.

[AyChihuahua]

Hush is the perfect blend of horror and comedy. The Body is one of the most terrifyingly honest hours of television. OMWF is an hour of television that shouldn't work. At the most it should be a filler you enjoy but you toss out after viewing. But it's brilliant. It's a study on the characters, where they are and how far they've come, and it still pushed the plot forwards.

So if you want to see what Buffy is capable of doing, those are my picks.

But seriously so many good episodes. Becoming (1&2), The Gift, Pangs, Something Blue, The third season finale that I'm drawing a blank on but the third season as a whole is so good.

Off the top of my head I think Hush is maybe my favorite episode of any show, ever. I also loved Once More and lots of others; I love Jus in Bello and Monster Movie (Supernatural), and several episodes of Veronica Mars, but Hush is, IMO, perfect. Horrifically scary villains, an incredibly creative idea (no talking for nearly the whole episode) pulled off incredibly well, several laugh out loud, literally, moments (for me Anya's dirty little hand motion post-Xander "saving" her from Spike, and the whole wordless skit thing with Buffy motioning staking, but without the stake, actually that whole scene in the classroom auditorium w Giles explaining the monsters, I DIE every time), great fight scenes, the spine-tingling moment when Willow grasps Tara's hand and moves the vending machine, sweet Willow/Buffy stuff...

 

Okay, I'm going to have to watch it again now.

 

And I'd rank S3 and S2, and Veronica Mars S1 as the best seasons of shows I've watched. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by AyChihuahua