S03.E07: Draw Back Your Bow

[ban1o]

Not to speak for the original poster, but my issue with it at least was that the rest of them were getting this awesome bonding friend moment and Felicity didn't get to be a part of it. She's as much part of the team as the rest of them and also could use a lighter moment like that in her life with all the heavy stuff they do. But she's isolated from her friends and her team to have dinner with a guy that had done some things that I thought was weird to get her to go to this dinner.

Yeah that's what I thought statsgirl was getting at. (not to speak for her of course)

Edited November 20, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Regarding Felicity being sequestered from Diggle & Roy & Oliver, I wonder if that's part of the overarching theme of the season? Maybe she's going to find that while she is happy with the kind of life she has outside of the foundry, she's happier when she's in it and able to dedicate more time to that cause. Maybe she's going to miss out on some things that will make her realize that? She's never been on the outside looking in before. It seems like all of these people need to find a healthy balance between their two lives. This might be part of Felicity finding hers.

 

I'm probably giving the show too much credit, but...I don't know.

[statsgirl]

I am not understanding how someone can hate two single guys eating a meal with a married couple that invited them over.  Lyla extended the invite through John and was obviously okay with Roy as a fourth.  Being that angry over a friendly meal seems a bit outsized.

I'm hate that they are deliberately keeping Felicity in Ray's orbit.  Felicity should be there too, dammit.  Team Arrow is what I watch for and they are ruining it this season with their stupid angst.  It's such a turn-off of the show, and Laurel is already doing more than enough of that.

 

Or what Tangerine said.

 

 

That said, I was really most upset by Diggle tonight, and his talk with Felicity. This is the first Diggle and Felicity scene we get all season, and it's about Oliver's headspace?

Pretty much every Team Arrow interaction was lacking for me except Oliver/Roy.

 

That said, it was like season 1 when Felicity went to Diggle's apartment to mend the fight with Oliver and Diggle said that Oliver had to be the one to make amends.

Edited November 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[Guest]

I just don't understand how Felicity went from disliking Ray and likening him to a stalker, to being perturbed about him turning up at her house while she's still in her PJ's, to suddenly 'Ray is wonderful and inspiring' and all flirty flirt. It makes no sense. I haven't seen that dynamic earned. It's a complete joke.

 

And I really didn't like Felicity tonight which makes me sad because she's one of my favorite characters. And it's not her choosing to move on because I think any sane woman would try to move on if she'd just heard the man she loves say he has to be alone. But it's the way it's happening. Ray basically threw a load of money at her and she fell for it, hook and line. It was gross and not what I expect from Felicity at all.

 

The only saving grace for me is that she did let Ray kiss her after she heard what Oliver said which spells out rebound to me but ugh. I just don't want to see this relationship at all. It's seriously problematic and the fact that Felicity doesn't see that is worrisome. 

 

This episode wasn't just angsty it was painful uncomfortable cringe-worthy angst and that is just not watchable or enjoyable.

[Orion]

I actually enjoyed this episode and I have only been able to say that about 2 others this season.

Cupid was fun crazy and finally a villain that developed a bit. She had actual motivations, they were crazy but she had them.

Diggle and Felicity friendship scenes I have missed you so much.

Diggle back to being the mentor of the group. Welcome back from pod person land Digg.

Ray just doesn't bother me. He is here to move the story along. I'm fine with it. Felicity said the dress was a loaner and so was the necklace. She was fine with him kissing her and giving her those things, therefore I am okay with it.  I'm just not going to get upset about a plot device relationship that gave me more story growth with the two people I care about then I have gotten since the premiere.

I continue to sympathize with both Oliver and Felicity's points of view.

 

Didn't like that Felicity was fine with the renaming but if Oliver doesn't want the company then I guess there is nothing she can do about it.  Choices have consequences Oliver.

No Laurel will always make an episode a 1000X better.

The Hong Kong flashbacks are terrible I have no idea what's going on in them.  I think I blank out.

DJ boy and I are not going to get along.

 

I thought the dialogue was clunky at points. Please stop letting these two writers work on scripts together show. Please

 

It was predictable but fun and after what this season has become I will take fun.

 

My expectations going in were low and for once Arrow exceded them.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Orion

[foreverevolving]

It's lucky Ray is around to irritate everyone this week otherwise the entire lack of Laurel (which honestly didn't even occur to me until the episode was over) would leave everyone with nothing to complain about.

 

Didn't even realize it until you mentioned it. that's how much i didn't miss her.

and since i don't mind Ray too much, as far as i'm concerned this was a pretty darn good episode. 7.5 out of 10.

 

 

Cupid was pretty good as wacky as i thought she would be, not as delicious as i had hoped. Loved the Harley reference- so does this mean she escaped or was killed? Dear Arrow- if you killed my harley there will be hell to pay.

There was actual throat construction and teary eyes during the speech Oliver gave to Cupid but was really meant for Felicity. and when he walked in and than destroyed that stuff he throw off the table. It's Okay Oliver, even though this is totally your own doing I can make it better. I love the fact that instead of wallowing he took Roy and took Dig up on his offer.

 

Diggle was.. in character! so yay for that.

 

Felicity Smoak VICE- PRESIDENT!! of QC... did i hear that right?!! woo hooo to our girl!!!

which calls for:

 

And while I am happy.. umm: wouldn't Palmer's company already have a Vice President? sooo are we missing something about her title? (or did I miss something?)

 

I'm confused at why Felicity was tearing up during her "Ray is awesome" speech. I'm okay with her moving on from Oliver for now because Oliver is not yet ready for her and Ray is total Rebound so... Plus i'd totally tap him if given the chance.

Edited November 20, 2014 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

I'm confusing at why Felicity was tearing up during her "Ray is awesome" speech. I'm okay with her moving on from Oliver for now. i'd totally tap

 

Maybe we were supposed to think that she was seeing a lot of Oliver in him/talking about Oliver while she was talking about Ray.

[Shanna]

That said, it was like season 1 when Felicity went to Diggle's apartment to mend the fight with Oliver and Diggle said that Oliver had to be the one to make amends.

Good point. What saved that conversation for me is that felicity wasn't having it and Diggle accepted that and turned around to talk to Oliver. I think Diggle has always been a natural matchmaker anyway, so he is very open about his advice.

I do think they are developing this ray/felicity thing too quickly, but they don't seem all that fond of pacing in general. If there had been a few more episodes showing felicity getting more interested in her job in general I would have preferred it.

Maybe we were supposed to think that she was seeing a lot of Oliver in him/talking about Oliver while she was talking about Ray.

I like that interpretation, but the show didn't really sell it. The only other thing I could think was ray wanting to give QCs extra energy to the city, which was pretty nice. But they needed more time to set that Emotion up if it was supposed to e legit. Edited November 20, 2014 by Shanna

[ban1o]

Good point. What saved that conversation for me is that felicity wasn't having it and Diggle accepted that and turned around to talk to Oliver. I think Diggle has always been a natural matchmaker anyway, so he is very open about his advice.

I do think they are developing this ray/felicity thing too quickly, but they don't seem all that fond of pacing in general. If there had been a few more episodes showing felicity getting more interested in her job in general I would have preferred it.

I don't think the writers even know what pacing is tbh :P 

[apinknightmare]

I don't think the writers even know what pacing is tbh :P 

 

Just like Ray doesn't know what platonic means!

[statsgirl]

Regarding Felicity being sequestered from Diggle & Roy & Oliver, I wonder if that's part of the overarching theme of the season? Maybe she's going to find that while she is happy with the kind of life she has outside of the foundry, she's happier when she's in it and able to dedicate more time to that cause. Maybe she's going to miss out on some things that will make her realize that? She's never been on the outside looking in before. It seems like all of these people need to find a healthy balance between their two lives. This might be part of Felicity finding hers.

Felicity has always been on the outside looking in.  She even told Sara (in the deleted scene) that the Arrow lair was the first place that felt like home.

She appears to have no friends other than Diggle and Oliver and Roy, she doesn't get along with her mother, and people at work talk about her.

 

What I got from it is that Felicity is being punished by refusing to wait around for Oliver to get his head out of his ass.  She's lost her friends, who are having good times without her, and all she's got is creepy Ray now.

 

Maybe we were supposed to think that she was seeing a lot of Oliver in him/talking about Oliver while she was talking about Ray.

I interpreted that as all the things she  had loved about Oliver, she's now putting on Ray instead, plus the treating her well.

 

I just don't understand how Felicity went from disliking Ray and likening him to a stalker, to being perturbed about him turning up at her house while she's still in her PJ's, to suddenly 'Ray is wonderful and inspiring' and all flirty flirt. It makes no sense. I haven't seen that dynamic earned. It's a complete joke.

 

And I really didn't like Felicity tonight which makes me sad because she's one of my favorite characters. 

I didn't like Felicity at all either and she was the reason I got into this show.

 

It makes me wonder if they are deliberately destroying her so that Laurel doesn't look so bad.

Edited November 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[Tangerine]

I just don't understand how Felicity went from disliking Ray and likening him to a stalker, to being perturbed about him turning up at her house while she's still in her PJ's, to suddenly 'Ray is wonderful and inspiring' and all flirty flirt. It makes no sense. I haven't seen that dynamic earned. It's a complete joke.

 

And I really didn't like Felicity tonight which makes me sad because she's one of my favorite characters. And it's not her choosing to move on because I think any sane woman would try to move on if she'd just heard the man she loves say he has to be alone. But it's the way it's happening. Ray basically threw a load of money at her and she fell for it, hook and line. It was gross and not what I expect from Felicity at all.

 

The only saving grace for me is that she did let Ray kiss her after she heard what Oliver said which spells out rebound to me but ugh. I just don't want to see this relationship at all. It's seriously problematic and the fact that Felicity doesn't see that is worrisome. 

 

Yes, pretty much this. And it unfortunately makes Felicity appear insensitive when you put scenes of her flirting/kissing a guy that buys her nice clothes and jewelry next to a scene with Oliver being all sensitive and wearing his heart on his sleeve with Diggle after he defeated a criminal, going on about how much he loves her and it's tearing him apart. Again: Oliver is being an emotionally stunted idiot and needs to grow the heck up, but the contrast is pretty stark that you wonder what exactly the writers are trying to convey here. They obviously do want us to be on Oliver's side in all of this, even though Felicity has a completely valid reason for wanting to move on with her life, but it's also making her look shallow, which is not in character for her .

 

It makes me wonder if they are deliberately destroying her so that Laurel doesn't look so bad.

 

And because I don't trust the writers at all, this is also what I'm paranoid about.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tangerine

[apinknightmare]

Felicity has always been on the outside looking in.  She even told Sara (in the deleted scene) that the Arrow lair was the first place that felt like home.

She appears to have no friends other than Diggle and Oliver and Roy, she doesn't get along with her mother, and people at work talk about her.

 

I mean that she hasn't been on the outside looking in as far as the team is concerned. If she does feel like that's her home and she feels like she's losing it, maybe that will force her to rethink some things.

 

Although honestly I don't think that much thought has been put into her behavior. They need her to be with Ray for manpain purposes, so she's with Ray for manpain purposes.

[Soulfire]

Regarding Felicity being sequestered from Diggle & Roy & Oliver, I wonder if that's part of the overarching theme of the season? Maybe she's going to find that while she is happy with the kind of life she has outside of the foundry, she's happier when she's in it and able to dedicate more time to that cause. Maybe she's going to miss out on some things that will make her realize that? She's never been on the outside looking in before. It seems like all of these people need to find a healthy balance between their two lives. This might be part of Felicity finding hers.

 

I'm probably giving the show too much credit, but...I don't know.

 

I think you're on to something here. Guggentroll talked about setting chess pieces and them being set in 3x09, so moving Felicity away from Oliver and Team Arrow was probably them starting to push those pieces already in 3x02.

 

Just as Oliver's journey this season is about him finding a way to be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow - or coming to the realization he is both, then finding a way how to be both at the same time or realizing he always was - Felicity needs to be removed from the Foundry, create a life outside of it and Team Arrow so she can later make a choice that their cause is something she wants to dedicate herself to. By the end of the season Felicity will have found a life outside of the Foundry and how to balance that with Team Arrow; Oliver will have learned to balance the two identities within him.

 

Or some jazz like that.

[Tangerine]

Surprised they didn't double up and have Roy see the Thea/DJ kiss.

 

The lack of this, and the fact that Roy maturely accepted Thea's decision to move on with her life has officially made theirs the most mature relationship on this show.

[fantique]

Normally, The Flash vs. The Arrow would intrigue me, but considering how sour I've been with Ollie this season, I just want to see Barry slow-mo sonic punch Ollie a few times.

I snort-laughed very loudly at that. Poor Oliver, such an idiot.

 

 

Mixed feelings about this ep, but generally more optimistic bc overall, I found it much easier to watch than last week's, which required liberal use of the fast forward button. 

 

The beats that were hit in the Oliver/Felicity dynamic were expected and unsurprising... and this show used to surprise me. It did seem out of character for Felicity to not be more wary about the name change with Oliver, but then at the same time, over the last few eps, he's been terse and rather curt with her, and telling her to get her head in the game. So maybe she's trying to distance herself from any sort of friendship as well as the failed potential romantic relationship. But again, I shouldn't have to justify or talk out these leaps in logic. The show needs to be better at capturing the nuances of Team Arrow and its interactions if it wants to be compelling television.

 

That said, I was really most upset by Diggle tonight, and his talk with Felicity. This is the first Diggle and Felicity scene we get all season, and it's about Oliver's headspace? Felicity is not responsible for Oliver's actions or his decisions. The idea that the show thinks Diggle is in the right here frustrates me to no end, because every time we've seen them together, Felicity and Diggle are each other's person. They have a great bond and they prioritize and protect one another (when she yells at Oliver for being oblivious to Diggle's breakup with Carly, when Diggle camps outside her place). So we finally have a scene where these two talk to one another, and what do we get? Them talking about Oliver. There is more to their friendship than Oliver and his pain. I want to know how Felicity is feeling about her job and how the rest of the visit with her mother went, how Diggle is feeling about fatherhood and his trepidation about ARGUS and Lyla's work, what they think about the team additions. Why can't we know these characters better? Why do we get countless storylines and scenes about the origin and evolution of countless more masked characters when they're the least interesting? 

popgoesculture for the win. Liking your post is not enough, this is exactly how I feel. I'll just add that at least because the actress playing Cupid had fun, I had fun through her.

Also, I always said: Felicity is more important to me than Olicity. Since they seem unable to portray her as healthy and true to herself in a relationship, just have them go back to being friends. I am now dreading to see her going forward because if she acts like this wrt Ray, I will believe some shapeshifter kidnapped her. It's like she's transferring everything she likes about Oliver onto Ray. The turn around is too quick. While the acting from EBR was convincing, I was like "Meh, Oliver Queen does it better". ETA: also just realised that it has been like less than a month in Arrow time. Too fast. This is making me sad. The only reason why I watched tonight's episode is because I was procrastinating and I really wasn't eager to watch it. It did surpass my expectations but I'm sad that I am so meh about the show. It's weird. 

 

PS: attention to all male douchebags out there, being an asshole is not cute. Never has been, never is, never will be. I wanted to punch him in the face. I hate him. He is not even cute. Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I am sorry, I have feelings and they say unless you f***ing look like Chris Hemsworth (finally an SMA I agree with), you do not get to assume a woman finds you hot. You just don't.

Edited November 20, 2014 by fantique

[Shanna]

And it unfortunately makes Felicity appear insensitive when you put scenes of her flirting/kissing a guy that buys her nice clothes and jewelry next to a scene with Oliver being all sensitive and wearing his heart on his sleeve with Diggle after he defeated a criminal, going on about how much he loves her and it's tearing him apart.

But he said that to Diggle, not felicity! What he said to felicity was that he would not be with her. She told him weeks ago that she wasn't going to sit around. She told Diggle that Oliver needed to talk to her if he change his mind. I think Felicitys point on this was supported and I felt for both of them.

I do agree the show was clunky at times but I still enjoyed it better than some of the recent episodes.

[Actionmage]

I want to know how Felicity is feeling about her job and how the rest of the visit with her mother went, how Diggle is feeling about fatherhood and his trepidation about ARGUS and Lyla's work, what they think about the team additions. Why can't we know these characters better?

 

This!^ Why not have John have more than a sentence or two of small talk then go in on the Oliver's feelings thing? Why did Felicity have to explain things to Dig? He knows how these two folks feel about each other! Before they really did. So, bad writers!  No biscuit.

 

Surprised they didn't double up and have Roy see the Thea/DJ kiss.

 

Thank the higher power for that! Roy seems to be better able to deal with Thea moving on though, so it would probably not be "exciting".

I am not understanding how someone can hate two single guys eating a meal with a married couple that invited them over.  Lyla extended the invite through John and was obviously okay with Roy as a fourth.  Being that angry over a friendly meal seems a bit outsized.

 

Not to speak for the original poster, but my issue with it at least was that the rest of them were getting this awesome bonding friend moment and Felicity didn't get to be a part of it. She's as much part of the team as the rest of them and also could use a lighter moment like that in her life with all the heavy stuff they do. But she's isolated from her friends and her team to have dinner with a guy that had done some things that I thought was weird to get her to go to this dinner. As somebody who really enjoys the Team Arrow dynamics, it would have been nice to see all of them together in a happier setting.

 

The thing is, it happened in the same night. Felicity, while a Team Arrow founder, has to make a living. That part of her day job involves work dinners with fancy people she isn't used to dealing with ( and awesomely holding her own and juggling TA duties, presumably in the loo or the kitchen) is to be dealt with.

 

Dinner with the Gardners.

Team Arrow dealing with Cupid.

End of dealing with Cupid, Felicity is in the cave, hears Oliver talking about having to be alone.

Felicity- wearing a borrowed, $10M diamond necklace!- goes back to work because $10M diamond necklace! And to say good-bye to the also borrowed dress.

Oliver comes back, ices his thumb, gets the Lyla supper invite, heads out to Felicity's VP office.

Oliver sees that Kiss, turns on his heel and is out.

Oliver returns to the cave and slaps stuff off a table. Roy asks if he's okay. Oliver asks if Roy's okay. Since they aren't they...

Knock on the door to John and Lyla's place for a late supper.

 

There probably was bonding. There was probably also some light teasing. Yes, Felicity could have been there, but it isn't on her. Lyla, John and Oliver could have reached out. We were left believing that she wasn't. Mainly because Oliver's feelings are hurt. 

 

As a person wanting more Felicity and Lyla interaction, yes, Felicity hanging with everyone would've been wonderful.

 

The word "hate" is' the volume goes to eleven', imo. That one meal without Felicity is hate-able just doesn't compute, for me. If she misses more team time? Sure, I can see it. Felicity has more things going on than Palmer seems to have, so something is going to have to take a backseat periodically. This episode, it was the team, and even then? Not fully abandoned.

 

This is obviously, a mileage varies situation.

[El Seed]

Ray just doesn't bother me. He is here to move the story along. I'm fine with it. Felicity said the dress was a loaner and so was the necklace. She was fine with him kissing her and giving her those things, therefore I am okay with it. I'm just not going to get upset about a plot device relationship that gave me more story growth with the two people I care about then I have gotten since the premiere.

I continue to sympathize with both Oliver and Felicity's points of view.

 

That's how I feel too. I can't get angry over a rebound relationship. I'm really not old enough to use the phrase "back in my day," but...back in my day rebound relationships were a pretty common thing after a guy broke your heart. And Ray is a plot device to make Oliver move. If there were no options for Felicity to move on to, there would be no motivation for Oliver to make a move, as he'd still have her around all the time, but without the responsibilites or consequences of a real relationship.

 

I do think they are developing this ray/felicity thing too quickly, but they don't seem all that fond of pacing in general. If there had been a few more episodes showing felicity getting more interested in her job in general I would have preferred it.

 

 

Arrow eats through plot faster than pretty much any other show I've watched. Sometimes it's a good thing, other times I wish the show would slow the fuck down so characters can have enough time to breath with everything that happens.

 

The thing is, it happened in the same night. Felicity, while a Team Arrow founder, has to make a living. That part of her day job involves work dinners with fancy people she isn't used to dealing with ( and awesomely holding her own and juggling TA duties, presumably in the loo or the kitchen) is to be dealt with.

 

Dinner with the Gardners.

Team Arrow dealing with Cupid.

End of dealing with Cupid, Felicity is in the cave, hears Oliver talking about having to be alone.

Felicity- wearing a borrowed, $10M diamond necklace!- goes back to work because $10M diamond necklace! And to say good-bye to the also borrowed dress.

Oliver comes back, ices his thumb, gets the Lyla supper invite, heads out to Felicity's VP office.

Oliver sees that Kiss, turns on his heel and is out.

Oliver returns to the cave and slaps stuff off a table. Roy asks if he's okay. Oliver asks if Roy's okay. Since they aren't they...

Knock on the door to John and Lyla's place for a late supper.

 

There probably was bonding. There was probably also some light teasing. Yes, Felicity could have been there, but it isn't on her. Lyla, John and Oliver could have reached out. We were left believing that she wasn't. Mainly because Oliver's feelings are hurt.

 

As a person wanting more Felicity and Lyla interaction, yes, Felicity hanging with everyone would've been wonderful.

 

The word "hate" is' the volume goes to eleven', imo. That one meal without Felicity is hate-able just doesn't compute, for me. If she misses more team time? Sure, I can see it. Felicity has more things going on than Palmer seems to have, so something is going to have to take a backseat periodically. This episode, it was the team, and even then? Not fully abandoned.

 

 

This. All of this.

[statsgirl]

I mean that she hasn't been on the outside looking in as far as the team is concerned. If she does feel like that's her home and she feels like she's losing it, maybe that will force her to rethink some things.

What does she need to rethink?  She's still committed to the team and the cause.  The only decision she's made are to a) go back to a job she trained for instead of sales at Tech Village; and b) not sit around waiting for Oliver to decided if he wants to be with her.

 

I can't see anything wrong with the first and I know you supported her in the second.  So why is she being punished by being separated from her Team?

 

 

There probably was bonding. There was probably also some light teasing. Yes, Felicity could have been there, but it isn't on her. Lyla, John and Oliver could have reached out. We were left believing that she wasn't. Mainly because Oliver's feelings are hurt. 

 

Yes.  If Diggle is so keen on getting her and Oliver to make up, why didn't he invite her over for drinks after dinner?

[apinknightmare]

As much as I hate this Ray relationship and think it unintentionally problematic as all hell, we did just learn that Felicity is terminally single (during that fight with her mom), and her heart is broken because for a few glorious hours she thought she was finally going to get to share her life with Oliver, a guy she's loved and cared about and fought for and fought with for two years now. And then he backed away in the worst way possible, not by telling her that he didn't love her, but that he does but he can't be with her. She's just kind of flying blind and trying to get through it and majorly projecting her feelings for Oliver onto Ray, because he's an emotionally available version of the guy she really loves. He's wooing her and she's probably never been wooed before, so she's getting kind of swept up in being appreciated and wanted in a way that she never has before. She's getting everything she wanted career-wise, and she's trying to see if there's something out there for her heart. She was a little out of character tonight, but I think that's okay for where she is right now. Her whole life has been Oliver for the past two years - I think it's only natural that she might unintentionally be a little insensitive (like not telling him that Ray was renaming Queen Consolidated) while she tries to focus on herself for a bit.

[TwistedandBored]

The writers were doing everything to make Oliver the sympathetic one in this whole Olicity thing but I don't care. He made his bed, now he should lie on it.

 

Felicity has the right to move on and it's been like 2 months since she has been working for Ray according the show. Things change. Felicity's feeling for Ray might have change. All I know is that she is a VP of the company and life is good for her. It is not her fault if Oliver is having trouble with his. Nor should she blame for it. JMO! 

 

 

With that said, I didn't care for the episode. Looked like another TOD episode. 

[Tangerine]

But he said that to Diggle, not felicity! What he said to felicity was that he would not be with her. She told him weeks ago that she wasn't going to sit around. She told Diggle that Oliver needed to talk to her if he change his mind. I think Felicitys point on this was supported and I felt for both of them.

 

Oh absolutely, you're right. And I'm not saying I think Felicity is being insensitive. I mean from a storytelling perspective and for viewers who DO see both scenes side by side, I can't help but question what the writer's intentions are when it comes to Felicity's characterization. Because I don't trust them and this season has been far too traumatizing already.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tangerine

[apinknightmare]

What does she need to rethink?  She's still committed to the team and the cause.  The only decision she's made are to a) go back to a job she trained for instead of sales at Tech Village; and b) not sit around waiting for Oliver to decided if he wants to be with her.

 

I can't see anything wrong with the first and I know you supported her in the second.  So why is she being punished by being separated from her Team?

 

EBR herself said that Felicity was going to struggle with her two lives. I feel like her work life (and probably her relationship with Ray) is going to drag her away from her Arrow activities. Tonight it was her needing the night off so she could go to dinner with Ray, next week, who knows? And that's good, that's okay. She's doing her best to be there and be present for both of her jobs, but something's going to have to give eventually. THAT'S what I think she's going to have to rethink - how committed she wants to continue to be to each of those things. Like I posted earlier, she's going to have to find a balance. And maybe she's going to miss out on some stuff and feel left out and need to reprioritize before she finds that balance.

Edited November 20, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Actionmage]

Just as Oliver's journey this season is about him finding a way to be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow - or coming to the realization he is both,

 

As I read this, I so wanted Oliver to catch the "We Are Both" speech Prince Charming gave on Once Upon A Time a couple of seasons back!

[Guest]

I didn't like Felicity at all either and she was the reason I got into this show.

 

It makes me wonder if they are deliberately destroying her so that Laurel doesn't look so bad.

 

I actually cringed at her behavior. Accepting a date because of a dress is one thing (I can hand wave that she's into fashion, whatever) but having no reaction to the renaming of QC and then her 'Ray is inspiring' speech made me like WTF is happening. 

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was their intention. After the EP's killed Sara to make Laurel relevant because comics, I have no faith that they won't destroy everything else in their path to comic endgame. I was trying to be positive and I've always believed Ray is just a foil for Oliver/Olicity in the long run but now I'm not feeling so sure. I'm going to see if I still feel the same way after 309. 

 

 

Yes, pretty much this. And it unfortunately makes Felicity appear insensitive when you put scenes of her flirting/kissing a guy that buys her nice clothes and jewelry next to a scene with Oliver being all sensitive and wearing his heart on his sleeve with Diggle after he defeated a criminal, going on about how much he loves her and it's tearing him apart. Again: Oliver is being an emotionally stunted idiot and needs to grow the heck up, but the contrast is pretty stark that you wonder what exactly the writers are trying to convey here. They obviously do want us to be on Oliver's side in all of this, even though Felicity has a completely valid reason for wanting to move on with her life, but it's also making her look shallow, which is not in character for her .

 

The thing is, it's really not insensitive of Felicity to move on or at least try to after Oliver said he couldn't be with her. And he hasn't just said it once, he's said it twice now. And at the start when she approached Oliver and asked for the night off, it seemed like she was giving him an opening to say something and he didn't. He told her to do whatever she wanted. So I really don't blame Felicity for trying to move on, it's just who she's moving on with. Ray is my problem here and the way Felicity acts around Ray is my problem too. This was not the Felicity I know and love and yeah, I hate to say it but she did look kind of shallow. I don't think she is but that is how it looks and I think the EP's/writers really need to be careful. They're writing for plot here at the sacrifice of character.

[olicityfan25]

I really liked this episode. Felicity was a little OOC but, so was Diggle.

 

I think they were trying to do a reverse. Do you remember when Felicity went to Diggle's place to tell him to come back and square things off with Oliver?

Diggle told her if Oliver wants me back he should come tell me himself. So it's another one of those situations where they switch sides. It all comes down to what Oliver wants. Felicity was right in her office. If Oliver really wants to fight for her then he shouldn't say things like repeating "I can't be with you" over and over. That's a hurts a person. 

 

Look Ray is creepy. But, I like Brandon Routh and it is true that Ray is trying to help the city. I'm sure the Palmer Industries or whatever will once again be named QC so it's not that big of a deal. I did think Felicity should've told Oliver it was being renamed though.

 

The kiss was intense. If you look at it without knowing about Olicity in the show you can see that Ray does really like her. But, to me Felicity will always love Oliver. All in all I like the core trio. I did like Roy. No mention/appearance by you know who always makes the show better for me. I loved Cupid! That was a great idea to add her to the cast.

Edited November 20, 2014 by olicityfan25

[Chaser]

I don't know about this episode. I agree that Felicity seemed off. The only time she seemed herself was when she was in The Foundry (which is probably the point of the season, but still). I don't understand why she didn't have a reaction to Palmer renaming the company. I get that Oliver gave up on the company, but I would have liked to see her sad about it or something. I kinda felt she was trying to push Oliver by mentioning the date, maybe testing the waters. And Oliver totally drowned in those waters with the speech to Cupid. Felicity fell victim to plotting. Plan and simple.

 

Ray is just..UGH. I like BR. When he tones it down (like at dinner when he wasn't talking) I'm okay with him. But the whole relationship with Felicity is stupid. The big support speech at the dinner seemed way too personal. And the kiss was so telegraphed with the reboundness and yet it still came out of no where. 

 

I liked Cupid. She was crazy and I loved that. I liked no Laurel.

 

The club returning and the drama with Olicity reminded me of One Tree Hill and I hated that. I hated that Oliver and Roy had dinner with Lyla and Diggle and Felicity was alone at the office. I didn't like Diggle just popping up to give relationship advice. I'm sad we didn't get a call back to Felicity's 'lovers' comment. 

 

Did like Oliver being jealous though. It's swallow but still. I liked that the florist shop tied to Black Canary was inhibited by toxic love. Subtle writers.

[Tangerine]

The thing is, it's really not insensitive of Felicity to move on or at least try to after Oliver said he couldn't be with her. And he hasn't just said it once, he's said it twice now. And at the start when she approached Oliver and asked for the night off, it seemed like she was giving him an opening to say something and he didn't. He told her to do whatever she wanted. So I really don't blame Felicity for trying to move on, it's just who she's moving on with. Ray is my problem here and the way Felicity acts around Ray is my problem too. This was not the Felicity I know and love and yeah, I hate to say it but she did look kind of shallow. I don't think she is but that is how it looks and I think the EP's/writers really need to be careful. They're writing for plot here at the sacrifice of character.

 

Basically, it's not that the "why" she's moving on that's the problem, it's the "how" and the "who." And maybe it IS supposed to raise red flags and be uncomfortable and problematic. But again, they're doing it the expense of a beloved character and making a new character that they supposedly have a cool plan for appear creepy.

 

Usually when we have an obsessive stalker storyline, the hero's love interest will get damseled and I'm so glad that they didn't go this route. I actually found it kind of funny that Roy was the closest they came to damseling.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tangerine

[ban1o]

I didn't like how Oliver acted in this episode tbh. He doesn't own felicity and it makes no sense why he can't "have"her. Although the Ray-Felicity stuff was a bit strange I don't mind how Felicity acted. 

[wonderwall]

Reviews/comments about this episode are so mixed that I don't even know if I should watch it or not :p I don't think my heart could take an out of character Felicity... She's literally the reason why I started watching the show again. 

 

Also, Ray/Felicity... Saw a gif of the kiss. It looked awkward as hell and I really don't see anything romantic between them. It just feels forced. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

Oh absolutely, you're right. And I'm not saying I think Felicity is being insensitive. I mean from a storytelling perspective and for viewers who DO see both scenes side by side, I can't help but question what the writer's intentions are when it comes to Felicity's characterization. Because I don't trust them and this season has been far too traumatizing already.

 

We're still supposed to be sympathizing with both of them, and I do. Oliver for obvious reasons (and he did make huge personal strides this ep), and Felicity too. If we weren't supposed to be sympathetic with Felicity, we wouldn't have had her telling Oliver about the "work" date and her giving him an opportunity to object (which he didn't), and him telling her through Cupid that he had to be alone and couldn't be with her even though he loved her. They basically hammered it home twice (once in a brutal way) before she kissed Ray.

[ban1o]

The lack of this, and the fact that Roy maturely accepted Thea's decision to move on with her life has officially made theirs the most mature relationship on this show.

Strangely enough this is actually true haha 

[quarks]

I had a horrible day today, which is not the best way to start Arrow since you know the show is going to end angsty or dead which is not going to improve your mood, and sure enough, this week we had both.  So although I liked lots of this episode, and thought it was a major improvement over last week's snoozefest, I'm not the best judge of it.

 

Good things: 

 

1. Boomerang guy!  I assume this is the Captain Boomerang people have been talking about? In his 30 seconds he was my favorite part of the episode.

 

2. Cupid. I've been complaining about the villains of the week, so it was good to get back to a nice, over the top demented villain again.  Not entirely convinced that she's mentally stable enough even for the Suicide Squad, but at this point I'm resigned to Amanda Waller being wrong about everything.  

 

Especially loved the cupcake bit. Hee.

 

3. Also, the strung up mob boss. "Never thought I'd be glad to see you!" ARROW. "GULP!"

 

4. Oliver realizing that what he and Roy both needed was the quiet support of friends. You are growing, Oliver. Slowly, but growing.

 

5. Oliver also saying that he realized Felicity had the right to move on even if he wasn't happy about it.

 

6. The fern made it! YAY!

 

7. I want one of those pink drinks Cupid was having. I don't know what it was, but I want it.

 

8. Felicity correctly telling Diggle that Oliver needed to tell her all this, not Diggle.

 

9. The Atom suit! I don't know what it's doing but it's a cool hologram so yay.

 

10. The therapist telling Oliver he needed therapy. Therapist I have no idea who you are, but you called it. Completely.

 

11. Katana slicing everybody up. I frankly wasn't paying enough attention during those scenes to know what was going on apart from Amanda Waller sucking yet again but Katana was fun to watch. 

 

Questionable Things:

 

1. The timing of the entire date/capturing Cupid/kiss/ending up at Dig's place for dinner. It only works if Felicity is back in her office at 2 am and both Ray and Oliver expect her to be there, which...show! She has an apartment! We've even seen her in it! Let her sleep after all that!

 

2. I don't mind that Ray rebranded Queen Consolidated into Palmer Technologies. It makes sense and is arguably the first sensible thing anyone has done for QC in several episodes.  I do mind that Felicity apparently didn't bother to give Oliver a heads up about this, and looked thrilled, since both of these imply a major and still ongoing level of anger at Oliver that yes, was around in episode two, but completely not there in episodes five and six - not incidentally, the last two episodes, where they've regained a decent working relationship and Oliver is right up in her personal space again. It felt really off.  Unless she was angry that Oliver didn't respond to her "Are you ok with that?" Especially since he obviously wasn't, but also obviously wasn't saying so. 

 

3. Out of pure curiosity, is there any chance that we could get Diggle his own storyline in the next few episodes? I know we sorta had it back in episode 3, but let's try that idea again.

 

Bad Things:

 

1. The entire subplot of Thea and the DJ. A, I hate the DJ.  B, Even with Cupid having a drink, this felt like it belonged on another show. C, I hate the DJ.  D, In a show where I was already dealing with Ray and trying to handwave Felicity's reaction as her having terrible taste in men and also recovering from the recent deal with her ex-boyfriend and Oliver still not being honest with her about his feelings, yet ANOTHER man running roughshod over a woman, and this time, without even the nice jewelry and the pretty dress.  Did I mention that I hate the DJ?  Kudos, kid, it took you 30 seconds to leap to the top of my most disliked characters on this show, beating out Amanda Waller and, yes, Laurel, hands down.

 

2. Felicity/Ray. I get that this show has often rushed relationships, but as others have already noted, in episodes one and two, Felicity was accusing Ray of stalking her, and making it clear that she found his actions inappropriate. In episode five, she looked irritated that he showed up at her doorstep before coffee, when she was in her pjs. And now, two episodes later, she's kissing him - after he's renamed her friend's company after himself, given her an expensive dress and loaned her an expensive necklace.  Not to mention the slight problem that he's secretly building supersuits in his office, which, ok, Felicity is in no position to complain about, but basically adds another sleazy layer to this. 

 

I get that this is a temporary relationship, show, and you don't really want us to cheer for it, but perhaps putting a touch more effort to it might make me wonder a bit more about who Felicity will end up with.  Just a suggestion.

 

3. Oliver walking right into the kiss. Sigh. I know, I know, it's a television/movie staple: the girl/guy finally realizes the TRUE FEELINGS and gets ready to say something and then walks in on that.

 

But here's the thing: Arrow has generally successfully played with, if not avoided, television cliches before: the entire reason the season two finale worked was that it played with the whole cliche of the hero saying "I love you" right after marching into the pit of doom.  The show also had fun playing with the love interest not knowing cliche by having her boyfriend find out first - something that really pumped up the end of the first season even if it all ended badly.

 

So having the show resort to this cliche....grumble.  Arrow, you are better than this. 

 

And now Laurel!

 

She wasn't in this episode! Makes this post much shorter than usual! Ok, somewhat shorter than usual.

Edited November 20, 2014 by quarks

[benteen]

I don't get what Thea sees in the DJ.  Old Thea might have let the DJ kiss her but a Merlyn-trained Thea?  Just don't see that.  This storyline is ill-advised for many reasons.

 

I think Brandon Routh is doing a terrific job but I totally agree they've rushed his relationship with Felicity and things have developed too fast.  From stalker to boss to love interest.  I'm mixed on the whole thing...I'd rather see Felicity be the one to show more initiative. 

 

Although the most OOC moment for me is seeing her smiling and clapping when Ray announced he was changing the name of Oliver's company.  I know Oliver is an asshat who has been a pain in the ass to her but at least look a little conflicted there.

[Guest]

Reviews/comments about this episode are so mixed that I don't even know if I should watch it or not :p I don't think my heart could take an out of character Felicity... She's literally the reason why I started watching the show again. 

 

Also, Ray/Felicity... Saw a gif of the kiss. It looked awkward as hell and I really don't see anything romantic between them. It just feels forced. 

 

I think you should watch it but just be prepared. Cupid was really good. They totally should have cast AG as Laurel. Sorry not sorry.

 

And yes, the kiss was really awkward, especially from the angle where Oliver saw it. It only happened for that reason too. Smells like contrived angst. 

[apinknightmare]

I think you should watch it but just be prepared. Cupid was really good. They totally should have cast AG as Laurel. Sorry not sorry.

 

And yes, the kiss was really awkward, especially from the angle where Oliver saw it. It only happened for that reason too. Smells like contrived angst. 

 

I'm glad they went the contrived angst route where Felicity doesn't know he saw so she didn't have to do something stupid like explain herself.

[statsgirl]

7. I want one of those pink drinks Cupid was having. I don't know what it was, but I want it.

I think Thea called it a "something Kiss".

 

Remember when Felicity talked about her abandonment issues and how she couldn't lose Oliver too because it would hurt too much?

EBR herself said that Felicity was going to struggle with her two lives. I feel like her work life (and probably her relationship with Ray) is going to drag her away from her Arrow activities. Tonight it was her needing the night off so she could go to dinner with Ray, next week, who knows? And that's good, that's okay. She's doing her best to be there and be present for both of her jobs, but something's going to have to give eventually. THAT'S what I think she's going to have to rethink - how committed she wants to continue to be to each of those things. Like I posted earlier, she's going to have to find a balance. And maybe she's going to miss out on some stuff and feel left out and need to reprioritize before she finds that balance.

What choice does Felicity have other than the one she's making?  There is nothing to re-prioritize unless she loses something essential to her life.

 

She's been trying to juggle the two jobs since she started to work for Ray instead of doing low level sales work.  She's committed to Oliver and the cause but he doesn't pay her and she's got to live somehow.  She's been trying her hardest to make it work.

 

But if she can't, either she gives up being a vice-president at the company (whatever it's called) and doing work that she loves doing, or she gives up on Team Arrow and the family she's finally found and loves.

 

Diggle gets to have both family and crusade; Oliver gets to be able to decide that he's going to be able to be both Oliver Queen and The Arrow, but Felicity has to give up either her work or her friend/family because she the one person who can't have both unless Oliver chooses her.  What do these writers have against women?

Edited November 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[patchwork]

What I didn't like about Diggle's chat with Felicity is that he seemed to be trying to emotionally blackmail her into not going out with Ray because of how Oliver feels about it. I'm find Ray/Felicity problematic as hell but she's right to try and move on and I don't like the implication that she should hang around indefinitely hoping Oliver changes his mind.  To be blunt who cares if Oliver's hurting he brought it on himself.

 

Why couldn't that scene been about Diggle checking in with his friend Felicity making sure she's not rushing into something she'll regret?

 

I liked Cupid, I liked Oliver's interaction with her, I even liked that Felicity heard the reiteration of how Oliver can't be with anyone right now or possibly ever but the problematic romance tropes were out in force tonight. 

[benteen]

I noticed the Hong Kong flashbacks haven't really been discussed.  I thought they were better this week and I'm a fan of Rila Fukushima from The Wolverine.  But how long until we learn that Oliver the man slut had an affair with Tatsu and how many episodes until we see her being fridged?  After all, at least one person has to be sacrificed to the shrine of Oliver's manpain.

Edited November 20, 2014 by benteen

[MsSchadenfreude]

I enjoyed the episode with the exception of Thea's new DJ man. Dude, you ain't all that…not even close.  I didn't find anyone was really acting out of character.  Plus, I think the idea that Ray somehow bought Felicity in this episode is nonsense.  

 

Carrie Cutter, you're batshit crazy, but I'd still take you as Black Canary over Laurel…just saying.  Also, I think you will fit in to the Suicide Squad nicely. If you're lucky maybe they will let you room with Harley Quinn and you two can have batshit crazy-offs while Bronze Tiger and Deadshot roll their eyes, but are secretly turn on by the crazy.

 

So Ray Palmer buys a company and wants to rename it after himself…the horror!  Oliver washed his hands of QC weeks ago so I'm not buying that Felicity is being a bad friend because she isn't scolding Ray for changing the name. QC doesn't have the best reputation and a lot of that is because Oliver was a crappy CEO, frankly I'm surprised the board didn't change the name months ago. 

 

Diggle, I love that you tried to talk some sense into Oliver.  And while I know what you were trying to do in your chat with Felicity, if Oliver has something to say, he needs to say it himself.  

 

Gosh, Felicity is so insensitive. I mean first she told Oliver she has a work date with Ray and he responded by snarking that "she should do whatever she wanted"  Then after Felicity walked out on said work dinner to help Oliver, she got to hear him say yet again that he could never be with her because he had to be alone forever. I mean why is she even thinking of trying to move on with that kind of encouragement from Oliver.

 

Even though his angst is totally of his own making, I do still feel bad for Oliver because it hurts when you see someone you love with someone else regardless of the reason.  

 

Loved the final scene of Roy and Oliver showing up at Dig's place for dinner.

 

I liked the Hong King flashbacks.  Tatsu was kickass and I always like Maseo.

 

Best moment of the night goes to Crazy Carrie's therapist.  "What's makes you think I need therapy?"  "You mean besides the mask and dressing up like Robin Hood"  Bwahahahaha! Finally someone speaks the truth.  Oliver, I love you, but you have enough issues for multiple therapists.

 

Hey guess what, it's been six episodes since Sara's untimely demise and Quentin still doesn't know she's dead.

 

 

ETA: also just realised that it has been like less than a month in Arrow time. Too fast.

 

  Felicity/Ray is too fast, but in even less time Lyla gave birth and is not only already back to work, but she is going on covert ops in foreign countries.  This is the show where gunshots wounds heal overnight, so I think time is relative on Arrow.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MsSchadenfreude

[ban1o]

I noticed the Hong Kong flashbacks haven't really been discussed.  I thought they were better this week and I'm a fan of Rila Fukushima from The Wolverine.  But how long until we learn that Oliver the man slut had an affair with Tatsu and how many episodes until we see her being fridged?

Yeah I actually liked the Hong Kong flashbacks somewhat. which is saying a lot because I haven't really liked them. But I really feel Oliver is going to sleep with Tatsu. That's what they seem to building towards. Tatsu won't be fridged though I think. She's Katana. Her husband will probably die though. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by ban1o

[Tangerine]

I'm glad they went the contrived angst route where Felicity doesn't know he saw so she didn't have to do something stupid like explain herself.

"Explain to me why you were kissing a guy, even though I came here to tell you that I wanted to be with you, after telling you multiple times that I couldn't be with you, even though you couldn't have possibly known that's why I came here because you're not a mind reader" is my absolute favourite source of conflict on TV shows. Absolute. Favourite.

 

I think Thea called it a "something Kiss".

 

I thought it was Cupid's kiss? Cute, show. Cute.

 

They totally should have cast AG as Laurel. Sorry not sorry.

 

With you there.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tangerine

[quarks]

I was trying to be positive and I've always believed Ray is just a foil for Oliver/Olicity in the long run but now I'm not feeling so sure.

 

 

Heh. I had the exact opposite reaction: the entire Oliver decides that he will finally say something but ends up seeing Ray/Felicity kiss was so pulled from various sitcoms and dramas that I was like, yep, Oliver/Felicity will end up together at the end of the season, if not earlier, given Arrow's rapid pace. 

[apinknightmare]

Remember when Felicity talked about her abandonment issues and how she couldn't lose Oliver too because it would hurt too much?

What choice does Felicity have other than the one she's making?  There is nothing to re-prioritize unless she loses something essential to her life.

 

Hey, I'm not the one who said Felicity was going to struggle with her two lives - EBR said that. I'm just speculating as to what kinds of consequences that has and how it plays out.

I was trying to be positive and I've always believed Ray is just a foil for Oliver/Olicity in the long run but now I'm not feeling so sure. I'm going to see if I still feel the same way after 309. 

 

Oh, he's totally short term, and they're not even trying to be subtle about it. He owns Oliver's company, he's trying to save the city like Oliver does, he does the salmon ladder like Oliver does, he even takes Felicity to the same restaurant Oliver did for their first "date." Felicity's talking about Ray when she's trying to convince the businessman across the table as to why he should sell Ray his whatever...It's anvil city, baby.

[El Seed]

3. Oliver walking right into the kiss. Sigh. I know, I know, it's a television/movie staple: the girl/guy finally realizes the TRUE FEELINGS and gets ready to say something and then walks in on that.

 

But here's the thing: Arrow has generally successfully played with, if not avoided, television cliches before: the entire reason the season two finale worked was that it played with the whole cliche of the hero saying "I love you" right after marching into the pit of doom. The show also had fun playing with the love interest not knowing cliche by having her boyfriend find out first - something that really pumped up the end of the first season even if it all ended badly.

 

So having the show resort to this cliche....grumble. Arrow, you are better than this.

 

Karma for Oliver sleeping with Laurel after telling Tommy to get back with her, and Tommy seeing them hook up from the street.

 

But how long until we learn that Oliver the man slut had an affair with Tatsu and how many episodes until we see her being fridged?

 

 

I'm iffy on whether or not bad hair!Oliver had an affair with Tatsu (if only because I adore her verbally smacking him around), but I'd wager that her husband Maseo gets the fridging treatment. To be fair, I say that partially because I want to see her lay waste to people.

 

I enjoyed the episode with the exception of Thea's new DJ man. Dude, you ain't all that…not even close. I didn't find anyone was really acting out of character. Plus, I think the idea that Ray somehow bought Felicity in this episode is nonsense.

 

Carrie Cutter, you're batshit crazy, but I'd still take you as Black Canary over Laurel…just saying. Also, I think you will fit in to the Suicide Squad nicely. If you're lucky maybe they will let you room with Harley Quinn and you two can have batshit crazy-offs while Bronze Tiger and Deadshot roll their eyes, but are secretly turn on by the crazy.

 

So Ray Palmer buys a company and wants to rename it after himself…the horror! Oliver washed his hands of QC weeks ago so I'm not buying that Felicity is being a bad friend because she isn't scolding Ray for changing the name. QC doesn't have the best reputation and a lot of that is because Oliver was a crappy CEO, frankly I'm surprised the board didn't change the name months ago.

 

Diggle, I love that you tried to talk some sense into Oliver. And while I know what you were trying to do in your chat with Felicity, if Oliver has something to say, he needs to say it himself.

 

Gosh, Felicity is so insensitive. I mean first she told Oliver she has a work date with Ray and he responded by snarking that "she should do whatever she wanted" Then after Felicity walked out on said work dinner to help Oliver, she got to hear him say yet again that he could never be with her because he had to be alone forever. I mean why is she even thinking of trying to move on with that kind of encouragement from Oliver.

 

Even though his angst is totally of his own making, I do still feel bad for Oliver because it hurts when you see someone you love with someone else regardless of the reason.

 

Loved the final scene of Roy and Oliver showing up at Dig's place for dinner.

 

I liked the Hong King flashbacks. Tatsu was kickass and I always like Maseo.

 

Best moment of the night goes to Crazy Carrie's therapist. "What's makes you think I need therapy?" "You mean besides the mask and dressing up like Robin Hood" Bwahahahaha! Finally someone speaks the truth. Oliver, I love you, but you have enough issues for multiple therapists.

 

Hey guess what, it's been six episodes since Sara's untimely demise and Quentin still doesn't know she's dead.

 

 

 

Agree with all of this. Co-signing.

[catrox14]

Welp, at least Oliver's outburst wasn't JUST because he saw Felicity kissing Ray. I'm pretty sure it's because he decided to go see her and tell her how he feels about her and then once he saw her with Ray he was frustrated because he knows he blew it. :(.

 

I really really really really wish Nick Tarabay had been cast as Ra's al Ghul. I just love him and he has so much screen presence. 

 

Amy Gumenick was just as great as I thought she would be.  '

 

The Ray/Felicity stuff does not intrigue me.  They have no chemistry IMO . I do not know who this particular person named Felicity Smoak is right now.  

 

My head!canon is that her mother's visit messed with her head.

 

I loved Diggle playing Cupid between Oliver and Felicity. He always knows whats up.  And I loved Oliver and Roy going to Lyla and Diggle's house. 

 

Overall though I came away feeling meh more than YAY, but not as bad as bleh.

[Guest]

Oh, he's totally short term, and they're not even trying to be subtle about it. He owns Oliver's company, he's trying to save the city like Oliver does, he does the salmon ladder like Oliver does, he even takes Felicity to the same restaurant Oliver did for their first "date." Felicity's talking about Ray when she's trying to convince the businessman across the table as to why he should sell Ray his whatever...It's anvil city, baby.

 

See, logically I know you're right. I know Ray is a foil. I've always thought it even though I dislike Ray immensely. I knew he was a means to an end. He's a giant walking plot point, sadly. But I just don't trust these writers, especially with the way Felicity reacted tonight. I honestly wouldn't have much of a problem if she hadn't been so 'Ray is so wonderful' all of a sudden. The jump is too much for me. And what with the way everything is being written around a plot to make Laurel BC, I have zero faith right now. But as I said, I'm gonna hold on and see how the big Olicity scene plays out in 309. I think that will either make me feel better or worse!

[apinknightmare]

See, logically I know you're right. I know Ray is a foil. I've always thought it even though I dislike Ray immensely. I knew he was a means to an end. He's a giant walking plot point, sadly. But I just don't trust these writers, especially with the way Felicity reacted tonight. I honestly wouldn't have much of a problem if she hadn't been so 'Ray is so wonderful' all of a sudden.

 

I think she's just projecting. He's Oliver without the baggage, and he's right there and is ready to give her the relationship that Oliver won't. I don't think she necessarily thinks Ray's great. She thinks Oliver's great and she sees a lot of Oliver in Ray, so...projection city.

[benteen]

Yeah I actually liked the Hong Kong flashbacks somewhat. which is saying a lot because I haven't really liked them. But I really feel Oliver is going to sleep with Tatsu. That's what they seem to building towards. Tatsu won't be fridged though I think. She's Katana. Her husband will probably die though. 

 

The same Katana from Beware the Bat?