S03.E06: Guilty

[formerlyfreedom]

After a body is found strung up in the Wildcat gym, Ted becomes the main suspect. Oliver and Laurel argue over Ted’s innocence. When Maseo needs Oliver to remember where an informant for China White stashed key information, he asks Tatsu to help jog Oliver’s memory. Roy shares a secret with Felicity.

 

 

[janeta]

I do like Rila Fukushima; I hope this isn't the last we see of her.

[Shanna]

You know it's bad when I wanted them to go back to Oliver in China ( although I'm actually enjoying that more than some folks in general. I think it's because I enjoy the actor playing the guy he's staying with).

I actually liked Ted grant more than I thought ( it helps that he's pretty). Too bad laurel was in all those scenes.

The Roy stuff was mostly pointless but I'm glad they told him about the cop. I think it's weird that they keep having Diggle give Oliver pretty harsh advice.

Oh my god, the end tag was idiotic too. Next week looks idiotic.

[strikera0]

I was watching the episode on a poor quality live stream. Did my mind play tricks on me or did Oliver really use a boxing glove arrow when he was fighting with Ted?

 

I think I liked Ted better in this one. JR's acting still doesn't knock my socks off, but he was better than in previous episodes.

Edited November 13, 2014 by strikera0

[apinknightmare]

That was honestly the worst episode of this show I've ever watched, second only to "The Promise" which was equally terrible but not as boring. And I'm really tired of all of these characters I fell in love with acting OOC and/or stupid because of this murder "mystery." I'm so disappointed.

I was watching the episode on a poor quality live stream. Did my mind play tricks on me or did Oliver really use a boxing glove arrow when he was fighting with Ted?

 

He hit a boxer with a boxing glove arrow, yes.

Edited November 13, 2014 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

He hit a boxer with a boxing glove arrow, yes.

 

Must be the thing everyone's been waiting for since the first episode. I thought about it when I saw that quote but was then distracted by the picture.

 

So...I'm good not watching this live?

[ban1o]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. The fight scenes were really great. And I liked Laurel in this episode. She's becoming stronger and I think Oliver is being a major douche-bag. Why can`t Laurel get training if she wants? He seems extremely controlling and doesn't respect her wishes. And I really liked Roy in this episode and liked the Oliver/Roy bromance presented. Hopefully he doesn't go through major angst though after this.The stuff with Ted Grant and his protege wasn't really that gripping or interesting but I guess it was to draw parallels between Oliver and Roy. I thought this was the last episode he was in though. 

 

Edit: No Malcolm or Thea though but I guess that was necessary. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Must be the thing everyone's been waiting for since the first episode. I thought about it when I saw that quote but was then distracted by the picture.

 

So...I'm good not watching this live?

 

Yeah, you're good.

[Tallis]

Has Dig been body snatched or something? I mean he looks like Dig but so far this season he's advised Oliver to keep lying to Thea and now to abandon Roy?! This is not the Dig we know and love.

On a totally different and shallow note - make up and hair people please note that less is more when it comes to Laurel. With the no makeup look and her hair pulled back she looked stunning.

[Soulfire]

What a BORING episode.

 

Can Oliver stop pulling down his hood when technically still out in public? And Laurel telling Ted her and the Arrow used to date. Smooth, Laurel. Unless your list of ex boyfriends is longer than Paris Hilton's - which we know it's not - it's not that hard to narrow down his identity.

 

Oliver and Laurel still have no chemistry, but bless Amell for trying.

 

ETA: Completely forgot to mention the boxing glove arrow trick. That actually put a big smile on my face.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Soulfire

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

That was honestly the worst episode of this show I've ever watched, second only to "The Promise" which was equally terrible but not as boring. And I'm really tired of all of these characters I fell in love with acting OOC and/or stupid because of this murder "mystery." I'm so disappointed.

 

He hit a boxer with a boxing glove arrow, yes.

It is like they are marking things off a bucket list. I saw so many "wait until Green Arrow uses a boxing glove Arrow" comments on the Facebook page. 

 

check.

 

Really the writers are just checking off their boxes before the show gets canned. It might be a Guiness World Record how many Easter eggs can be shoved into a show in X amount of seasons. Too bad they don't give Emmy's for that achievement.

[Chaser]

I've been watching a couple live blogs on it and some of the comments have me cracking up. 

 

I did not like what everyones is saying about Diggle; please tell me he isn't having some OOC moments...

 

What was the super sweet moment between Oliver and Laurel?

[Jediknight]

We got the boxing glove arrow!  We got the boxing glove arrow!  Thank you for that.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Diggle was totally OOC. And so was Felicity. I can't buy her just letting Roy think he killed Sara like that. She'd be busting her ass trying to figure things out instead of going "Yeah, it all sounds incriminating so dude definitely did it." I can't even think about Dig because it's giving me a headache. No way he would have said what the writers had him say. Just no!

Edited November 13, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[ban1o]

I've been watching a couple live blogs on it and some of the comments have me cracking up. 

 

I did not like what everyones is saying about Diggle; please tell me he isn't having some OOC moments...

 

What was the super sweet moment between Oliver and Laurel?

Yeah Diggle was telling Oliver to cut Roy loose. It was OOC imo. On the reddit live blog everyone was hating on Diggle because of that. I didn't really like that part. 

 

and Oliver told Laurel that he didn't want her being trained by Ted an ex vigilante because he cares about her and then they hug. I personally think he's being a controlling douchebag though. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by ban1o

[Sunshine]

Digg is definitely OOC.

I guess the super sweet moment was the hug and him saying he cares about her.

Oliver is always controlling. It doesn't matter who he is dealing with. Oliver knows best.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. The fight scenes were really great. And  liked Laurel in this episode. She's becoming stronger and I  think Oliver is being a major douchebag though. Why can`t Laurel get training if she wants? HE seems extremely controlling. And I really liked Roy in this episode and liked the Oliver/Roy bromance presented. Hopefully he doesn't go through major angst though after this.The stuff with Ted Grant and his protege wasn't really that gripping but I guess it was to draw parallels between Oliver and Roy. I thought this was the last episode he was in though. 

 

I'm actually really tired of watching Laurel and Oliver at odds with each other, especially since it's over the stupidest things just to CREATE that drama. And I think Oliver's pretty controlling in general, but I do agree with him on this point - she really doesn't understand what she's getting into, and she is going to get herself and others hurt - I get that he thinks Sara wouldn't approve and in a way he's honoring her memory. Seems like he's not going to be a dick about it anymore, and I'm glad because for a second there when they were in the hospital I thought he was going to offer to train her. I guess most of her training is going to be happening off camera now? And as a positive - at least Laurel didn't actively try to murder Roy the hot second he admitted that he thought he killed Sara? I guess I'll count that as an improvement.

 

Not a fan of Diggle wanting Oliver to let Roy loose (that's not good mentoring, dude), although I am a fan of the way Oliver handled the situation with Roy. Overall though I thought this was a pretty terrible ep though. I don't care enough about Ted Grant to care about his and Oliver's parallels.

 

I loved that they had Cupid in the background of the crime scene at the gym though. Next week's ep looks more entertaining.

[El Seed]

Boxing glove arrow. They actually went for it. I can't decide if I love that they did it, or wish they would have left that in the Silver Age.

 

Diggle tells Oliver to cut Roy loose, and I question if Diggle's been taken over by a pod person.

 

Also, maybe people shouldn't admit to crimes if they don't actually know if they committed them. Just sayin'.

[apinknightmare]

What was the super sweet moment between Oliver and Laurel?

 

I guess that he told her he looks out for her because he cares about her? I'm not sure if that was supposed to be it or not.

[KenyaJ]

What was the super sweet moment between Oliver and Laurel?

 

They hugged and Oliver told her he cares about her. How moving.

 

The fact that MG said it was perhaps the sweetest moment they've ever shared proves how shitty their relationship has been. 

 

I don't mind Roy, but his and Oliver's new epic bromance feels inorganic and unearned to me. 

[ban1o]

I'm actually really tired of watching Laurel and Oliver at odds with each other, especially since it's over the stupidest things just to CREATE that drama. And I think Oliver's pretty controlling in general, but I do agree with him on this point - she really doesn't understand what she's getting into, and she is going to get herself and others hurt - I get that he thinks Sara wouldn't approve and in a way he's honoring her memory. Seems like he's not going to be a dick about it anymore, and I'm glad because for a second there when they were in the hospital I thought he was going to offer to train her. I guess most of her training is going to be happening off camera now? And as a positive - at least Laurel didn't actively try to murder Roy the hot second he admitted that he thought he killed Sara? I guess I'll count that as an improvement.

 

Not a fan of Diggle wanting Oliver to let Roy loose (that's not good mentoring, dude), although I am a fan of the way Oliver handled the situation with Roy. Overall though I thought this was a pretty terrible ep though. I don't care enough about Ted Grant to care about his and Oliver's parallels.

 

I loved that they had Cupid in the background of the crime scene at the gym though. Next week's ep looks more entertaining.

If guess we'll agree to disagree. I really liked it :) 

[apinknightmare]

If guess we'll agree to disagree. I really liked it :) 

 

I'm glad!

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

They hugged and Oliver told her he cares about her. How moving.

 

The fact that MG said it was perhaps the sweetest moment they've ever shared proves how shitty their relationship has been. 

 

I don't mind Roy, but his and Oliver's new epic bromance feels inorganic and unearned to me.

 

Like all of S3?

[KenyaJ]

Like all of S3?

 

Pretty much. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't mind Roy, but his and Oliver's new epic bromance feels inorganic and unearned to me. 

 

Aww, I actually like it. It makes sense to me. Ever since Oliver brought him in he's had a soft spot for Roy, although I guess the buildup of this relationship is yet another that suffered from the hiatus.

[foreverevolving]

Had to pause my stream watch and pop in here for a sec because:

 

BoxingGlove Arrow!!!

 

Can't. Stop. Laughing!!!!

 

What a clever way to put that in.

 

Someone tell me there's already a meme or a screen cap of it. that may become my new avatar.

 

 

Now back to watching.

 

ETA: Also, not sure if someone mentioned this, but: I saw cupid! when Fakanary was leaving the gym to talk with Oliver (who BTW stupidly took his hood off. but he always acts stupid around her). Cupid was standing among the crowd. That was a nice way to foreshadow the character.

Edited November 13, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Shanna]

Aww, I actually like it. It makes sense to me. Ever since Oliver brought him in he's had a soft spot for Roy, although I guess the buildup of this relationship is yet another that suffered from the hiatus.

I think Oliver has tried many times to mentor people like he was mentored, including with Roy before. So I get it.

I get irrationally angry when laurel shows up at the lair. Also the scene where she told grant offhand that she and arrow used to date shows exactly why nobody told her anything. Way to be stealthy laurel. No one could put these clues together, the guy you had a long term relationship with, who disappeared for five years and then came back and suddenly there was a vigilante! Ugh.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Shanna

[Lord Kira]

Laurel flat out telling Ted she used to date the Arrow massively compromises Oliver's identity. Especially when one of those exes was already publicly suspected of being the vigilante in the past.  How could she be so careless?

 

These writers always give me new reasons to hate her.

[KenyaJ]

Aww, I actually like it. It makes sense to me. Ever since Oliver brought him in he's had a soft spot for Roy, although I guess the buildup of this relationship is yet another that suffered from the hiatus.

 

It doesn't bother me. I actually thought Oliver having and expressing faith in Roy was sweet. But every time I watch them, I wonder if I missed a whole chunk of episodes last season where they bonded. All I remember is Roy being all "Hulk smash" and pissy with Oliver. And now they act like Roy is Oliver's little brother. It feels a little superficial to me.

[SmallScreenDiva]

This exchange killed me, though:

 

Maseo: Have you ever heard of steganography?

Oliver: Is that the dinosaur with the plates on its back?

 

The look on Maseo's face is priceless.

[JenMD]

Oliver: You're untrained.

Laurel: Whose fault is that?

 

Seriously, show?  I just can't.  And it was said in such a snide tone.  I really just don't understand these writers.  At least Laurel put to bed whether or not she's on Team Arrow, that's something, I guess.  This ep is just coming across as such a mess and I'm only halfway through.  We started late (on purpose), which has never happened before because I just can't be bothered to care about Ted, I already don't care about Laurel, so there was zero anticipation for this ep.  We had to pause so my sister could get some laundry done and I'm like, "Whatever, we'll finish it when you get back".  And from the sounds of it I shouldn't rush to watch the rest.  Sigh.  What happened to the show I couldn't wait to watch every week?? 

 

I really wish the writers would be more concerned with characterization and story and less with boxing glove arrows and other Easter eggs.  As a non comics reader, I either don't get it or don't care (most often, both).

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't bother me. I actually thought Oliver having and expressing faith in Roy was sweet. But every time I watch them, I wonder if I missed a whole chunk of episodes last season where they bonded. All I remember is Roy being all "Hulk smash" and pissy with Oliver. And now they act like Roy is Oliver's little brother. It feels a little superficial to me.

 

Yeah, I get it. We missed out on a lot over the hiatus. We also apparently missed out on when Dig was captured by body snatchers and replaced with a pod person.

This exchange killed me, though:

 

Maseo: Have you ever heard of steganography?

Oliver: Is that the dinosaur with the plates on its back?

 

The look on Maseo's face is priceless.

 

That was my favorite part of the whole episode, haha.

[Shanna]

This exchange killed me, though:

Maseo: Have you ever heard of steganography?

Oliver: Is that the dinosaur with the plates on its back?

The look on Maseo's face is priceless.

I totally missed that.

I just thought the boxing glove was another idiotic thing like Roy shooting a rocket launcher. This show is full of them.

[KenyaJ]

Yeah, I get it. We missed out on a lot over the hiatus. We also apparently missed out on when Dig was captured by body snatchers and replaced with a pod person.

 

Don't get me started. But it's just symptomatic of the plot-driven writing so far this season. 

[bluemapleleaf]

You know the old saying that the opposite of love is apathy?

That's about where I am with Arrow now.

I've gone from obsessed, appointment viewing to meh, tablet on my lap, texting my brother, viewing.

I didn't recognize half the characters tonight. I'll never watch any part of this epi again.

Come on show, I miss you...you can do so much better!

Edited November 13, 2014 by bluemapleleaf

[Writing Wrongs]

I am one of those people who have been waiting for the boxing glove arrow and thought it was clever how they did it.

[Actionmage]

Sorry, not sorry--I loved the cheese of the boxing glove arrow! It wasn't as if Ollie had one prepared; it was a way to not kill someone or kneecap a civilian. It was quick, it's probably a one-off and it was delish. Everyone rags on just that sort of thing, so after two season and a handful of episodes, they gave a nod.

 

I actually felt positive things for Laurel tonight. I actually am glad Laurel refused to listen to the idiocy Ollie was spilling, but it seemed to be hitting everyone but Quentin pretty hard. (::waves at the Capt.!::)  IA about the idiocy of the " we used to date" line, but....Writers!  Ted and Laurel seemed to get along and felt like a beginning friendship. Don't rush this, Writers! It's a positive step with Laurel, and Ted as well. Let it happen; you might get two couples for folks to root on if you do. Did I mention that Ted was charming and actually kind of cool, at least in this episode? I feel he was. Mileage varies, I know.

 

I was sooo angry at the Writers letting the nonsense of Team Arrow thinking Roy had killed Sara go longer than Roy telling Felicity his fears.  That they allowed Laurel to hear this Big Potential Truth was a misstep, to me.  I get that the Writers wanted Roy to "come clean" to everyone, especially Sara's sister, but? It depended on Team Arrow thinking Roy was capable of harming Sara in the first place.  Considering that all three of TA know about Roy and the cops, it was heartless of Felicity to not even try to ease his fear!  But we had all that Hong Kong stuff shot, so lets make folks act OOC just so we can get to use the candle twice? ::lets out breath::

 

I did like that Ted Grant was big enough that he was PPV-worthy, and that Diggle watched!

 

I enjoy Malcolm and Thea, but I didn't miss them too much this week.

 

I hope that there is continuity with the lines spoken by Laurel. The  'I don't work for you and I'm not on your team' point.  I am not averse to Laurel calling in tips, helping out, or whatever else, but she needs to treat Felicity, Diggle and Roy like people, not employees. As much as she isn't a member of Team Arrow, they, conversely, don't have to jump because she says boo. If she is drawing lines, she needs to keep them clear.

 

As for poor Roy? I hope that he decides to turn himself in, to Quentin. Roy is the kind of guy that this kind of guilt eats at him, as we just saw.  The cops' families deserve... something. To know what happened. Why it happened. I don't really want Roy to be incarcerated, but it's Iron Heights. They are not known for their tight security, at least to police agencies.

 

Oh, and here's my weekly dose:  Someone tell Quentin about Sara! kthxbye!

 

eta: A couple of weeks back, I was going through other archers from DC. I was trying to see who else could potentially be Sara's killer. I narrowed the options to about 20 potential archers. Color me happily surprised when Cupid announced herself! It was a line that thought it was super clever, but I'll wait to see what goes down next week.  I hope the preview shots were hokey on purpose/ had a reason. ::crosses fingers::

Edited November 13, 2014 by Actionmage

[popgoesculture]

I just can't, with this show. They took my two favorite characters and ruined their characterization. Why were Diggle and Felicity so OOC this episode? Between Digg's take on Roy and his defense of lying to Thea -- I don't recognize him anymore. As for Felicity, this is the person who always supports her team and believes in them, and suddenly the haphazardly written "science" is enough to accuse Roy? 

 

(And I agree, the flashbacks were the only part that I could stand.) 

 

Before, the bad in this show was easier for me to get past, but now it seems to be overwhelmingly bad. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I actually liked the boxing glove arrow, too. I thought the way they did it was pretty clever and funny. I'm wondering if Oliver took off the arrowhead first, though, because I think that would go through, right?. And he shot it at Ted's face!

[apinknightmare]

I actually liked the boxing glove arrow, too. I thought the way they did it was pretty clever and funny. I'm wondering if Oliver took off the arrowhead first, though, because I think that would go through, right?. And he shot it at Ted's face!

 

Yeah, I liked it too.

 

Things I liked about this ep:

 

1. The boxing glove arrow

2. Oliver's line about the steganography

3. Cupid

4. Oliver being kind of a good mentor to Roy (even though he let him go on thinking he murdered Sara for way too long, like...wouldn't the first thing you did be to help him remember? Failure).

 

The rest? Bleh.

[thuganomics85]

Well, at least I can happily say that "The Magician" is no longer my least favorite episode, which I didn't want to happen do to my Nyssa/Katrina Law love.  Because, wow, does this take the cake.  I was bored to death in this episode.  Only thing I really loved was the boxing glove gag.

 

Besides that, hilariously, Laurel was one of few things that didn't bug about it.  Instead, we had Ollie back to being a D-bag, Diggle being completely out of character, Roy moping around and picking the absolute wrong time to tell everyone he might have killed Sara (maybe wait till after the mission is done, buddy?), and Felicity was just exposition.  So entertaining.

 

Seriously, I really don't like Ted and think he's boring, but Ollie of all people giving him shit for maybe killing one person, is so freaking hilarious.  What's your body-count again, Arrow?  And, again, what Laurel is doing is silly, but do you really think you can stop her, Ollie?  Threatening Ted isn't going to get you anywhere.  Just accept that Laurel is taking this crazy path, and either help her, or give up.  She is way too stubborn to have her mind change.  Dammit, Ollie.  Quit making me take Laurel and Ted's side!

 

So, as some predicted, Roy didn't kill Sara, but was remembering that he killed that cop during his Mirakuru days.  So, that was a waste.

 

For some reason, this exchange when the car was burning just bugged me to death:

Ollie: "Go get Ted!"

Diggle: "OK, go get Laurel!"

 

Really, Diggle?  What, did you think Ollie was just going to go get smores and let Laurel burn?  It's like the writers think the audience is that dumb.

 

Couldn't even get into the Cupid reveal, since the final scene was so bad.  At this point, I already want to get to the Flash crossover. Maybe Barry and crew can make me enjoy the show again.

[statsgirl]

Has Dig been body snatched or something? I mean he looks like Dig but so far this season he's advised Oliver to keep lying to Thea and now to abandon Roy?! This is not the Dig we know and love.

This burned me so much.  Ex-military Diggle is telling Oliver to cut Roy loose when it's the mirakuru that affected him.  Whatever happened to not leaving a man behind?

 

And Felicity willing to let Roy confess to Oliver in front of blabber-mouth Laurel.

 

And Laurel telling Ted Grant she used to date the Arrow.

 

Yeah, the flashbacks, which I usually hate, were the best part.  Kudos to who called it with Oliver using the technique on Roy.

[benteen]

I liked Roy's storyline a lot tonight.  It's taken a while but I think the character has finally gotten compelling.  Props to Colton Haynes for stepping up his game.

 

Laurel still annoys me (and telling Ted she used to date the Arrow was stupid) and Oliver is right that she doesn't know what she's getting herself into.  But Oliver being such a controlling douche annoyed me.

 

Boxing glover arrow!

 

Ted having been a vigilante was interesting.

[popgoesculture]

Forgot to mention, the award for the two people who absolutely suck at keeping a secret identity is a tie between Oliver (who took his hood AND mask off in an alley near the police!) and Laurel (who told Ted that she used to date the Arrow, which, considering that two of her three love interests [or potential, as Blood might have been] died, is the dumbest). 

 

I think the only thing I did like was the boxing glove arrow. 

[ban1o]

I think in general a lot of people who are more comic-books fans enjoyed it from the reaction I'm seeing online. I guess since it had Wildcat/Arrow action, boxing glove arrow, good action sequences, Arsenal name drop and stuff. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

I think in general a lot of people who are more comic-books fans enjoyed it from the reaction I'm seeing online. I guess since it had Wildcat/Arrow action, boxing glove arrow, good action sequences, Arsenal name drop and stuff. 

Comic fans/fans of action. And I think it's interesting to see that a lot of the people who loved this week hated last week and vice versa. It's interesting to see. 

[Shanna]

Oh two more ridiculous things.

1. Oliver just casually strolling away from a car that was about to explode with laurel

2. Laurel and Ted were very ho hum about being kidnapped at gunpoint. Laurel was just kind of listening to the two of them in the alleyway like she was hearing a good piece of gossip.

[apinknightmare]

Oh two more ridiculous things.

1. Oliver just casually strolling away from a car that was about to explode with laurel

2. Laurel and Ted were very ho hum about being kidnapped at gunpoint. Laurel was just kind of listening to the two of them in the alleyway like she was hearing a good piece of gossip.

 

Getting kidnapped is old hat for Laurel at this point, no point in her getting all worked up over it.

[ban1o]

Comic fans/fans of action. And I think it's interesting to see that a lot of the people who loved this week hated last week and vice versa. It's interesting to see. 

yeah I was just reading comments on IGN most of whom are comic-book fans and most of them really liked it. I guess different strokes for different folks :P 

[Lord Kira]

I think all of the OOC stuff was intentional. Make the other characters dumb or assholes, so Laurel looks better by default. They did it near the end of last season too, remember? All of the characterizations will go back to normal in episodes that don't exist to prop her up.