S04.E07: The Snow Queen

[KAOS Agent]

 

Hook: It must be broken. I've been staring at it all day and I think I'm even more devilishly handsome and charming than usual.

 

Well, yeah. You ditched that godawful paisley atrocity and replaced it with a shirt in a lovely shade of blue. 

[Emperor Kuzco]

Hi yall I'm new here! Been lurking for quite some time and finally decided to join in on the fun :-) 

 

I personally enjoyed this episode and the interactions between the characters. I was ok with Snow not wanting to hand over the baby to Emma after the milk boiling incident. Tbh I'd be a little unnerved too and I think it's easier said than done for Snow to just brush it off and pretend like it didn't happen. It was a gut reaction and I can't fault her for that. Emma, of course, is understandably sad that she missed out on the 'mommy and me' moments, but I don't think that should make her feel unwanted or unloved. Snow and David were devastated that they didn't get to raise Emma themselves, and I think they have made that much clear. We all know that Snow never wanted to abandon Emma and had very little choice in how to save her other than send her through the wardrobe alone. It's not like she was happy she had to do it; at the time she did what she felt would give Emma her best chance. And I think most would agree that's what good parents do.  When Snow 'scolded' Emma about the lamp post incident she immediately realized what she had done. We all say and do things that, in hindsight, would be better left unsaid or not done. Of course Emma would never do anything to hurt her father, it was in the heat of the moment and the writers clearly want Emma do be in this lonely and isolated frame of mind. So I'm not on the Hate Snow bandwagon, I understand where she is coming from, even though logically we know Emma would never do anything to harm Snowflake or anyone else. Emma has slowly but surely opened up to her parents, which I've loved, but they need to hash out this mother-daughter relationship and help give them some closure about what happened because it clearly still affects them.

 

Totally random but I got to meet Sean Maguire (RH) at Dragoncon this year and he was soooo nice! So I kinda have a soft spot for the guy even though he's acting all kinds of strange as far as his character is concerned lol. I don't mind Regina and Robin all that much. I wish the writers had done a better job progressing their relationship but there ain't nothing I can do about that. The guy is clearly over his wife. Is it a little creepy that he's having a makeout session with Regina in her creepy lair while his wife is stuck as a slab of ice? Well yeah but at this point I just shrug my shoulders because it is what it is. Doesn't make me loathe his character, but Regina still irritates me to no end.

 

I love SQ but then again I have loved Elizabeth Mitchell since Lost. I was heartbroken for her in the fairybacks and I could definitely get behind a redemption arc for her. Not quite sure about this "wiping out storybrooke so I can have Emma and Elsa all to myself" thing though...I agree with the above poster who said she is likely lying/keeping something from Rumple because in the end it will suit her needs.

 

Oh and how cool to see Aurora and Cinderella, I had to do a double take because I didn't recognize them at first!

 

Can't wait for next weeks episode!!

[stealinghome]

That Rumpy wants more power, to be free of the dagger which is the only thing that keeps him in check, and also to roam outside the confines of Storybrooke is not at all surprising to me.

I think it's surprising for me because I totally see Rumpel as the man who would much, much rather be the biggest fish in a small pond than a medium-to-large fish in a big big pond. If he can suck all other magic users into the hat--or even just come to a permanent truce with Regina and the Charmings--I totally think he'd be more comfortable in Storybrooke, which is comfortable and familiar and easy, than out in the big wide world, a world that, for all his implanted memories, he still doesn't fully get/isn't fully comfortable with. Rumpel's like the ultimate homebody.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Firstly:

Weselton! It's Weselton!

(Also, the proper spelling is 'Arendelle').

 

Some of the music in this episode, particularly in the opening scene, sounded similar to music from Frozen. The band was a nice touch.

 

I like how they're portraying Arendelle Castle so far, although I think they goofed with the tower placement in the opening scene. Also there's no clock over the main gate, and the great hall seemed darker than the movie version.

 

The Duke of Weselton was great, although I was disappointed that he didn't compare himself to any birds in the dance scene. I also dislike how they made him a petty version when they could've made him a misunderstood villain who was traumatized by magic after his beloved was killed.

 

Speaking of which, Anna survived for hours after being struck in the heart, yet Helga only survives for minutes and then crumbles into pieces.

 

Grown-up "Gerda" looked a lot like Anna with her two braids.

 

I really wish that Elsa had more to do. Ever since the ice wall, all she's done is look through books trying to find Anna (and encourage Emma to make up with Regina, but we'll just overlook that). She should be the one to go after Emma; she's been through this before and understands what it feels like. The writers could draw some nice parallels there if they were so inclined.

 

Only twice in seven episodes have we heard someone say 'let it go', and neither time was in reference to one of the Frozen cast. I'm rather impressed; they're showing much more restraint than I would be.

 

All in all a good episode, one of the best this season. I'm quite looking forward to next week's two-hour-long episode.

 

Let me get this straight - We had to listen to Robin wax on about how his wife inspired him to go from a ne'er-do-well to a man of honor living a life with meaning. Then, Will informed Robin (and us) that Robin's wife hated  living in the woods and living a transient life, but she did it because she loved Robin so much. The take away Robin gets from this conversation is that he should go snog his wife's executioner while his wife lies dying. The writers want us to see this a great romance and wants us to cheer the snogging?

I think the intention here was that Marian seeing the best in Robin inspired Robin to see the best in Regina. Or something like that. I'm not buying it either, but it does seem like something they'd do.

 

Then, the Arendelle parents died when the girls were very young.

Elsa and Anna were eighteen and fifteen, respectively.

 

Random thought from my hubby last night during the Rumple/Snow Queen dialogue - Rumple's going to run for president.

 

Second thought: How big of a town is Storybrooke that Emma can hide is a bright yellow VW Bug?

I'd vote for him.

 

Big enough to have canyons, caves, and forests large enough to hide random uninhabited mansions. The "town line" seems to cover a lot more than just the urban area. Maybe it should be renamed to the "Plot Line".

[Mari]

Elsa and Anna were eighteen and fifteen, respectively.

Yes, I know.  But in the scope of things, that's very young--young enough that many parents are not going to be sharing what they consider their most painful, shameful secrets.  It's old enough that the girls are fairly autonomous, but not old enough that parents are always sure the child would understand the humanness of parents, or the moral complexity in what happened.  Lots of parents would wait until the girls were at an older, usually more settled, age.

 

I still think that memory spelling the Duke and pretending there had been a tragic, horrible accident that killed the other two sisters would not have harmed the kingdom, and made more sense, without doing any more serious damage to Frozen canon than they've done already.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Mari

[KAOS Agent]

 

How big of a town is Storybrooke that Emma can hide is a bright yellow VW Bug?

 

I was thinking this too, but it looked like she was parked on some track outside of town, so she wasn't super visible. Mostly, I think they got the point that Emma wanted to be alone and considering they'd ignored her earlier wishes and then yelled at her for reacting badly when they didn't listen, I give them credit for leaving her alone.

 

I watched the Snow Queen and Emma scenes several times because I thought they were the only really good part of the episode and I found it really really interesting that the Snow Queen quoted Emma almost verbatim about things she's said about herself in the past. Things like nothing changes the fact that for 28 years, she's been alone (Broken) and some of the parts about choices and being the Saviour came from other episodes. None of what the Snow Queen said hasn't been expressed by Emma at some point in this show and you can see that even though she was trying to play her parents in that discussion, everything the Snow Queen said hit hard because she has never really felt their arguments to be true. I wonder how Emma would react if pushed about Neal and his lack of choice.

 

I also found it really interesting to watch Elsa's reaction when Emma said her parents don't look at her differently. She played it like she didn't believe Emma and it almost seemed like she wanted to say something, but chose to be cheery about it instead. 

 

The Mommy and Me class was cute except Snow's baby is at most three weeks old as is Aurora's, so being at a class like that would not happen with babies that young. The whole thing with Snow was super contrived and I know that she has zero awareness of her insensitivity, but there was tension there between both of them before the bottle started boiling. Emma was hurt by the we want him to have everything comment and Snow was very not pleased with Emma commenting about putting a baby in a wardrobe. And while I probably wouldn't have handed my baby over to the revved up magic woman, the cringing away and then Snow not acknowledging it were just not okay. There was definitely no "we" failing there, Snow. I know this show will be all about apologies and love and hope and they'll hug it out, but that kind of reaction will never be forgotten by Emma and that fear will always be there for Snow. This is Echo Cave 2.0 and it will never be properly addressed.

[Dani-Ellie]

And while I probably wouldn't have handed my baby over to the revved up magic woman, the cringing away and then Snow not acknowledging it were just not okay.

 

I just did a rewatch, and Snow didn't even talk to her after pulling away. No reassurance of "We'll try again when your magic is a little more under control," no goodbye, nothing. Jesus Christ, Snow.

[Jean]

Rumpel's like the ultimate homebody.

Yep. He wouldn't even move to another village to save his marriage or his own peace of mind. The desire to be free from the dagger and have untold power fits but I don't see him wanting to randomly go to Nebraska and frolick in the corn fields with Belle.

[Camera One]

I just did a rewatch, and Snow didn't even talk to her after pulling away. No reassurance of "We'll try again when your magic is a little more under control," no goodbye, nothing. Jesus Christ, Snow.

 

I'm not sure what Ginny Goodwin was going for, but it seemed like Snow was about to go into fetal position over the baby when she saw the milk boil and cringing her face like she was in pain.  It's like Snow has PTSD or something.  Definitely weird behavior.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Camera One

[oliverwendell]

 

I think the intention here was that Marian seeing the best in Robin inspired Robin to see the best in Regina. Or something like that.

 

I agree that's what they were going for, but it was incredibly tone-deaf of them.  Really, Robin?  Your wife took a total flyer on a bandit, gave up her home and her family for him, and helped him become a better man.  How do you repay such selfless love and generosity?  By walking away from her and using her example to justify your behavior?  

 

I can't stand him.  I hope he dies.

[Rumsy4]

but that kind of reaction will never be forgotten by Emma and that fear will always be there for Snow.

 

I agree, KAOS. The cringing and the yelling may have been instinctual, even understandable in the first instance, but it doesn't do the Snow/Emma relationship any favors. Will Snow ever feel comfortable letting Emma near Neal? Would you hand over your baby to a recovering alcoholic? (Unless it's Regina of course). Emma too will not feel comfortable taking care of her brother even after she gets her powers under control, because she'll always be worrying if Snow's afraid she'll hurt him. The "we want him to have everything" comment is something you tell your friend or cousin, not the child you put in a wardrobe. This level of insensitivity towards Emma shows how detached Snow has become from her daughter. I hope the writers use this as as opportunity to fix their relationship. But I'm afraid it'll be resolved by a throwaway line by the end of the season/half-season.

 

Rumpel's like the ultimate homebody.

 

Yep. He wouldn't even move to another village to save his marriage or his own peace of mind. The desire to be free from the dagger and have untold power fits but I don't see him wanting to randomly go to Nebraska and frolick in the corn fields with Belle.

 

I agree. He would probably use the Hat powers to go back to the EF to his Dark Castle again, but I don't think he'll be comfortable venturing into the Land Without Magic.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

t seemed like Snow was about to go into fetal position over the baby when she saw the milk boil and cringing her face like she was in pain.  It's like Snow has PTSD or something.  Definitely weird behavior.

 

What makes the whole thing even stranger is that Snow wasn't a bit afraid of Red and she'd just slaughtered a ton of villagers and eaten her boyfriend. It's not like Snow has no experience with people who are unable to control their magic. Paging the Continuity Fairy!

Edited November 11, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's not like Snow has no experience with people who are unable to control their magic. Paging the Continuity Fairy!

Do I have to mention her midwife The Wicked Witch of the West? Or the wife of the Dark One being her babysitter? Or the fact her BFF is the woman who has tried to kill her for years - the same person who slaughtered countless hundreds?  I guess the Continuity Fairy couldn't make the writers camp this year.

 

As a totally irrelevant side note, Snow's judgement is a joke.

Edited November 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

This level of insensitivity towards Emma shows how detached Snow has become from her daughter. I hope the writers use this as as opportunity to fix their relationship. But I'm afraid it'll be resolved by a throwaway line by the end of the season/half-season.

I would hope, but I don't trust the writers any further than I can throw a seven ton truck.

 

Really, if we go by previously established writing patterns, well, we now have the s4 equivalent of Echo Cave here in 4x07. (Which, btw, the irony is not lost on me that Emma and Snow's mother/daughter relationship ( that was a bit on the ropes as it is ) just pretty much imploded at the "Mommy & Me Club") And just like Echo Cave this will be wrapped up about two episodes later with a nice happy, shiny bow where they'll just hug it all out. They don't need to have an open dialogue because hugging "solves" everything -- they just hug it all out. So somewhere around episodes 9 or 10 this will all be forgotten. (Translation: it will be wrapped up in a wholly unsatisfying and undeserved way that will make me wonder why they ever bothered bringing any of this up (and the writers will also blame it all on Emma. It's not really over until they blame it all on Emma). In preparation, I will be downloading an app on my phone that will call bullshit when it inevitably happens.

Edited November 11, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[KAOS Agent]

Can I just say I laughed a bit when Snow used "we" when talking about her failures? Someone's been hanging around Regina too much. The blame game on this show is so messed up.

[Camera One]

(and the writers will also blame it all on Emma. It's not really over until they blame it all on Emma)

 

But Emma still comes out of it likeable and rootable.  On this show, that's already a win.  It could be worse and Emma's personality gets distorted into a pretzel and then receive line after line that makes the audience hate her guts.  

[regularlyleaded]

But Emma still comes out of it likeable and rootable.  On this show, that's already a win.  It could be worse and Emma's personality gets distorted into a pretzel and then receive line after line that makes the audience hate her guts.  

And yet that doesn't make me feel any better about it. That's almost like Regina talk. "Why are you complaining, Ms. Swan. Everyone still likes you." 

 

Can I just say I laughed a bit when Snow used "we" when talking about her failures? Someone's been hanging around Regina too much. The blame game on this show is so messed up.

I laughed at the look on David's face. He looked like he was trying really hard to remember when in the last few hours he'd "failed". 

Edited November 11, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[jhlipton]

{Robin] really annoyed me when he said not once, but twice, that he has ALWAYS lived by a code and he has spend his WHOLE LIFE stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, despite the fact that he just told Will Scarlett for the 31st time that he was a petty thief when he met Marian and stole her father's horse.

 

That "my whole life" coming so soon after "not my whole life" was just so dumb! Did they have two writers in separate rooms writing that dialogue?

 

I think she was successful in emotionally manipulating Emma but I do think the exploding wall was all Emma.

 

Ingrid did something to the glass while Emma wasn't looking, which is where I think the explosion came from.

[Curio]

That "my whole life" coming so soon after "not my whole life" was just so dumb! Did they have two writers in separate rooms writing that dialogue?

 

I think both Adam and Eddy wrote this episode, so that scenario is actually entirely possible.

[Faemonic]

Can I just say how much I love Elsa? She believed Emma's "They don't look at me differently because of magic!" And only went, "You're lucky." Not, like, "Grr I shall have your charming family for my own!!!!!" I know Elsa's not supposed to be the villain, and maybe Elsa's own self-esteem issues are what make her seem more mature, but that's just so refreshing that someone's emotional issues aren't an apocalyptic landmine!

Also, is there trouble in paradise for Baby Neal to have come out normal? Because I thought Emma had magic because she was the product of true love. And that it was light magic.

Helga doesn't look like Emma at all. The Enchanted Forest Peerage must have had a bad artist, or Hook has bad eyes.

Idunn or Gerda or whatever her name is, she's the real snow queen! Like, girl, that was cooold. Also, I think she looks like Scarlett Johansson at some angles.

Also, I don't care if the timelines don't match up, (did Ashley have a second kid already? Did being a flying monkey arrest Aurora's gestation period?) the Storybrooke mommies club was adorable.

when Regina told Henry "the next time a happy ending comes knocking, I'm not going to let this book stop me again" ah no Regina you were the one who was too afraid to go into the tavern to see Robin it had nothing to do with any book - it's called taking responsibility for your actions!

Baby steps. If Regina's hopeful for a "next time happy ending" then she's not blaming Snow or Emma for ruining (ruining!!!) her life. Edited November 11, 2014 by Faemonic

[FurryFury]

Can I just say how much I love Elsa? She believed Emma's "They don't look at me differently because of magic!" And only went, "You're lucky." Not, like, "Grr I shall have your charming family for my own!!!!!" I know Elsa's not supposed to be the villain, and maybe Elsa's own self-esteem issues are what make her seem more mature, but that's just so refreshing that someone's emotional issues aren't an apocalyptic landmine!

 

Elsa's so awesome, and NICE (how great is it to see actually nice people on the show!) and Georgina practically radiates maturity, regalness and (when it's appropriate) intensity. Yet she's an afterthought in her own tale. I miss the Arendelle flashbacks centered on her - hope we'll see much more of them next week. It's such a waste of a great character.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FurryFury

[HeimrArnadalr]

Also, is there trouble in paradise for Baby Neal to have come out normal? Because I thought Emma had magic because she was the product of true love. And that it was light magic.

He's still only a few days old (right? Has it even been a week since the S3 finale?) so he might not be exhibiting any magic powers yet. Baby Emma, from what little we've seen of her, seemed pretty normal too.

[Curio]

Also, is there trouble in paradise for Baby Neal to have come out normal? Because I thought Emma had magic because she was the product of true love. And that it was light magic.

 

This is actually an interesting point. If Baby Neal ends up not being magical, is it because he was born in the World Without Magic? Or is having magical powers a rare genetic thing, kind of like how Elsa has powers but Anna doesn't? Maybe this should be discussed in the magic thread...

[Shanna Marie]

Upon a rewatch, I've narrowed in on what it was that made me blame Snow for the milk boiling. It was the very scolding, "how dare you!" tone she used to say, "Emma!" when Emma remarked about her having put her first child in a magical wardrobe. That was the same tone she used after the lightpole got knocked down. So, basically she let her child know that she didn't want to hear about her pain, that Emma's own mother wasn't a safe place for her to talk about her life. Yeah, I'm sure it's not pleasant for Snow to hear what her daughter experienced, but it was even worse to actually experience it as a child. The whole thing was a one-two-three punch of pain for Emma -- first the clueless and thoughtless "we want to give him everything!" said to the child who got nothing, which indicates that Snow hasn't even thought about what Emma might feel about Baby Do-Over. Then scolding Emma and making it clear that Emma's not allowed to bring up what actually happened to her, with the implication that there's zero empathy because Emma's not allowed to have feelings about this and Snow's feelings about it are more important. And finally, the cringing away while holding the baby close against her, with her body language saying very clearly "stay away from my child!" In one brief encounter, Snow managed to pretty much say that she doesn't really count Emma as her child. I'm sure that's not what she actually meant, but the message she was sending was that she doesn't want Emma to in any way spoil things for her "real" child and needs to just shut up about what her own life was like.

 

As for Ingrid, I'm wondering if she was de-urned and re-urned at some point between the time Gerda urned her and the time Hans accidentally freed her. If not, she's seriously reaching in her idea about how people respond to her and to magic. The only people who called her a "monster" were the kidnapping creeper, the weasel trying to court his way up in the succession and the sister who'd just learned that she'd killed their other sister. Otherwise, the only people who knew about her magic were totally supportive and accepting. She was the one who locked herself away in fear. No one else knew, so she doesn't know how they'd have reacted. Also, in what we've seen, she never had her big "Let it Go!" moment in which she fully accepted and started using her powers. Didn't she and Elsa chat about the cool things they could do? We hadn't seen her building ice palaces or snowmen, so if she was in the urn all that time, when did she do that? Or was she snowing Elsa? (Sorry, the puns just write themselves.)

 

And I hope after Emma has some time to cool down (sorry again), she can think a little more rationally and realize just what a snow job (oops) she was getting from Ingrid. After all, Regina, who actually used her powers for evil and to torment the whole population, and Rumple, who has screwed around with people's lives and extracted high prices for his magic, aren't exactly shunned and locked away. In fact, everyone's remarkably accepting of them, considering their deeds. Surely Emma would know that it would take a lot for people to start fearing her. She'd have to do worse than curse an entire kingdom and rip out a lot of hearts.

[YaddaYadda]

I read somewhere that naming him Neal cancelled out his magical powers.  I'm all for that.  Can Emma be the special snowflake please?

[Emma]

Of course BDO is going to be magical. This show loves taking everything that makes Emma special and give it to others.

[Dani-Ellie]

In one brief encounter, Snow managed to pretty much say that she doesn't really count Emma as her child. I'm sure that's not what she actually meant, but the message she was sending was that she doesn't want Emma to in any way spoil things for her "real" child and needs to just shut up about what her own life was like.

 

So. Much. This.

 

And look, Snow didn't even say another freakin' word to her.

 

Emma: So I guess I'll have to take a raincheck on babysitting?

Snow: *crickets*

 

Emma's question was unsure and full of pain and hurt and Snow couldn't even bring herself to respond to her. So Emma's last impression going into not only a chase after a villain but also the subsequent psychological warfare with the Snow Queen was how her own mother couldn't even look her in the eye or bring herself to say anything to her.

Holy fuckin' shit, Snow, you totally failed Parenting 101 this episode.

[Emma]

You know what's sad about the whole Emma-Snow deal? Emma will probably have to beg Snow to be her mom like she had to beg Regina to be her friend.

[Mari]

Holy fuckin' shit, Snow, you totally failed Parenting 101 this episode.

Not even just parenting. Usually even the bonds of friendship and possible future babysitter would result in a better response.

[Camera One]

So, the 3 sisters....I guess Helga is to Ingrid what Anna is to Elsa and Hook is to Emma?  The understanding, accepting, the person who takes up for them and so on to these women born to their magic.  I see what you did there show...

 

Yeah, basically, Adam and Eddy are re-doing "Frozen" on three different levels and in three different variations.

 

There's Elsa and Anna.  Currently separated but will come into play when Elsa questions Anna's love for her since Anna presumably put her into the urn.

 

Elsa's role is played by Ingrid/Snow Queen in the flashback stories, and Elsa's role is played by Emma in the current-day story.  In this episode, they basically got Emma to the place in the "Frozen" movie when Elsa runs off and is all alone.

 

In the flashbacks, Duke Weselton created the emotional catalyst that affected Ingrid and caused the out-of-control power.  Meanwhile, the role of present-day Duke Weselton is given to Snow.

 

Just how do the writers get so many wonderful ideas.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Camera One

[iMonrey]

Of course BDO is going to be magical.

 

What the heck does BDO stand for?

 

Or maybe DQ's ice trail have little arrows etched into them so you can see which way she went. It's also hilarious that they didn't suspect it was a trap as soon as David mentioned her ice trail. Did they forget she also has legs and is capable of, you know, walking like everyone else?

 

She can also teleport/vaporate/whatever they call it on this show. Which brings me to the question, where'd she learn how to do that? Elsa can't do that. For that matter, how did she master her powers so quickly after Hans freed her from the urn? She was completely out of control when Gerda put her in the urn, and yet somehow when she's freed by Hans she's cool as a cucumber. Does being in the urn teach you how to use your powers? Does it give you extra powers, like vaporating? Or did she get that power from possessing the magic hat? 

 

Speaking of the urn, where is it, and why don't they simply put the Snow Queen back into it? Emma already laid out her entire agenda, to use the mirror to bring out the worst in the Storybrooke population, presumably so they'll turn on Emma and Elsa, which will drive Emma and Elsa to Ingrid, as far as she knows, and they can be a family and  . . . do whatever I guess. Sounds pretty half-baked to me but what do I know? At any rate, what does Emma have to gain by not putting Ingrid back into the urn? Is it because they want her to tell them where Anna is? Surely there are other, less dangerous ways of finding out where Anna is, with all the other magic they have in this town. It doesn't seem worth the risk - the second they had Ingrid in that interrogation room, they should have urned her.

[Dani-Ellie]

Elsa destroyed the urn when she came out of it at the end of 3x22, if I remember correctly.

[Rumsy4]

BDO is Baby Do-Over, from Snow's Echo Cave speech about wanting another baby.

Elsa destroyed the Urn when she got out of it. So, they can't Urn the DQ. :-p

[RadioGirl27]

What the heck does BDO stand for?

Baby-Do-Over, also known as Neal, even if I prefer to call him Snowflake.

 

Elsa destroyed the urn when she came out of it at the end of 3x22, if I remember correctly.

That was last season, I doubt Adam and Eddy remember it.

(Rumsy, we answered at the same time LOL)

Edited November 11, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Emma]

What the heck does BDO stand for?

Baby do over.

[Serena]

What the heck does BDO stand for?

 

 Baby Do Over. 

 

Speaking of the urn, where is it, and why don't they simply put the Snow Queen back into it? Emma already laid out her entire agenda, to use the mirror to bring out the worst in the Storybrooke population, presumably so they'll turn on Emma and Elsa, which will drive Emma and Elsa to Ingrid, as far as she knows, and they can be a family and  . . . do whatever I guess. Sounds pretty half-baked to me but what do I know? At any rate, what does Emma have to gain by not putting Ingrid back into the urn? Is it because they want her to tell them where Anna is? Surely there are other, less dangerous ways of finding out where Anna is, with all the other magic they have in this town. It doesn't seem worth the risk - the second they had Ingrid in that interrogation room, they should have urned her.

The urn was destroyed by Elsa in the S3 finale.

 

EDIT: LOL, okay, a bunch of posts with the same answers.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Serena

[Camera One]

She can also teleport/vaporate/whatever they call it on this show. Which brings me to the question, where'd she learn how to do that? Elsa can't do that. For that matter, how did she master her powers so quickly after Hans freed her from the urn? She was completely out of control when Gerda put her in the urn, and yet somehow when she's freed by Hans she's cool as a cucumber. Does being in the urn teach you how to use your powers? Does it give you extra powers, like vaporating?

 

It seems like inside the urn, you become some sort of flowing liquid.  So did she have a consciousness inside the urn, to stew over everything and become bitter and angry?  Wouldn't coming out of an urn after decades be sort of like stepping out of a dark room into the sun?  But as you said, the Snow Queen was completely lucid and cool when she emerged.  Same with Elsa when she came out of the urn.  She strode purposefully out of the barn.

[Curio]

What the heck does BDO stand for?

Baby do over.

Am I the only one who kind of wishes this site had the same TWoP rules when it comes to abbreviations? It's hard to keep track of them all: BDO, CS, OQ, ST (or is it SF?) SQ, the other SQ, DQ, A&E, IMO, FWIW, TLK, FTL... Is it really that much more effort to type out the entire word?

 

I feel like I should probably follow this complaint up with "you kids get off my lawn!"

Edited November 11, 2014 by Curio

[oliverwendell]

 

Yeah, basically, Adam and Eddy are re-doing "Frozen" on three different levels and in three different variations.

 

I know some may think this is unimaginative, but I kind of like the idea behind it.  The parallels give them a chance to toy with the theme of destiny vs. free will by showing us how the same set of circumstances can play out in multiple ways depending on the people involved and the choices they make.  For example, Ingrid and Elsa each accidentally mortally wounded their "Annas," but Ingrid did it because she was trying to kill someone else and Elsa did it while playing a game.  Helga died instantly from the more malevolent use of the power, while Anna survived long enough to cure herself with an act of true love and help Elsa control it. 

 

Then there's Gerda v. Snow.  Gerda urned her sister out of fear, erased her from history, then went off to Rumple to try to rob her daughter of the same magic.  Meanwhile Snow already feels bad about her fearful reactions to Emma and would never do any of those things to her. 

 

Basically, the Snow Queen expects Emma and Elsa to accept her as their family because she assumes their magic will alienate them from or kill everyone they love, just as hers did, but I think the writers are going to show us that she's underestimating not just Emma and Elsa but the people they love. 

 

I'll have to see how the execution goes, but I was happy with their depiction of Ingrid's backstory, so I'm hopeful it will work reasonably well in the end.   

[Camera One]

I do like the "big picture" idea of it as well.  I just have a problem when they slot roles into existing characters without fleshing it out, like when they had Granny and Grumpy play the role of the Mob lynching Elsa.  I agree their backstory for the Snow Queen in this episode overall did work.  I felt a little in the dark about how Gerda and Snow felt in this episode versus everyone else, since they're the ones who really have to defend their actions and whether their reactions needed to be as drastic as they were, so they essentially made the situation worse.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Camera One

[Serena]

I honestly would be more being a "themes repeating" kind of thing if they 1. didn't keep repeating that freaking word, "monster", 2. didn't completely plagiarize not one, but two jokes from Frozen (Weselton and the funny dance) 3. didn't plagiarize from themselves the "devilishly handsome" line. 

All that together, makes the fact that they're repeating Frozen's basic themes annoying. Without that, I could maybe overlook it, since "parallels" has always been this show's thing.

[YaddaYadda]

3. didn't plagiarize from themselves the "devilishly handsome" line.

 

I've been wondering about this and why they keep throwing it in.  I always said Hook is his own cheerleader and is good at patting his own back, but I don't get it.  Is it some sort of running gag?  Does the actor roll his eyes every time he sees that like?  Is it something that's part of Hook's self-loathing.  It's like when he went to get Emma for their date, she almost sounds like she's about to give him a complement about the way he looks but he cuts her off with his "I know". 

 

I don't think death scares Hook, I think turning into a toad or having a pimple would freak him out a lot more.

 

That being said, I still really love Hook.

[Camera One]

Or maybe he just really likes the way he looks.  Some people are just like that... selfie culture, anyone?

[Mitch]

Good episode...The Snow Queen is great and I love her twist on the usual "Once" trope of family dysfunciton. I also love that she treats Rump like he is just kind of there..like the bus boy at Grannys.  

 

I think in regard to Robin and Regina they were going for "uncontrollable passion," but it was just written so crappy. As with the forshadowing that her parents were not "entirely, " comfortable with Emma's magic, this really came out of nowhere. These guys have no idea how to build things up.  OQ don't bug me. I think that he does love his wife but he is sexually infaturated with Regina..which would make an interesting storyline if this wasnt a Disney show, "No Robin I am tired of levitatiing us during sex...and I will not morph into the form of a Playboy Bunny or anyone else, that really disturbed me when you wanted me to morph into Little John, what went on in the woods anyway?How would you like me to morph you into Tom Brady?"   But alas its Disney and Once so its all "Twue Wub!"  I still think its Maleficent moprhed into Marion and that when she gets unfrozen we will see. What did the Snow Queen have against her unless she knew she was Mal, and wanted her out of the way?

 

Okay, did they say Rump wanted to go out in the world, and bring his magic, or just get rid of the dager? All I heard was the dager but how does Rump bring magic with him? And where would he go?  I can understand him getting bored of Storybrooke. I also love that they actually foreshadowed (for once)  that Belle and he are over..."How can I deny my beloved wife?" said in just the tone of sarcasam that only that dimbulb Belle wouldn't catch,  and that he rolled his eyes with them entering the shop, even with Belle in tow..

 

Does Regina live in that masoleum? She could create a cool club there which is what SB desperately needs.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Mitch

[Curio]

I've been wondering about this and why they keep throwing it in.  I always said Hook is his own cheerleader and is good at patting his own back, but I don't get it.  Is it some sort of running gag? Does the actor roll his eyes every time he sees that like? Is it something that's part of Hook's self-loathing.

 

From a writer's standpoint, I think Adam & Eddy just really like that line they came up with and refuse to let an old joke go.

 

From an actor's standpoint, I sure hope Colin rolls his eyes whenever he reads that because it's not that great of a line.

 

From a character standpoint, we know Hook is self-loathing, but he's also not an idiot - I'm pretty sure he knows he's at least decently attractive. But whenever he comments about his good looks, I perceive it as him being a little bit sarcastic and covering up for some other insecurities. With the mirror situation, he probably knows he'd be screwed if his mirror-self starting throwing harsh truths out (because, let's face it, he probably has a ton of stuff he can chastise himself about), so instead, he deflects and makes a joke that boosts his ego.

[RadioGirl27]

From a character standpoint, we know Hook is self-loathing, but he's also not an idiot - I'm pretty sure he knows he's at least decently attractive. But whenever he comments about his good looks, I perceive it as him being a little bit sarcastic and covering up for some other insecurities. With the mirror situation, he probably knows he'd be screwed if his mirror-self starting throwing harsh truths out (because, let's face it, he probably has a ton of stuff he can chastise himself about), so instead, he deflects and makes a joke that boosts his ego.

I see that line as a self-defense mechanism. Hook is all façade but he is actually really insecure and self-loathing. His good looks are probably the only thing he is proud about himself.

[Souris]

I see that line as a self-defense mechanism. Hook is all façade but he is actually really insecure and self-loathing. His good looks are probably the only thing he is proud about himself.

 

And being a damn good captain!

[Faemonic]

Two things I loved about the mirror scene:

1. Belle trying to rescue Hook from what she thought would be his self-loathing. He shot her in the back when she didn't have a weapon and took away her identity. Yeah, he apologized to her for it, but I still think that was awfully big of Belle.

2. The Charming-Hook team-up. It's like they read each other's minds, like, when did they get that close? Also comes up again when David shoves Hook out of falling lamppost danger.

[Serena]

I've been wondering about this and why they keep throwing it in.  I always said Hook is his own cheerleader and is good at patting his own back, but I don't get it.  Is it some sort of running gag?  Does the actor roll his eyes every time he sees that like?  Is it something that's part of Hook's self-loathing.  It's like when he went to get Emma for their date, she almost sounds like she's about to give him a complement about the way he looks but he cuts her off with his "I know". 

 

I don't think death scares Hook, I think turning into a toad or having a pimple would freak him out a lot more.

 

That being said, I still really love Hook.

I don't mind "vain" being part of Hook's characterization. I don't mind him being like "look at how pretty I am" when presented with a mirror. I just wish they would use other words. Hook has an impressive vocabulary, and they keep going to "devilishly handsome" when describing his looks. How about "impressively pretty"? "Incredibly attractive"? "Devastatingly good looking"? Just switch it up, for God's sake.

[Mari]

 Hook has an impressive vocabulary, and they keep going to "devilishly handsome" when describing his looks. How about "impressively pretty"? "Incredibly attractive"? "Devastatingly good looking"? Just switch it up, for God's sake.

I completely agree that he could use that impressive vocabulary--and they probably don't because of complacency, but it could be a deliberate bit of characterization.

 

The first word, "devilishly" implies a villain.  Usually used that way it would mean "to the extreme", but it also means "malicious, evil".  Devilishly handsome would include both his villainy--which is a reason for his self-loathing--and his looks--which he's aware of, because he's used them.

 

It boosts his ego, and knocks it down, at the same time.