The Expanse Novels

[MissLucas]

Well, I liked it a lot better than Babylon's Ashes.

Spoiler

The time jump was jarring but I can see why it was a narrative necessity (the problem lies more with Babylon's Ashes). But geez, how old is everybody by now? And although I'm glad Avasarala is still around it felt a bit like fan-service.

Of course the things nobody really cares to investigate come back with a vengeance. In this case the disappeared Martians and the 'bullet'. It always struck me as odd that nobody bothered to check what actually destroyed the ring-building culture just in case it would make an unwelcome return. But that's maybe human.

Not enough time was spent on the Roci, hmrp! But I was insanely happy for Bobbie when she realized how to get her own ship. Moments of happiness are rare in this series and so I cherished that.

 

Random observations:

I know nobody misses the little s*** but I was still wondering what had happened to Filip.

Clarissa got a good exit.

Bobbie was the book's MVP.

And no matter how shiny and perfect Laconian rhetoric and ideology was presented - the pen renders that all null and void. Can't wait for Holden to find out and then blow the whistle on that one.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by MissLucas

[JZL]

I read the first one and had intended on waiting for the TV episodes, but that could take years.  Has anyone regretted not waiting and forging ahead with the books?

[SmithW6079]

I just started "Cibola Burn" after a long hiatus. I was disappointed after "Abaddon's Gate" (mostly because of its focus on one character that I hated), and I needed to take a break. I'm enjoying this book thus far. Someone upthread mentioned that the expansion (as it were) of the series beyond the politics of the solar system turned it more into a space opera, but I have no issue with that. Space opera can be fun.

Two of the things I really like is that gravity and lack thereof are not hand waved away -- people suffer ill effects from growing up in low gravity -- and that interplanetary travel takes time; no warp speed here.

On 12/31/2017 at 8:34 PM, JZL said:

I read the first one and had intended on waiting for the TV episodes, but that could take years.  Has anyone regretted not waiting and forging ahead with the books?

No. I was quite anxious to see what happens to these characters that I decided to read the next ones in the series.

My only concern is that it eventually becomes "too much." I can't recall the title and author, but there was a series I read several years ago that just went on and on, with interplanetary wars among humans and aliens and cyborgs and creatures that lived in stars and gas giants, with an evil human government official manipulating everyone. There were about seven or eight books, and the last two were just a chore to finish.

Edited February 13, 2018 by SmithW6079

[raven]

Aack!  I want my Roci crew as a family and I want the Roci name back!  I am intrigued with the changes the show's made but I just love how bonded the Roci crew is in the books, I hope that comes soon. 

[Haleth]

I have the 6th book on my nightstand, next to read. Can't wait!

[raven]

16 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I have the 6th book on my nightstand, next to read. Can't wait!

I have to wait for book 8 for my next unread one :(   Enjoy!

[jhlipton]

@MissLucas, can you remind me what happened to the proto-molecule left behind on the Roci?

Edited April 13, 2018 by jhlipton

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

@MissLucas, can you remind me what happened to the proto-molecule left behind on the Roci?

To be on the safe side if someone walks in here who's not that far into the series (talking about the end of book 3 and book 4):

Spoiler

It was the transmitter the protomolecule used to project Not-Miller into Holden's mind. I can't find the exact explanation in the book anymore but I think that's roughly accurate. In the books that residual bit of proto-molecule is not mentioned up until late in the narrative when Not-Miller mentions it, so readers are kept completely in the dark where Not-Miller is coming from. The show has made sure the audience saw that there's still proto-molecule on the Rocinante. It remains to be seen how long it will take for folks to make the connection once Not-Miller is making his first appearance.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

To be on the safe side if someone walks in here who's not that far into the series (talking about the end of book 3 and book 4):

  Reveal hidden contents

It was the transmitter the protomolecule used to project Not-Miller into Holden's mind. I can't find the exact explanation in the book anymore but I think that's roughly accurate. In the books that residual bit of proto-molecule is not mentioned up until late in the narrative when Not-Miller mentions it, so readers are kept completely in the dark where Not-Miller is coming from. The show has made sure the audience saw that there's still proto-molecule on the Rocinante. It remains to be seen how long it will take for folks to make the connection once Not-Miller is making his first appearance.

Oh, I'm only up to the end of Book 2 -- I'm trying not to get too far ahead of the show -- and thought I'd missed something.  (And, no, I didn't peek at the spoiler!)

Thanks!

[Haleth]

On 4/12/2018 at 8:53 PM, Haleth said:

I have the 6th book on my nightstand, next to read. Can't wait!

Well, it turns out I mistakenly got book 5 from the library, which I realized after reading the first paragraph.  The library doesn't even have the 6th.  Grr.

Anyway, question about Anna in the show vs book.  (Are we supposed to spoiler tag discussion of the books?  I thought it was a read at your own risk thread.  I'll tag just in case.) 

Spoiler

I don't remember how Anna ends up on the new Navoo, but I don't recall that she was friends with the Secretary General.  I do remember that she was married to a Belter and they lived on one of the asteroids, not Earth.  Did the show invent a new backstory for her Elizabeth Mitchell?

[MissLucas]

I'm never quite sure how to handle book spoilers myself - so I'll keep the tags up for books not yet covered by the show:

Spoiler

They introduced Anna earlier than in the books (just like Avarasala). We meet Anna in Abbadon's Gate - she's part of the delegation sent to investigate the Ring on the Thomas Prince. I don't think she had a backstory with the Secretary General but quite frankly I was binge-reading and often have to check with the Expanse Wikia (no mention of a friendship there either).

Edited April 20, 2018 by MissLucas

[SmithW6079]

On 2/12/2018 at 12:42 AM, SmithW6079 said:

I just started "Cibola Burn" after a long hiatus. I was disappointed after "Abaddon's Gate" (mostly because of its focus on one character that I hated), and I needed to take a break. I'm enjoying this book thus far. Someone upthread mentioned that the expansion (as it were) of the series beyond the politics of the solar system turned it more into a space opera, but I have no issue with that. Space opera can be fun.

To follow up on my comment from February: I finished "Cibola Burn," and I found it was as disappointing as "Abaddon's Gate" (but for different reasons). I had said that I didn't mind the expansion (as it were) into "space opera," but "Cibola Burn" was just dreadful. The "bad guy" was so stereotypical that he should have just twirled his mustache as he tied the heroine to the railroad tracks. It's only until the book is almost over that he explains the motivation for his actions. They actually make sense, and if the discussion had occurred earlier, things might not have had to happen the way they did. The "good guys" are either morons or miracle workers or so morally ambiguous that they could be the "bad guys." One point of view character out-Mary Sues the original Mary Sue. A lot of the action is just unbelievable.

However, I pressed on to "Nemesis Games," but I could make it only about halfway. It reintroduces a character I hated the first go-around and sends the characters off separately in different directions. The only thing I liked was some of Amos's backstory. Not sure I'll be back for the rest of the book series.

[marinw]

This is another example about how The Expanse is one of those rare instances where the TV adaptation is better than the source material. I never made it past the first Song Of Ice and Fire book.

[raven]

43 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

To follow up on my comment from February: I finished "Cibola Burn," and I found it was as disappointing as "Abaddon's Gate" (but for different reasons). 

I like both novels and I really enjoyed CB.  Without getting spoilery, Elvi is a divisive character but I liked that she wasn't like Bobbie, Avasarala or Naomi; she was full of doubts but when it came to her work she was badass in her own way.

I'm actually not thrilled with some changes the show has made so I just have to view it as its own entity.  I guess on the show they don't want Holden making the major decisions he does in the books (so far).

43 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

The only thing I liked was some of Amos's backstory.

I like Amos but I found his backstory fairly standard and cliche.    Interesting how we can all have such different opinions!  NG was a bit tedious (the action on Earth) but I really liked Naomi's story and the Alex/Bobbie stuff.

10 hours ago, Haleth said:

The library doesn't even have the 6th.  Grr.

You can ask them to get it, especially if they have all the others.  I didn't know this until I asked at the desk at my library, they didn't have it and told me I could make a request and because they had the whole series, there was a good chance they would get it (which they did!)  I ended up buying all the books anyway but I like being able to give them a trial run first.

[MissLucas]

I just checked my reading notes for the series and noticed than for more than one book the entry features the words "useless characters" - so I guess it's a good thing that the show merges/drops characters. I did not care for most of Cibola Burn until the last few chapters, I hope the show condenses the plot. Nemesis Games was definitely not a favorite but Babylon's Ashes takes the prize for most 'urgh' - too preachy and featuring one gigantic plot hole. 

[Haleth]

As much as I love this show I kind of hope they end it before the last couple books, maybe ending with

Spoiler

 

the opening of the gates.  I think the series lost something once it expanded beyond the solar system.  One of the things I loved about the story was the discord between the various factions and the political fight for control of limited resources, and of course our little family of windmill tilters.  It is a familiar story that we can relate to, very intimate despite the vastness of our system.  Once the gates opened they dynamic changed, it was no longer such an intra-human story.  (I know, the focus shifted to control of the gate by the factions.)  There was more a feeling of "us" vs the great unknown.  The story became more fantastical sci fi rather than science based sci fi.  

And I can definitely live without watching Marco and Filip screw up everything.

 

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

As much as I love this show I kind of hope they end it before the last couple books, maybe ending with

Spoiler

I'd rather wish they skipped all the Marco and Filip crap and went straight to the chase - namely who destroyed the Ring-Builders and why. That's the real mystery that the writers have buried under tons of other plots. Some of them are intriguing - others not so much. That said I enjoyed all the factions and their quarrels until the Ring-opening then things got weird. So you might have a point there.

One thing I hope for is that they somehow find a way to deal with all the distances and time it takes to get to places. It's okay in the books and I appreciate the effort to illustrate the vastness of space but in the show it would require constant time jumps - so maybe place the Ring closer or just handwave the problem away- not sure which one I'd prefer.

 

 

[Macbeth]

Persepolis Rising for me was much better than the last book. This book was compelling enough that I am looking forward to the next 2.

After the last book I wasn't interested in reading another book. But the TV show changed my mind. 

If they only have 2 books left it looks like we will finally be dealing with  

Spoiler

What killed the species that created the stargaze

Which should have started much sooner. They could have taken out the last book and at least 150 pages of this book. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Macbeth

[raven]

Publication of Tiamat's Wrath delayed

Originally supposed to be published in December, will now be in March.

[MissLucas]

Hmm, they make quite the effort to explain that the book is finished and the delay has nothing to do with the authors. They probably want to ward off any angry comments that Abraham and Franck caught GRRM's block-bug.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Maybe they want to capitalize on the whole Amazon series pickup?

[Hanahope]

So, is the upcoming book the last?  Are more planned?  It it going to be a real end to the story, or is it an ongoing story?  

I have started the first and I just would like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time (given events with GoT)

[AngelKitty]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

So, is the upcoming book the last?

I just looked on Goodreads where it indicates there will be one more book making the total 9. 

[Holmbo]

I've held out on the books so far, only watching the show cause I thought it was fun to just see how it fares without background information. But now I feel like reading the book so I'll give the first one a try. I plan to make some running commentary about it in this thread, unless anyone is here to object. Usually I tend to blow through books too quickly , not reflecting until I'm all through it. This would force me to slow down a bit, and maybe it'll be entertaining for you book reader to get my reactions to the differences compared to the show.

[Holmbo]

So it starts with a Julie prologue. I didn't expect that but of course I should have. The short intro at the start of the pilot episode of the show is just like a prologue.

Quote

The Scopuli had been taken eight days ago, and Julie Mao was finally ready to be shot."

Nice opening line.
The story is the same as the show. At first I thought it was different as she describes that she's hiding, but she was thrown in there. It seems like she's in there for a shorter time in the show though. I'd say two days or so.

Quote

When the drive stopped, so did gravity, and Julie woke from a dream of racing her old pinnace to find herself floating while her muscles screamed in protest and then slowly relaxed,

Nice foreshadowing for later.
She gets out of the hatch (crappy construction it must be when you can just kick it apart) and goes out to find the ship empty. Breaks into the engineering deck and sees the protmolecule all over the reactor. It's not blue in the book I suppose. And it has her former captains head floating around in it. Very creepy.

[Holmbo]

Chapter one: Holden
We start with an info dump about the Epstein drive and the colonization of the solar system. Not very interesting from me since I already got the history from Mr Epstein himself. More interesting to learn about the population of the different moons. How are there so many people? In our present day, most countries have only about 2 children per woman, and if that trend keeps going our population rise will pewter out at about 9 billion. But in this scenario of the future it seems to have exploded again. Those belters must be breeding like rabbits.

Quote

One moon of Uranus sported five thousand, the farthest outpost of human civilization, at least until the Mormons finished their generation ship and headed for the stars and freedom from procreation restrictions.

I hadn't thought about that particular culture clash. Good luck doing unrestricted population growth on a generation ship though. There's only going to be a finite amount of resources on board.

Then we meet Naomi Nagata, who's almost two meters tall (yay for SI units). No surprise there, I already knew all Belters are tall and thin in the books. The rest is mostly similar introduction as in the show, except without any sexy time between Holden and Ade. Also, Book-McDowel is nicer than in the show, he doesn't ignore the distress call. I assume he ends up just as dead anyway. There's also an assistant who's weirdly described (like a hatchet shark?) but she'll also be dead soon so I don't really care about her. Then the chapter is over. They're really short!

Chapter Two: Miller
Miller and Havelock are interrogating a prostitute about some fight. I was a bit thrown of by not getting any translation to the Belter creol. Miller understands it and we're in his head! But later he explains it to Havelock. There's some nice world building about Ceres. This is what I liked most about that part of the story in the show, just getting all the details of life on the station thrown at you. Then Miller and Havelock get back to the station and Shadid calls Miller into her office. I already get a very different vibe of Shadid in the book. In the show she felt like an Earther, flown in to do a few years work on Ceres, run the security and then get promoted elsewhere. In the show she's a belter and Miller wonders if she might sympathies with the OPA. She and Miller talk about criminals seeming to be missing and what might have caused it. Then he gets the case of the missing Julie which the Mao-Kwikowski Mercantile wants back. Another difference from the show is that Miller feels bad about taking the side job. He's done a lot of immoral things, but never kidnapping. Miller goes home and drinks moss whiskey (sounds like it would be terrible) and read about the case but concludes that it doesn't hold his interest and he's more concerned with the missing criminals. He also apparently has an ex-wife which he seems to think about a lot.

 

Some stray observations:

Quote

Maokwik might not have been one of the top ten corporations in the Belt, but it was certainly in the upper fifty. Originally, it had been a legal firm involved in the epic failure of the Venusian cloud cities.

Aw, what happen to the cloud cities? It seems in many ways they would be a more sensible option than colonizing Mars.

 

We learn everyone has their own personal febreze scent, except Miller who prefer the unembellished Ceres smell.

Quote

The circle of life on Ceres was so small you could see the curve.

Nice quote.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Chapter Three: Holden

Quote

After nearly two full days in high gravity, Holden's knees and back and neck ached.

Two full days! That's a long time. I assume it's not as extreme as the burns they do later in the story. But it still seems taxing, can people even leave and go to the bathroom? Can they sleep?

Holden reflects that Naomi, and belters in general, seem to bounce back faster from high-g burns. It does seem like it would be the other way around. Maybe if one experience fluxes in gravity in early childhood the body develops to cope with it.

They are now close enough to the Scopuli to reach it with a shuttle. Holden is disappointed that they got Alex rather than the other pilot. What's wrong with Alex? Holden, you're a bit overly judgmental for my taste.

Quote

A few minutes later, Holden glanced over to see Alex Kamal's thinning black hair appeared, followed bis round cheerful face, a deep brown that years of shipboard life couldn't pale.

First explicit skin color we get. Does that mean the rest of them are pale skinned? Maybe the authors just wanted to make sure people got how ethnicity and accents can be mixed around from what they might be expecting.

Quote

Flying teakettle was naval slang for flying on the maneuvering thrusters that used superheated steam for reaction mass.

These are the kind of details that is really hard to get into the show. When Cotyar talked about "teakettleing out of here" in the start of season three, there was no way show watchers could get that without book readers explanation.

The crew of the Knight takes of and reaches the Scopuli. Everything goes very similar to the show, except that they have some special salvage machine with them to use for pry and cut stuff lose from the ship. When Holden and Amos gets to the observation deck, Holden finds the fake beacon and decides they should head out from there.
 

Quote

His radio crackled to life on the outside channel, McDowell's voice filling his helmet. "Jim? We may have a problem out here."

Indeed you do!

 

Stray observation:

Quote

As they flew, Holden looked back up at the Knight: a blocky gray wedge with a drive cone stuck on the wide end. Like everything else humans built for space travel, it was designed to efficent, not pretty. That always made Holden a little sad. There should be room for aesthetics, even out here.

That's very idealistic, but I agree. It reminds me of some of the conversations between the Mars colonist in Kim Stanley Robinsson's book Red Mars. I believe Holden would get along very well with Arkady Bogdanov, one of the characters in that book .

Edited October 14, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Chapter Four: Miller

Miller gets a call from someone called Hasini, the assitant manager at the bar The Blue Frog. Every time we get a non show character I'll probably wonder if they'll be important or not. I know some of the show characters are barely in the books, so maybe the roll they play are be filled by various minor book characters. I don't think this Hasini is important though. He's just there to warn Miller that Havelock is bound for trouble. Miller heads down to the bar and finds Havelock drunk, upset about being treated different because he's an earther.

Quote

"I knew," Havelock said "when I took the Star Helix contract, I knew I'd have to work to fit in. I thought it'd be the same as anywhere, you know? You go, you get your chops busted for a while. Then, when they see you can take it, they treat you like one of the team. It's not like that here."

This is different from how I saw it in the show. As I wrote before, I thought Shadid was an earther. My impression was that most of the employees where earthers, that Miller was an exception. So Havelock's effort to understand and fit in with the Belter's seemed amiable, but not something that'd be required. It felt kinda like English policemen coming to work in Northern Ireland during the troubles, or maybe, going back further, British people going to run administration in one of the Brittish colonies, keeping their lives separated from the people they were to govern.

I've only read two chapters with Miller, but so far I like him better than I ever did show-Miller. The later was an ashole most of the time but I've not seen anything unlikable about book-Miller so far. He's very patient with Havelock and his sulkiness.

Miller takes Havelock to another bar, where all the cops go. After they've been there for a while Shadid sends a message to all of them. I was trying to think what kind of emergency it might be, racking my head to if anything happened in Ceres in the show at this point. I didn't even consider it would be about the message from Holden, since we haven't read about him sending it yet, nice to have the chapters overlap like that.

Stray observations:
Miller notes that Ceres don't dim the lights at night. But I find it interesting they even bother to assign day and night at all. Why does it matter? Why not just divide the day of in say three parts and call them shift 1, 2 and 3? Some people work in shift 1, some in 2, some in 3. Next shift is their time of, and next one they sleep. Why do they need one certain time assigned for sleeping?

Edited October 14, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Chapter Five: Holden

Holden and crew are trying to get back to the Cant as fast as they can. The thing everyone is freaked out about is a spot with a slight abnormality in temperature.

Quote

"Jim, a ship just appeared in that warm spot. It's radiating heat like a bastard," McDowel said. "Where the hell did that thing come from?"

The mysterious ship fires missiles and there's a surprisingly long conversations among the crew on how to deal with them. Nothing works and they prepare for impact. They all think the ship is just going to disable the Cant in order to take equipment and the crew as hostage. But when the torpedoes hit they realize they were nuclear. The ship is all gone. 

Quote

That can't be right, Holden's mind protested. That doesn't happen. Pirates don't nuke water haulers. No one wins. No one gets paid. And if you want to murder fifty people, walking into a restaurant with a machine gun is a lot easier. He wanted to shout it, scream at Alex that he was wrong. But he had to keep it together, I'm the old man now.

Holden is really angry and decides to punish the crew in mysterious ship by... sending them the ID of all the people they killed, ouch! Then he wants to chase the ship, but Naomi talks him out of it. Alex talks to Holden about stealth technology. I assumed this was a know technology in this universe but it seems here it's pretty new and not well known. They discuss who might have this tech and Mars seems the most likely candidate. Alex picks apart the transmitter they took from the Scopuli and finds a Martian battery inside. Holden broadcast that information to everyone.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Chapter Six: Miller
As they're heading for the station, Havelock asks Miller why it's such a big deal that a water hauler has gotten attacked. Miller gets annoyed at him and thinks that both he and James Holden can't understand it because they're Earthers. He tells Havelock a story about a guy who got killed for not swapping the air filters in a station, and the cops turned a blind eye to it. Another strike against show-Miller, he took bribes from a guy who didn't want to swap his air filters. Then the conversation turns to completely unknown topic for me, as Havelock brings up this viewpoint some people have that Belter society causes selective breeding. If I understand it correctly, the concept is that everyone who can't survive life in space (either for physical or social reasons) dies and this has made the Belters a different "breed" of humans. I can see how this view might be attractive to some people, Inners and Belters both, and also how destructive it would be.

They get to the station and listens to Shadid going through how they're going to keep the riot to a minimum. The Governor has apparently locked himself in the station equivalent of a bunker. He's instructed them not to round up any OPA operatives, and Miller wonders if the Governor is an OPA sympathizer as well. Everyone gets rounded into team, except Havelock who has to sit it out. When they go to get the riot gear it's all gone though. Shadid instruct them to get some Sniper equipment per unit instead. They head out to patrol.

Quote

They had just reached the junction of sectors ninteen and twenty when they heard screaming. Miller pulled his hand terminal out of his pocket, connected to the central surveillance network, and called up the security camera array. It took a few seconds to find it, a mob of fifthy or sixty civilians stretching almost all the way across the tunnels, traffic blocked on both sides. There were weapons being waved over heads. Knives, clubs. At least two pistols. Fist pumped in the air. And at the center of the crowd, a huge shirtless man was beating someone to death.

Miller waves his squad forward. It's a very tense situation, the snipers won't be able to take out enough people if they all attack. Miller and the shirtless man square off. Miller has one of the Sniper shoots his knee and then address the crowd about not fighting among themselves but rather save themselves for the real fight. The mob breaks apart. I don't really understand Miller's logic about this, they weren't fighting among themselves, but I suppose he reminded them of their long time priorities.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Holmbo
The post wasn't done

[Holmbo]

Maybe I won't do recaps for each chapter. I'm kinda enjoying it, but it might be unnecessary if everyone remembers the books. I'll write some overall impressions every five chapters or so instead.

So far, it's been pretty similar to the show overall. A bit more technology and much more back story courtesy of the inner monologues. The biggest difference to me is this theory of the natural selection of Belters. I know Dawes said in the show that Inners don't even see them as human anymore, but I thought that was a figure of speech, not that some people literally don't consider them part of the human race. Another aspect of this is that in the books Julie appears to have grown up on Luna. Physically, this should be very similar to growing up out in the Belt, the moon has only about a sixth of Earths gravity, but it doesn't appear to be considered so. There's more to set the Belters apart than growing up in lower gravity.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

I've now read up until chapter 10.

The events for the Roci crew (or soon to be Roci crew) fits better together in the books. The Donnager is explicitly coming to pick them up. Fred Jonson sends them a message, and explains his motives for it right away, he feels like someone is fanning the flames of the unrest and wants to figure out who. He sends them a code word to use later to show if they're not coerced by the Martians. Sadly it's not Donkeyballs. There's a lot of Fred backstory straight away, the advantage of the book medium. I wonder if all the world building and back story made the book too front loaded for some people.

The crew has to wait for 13 days for the Donnager to get there. I can see why the show invented the antenna problem. Having the only discomfort being body odor and eating gross rations is not very suspenseful.  I like it though. They have time to show the crew reacting and recuperating from the destruction  of the Cant and supporting each other. We learn more about their different back story too.

Quote

“Amos has been flying so long this is actually the third ship that’s gone down under him, if you can believe that.”

Hah. I like wording of the ships going down under him. Makes it sound like he was just jumping of from it as it was sinking into some unknown depths of space.

Naomi seems much more compassionate than in the show. Or maybe compassionate isn't right. More socially astute? I prefer the show character so far though, she seems more real to me. I was wondering about the crews ethnicity before and I got Naomi’s. Holden desribes she looks African, South American and only slightly Japanese. He also deduces that he has drunk to much because he finds her attractive. Ouch! There seems to be some general aversion about looks between Belters and Inners. Holden has commented several times about how weird Belters look and Miller notes he finds Havelock’s squashed together. They have a slight alien feel about one another.

Book-Amos also feels different than show-Amos. He's more opinionated. In the show he always feels very measured. Holden feels very similar. Shed too (as much as I knew him). With Alex I don't have much to go on yet.

At Ceres, Miller has no interest in Julie Mao until he starts to suspect she’s tied into the mystery about who attacked the Cant. I can’t tell if Miller is intuitive for suspecting there’s a connection between different events or if he’s just a conspiracy theorist that happens to be right this time. Shadid doesn’t seem at all interested in his suspicions. I like the summary of all the different conspiracy theories about the Cant. The book captures this feeling of constant communication and information exchange.

Havelock is going to go work for Protogen on Ganymede. That's a twist compared to the show! Maybe he will be skewered by OPA guys in the book too and that will interrupt his move.

Ceres seems much more like a dug rock in the books than the show. Miller's descriptions makes me imagine something like the blue line of the Stockholm subway system. Rocky tunnels that are painted.

Stray observations:
There’s a post juice crash? Seems nasty. It makes sense that they’d not get through it without side effects. I wonder if it can be addictive.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Quote

"The Donnager was ugly"

This again Holden? Maybe he should change career to ship designer, start making a difference. The description of the Donnager is nice though. 130 stories is crazy to imagine.

Quote

"Tiny touches shifted them as the maneuvering rockets fired. Holden knew that Alex was guiding them in, but he couldn't shake the feelings that the Donnager was swallowing them"

There's some difference in the story from the show I didn't expect. Only Holden is questioned by the Martians, and also they don't see any of the battle. I would have thought that the reason Holden was on the bridge during the battle in the show was because the authors had him there as a pov in the book. But they're all in the hold together, guessing what's happening. Their guesses are pretty accurate thanks to Alex. I feel like his only role in the books so far is to explain everything related to MCRN.

As the Donnager is loosing the fight, the martians comes to pick up the prisoners and take them of the ship. Things go pretty much the same as in the show. The fixing of Amos leg is so much more gruesome! I like that the medical stuff is a bit more messy, It's not just magic technology. Holden has to google how to set the bone straight and they fail their first try. There's also a nice moment when Holden attempts to saddle Naomi with the task of doctor and when she protests he realize that he's long taken for granted that she'll solve the things that he can't. They have worked together for years in the book. I'm not sure why the show decided to make them strangers.

In the Miller chapter I get Anderson Dawes and Octavia Muss, but they seem to share nothing but the name with their show versions so far. I always felt Octavias back story was thin in the show. They hint at a romantic history with Miller and her being a rebel daughter to rich parents, but I doubt they ever made up an actual backstory. She's like Teddy in Westworld. One character I enjoy more in the book than the show is Shadid. She seems so much scarier, someone that could get very personally ruthless if needed. Havelock gets of the station without any holes in his chest. Miller looks much deeper into the bigger mystery; where did the riot gear and the local gangsters go? He suspects it's all connected to the Cant and to Julies disappearance. He has reason to suspect that since he knows that Scopuli was the ship the Cant went to check on.

[Holmbo]

After the attack on the Canterbury, Mars show open hostility towards the entire Belt, not just the OPA. Both Mars and Belters seem to think they were the one that destroyed it and it ups the tension on each side. Star Helix is a Earth company though, so they don't have open riots against them, yet. Everything seem much more chaotic than in the show. Shaddid is cooperating with Dawes openly. In the show I got the impression it was her personal initiative to align with OPA but in the book it seems sanctioned from above. Especially later, when Earth decide to pull out and leave the station ungoverned. I have no help from the show in understanding their reasoning for this.

Shaddid orders Miller to give up the case, and he realizes she gave it to him because she didn't want it solved. He goes into a bit of a breakdown as he realizes he's not actually good at his job. In the show he always knew this, or maybe he thought he could be good if he cared. Book Miller does care and that made my estimate of him go up, but I suppose it wasn't enough. Miller is really at the bottom but still can't stop himself from looking into the bigger mystery. Then Shaddid fires him, and it's not even because of his insistence to keep investigating Julie (at least she doesn't mention it directly), he just isn't competent and reliable enough.

Quote

"The lights shifted into and out of his field of view. He wondered if that was what it would be like to look at the stars. He'd never looked up at the sky."

He's lived his whole life in space and never seen the stars? That's tragic!

 

In Holden's chapters I find out that they do have just as magic medical technology on the ship in the book as the show. It's just that they didn't know until after they had set Amos leg. Holden suggest they take up Fred's offer of hospitality and everyone agrees. No protest from Naomi. It seems a bit weird to me how fast they decide to keep the Tachi. I feel like there should be more freak outs from them about becoming outlaws. In the show everyone is more tense and unhappy about the situation they're in.

I get some back story on Tycho station. I never understood before it's movable. That's really cool. I also get my most pressing previous question answered. What went wrong with the Venusian cloud cities? I'm happy to learn it was not technical problems that made them fail, but just conflicts over the development rights. It seems legal bureaucracy is only more terrible in the future.

They meet Fred, it's less open hostility between them than in the show, but Holden is still very on guard. Fred tells them they're safe on his station because he makes large campaign contributions to politicians at Earth and Mars. You'd think Earth and Mars would have laws against extra terrestrial (and extra Martial) donations. Maybe it goes through a third party.

[Holmbo]

The crew is taking a breather from all the intensity by partying at Tycho station.

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”Like all professional sailors, Holden had sometimes ended long flights by drinking himself into a stupor. More than once he’d wandered into a brothel and left only when they threw him out with an emtied account, a sore groin, and a prostate as dry as the Sahara desert. So when Amos staggered into his room after three days on station, Holden knew exactly what the big mechanic felt like.”

I wouldn’t have thought Holden went to hookers. Not because it’s necessarily immoral, the feminist jury is still out on that one, but because he’d find it fake.

The others want to hang out at Tycho and wait for the trial Fred is planning to orchestrate for the ships that blew up the Cant and the Donnager, but Holden is impatient. He doesn’t want to just sit around the station and do nothing. Fred ask to borrow their ship to pick someone up from Eros but Holden refuses and offers to go himself, which Fred grudgingly accepts. There’s a lot more formal details in the book than the show, like the legalities of Fred hiring Holden as an exclusive independent contractor, and that Tycho station has a boss above Fred.

Miller is happy to leave Ceres. I have some more thoughts about his feelings but I’ll save it for my next post, I’m a bit ahead in my reading compared to my commentary. Miller meets Semi, who’s just an acquaintance rather than a childhood friend. Miller knows (or rather suspects) that Holden is coming and waits for him. This makes more sense than the show when they both coincidentally happen to come to the hotel at the same time, but the later is also more fun, because neither knows the other is going to be there. I wonder if the assault team was sent by Earth in the book too.

Miller meets Holden and co the same way as in the show. He doesn’t know why they’ve gone to the hotel though, since he followed them rather than the Anubis shuttle. After they’ve found Julie Miller tries to convince Holden to let him go with them to find out who killed her.

[Holmbo]

I'm back after some interruption.

The crew get a message from Tycho station that warns them people know they’re here (too late) and that they’ve intercepted some message that “stage three” is about to begin on Eros. Shortly after, a public awareness announcement goes out that Eros is in emergency lock down. When Miller sees the security guards he realizes they are the thugs from Ceres dressed in the missing riot gear. They all hide in the maintenance tunnel. Naomi offers up no OPA knowledge about them. My guess is that she has the same back story in the books as the show, but the writers didn’t make it up until a later book. Holden and Miller wants to check out what’s happening. Holden tells Naomi for them to leave if they’re not back by three hours. Here I got tripped up by the book to show difference, I just assumed he meant they’d meet back at the ship, since that’s how it is in the show. It wasn't until later I realized they were meeting back up at the same spot.

Holden and Miller gets one of the guards to open up a radiation shelter, get radiated and need to hurry back to the ship for medication. They meet two more thug cops herding people to the shelters. Miller shots the criminals and tells the other to hide. This make him think back to early in his career, when he first killed someone. I will collect all his reminiscing to a separate Miller analysis following this post.

Holden and Miller (maybe I should just call them H&M to save time) meet some more guards.
 

Quote

“The beginning of an idea moved in the back of Miller’s mind as he watched the two approach. Killing them and taking their gear wouldn’t work. There was nothing like scorch marks and blood to make it clear something had happened. But...”

The show does exactly what Miller claims wouldn't work. :D The authors seem to be very ok with book to show changes in general but I can’t imagine they wouldn’t find that one at least a little sour. Instead Miller shoot one of the guys, interrogates the other and then shoots him in the stomach. H&M then pretends to carry the wounded cop to medical in order to get passed the other cops.

They get back to the right maintenance tunnel five minutes too late. Holden is not worried about it, but when he opens it, the rest of the crew has left. This is different from the show and I wonder how it will play out. Will H&M have to race the others to the ship to keep them from leaving without them? Or will the crew wait for them on the ship? It’s an interesting twist to the standard narrative when someone is told to leave and stays to wait anyway. The crew was told to leave and they did. We won’t hear their story until H&M gets back their POV back to them.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Miller-analysis time
 

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“It had happened fast. The perp had come out of the hole with a gun in one hand, dragging a woman by the hair with the other. Miller’s partner, a ten-year veteran named Carson, had shouted out the warning. The perp had turned, swinging the gun out at arm’s length like a stuntman in a video.
All through training, the instructors had said that you couldn’t know what you’d do until the moment came. Killing another human being was hard. Some people couldn’t. The perp’s gun came around; the gunman dropped the woman and shouted. It turned out that, for Miller at least, it wasn’t all that hard. Afterward, he’d been through the mandatory counseling. He’d cried. He’d suffered the nightmares and the shakes and all the things that cops suffered quietly and didn’t talk about.. But even then, it seemed to be happening at a distance, like he’s gotten too drunk and was watching himself throw up. It was just a physical reaction. It would pass.”

With all the advancements in medical technology you’d think mental health awareness would be more advanced.
 

Quote

“When, Miller wondered, does someone stop being human? […]
Somewhere along the line he’d lost himself.
He wanted to think it had been finding Julie, seeing what had happened to her, but that was only because it seemed like the sentimental moment. The truth was his decisions before then – leaving Ceres to go on a wild hunt for Julie, drinking himself out of a career, remaining a cop for even a day after that first kill all those years earlier – none of them seemed to make sense, viewed objectively. He’d lost a marriage to a woman he’d loved once. He’d lived hip deep in the worst humanity had to offer. He’d learned firsthand that he was capable of killing another human being. And nowhere along the line could he say that there, at that moment, he had been a sane, whole man, and that afterward, he hadn’t.”

I didn’t see Miller as not sane at Ceres. Sure, he made his decisions in a very logically detached way. Havelock is my partner and therefore I should cheer him up, etc. That’s not necessarily unhealthy. Some people prefer to rely more on logic than emotions for their decisions. It wasn’t until at the shuttle ride to Eros that I realized he was too detached. He tried to think about something he’d miss about Ceres and couldn’t think of anything. That’s the risk of relying too much on logic over emotion, you might be miserable without even realizing it.

Miller also summarizes where Julie ties into all this.

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“This is why he had searched for her. Julie had become the part of him that was capable of human feeling. The symbol of what he could have been if he hadn’t been this.”

I remember having a hard time understanding Miller's obsession with Julie in the show. It seems like the things she stood for was things he mocked in others, like the causes of the OPA or Havelock's attempt at connecting with the Belters. User Lion made a good comment in the discussion of the end of season one, that helped me make sense of it.

Quote

 

The way I'm reading it is that Julie represents what he never became and he feels a connection with that.  She's someone who gave the bird to where she came from in order to become something different and fight for something greater than she is. [...] It was more like an almost juvenile hope that Julie turns out ok since she had become this proxy for his own failed hopes and dreams.  If she was ok, then there's still hope.

 

 There are some difference to the show vs book interpretation but I have a hard time summarizing it succinctly. I'll have to come back to it by the end of the book and see if I can make some sense of his entire arc instead.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Holmbo
formating

[Holmbo]

A riot breaks out in the casino level as H&M goes through it. One of the thugs kill a youth which makes Holden break and attack him. He forgets Millers advice about the armor and just shots him in the chest. Miller saves him from getting killed. The thugs are blocking anyone from leaving the casino level and all H&M can do is sit and wait. I wonder how the rest of the crew got passed the guards. Then a tube car arrives.

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The door opened, and the first zombies appeared. Men and women, their eyes glassy and their muscles slack, stumbled through the open door.

Vomit-zombies Miller calls them. That's a silly name.

H&M are both really feeling the effects of the radiation. I love how much detailed descriptions of their symptoms there is. It's much more frightening than the vomit-zombies IMO.

Quote

His knees and spine ached badly. The click in his lungs was getting worse. His belly made a soft, complicated noise that would have been concerning under different circumstances.

They meet a vomit-zombie up close and Miller wants to shoot him but Holden stops him. At this point I'm not sure if I should read Holden as just idealistic or if he's unhinged. He must know that person is not getting out of this situation alive.

They see the thugs arguing with the Protogen personnel.

Quote

“Want to guess what the argument is about?” Miller asked
“Hey, can we get a ride too?” Holden said mockingly with a Ceres accent. “Uh, no we need you guys to stay there and, uh keep an eye on things, which we promise will be totally safe and absolutely not involving you turning into vomit zombies.”

It is impossible for me to imagine show-Holden saying those lines :D He's way to serious for that.

The people begin firing on each other and now H&M actually does take the cop gear to dress up in after all. They get through the fire but are both shot in the process. They’re really getting busted up.

Quote

Holden punched the button for the Roccinante’s berth and waited for the elevator to stop at a black gray airlock door with no ship beyond it. That would be when he finally had permission to lay down on the floor and die. He looked forward to that moment when his exertions could end with a relief that would have surprised him, if he’d still been capable of surprise.

He doesn't meet a closed airlock though but rather Amos with a gun.

I’m surprised this was all there was to the H&M adventures on Eros. I saw readers going on about how much more gruesome Eros was in the books and the show didn’t catch it. But to me it seemed about the same. I had been expecting some zombie fighting at the very least.

[Holmbo]

H&M wakes up in the infirmary and I realize now it’s time for the Holden Naomi relationship talk I’ve seen several book readers refer to. Nice touch to show it through Miller’s POV.

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“I’m in love with you, Naomi,” Holden said
“No, sir” she said “You aren’t.”

Naomi reveals to Holden that she’s been in love with him for several years but he’s never given her any attention until she was the only woman around. She’s also seen him “fall in love” with countless other women on the Cant, only to end it when the initial infatuation had faded. Miller unwillingly interrupts them with a couching fit.

I think Naomi is right to be very suspicious of Holdens feelings. In fact I don’t really see how she can ever want to get into a relationship with him when she can’t trust him to actually know how he feels about her. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Naomi tells Miller the medical status. She mentions Shed, I keep forgetting that he was actually a medic in the book and not just faking it. They also break the news to him that Eros is dead. No one else is getting out of there.

Miller again thinks about his presumed romantic love for Julie. It seems to me book Miller and book Holden have the same problem; being unable to interpret if their feelings are romantic or not. This seem like an unusual problem to me, or maybe it’s a guy thing which I as a woman is unfamiliar with? If I were to make some gender analysis speculation I suppose men could be more prone to imagining romantic feelings, since they don't have a lot of other socially acceptable outlets for strong emotions or cravings of intimacy.

Later on Miller tries to make sure Holden doesn’t go down the same path as him, going numb about killing people.

Quote

“Does it go away?”
Sometimes, Miller thought.
“No,” He said “Not if you still go a soul.”

Then Miller, for some to me inexplicable reason, also feel qualified to give Holden relationship advice. Maybe you should stick to the emotional health advices Miller.

There wasn’t any explanation about how the rest of the crew got out of Eros. Or why they decided to wait for Holden in the ship.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

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For five more days, Holden and Miller lay on their backs in the sick bay while the solar system burned down around them.

The books keep telling me there’s a massive war going on, ever since Holden made his first announcement, but I don’t really see it. It seems more like constant civil unrest with minor skirmishes. Miller calls it “the single largest war in human history.” That’s not what it looks like to me. Wouldn’t that entail large ship battles, destruction of gigantic infrastructures and large civilian casualties? Some of that does come next chapter, but I don’t feel like it was there before. That’s not to say things are good.

Quote

The threats and accusations, all set to the constant human background noise of war drums, moved on. Eros had been a tragedy and a crime, but it was finished, and there were new dangers popping up in every corner of human space.

Aint that topical?

Things are awkward between Holden and Naomi. I’m not sad about the show skipping that particular drama, I’ve never been much for this will they won’t they stuff. Though, maybe if I didn’t know where it will end up eventually I would find it more intriguing.

Fred sends the data from the Donnager fight to the crew and Holden, Naomi and Miller piece out that it shows the drives of the attacking ships were most likely built on earth and that Mars regards this as very sensitive information. Holden decides to just beam it all out system wide, which infuriates Miller enough to throw a coffee bulb at him. I forgot how mad Miller was at Holden before they even met, because he spread the info about the Martian battery making everyone riot. It makes sense that he would be even madder when Holden does the same thing again. Holden doesn’t seem faced by his anger and arguments though. He argues that he’s just sharing the facts and this will help someone eventually figuring it out. But that doesn’t address Miller’s concern that he’s spreading intentionally misleading facts, intended to start chaos. I think Holden takes to lightly at destabilizing a cold war situation.

The crew get to the Anubis (but I don’t think we learn its name). We find out Miller has done space walks before, even though he said earlier he’d never seen the stars, how does that fit together?

The description of the PM covering the reactor is crazy! Body parts all melded together with other things. I partly wish we could have gotten that in the show, it seems more scary, but maybe it wouldn’t have worked, it’s hard to imagine exactly how it would look. Amos is very unconcerned about all this. It’s the most similar to show-Amos I've seen him so far.

The crew finds out the same things as in the show. There's more information about Phoebe and the Protomolecule which is interesting.

By the end of the chapter, Earth and Mars have started fighting each other over the accusations that Earth built the stealth ships. It ends with Earth blowing up Deimos and several space ships. Now, that seems like war to me.

[Holmbo]

H&M has to get complicated treatments where they pop pills and get their blood cleaned. That’s more serious than just having some shot stuck to their arms like in the show. What if they get stuck somewhere where they can’t get the treatment? Holden wants to broadcast the data files from the Anubis. Miller puts his foot down against it saying two times is more than enough. They argue about how big Holdens roll has been in this conflict that has erupted. I think Miller has the strongest case, but Holden makes a solid argument that that anything could have set of the war. I suppose saying he caused it is like saying Gavrilo Princip caused world war one by assassinating Franz Ferdinand. There were so many other factors pushing for war. Miller doesn’t have everything figured out either, he didn’t even realize Earth and Mars have hostility towards each other.

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“You’ve got the inner planets all divided up too,” Miller said.
Holden tilted his head.
“Earth has always hated Mars,” Holden said like he was reporting that water was wet. “When I was in the navy, we ran projections for this. Battle plans if Earth and Mars ever really got into it. Earth loses. Unless they hit first, hit hard and don’t let up, Earth just plain loses.”
Maybe it was the distance. Maybe it was the failure of imagination. Miller had never seen the inner planets as divided.

In the end Holden decides not to broadcast the information and that they’ll head for Tycho. On the way there, they cook lasagna together. That’s nice that they do a shared activity. Yet, I kinda dislike it because there’s less Alex than in the show. ;)

When they get to Tycho, Fred doesn’t try to take the sample from Holden. Maybe that comes up later. I really like Fred’s scenes in the book. He’s very impressive, and the way he leads the assault team later gives him a much more active roll than in the show.

Miller gets the coordinates for the station from Havelock, that’s very lucky for him. I don’t remember how they found it in the show, some kind of triangulating of signals maybe? There’s a funny scene where Miller doesn't know about Fred's past and is all “do you have what it takes” to Fred, regarding taking the station. And then he finds out he’s “that Fred” and feels like an idiot. He admits it freely too. I like book Miller’s lack of ego.

After that there’s also a really touching scene were Miller is leaving the ship to join the assault team and as he’s saying goodbye to Holden he realize Holden expects him to return. Holden thinks it’s so obvious he doesn’t even need to tell him.

Then the battle start. There are two stealth ships! Alex makes weird maneuvers but the ship is hit anyway in the process of destroying the second ship. Holden gets knocked out and as he comes to Alex confirms that the second ship is destroyed.
 

Quote

“Yeah, cap, he’s dead. About half a dozen of his rounds actually hit the Roci. Looks like they went through us from bow to stern. That’s anti-spalling webbing on the bulkhead really keeps the shrapnel down, doesn’t it?”
Alex voice had started shaking. He meant We should all be dead.

The next chapter covers the assault. Miller meets Diogo. There’s a really different feel to the attack in the book compared to the show. There are armed guards in the book, and the whole station is described as very fancy, with carpets and nice lighting. In the show it’s purely utilitarian, and feels more temporary. They get to the command center and cut their way through.

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One of the men – tall as a Belter, but built solid as a man in full gravity – sighed. He wore a good suit, linen and raw silk, without the lines and folds that spoke of computer tailoring.
“Do what they say” The linen suit said. He sounded peeved, but not frightened.

As Fred enters the command center, Miller thinks he’s not gotten absolution for what he did at Andersson station.

Spoiler

Watching the show I always considered the launch of the Navoo to push Eros into the sun as his redemption. He threw away his career to do the right thing. Of course he landed on his feet, but still he did risk everything.

Dresden makes his case to everyone about it all being for “the greater good” and such things.

Quote

The room was silent for a moment. Holden felt his certainty slip. He hated everything about Dresden’s argument, but he couldn’t see his way past it. He knew in his bones that something was dead wrong, but he couldn’t find the words.

What happens then? I'll better read the next chapter to find out ;)

Isn't it weird that they're not having more of an existential crisis to dealing with this thing that's actually alien life? If it were me I'd not stop gaping for like months after learning about this. I'd probably rethink all my priorities and choices for everything in my life.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Holmbo

[Holmbo]

Miller shots Dresden. Holden gets furious with him, questions his humanity and throws him out of the Roci crew.

Quote

Are you even human anymore?”
All posthuman meant, literally speaking, was what you were when you weren’t human anymore. Protmolecule aside, Dresden and his Mengleas-Ghengis-Khan self rightous fantasies aside, Miller thought that maybe he’d been ahead of the curve all along. Maybe he’d been posthuman for years. He was vaguely aware that he was weeping. It didn’t mean anything.

Why is Miller so insistent on convincing himself he’s not human? He doesn’t seem inhumane to me. To me his main problem seem to be that he’s too detached from his emotions. He was miserable on Ceres but since he had no way of recognizing that, he couldn’t change it. And he still can’t, because he hasn’t made any attempt to really be cognoscente of his feelings. Sure, he’s done a lot of soul searching, but it’s just logical analysis. In an earlier chapter he thinks that he would have figured out his problem more quickly if it was someone elses.

Miller falls into a slumber and dreams about trying to save Holden, Amos and Naomi from a Dresden PM-monster. I notice Alex is not included in his concern. There’s basically no Alex in this book! I feel like Shed has gotten more character development than him.

Back at the Tycho station there’s some general downtime when the Rocci gets fixed and Miller is kinda aimless. There’s a lot more minutia with book Miller than in the show, him sitting around and watching the news, trying to make right with Naomi and Amos and later Holden, contemplating suicide, going for a job interview.

In the Holden chapter we meet Sam who is fixing the Roci. I’ve seen book readers mention her as a great character, so I was curious, but we don’t get more than an introduction. Holden is more charming in the books. The show never showed him complimenting people or trying to joke around with them.

Later Holden things about all that has happened so far:

Quote

Oh, and aliens. Aliens that had tried to take over the earth two billion years ago and failed because Saturn got in the way. Can’t forget the aliens. His brain still hadn’t figured out a way to process that, so it kept trying to pretend it didn’t exist.

Ha! My question from last chapter was addressed.

Holden watches the news. It’s strange to me how much they seem to rely on news feed so far into the future. You’d think they’d some more efficient way to acquire updates, like an AI-secretary making summaries of all relevant information. I suppose part of the function of the news is to just provide “entertainment”. Information can be addictive and I suppose both Holden and Miller needs their info fixes.

Miller comes to talk to him and I’m not sure why. Did he want to explain himself? To get Holden to think better of him?

When Holden talks to Naomi later, she thinks that Miller wanted Holden to absolve him. She tells him that she thinks Miller did the right thing, and then asks Holden to come to her room with her. Holden’s mind is blown by this. Naomi states that she’s been clear about how she feels about him. I honestly don’t find this subplot very interesting, Possibly because the whole conflict of it is all in Holden’s mind.

Miller is hotbunking with Diogo. A knew term for me to learn. Fred payed Miller for his part in the attack, but apparently not enough for him to afford someplace to live. How much does whiskey and showers cost anyway at this station? I suppose water is precious. They probably have those recycling showers that just pump the same water around several times though.

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All he needed was a way to remake himself. To start over and be someone different from who’d he’d been.

Well, that’s simple.

Eros starts talking:

Quote

At first, the sound was nothing – electric squeals and a wild fluting static. Then, maybe somewhere deep in the back of it, music. A chorus of violas churning away together in a long, distant crescendo. And then, as clear as if someone were speaking into a microphone, a voice. “Rabbits and hamsters, Ecologically unstabilizing and round and blue as moonbeams. August.

I like this mixing of sound. It's like the PM is deconstructing language and concepts as well as bodies.

Miller meets with Fred to ask him for a job. Fred agrees and they start to talk about what to do about Eros.

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Maybe Miller had gotten it wrong from the start, and the divide between the Belt and the inner planets was something besides politics and resource management. He knew aswell as anyone that the Belt offered a harder, more dangerous life than Mars or Earth provided. And yet it called these people – the best people – out of humainty’s gravity wells to cast themselves into the darkness.
The impulse to explore, to stretch, to leave home. To go as far as possible out into the universe. And now that Protogen and Eros offered the chance to become gods, to recreate humanity into beings that could go beyond merely human hopes and dreams, it occured to Miller how hard it would be for men like Fred to turn that temptation away.

Good point. Though, I’m not sure how Miller classifies who’s “the best” people. The most ambitious? Competent? I’m sure Earth and Mars have plenty of ambitious, competent people doing inspiring things down there too.

Together Miller and Fred works out that they can’t have Eros keep floating around. Sooner or later Earth or Mars will come for it and Fred won’t be able to keep them away. Miller suggests using the Nauvoo to ram it into the sun.

Quote

Fred’s breath grew slow and deep, his gaze flickering as if he were reading something in the air that only he could see. Miller didn’t interupt, even when the silence got heavy. It was almost a minute later that Fred let out a short, percussive breath.
“The Mormons are going to be pissed,” he said.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Holmbo

[mac123x]

On 4/20/2018 at 4:26 PM, SmithW6079 said:

To follow up on my comment from February: I finished "Cibola Burn," and I found it was as disappointing as "Abaddon's Gate" (but for different reasons). I had said that I didn't mind the expansion (as it were) into "space opera," but "Cibola Burn" was just dreadful. The "bad guy" was so stereotypical that he should have just twirled his mustache as he tied the heroine to the railroad tracks.

I was frustrated with the disaster-porn of book 3, and when it continued in book 4 I almost couldn't finish.  I gave up.  Unless I run out of other things to read I don't see myself getting book 5.

On 4/20/2018 at 4:57 PM, marinw said:

This is another example about how The Expanse is one of those rare instances where the TV adaptation is better than the source material.

I agree.  I saw the season 3 finale recently, and the character of Ashford was so much better in the show than the book.  In the book, his motivations were entirely driven by his ego.  The show gave him a good reason to do what he was doing -- the station was powering up for an extermination event.  His actions made sense.

[whiporee]

All right.  Just finished it. For anyone thinking of reading how this all ends — if it all ends — I can say it’s a fast, good read and worth the wait.  It’s not high literature, but hell, at least we got an end. A lot more than Fire and Ice fans can say 😀

I can see a lot that was cinematized — creating scenes that will be cool to see — but it has a lot of neat stuff in it, too. Everyone plays true to form. Maybe all of them are a bit too Mary Sue, but that was probably required for a story that got so big so fast.  

I’ll wait a while before talking about it, because most people aren’t on vacation and have nothing to do but sit by a pool and read.  But if you’ve been a fan of the books, you’ll probably like this one, too. 

[MissLucas]

Well, Amazon just sent me the delivery notification. Can't wait! I wish we could have a separate thread to discuss it without having to deal with spoiler tags.

[raven]

15 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I wish we could have a separate thread to discuss it without having to deal with spoiler tags.

I just got mine today so if enough people comment on it, we can try a separate thread.  I had read the first four chapters - they're available online - and am intrigued.

[marinw]

* Orders from Library *

I didn't even know this was out! Thanks/

[Browser26]

I think there is one more book in the series though. 

https://www.space.com/tiamats-wrath-expanse-book-released.html

I will probably start the book next week (darn real life). The authors are planning a three book series not set in the Expanse world so at least we will have another series to look forward to. 

[ApathyMonger]

For those who haven't read it yet, I'd recommend reading the Strange Dogs novella from 2017 before Tiamat's Wrath. Probably not essential, but it sets up some stuff that would be otherwise confusing in Tiamat's Wrath.

[whiporee]

Yeah, I had thought that TW was the last book -- and it could be, because they're all getting old -- but I guess they want to 

Spoiler

take on God or something in the last one. I don't know how they think they could battle the folks who could take out entire systems, but they certainly left a cliifhanger with the last conversation. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by whiporee