Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[Frozendiva]

13 minutes ago, A.J. said:

Isn't Eli much too young and lacking in the experience department for that position?   Plus he admitted how he doesn't always follow the rules. 

Hope murdered Stefano and Rafe helped to cover it up. The odds are even. JJ shouldn't even have made detective til he had 10 years police experience. Who is left?

[MsTree]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

That's okay. I'm used to be 'the cheese that stands alone'.

SueB, you're not alone...so share the cheese! ;-)

[SueB]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

SueB, you're not alone...so share the cheese! ;-)

Excellent!  I have Chedder, Brie, and a lovely Wensleydale w/ Cranberries.  Make your pick!

[Sandman]

10 minutes ago, SueB said:

 I have Chedder, Brie, and a lovely Wensleydale w/ Cranberries.  Make your pick!

Heaven help me, I swear at first glance I thought these were portmanteau relationship names, too! ("'Brie'? Who's 'Brie'? Brady and ... self-pity? Nope. Oh, wait...")

Edited September 20, 2017 by Sandman

[buffynut]

13 hours ago, SueB said:

Just popping in (as I randomly did one time before):

Welcome back.  Hope you pop in more regularly.

11 hours ago, boes said:

BTW, any mention of what's happened to Caroline?  I miss seeing Peggy McKay.

I see someone else already answered about Caroline. About Peggy McKay, Jason47 posted on the other site a while ago that he'd gotten a message from Peggy's niece, I believe.  Peggy had surgery some time ago and wasn't able to work for a while. Then, I believe, the show had a storyline for her, but she still wasn't quite ready to go back.  And then when she was ready to go back to work, she let them know, but never got called in.  Hopefully the show will bring her back sometime, if only to say good-bye to Salem and head back to LA for good.  

10 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Can't see Commissioner Hope or Rafe. Eli would be a better choice. He also has FBI connections.

I could handle Commissioner Eli before Hope or Rafe.  Although Eli was fired by the FBI for bad attitude, or whatever it was, at least he didn't murder someone, cover it up and frame another for the crime.  

[Rowan]

I like that Nicole can never seem to get out of her own way to happiness. Somewhere inside she already knows this Brady thing is not going to work out. It's why she hesitated to go there  at first, but she can't allow herself to be alone. 

She's attracted to Eric. She always has been. Except for the the whole drunk driving killing her fiancé, she has wanted this man desperately. She can't stay away. 

I never really bought into the Daniel/Nicole love story. I always felt that since the whole town loved him and thought he was a a saint, him showing interest in her made her feel like she was worth something, too. 

I'm glad she has her baby. I honestly wish that she'd just go ahead and jump Eric, infuriating an increasingly unstable Brady and cause him to go full on oldschool Victor. He'd blackmail her with the Deimos crap, lose the respect of the townsfolk, feel further isolated and go onto embrace his darker tendencies. Damn, I'd totally be down for that.

[Apprentice79]

34 minutes ago, Rowan said:

I like that Nicole can never seem to get out of her own way to happiness. Somewhere inside she already knows this Brady thing is not going to work out. It's why she hesitated to go there  at first, but she can't allow herself to be alone. 

She's attracted to Eric. She always has been. Except for the the whole drunk driving killing her fiancé, she has wanted this man desperately. She can't stay away. 

I never really bought into the Daniel/Nicole love story. I always felt that since the whole town loved him and thought he was a a saint, him showing interest in her made her feel like she was worth something, too. 

I'm glad she has her baby. I honestly wish that she'd just go ahead and jump Eric, infuriating an increasingly unstable Brady and cause him to go full on oldschool Victor. He'd blackmail her with the Deimos crap, lose the respect of the townsfolk, feel further isolated and go onto embrace his darker tendencies. Damn, I'd totally be down for that.

Brady should  be an anti-hero. It reminds  a bit of Sami/Carrie, except it is with the brothers, this time. Brady going after Eric would put Marlena/John in a bind.  How would Sami react to Brady going after her twin?  Given her own history with Carrie, she would really be a hypocrite to throw stones at Brady.  

Edited September 20, 2017 by Apprentice79

[nilyank]

5 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

How would Sami react to Brady going after her twin?  Given her own history with Carrie, she would really be a hypocrite to throw stones at Brady.  

Sami would blame Nicole for pitting her brothers against one another. She has never wanted Nicole involved with her brothers once Nicole took Kate bribe to marry Lucas and breaking Eric's heart.

[Apprentice79]

Just now, nilyank said:

Sami would blame Nicole for pitting her brothers against one another. She has never wanted Nicole involved with her brothers once Nicole took Kate bribe to marry Lucas and breaking Eric's heart.

True, that type of family drama with John and Marlena would be rooted in history.  It should involve their whole brood...Carrie and Belle should be a part of this as well...

[rcc]

I've always wanted Nicole with Eric but now I like her with Brady and their family together. This show doesn't make it easy too root for any couple.

[DisneyBoy]

Poor Eric still acts like a twelve year old getting his first erection every time Nicole is nearby.

These two have already slept together presumably dozens of times in their teens and twenties and even gotten engaged...yet they still look at one another as the forbidden fruit. How is that possible?

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I honestly wish that she'd just go ahead and jump Eric, infuriating an increasingly unstable Brady and cause him to go full on oldschool Victor. He'd blackmail her with the Deimos crap, lose the respect of the townsfolk, feel further isolated and go onto embrace his darker tendencies.

I don't enjoy Eric Marstoff in "mean guy" mode, but otherwise agree with your assessment. I think that's where we are headed.

Frankly though, the unending Bristen fallout gave me two years of angry Brady and that was quite enough for me. I don't want him as a villain in his current form.

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Hopefully the show will bring her back sometime, if only to say good-bye to Salem and head back to LA for good.

If Peggy is able to film even a few scenes in her current condition, Ron would be wise to do so. We don't want another Joe M situation.

Is anyone else really disappointed in Chloe for spilling Eric's personal thoughts to Brady? She was really pushing him to confide in her and had to know how dangerous his admission was. *slaps forehead*

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I never really bought into the Daniel/Nicole love story. I always felt that since the whole town loved him and thought he was a a saint, him showing interest in her made her feel like she was worth something, too.

That's exactly how I felt about it too! I wonder if the producers understand that's how it all played to us. I loved when Xander basically laughed at the Danicole relationship and said it was Eric that had always been her hero. Nicole looked super uncomfortable when he said it. My personal take is that she knows she chose wrong when pursuing the "safer" choice of Daniel so as to put a stop to her complex relationship with Eric and instead get the boost of being Mrs Dr Jonas. She knows it lead Eric to turn to drinking. In a roundabout way she might even feel like she got Daniel killed.

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I could handle Commissioner Eli before Hope or Rafe.  Although Eli was fired by the FBI for bad attitude, or whatever it was, at least he didn't murder someone, cover it up and frame another for the crime.

Ditto. Please do not put Hope or Rafe in charge of nuthin. Heaven forbid!

I caught a brief mention of EJ and Sami's wedding today. I thought Abigail was squirming because of her affair with him but apparently she was there at their church wedding I never saw..? What happened that time? (I know EJ was arrested during his last wedding but that was in the DiMera backyard).

Edited September 20, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[pau]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

Sami would blame Nicole for pitting her brothers against one another. She has never wanted Nicole involved with her brothers once Nicole took Kate bribe to marry Lucas and breaking Eric's heart.

And she would be right..however Sami has always been hypocritical concerning taking defense of some people no matter what : Will, Eric and yeah Marlena (this last one with some context..) firstly.. But Eric always put Nicole above her and i will never understand why..after all the shit Nicole did to Sami..Brady it is same : Nicole always comes first..but at least he was not really close to Sami..Eric is Sami's freaking twin for pete's sake !! 

I visit this board to know the context of this show before Sami's visit but seriously i dread it..all the propping for Eric/Nicole..ugh..

Edited September 20, 2017 by pau

[Rowan]

57 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Poor Eric still acts like a twelve year old getting his first erection every time Nicole is nearby.

These two have already slept together presumably dozens of times in their teens and twenties and even gotten engaged...yet they still look at one another as the forbidden fruit. How is that possible?

I don't enjoy Eric Marstoff in "mean guy" mode, but otherwise agree with your assessment. I think that's where we are headed.

Frankly though, the unending Bristen fallout gave me two years of angry Brady and that was quite enough for me. I don't want him as a villain in his current form.

 

GV and AZ certainly give their all to the UST, although they've certainly "resolved" it many times. They are both attractive people and I appreciate their commitment to the mutual sexual attraction the characters always seem to feel no matter how much they've hurt or disappointed one another.

I'd like Brady to go on and embrace the fact that he's an asshole even without the drinking. It's always his out. I wish they'd just commit to it, and then maybe EM could try and tone it down. Like, "screw it! I can't have nice things. So..". Just let him get totally disillusioned with everyone but Tate and be a cold, calculating douche then Theresa can come back and save his dumbass. I liked them. 

[A.J.]

19 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

He didn't so much leave as peter out. He was arrested when he was left holding some drugs by some other hooligans, and then JJ tried to cut him a plea bargain but Roman read him the riot act and reminded him he isn't the District Attorney and can't promise stuff like that. Rory ended up getting sentenced but first went over to the hotel where JJ was banging Gabi and punched him out. We never really got a follow-up to that scene which I found very odd. Maybe something was cut, like the convo they had after JJ picked himself up off the floor.

After that, he reappeared last fall (I think?) as a random internet date of Ciara's and was clearly high while they ate their food at Mandalay. She didn't swoon. Last time we saw him was when Hope and Rafe leaned on him for information about Deimos and he followed the guy and realized he was the one who bought a drug from him that ended up hurting Maggie. So the last time we saw him he was helpful to the good guys, but we haven't heard a peep about him since.

I remember that day he was helping Hope and Rafe but I never saw any of the other things mentioned.  Thanks a lot, DisneyBoy for the recap.  

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

These two have already slept together presumably dozens of times in their teens and twenties and even gotten engaged...yet they still look at one another as the forbidden fruit. How is that possible?

How is it possible, given their long intimacy, that Eric can pin these looks on Nicole that could warp a girder without her ever noticing?

[DisneyBoy]

Ha! Nicely put.

Tell me though....were Ericole each other's firsts?

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Thanks a lot, DisneyBoy for the recap.

Happy to help. I like Rory too.

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I'd like Brady to go on and embrace the fact that he's an asshole even without the drinking. It's always his out. I wish they'd just commit to it, and then maybe EM could try and tone it down. Like, "screw it! I can't have nice things. So..". Just let him get totally disillusioned with everyone but Tate and be a cold, calculating douche then Theresa can come back and save his dumbass. I liked them. 

Not a bad idea....

[Rowan]

Oh, also, the little mention of EJami, today, and Abby's somewhat uncomfortable reaction. I had to giggle.

Let's be honest. I mean, at the time, you were so terribly wrong, Abigail, but I can totally get why you did not pass on the oppurtunity. I imagine JS could be the downfall of many a woman. 

I've actually been looking forward to the show recently, instead seeing it in the DVR and feeling like it's just a bad habit I can't break. 

[pau]

9 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

 

Tell me though....were Ericole each other's firsts?

 

Nah Nicole already had a boyfriend when she came on Salem..but i think Eric was virgin..Nicole was already pretty experienced..her porn past aside..

[Silver Raven]

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Tell me though....were Ericole each other's firsts?

Nicole came to town running away from an old boyfriend. And Eric was in a brief relationship with Madison, played by LeeAnn Rimes.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Silver Raven

[pau]

16 minutes ago, Rowan said:

Oh, also, the little mention of EJami, today, and Abby's somewhat uncomfortable reaction. I had to giggle.

Let's be honest. I mean, at the time, you were so terribly wrong, Abigail, but I can totally get why you did not pass on the oppurtunity. 

 

'opportunity' ? Ugh.. she used threats and blackmail in order to score the guy..it was pathetic..and i don't even want to think about this abomination..haha.

[Rowan]

Just now, pau said:

'opportunity' ? Ugh.. she used threats and blackmail in order to score the guy..it was pathetic..and i don't even want to think about this abomination..haha.

I don't think that first smooch in the cabin was all that coerced. He may have simply been at a loss as how to contain her and used his masculine persuasion powers. I mean, as ridiculous as that sounds, that's how I remember the first encounter. Some of the stuff that followed, however....  Although, he would know all about that type of stuff. He was simply on the receiving end of it this time. 

[pau]

2 hours ago, Rowan said:

I don't think that first smooch in the cabin was all that coerced. He may have simply been at a loss as how to contain her and used his masculine persuasion powers. I mean, as ridiculous as that sounds, that's how I remember the first encounter. Some of the stuff that followed, however....  Although, he would know all about that type of stuff. He was simply on the receiving end of it this time. 

Well she used coercing as much as she could in almost all their encounters from my view..but i don't want to dissect this stuff/storyline, no thanks, it was loathsome to me, so let's moving on.

And yeah Ej was no saint, to say the least, but at least when he instigated some shady stuff of this 'genre' it was done mostly with flair, charm, sex appeal and with some believable context OR it was seen as it was from the writing narrative : sleazy...that makes a difference.

Edited September 20, 2017 by pau

[Silver Raven]

Where does Julie get her money?

Oh, Julie, please go back to cruising.

Has St. Luke's stopped paying their light bill?

Yeah, the wedding seating is going to be difficult, what with Adrienne being Abigail's aunt and Lucas being her uncle.  :)

Sure, Brady, going behind people's backs always works out so well.

Brady is such an asshole.

"That's a win win for everybody."  Uh, not for the people who Eric JUST SAID were coming in asking for Nicole.

Oh, boy, Julie and Chloe are going to kill each other.

[boes]

If Chloe decked Julie no jury would convict her.  What an ass she is.  Chloe was right to call her out on her condescending attitude.

And yes, "at this point in her life" does mean she's old because SHE IS OLD.  And what's wrong with that??  Doug has made it pretty clear that he's not looking to run a club but as usual Julie just steams ahead and tries to roll over anyone in her way and for some unfathomable reason, thinks her transparent "charm" makes it all okay.

And why the hell should Chloe, or anyone else for that matter, stand aside so Julie can have what she wants? 

I would, abstractly, anyway, like to like Julie but her fake charm, her steamroller personality and her complete selfishness makes me hope she gets strangled by her Life Alarm pendant.  Only someone as dumb as Julie would consider herself to be a smart businesswoman.  

And enough with the sugary sweet "love of the ages" memories.  Doug WAS married to her mother first and there's not a Hallmark card to match that particular occasion.

Other than all that, she's a perfect doll.

Edited September 21, 2017 by boes

[A.J.]

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Oh, boy, Julie and Chloe are going to kill each other.

Julie is a mess.  LOL!  Was she the Sami of her day? 

[Silver Raven]

2 minutes ago, A.J. said:

Julie is a mess.  LOL!  Was she the Sami of her day? 

Well, the very first scene of the very first episode of the show was Julie stealing a scarf from a store

[boes]

And Brady......what a complete ass he is, now and always.  Didn't Abe notice in her conversation with Nicole that she's afraid of Brady, afraid of his reaction?  What part of of this doesn't scream "abuser"?

I know, lock him up in a closet with Julie for a couple of days.  That should shut the asswipe up for good.

[A.J.]

7 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Well, the very first scene of the very first episode of the show was Julie stealing a scarf from a store

I never knew that.  Too funny. 

[Sandman]

Sami never became Carrie's stepmother (I don't think), so -- no. Julie was NOT the Sami of her day; she's far worse than Sami, with less reason. Julie is a sanctimonious, destructive harpy who is somehow allowed by the entire town to carry on the pretense of being a loving, generous person. Even her vocal concern for her family (selective, at best) has a way of making Julie the centre of attention.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Sandman

[Frozendiva]

Abe, as former Police Commissioner and cop, would have had years' exposure to domestic violence and abuse. He should have clearly noted that Nicole may be in some trouble with Brady. Especially if the hidden amulet is making him even more unstable. The red warning light should have flickered, even momentarily while he was talking to her. At least she does have someone objective to talk to.

I can love many people. Doesn't mean that I expect any sort of relationship with them. Brady probably doesn't 'love' Nicole - just need and obsession. Who cares if Eric has feelings for her? Nicole chose Brady. Maybe they both need to move back to Winnipeg.

Chloe and Julie as business partners? Why the heck would Myron bid $400,000 for that piece of real estate? Is there something hidden in it? The chance of him getting stock options so fast is laughable. The fact is that Doug and Julie are up-there senior citizens and should be spending their time doing things they love - running a business?  I agree with the above poster's sanctimonious harpy comparison.

Hope Lucas gets the help he needs. He simply is Bonnie's collateral damage for whatever is left of the great plan.

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, A.J. said:

Julie is a mess.  LOL!  Was she the Sami of her day? 

She very much was in the sense that she was the face of Days as the misunderstood anti-hero.  She and Doug were the "face" of Soaps in general back then, even appearing on Time Magazine as the embodiment of why the American public loves Soap Operas.

Julie is more of a harpy now but make no mistake Susan Seaforth-Hayes has quite a legacy on this show I just wished the writing reflected that more.

[DisneyBoy]

90-something Doug should be running a business again? Julie, honey, I'm so sorry the sex has dried up but buy yourself a thousand piece puzzle and make that your pet project. Jesus Christ. Is she trying to kill the man?!

How sad is it that the only people I like in Salem are the ones self-aware enough to recognize they're nutcases (Theresa, Kate, Kristen, Anne, Nicole) and the self-loathing former priest?

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Sami never became Carrie's stepmother (I don't think),

To be fair, Julie and Doug were paired first. Doug went for Addie after they split, or so says everything I have ever read. (I was born in 1972, so the Doug/Julie stuff was before my time in terms of watching soaps.)

Julie can be cloying and annoying, but I agree that she and Doug were extremely popular, going so far, as was said, to be on the cover of a non-soap, high-profile magazine in the form of Time well before Luke and Laura were a "thing".

IMO, part of the problem with SSH/Julie now is that Ms. Hayes seems to still favor the exaggerated "AHCTING!" style that soaps used to be known for and hasn't adapted well to a lower-key approach. Just a theory. But love or hate her, Ms. Hayes has earned her part as a legacy character on this show. And as Tom and Alice are gone, Julie seems to have assumed the de facto matriarch role from grandma Alice.

[annabel]

Yeah, I can't really hate Julie, even though she is mostly awful these days. I can hate Doug however, since I never liked him one bit in the first place. 

[Sandman]

Heh. DisneyBoy, I'll give you all the others on your list, but Kristen never struck me as very self-aware. Maybe we could add Anna? I think she recognizes her own nuttiness. Anne isn't so much a nutcase as bitter and cynical -- but she has no illusions about that.

I don't disagree with anything above about Julie's role in the history of the show, or how big the pairing became in popular culture -- Doug and Julie were before my time, too (I'm old enough to remember the first days of Mac & Rachel (& Iris), for context), but I just find the general pass that Julie seems to get on her self-centred behaviour appalling. Sami never gets that kind of forgiveness or permission. And, I'm sorry, Julie's relationship with the father of her half-sister just creeps me the hell out -- even if it began a generation or more ago.*

Edited September 22, 2017 by Sandman
*But apparently it's Doug who's the creepster, not Julie.

[pau]

28 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Heh. DisneyBoy, I'll give you all the others on your list, but Kristen never struck me as very self-aware. Maybe we could add Anna? I think she recognizes her own nuttiness. Anne isn't so much a nutcase as bitter and cynical -- but she has no illusions about that.

I don't disagree with anything above about Julie's role in the history of the show, or how big the pairing became in popular culture -- Doug and Julie were before my time, too (I'm old enough to remember the first days of Mac & Rachel (& Iris), for context), but I just find the general pass that Julie seems to get on her self-centred behaviour appalling. Sami never gets that kind of forgiveness or permission. And, I'm sorry, her relationship with the father of her half-sister just creeps me the hell out -- even if it began a generation or more ago.

And Sami can be self-aware (at least as much as..if not more than Nicole, Theresa and co..they are certainly not always self-aware..to say the least..) AND she can be OTT self-centered but she is often called out for it.. it depends of the moments and the team of writers in charge..

Edited September 21, 2017 by pau

[Apprentice79]

12 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Heh. DisneyBoy, I'll give you all the others on your list, but Kristen never struck me as very self-aware. Maybe we could add Anna? I think she recognizes her own nuttiness. Anne isn't so much a nutcase as bitter and cynical -- but she has no illusions about that.

Kristen was just evil, in the same vein as  Emma Donovan and Ava Vitali.  I would say Anna is just greedy for money and respect.  It is why she worked so well with Tony.. 

[DisneyBoy]

Woah now - Kristen was not Ava. Ava was a shittily-written and performed oily greasy snake of a character who had nothing redeemable or likeable about her. Granted I never saw her original run where she was supposedly being abused by her father with medications or something? But Kristen? Kristen is a character who is a good person, an excellent person in fact, who was gradually driven nuts by scheming Marlena and John's dishonesty and Stefano's lousy advice. Yes, the show made her into a rapist and a baby kidnapper who was willing to kill Brady, the then-love of her life, but even at the end with that crap writing to work with I think Eileen Davidson sold us on the fact that Kristen was still the same person who was warped by everything that happened. I hate some of the writing, but I don't hate Kristen and think of her as evil. She's done evil things, but who on this show hasn't? Kristen is well aware of the fact that she's a bit of a mess. She supposedly got a lot of therapy between the 90s and her return in 2012. She knows.

[Apprentice79]

36 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Woah now - Kristen was not Ava. Ava was a shittily-written and performed oily greasy snake of a character who had nothing redeemable or likeable about her. Granted I never saw her original run where she was supposedly being abused by her father with medications or something? But Kristen? Kristen is a character who is a good person, an excellent person in fact, who was gradually driven nuts by scheming Marlena and John's dishonesty and Stefano's lousy advice. Yes, the show made her into a rapist and a baby kidnapper who was willing to kill Brady, the then-love of her life, but even at the end with that crap writing to work with I think Eileen Davidson sold us on the fact that Kristen was still the same person who was warped by everything that happened. I hate some of the writing, but I don't hate Kristen and think of her as evil. She's done evil things, but who on this show hasn't? Kristen is well aware of the fact that she's a bit of a mess. She supposedly got a lot of therapy between the 90s and her return in 2012. She knows.

Marlena never schemed against Kristen.  The only people that Marlena hurt to be with John was Roman and her family. The situation was very complex and everybody expected Marlena to go back to Roman and she did that for a while.  Nobody ever asked her about her feelings for John.  A man that she married and had a life with.   She suppressed her feelings and moved on with Roman. While John did the same with Isabella and Brady.  She loved John before he was revealed to be Roman.  There was even a time that John Black was believed to be Stefano with a new face, but, she was still drawn to him, regardless..

Kristen was an evil  woman and irredeemable in my eyes. She wanted a man that did not want her. She found the letter that John wrote Marlena, pouring his heart out and made the choice to hide it and began her descent into evil. I never felt sorry for her at all.. She knew all about the bond between John and Marlena and chose to get involved with John.. She got what she deserved. She was there to see the fallout of Marlena's affair with John, while married to Roman.  

The only person who should hold a grudge against Jarlena is Roman. Roman spent 7 years in a dungeon. While his wife, family, friends, colleagues and 3 children bonded, loved, shared things, and had a life with an impostor calling himself Roman.  So much was stolen from him. He was the biggest loser, not Kristen...

Edited September 21, 2017 by Apprentice79

[FnkyChkn34]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:19 PM, SueB said:

- Am I the only one who likes Rafe?  Cause I like Rafe.  Doesn't mean I always watch his scenes, just that I like him.

No, I also like him.  Sure, he's not the most exciting, and he's had some hypocritical moments, but he's decent enough and nice to look at.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

She's done evil things, but who on this show hasn't? Kristen is well aware of the fact that she's a bit of a mess. She supposedly got a lot of therapy between the 90s and her return in 2012. She knows.

Someone who rants and screeches at a picture of Jesus, blaming him for her problems, because he hates her? Yeah, that's not someone who's aware of her own responsibility, I would say. (Although I can agree that the writing for Kristen's later appearance was not on the same standard as when the character was first introduced.) I'm glad Kristen got some therapy. She needs more.

[Apprentice79]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Someone who rants and screeches at a picture of Jesus, blaming him for her problems, because he hates her? Yeah, that's not someone who's aware of her own responsibility, I would say. (Although I can agree that the writing for Kristen's later appearance was not on the same standard as when the character was first introduced.) I'm glad Kristen got some therapy. She needs more.

How about she stays dead and never come back.. I don't understand why the show keeps bringing back characters like Ava and Kristen back...They are not necessary. However, Stefanie, Carrie, Sami, Belle, Sarah Horton, Noelle Curtis, Mike Horton, Shawn-Douglas and many others are characters that are worthy of a comeback..They still have stories to be told..

Edited September 21, 2017 by Apprentice79

[FnkyChkn34]

4 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

How about she stays dead and never come back.. I don't understand why the show keeps bringing back characters like Ava and Kristen back...They are not necessary. However, Stefanie, Carrie, Sami, Belle, Sarah Horton, Noelle Curtis, Mike Horton, Shawn-Douglas and many others are characters that are worthy of a comeback..They still have stories to be told..

Agree 1000%.  I never liked Kristen and never liked her storylines.  Susan, too.  Meanwhile, I miss a well-written Shawn D, Belle, and Mike Horton...

[DisneyBoy]

Y'all better be careful now cause y'all be startin' to sound mean, mean, mean...!

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Marlena never schemed against Kristen.

After Paris, Marlena basically started stalking Kristen in order to prove that she wasn't really pregnant, to free her from the agreement that she willingly made to not pursue John for the sake of the baby. The mature thing for this psychologist to do would have been to just approach John and tell him flat out that she respects that he's with Kristen and that they're starting a family together but that she read the note that he wrote her and returns his feelings. All three adults could have gotten into a room together and agreed that they would put off making any decisions about their future until after the baby was born for the sake of Kristen getting through the pregnancy. Instead Marlena followed Kristen around uninvited to doctor's appointments - who the hell does that? - and basically rubbed her hands and licked her lips together for the chance to find any excuse to remind Kristen she had her by the balls. Now I realize Kristen may have played a part in Marlena getting abducted and locked in the cage in Paris (details foggy there), and I'm not entirely sure how much Marlena knew about Kristen's involvement with all of that. Obviously if she knew Kristen had participated in her abduction then she would have even more reason to want Kristen away from John. I just think there was a mature way to handle things. Marlena didn't choose that path in spite of supposedly being someone of high morals.

Of course we're talking about a storyline that was wildly entertaining because it stretched plausibility. All John had to do to figure out that Kristen wasn't pregnant was touch his pregnant fiancee. You mean to tell me that no point in 6 months when Kristen was playing herself did John reach over and touch her belly only to discover it was a pillow? Pretty much the least realistic thing going on.

But I definitely do feel Marlena schemed against Kristen during that time. Not to Kristen's standards, of course, but never the less Marlena had an agenda and showed Kristen very little sympathy. Again, she's supposed to be in tune to people's emotions and traumas. If she knew Kristen was so unhinged as to have her kidnapped and then try to fake a pregnancy with a pillow under her shirt, perhaps Marlena could have actually showed her friend some sympathy and gotten her some help. They had known each other for years and been mutually respectful about their involvement in John's life. It didn't have to be a competition where Marlena could easily take the high road because she hadn't lost the baby and John's heart had waffled back in her direction.

One thing that I always found a little strange about the storyline was that John seemed dead set on having a family with Kristen but the minute she was revealed to have never been pregnant he dumped her. And said he never loved her at all. Pretty brutal. Do you guys think that if Kristen actually had been pregnant with John's kid that he would have stayed with her and they would have had a happy life in spite of him still having feelings for Marlena? It's a pretty interesting "what if" to consider.

Quote

She knew all about the bond between John and Marlena and chose to get involved with John.. She got what she deserved.

For her crimes? She didn't get half of what she deserved. But, I think it's easy to forget how Kristen and John were legitimately happy together for a long time prior to Lady in a Cage. I definitely think this is a case of Kristen's misdeeds inviting everyone to paint over the fact that she and her man really were happy as a couple and that she was a good person. It's not like the show took two months to tell us Kristen was a good gal and then immediately had her go off and be crazy. She was a good person on the show for years. I think that's part of why I find her so compelling and still do.

...provided they don't bring her back someday to have her rape people or steal embryos or try to execute folks anymore.

Edited September 21, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[JBC344]

I wouldn't say that Marlena schemed against Kristen but she and John certainly screwed her over big time.  Also Marlena's behavior at that time wasn't exactly admirable.  She wasn't a schemer but she certainly wasn't innocent either.

[JBC344]

7 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Y'all better be careful now cause y'all be startin' to sound mean, mean, mean...!

After Paris, Marlena basically started stalking Kristen in order to prove that she wasn't really pregnant, to free her from the agreement that she willingly made to not pursue John for the sake of the baby. The mature thing for this psychologist to do would have been to just approach John and tell him flat out that she respects that he's with Kristen and that they're starting a family together but that she read the note that he wrote her and returns his feelings. All three adults could have gotten into a room together and agreed that they would put off making any decisions about their future until after the baby was born for the sake of Kristen getting through the pregnancy. Instead Marlena followed Kristen around uninvited to doctor's appointments - who the hell does that? - and basically rubbed her hands and licked her lips together for the chance to find any excuse to remind Kristen she had her by the balls. Now I realize Kristen may have played a part in Marlena getting abducted and locked in the cage in Paris (details foggy there), and I'm not entirely sure how much Marlena knew about Kristen's involvement with all of that. Obviously if she knew Kristen had participated in her abduction then she would have even more reason to want Kristen away from John. I just think there was a mature way to handle things. Marlena didn't choose that path in spite of supposedly being someone of high morals.

Of course we're talking about a storyline that was wildly entertaining because it stretched plausibility. All John how to do to figure out that Kristen wasn't pregnant with touch his pregnant fiancee. You mean to tell me that no point in 6 months when Kristen was playing herself did John reach over and touch her belly only to discover it was a pillow? Pretty much the least realistic thing going on.

But I definitely do feel Marlena schemed against Kristen during that time. Not to Kristen's standards, of course, but never the less Marlena had an agenda and showed Kristen very little sympathy. Again, she's supposed to be in tune to people's emotions and traumas. If she knew Kristen was so unhinged as to have her kidnapped and then try to fake a pregnancy with a pillow under her shirt, perhaps Marlena could have actually showed her friend some sympathy and gotten her some help. They had known each other for years and been mutually respectful about their involvement in John's life. It didn't have to be a competition where Marlena could easily take the high road because she hadn't lost the baby and John's heart had waffled back in her direction.

One thing that I always found a little strange about the storyline was that John seemed dead set on having a family with Kristen but the minute she was revealed to have never been pregnant he dumped her. And said he never loved her at all. Pretty brutal. Do you guys think that if Kristen actually had been pregnant with John's kid that he would have stayed with her and they would have had a happy life in spite of him still having feelings for Marlena? It's a pretty interesting "what if" to consider.

For her crimes? She didn't get half of what she deserved. But, I think it's easy to forget how Kristen and John were legitimately happy together for a long time prior to Lady in a Cage. I definitely think this is a case of Kristen's misdeeds inviting everyone to paint over the fact that she and her man really were happy as a couple and that she was a good person. It's not like the show took two months to tell us Kristen was a good gal and then immediately had her go off and be crazy. She was a good person on the show for years. I think that's part of why I find her so compelling and still do.

...provided they don't bring her back someday to have her rape people or steal embryos or try to execute folks anymore.

Amen.  I think the immense good will that Kristen had before her mental breakdown should of counted for something.  Once they decided to put John and Marlena back together Kristen was totally sacrificed.  This is why I didn't mind her coming back originally to mess with John and Marlena.  I never felt that they ever took any real responsibility in that whole mess. Or never seriously had any sympathy for the fact that she really did lose her mind with everything that happened to her.

[DisneyBoy]

if I recall correctly, the last time John and Kristen spoke outside in front of the pub back in 2013, he told her that he always knew the only time she would ever be really happy was if someone else was in pain. I thought that was an immensely cruel thing to say and completely untrue. If Marlena had backed off John and John had stayed with Kristen I think they probably could have been happy. Kristen didn't want to hurt people - all she wanted was to hold on to this man who meant the world to her. When she came back in 2012 and started messing with Marlena, I did think it was very fitting considering all of the agony she felt during the entire time she was dancing frantically to hold onto John in the 90s. When she raped Eric and from that point onwards, Kristen was willing to hurt people for her own pleasure but I don't think that's been her main motivation. Let's remember she didn't kill Theresa when she had the chance and instead simply took her embryo. Theresa could have easily been murdered and that would have been the end of her entire story. Kristen wasn't interested in killing her. She just wanted to have a baby.

The woman really hasn't had a single good thing in her life in a really long time. I think the closest she came was getting Jennifer's friendship back and having EJ and Chad be affectionate towards her. Her relationship with Brady was largely a manipulation and never really had a moment where they were both on the same page and honest with each other so I can't really count that as true happiness.

[boes]

I've got a solution - for the Kristen fans, bring her back.....

For those who don't like her - pair her with Andre.

And then have Susan slip in, kidnap her and pretend to be her, thereby driving EVERYONE crazy.

And one more thing, have Susan stash the kidnapped Kristen in Marlena's honkin' huge pocketbook.  That'd surprise the good doctor when she reached in to grab her smokes for a drag behind the pub.....

Edited September 21, 2017 by boes

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

While John did the same with Isabella and Brady. 

I can't agree with this part in the context given (that John suppressed feelings for Marlena so moved on with Isabella). John loved Marlena, sure. But there's no convincing me that he wasn't in love with Isabella. She even left John to allow him to go back to Marlena and was hesitant when the "other" Roman came back and complicated things. But John was happy about the baby and was more than happy to marry and build a life with Isabella. (I loved the pregnancy reveal scene in Chichen Itza.)

I do recall Marlena being all weepy in Mexico and hiding it, seeing them every now and then. And even if I don't like Marlena, I'll concede she was in a tough spot but respected John's feelings.

I think, as far as dynamics went, once Marlena and Roman came back, that poor Original Roman thought he'd get Marlena and his family back as he still loved Marlena. But while Marlena loved Roman still, she was in love with John but felt guilty about it with Original Roman back, so maybe she was trying to recapture her passionate love for Roman, to no avail.

John, though...I think that old corny song "Torn Between Two Lovers" applied here. As I said, he loved both Isabella and Marlena. But, to his credit, once he chose, he didn't act all regretful. He loved his wife and baby. And I have heard all the writers' plans about John and Marlena and an affair even if Isabella was on canvas, but John and Isabella also had a nice-sized fan base, so I don't think one can know how all would have shaken out even if Staci Greason had stayed.

But Isabella died. And I think once John got over her loss, then he still had his feelings he had put away come back, and well...we know the rest.

In short, I think Marlena had more emotional baggage since she had long fallen out of passionate love with Roman while John's new relationship was still in play.

[Rowan]

Yeah, I always felt the show was way more respectful of John's love for Isabella than it was for his and Kristen's, and that's a shame. I hate it when they take a legitimate good guy character and turn them evil in service of the love affair of choice. It's always to keep the torn person in the middle from seeming disloyal. I'll admit that John and Marlena have never been my fav pairing for him. I did think the fallout from their affair was good stuff though. 

I'll give Drake this, despite his questionable acting choices over the years, he has made multiple romantic pairings outside the one with DH work. It always helped that she was off the canvas, so the writers and viewers actually invested in a real love story outside of Marlena for him. 

ED put work in at Days. She sold it as a complex heroine and then as a selfish woman who would sacrifice any self respect she had left to keep what she had, not to mention Susan's crazy ass.