S06.E09: Clap Your Hands If You Believe...

[Guest]

While Sam and Dean are investigating a UFO sighting, Dean is abducted from a crop circle. However, when he awakens, he discovers he isn't dealing with aliens, but fairies! Unfortunately, only Dean can see the fairy that keeps attacking him which makes tracing and stopping them difficult. The brothers become even more perplexed when Sam's investigation leads them to a world full of elves, gnomes and a leprechaun.

 

 

[Demented Daisy]

The whole episode is one big gay joke that I don't find funny.  

 

When Dean says, "What do you want, you fairy?" with such anger in his voice....  Well, I've heard that same thing directed at friends, but they weren't called fairies.  Substitute another F word.

 

Basically, this is a "trigger" episode for me.  But that's my hang up; I don't expect others to have the same reaction if they haven't had the same experiences.

[DittyDotDot]

I tend to see the episode less as a big gay bashing joke and see it as more hunting misunderstanding. Sam and Dean are constantly being misunderstood when they talk about the hunting world. Episodes like Sam, Interrupted also explore this idea, but use mental illness as the way in. So, to me, the world at large would see Sam and Dean as homophobic asshats when talking about faeries since the outside world wouldn't know they were talking about actual faeries and not homosexuals. I think in some ways the show is making commentary about how easy it is for people to misunderstand situations and turn them into something they're not. That's not to say they did it well, or that they should have gone there, just another perspective to mull over. As always, miles vary.

 

Anyway, while maybe not their best episode, I'm rather fond of a large chunk of it. I enjoy the whole ruse of the alien abductions and think it's funny how Dean thinks reality is collapsing because aliens are real, but somehow faeries aren't so out of the range of possibility. It's nice to see Robert Picardo and I think he plays one hell of an interesting leprechaun. And that kooky fairy lady never fails to amuse. That whole scene of them in her trailer is absolutely delightful, IMO. It will never not be funny to me watching those big guys drink out of those little cups. And it will never not be funny to me seeing Dean take on a faery with Bowie playing in the background.

 

However, I don't really care for the soullessness talk much. Yes, Sam is soulless and doesn't really "feel" things like he used to, but I don't think his childlike behavior is realistic in this episode. He managed to "play" old Sam for a year, but suddenly he doesn't know what a normal response would be and why? I think they tried too hard to make Sam into a Data here and it doesn't work so well for me. I do however find the idea Dean being Sam's "Jiminy Cricket" interesting, just wish they'd used it better is all. 

Edited November 30, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

I would agree with you, Ditty (like I always do) -- actually, I would love to agree with you.  I just can't handle these exchanges, which play on Dean's "fear":

 

DEAN
Close encounter! Close encounter!

 

SAM
Close encounter! What kind? First? Second?

 

DEAN
They’re after me!

 

SAM
Third kind already? You better run, man. I think the fourth kind is a butt thing.

 

 

DEAN

And then suddenly, I was, uh, I was in a different place. And there were these beings, and they were too bright to look at, but I could feel them pulling me towards this sort of table—

 

SAM

Probing table!

 

DEAN

God! Don’t say that out loud!

 

 

MARION

Mmm. There is much theory and little fact. We know they only take firstborn sons, just like Rumplestiltskin did. Personally, I think they’re taken to Avalon to service Oberon, the King of the Faery.

 

SAM

Dean? Did you service Oberon, King of the Fairies?

 

 

It's just too much for me.  :-(

[AwesomO4000]

However, I don't really care for the soullessness talk much. Yes, Sam is soulless and doesn't really "feel" things like he used to, but I don't think his childlike behavior is realistic in this episode. He managed to "play" old Sam for a year, but suddenly he doesn't know what a normal response would be and why? I think they tried too hard to make Sam into a Data here and it doesn't work so well for me. I do however find the idea Dean being Sam's "Jiminy Cricket" interesting, just wish they'd used it better is all. 

 

Maybe I'm being too generous to the writers, but I saw Sam as being more laissez-fair than not knowing. I more saw him as now that he didn't have to pretend, he just didn't care so much how he came across. As soulless Sam explained somewhere - it might have been this episode or one close to it - all the pretending was exhausting. He was enjoying his not having to pretend and so he asked questions he might not normally have. The questions Sam had about what it means to have a soul were a  little clunky maybe, but I think he really didn't know. They also were part of the build up to him deciding that he didn't want a soul after all.

 

I'm also not convinced that soulless Sam "played" old Sam all that well during that year. Bobby notwithstanding, Dean knew there was something wrong very early on, and even Samuel had his doubts, but he just didn't say anything, because Sam was also helping him get alphas. That was part of Samuel getting closer to his goal of getting Mary back, so I'm thinking he didn't want to look that "gift horse" in the mouth too closely. (Or as Dean would say later: put that gift horse under a  microscope.) When soulless Sam didn't think he had to play the part or when he wasn't called out on it - as with Samuel - he just went right on behaving completely unlike real Sam - like when he beat the cop nearly to death right in front of Samuel and then talked him into that half-assed and dangerous plan to use that guy as bait and got him monsterfied. Those things were entirely not playing real Sam well in my book.

[DittyDotDot]

Demented Daisy, on 30 Nov 2014 - 6:24 PM, said:

I would agree with you, Ditty (like I always do) -- actually, I would love to agree with you.  I just can't handle these exchanges, which play on Dean's "fear":

 

[...]

 

It's just too much for me.  :-(

 

I understand why the episode makes people uneasy and normally I'd be right there with you. There are so many times I feel like the show is ignorantly borderline offensive, or at the very least ignorantly inappropriate, with regards to sex and gender issues. But since the construct of the episode is really a big hoax that causes a big reaction by the alien conspiracy folks, it oddly has a different effect on me. I see the episode as looking like it's talking about one thing, but really it's talking about another. I think those exchanges can be read as big gay jokes (and normally on this show, that's how I would view them) but they also can be seen as more straightforward if you remove certain connotations. I'm not saying this was the actual intention of the show--probably not, considering what show it is--but it's the effect it has on me none the less.

 

 

AwesomO4000, on 30 Nov 2014 - 9:53 PM, said:

Maybe I'm being too generous to the writers, but I saw Sam as being more laissez-fair than not knowing. I more saw him as now that he didn't have to pretend, he just didn't care so much how he came across. As soulless Sam explained somewhere - it might have been this episode or one close to it - all the pretending was exhausting. He was enjoying his not having to pretend and so he asked questions he might not normally have. The questions Sam had about what it means to have a soul were a  little clunky maybe, but I think he really didn't know. They also were part of the build up to him deciding that he didn't want a soul after all.

 

I understand the whole giving up the pretenses thing (it was in this episode where Sam states it was exhausting) I just felt like they pushed the childlike and naivety aspect too far here. I felt like they handled it better in the previous and ante episodes. More showing his unfeeling and uncaring rather than childlike wonder at what it all meant. I do agree that Soulless Sam did only an approximation of Sam that fooled people who didn't know him well, but wasn't entirely successful. My point wasn't that his play acting was so great, but obviously he knew enough to pretend he was something other than he was. This episode presented him as not knowing there was even something off about him, IMO. And some of the talks he and Dean have about soullessness--like how having a soul equates misery--it just feels more like a discussion Data would have with Riker or Picard, which is a completely different show. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I would agree with you, Ditty (like I always do) -- actually, I would love to agree with you.  I just can't handle these exchanges, which play on Dean's "fear":

 

 

It's just too much for me.  :-(

 

Sort of continuing from what I said above and the tone that DittyDotDot mentioned concerning soulless Sam's strange questions in this episode, I sort of looked at those borderline inappropriate statements as more soulless Sam's things. I thought the first quote was soulless Sam being an ass - because he generally was an ass. The last one and with the way it was said struck me as almost callous curiosity, similar to his wondering what was going to happen when Dean was turned. I imagined soulless Sam almost hoping Dean would say yes, so he could ask him what it was like

 

With the second quote, I don't blame Dean too much, because considering all he's been through in hell, I'm sure "probing table" could have all sorts of terrible, non-consensual meanings beyond anything obvious. And once again, it was soulless Sam being his assy self.

 

Definitely there was juvenile humor in this episode, and as DittyDotDot mentioned, the tone even seemed to be shifted a bit to accommodate it, but I'm going to blame that more on the writers than Dean. And more on soulless Sam's curiosity * issues even than on Dean.

 

But I can also see where you are coming from. And the humor was a bit at Dean's expense.

 

* I'm not even going to say morbid curiosity in this case, since considering the way soulless Sam was, I would think he'd be genuinely curious about it.

 

I understand why the episode makes people uneasy and normally I'd be right there with you. There are so many times I feel like the show is ignorantly borderline offensive, or at the very least ignorantly inappropriate, with regards to sex and gender issues. But since the construct of the episode is really a big hoax that causes a big reaction by the alien conspiracy folks, it oddly has a different effect on me. I see the episode as looking like it's talking about one thing, but really it's talking about another. I think those exchanges can be read as big gay jokes (and normally on this show, that's how I would view them) but they also can be seen as more straightforward if you remove certain connotations. I'm not saying this was the actual intention of the show--probably not, considering what show it is--but it's the effect it has on me none the less.

 

I understand the whole giving up the pretenses thing (it was in this episode where Sam states it was exhausting) I just felt like they pushed the childlike and naivety aspect too far here. I felt like they handled it better in the previous and ante episodes. More showing his unfeeling and uncaring rather than childlike wonder at what it all meant... This episode presented him as not knowing there was even something off about him, IMO. And some of the talks he and Dean have about soullessness--like how having a soul equates misery--it just feels more like a discussion Data would have with Riker or Picard, which is a completely different show. 

 

I didn't quite see soulless Sam not knowing something was off about him as you did, but I do see the difference / shift in tone you're referring to. This was likely to accommodate the more comedic tone of the episode. And despite that this was a bit jarring, there was also some genuine humor in some of the other scenes in the episode, especially the ones with the fairy expert lady and Dean vs the glowing fairy - and his almost hurt feelings that a hot, be-nippled being would attack him. Soulless Sam and the hippy chick was also amusing for me, especially his logic that having sex with her would still be in the dark.

 

So all in all, definitely not a perfect episode, but one I tend to enjoy and can overlook the tonal issues on. I can definitely understand not overlooking the tonal issues, though, since that is how I feel about "Live Free and Twihard."

Edited December 1, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[rue721]

But since the construct of the episode is really a big hoax that causes a big reaction by the alien conspiracy folks, it oddly has a different effect on me. I see the episode as looking like it's talking about one thing, but really it's talking about another. I think those exchanges can be read as big gay jokes (and normally on this show, that's how I would view them) but they also can be seen as more straightforward if you remove certain connotations. I'm not saying this was the actual intention of the show--probably not, considering what show it is--but it's the effect it has on me none the less.

 

Doesn't the idea that the episode's implicit (even if not necessarily intentional) theme is that things/people aren't always what they seem make the episode even weirder and more discordant, though? Like, the show put together this really juvenile and broad episode, obviously meant to appeal more to kids/younger fans, and then made the "lesson" implied by that episode be that when someone is spouting off bigoted-sounding stuff, like homophobic bullshit, they're maybe just misunderstood? Of all the "themes" that really shouldn't/wouldn't resonate with the younger segment of the audience, tbh.

 

Especially since nobody else really seemed to get or "deserve" the benefit of the doubt in that way other than the guys. Like, the lady who spoonfed them all that faery lore didn't end up having any other dimension, she was just there for exposition and to be the butt of about a zillion jokes, seemed like. Which frankly, I ended up feeling bad about by the time the episode moved on from her, since she ended up being really nothing but nice to everybody, and for no personal gain or anything that I remember, just because she was a huge geek over faeries and a genuinely nice person, I guess.

 

There are just so many things wrong with the episode, even just in terms of basic plot imo. What *did* happen to all the abducted people, anyway? Were they seriously kidnapped to "service" Oberon?! About the only thing that I liked was the fight between the Tinkerbell-esque fairy that ended with her blowing out the microwave. Oh, and some of the "lore" was fun, like I enjoyed the thing of faeries having to count all the spilled grains of sugar or salt, too. But why throw in at least three different kinds of faeries that seemed to be basically nothing alike, and burn through all those ideas without actually doing anything with any of them? Idk, just so much about this episode seemed *so* sloppy and/or like a terrible idea even just on the face of it. The running gag was that basically everything out of Dean's mouth sounded bigoted, ffs. Who is just cracking up over that? Wtf were the writers even thinking? This has got to be the worst episode that Edlund ever wrote imo.

 

Such a waste, too, because fairies *and* leprechauns *and* elves are pretty cool and could have some fun stories about them. Oh! One other thing that I did like -- how the leprechaun made it sound like there was this whole alternative faery realm that had nothing to do with the heaven/hell/purgatory stuff that everyone else was dealing with and that had its own rules and everything. That seems like it has so much potential. Wouldn't it be fun to have a faery Big Bad even? Just something totally different? Well anyway.

 

I thought that Sam was just being an ass because he could be, I didn't think he was actually naive or trying to learn about "humanity" or anything. YMMV, but I didn't think he was genuinely confused in a "hmmm that's interesting!" way that banging some random woman in the dark motel room wasn't the same as mourning alone in the dark -- he just didn't give a shit that it wasn't the same thing and didn't feel at all guilty for not pretending to sit there mourning, so he blew off Dean's complaints by saying he was already doing a good bit of what Dean was asking for anyway and that was going to have to be good enough. That was the best mourning Dean was going to get from Soullless Sam, so he might as well suck it up already. Same thing with the thing of when he went to the alien-watcher campsite and brushed off everyone's concern about his missing brother by saying he was over it, it had been a half hour already -- I figured he was just blowing everyone off because he didn't care and wanted to move on from that part of the conversation. He didn't even care enough to lie to them, he was just going to answer in a matter-of-fact way and move on. And frankly, nobody did really care or have real empathy, it wasn't like people were freaking out over his behavior or anything really, they just had a morbid curiosity about the abduction or were after their own ends, too. Soulless Sam seemed to fit in and be liked well enough among that crowd, really, just like he had been with the Campbells. Basically the only people who actually cared that Soulless Sam was a total freak were the people who actually had any use for Sam as a person, he was about to fulfill his purposes for others pretty well or maybe even better without a soul anyway. 

[Dobian]

Sam's indifference to Dean being abducted was pretty hilarious, I'm liking Soulless Sam now.  Robert Picardo is always great.  The X-Files opening credits was fun.  The gay misunderstanding I didn't find offensive, just kind of lame as jokes go.  Not sure I care for them expanding the show's mythology again.  They've already added Greek, Norse, Voodoo, and Hindu gods, now it's faeries. 

[Diane]

I probably think this episode is way more funny than I should.  Love it.

[Hanahope]

So I like the X-files connection. But otherwise it was just ok.  Soulless Sam is really a pain.

[bettername2come]

I was gonna stop and go to bed, but this one's too funny. Top four of the season. Soulless Sam has no filter, and Jared is awesome at it. "Old Sam had a soul, was a soul." I love that line. Just the point that this is not Sam. Sam ordering another beer in the middle of Dean's abduction is hilarious and wrong. Whoa, corn is taller than Sam? I underestimated corn height. "Have you considered the possibility that you suck at hunting UFOs?" I'm not the only one who wants to say this to a ufologist at some point, right? Hey, Shirtless Sam! Oh, the motel has a corn divider. Thank you set designer. "It would be in the dark!" Underappreciated line regarding UFO research: "At least books have punctuation." Dean appreciates grammar. And now I love him more. "Space Oddity" playing over Deans fight with the fairy is a good use of music. And microwaving the fairy is almost as good as a wood chipper for the people sized monsters. "You're the one who pizza rolled Tinkerbell." Cops only figure out who Sam and Dean are when necessary to the plot. They never have to worry about previous murder charges otherwise. The lighting in that last scene on the Impala is just gorgeous. 

Major appreciation for the adlibs in this episode. Apparently, "Do you have bigger cups?" "I'm just kidding" "Fight the fairies, Sam!" and "Why didn't I do that earlier?" were all improvisation. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by bettername2come

[Katy M]

I also like "let's just go with you see it and I don't."  "I'm not supposed to laugh right?"  No, Sam, you absolutely were supposed to laugh.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Aw, kid - haven't you ever seen a horror movie?  Do not run into the cornfield because you heard something!  

I really liked the homage to the X files opening.

The first time I watched this, I loved it.  Thought it was hilarious.  Now though, SoullessSam is just really getting on my nerves.  Dean is absolutely perfect, the entire ep.  "Grabby, incandescent douchbags."  "Too soon"  Lol.  At least Sam looked happy that Dean was back, but that was probably only because he thought that would give them a break in the case.  Ah, barefoot Sam.  I do like seeing barefoot Sam.  It's a thing, okay?  Don't judge.  I like Dean's dig at blogs that don't use proper punctuation.  Thank you, Dean.  Dean fighting Tinkerbell was funny.  Dean zapped Tinkerbell.  Didn't see that coming first time around.  

I do like the visual of Jared drinking from the tiny cup.

"No hippie chicks".  You know Sam is thinking that Dean didn't say anything about no waitresses.  

Okay.  "Fight the fairies!" had me laughing.  

I liked the introduction of the lore of the faerie realm in this one.  Liked that it was adjacent to and not exactly part of the regular SPN world of demons and angels.  Kind of makes sense to me that they would have back door ways around.  I wonder if the leprechaun really could have gotten Sam's soul out.  Probably.  Too bad it was at a price.  

Ah, the green cooler for the finish!  Nice.  

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Aw, kid - haven't you ever seen a horror movie?  Do not run into the cornfield because you heard something!  

 

See, this is something I NEVER get.  It's one thing if you think someone's in danger and you think you can help them.  But, why investigate creepy sounds?  One time I was at a local pizza/sub place and I was standing at the counter.  There was another customer and someone working behind the counter (obviously).  We heard what sounded like a gun shot.  The male customer (I'm not sure his sex is important, but I just don't see a woman doing this) said "was that a gunshot" and ran out the door towards the sound.  I looked at the girl behind the coutner and asked "why would you run toward a gunshot?"  She shrugged her shoulders.  He came back shortly and said he didn't see anything. Yeah, that's probably a good thing.

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Now though, SoullessSam is just really getting on my nerves.

This is one of the only episodes where I really embrace SS.  He's just too funny.  And, he's not being super evil. 

[Iju]

jared is just taking his sweet time with dead sam i see. he's done such a great job and this has to be the best so far. he played that scene in the diner when dean was running so well. he expressed timid interest, just the right amount. if anything he was curious at most. it's interesting seeing this because seeing dead sam act like this indirectly shows us how sam would be acting. dead sam goes left, real sam goes right, and so on. "Oh no. I think the fourth is kinda a butt thing." LMAO

dean walking in on sam and the woman was way too funny. "Dean!" he sounded matter of factly. he looked so cute. but even for that i don't understand why sam's having sex so much more often. soulessness = sex crazy? i mean i don't even get it. and i'm not saying sam is exactly "crazy" for sex but....it's just strange to me. i don't get the message.

the doctor from star trek next gen! i always liked him. good to see him NOT in that perpetual suit.

loved the david bowie (rest in peace) song with dean defeating the "hot naked fairy lady". with nipples.

P.S. NOT at sam being almost as tall as the cornrows. just wow. he must be almost 7ft!

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, Iju said:

but even for that i don't understand why sam's having sex so much more often. soulessness = sex crazy? i mean i don't even get it. and i'm not saying sam is exactly "crazy" for sex but....it's just strange to me. i don't get the message.

I think it was a way to highlight the difference between regular Sam who has only been seen to be intimate when he cares for someone vs. Soulless Sam who just goes by his base instincts because he doesn't care about anything.

[Pondlass1]

Nipples?  This episode was pure gold.

 

[catrox14]

11 hours ago, Iju said:

. but even for that i don't understand why sam's having sex so much more often. soulessness = sex crazy? i mean i don't even get it. and i'm not saying sam is exactly "crazy" for sex but....it's just strange to me. i don't get the message.

"Sex crazy"? What does that even mean? People have all kinds of variable sex drives.

Sam is not some golden boy who doesn't have sex on the regular. LOL

He kissed Sarah who he did like but didn't really know at all. Maybe he had sex with her and we don't know it.** Sam had sex with Madison after knowing her for what 3 days? He related to her and liked her. He had hot monkey sex with the doctor in Sex and Violence and was not under the influence of anything.  Sam isn't some super duper good guy who never has sex with strangers. LOL. And if he did, so what? He really didn't know Sarah or Madison anymore than he knows this sex worker. And I think if he did go to a sex worker before now, he would have been respectful to some degree, unlike this asshole in this episode who blew her off after she gave him her number.

This Sam is a complete and total dick on every level. I can't stand him.

from future episodes

Spoiler

He had sex with Piper the waitress in the back of baby.  He wasn't affected by anything supernatural then. 

 

** The fact that Sarah hasn't died makes me think, no he did not.

From future episoes

Spoiler

However that she's dead now makes me think he did.

Edited April 22, 2018 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

53 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

"Sex crazy"? What does that even mean? People have all kinds of variable sex drives.

Sam is not some golden boy who doesn't have sex on the regular. LOL

He kissed Sarah who he did like but didn't really know at all. Maybe he had sex with her and we don't know it.** Sam had sex with Madison after knowing her for what 3 days? He related to her and liked her. He had hot monkey sex with the doctor in Sex and Violence and was not under the influence of anything.  Sam isn't some super duper good guy who never has sex with strangers. LOL. And if he did, so what? He really didn't know Sarah or Madison anymore than he knows this sex worker. And I think if he did go to a sex worker before now, he would have been respectful to some degree, unlike this asshole in this episode who blew her off after she gave him her number.

This Sam is a complete and total dick on every level. I can't stand him.

from future episodes

  Reveal hidden contents

He had sex with Piper the waitress in the back of baby.  He wasn't affected by anything supernatural then. 

 

** The fact that Sarah hasn't died makes me think, no he did not.

From future episoes

  Reveal hidden contents

However that she's dead now makes me think he did.

This is very true! I take back my answer. Although the episodes for the interactions that I've bolded are ones that I've only watched once or twice so they pretty much slipped my mind.

[trxr4kids]

According to SuperWiki

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Sexual_Encounters 

the amount of sexual encounters both brothers have had is fairly even, although Dean seems to have had sex more often in early seasons as opposed to Sam who has sex more often in later seasons. Although from my count, because I disregard hallucinations and past mentions* unlike the wiki, having with sex approximately 10 people or less in a 13 to 15 year span (depending on if you count time jumps) doesn't seems particularly outlandish to me, if anything given their lives they should carpe diem the hell outta any opportunity to make like rabbits and release some happy endorphins for a change.

*I disregard past mentions because a)I can't factor in a time frame and b) Dean could just be messing with Sam.

[DeeDee79]

27 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

According to SuperWiki

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Sexual_Encounters 

the amount of sexual encounters both brothers have had is fairly even, although Dean seems to have had sex more often in early seasons as opposed to Sam who has sex more often in later seasons. Although from my count, because I disregard hallucinations and past mentions* unlike the wiki, having with sex approximately 10 people or less in a 13 to 15 year span (depending on if you count time jumps) doesn't seems particularly outlandish to me, if anything given their lives they should carpe diem the hell outta any opportunity to make like rabbits and release some happy endorphins for a change.

*I disregard past mentions because a)I can't factor in a time frame and b) Dean could just be messing with Sam.

Wow, SuperWiki keeps track of everything!

[Iju]

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

"Sex crazy"? What does that even mean? People have all kinds of variable sex drives.

Sam is not some golden boy who doesn't have sex on the regular. LOL

He kissed Sarah who he did like but didn't really know at all. Maybe he had sex with her and we don't know it.** Sam had sex with Madison after knowing her for what 3 days? He related to her and liked her. He had hot monkey sex with the doctor in Sex and Violence and was not under the influence of anything.  Sam isn't some super duper good guy who never has sex with strangers. LOL. And if he did, so what? He really didn't know Sarah or Madison anymore than he knows this sex worker. And I think if he did go to a sex worker before now, he would have been respectful to some degree, unlike this asshole in this episode who blew her off after she gave him her number.

This Sam is a complete and total dick on every level. I can't stand him.

from future episodes

  Reveal hidden contents

He had sex with Piper the waitress in the back of baby.  He wasn't affected by anything supernatural then. 

 

** The fact that Sarah hasn't died makes me think, no he did not.

From future episoes

  Reveal hidden contents

However that she's dead now makes me think he did.

for one thing i clearly put "crazy" in quotations as i am doing now, which meant i wasn't seriously using that word.

secondly, it's not as sam sleeping with women at the general subject, but how it is portrayed so far. sam's "activities" have been seen as strange which i don't understand how that adds to his soulessness. so i am in total agreement of all the examples you used. sam doing all those things with those women? seen as normal. but now the show is making it seem like it's not normal and it's because of his soulessness. i mean it would be different if the women had some traits at least we could see that differentiated fake sam and real sam. but so far i haven't seen a clear "type" for sam. so if fake sam was into asians, thicker bodies, or even strictly used hired sex, that would at least be something. but i don't see anything that would make me gasp and do a "tsk" at sam, and even if i did, how on earth would that add to his soulessness? i don't think the show has explained much if any of that so far (in my own opinion, souless sam would have no interest in sex in the first place). that's what confuses me and i hope i clarified enough for you.

P.S. still thinking on the sex thing, i think it would be a better example showing the differences would be that whole year sam was away with samuel, instead of using his "puppy dew eyes" and his harsh interrogation eyes, he would try to seduce the females they had to interview to try to get info out of them. THAT would not only make a clear difference of how sex was used between the two, but show how souless fake sam was.  idk just throwing something out there.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Iju said:

i mean it would be different if the women had some traits at least we could see that differentiated fake sam and real sam.

I think it's more that Soulless Sam has sex without thinking much about the consequences or even caring much about his partner per se beyond having sex. For example, in a future episode we learn Soulless Sam has sex

Spoiler

with a married woman - who he knows is married.

which is something regular Sam at this point would not be doing. So for me, it's a careless attitude, and it goes along with how Soulless Sam lives the rest of his life also. He doesn't much seem to care if he has an affect on anyone else as long as he gets what he wants.

[Iju]

On 23/04/2018 at 4:45 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

I think it's more that Soulless Sam has sex without thinking much about the consequences or even caring much about his partner per se beyond having sex. For example, in a future episode we learn Soulless Sam has sex

  Reveal hidden contents

with a married woman - who he knows is married.

which is something regular Sam at this point would not be doing. So for me, it's a careless attitude, and it goes along with how Soulless Sam lives the rest of his life also. He doesn't much seem to care if he has an affect on anyone else as long as he gets what he wants.

hey, your suggestion makes a lot more sense than mine, because i am so lost without it tbh lol. that is actually a more logical conclusion for what the show was proposing. as i said before i didn't know exactly what is was trying to show.

[catrox14]

On 4/23/2018 at 1:45 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

o for me, it's a careless attitude, and it goes along with how Soulless Sam lives the rest of his life also. He doesn't much seem to care if he has an affect on anyone else as long as he gets what he wants.

Was it clear whether the doctor he shagged in her office in s4 was married or not? I'm not saying she was, I just don't know.

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Was it clear whether the doctor he shagged in her office in s4 was married or not? I'm not saying she was, I just don't know.

IIRC, she mentioned that her husband had died. However, she clearly was interested in sex, since she poured a few drinks for both of them and then proceeded to seduce him. Not the other way around this time. LOL

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Was it clear whether the doctor he shagged in her office in s4 was married or not? I'm not saying she was, I just don't know.

Also in regards to the married issue

Spoiler

he did sleep with Amelia after he knew that her husband was back in the picture. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Also in regards to the married issue

  Reveal hidden contents

he did sleep with Amelia after he knew that her husband was back in the picture. 

Yup.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Also in regards to the married issue

  Reveal hidden contents

he did sleep with Amelia after he knew that her husband was back in the picture. 

Which is why I said above:

On 4/23/2018 at 4:45 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

which is something regular Sam at this point would not be doing.

...to account for the changes Carver brought to the character later on which, in my opinion, weren't otherwise relevant to this discussion.

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Was it clear whether the doctor he shagged in her office in s4 was married or not? I'm not saying she was, I just don't know.

6 hours ago, FlickChick said:

IIRC, she mentioned that her husband had died. However, she clearly was interested in sex, since she poured a few drinks for both of them and then proceeded to seduce him. Not the other way around this time. LOL

My main point was that Soulless Sam knew full well that

Spoiler

the woman in "Unforgiven" was married,

and he willfully didn't care at all. Even if the doctor in season 4 had been married - and I believe FlickChick is right that she said that she was widowed - Sam didn't know that and still sleep with her anyway. He would have been assuming - understandably - that she wasn't married.

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Which is why I said above:

...to account for the changes Carver brought to the character later on which, in my opinion, weren't otherwise relevant to this discussion.

I was actually responding to @catrox14's post, not yours. 

[DittyDotDot]

On 4/22/2018 at 12:32 PM, catrox14 said:

He had hot monkey sex with the doctor in Sex and Violence and was not under the influence of anything

He was drinking demon blood at the time, we just didn't know it yet. I thought the whole point of him having casual sex with her was to point out that Sam was off somehow. Dean sure took it as a sign he was different.

Edited May 4, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Katy M]

1. Spoiler

    

   Never mind.  I misunderstood.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Katy M

[S Cook Productions]

Well I’m doing a hellatus rewatch, so a lot of you will notice me “liking” things in eps that you commented on 4 years ago, lol. I’m trying to catch up on reading comments since I’ve only been on this fun site for a short while. So, why was Misha’s Name in this ep if he wasn’t in it??

[DeeDee79]

16 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

So, why was Misha’s Name in this ep if he wasn’t in it??

Maybe because of the scene in the previouslies when he told Dean that Sam was missing his soul? I'm guessing if their image is used they have to give them credit for using it even if they aren't in the actual episode.

Edited June 24, 2018 by DeeDee79

[S Cook Productions]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Maybe because of the scene in the previouslies when he told Dean that Sam was missing his soul? I'm guessing if their image is used they have to give them credit for using it even if they aren't in the actual episode.

Hmmm. Thanks for the quick response. That’s a good theory but I don’t think so? I’m pretty sure he has been used in the previouslies before without having to be credited... ??‍♀️

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Hmmm. Thanks for the quick response. That’s a good theory but I don’t think so? I’m pretty sure he has been used in the previouslies before without having to be credited... ??‍♀️

Wasn't Misha a regular at this point? If you're a regular do you have to be in the actual episode in order for your name to appear in the credits? I haven't paid much attention here but I do know with other shows that I've watched the names are still in the credits regardless if they're in the episode or not. 

[S Cook Productions]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Wasn't Misha a regular at this point? If you're a regular do you have to be in the actual episode in order for your name to appear in the credits? I haven't paid much attention here but I do know with other shows that I've watched the names are still in the credits regardless if they're in the episode or not. 

Yes, he was a regular but aside from this ep, his name only appears in the eps he’s actually in. 

[catrox14]

Maybe Misha did film something that was  cut at the last minute, hence the credit? I dunno just a guess.

[The Companion]

This episode had me laughing out loud. Dean's denial that it could be aliens, the Gremlins like microwaving of the fairy, Sam asking the guy if it ever occurred to him that he is bad at hunting. There were some really entertaining parts. The only thing that marred it was the homophobia. I think some of the items were borderline but the misunderstanding about a hate crime was not funny or fun to watch. I didn't buy Dean screaming about fairies as he attacked the DA (I have never seen him scream TAKE THAT, VAMPIRE). It was not necessary and even knowing Dean's intent, the visual was disturbing and hurtful. It also made the DA dropping the charges a bit horrifying (though his mysterious injuries may have contributed to that. 

Overall, I was personally able to overlook the problematic parts because the rest was so funny. Plus I loved the credits. Certainly, I totally understand feeling the opposite. 

[trudysmom]

On 4/22/2018 at 12:32 PM, catrox14 said:

"Sex crazy"? What does that even mean?

HAHAHAH, I laughed way to hard when I read this and thought 'ask David Duchovny'.  XFiles crossover, he was treated for sex addiction...anyway. Sorry, don't mean to trivialize  any kind of addiction, I just have a sick sense of humor.

[MagnusHex]

That X-Files opening killed me. "The truth is in there." LMAO I kinda knew this was gonna be a fun episode, but goddamn.

I love how, despite the existence of demons, angels and even Norse gods, UFOs always become too much of a stretch for Sam and Dean.

One thing you gotta give Jared Padalecki credit for is how well he played Soulless Sam, something a lot of people seem to agree on. After Dean gets aliennapped, he just accepts the drink from the waitress with a smile and checks her assets out, playing well a person told to fake his emotions. That's a hard balance to straddle, but I think Sam has been nailing it so far this season. Jared's reading of "Do you have bigger cups?" was great.

And I know it's been said to death, and I know I said that the Soulless Sam arc could use a little more meat, but I do like Soulless Sam for not only the refreshing dynamic of Sam being the pragmatic one and Dean the empathetic one, but also how Sam is basically Sherlock now - Cumberbatch, not Jeremy Brett or Downey - the stoic but crass, no-nonsense robot that even Spock would raise a brow at. "Have you considered the possibility that you suck at hunting UFOs?" Sherlock would usually follow this up with, "What? I was telling him the truth. Isn't it kind?" Another great quote by Sam that could have easily been said by Cumberlock: "Better run, man. I think the fourth kind is a butt thing."

Robert Picardo played a great Leprechaun with all the mischievous mannerisms and posture that come with the role. I gotta say, this is easily one of the best monster-kills of the show just because of how freaking hilarious it is, that the salt-counting actually works.

Lastly: King Oberon. I've played so much Shin Megami Tensei that I would have loved to see King Oberon appear this episode instead of just being mentioned. Also, no mention of Queen Titania? Midsummer Night's Dream? 😛

4/5 for this fun ep by Ben Edlund.

[DeeDee79]

15 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Jared's reading of "Do you have bigger cups?" was great.

If I'm not mistaken, Jared actually adlibbed this line. 

15 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Soulless Sam for not only the refreshing dynamic of Sam being the pragmatic one and Dean the empathetic one

I didn't really see it as a role reversal. Dean's always been empathetic and Soulless Sam leaned more towards heartless than pragmatic overall. Just my opinion.

[MagnusHex]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I didn't really see it as a role reversal. Dean's always been empathetic and Soulless Sam leaned more towards heartless than pragmatic overall. Just my opinion.

True. I've always liked larger than life characters who would do anything for the greater good though, heartless or not. Makes for entertaining fiction at least. While playing Mass Effect, for example, I would often go for a Renegade run as FemShep, no matter how heartless it gets.

Relevant:

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by MagnusHex