Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[zoeysmom]

Cookie is a living, feeling creature.  It saddens me to hear people talk about her like she is an old pair of shoes that Jason was free to just cast aside once they were of no personal value to him any more.  

 

Divorce or no divorce, he has an obligation as a civilized human being to treat that dog fairly.  What he did was not fair.  That apartment was as much her home as it was his.  He had no right to treat her that way.  He used her to hurt Bethenny, and that says more about him than I needed to know. 

You are the one coming up with these dire circumstances.  The dog was in a confined space-Bethenny elected to remove herself from the apartment without taking her dog.  For whatever reason Jason was not comfortable caring for the dog that night.  I am sure she received excellent care at the dog hotel. It is not as if he Duck Phillips'd the dog and opened the front door of the building and set her loose.  We don't know-was Cookie barking all night depriving Bryn and Jason of sleep?  No one knows what his motives or reasons were-the cruel one to the animal was Bethenny for not taking care of her animal.   Jason has no moral or legal duty to Bethenny's dog.

[sleekandchic]

All I can say is I hope beyond hope that Bethenny not badmouth Jason to their daughter, and that Jason not badmouth Bethenny either. Give that kid a fighting chance to feel true love and security in her life.

I believe tomorrow's episode will feature a Dr Amador mini session. In the preview, B seems to get angry with him for his feedback on last week's stepfather reunion. Im interested in seeing and understanding that tidbit.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Jason has no moral or legal duty to Bethenny's dog.

 

Wow.  I will just let that statement hang there.  It speaks for itself. 

[WireWrap]

Cookie is a living, feeling creature.  It saddens me to hear people talk about her like she is an old pair of shoes that Jason was free to just cast aside once they were of no personal value to him any more.  

 

Divorce or no divorce, he has an obligation as a civilized human being to treat that dog fairly.  What he did was not fair.  That apartment was as much her home as it was his.  He had no right to treat her that way.  He used her to hurt Bethenny, and that says more about him than I needed to know. 

Do you know that he did this for a fact or are you solely going on Bethenny and her paid employees story? Is there any independent corroboration from the kennel he placed her in? Is it possible that there could have been good reason to do this, if he did, outside Bethennys story?  Again, we are only heard 1 side of a contentious child custody battle because the other side never got the chance to defend themselves because the complaining side settled directly after making these allegations in court.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I am going by her sworn court statement, which is good enough for me.  I think this is an odd thing to commit perjury over. 

 

I guess we will have to wait until after the divorce is final and the gag order is lifted so Jason can explain his actions.  I can't wait to hear his "side."

 

 

 

If anyone treated the dog like an old pair of shoes, it's Beth. Especially since she's been going on and on in the press about how awful Jason is.

 

I guess maybe she just didn't think he would sink that low.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[breezy424]

Cookie is a living, feeling creature.  It saddens me to hear people talk about her like she is an old pair of shoes that Jason was free to just cast aside once they were of no personal value to him any more.  

 

Divorce or no divorce, he has an obligation as a civilized human being to treat that dog fairly.  What he did was not fair.  That apartment was as much her home as it was his.  He had no right to treat her that way.  He used her to hurt Bethenny, and that says more about him than I needed to know. 

 

No one is talking about Cookie as an old pair of shoes to just cast aside.  However, I can't say the same about the 'elder' and 'old' Hoppys'.  I don't ever remember Jason being anything but caring about Cookie.  He was the one who walked her.  He was always affectionate toward Cookie.  The point is that there was only one side given in Beth's testimony - one with an agenda. 

[WireWrap]

I am going by her sworn court statement, which is good enough for me.  I think this is an odd thing to commit perjury over. 

 

I guess we will have to wait until after the divorce is final and the gag order is lifted so Jason can explain his actions.  I can't wait to hear his "side."

Like no one lies, exaggerates or misleads in child custody cases.....Please. It is awfully suspicious that Bethenny was so eager to settle this directly after her testimony but before Jason's lawyers got to cross examine her and before he got on the stand to tell his side. I doubt she had some kind of epiphany in those few hours after that she was wrong and joint custody was/is best.

 

And, IMO, I hope he keeps his mouth shut about what life with Bethenny was really like for him because going public will only hurt Bryn in the end. Someone needs to keep things private for no other reason than putting Bryn first.

[zoeysmom]

I am going by her sworn court statement, which is good enough for me.  I think this is an odd thing to commit perjury over. 

 

I guess we will have to wait until after the divorce is final and the gag order is lifted so Jason can explain his actions.  I can't wait to hear his "side."

 

 

 

 

I guess maybe she just didn't think he would sink that low.

The difference is Jason doesn't want to go public-he hasn't throughout the proceedings.  His family has been harmed, his reputation has been harmed and he is the one that would like to now give his daughter a shot at a life outside of being on a TV show.  There is zero to gain by telling his side.  I support a parent who doesn't want to throw dirt just to make themselves a bigger person or more sympathetic.  Bethenny's situation is different she feels she needs to get her story out to the public because she thrives on public adulation.  They are just two very different people who need to find a way to co-parent.

 

Maybe if Bethenny had family or friends Jason could have just called one of them to pick up the dog instead of having to find a hotel for the dog.  Then again Bethenny having friends is a big IF.

[Celia Rubenstein]

It is awfully suspicious that Bethenny was so eager to settle this directly after her testimony but before Jason's lawyers got to cross examine her and before he got on the stand to tell his side. I doubt she had some kind of epiphany in those few hours after that she was wrong and joint custody was/is best.

 

I've seen this suggested many times.  I don't know why it is assumed that Bethenny was afraid to be cross examined. Or to let Jason testify.  It is quite possible Jason was the one who was afraid of moving ahead at that point, so he acquiesced on some other key issue to avoid proceeding and eventually having to take the stand himself, and that is why Bethenny settled the custody with him.  She may have got something she really wanted in exchange for dropping things at that point. Something a lot more valuable than being able to tell a few Jason anecdotes on the stand. 

 

It is totally possible that is what happened.

[WireWrap]

I've seen this suggested many times.  I don't know why it is assumed that Bethenny was afraid to be cross examined. Or to let Jason testify.  It is quite possible Jason was the one who was afraid of moving ahead at that point, so he acquiesced on some other key issue to avoid proceeding and eventually having to take the stand himself, and that is why Bethenny settled the custody with him.  She may have got something she really wanted in exchange for dropping things at that point. Something a lot more valuable than being able to tell a few Jason anecdotes on the stand. 

 

It is totally possible that is what happened.

Name me 1 time that Jason has told stories about or bashed Bethenny in the press. Is there 1 time where he put his side out there at all? Jason has been quiet about it, as have his parents and their family/friends even though Bethenny made some nasty accusations against Jason and the Hoppy's. IMO, they put their love for Bryn ahead of everything said about them.

 

Of course it is possible that Jason could not refute Bethenny's accusations but the timing of her settling speaks more to her fear of being exposed as the angry, controlling manipulator in the marriage, much more than Jason being the demon she professes he is. Also, the judge did not need to "advise" Jason to adjust his demands, that was Bethenny.

[breezy424]

I've seen this suggested many times.  I don't know why it is assumed that Bethenny was afraid to be cross examined. Or to let Jason testify.  It is quite possible Jason was the one who was afraid of moving ahead at that point, so he acquiesced on some other key issue to avoid proceeding and eventually having to take the stand himself, and that is why Bethenny settled the custody with him.  She may have got something she really wanted in exchange for dropping things at that point. Something a lot more valuable than being able to tell a few Jason anecdotes on the stand. 

 

It is totally possible that is what happened.

 

What other key issue?  The issue was child custody.  That was what was before the judge in family court - family court is different from a divorce proceeding - apples to oranges.  She wanted sole custody and according to the People reporter, Jason wanted shared custody.  The next day it was announced that they agreed to shared custody. 

[zoeysmom]

I've seen this suggested many times.  I don't know why it is assumed that Bethenny was afraid to be cross examined. Or to let Jason testify.  It is quite possible Jason was the one who was afraid of moving ahead at that point, so he acquiesced on some other key issue to avoid proceeding and eventually having to take the stand himself, and that is why Bethenny settled the custody with him.  She may have got something she really wanted in exchange for dropping things at that point. Something a lot more valuable than being able to tell a few Jason anecdotes on the stand. 

 

It is totally possible that is what happened.

Custody settled.  The property and support are still  at issue. 

 

Name me 1 time that Jason has told stories about or bashed Bethenny in the press. Is there 1 time where he put his side out there at all? Jason has been quiet about it, as have his parents and their family/friends even though Bethenny made some nasty accusations against Jason and the Hoppy's. IMO, they put their love for Bryn ahead of everything said about them.

 

Of course it is possible that Jason could not refute Bethenny's accusations but the timing of her settling speaks more to her fear of being exposed as the angry, controlling manipulator in the marriage, much more than Jason being the demon she professes he is. Also, the judge did not need to "advise" Jason to adjust his demands, that was Bethenny.

 

The problem with Bethenny's case in chief is it did nothing to cast doubt on Jason's ability as a parent.  If you break the dog allegation down there are no teeth in it.  The dog was safe at all times-Bethenny and her assistant not finding the dog's whereabouts until after midnight is irrelevant.  Maybe Jason was with his child and turned his phone off. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by zoeysmom

[Celia Rubenstein]

Wirewrap I don't understand your post. I never mentioned Jason saying anything in the press.  I don't know what you are talking about, or what you mean by Jason being advised to adjust his demands by the judge or Bethenny or anybody. ???

 

 

Of course it is possible that Jason could not refute Bethenny's accusations but the timing of her settling speaks more to her fear of being exposed

 

I don't agree.  I've been in a lot of courtrooms.  You'd be surprised at why things suddenly settle.  It's not always for the reason you might think.

 

What other key issue?  The issue was child custody.  That was what was before the judge in family court - family court is different from a divorce proceeding - apples to oranges.

 

Just because that was what was in front of the judge doesn't mean that is all Bethenny and Jason's discussions and negotiations were limited to.  They had many other issues to settle.  It could have been something entirely separate.  

 

I actually like to think Bethenny got something from Jason by ending the custody case, because it means Jason would have given up something for nothing, since they were always going to share custody anyway, lol.  That was just a given. 

 

 

The problem with Bethenny's case in chief is it did nothing to cast doubt on Jason's ability as a parent.  If you break the dog allegation down there are no teeth in it.  The dog was safe at all times-Bethenny and her assistant not finding the dog's whereabouts until after midnight is irrelevant.  

 

I never said what happened with Cookie would have any effect on their custody case. I just said it made Jason look like an asshole to me.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[OhGromit]

Putting a dog in a room with food, water, and a bed is not cruel.  Taking a dog to a kennel is not cruel.  Cookie is a pain in the ass.  Bethenny wasn't home.  I love dogs.  I'd do the same damn thing if I had to deal with an annoying dog like Cookie, especially if she wasn't settling down or was being a pain.  I'm not a fan of crating dogs, but people do it all the time without being accused of animal cruelty.  What Jason did was much more lenient than crating, for goodness' sakes.  

[LotusFlower]

 

Just because that was what was in front of the judge doesn't mean that is all Bethenny and Jason's discussions and negotiations were limited to.  

Yes it does. Child custody was the only issue before the judge.

They had many other issues to settle.  It could have been something entirely separate.   

No, there were no other issues before this judge to settle. Their divorce case is a separate case, with a different judge.

[OhGromit]

I'm a lawyer and I absolutely agree that what happened was that Bethenny testified, then settled, so she could control what was reported about her home life with Jason.  Bethenny lives for public adulation, and this was a strategy geared to control the message delivered to the public.  She absolutely knew, and I'm sure was counseled, that the best thing she could do if she wanted the public to believe that she's the victim in this relationship, was to testify and then offer Jason joint custody.  At that point, the custody battle is over.  She didn't want to be cross examined.  She didn't want Jason to testify.  She didn't want any other version of events being reported to the public.  Bottom line.

 

If you care about your child, and you're offered the custody arrangement you're fighting for, no way do you put the decisions in the hands of a judge-- a fallible human-- when what you want is being offered to you now.  In my view, Jason cared too much about Bryn to turn the offer down.  He's not famous, doesn't get his money living in the public eye and has nothing to gain from having his version of events published in People magazine. Unlike Bethenny, who had a publicity agenda.  She has always had a need to have the "public" know that Jason wasn't perfect, that he was not a good husband, and so on.  

 

If Jason and the Hoppys were truly awful, they'd be selling stories to US Weekly, In Touch, and any other rag with $50k to throw at them.  That they're not doing that says a lot about their good character.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by OhGromit

[WireWrap]

Wirewrap I don't understand your post. I never mentioned Jason saying anything in the press.  I don't know what you are talking about, or what you mean by Jason being advised to adjust his demands by the judge or Bethenny or anybody. ???

 

 

 

I don't agree.  I've been in a lot of courtrooms.  You'd be surprised at why things suddenly settle.  It's not always for the reason you might think.

 

My comment was addressing that we have yet to hear Jason's "side" of anything, the custody or the now on going divorce, at all. The only side we have heard from is Bethenny's side, in court, in the press, on her talk show, from her employee's, and now on the NY show the digs at Jason keep coming from her. He has not said 1 word against her yet. I give him respect/credit for doing that. I tend to believe that Bethenny settled custody to stop his side from coming out because he has maintained silence this whole time, unlike Bethenny.

 

But, you were not in that courtroom nor were you privy to why she settled, nor was I, so no matter what you have seen/heard in other cases does not mean it applies here. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Lotus, just because custody was at issue in the courtroom does not mean they were not free to haggle about other matters in the back room and make some kind of deal about something entirely separate which caused Bethenny choose to agree to shared custody.  I don't know how to explain it any better than that. 

 

But, you were not in that courtroom nor were you privy to why she settled, nor was I, so no matter what you have seen/heard in other cases does not mean it applies here.

 

 

Yes.  And likewise what you suspect happened is not necessarily the truth, either.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

Lotus, just because custody was at issue in the courtroom does not mean they were not free to haggle about other matters in the back room and make some kind of deal about something entirely separate which caused Bethenny choose to agree to shared custody.  I don't know how to explain it any better than that. 

 

 

Yes.  And likewise what you suspect happened is not necessarily the truth, either.  

For what purpose does Jason need to worry about his public persona? Who is the person that needs to maintain how they are viewed by the public? Who makes money off of/from fans? That would be Bethenny. JMO

[OhGromit]

If Beth were cross-examined, she has a lot more to lose than Jason does. Her businesses, her media personality could all stand to suffer. This is an instance of an omission being more revealing than an admission. The public can read between the lines or drink the Skinny Girl sugar-free Kool-Aid. If she had nothing to hide, there is no reason why she would not go forward with the cross-examination. They can be brutal. *I* would not want to be cross-examined in a custody dispute. I'd settle right away. YMMV.

 

Totally agree.  

[LotusFlower]

Lotus, just because custody was at issue in the courtroom does not mean they were not free to haggle about other matters in the back room and make some kind of deal about something entirely separate which caused Bethenny choose to agree to shared custody.  I don't know how to explain it any better than that. 

Maybe the lawyers met in some back room to discuss the new summer associates or the downhill slide of the courthouse cafeteria food, but Bethenny and Jason and their lawyers did not engage in any negotiations beyond child custody.

[sleekandchic]

And both Jason's parents were scheduled to testify after Jason. Although Bethenny acts contemptuous toward the parents, Im going to guess that she would not have wanted to hear any harsh critiques from them, aka Truths, in open court.

[Celia Rubenstein]

The public can read between the lines or drink the Skinny Girl sugar-free Kool-Aid. If she had nothing to hide, there is no reason why she would not go forward with the cross-examination.

 

So anyone who doesn't agree with you is drinking the kool aid?  Come now.  Your opinion is one way to look at it.  But there are other ways to view it that are just as valid.  

 

Maybe the lawyers met in some back room to discuss the new summer associates or the downhill slide of the courthouse cafeteria food, but Bethenny and Jason and their lawyers did not engage in any negotiations beyond child custody.

 

 

I don't know how you can say that unless you were there. 

[OhGromit]

Celia, I just want to add that I totally respect how you're defending Bethenny here.  I am with you that she is damaged, and that she's not to blame for how deeply she was hurt as a child and teenager.  I'm a huge Alice Miller fan if that means anything to you.  I'm also absolutely in the camp that believes she is acting out her old trauma, and she can't help that.  Yes, even as an adult, even as a 44-year old.  The problem I see is that Bethenny (IMO) hasn't gotten the right kind of deep help she needs.  That Dr. Amador is too lame, and too lacking in deep understanding of childhood trauma.  So what I'm seeing now is that Bethenny is an unhealed adult child who is really foisting her inner shiz on some people who don't deserve it.  I think the Hoppys are good people, and that Bethenny misread the situation. I think Bethenny has trouble acquiring and maintaining intimate relationships-- including friendships.  But I don't see it as her fault, not really.  I think it's really sad, and that she can heal, could heal, maybe will heal if she gets the right kind of help.  Right now, she's addicted to work and fame-- in my view. And I think her fame addiction is keeping her from really addressing her issues with the right kind of therapist.   But I still respect her and can't imagine how much stress she must be under.  I just also think she's incredibly hard to deal with b/c of her unresolved issues.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by OhGromit

[missy jo]

Bethenny's situation is different she feels she needs to get her story out to the public because she thrives on public adulation.

 

 

I think the only possible reason that this mega-rich young mother with huge business obligations would take time out to do a reality show is to get her side of the story out there and bash Jason. We've already heard her talk at length over the hell she has supposedly been through and how awful her marriage was. A hell of her own making, IMO.

 

Kudos to Jason for not airing any dirty laundry, keeping his head down, and soldiering through.

[LotusFlower]

I don't know how you can say that unless you were there.

Because I know how theses things work. See below:

If I had prepped to litigate child custody and the other side wanted to work on some extrinsic issue behind the scenes, I'd probably refuse due to not being prepared. It would be a disservice to my client and it's kind of unprofessional. These court dates are on the calendar for weeks or months in advance and the attorneys are preparing for the issue at hand.

Exactly.

[biakbiak]

Bless your heart! You called Bethenny young!

[Celia Rubenstein]

If I had prepped to litigate child custody and the other side wanted to work on some extrinsic issue behind the scenes, I'd probably refuse due to not being prepared. It would be a disservice to my client and it's kind of unprofessional. These court dates are on the calendar for weeks or months in advance and the attorneys are preparing for the issue at hand.

 

Oh, I don't know.  Divorce cases are really a whole kit-and-caboodle thing.  They are rarely as stratified as you suggest.  It's not hard to work on all the issues at once.  Property and custody issues and negotiations overlap more often then not. 

 

Celia, I just want to add that I totally respect how you're defending Bethenny here.  I am with you that she is damaged, and that she's not to blame for how deeply she was hurt as a child and teenager.  I'm a huge Alice Miller fan if that means anything to you.  I'm also absolutely in the camp that believes she is acting out her old trauma, and she can't help that.  Yes, even as an adult, even as a 44-year old.  The problem I see is that Bethenny (IMO) hasn't gotten the right kind of deep help she needs.  That Dr. Amador is too lame, and too lacking in deep understanding of childhood trauma.  So what I'm seeing now is that Bethenny is an unhealed adult child who is really foisting her inner shiz on some people who don't deserve it.  I think the Hoppys are good people, and that Bethenny misread the situation. I think Bethenny has trouble acquiring and maintaining intimate relationships-- including friendships.  But I don't see it as her fault, not really.  I think it's really sad, and that she can heal, could heal, maybe will heal if she gets the right kind of help.  Right now, she's addicted to work and fame-- in my view. And I think her fame addiction is keeping her from really addressing her issues with the right kind of therapist.   But I still respect her and can't imagine how much stress she must be under.  I just also think she's incredibly hard to deal with b/c of her unresolved issues.  

 

 

Thanks for that, Gromit.  I agree with everything you said (except for maybe the part about the Hoppys who annoyed the piss out of me, lol).  I especially agree with the part about her not getting the help she needs.  To the extent that she is appearing on Bravo shows, and wasting her time seeing that ridiculous Dr. Amadork, I think it is absolutely keeping her from getting the help she seems to need.  

 

It's funny I am defending her, or at least questioning all these things people assume about her. I don't really like her, lol.  Honestly! She was okay enough up until I think season 2 (?) ... I thought she and Jill were funny.  But when she badmouthed Alex in the press saying the SkinnyGirl logo Alex designed was lame or unprofessional or something, she lost me.  I thought that was the height of shittiness.  Alex had been nothing but good to her.  I just felt she was so mean to say those things.  I never looked at her the same way after that.

[sleekandchic]

What I don't understand about Bethenny at this juncture is why she has never sought psychoanalysis or psychoanalytically-oriented psychotherapy. She told us during her spinoffs that Dr Amador was her first attempt at "therapy," but even that was only for her show. They did not meet in private, and after her show ended, Amador also ended. B resumed her relationship with him expressly for this season of RH.

Bethenny is highly intelligent, educated, well-traveled and exposed to some of the best cultural and recreational experiences money can buy. She's also funny and incisive in her observations of people and events, and her irreverence and bluntness are quintessential NYC, which I know and love and respect. I also love her fashion sense.

In addition to all that, though, I give credit to Bethenny for being acutely self-aware of what drives her, what propels her to success and what stands in her way of happiness and fulfillment. There comes a point though when simply talking about being"damaged," and thus unable to fully enjoy the fruits of your labors, is pointless and hopeless. B, imo, needs a trained pro to help her.

That is, of course, depending on whether she REALLY thinks she needs help. Sometimes I do wonder if the "raised by wolves" narrative isnt just a finely-honed means to an end? If it's Bethenny's security blanket, or even her authentic core, then she is not going to be interested in letting it go ever.

And then, ultimately, Bryn will be affected, which will be very sad to me.

[LotusFlower]

Oh, I don't know. Divorce cases are really a whole kit-and-caboodle thing. They are rarely as stratified as you suggest. It's not hard to work on all the issues at once. Property and custody issues and negotiations overlap more often then not.

If you read about this case specifically, you'll see this is not true here. Bethenny and Jason separated over two years ago, and they're still not divorced. Why? Because they're fighting over everything. And Jason hired a forensic accountant to go over all the finances, which is contributing to the delay. Plus, the battle over custody of Bryn was handled separately and already adjudicated, so there was no overlap.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Just because the custody was dealt with prior to the divorce being granted doesn't mean all discussion between Bethenny and Jason concerning property was called to a halt.

 

*edited for clarity

Edited May 26, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Mozelle]

Jason and the Hoppys wanting visits every weekend bugged me because it never allowed Bethenny and Jason the time to be a family together. Plus those trips were just going to get more onerous the older Brynn got. Soon she would have birthday parties to attend, sports, or dance classes. I think it was better to establish a routine that worked rather than acquiesce to the visits and be resentful.

 

I haven't seen the season since it aired, so my memory could very well be foggy, but it seemed that Jason wanted to visit his parents every other weekend (?) and have Bryn along, too. It would be one thing if his parents lived in northern New Jersey, but leaving NYC to go to Pennsylvania twice a month seemed a lot, especially when you consider bringing along an infant. 

 

I thought that was what the disagreement was about because Jason on his own during their dating lives (pre-Bryn) would go to down to Pennsylvania a couple times a month to see his folks. I mean, we also have to take into consideration that Bryn was an infant at the time. There's so much more to think about there.

[LotusFlower]

Just because the custody was dealt with prior to the divorce being granted doesn't mean all discussion between Bethenny and Jason concerning property was called to a halt.

Nobody said property issues were called to a halt. Simply that the issues surrounding property and custody didn't overlap, and no "back room" deals were made. Obviously. Look at the facts - Jason is still living in the apt., and Bethenny is publicly bitching about it and privately fighting him over it.

[zoeysmom]

I haven't seen the season since it aired, so my memory could very well be foggy, but it seemed that Jason wanted to visit his parents every other weekend (?) and have Bryn along, too. It would be one thing if his parents lived in northern New Jersey, but leaving NYC to go to Pennsylvania twice a month seemed a lot, especially when you consider bringing along an infant. 

 

I thought that was what the disagreement was about because Jason on his own during their dating lives (pre-Bryn) would go to down to Pennsylvania a couple times a month to see his folks. I mean, we also have to take into consideration that Bryn was an infant at the time. There's so much more to think about there.

I think what it amounted to is Bethenny did not want to tie herself to her in-laws for extended periods of time-as in 36 hours. Claiming to have never been raised in a conventional family it was probably terrifying to think her precious, paparazzi opportunities would be gobbled up hanging with the Hoppys.  I also got the impression that having the Hoppys over to the nightmare Bethenny carved out for Bryn's first home wasn't an option. Bethenny's priorities were a home with a staffed office and the ability to work any time of the day or night.  Knowing what I know now that Bethenny had 22 million dollars it would seem she could have settled for a much larger leased space.  Between the baby nurse, the baby, at least two to three staffers, she and Jason and the ever present camera crew and producers it was chaos by design.  If the Hoppys were to come into the city on a weekday their visit would be disrupting Bethenny's precious empire.

 

That left the option of travelling to PA.  The idea of being away from the pulse of the paparazzi and chilling in PA was probably too much for her.  So the obvious answer to Bethenny was to belittle Jason and then scream that he was calling her not normal.  I have no idea what the norm for grandparents seeing their children is but I would think twice a month would not be pushing it.  There was always the option of Jason taking Bryn to PA and then the Hoppys returning her after a two day visit.  I guess it is a two schools of thought-shorter more frequent visits or longer  less frequent visits. The argument seemed a little silly but I do believe the bottom line was Bethenny had zero interest in spending time with the Hoppys and for them to visit Bryn she had to be around them..

[WireWrap]

I think what it amounted to is Bethenny did not want to tie herself to her in-laws for extended periods of time-as in 36 hours. Claiming to have never been raised in a conventional family it was probably terrifying to think her precious, paparazzi opportunities would be gobbled up hanging with the Hoppys.  I also got the impression that having the Hoppys over to the nightmare Bethenny carved out for Bryn's first home wasn't an option. Bethenny's priorities were a home with a staffed office and the ability to work any time of the day or night.  Knowing what I know now that Bethenny had 22 million dollars it would seem she could have settled for a much larger leased space.  Between the baby nurse, the baby, at least two to three staffers, she and Jason and the ever present camera crew and producers it was chaos by design.  If the Hoppys were to come into the city on a weekday their visit would be disrupting Bethenny's precious empire.

 

That left the option of travelling to PA.  The idea of being away from the pulse of the paparazzi and chilling in PA was probably too much for her.  So the obvious answer to Bethenny was to belittle Jason and then scream that he was calling her not normal.  I have no idea what the norm for grandparents seeing their children is but I would think twice a month would not be pushing it.  There was always the option of Jason taking Bryn to PA and then the Hoppys returning her after a two day visit.  I guess it is a two schools of thought-shorter more frequent visits or longer  less frequent visits. The argument seemed a little silly but I do believe the bottom line was Bethenny had zero interest in spending time with the Hoppys and for them to visit Bryn she had to be around them..

I also think going to the Hoppy's in Pa would mean that her staff would have to stay behind in NY and I don't think Bethenny can survive without having her entourage in tow with her. IMO, she needs her "yes men (ladies)" around her at all times.

[sleekandchic]

Bethenny will never be the homebody type so the thought of her trekking to suburban PA two weekends a month to hang with the inlaws was probably torturous to her. There was an episode of her spinoff, pre-Bryn, where she and Jason spent a weekend with the parents and hung out with his friends at a local bar, shooting pool. B was out of her element and not happy. No way, no how, could she do those visits regularly. I dont blame her at all.

Other than the melodrama for our viewing pleasure though, I find it hard to believe that J and B could not work out a compromise or understanding off-camera about why the monthly vists were impossible for a while. There are legit reasons not to schlep an infant, for example. B knows the powers of persuasion, especially with men, and specifically with her husband.

To me, their marriage devolved into fighting for fighting's sake.

[MatildaMoody]

I agreed with Bethenny about the weekend visits. I mean every single weekend? When were she and Jason supposed to have time to bond as their own family if the Hoppys are coming into town twice a month and Jason is taking Bryn to PA twice a month. That was just way too much and Jason should have been willing to see that as a new dad.

 

Why he would think it was strange for Bethenny to want weekends where it was just the three of them as a family without his parents is just beyond me. It is something that I personally find creepy about him. That for all of his "you are damaged so you don't know how normal families behave," he never seemed to understand that normal families need to bond as their own unit as much as they should bond with extended family. 

[OhGromit]

I just don't remember Jason wanting to go every weekend.  And if he did, I don't remember him being non-negotiable about it.  I thought Bethenny's choice to have the nanny live with them in their small apartment, and to be accompanied so many places by "employees," was just as strange if not stranger.  Never mind the constant presence of cameras in their small space, with an infant.  I thought Jason was pretty tolerant of a lot of that insanity.  And Bethenny has always been the first one to talk about her not-normal childhood.  I really never saw Jason's repeating that fact to her as ugly, more as a point of explaining why she might not understand certain behaviors... like him wanting to visit his folks.  Yeah, I just don't think him wanting to visit them was "creepy."  Maybe excessive, maybe annoying, maybe not what she wanted, but not creepy.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by OhGromit

[Trooper York]

 Visiting the grand parents in a bucolic setting where you could get away from the city?

 

How dare he?

 

The bastards!

 

How dare they love their only grandchild and want to see her! What's the matter with them?

[WireWrap]

I agreed with Bethenny about the weekend visits. I mean every single weekend? When were she and Jason supposed to have time to bond as their own family if the Hoppys are coming into town twice a month and Jason is taking Bryn to PA twice a month. That was just way too much and Jason should have been willing to see that as a new dad.

 

Why he would think it was strange for Bethenny to want weekends where it was just the three of them as a family without his parents is just beyond me. It is something that I personally find creepy about him. That for all of his "you are damaged so you don't know how normal families behave," he never seemed to understand that normal families need to bond as their own unit as much as they should bond with extended family. 

Seriously, when were they ever alone in the apartment, just the 3 of them? I never saw it happen, there was always the nanny and at least 1 of her SG employees there all the time and then add in the film crew. I never heard Jason demand they see his parents every single weekend, that was said by Bethenny, not by Jason and he never confirmed it. Why should Bethenny expect Jason to not want his family in his/daughters lives just because she wants that? Where is the give and take from Bethenny, IMO, she expected Jason to give all the time without giving any herself. Bethenny is a "my way or the highway" sort of person.

 

Jason never out and out called her "damaged", he repeated what she said while trying to explain how most families operate/function. Bethenny had absolutely no interest in anything close to a normal family life, she wanted total control of not only Bryn but of Jason as well and she had zero interest in having anything to do with "extended family", zero interest IMO.

[Grneyedldy]

Seriously, when were they ever alone in the apartment, just the 3 of them? I never saw it happen, there was always the nanny and at least 1 of her SG employees there all the time and then add in the film crew. I never heard Jason demand they see his parents every single weekend, that was said by Bethenny, not by Jason and he never confirmed it. Why should Bethenny expect Jason to not want his family in his/daughters lives just because she wants that? Where is the give and take from Bethenny, IMO, she expected Jason to give all the time without giving any herself. Bethenny is a "my way or the highway" sort of person.

Jason never out and out called her "damaged", he repeated what she said while trying to explain how most families operate/function. Bethenny had absolutely no interest in anything close to a normal family life, she wanted total control of not only Bryn but of Jason as well and she had zero interest in having anything to do with "extended family", zero interest IMO.

I can't remember exactly when the scene took place, but the seeing the parents every weekend was presented as.....his parents would come to NYC twice a month and Jason wanted to spend the other two weekends at his parents, with or without Bethenny. Yes, I think that's a bit much for almost everyone, let alone Bethenny. Edited May 26, 2015 by Grneyedldy

[WireWrap]

I can't remember exactly when the scene took place, but the seeing the parents every weekend was presented as.....his parents would come to NYC twice a month and Jason wanted to spend the other two weekends at his parents, with or without Bethenny. Yes, I think that's a bit much for almost everyone, let alone Bethenny.

I must have missed that because I did not hear him say/demand that at all. Does anyone remember what episode that was on so I can watch it myself? If it did happen, what was Bethenny's solution/suggestion or did she just object to his parents seeing Bryn on a regular basis overall? 

[zoeysmom]

I must have missed that because I did not hear him say/demand that at all. Does anyone remember what episode that was on so I can watch it myself? If it did happen, what was Bethenny's solution/suggestion or did she just object to his parents seeing Bryn on a regular basis overall? 

I don't think (a) it ever happened and (b) I think Bethenny was  illustrating what could possibly happen.  I am all for if they want to come into the city and spend the better part of a day with Bryn but they would also have to understand that since Bethenny had all the apartment cluttered with staff and random people that most of their day would have to spent away from the apartment.  I honestly get not wanting to tie eight nights a month in sleepovers together with the in-laws but I don't think that ever happened.  For one thing they took a lot of trips during their marriage.  Bethenny could have also sent Jason and Bryn to PA on Friday and joined them Saturday night by having one of her assistants deliver her.  Eat breakfast and hit the road the next morning-it is a 2 1/2 hour drive.  I don't want to hear about loading the car-the Hoppys had plenty of room to have a duplicate nursery sans the baby nurse bed.  These weren't tough issues.  Bethenny outgrew Jason quickly because he was boring and she was running out of ways to remind him she was footing the bill for their lifestyle. 

 

I would be curious to know the increase in Bethenny's wealth between Bryn's conception and the pre-nup.

[Leroux]

Jason doesn't need and will never go directly to the press, it would be foolish and dumb, total opposite to the nice polish image he has worked so hard to portray.

Why would he go to give the press and give a direct statement when he can continue doing what he has done for years with no problems at all, Jason and/or his team just call Radar and give then all kinds of juicy information about Bethenny under the disguise of "inside sources" and voila, deed done.

A simple Google search about Bethenny's divorce for the last three years would give plenty of damning ROL articles against Bethenny most of them with information provided by "Inside sources" and 99% with information against Bethenny, it is quite simple to figure out who the inside sources are.

I guess in a nutshell that is what bothers me the most about Jason, his desire to have his cake and eat it too, if you have already decided that being a gold digger is the way to go, just go about it , instead he wants to pretend that this is about the daughter when that was decided more than a year ago. He acts like an asshole, embarrasses himself by acting like an asshole, requests money for his golfing trips, even for his clothes, nanny, housecleaner , etc, etc, but yet we are all supposed to think that he is the outstanding character that he played in TV?

Fuck that! The Jason we saw on TV IMO was nothing but a very crafted and smartly portrayed character who have a goal in mind and came into this marriage with a clear purpose and scored it big, which is fine, kudos to him for his hustle, just don't pretend that after all that has transpire of his shaddy behavior (made clear by a judge ruling to dismiss a trust created by him) that he gets any benefit of the doubt, a guy who creates a trust to clearly benefit personally from it and who uses his own mother to notarized a trust that she should never have does not deserve any benefit of the doubt, his agenda is clear as the day is long so I will not change my opinion about him being a shady, vicious, gold digging , malicious and vindictive POS who doesn't deseve a penny from Bethenny, (but most likely will get a small fortune )

Bethenny might be an asshole herself, which she had never hidden, she might be neurotic and OCD which she is the first to admit, but she has busted her ass working like a lunatic to made her own fortune, Jason? Jason is lucky that Bethenny was in such a needy state and fall for his hustle, Jason IMO is nothing else but the refined version of a hustler, scam artist who will be rewarded with millions for merely two years of his life yet he is the outstanding guy in shining armor? LOL

Jason is the kind of hustler our grannies warned us against, smooth but letal.

[WireWrap]

I don't think (a) it ever happened and (b) I think Bethenny was  illustrating what could possibly happen.  I am all for if they want to come into the city and spend the better part of a day with Bryn but they would also have to understand that since Bethenny had all the apartment cluttered with staff and random people that most of their day would have to spent away from the apartment.  I honestly get not wanting to tie eight nights a month in sleepovers together with the in-laws but I don't think that ever happened.  For one thing they took a lot of trips during their marriage.  Bethenny could have also sent Jason and Bryn to PA on Friday and joined them Saturday night by having one of her assistants deliver her.  Eat breakfast and hit the road the next morning-it is a 2 1/2 hour drive.  I don't want to hear about loading the car-the Hoppys had plenty of room to have a duplicate nursery sans the baby nurse bed.  These weren't tough issues.  Bethenny outgrew Jason quickly because he was boring and she was running out of ways to remind him she was footing the bill for their lifestyle. 

 

I would be curious to know the increase in Bethenny's wealth between Bryn's conception and the pre-nup.

Good Grief, we drove to my in-laws every other weekend when our son was born and it took us 2 hours each way, it was not hard to do. My son drives 2-3 hours (each way) once a month to visit his in-laws because it makes his wife/daughter happy. IMO, Bethenny made a mountain out of a mole hill over nothing.

[shoegal]

I don't think (a) it ever happened and (b) I think Bethenny was  illustrating what could possibly happen.  I am all for if they want to come into the city and spend the better part of a day with Bryn but they would also have to understand that since Bethenny had all the apartment cluttered with staff and random people that most of their day would have to spent away from the apartment.  I honestly get not wanting to tie eight nights a month in sleepovers together with the in-laws but I don't think that ever happened.  For one thing they took a lot of trips during their marriage.  Bethenny could have also sent Jason and Bryn to PA on Friday and joined them Saturday night by having one of her assistants deliver her.  Eat breakfast and hit the road the next morning-it is a 2 1/2 hour drive.  I don't want to hear about loading the car-the Hoppys had plenty of room to have a duplicate nursery sans the baby nurse bed.  These weren't tough issues.  Bethenny outgrew Jason quickly because he was boring and she was running out of ways to remind him she was footing the bill for their lifestyle. 

 

I would be curious to know the increase in Bethenny's wealth between Bryn's conception and the pre-nup.

The arrangement that Jason wanted was to visit his parents once a month in PA, and his parents would visit them in NYC once a month. So it wasn't visits with the in laws every weekend, it was every other weekend. The episode that Jason lays this out is BEA, Season 2, episode 2 called "There is no normal". It also features the scene where Jason throws it in Bethenny's face that she's damaged and not normal. Which is exactly the episode I realized that he is a gigantic asshole.

The episode I realized his parents were creepy featured a scene in the Hoppy kitchen where the grandparents start telling Bethenny that Bryn will be spending her summers with them in PA when she gets older. I will have to research what episode that one was and revisit.

[OhGromit]

I just watched that bit, where the Hoppys are acting a little desperate for more Bryn time.  It was a little much.  I agree.  On the other hand, Jason's mom was also agreeing with Bethenny that there would need to be boundaries, and they wouldn't spend all their holidays together.  But the way Bethenny dealt with it was her usual way, which was to get into "panicky honest" mode, where she lays it all out for the Hoppys a little harshly.  It did look like Jason had a strong negative reaction to Bethenny laying it all out, and it does seem like that was the nugget that started the downfall of their relationship.  I think Jason was probably overprotective of his parents, and had trouble setting boundaries (he probably has his own shiz around the issue of denying his parents, given their loss of his older brother and whatever that did to the family unit).  The Hoppys do not seem like the therapy type and probably came on too strong, courtesy of their continuing, unexpressed grief, when they met their first and only grandbaby.  Too bad Jason and Bethenny couldn't have gotten therapy about that nugget of an issue.  I think they started fighting about everything, without fully realizing that was the fundamental conflict.  Maybe they could have found a solution if they'd had help.  And Jason probably needed a little therapy to deal with the caretaking he was continuing to do vis a vis his parents.  

 

It's really sad, because notwithstanding her current claim that she knew things were wrong with Jason from the get-go-- which I frankly take as a bit of revisionist history-- she seems legitimately happy with him and Bryn around the time of her pregnancy and the birth of Bryn.  They had a good thing there, truly, for a short while.  IMO.  Of course.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by OhGromit

[shoegal]

I am re watching the first episode of BEA a Season 2, several interesting things pop out. First, Bethenny has a friend!! Lauren...the blonde with the baby. Second, Jason says himself that he feels pressure and guilt from his parents that they don't get to see Bryn enough (and as their only surviving child, that he needs to be the perfect son) Third, it was established by Bethenny on several occasions that Jason sees his parents every 2-3 weeks, this was said in front of Jason and his parents. Four, Jason's mom was fretting that Baby Bryn didn't even know who they were and Bethenny says "you just saw her last weekend!" And five, when discussing how much the grand Hoppy's want Bryn access, mama Hoppy starts clapping "every week!".

This is also the episode where grandpa Hoppy starts talking about Bryn coming yo spend the summers with them, and mama Hoppy once again drops the idea that Bryn come visit them "every week".

Edited May 27, 2015 by shoegal

[lillypforme]

I gather that the second bedroom shown is Bryn's room but it looks like a standard guest room, not that of a child! JMO

Those are the listing photos. The decor is from the previous owner. 

[sleekandchic]

So in tonight's episode, The Cavi-Art of War, 5/26/15, Bethenny told Carole that Bryn "is having a hard time right now."

Very sad; I wonder what she's referring to. I dont believe she simply means the breakup/separate living arrangements.