S10.E03: Soul Survivor

[catrox14]

I felt like the second episode was a rehash of the first. More scenes of Dean and Crowley sitting in bars talking about how the Mark needed to be fed and breaking up, again. More scenes of Cass and Hannah meandering around the countryside. More scenes of Cole looking for Dean and following Sam to find him.  I could've easily imagined these two episodes being condensed into one. Cut out the repetitive scenes and there's really only one episode of movement here, IMO. Personally, I didn't feel any buildup at all.

 

ETA: Funnily, I could also easily imagine this episode being broken into two and feel like it really needed to be.

 

 

I thought Riechenbach was really effective in showing demon!Dean's evolution (devolution?) in Black from obnoxious, punk ass party animal who beat up asshole guys and killed other demons to the much more terrifying demon who murdered a man(regardless if Lester deserved it Dean still killed a human), who is an actual threat to Crowley and threatened him to his face and shoved him across the room, to threatening to rip out Sammy's throat with his teeth leading to his desire and WILLINGNESS to kill Sam once Sam captured him and held him in the bunker.  So for me the only listless and meandering was with Cas and Hannah.

[Mulva]

I wish they'd had Sam and Dean fight it out in Stull Cemetery. It is 2014, after all.

[Hana Chan]

Dean tried to kill Sam. I don't think that fallout is over either. I think that's why Sam got the hell out of the bunker on the guise of getting food for Dean. He has to process that shit.

 

 

As much as I wanted to see a little heart to heart between the brothers, looking at the storyline as a whole (and I'm going well into the past season where it all started), I can understand now why it is probably best to give a bit of space for recovery before they try to hash out their issues. Dean is probably feeling like the biggest fool on the planet, getting himself stuck in this mess and he's still got the MoC, so he's not out of trouble by any stretch of the imagination. Sam has been through the wringer, physically and emotionally. Both of them are going to be grappling with major guilt issues over what they did in the past weeks (some of it justified, some of it just because they're Winchesters and they do self-flagellation like no one else). Neither of them are in good shape to start having that very needed talk now that I really consider it.

[catrox14]

 

I wish they'd had Sam and Dean fight it out in Stull Cemetery. It is 2014, after all.

 

Except that fight in Stull Cemetery happened in 2009. Dean was zapped to Kansas City in 2014 but then went to Michigan where he met himself and then encountered Samifer in Detroit. The End was going to be in Detroit because Lucifer had already won.

[Mulva]

True, I forgot that 2014 was in Detroit. Now I wish Sam had tracked Dean to Detroit and had a showdown there.

[Aeryn13]

 

Dean is probably feeling like the biggest fool on the planet, getting himself stuck in this mess

 

I don`t think so, I could see anger and guilt more clearly. He didn`t end up a demon through stupidity but through nihilism. If he had taken on the Mark in good faith with Cain promising him it was just gonna be a-okay and would have no negative connotations, Dean had bought that and then Cain had shown back up with a "psyche, I worked with Crowley all along, I`m awesome", then yes, he should feel like a fool.

 

But I don`t think he ever did for a second think good things would come from Crowley or good things would come with the Mark. He just didn`t care enough. It`s a very dangerous mindset - and hopefully the time as a demon gave him some perspective on that - but it wasn`t naivety or anything. And as long as he was consciously human, he didn`t want any of it. He fought it. Afterwards, it kinda played like the vamps on Vampire Diaries who have flipped their off-switch. 

 

One thing I did like (a tiny thing) was Dean not looking particularly happy to be back. Not because his human self necessarily wanted/wants to be a demon but because the absence of pain has to be preferable. At least now that the character has felt how it can be, he is not so much of a masochist that he welcomes the suffering back. i  

[SueB]

 

demon!Dean called Sam a monster but "Hello...demon!", he's going for whatever makes Sam FEEL the worst to get him to react and put chinks in his armor. That doesn't make it true.

Exactly.  This story is far from over but I saw nothing suggested that Dean's actions were whitewashed.  He even used the term "murder" in Reichenbach when talking with Lester.  Not "kill" or "gank" but "murder".  I could argue that they Abaddon loyalists were "ganks" because 1) they were demons and 2) they attacked Dean. But Dean went out to murder Mindy.  He murdered Lester instead.  Just because Lester was an asshole and sold his soul doesn't make him a monster. He was a human Demon!Dean murdered.

 

Personally I believe that Mindy was a test for Dean (by Crowley). Sam had Lester make that deal 4 weeks prior to the bulk of the events in "Black". Since when does it take that long for a crossroad's deal to be enacted?  Crowley could have picked any other low-hanging fruit kill for Dean to get his murder-on. But he didn't. He held off until he made sure Dean was strung-out in Reichenbach and then offered up Mindy.  He revealed Sam's involvement prior to Dean going off and doing the murder ("there's something you ought know...").  So... Dean knew this was Sam's mess when he went there. Perhaps Crowley thought it would intrigue Dean more knowing Sam was involved.  IDK. But he did it on purpose I'm sure.

 

 

Does anyone really care that Sam used the guy that wanted to kill his wife to summon a demon?

I am.  That's like handing a kid a loaded gun and being surprised it didn't work out well.  Now it's a fascinating choice because we once again have someone (Lester) acting as unwitting bait.  That's right out of the Soulless Sam playbook.  And I'm sure that's intentional. So, if Sam had used a civilain and made him witting to act as bait -- then no problem what-so-ever.  What Sam did was not only tell Lester he could have his revenge if he sold his soul, he did every step of the ritual except say the words.  And even then they made a point of having Sam correct his crappy Latin.   So Sam's hands are completely dirty in what happened to Lester.  Now... how HORRIBLE is that?  Well Lester lost his soul, so that's pretty horrible in my book.  On the other hand, that wasn't Sam's intent.  Sam intended call the demon and stop the process.  Even Demon!Dean acknowledged that this was Sam's intent. But at the end of the day Lester is dead (via Dean) and his soul is going to hell (NOT because Mindy died but because he sold his soul and died with murder in his heart). It's theoretically possible Lester didn't go to hell but I don't think that's probable. He was a murderous scumbag who attempted to sell his soul to have his wife killed out of revenge.  Not really a resume for Heaven. 

 

But let's be clear, Sam did something really wrong but it was Dean who actually murdered the guy.  They've made it grey enough to not have either of our heroes completely over a line fans can's tolerate. But personally, I expect the show to treat Sam's choice to use Lester as a pretty bad moral act.  And Dean's actions as a demon as something he's ultimately accountable for because he took on the Mark while actively ignoring the consequences. Dean assumed the consequences would only be for him.  But Lester is dead because Dean was a demon. It's all 'Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda' on whether or not Lester was due for an early grave and Hell without the Winchester Brothers.  Seems likely he would have ended up in the same place eventually.  But that doesn't actually matter for Sam and Dean -- they sped Lester on his way and the schmuck was just a pawn in their lives.    That's not a good thing or even a neutral thing in my book. That's a bad thing.  As to who was worse?  Meh. I'd probably finger Dean over Sam.  But neither hands are clean.

 

 

Seriously, that was it? We are done with Demon!Dean?

I don't think so. Show made a big point out of the MoC being an issue.  If Dean dies again, he's back to a demon. I don't think the Mark will let him die.  BEFORE his resurrection he was starting to exhibit exceptional hunting skills and telekinesis with the Blade.  Crowley has the Blade but no way is he destroying it.  He wants his BFF back I think. Dean didn't work out as a demon but it's leverage for Crowley and he won't give it up.  

[echo]

--I'm not 100% convinced we've seen the last of demon!Dean or what kinds of shitty things he did that we didn't see on screen. But please show, do not let there be any rapey stuff even with demon!Dean.  That's a bridge too far.

I agree that they just cannot go there because if they do, that is way too far for even Demon!Dean. I'm an avid Buffy fan and they went there with Spike, but he had been a monster for over a century and a half. I was okay with the way they handled it. Those writers had to push him almost beyond redemption in order for him to really earn it when he gained a soul and helped save the world. But, speaking of souls, Spike was a soulless demon when he attempted to rape Buffy. Which brings me to...

 

What is the status of Dean's soul? Does Demon!Dean have a soul? (I remain unconvinced that he's cured of demondom.) Or as others have postulated, being a demon twisted his soul, and now that he's "cured" his soul is back to normal?

[Aeryn13]

 

And Dean's actions as a demon as something he's ultimately accountable for because he took on the Mark while actively ignoring the consequences.

He was still a demon and as such his actions were not entirely of his own human volition. I would find it deeply annoying that whenever Sam strays off the path, the whitewash and supernatural "it wasn`t really him" excuse is immediately grabbed (even Sam on demon blood got pawned off on Dean for being mean) yet human Dean gets pinged as 100 % demon Dean, no wriggle room whatsoever.

 

I agree that whatever happened with Lester wasn`t all that much to write home about in terms of villainhood. In terms of evil acts Dean could have commited as a demon, he never did anything that I wouldn`t categorize as a 0,5 on the evil scale. He was a demon, I would have given him a few slaughters without raising a fuzz since Cain had centuries of them. Sam acted as a human, not altered in any way this time so morality-wise, I would hold him to a higher standard than any demon but even so, they have each done worse before. 

[catrox14]

That's like handing a kid a loaded gun and being surprised it didn't work out well. Now it's a fascinating choice because we once again have someone (Lester) acting as unwitting

bait. That's right out of the Soulless Sam playbook. And I'm sure that's intentional. So, if Sam had used a civilain and made him witting to act as bait -- then no problem what-so-ever. What Sam did was not only tell Lester he could have his revenge if he sold his soul, he did every step of the ritual except say the words. And even then they made a point of having Sam correct his crappy Latin. So Sam's hands are completely dirty in what happened to Lester. Now... how HORRIBLE is that? Well Lester lost his soul, so that's pretty horrible in my book.

Lester is not a child. He wasn't innocent here. He's a full grown adult who actively chose to follow Sams lead. As lousy as it was that Sam used him as bait, Lesters intent was to find a way to off his wife. If he wasn't looking to off his wife none of this happens. So I just don't have any sympathy for him. It's a shady thing Sam did but it's not Sams fault that Lester made the deal or that Dean killed him.

Edited October 24, 2014 by catrox14

[SueB]

 

What is the status of Dean's soul? Does Demon!Dean have a soul? (I remain unconvinced that he's cured of demondom.) Or as others have postulated, being a demon twisted his soul, and now that he's "cured" his soul is back to normal?

I think it's pretty clear. Dean's soul has always been in Dean and present. Crowley specifically said it was "twisted".  The term I personally would use is "corrupted". Deans' soul was corrupted as part of the resurrection process triggered by the MoC. Sam cured Dean's soul in "Soul Survivor". And by cure, I mean he re-sanctified it using sanctified blood. Using Crowley's terms, he untwisted it.  As I see it:

pre MOC - Dean's a normal human with a normal soul (battered perhaps but still normal)

MoC - the Mark starts feeding physical effects into Dean, amping him up to violence. Dean's soul is ok.

MoC and Blade combined post Abaddon kill - Physical effects are so bad Dean is slowly dying, hacking up bloody bits. He's not eating either.Dean's soul is ok but I think it may be under attack.  He say's "I don't like what I'm becoming."

Dean's death - The Mark (potentially with the Blade as a trigger), resurrects Dean.  Dean's soul is completely corrupted. His eyes are black. He's a demon.

Dean is "cured" - The sanctified blood and ritual apparently removed the corruption from his soul and his eyes are back to normal. He's not a demon.  I don't know what his physical state is but he wants to eat. That seems like back to before he was in the "hacking up blood" stage. 

[Mcolleague]

In real life, what would be comparable to what Sam did? Give a misogynous asshole who indicated a desire for violence the contact of a hitman? Like, legally, I wonder how this would be treated, and what would be his level of culpability IRL? 

 

I couldn't care less about Lester's soul, he was the one who chose to make the deal. However, Sam's gamble impacted not only Lester, but also his wife, who was NOT deserving of whatever consequences there might have been. Sam saw Lester make the deal, but did nothing to protect Lester's wife after, didn't even send another hunter, just left her vulnerable. Demon Dean could just as easily have killed her. If Crowley sent a different demon to seal the deal, it's even more guaranteed that she would have been killed. Did Sam not anticipate this possibility? Or was he too focused on his goal to care about her?  I think this aspect of it actually was kind of dark.  

[catrox14]

I think Dean wanting to eat is not necessarily a sign that he is cured. Cain was making dinner as Dean was brawling with those demons in First Born

Or was he too focused on his goal to care about her? I think this aspect of it actually was kind of dark.

This is a good point I didn't think about. I think he was just obsessed with finding Dean just like he was obsessive in s2 and s4

Edited October 24, 2014 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

I think this aspect of it actually was kind of dark.

 

You are right, the Mindy part is sketchy. At least if you use someone as bait this way and don`t give a crap about them, at least try and keep the hit from happening.

 

How ironic that Demon!Dean migitated that part of it but not killing her. 

[SueB]

 

However, Sam's gamble impacted not only Lester, but also his wife, who was NOT deserving of whatever consequences there might have been.

Excellent point.

 

 

How ironic that Demon!Dean migitated that part of it but not killing her.

Ironic or an indication that Crowley was right. Dean was still on the fence.  A full-on darkside Demon!Dean would have killed Mindy just for kicks.

[catrox14]

Ironic or an indication that Crowley was right. Dean was still on the fence. A full-on darkside Demon!Dean would have killed Mindy just for kicks.

Not necessarily. Dean might have still killed Mindy if not for Lester being a douchebag that irritated Dean more than Dean caring what happened to Mindy

Edited October 24, 2014 by catrox14

[echo]

Sort of spoiler-y words from Jensen @ EW.

[Pete Martell]

I felt like the second episode was a rehash of the first. More scenes of Dean and Crowley sitting in bars talking about how the Mark needed to be fed and breaking up, again. More scenes of Cass and Hannah meandering around the countryside. More scenes of Cole looking for Dean and following Sam to find him.  I could've easily imagined these two episodes being condensed into one. Cut out the repetitive scenes and there's really only one episode of movement here, IMO. Personally, I didn't feel any buildup at all.

 

ETA: Funnily, I could also easily imagine this episode being broken into two and feel like it really needed to be.

I thought Riechenbach was really effective in showing demon!Dean's evolution (devolution?) in Black from obnoxious, punk ass party animal who beat up asshole guys and killed other demons to the much more terrifying demon who murdered a man(regardless if Lester deserved it Dean still killed a human), who is an actual threat to Crowley and threatened him to his face and shoved him across the room, to threatening to rip out Sammy's throat with his teeth leading to his desire and WILLINGNESS to kill Sam once Sam captured him and held him in the bunker.  So for me the only listless and meandering was with Cas and Hannah.

 

I thought the episode was hugely important to showing what Demon Dean actually was. He wasn't doing bad karaoke and getting drunk and getting some ass. He had no idea what he wanted to be or who he was. He was bored. He lashed out, but he could also be restrained when he wanted to be. The scene where he was cutting his hand with the Blade and watching it heal was one that spoke volumes for me, because I think it really represented the aimlessness and confusion of the character. He was supposed to be a demon. Fun fun fun. Yet he didn't feel that way deep down. 

 

I thought the episode generally moved most of the stories forward (especially Cole's, although I still don't care about him), and gave a great insight into Dean that I just didn't get in the premiere. 

 

I just hope all that isn't dropped. Not just the demon aspect, but the "who am I?" internal crisis that has been building in Dean for years and years.

[NoWillToResist]

I'm curious as to whether Jensen has to wear black contact lenses as Demon!Dean or is that just CGI'd later? I can't imagine how shitty it must have been to set up the Cas/Dean shot, throw in black lenses, play the scene, take out the lenses, check the scene on film, and potentially repeat that cycle many times before you got the shot you wanted.

 

Also, I don't have the ep to reference but I saw mention online that Dean's blood type was shown here to be "O". The poster claimed that the show previously mentioned that John's was AB...and apparently this would make it impossible for Dean to be John's biological child (which raises all sorts of interesting theories as to why Dean was so shafted by John). Can anyone confirm or debunk?

[catrox14]

I don't remember anything being said about Dean's bloodtype other than Sam saying "I got your blood type for what it's worth" but the exact type wasn't mentioned that I recall.   But even if that were true I would expect it's just a continuity issue because there is no way in Hell they would retcon Sam and Dean into not being full brothers. It would mean Mary cheated on John which is another retcon.  Nah...I cannot believe they would go that route after all this time. It would be the single biggest stupidest retcon in the history of the show.

 

 

The eyes were CGI per Jensen

Edited October 24, 2014 by catrox14

[Mcolleague]

I don't want to get into a long explanation of genetics, but it is actually possible for a parent with type AB to produce a child with type O blood, even though it's pretty rare. Not that I think the writers would have thought it through to this extent lol. 

[SueB]

I'm going with continuity error. You just don't put in a game-changer plot point with just a prop and presume fan recollection of John's blood type. Since O neg goes to everything, the prop guys might have used that just to be safe.

ETA, plus I think that whomever got John's Blood Type pulled it off his dog tags in 'Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things'. So if two props don't match, I don't think its enough to declare Dean illegitimate.

Edited October 24, 2014 by SueB

[NoWillToResist]

I was leaning towards continuity error if the observation was correct, but I couldn't rewatch to catch Sam's comment about the bloodtype. Wouldn't be the first time TPTB fucked up on their own canon.

 

That said, it would put the whole John/Dean drama in a new light! :)

[catrox14]

 

That said, it would put the whole John/Dean drama in a new light

 

And completely destroy Mary's reputation for literally no reason.  I cannot see the show going there at all. I like the John/Dean conflict as is because John wasn't a dick to Dean because of not being his son. He was a dick to Dean because he wanted Dean to take on John's responsibilities. I find that much more interesting than the tired trope of Not Really My Son So I'll Be a Jerk.  Nah. Nope.

[AwesomO4000]

Since O neg goes to everything, the prop guys might have used that just to be safe.

 

Exactly, and it could very well be that "I got your blood type" could mean negative blood, since if for example Sam's blood was positive and Dean's was negative, Sam giving Dean his positive blood could be very dangerous.

[DittyDotDot]

All this blood type talk reminded me...I wonder why didn't Sam use his own blood like he did with Crowley? And didn't he have to do some latinating after each injection with Crowley or was that the Enochian spell that ends the trial he was chanting in Sacrifice? Granted, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but I couldn't jog my memory of it.

[AwesomO4000]

All this blood type talk reminded me...I wonder why didn't Sam use his own blood like he did with Crowley? And didn't he have to do some latinating after each injection with Crowley or was that the Enochian spell that ends the trial he was chanting in Sacrifice? Granted, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but I couldn't jog my memory of it.

 

I don't think Sam cared if he killed Crowley or not. In fact I think originally it was going to be stated in the episode that he did plan to kill him after the ritual. Therefore if Crowley became human and then died "accidentally" because his and Sam's blood were not compatible - bonus for Sam. However, if as I mentioned above, Sam knew that his blood was not compatible with Dean's, he wouldn't want to take that chance with Dean.

 

As for the Latin, I think that only had to come at the end with the Enochian. I remember Crowley and Sam conversing as he gave the injections, but no Latin. I'm pretty sure on one injection near the end, Crowley cooperated by just quietly offering his neck for the injection, and Sam silently injected him.

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear in what I was asking...from the Sacrifice transcript on SupernaturalWiki.com:

 

ACT FOUR

ABANDONED CHURCH

[sAM exhales sharply as he starts to chant the words to purify CROWLEY ]

SAM: Exorcizamus te, omnis immundus spiritus, hanc animam redintegra, lustra.

 

Sam was clearly chanting something and as I recall the priest also was chanting the same phrase when he cured the demon in the MoL film. I'm not sure that Sam said it after each injection, but I do remember him doing it right before Dean showed up and asked him to stop (which is what's quoted above). So, I guess I answered my own question, in a way. Like I said, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme, I just hate it when something is at the edge of my memory and can't quite bring it into focus.

Edited October 25, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

And to be fair, I don't understand why they didn't show Sam latinating, I Jared does sound great when he's doing that. ...I feel cheated.

[DittyDotDot]

And it could have ramped up the tension in that last scene so it didn't feel quite so anti-climatic. Although, this writing duo usually doesn't remember much canon at all, so I shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

[catrox14]

It's so frustrating!

[supposebly]

Actually, one line I really, really liked was when Dean said:

 

That line that we thought was so clear between us and the things that we hunted ain't so clear, is it?

 

I can't imagine that this is something Sam has any illusions about but I think Dean sort of still did, at least until Kevin got killed.

 

They should put these two in a room together more often for that long. It's still magic.

Edited October 25, 2014 by supposebly

[echo]

And it could have ramped up the tension in that last scene so it didn't feel quite so anti-climatic. Although, this writing duo usually doesn't remember much canon at all, so I shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

 

Oh my God, Sam chanting would have elevated the curing scenes. It would have been so much more convincing that it worked.

[Pixel]

He held off until he made sure Dean was strung-out in Reichenbach and then offered up Mindy. He revealed Sam's involvement prior to Dean going off and doing the murder ("there's something you ought know..."). So... Dean knew this was Sam's mess when he went there. Perhaps Crowley thought it would intrigue Dean more knowing Sam was involved. IDK. But he did it on purpose I'm sure.

Nobody has mentioned this, but Crowley specifically said that because the contract wasn't fulfilled, he didn't get Lester's soul. Perhaps he was testing to see if. Dean was completely evil or not. Essentially, Dean not only screwed Crowley, he also didn't kill an innocent (the wife), and even though DemonDean razzed Sam about what Sam did making that deal and costing Lester his soul, DemonDean actually absolved Sam because he did not let the guy's soul go to Crowley. And if anyone could be reasonably deserving of death, it's a guy who ordered a hit on his wife.

I thought that was a nod to show that even as a demon, deep down he was still Dean.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Pixel

[DittyDotDot]

Didn't Dean say he killed both Lester and the wife. I thought that was part of his taunting of Sam "I ended both of them" is the line I remember. I'm not inclined to go re-watch it, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression Crowley angry that Dean overstepped and killed Lester before his time--similar to how Crowley was angry at the crossroads demon in that horrible wedding episode where they were taking the souls early. I guess I didn't catch on that Dean didn't kill the wife also. Hmm...

 

I thought Dean killing Lester was in-part getting the inevitable over with. Yes, Lester was a jackass, but why wait 10 years, might as well get the torture underway. It's not likely Lester's getting a trip upstairs after he sold his soul to a demon even if Crowley didn't hold up his end of the bargain. Plus, isn't upstairs still closed for business? I'm not sure Dean was doing Lester or Sam any favors.

[catrox14]

Nobody has mentioned this, but Crowley specifically said that because the contract wasn't fulfilled, he didn't get Lester's soul. Perhaps he was testing to see if. Dean was completely evil or not. Essentially, Dean not only screwed Crowley, he also didn't kill an innocent (the wife), and even though DemonDean razzed Sam about what Sam did making that deal and costing Lester his soul, DemonDean actually absolved Sam because he did not let the guy's soul go to Crowley. And if anyone could be reasonably deserving of death, it's a guy who ordered a hit on his wife.

I thought that was a nod to show that even as a demon, deep down he was still Dean.

 

 

Maybe this was another example of Dean's "I have a GED and a give em Hell attitude" at work that makes him unpredictable and dangerous. Maybe when Dean decided to kill Lester it was that GED!Dean that just decided he didn't want to fulfill the contract once he saw what a dickbag Lester was. I don't think he had a particular ping of 'Oh I can't kill that poor woman' but more that he just wanted to do what he wanted because he judged Lester worthy of dying. 

 

So did Dean actively kill Lester on purpose to save Sam the guilt? Or was it just GED!Dean in the moment deciding that was what HE wanted and to fuck with Crowley's deal just because he could without knowing that Sam had done that before he killed Lester.

 

Dean here could have just been going off scuttlebutt he heard after he killed Lester. 

 

@DDD, Dean didn't kill the wife AFAIK which is why Crowley was so mad. He didn't get Lester's soul because the wife was still alive.  I think..

Edited October 25, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

@DDD, Dean didn't kill the wife AFAIK which is why Crowley was so mad. He didn't get Lester's soul because the wife was still alive.  I think..

 

Sorry, I tried to look up the transcript, but it's not yet available. I know we never saw Dean kill the wife in the previous episode, but I could have sworn he told Sam, in this episode, he killed them both. I realize Crowley was angry he didn't get the soul, but at that time he wouldn't have known that Dean killed her too. Crowley also has a severe need for professionalism with these deals, so I think he would've been angry either way. Add to it Crowley thinking Dean was his to control and Dean didn't do what he was told...full on Crowley tantrum would be expected.

 

I would love to know what Dean actually said in that scene where he was taunting Sam about killing Lester, though. My memory sucks as of late, so I'm not sure that's what I heard. 

[supposebly]

Ok, I just checked:

Oh, and so you know. I killed Lester myself. And that wife of his married that tattooed guy.

 

 

So did Dean actively kill Lester on purpose to save Sam the guilt?

I seriously doubt that. That wouldn't go with the guy who tries to kill Sam in the LoL nice and slow while playing a bit with his food. Even if he knew.

 

I'm wondering about the bone thingy. Crowley has it, which means, sooner or later, Dean (or the mark) will want it back. Which means Crowley might get him right where he wants him.

 

Also, doesn't Dean still owe Cain a death?

Edited October 25, 2014 by supposebly

[Tippi Blevins]

I really need for someone to take Hannah shopping for new jeans, or at least to tell her not to roll up the hems of her current ones.

[catrox14]

Also, doesn't Dean still owe Cain a death?

Yup. I swear if we don't get Cain back for one episode....

"seriously doubt that. That wouldn't go with the guy who tries to kill Sam in the LoL nice and slow while playing a bit with his food. Even if he knew.

He may have made a choice to help Sam when he didn't think he ever have to see Sam again. For some reason I do believe Dean stayed away from Sam on purpose. The urge to kill might have been too strong once he saw Sam again hence the "rip out his throat" threat and then being dedemoned against his will.

Edited October 25, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Ok, I just checked:

Oh, and so you know. I killed Lester myself. And that wife of his married that tattooed guy.

 

Thanks supposedly, I really got that mixed up in my head, didn't I?

 

That was a quick marriage, wasn't it? I don't blame her though, Lester was a total jackass. ;)

[echo]

That was a quick marriage, wasn't it? I don't blame her though, Lester was a total jackass. ;)

Awfully quick! Now that I know that, I wonder what the timeline of these episodes actually is. Does anybody know offhand how much time has passed from what happened in the premiere to this episode?

[DittyDotDot]

I think the flashbacks to Sam helping Lester make the deal happened weeks before we meet up with Sam in Black. And Black ended with Sam captured by Cole and the next one started with Sam's interrogation. I'm thinking it was only a day or so later when Sam finally found Dean and Dean killed Lester in the meantime. So Dean would have killed Lester maybe a day before Sam caught Dean. And, at that point the Lester's divorce wasn't yet final, meaning that the wife finalized the divorce and remarried in like a day.

 

My head hurts.

[Pixel]

He may have made a choice to help Sam when he didn't think he ever have to see Sam again. For some reason I do believe Dean stayed away from Sam on purpose. The urge to kill might have been too strong once he saw Sam again hence the "rip out his throat" threat and then being dedemoned against his will.

 

Right? I'm not thinking that Dean consciously did what he did to help Sam either, that it was a tiny little part of the old Dean that just couldn't help himself.  

[SueB]

Dean could have just been screwing with Sam's head about the marriage.

[echo]

I feel like the writers are screwing with our heads about that marriage!

[Tippi Blevins]

Sam should've been like, "How do you even know that? Did you Facebook-friend her after you killed her husband?!"

[DigitalCount]

I was actually hoping that Dean would try to bargain with Sam using his own blood, which would lead Sam to redouble his efforts for that final push (since he knows the real Dean wouldn't want him as an addict). Sam wouldn't have to accept the deal, but it's odd that Dean wouldn't even offer--at least given that he referenced Mary.

[SueB]

At the ChiCon Meet-n-Greet Director Jensen Ackles confirms the blood type disconnect was a prop error.

https://twitter.com/carryon_spn/status/526396194374029312

Thanks to CarryOn_SPN for live tweeting

[catrox14]

I was actually hoping that Dean would try to bargain with Sam using his own blood, which would lead Sam to redouble his efforts for that final push (since he knows the real Dean wouldn't want him as an addict). Sam wouldn't have to accept the deal, but it's odd that Dean wouldn't even offer--at least given that he referenced Mary.

Now that would have been great. I feel like it was a big cheat to not have Sam use his own blood. At minimum they needed to address why Sam didn't use his own blood. To me it's a cheat to go with Dean needing his own blood type.