S05.E06: The Old Switcharoo (2)

[StarBrand]

Mara capitalizes on the latest crisis, forcing Duke and Nathan to roll the dice to get Audrey back in a dangerous gamble.

[MizArk]

I really enjoyed this one! It took me by surprise at the end and I enjoy being surprised.

[StarBrand]

Very interesting episode.

 

It's funny, I had a theory that Audrey would "split" from Mara's body, sort of like Clark Kent splitting from Bad Superman in Superman III (best part of that movie, BTW).

As it turns out, that seems to be what happened-Audrey's been "freed" and is now her own person. Which also probably means she's not Trouble-proof.

 

I liked that Mara seemed to be legitimately frightened of Duke letting out a trouble on her. I also like her whole look of "well, that's new" upon seeing Audrey.

 

So after all this time, we finally hear about the Colorado Kid again, and Dave has something to do with it. Nice tie-in to the fact that nobody at the time remembers what happened to kim.

 

I dunno, if I had switched with my brother's body, and he had me locked up as a crazy person while boning my wife, I might be a tad ticked off.

Edited October 18, 2014 by StarBrand

[Shanna Marie]

I really did not see that solution to the Mara/Audrey dilemma coming. I guess that means Audrey's a real girl now, with her own body, memories, etc., distinct from Mara. But does she still have her Troubles immunity and any of the other stuff that went with Mara's body? Does what Audrey does have anything to do with maybe being able to end the Troubles, or is she just an ordinary person now who can live out an ordinary life (well, as close as you can get in Haven)?

 

I was rather proud of myself for having made the connection between the current memory lapses and the memory lapse associated with the Colorado Kid case. Now I'm curious what the connection really ends up being.

 

The guys did a brilliant job of playing each other's roles and then taking it a step further and playing each other's roles pretending to be each other. In particular, Lucas Bryant playing Duke pretending to be Nathan (and not quite fooling Gloria as Duke) was a thing of beauty. Kudos for never forgetting to be left-handed.

 

Though I was disappointed not to get any kind of coda scene between the guys in which they now have a better understanding of each other. They touched on it with both of them realizing how awful their respective Troubles are, but I hope we get a little more along the way.

[Cardie]

Memory loss seems to be associated with the incursion of the "bad thing" from the other side, which/who is what killed the CK, I would reckon. It seems like it can only get through if a human from the other side has temporarily crossed over and then it sort of piggy-backs upon that person as he/she returns to our universe. It looked like it turned that Indian who was writing Croatoan into aether.

 

I did not quite understand how the past lives trouble separated out only Audrey.  It would have been cool to have every persona the Entity ever had get its own body.

[Shanna Marie]

I did not quite understand how the past lives trouble separated out only Audrey.

Maybe because the others were all erased by the Barn and Audrey never was? Duke didn't get into the specifics of the Trouble and how many past lives it brought up. Maybe it was only the most recent or the one that was struggling to the surface.

 

For a moment I was wondering if we'd find out that Mara/Audrey wasn't the only one with past lives and maybe Nathan's past lives had been in love with various HavenSavers over the centuries, resulting in his current level of obsession. I had that theory that maybe a past life of Nathan's was their original plan for the father of the Colorado Kid, switched to time travel and it actually being Nathan when the logistics of conveying a past life turned out to be a challenge. But having past selves for Nathan (or Duke) show up when the story was about getting Audrey would likely have been a bit too much for the last two minutes of the episode.

 

How long is a flight from North Carolina to Maine, anyway? It seemed like they were teleporting all over the place, with very little time passing in Haven during the time it took Vince (in Dave's body) to get to North Carolina, and then very little time passing while Vince, Dave and the brother came back. I assume that the car accident happened between the airport in Maine and Haven, since Dwight (in Gloria's body) was there to get the brother to Haven. That really would have required teleporting for Dwight to get to North Carolina and then back.

[StarBrand]

 

I did not quite understand how the past lives trouble separated out only Audrey.

Well, as mentioned above, Audrey did not go through the whole "process"-her personality wasn't entirely gone since Nathan shooting Agent Howard destroyed the barn.

[johntfs]

I'm wondering if we'll see Mara reform, fall in love with Duke and then Nathan and Duke "double-dating" with their versions of Audrey/Mara.  Maybe in a weird dream sequence.

[Tabbyclaw]

Echoing all the "did not see it coming" remarks. Which is why I love this show.

[AudienceofOne]

I did not quite understand how the past lives trouble separated out only Audrey.  It would have been cool to have every persona the Entity ever had get its own body.

 

 

I suppose it would have been logistically impractical but I also didn't get why we didn't get all Mara's past lives. I would have personally liked to see personas other than just Sarah and Lucy.

 

Maybe because the others were all erased by the Barn and Audrey never was?Maybe because the others were all erased by the Barn and Audrey never was?

 

 

That doesn't explain it. They said "past life" not "remnant personality".

 

Really liked this episode. I could have watched Gloria and Dwight be in each other's bodies for the rest of the season. And I was so glad to hear the words "Colorado Kid". I had been extremely disappointed they seemed to have 'dropped' that plotline when it was so important but, while I have problems with individual episodes and with things like the "twu wuv" plot, I never questioned the showrunners of his show had a plan. It's why I've stuck with it.

Edited October 18, 2014 by AudienceofOne

[ZoqFotPik]

How long is a flight from North Carolina to Maine, anyway? It seemed like they were teleporting all over the place, with very little time passing in Haven during the time it took Vince (in Dave's body) to get to North Carolina, and then very little time passing while Vince, Dave and the brother came back. I assume that the car accident happened between the airport in Maine and Haven, since Dwight (in Gloria's body) was there to get the brother to Haven. That really would have required teleporting for Dwight to get to North Carolina and then back.

It's hard to say because I'm not sure they've ever stated exactly where Haven is other than on the coast. However, according to Google, a flight from Raleigh, NC to Portland, ME is about 4hrs and to Bangor is about 5 hrs. If you drive to Boston, 95 miles from Portland, the flight is about 2hrs. It would be a 13 to 15 hour drive from Portland and Bangor respectively.

[MizArk]

I'm going to watch it again because I had a lot of interruptions, but was it the same trouble that split Cornell Whatshisname in "Friend or Faux?" That would be the perfect call-back to me to a trouble that would work here to split Audrey and Mara.

[Shadda2]

Like everyone else, I did not see that coming.  Wow.  Was it wrong of me to love Nathan checking on and being worried about Duke instead of Audrey/Mara?  His first thought was about his friend, not about whether or not their plan had worked.

 

I would have liked seeing Duke being a little more fumbely in Nathan's body.  But saying that, both actors did such a marvelous job switching back a forth between their respective characters.  It is great that they now have more empathy for each other. 

 

Could not get enough of the Gloria/Dwight switch.  They could have kept that up the rest of the season and I would have been delighted.  I was so sorry about Dwight's sister.  That was a sad moment.

 

I'm going to have to rewatch as I ironing while watching and missed several important moments.  Will there be any tie in with the Origins scenes we are getting or is that completely different and simply a little history on how Haven came to be Haven?

 

Was I the only one who giggled at Nathan giving Gloria a GPS system for Christmas.  He's such a sentimental guy.

 

So glad we got the CK mention.  There is so much that needs explaining there and elsewhere.  Which leads me to the question, is that Thinny that Dave and Vince found still open?

 

My favorite part of this episode is how all of the characters got a little more insight into each other.  Perhaps for some a little too much insight, but none the less I expect more empathy for each other in the future.

[BlackberryJam]

I am so freaking ANNOYED that only Audrey came out.  What a fucking cop out.  FUCK FUCK. FUCK.  The writers are doing the easiest possible thing and it's LAME and not good story telling.  Audrey is not some magic unicorn of wonder.  She never was.  She was an interesting character, but she was also kind of a self-absorbed snotrag (which only made her more interesting).  Now that she is the fucking STAR CHILD I want her to DIE a thousand deaths.  I hate the star child trope. 

 

The only thing that can save this shitty choice of having only Audrey split will be if the other personalities fade in and out of the Audrey body.  And by the way, Lexie wasn't destroyed either.  When the body got de-barned, she had both Lexie and Audrey.  Then again, I'm not sure ER could make it work.

 

Well, at least we won't get the I'm-Audrey-Now gasp, but we will have to put up with twice as much ER.  FUCK.  This is so damn stupid.

[AuntieL]

I finally got around to creating an account here just so I could say how delighted I am that I can never quite predict what's going to happen in this show. So did not see that ending coming. I'll also echo what others have said about how good LB and EB were at playing each other's characters. The actors must have had a blast. You could almost "see" Duke in LB's portrayal and EB nailed Nathan's stillness and intensity.  And no Shadda you were not the only one who was tickled that Nathan went to Duke first.

 

Am sad about Dwight's sister; interesting that he didn't seem to be in touch with her.  I wonder if she knew about the trouble? You would think that family would give out miniature bullet proof vests at every baby shower.  The fact that Duke/Nathan told Dwight/Gloria that he wasn't sure Audrey was still in there doesn't bode well now that Dwight has lost another family member.

 

Loved the disgusted look on Mara's face when the one brother admitted he didn't want revenge.  Speaking of which, I can't decide if I like how easily he forgave his brother - being put in a mental institution for 12 years?! On the other hand it made everything all better -kind of like the fraternal version of Frozen. And I'm very intrigued about the thinny and whatever is coming out of it.  Vince/Dave's vision showed it seemingly hurting the man in the woods but it didn't hurt their therapist friend after she hypnotized Dave.  It seems more interested in covering up any clues to it's existence.

[Shanna Marie]

Was it wrong of me to love Nathan checking on and being worried about Duke instead of Audrey/Mara?  His first thought was about his friend, not about whether or not their plan had worked.

I loved that, too. He knew just how bad it was, from personal experience. Actually, I loved the way they were both protective of each other. I guess Duke has always been pretty protective of Nathan ever since the Barn incident, but it wasn't quite so obvious until it was Duke in Nathan's body being protective of Nathan in Duke's body, so it was both really weird to see and really right.

 

Was I the only one who giggled at Nathan giving Gloria a GPS system for Christmas.  He's such a sentimental guy.

I had a momentary disconnect because for a moment I forgot that was Nathan instead of Duke and was at first thinking that Duke must have been passing out gifts to his good customers (since when Gloria first appeared, she mentioned buying weed from Duke). But then I remembered it was Nathan, and he mentioned that Gloria worked with his dad so I guess he's known her most of his life. But did he say "last Christmas"? Because last Christmas, he was on the run from the Guard. The Barn blew up in November, then the next season picked up six months later when Duke found him and brought him back to town.

 

I'm still wondering whether this new Audrey will be ordinary or still have her Trouble immunity. That conversation between switched Nathan and Duke in which Duke questioned how much Nathan's feelings have to do with being able to feel her could be foreshadowing that Nathan will now have to face that question. Or it could have just been an indication of Duke realizing from his experiences as Nathan just how desperate Nathan might be to feel anything.

 

There was a fun bit of meta in having Lucas Bryant as Duke proving his identity to the cop played by Lucas Bryant's wife by talking about the sexual role-playing games she and Duke were into. But didn't they establish her as having a kid in junior high last season? I guess she could be a single mom, and I suppose all this had to have happened before the series started or maybe during season one because Duke hasn't really had time to date since then. In season two, he was busy with his wife, in season three he was mooning over Audrey, and in season four he was with Jennifer.

[anstar]

"Duke" proving his identity to the lady cop...she said they hadn't played that game in "a long time", so it could have been something from their younger days. Misspent youth.

When Audrey popped up (naked, I was surprised Nathan didn't give her his jacket) at first my only thought was, "Well, that solves the whole How can they ever be sure it's not just Mara pretending to be Audrey?" question.  I think she *will* retain her immunity to the troubles. This is supposed to be a 'reincarnation' trouble. Mara's past life, so to speak, alive again. If the trouble works like I think they meant it to.  Say I was Fred Flintstone in a past life.  Duke's trouble hit me and when I woke up, Fred Flintstone would be standing beside me, in all his cartoon-y glory.  So Audrey is back, exactly as she was before, immune to the troubles and eager to help Haven.  As for why it's only Audrey and not 500 years worth of Haven Savers, I'm willing to just shrug it off as a limitation on the trouble (only the last past life) and 'Lexi' never came out of the barn. That was Audrey pretending all along. Maybe what happens in the barn stays in the barn.

[Shanna Marie]

As for why it's only Audrey and not 500 years worth of Haven Savers, I'm willing to just shrug it off as a limitation on the trouble (only the last past life) and 'Lexi' never came out of the barn. That was Audrey pretending all along. Maybe what happens in the barn stays in the barn.

The HavenSavers also aren't really a "normal" case of past lives, in the reincarnation sense. The idea of reincarnation is that the same soul has lived multiple lifetimes. "Audrey" may be the only one still in Mara who counts as a full-on "soul." The others were all memories and identities that were implanted and then erased. Audrey's soul is still in Mara's body, without ever having been removed, in a way that the others aren't. Audrey said she felt Mara in a way that was different from Lexie or anything she remembered of Lucy, and Audrey was the only past personality trying to come out of Mara. Lexie, Lucy, Sarah, et al weren't struggling to the surface in the same way that Audrey was. It may be a bit of a handwave, but I think there's enough rationale to why Audrey and not the others and enough vagueness about how that Trouble works that it's not exactly a massive plot hole.

 

And, really, would we want more than two versions of her running around concurrently? Mara is already one too many, and we really, really don't want Lexie. I'm just glad at the idea that we're going to get some 100 percent Audrey back (I hope!). With Duke and Nathan now probably closer than ever before and Audrey back, the band's back together!

[Cardie]

The thing that bothers me, even though I know I just need to suspend disbelief, is that Mara is the past life, if anyone is. This is a Trouble I can see popping out Mara from Audrey, but not the other way around. I am relieved that they came up with a way out of the "who owns the Entity's body" conundrum.

[Clanstarling]

I really enjoyed this episode. I love body-switching storylines in any case, and the actors all pulled it off quite well. Vince and Dave were a little harder to distinguish, but that's more because they're both crotchety and fussy, and are seldom seen individually.

I liked the fact that they gave Audrey a body of her own - avoiding the ethical questions about forcing Mara out of her own body in order to save Audrey. I was pretty tired of the "I'm in here, help me!" moments.

I wasn't altogether sure she WAS Audrey. I kept waiting for her to say something to make her identity clear (given the whole Lexie/Audrey storyline last season), but she didn't. With the Colorado Kid and the circumstances surrounding his death back in play,  I thought it was possible she was Lucy, despite the hairstyle being the same as Audrey's. I still think it's a possibility, but I don't really think they're going to go that way.

[Eneya]

Since the beginning of the season I was thinking that one person playing multiple characters is a trend but I didn't expect this exactly. :)

[Elsinore]

I just really want to watch that last scene on a loop.

 

When was there a CK mention, exactly? I kept waiting for it to pop up and I didn't hear it.

 

That said, this episode was a lot more talky then the previous one. Still enjoyed the Duke/Nathan switching ever so much. Much better then the Dr Nathan and Detective Duke crap from last season.

 

Still wanted to throttle Mara. Badly.

 

Poor Dwight.

 

The Teagues adventures in North Carolina got drawn out a bit long. Pretty sure they used a black hole to go back and forth so quickly.

 

"Troubles, Thinnies and Terrible Weather" wins for quote of the evening. That and "Why aren't you force feeding me carbs" because I laughed so hard at that one.

[BlueJay81]

It seems they are finally moving things forward plot wise. I have always suspected Dave in the Colorado Kid death but always thought he was aware of it. I still wonder what Vince and Dave meant when they talked about 'who's turn is it to kill? in season 3 when held hostage by Arla.

 

Although it's good to have Audrey back, I still feel it's a bit of a cop out. Plus since a Trouble separated them, their ultimate goal (ending the Troubles for good) means that if they do succeed then the reincarnation Trouble Duke released ends too.I don't think Audrey will still be immune to the Troubles, that is Mara's thing - the real Audrey Parker wasn't immune.

It's very interesting that Duke's Trouble has a direct effect on Mara though, i've always wondered what effect, if any he would have on her. It seems there is a connection bewteen the Crockers and Mara.

 

This episode felt like there were some underlying themes of the overall mythology of the series, will see as it goes.

 

The Dwight thing was bit out of left field, not sure where they are going with that.

[StarBrand]

I think Audrey splitting off Mara is much more interesting than just having Audrey waking back up and saying "hey guys, it's me". I suspect Mara has to stick around for the gang to get information about the troubles, or past versions of Haven-savers. It would be worth keeping Mara around if we could discover the circumstances her and William got imprisoned, and by whom? I'd love to find out that story.

 

Audrey becoming a "normal" woman would also clear the way for her to be with Nathan once all as said and done. I think it's going to become apparent to Nathan very soon, because he would notice something's  not the same the minute he touches her.

[BlueJay81]

 

I think Audrey splitting off Mara is much more interesting than just having Audrey waking back up and saying "hey guys, it's me". I suspect Mara has to stick around for the gang to get information about the troubles, or past versions of Haven-savers. It would be worth keeping Mara around if we could discover the circumstances her and William got imprisoned, and by whom? I'd love to find out that story.

I want to know more about that story too. Hopefully we'll finally start getting some answers to the long standing mysteries. Hopefully with Audrey now back, they will be able to focus more on getting vital information from Mara.They seem to have shied away from Mara being a true evil villain, yes she killed a few people and is annoying but she's been relatively easy to subdue and now we'll have the similar we can't kill Mara because that will kill Audrey thing, a repeat of the whole William and Audrey thing last season. They really need to develop the Mara character, because she is still too one dimensional.

It will be interesting if Nathan can feel Mara but not feel Audrey though.

[Tabbyclaw]

Granted it's only been a couple seconds and everyone's still in shock, but I'd assume that if Audrey doesn't have her Troubles immunity Nathan would have noticed immediately, given the way he was holding her.

 

This may be contradicted by the fact that Vince didn't know anything about what Dave was looking into in Cincinnatti, but my theory once we found out that the Teagues and Gloria knew more about Dwight's sister than he did was that she was running a Guard safehouse.

[gameoff]

I sure hope Dave gets that wound on his leg looked at while he's in the hospital.

[Clanstarling]

 

When was there a CK mention, exactly? I kept waiting for it to pop up and I didn't hear it.

Elsinore, the mention was when Vince and Dave were talking about the last time there was lost memory - 30 years earlier when the Colorado Kid was found dead.

[Enigma X]

The Colorado Kid's time line confuses the hell out of me.

[MarkHB]

How long is a flight from North Carolina to Maine, anyway? It seemed like they were teleporting all over the place, with very little time passing in Haven during the time it took Vince (in Dave's body) to get to North Carolina, and then very little time passing while Vince, Dave and the brother came back. I assume that the car accident happened between the airport in Maine and Haven, since Dwight (in Gloria's body) was there to get the brother to Haven. That really would have required teleporting for Dwight to get to North Carolina and then back.

I just checked, and it looks like the nearest airport to Manteo would actually be Norfolk, VA., and it's c. 3:30 with a change on Southwest from Portland to there.  Bangor, which I believe is a lot closer to Haven than Portland, has flights in the 5-5 1/2 hour range.  But I think the car crash happened in North Carolina; it would make sense that Dave (or his body) would have the Croatoan vision there rather than Maine, and it appeared that the car they were driving had North Carolina plates (I tried to zoom in on my TV, as I wondered if they had slipped and used Nova Scotia plates in place of Maine, but they did indeed appear to be "First in Flight").  So unless Gloria's going todash (SK-speak for "deliberately using thinnies for transport", dangerous business in the best of times), I think we just have to accept that the timeline's screwed up again.

 

Speaking of the timeline, what was that about "30 years ago" and the CK?  I assume he was just rounding, because shouldn't we be at 24 years ago or so (since they lost 6 months between seasons 3 and 4, conveniently skipping winter)?

[MarkHB]

It's hard to say because I'm not sure they've ever stated exactly where Haven is other than on the coast. However, according to Google, a flight from Raleigh, NC to Portland, ME is about 4hrs and to Bangor is about 5 hrs. If you drive to Boston, 95 miles from Portland, the flight is about 2hrs. It would be a 13 to 15 hour drive from Portland and Bangor respectively.

Or what you said :)

[DJG1122]

The hospital sign said Raleigh Memorial so Vince, Dave & Skip were still in NC

[Cardie]

They must have decided to take US1 to Maine, because you wouldn't drive all the way back to Raleigh from the coast if heading north.

 

As for the 30 years: it was 27 years between the meteor storms and I believe the CK died a few months before Lucy was barned. Then we have however much time it's been since Nathan blew up the barn--so getting into the 28 or 29 year range.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I did not quite understand how the past lives trouble separated out only Audrey.

Didn't Nathan tell Duke he should think about Audrey when he activated the Trouble?

 

Was it just the lighting or did Audrey split off with lighter hair than Mara?

[Elsinore]

Well yeah, you need something to tell all the Entities apart. I figure hair colour is always a solid way to go.

 

Where exactly do they plan to hole up Mara now that Audrey poofed into existence?

[Tabbyclaw]

First rule of keeping something secret in Haven: Always assume that Duke knows a guy who knows a place.

[icandigit]

I don't want to think too hard about how this happened. Just happy Audrey is back and we get to keep Mara cackling manically in the background.  I'm mad the show was like, look at all this beautiful Nuke and don't think too much about the implication of  the reincarnation trouble. It worked. I hate them. They've been distracting me with Nuke for two seasons now and I haven't been able to think logically about anything.

 

So that thing that got out, was in Haven during the 80's. I wonder how it got out last time an how it got sent back over to the other side. I'm  confusing myself again. Let me just go back and watch Nuke.I can't believe I still genuinely love this show after all these

seasons.  I usually lose interest in shows at this point.

[kat165]

I really enjoyed this episode and was more interested than I've been so far this season. I rewatched it again today and picked up on something I missed before. The wife of the switch brothers, when she opened Dave's adoption file and saw the picture of Howard, said that Howard looks like the man who tried to buy the thinny house about 10 years ago. Well, 10 years ago wasn't Howard in the barn with Lucy/Audrey/blank recharging entity? Or was he able to land the barn and come and go as needed? And will this thread be picked up or is it a mistake/oversight on the part of the writers?

 

I'm very anxious to see where they go with Audrey and the reincarnation trouble. Is that Audrey? I guess she wouldn't have held onto Nathan if she wasn't & maybe he wouldn't feel her touch, but I'm surprised she didn't come out with her usual "Oh Nathan" rather than what she did say which was "Thank you." That seemed kind of odd.

 

Just a curiosity: why is The Gull always empty (not doing any business) everytime we've seen it this season. Not enough $$ to pay the extras? Or just an oversight?

Edited October 21, 2014 by kat165

[MarkHB]

I assumed that Howard could come and go as he pleased; he didn't need to recharge on love or broadcast it to Haven, after all.  And the crowds at the Gull are presumably waiting for Taco Tuesday ;) .

[Tabbyclaw]

Bear in mind that so far 'this season' has been just a couple days. I imagine Duke can afford to close up shop for that short a time while he deals with the current crisis.

[kat165]

Mark & Tabby, good points! I'd wait for Taco Tuesday too. And I keep forgetting that it's only been a few days.

[shapeshifter]

...Though I was disappointed not to get any kind of coda scene between the guys in which they now have a better understanding of each other. They touched on it with both of them realizing how awful their respective Troubles are, but I hope we get a little more along the way.

I thought it was clear that they did now fully understand each other when Duke in Nathan's body told Mara that he didn't love Audrey and then tasered Mara, after which Nathan in Duke's body said: You've been waiting all day to do that, haven't you?--which showed that Nathan believes Duke is not secretly in love with Audrey.

I may still think that, but Nathan and Duke clearly don't. Heh.

[MarkHB]

Though I was disappointed not to get any kind of coda scene between the guys in which they now have a better understanding of each other. They touched on it with both of them realizing how awful their respective Troubles are, but I hope we get a little more along the way.

NO HUGGING! ;)

 

Seriously, though, that sounds like the sort of conversation that (unrelated) guys usually only have in stories written by women for women, or when the author really needs an Exposition Fairy or a Big Giant Club of the Moral of the Tale.  Particularly given that these two are still formally adversaries (the cop and the smuggler/all-around ne'er-do-well), and that neither is overtly a "talk-about-your-feelings" guy, I think that what we saw played naturally and was sufficient.  (Please don't take this as any sort of a swipe at you; I haven't read any of your books unless you count the ones you write on the boards here and at TWoP, and certainly no offense is intended.)

Edited October 22, 2014 by MarkHB

[Shanna Marie]

Seriously, though, that sounds like the sort of conversation that (unrelated) guys usually only have in stories written by women for women, or when the author really needs an Exposition Fairy or a Big Giant Club of the Moral of the Tale.

I was thinking more in terms of ragging on each other with a slight subtext of "oh, now I get it." But yeah, probably not so much in words, since Nathan doesn't talk. I do hope it shows up in actions, like with Duke being a little more aware of Nathan's sensory limitations and understanding just why he's as crazy as he is, and with Nathan noticing the early warning signs of a Trouble flare-up after having experienced it firsthand. In a roundabout way, Duke accusing Nathan of loving Audrey only because he can feel her kind of counts as that kind of awareness, since it may mean he recognizes how desperate to feel Nathan has to be. I don't know that he's really doubting Nathan's feelings, just knowing that it's a pretty powerful factor because being Nathan is pretty awful.

 

So they've probably done it just right. The rest is probably better reserved for fanfic. :-)

[Eneya]

Is it just me who found weird "I don't love Audrey, so I can zap her"? I mean... I would have scruples zapping almost anyone but if I know they would not be seriously hurt by it, I would zap someone regardless if I love that person or not. The idea that Nathan couldn't press that button, because he can't stand the idea that Audrey is hurt even for a second.... surrendering her this in general to basically dying is... extremely stupid.

-rant over-

[AuntieL]

Yeah that was odd given that Nathan threatened Mara with the taser when he first brought her on the case and she seemed to believe him, at least enough to behave herself.  And Nathan has shown willingness to risk hurting Audrey if necessary, like when he headbutted her to render William unconscious.  It might have just been Duke's final realization that he really didn't love Audrey in that way; or else it was just  one of those things that writers do for drama that don't necessarily make sense.

 

Mara taunting Duke/Nathan about how he won't hurt Audrey or is too weak because he loves her, is in character however.  It seems to be her go-to taunt to Nathan, just like her trying to use his jealousy to drive a wedge between him and Duke.  I also think that at this point she's becoming nervous and is just trying whatever she can to save her skin.  I almost feel like Mara is a child in terms of her species; she doesn't have much depth of understanding of people or situations and acts a lot on impulse.  I'm also beginning to think that William was the brains of the operation, at least in terms of strategy. 

[BlueJay81]

I think the whole Duke doesn't love Audrey thing is about them setting up a Duke-Mara and Audrey-Nathan thing. The whole 'you have a darkness inside you' thing earlier in the season and Mara's apparent fascination with the Crockers. I remember an early interview with the creators where they mentioned that there are sort of 2 sides in the story.

 

Not that I think it was good writing.

[Tabbyclaw]

I do hope it shows up in actions, like with Duke being a little more aware of Nathan's sensory limitations and understanding just why he's as crazy as he is, and with Nathan noticing the early warning signs of a Trouble flare-up after having experienced it firsthand.

 

I will have you know I am now picturing Nathan trying to be helpful and supportive during a flareup and not quite getting there.

 

"You're all right, we've got you. Just focus on your breathing."

"I'm not in labor, Nathan!"

[MarkHB]

I will have you know I am now picturing Nathan trying to be helpful and supportive during a flareup and not quite getting there.

 

"You're all right, we've got you. Just focus on your breathing."

"I'm not in labor, Nathan!"

Excellent ear for the characters, Tabbyclaw!

 

Also, does anyone else think that Duke should let his own Trouble out, back on himself?  Maybe that would fix his "unable to contain the Troubles" problem, at the risk of berserker rage.

Edited October 23, 2014 by MarkHB

[shapeshifter]

I think the whole Duke doesn't love Audrey thing is about them setting up a Duke-Mara and Audrey-Nathan thing.

Ack! Please, no. Maybe Duke and Lexi. Or what about Duke and that other Audrey Parker from a few seasons ago? I think she died? Maybe they could resurrect her? Nathan slept with Lucy, right? So no Duke and Lucy sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g, either, please.

Anyway, I still think Duke does love Audrey, but he also loves Nathan like a brother--and even more than he loves Audrey. Duke has probably resigned himself to loving Audrey like a sister, but that doesn't mean he couldn't love her romantically if Nathan died. But if another, identical Audrey split out from real Audrey, I think it would be too weird for Duke and her to get together. But it's the end of the series, so, why not jump a few sharks? It's not like the finale of Breaking Bad where fans were hoping for a perfect ending for a perfect series (IMO).