Ratings and Scheduling: Still More Numbers to Decipher

[GHScorpiosRule]

They go by the lesser known (yet often used) motto of "If it ain't broke, FIX IT TIL IT IS!"

 

 

So true, kariyaki.

[DeLurker]

This is why it should have stayed on the Thursday schedule and not been moved. 

I loved the Elementary - PoI line up. 

[stealinghome]

YES! PoI and Elementary work so, so well together. Having them back to back again would be great, but unfortunately, there's pretty much no permutation of CBS's schedule next season where that happens, ugh.

 

I'm very torn on whether I want CBS to move PoI to a different (earlier) timeslot next season. On the one hand, TV shows always lose viewers when they move nights, so no. On the other hand, NCIS:NO is such an unimpressive lead-in, and the late slot is so killer, that part of me thinks that CBS moving PoI to an earlier timeslot might actually help. Guess we'll know in a few weeks.

 

In other news, CSI: Cyber only got a 1.2 last night in PoI's slot. Take that, CBS! (Though--I've heard Cyber is dreadful and should die asap for the good of humanity, though CBS clearly really wants it to work, but CBS also did it no favors with scheduling it last night, after repeats of NCIS and NCIS:NO. Seriously, does CBS let drunk monkeys schedule its shows???)

Edited April 22, 2015 by stealinghome

[Julia]

So, last week's very special episode with Carter got 9.21 million viewers. CSI Cyber, with 5 million fewer lead-in viewers on a rerun night, got 8.38. Probably not the best sign.

[stealinghome]

PoI should be applauded for its ratings this season. #2 10 PM drama on CBS and running within a tenth of NCIS LA in the demo average this season. If they are so concerned about this time slot, then maybe it is time for them to move a procedural back to this night so that it can handle these multiple interruptions better. Maybe then CBS will bother to schedule it better than what they have done to PoI this season.

Okay, because you wrote this I had to go look up NCIS:LA's ratings, and holy crap, that show took just as big a hit as PoI did changing nights and moving back to the 10pm slot. (Actually, it's a little eerie that the numbers are almost identical--PoI lost a little more in the demo and NCIS: LA a little more in the total viewers, but the numbers are pretty on par.) Will CBS never learn???

 

Also, I didn't realize we're actually ahead of NCIS:LA in terms of total viewers this season, alongside being not even a tenth behind in the demo.

[DeLurker]

 Also, I didn't realize we're actually ahead of NCIS:LA in terms of total viewers this season, alongside being not even a tenth behind in the demo.

Used to watch NCIS: LA and enjoyed it for a light & fluffy procedural with likable characters that didn't take itself too seriously. Stopped watching this year because it has gotten stale and it is too much effort to remember when it is now.

[wevel]

1.4 demo points/8.45 million total viewers for 4X21.  On the down side, that's a 0.1 decrease in 18-49 demo points compared to 4X20.  On the plus side, it *only* lost 0.1 demo points despite no TPH guest star and no new episode last week.  Here's hoping the finale goes back up to at least 1.5!

[Mari]

Tvline.com downgraded POI's chances for renewal, but didn't include a why.

[kahauna]

I can't believe that PoI hasn't already been renewed....CSI: Cyber is worse than that asinine "PoI/Ghost in the Shell" rip-off/mash-up "Intelligence" mid-season CBS replacement from a couple years ago, and 'Cyber' stands a better chance of renewal.

Edited May 2, 2015 by kahauna

[Julia]

I'm sure POI is far more expensive to make. POI also has the problem that with the retool last season, they've essentially become an only moderately popular new show trending downwards, and they've been very forthright that they plan to double down on that. CBS can't afford to lose almost half the leadin forever.

[stealinghome]

CBS hasn't (officially) renewed ANY of its veteran dramas--it's not like PoI is alone here. And I'm super curious as to what the holdup is across the network. Major disagreements between the network and the ad companies? Are they waiting on CM actor contacts to announce everything? Are they trying to decide whether to give TGW and MS short seasons (they won't but it wouldn't be a bad idea)? And if the decisions have already been made and transmitted to the shows, why are they waiting so late to announce this year as opposed to years past? What's going on BTS at CBS? This kind of stuff is always really interesting to me, so I'd love to know what's going on.

PoI aside, I think CBS is going to renew Cyber but I think that's a mistake. 2 of the last 3 new episodes have scored just a 1.2, and as it's a short first season, it would need 4 more full seasons to hit syndication numbers. Imo it's a bad investment but I think CBS might want to keep the CSI brand alive and see if Patricia Arquette can grab more viewers in the fall.

[prican58]

If CBS in its heart of hearts really wants to renew POI then they ought to figure our when Shahi has plans of returning. I think her departure has much to do with the decline in ratings. If she seriously is looking at a year, they may have to end it or at least give it 5-6 episodes to close it out. But then that would almost be like a Hail Mary pass for the showrunners. Might not be satisfying.

 

I came for Shahi, I stay for Root. The lack of Shoot back and forth is a big loss for me. 

[DioxinBlues]

When it comes to renewal, things appear to be bit more uncertain than I'd initially suspected, if the comments by J.J. Abrams are anything to go by:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/05/03/usa-today-save-our-shows-2015-results/26659499/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+USA:

 

But "I think we have a real shot to come back," says executive producer J.J. Abrams. "I think the show deserves to come back. (Producers) Jonah Nolan and Greg Plageman have a great pitch for a fifth season. And if it doesn't come back on CBS, hopefully there can be another home for the series. But it is a show that has a fan base we are incredibly grateful for, and I think the best stories for Person of Interest are ahead."

 

[wevel]

When it comes to renewal, things appear to be bit more uncertain than I'd initially suspected, if the comments by J.J. Abrams are anything to go by

 

Yeah, I saw that today as well, and my heart dropped a bit.  stealinghome and I were discussing the prospect of a cable network picking up POI for a 13-season episode rather than the usual 22-episode broadcast season.  Pluses would be a tighter season with few if any completely non-AI-related episodes, minuses, for me, would be the almost interminable wait between seasons (9 months rather than 4.5, ugh).  

[stealinghome]

Michael Emerson sounds pretty dang confident they're getting renewed (and warning, he talks in a very general way about tonight's episode, so if you want to go into it totally unspoiled/with no commentary, hold off on reading this article):

 

Michael: I would be flabbergasted if we weren’t renewed. I don’t know why it hasn’t been made official yet. I’m fully expecting to go to work on the Monday after the Fourth of July.

[whatsatool]

I think POI is getting too complicated for me.

[wevel]

Ugh, overnight ratings for 4X22 were terrible: 1.1 in the 18-49 demo, a series low.  This despite all the social media promo.  Hopefully CBS has already greenlit S5, because the finale numbers will NOT help PoI's case if the suits were waiting on them to make a decision.

[FurryFury]

And 18-34 demo is actually worse than The CW, even. Why has the show fallen so low? I haven't been following it (going to catch up during the next week), did something happen with the story or is it the fault of the schedule?

[wevel]

There've been an unprecedented number of preemptions/reruns breaking up the scheduling of the back half episodes, unfortunately.  Several weak episodes after the conclusion of the Shaw/Samaritan episodes (4X13) probably didn't help.

 

Nevertheless, everyone is predicting that PoI is renewed for S5, but I wonder if the delay in announcing the renewal is a network decision around whether that will be the final season.  Do they announce such things at the time of the renewal, if that's the case?

[FurryFury]

Depends on the network, Mostly, it happens during upfronts. i think we'll know this week.

[StarBrand]

I think somebody mentioned that absolutely NONE of CBS's big shows has been renewed, so it's probably not a question of if Season 5 will be announced, but when.

[pcta]

CBS up fronts are on the 13th so we should know by then

[wevel]

Thanks for the info.  I'm disappointed the finale numbers were so poor - before this, I thought POI had a shot for 2 more seasons, now I think hoping for a full, final season *not* on Friday nights is more realistic.

[calguy]

Renewed for a fifth season.

 

http://tvline.com/2015/05/11/cbs-renewals-2014-shows-renewed-person-of-interest-hawaii-five-0/

[kwnyc]

Another story on the renewal.

[Princess Lucky]

YES!

 

Wow. I don't recall ever feeling so nervous for a show. Now we can all breathe a sigh of relief.

 

I assume since there's no particular note it'll be a normal, 22-ep season and we were all worried for nothing and YES.

 

I would totally suggest that the writers make this into a flawless final season and now we can expect Sarah to return and YES.

 

In conclusion, YES.

[stealinghome]

As expected, but nevertheless nice to have confirmed. :)

[Gigi43]

PoI and Elementary are really my only appointment network TV dramas (well I got into Empire, but by the time I did it was a no brainer renewal, and I consider it a Soap.) Anyway I've been so nervous CBS was gonna lower the axe on one or both. I'm so, so relieved. Now they just need to not repeat this ridiculous rerun vs. New schedule of this year next season. I think it does deserve a good amount of blame for the ratings and there's proof in the dips in the first episodes after reruns all season.

TV By the Numbers is making it official now http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/05/11/the-good-wife-hawaii-five-o-person-of-interest-more-renewed-by-cbs/402326/

Edited May 11, 2015 by Gigi43

[AimingforYoko]

The way the producers were talking about a fifth season, they sounded pretty sure.

[FurryFury]

There's an implication it might be the last, however. I probably wouldn't mind, better to go out on top while they still can. Maybe it would mean no filler storylines like Dominic.

[stealinghome]

The way the producers were talking about a fifth season, they sounded pretty sure.

Yeah, I strongly suspect they were renewed a while ago and just weren't allowed to say it.

[Trillium]

I just read that it's only a 13 episode season??? If that's the case they better kill Iris off in the premier because there ain't no time for that nonsense if that's all they're getting.

[FormerMod-a1]

Here's a source I found with the 13 episode order mention (thanks stacey).  I have so many questions based on the lack of info.   Is it a partial order with possibility for more?  Or partial to lighten the load for the actors or writers?  Or partial and likely last season? Probably the last one, since that's the option I most fear.

[stealinghome]

If that's the case, given Abrams' comments posted earlier in the thread, I wonder if the WB is shopping the show around.

[alynch]

Even if CBS won't officially declare it the final season, I hope the producers are smart enough to see the writing on the wall and plan accordingly. History is not on their side so far as a future beyond the next 13.

[mtlchick]

Sadly, I think it's going to get shopped around and failing that, cancellation.  The show hit series lows last week (though it does recovers a bit through DVR playback.)  So CBS is probably want to ensure it hits 100 episodes before it sends on its way. I believe it's the only show CBS doesn't have a stake in at all so it's more of a "meh." 

[DeLurker]

I continued to be mystified as to why this show doesn't have a broader audience.

[stealinghome]

I believe it's the only show CBS doesn't have a stake in at all so it's more of a "meh."

Yeah--it's the last show on CBS that isn't at least co-produced by the network. It's pretty clear that CBS wants all its own shows to profit from the syndication money.

[alynch]

I'm pretty sure that's true for dramas at least. All the Chuck Lorre sitcoms are WB productions.

[Gigi43]

I was so relieved earlier, then obviously let down now. But with a show like this 22 episodes does obviously lead to filler and shorter seasons might give it a full run not a jump around. Many shows last past their prime, but if this is the last season, 13 can be enough to go out on a high note. I know the producers have said that they planned Carter's death from the beginning and taking the show in the new direction since, have they ever mentioned if they ever had a general idea of the entire series? Joss Whedon had discussed even during Buffy he had the first five seasons as the story if it lasted this long and I'm generous in terms of some season 6 EPs, but you can tell they were "after thoughts". If the Show is okay with it I don't want that for this show, but I still I'm so conflicted.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Gigi43

[Lebanna]

Since Fringe wrapped up a plot that, if anything, was even more complicated than PoI in a fantastic shortened fifth season, I firmly believe that the forerunners here can do it.

Since this show, like Fringe, seems to transform its universe every season, I'm sure they can cut out the dead wood and move the plot along to wherever it was inevitably going. I just hope they don't hold back because they're hoping for a another year. It's pretty clear that won't happen.

[prican58]

Perhaps Sarah will be returning sooner than later. But what if she decides being a 3 kid mommy is more fun than being a bad ass and dumps the show biz thing for the foreseeable future a la Phoebe Cates. That would make me sad.

I think 13 is a good move for the reason Gigi43 said. It could be a smart move if the showrunners stay one step ahead. Hope any future deals do not have the show aired on an obscure cable channel most folks don't get. Hope it goes to a regular tv channel as so many folks do not have cable. Need as many viewers as possible.

[ShannaB]

I continued to be mystified as to why this show doesn't have a broader audience.

 

 

The audience actually has to pay attention every week!!

[StarBrand]

Well, I'm going to wait until someone from the POI camp says "yeah, we're back, but for only 13 eps". Even 13 would be better than zero.

[FurryFury]

I continued to be mystified as to why this show doesn't have a broader audience.

Well, genre shows often struggle in terms of audience. And this show also has rather old main characters (at least in the first few season), which does tend to turn off younger viewers. I personally have watched the pilot, didn't really fall in love with either of the 4 and only tuned back after season 3 which added two younger women to the cast (plus, I've heard about the switch to serialization and the overall high quality). While the typical CBS procedural viewers are probably annoyed by the complicated mythology.

There's also such factors as starting really, really slow (notice how many shows nowadays breeze through the plot in season 1) and not having any immediately appealing characters (I only fell in love with Finch in season 2 after all the flashbacks, and I'm still bored by Reese).

Edited May 12, 2015 by FurryFury

[Princess Lucky]

Sigh.

 

I wish they had announced the 13 episode deal immediately, then we'd be all "omg 13 is better than 0, so yay!". Now we all assumed we'd be getting a full season and then boom, cut to half. That sure put a damper on my excitement.

 

I do think that 13 episodes are enough for the story to end, going by PoI's crazy pace, but I totally agree that the writers need to a) write a specific ending or b) negotiate and work out a deal with another network IN ADVANCE. We have these 13 episodes. If they are the last PoI episodes ever, the writers need to acknowledge that. If there's a chance for more, it should be solidified while there's still time.

 

I would hate to see this show end on a cliffhanger. The writers have told a great story and it deserves a great ending. I'd love more than these 13 episodes but I'd love a fantastic ending even more. 100 episodes of Person of Interest. That's not that bad. As far as genre shows go, that's amazing.

 

Hell, scheduling-wise, maybe we could get a 2-hour series finale. I've always wanted a 2-hour PoI episode. A PoI movie, basically. That would be a fitting ending.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Princess Lucky

[StarBrand]

I dunno. Fringe was brought back for a final 13 ep season, and the Mentalist had a 13 ep final season-in both cases, it was announced by the network that these were the final seasons right off the bat, so viewers knew what was g

 

So, to have someone report that Season Five is only 13 eps, but doesn't mention anything about the network saying it's the last, is a little odd.

[FurryFury]

There have been precedents of shows getting a shortened season but then getting renewed (Community season 4), but it's pretty rare and will depend on the negotiations with the studio. I'm not sure WB cares that much, to be honest.

On the other hand, the show has an established fan base and good critical reception. Depending on the contracts of the regular cast, I could see it switch to a streaming service for a season or two if there's a story to tell. Not sure how expensive it is to film, however.

 

That said, 13 episodes is really the best format for it. I would have taken a 13-episode season 4 over what we've got. No Dominic, no Iris, no stand-alones (although I did enjoy a few guest characters). So if it's indeed the last season, I hope there won't be any other stuff like this, just pure plot.

Edited May 12, 2015 by FurryFury

[Trillium]

This show was on the wrong network I always thought. The type of people who'd love this show won't touch CBS at all as 99% of their dramas are the same. And the typical CBS crowd probably lost interest once they realized this was vastly different than what they were used to.

If they want to go beyond 13 episodes they need a deal in place with someone else like yesterday. I do think if they cut out the unnecessary parts, like Iris, Brotherhood and wasting time on their cover identities, they could pull off a satisfactory limited season. (Maybe a 2 hour finale and premier?) I think they could easily eliminate the subplots and focus on the main one and get to their oft mentioned pre planed endgame.

[stealinghome]

Ugh, guys, I had the terrible thought last night that while a 13-episode season would let us cut the crap and get to the heart of the story (no Dominic-like detours), it also might mean Iris would end up John's endgame because she's there and already set up and it would be easy. Which, UGH, please no!

So, to have someone report that Season Five is only 13 eps, but doesn't mention anything about the network saying it's the last, is a little odd.

CBS doesn't own PoI, though, so it's not CBS' place to say whether PoI is done or not. That's for the WB to decide.

I DO think the 13-episode order is CBS announcing that after S5 PoI is done *on CBS.* But I wouldn't be surprised if the WB is shopping the show around. I'd love to see what JN and GP could do with it on cable/Netflix...though I agree that's likelier not to happen than to happen.

Edited May 12, 2015 by stealinghome