S07.E02: Montreal

[WendyCR72]

“Montreal” – While the team investigates the murder of a toy company CEO, Castle uncovers a lead to his mysterious disappearance, launching him into a dangerous investigation of his own.

 

At least two other forums I mod did not have threads open, so I am erring on the side of caution and will keep episode threads unlocked for the future. But please do NOT use this as a chat room and wait 'til the episode has finished airing on the east coast. Thanks!

[cappuccino]

Urg it started out so good and then they throw kissing Gates, kissus interruptus by dog and the mystery that started when Castle was 11 years old into the mix. No one knows but him ... I doubt it. I'm not so sure Martha doesn't know at least some of it.

Either I'm too good or they are too bad but once I saw the promo pics, I knew who was involved in the murder.

Edited October 7, 2014 by cappuccino

[McManda]

All in all, I liked this one a lot.

 

I didn't like that the police work was generally dark (seriously, someone should ask Marlowe why the Precinct is always so dark!), but I liked the development of Castle's case. I had to roll my eyes when it looked like there was a spy connection, but I laughed when the guy turned out to be a fake (a spaceship on the dark side of the moon, hahaha).

 

Castle playing with the toys seemed very much like older-Castle.

 

Castle's a smart guy, making the videos for Martha and Alexis and Beckett was pretty heartbreaking (they were like a digital version of Beckett's letter). What I want to know is why he sewed the key into his pants - if he was killed, was he expecting his body to be returned to his family? Otherwise they'd never find that safety deposit box, or even had known where to look for one.

 

I don't mind that Beckett is still a bit wary of a wedding - she's been through a pretty big trauma in trying to find Castle and thinking he might be dead, so I can't blame her for wanting to try to get back to a normal before jumping back into a wedding. It was nice to see Castle and Beckett comfortable in bed. But why do I feel like Castle is going to surprise Beckett with an impromptu, intimate wedding? (Probably in episode 6.)

 

At least it doesn't look like Castle is any danger, so that's a plus. Except Castle has always been inquisitive (he needs to know the story, the why, it's why Beckett was thrust back into her mom's murder case), so I don't know how I feel about the idea that he'd ask to forget. We'll see. Obviously we'll get answers eventually, even if Castle doesn't want them.

[FlickerToAFlame]

I didn't like the episode, mostly because it was boring and I felt like it was typical AWM choosing to make fun of viewers than focus on doing good work.

I think Martha knows more than she's letting on.

[verdana]

Take Martha's advice keep the box closed! Forget this ever happened! Some mysteries are never meant to be solved! Yes like this one. *sigh*  Although I liked this episode marginally better than Driven because it wasn't quite so stupid and OOC and was one step closer to 7.03 when surely by that point they should have put this story to bed for while and normal Castle and Beckett service will be finally resumed.

 

This felt like a giant waste of time on the "new mythology" front at least, it went nowhere really, for all the action and drama of the last two episodes I don't feel anything significant has really happened. And what were ABC doing releasing the end scene as a sneak peek which gave almost all the interesting stuff away? Dumb.

 

None of what little has been revealed is making Castle look particularly good I have to say despite everyone trying to be positive and supportive which is in a marked but predictable change from last week. There may not be much to this story yet substance wise to go on but what's coming out feels weak as dishwater and I sense this story is going to end up being about Castle getting involved with some super secret CIA mission or something similar.

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[mythoughtis]

Much better Castle.   Castle engaged in the story, with his crazy theories.  Alexis being by her Dad's side, Lani with Esposito, Ryan obsessing about family.  Yes, a win for a change.

Edited October 7, 2014 by mythoughtis

[verdana]

There was a case? There were dogs in it that's all I got. I really should pay more attention.  

 

At least this time it felt more balanced than last week with Castle and Beckett and we actually got to see Castle explore his feelings a little more which rarely happens. 

 

The writers have got the rewards to mythology ratio right yet, you need to throw audiences a few bones to reward them for jerking them around over a wedding, then giving them jack shit to work with in the following two episodes but lots and lots of questions and very few (if any) answers.  You just know this story is going to be dropped like a stone until probably after Christmas and everyone is going to get a giant dose of Castle amnesia. 

 

I laughed since we were just talking about it on the other thread, Esplaine they're definitely back on! And whilst I couldn't care less about this development I am pleased for Tamala.

 

Seamus dancing on the keyboard immediately reminded me of Tom Hanks in Big.

 

Tory.

 
Why did they go hide in the bedroom from Martha's date when you can see right through into it?  That's always freaked me out that people can see and hear everything that's going on. Not that there is anything going on in there mind you to concern them. Kind of depressing to think Martha probably gets way more action and excitement than Caskett do on the sex front. Nice to see that she does have a life outside of the loft even if we never see it.  More Susan please.

 

Jenny and the baby gets a mention. Good to know they're alive and well.

 

Beckett is finally wearing her ring at work all the time, Hallelujah.

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

I think Martha knows more than she's letting on.

I think so too. 

 

 

Except Castle has always been inquisitive (he needs to know the story, the why, it's why Beckett was thrust back into her mom's murder case), so I don't know how I feel about the idea that he'd ask to forget.

Also, you'd think Castle has seen enough books/movies about memory erasing to know that the person never gives up trying to find out what happened to them.  And Castle always needs to know the story, so he would want to know even more than all those other people. 

 

So, basically, the "new mythology" is that something shady went down with Castle for two months. That's some great intricate storytelling there.

 

I liked the episode overall. The case was kind of dull, but it's always dull when they are splitting time with some other storyline.  But I did like the Caskett moments we got.

 

Now even a dog is interrupting Caskett kisses.  Really?

 

Did Marlowe write this episode? I noticed a recycled line ....Castle said how they're searching for a needle in a haystack, but at least it's a haystack.  Beckett said the same thing in Always about finding Maddox.

Edited October 7, 2014 by KaveDweller

[verdana]

Detective Alexis Castle strikes again - DAD THE KEY! And like none of the others had cottoned on to it. And I laughed because it's not even held securely anywhere but just chucked in a box on the shelf.

 

Yeah right you go off again alone Rick with your daughter to Canada into the unknown you've both got experience of being kidnapped now so if it had happened again you would be prepared.

 

Those envelopes they found in the safety deposit box could have held possibly vital clues so it was pity everyone got their mucky paws all over them and the memory sticks no one thought to wear gloves and get them checked out properly. 

 

The interview with the reporter was kind of sad and funny at the same time. Good to see them recognise his fame as a writer, now if only they could delve into more of that aspect of his life. I'd like to believe they will as promised in interviews and hinted at in this episode about the incident at Hollanders Woods but fear what's coming is going to make me wish they hadn't bothered.  

 

Lividity Lanie had slightly more to do this week. She was of course flirting with Espo and she's back to being Beckett's sounding board. Not that she said anything that exciting, all she does is usually listen, offer often useless advice, nod sympathetically and when the plot calls for it get Kate worried about Castle - Tamala probably doesn't even need a script.

 

Wow Marlowe really pushed the boat out with Kate and Alexis talking to each other this episode. they must have had their ration now for the first half of the season at least. 

 

"Wouldn't you find the plot a little hard to swallow? Amnesia really?" You speak for quite a few folks out there Brooke.

 

 

[KaveDweller]

Why did they go hide in the bedroom from Martha's date when you can see right through into it?  That's always freaked me out that people can see and hear everything that's going on.

I saw some posts on Tumblr where someone posted pictures showing that there is at least glass between all those bookshelves.  So maybe it's at least soundproof, and they were in front of the door. 

The interview with the reporter was kind of sad and funny at the same time. Good to see them recognise his fame as a writer, now if only they could delve into more of that aspect of his life.

I didn't like hearing that his book sales were down.  But I think that was for the Storm book and not Raging Heat.  I don't know why that matters to me.

[verdana]

Did Marlowe write this episode? 

 

He most certainly did. 

So, basically, the "new mythology" is that something shady went down with Castle for two months. That's some great intricate storytelling there.

 

Yeah that's all I got from two hours of storytelling or 1 hour 30 mins my case. So great to have no ads! 

[benteen]

Good episode, I enjoyed it.  Figured it was the guy's assistant who did the murder.  They use that kind of scene too much, have someone who works in the company pop up for five seconds who always turns out to be the killer.

[verdana]

Cockblocking dogs? We've got to that stage now? Marlowe please stop with the interrupted kiss bullshit, it's beyond tiresome, it was never funny for me, it's stupid, pointless and frustrating as hell and juvenile. In fact there were two more moments (one where she stroked his face and the end scene) where I think they could have fitted in a kiss no problem. Is it really that hard to do? Worse you put it in an episode where Gates gets more action from Rick than Beckett does. At this stage I feel Marlowe's doing it deliberately because he's heard the repeated grumblings and he wants to piss off a section of the fan base just for the sheer hell of it. 

 

So Martha went to grief counselling.  That's another of those "show don't tell" moments, I'd rather have seen something of how they were all coping when Castle was gone than being told about it in this way, it would have made last week's episode far more involving. But that's how these writers prefer to roll which means a lot of opportunities get wasted for good character development.

 

I don't give a shit about when the wedding is, yeah I know others do which is fair enough but don't start dangling that carrot again Marlowe I'm not nibbling but if you do the maths it's set up for the AU episode (7.06).  

 

Whilst Kate was talking to Castle about finding their solid ground together what I actually heard was "look Rick we can't get married yet, we need to ensure great ratings, lets wait until November sweeps."

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[GeorgieNY]

I was following he writers' live tweeting and they all think it's just hilarious that they didn't kiss. I don't really care except it is so unnatural and forced to keep them from kissing! It's distracting!! He can kiss Gates but not his fiancé?

I thought this was better than last week at least.

[oberon55]

I'm curious about the timeline. When did they give Castle amnesia & why have him floating around in a boat? After they made him forget why not just drop him off in a city? Why the tent & boat. Whoever is in this with Castle seem pretty bad at the whole conspiracy thing.

[verdana]

As for Castle kissing Gates. Just No. Wasn't funny on any level. Especially given there was no Caskett kiss forthcoming. You can't do something like that and not give in return. And there was zero set up for it whatsoever as to why he would behave in this OOC manner, and I don't count getting those messages a good enough reason, just stupid shit done for a cheap gag and over the top and silly. Totally inappropriate behaviour in the office with your no nonsense lady boss and a work colleague looking on - your fiancée no less. Shows disrespect all around, a bad decision in the writers room, didn't seem like Castle would do this even either as the Castle of old or after suffering amnesia, it should have stayed on the S7 blooper reel where it belongs.

 

I guess this is sacrilege to say this but I'm kind of getting less and less excited hearing them keep saying "Always" to each other as a means of conveying the depth of their devotion, it can get overused. Fans are already making comparison gifs of the letter Kate wrote ITBOTB to Castle's video to Kate. Marlowe loves this kind of mirroring but once he finds something he has a tendency to recycle it over and over till it loses it's power. 

[KaveDweller]

So, I guess that nice couple who had the picture of Castle in Montreal got the $250K?  And who goes to Montreal on their honeymoon?  No offense to Montreal or anything.

 

I laughed at Alexis acting like her going to Canada with him would make it safe. I can't believe Beckett agreed to that.

 

Did someone who pays more attention then me notice if the address on Kate's envelope was the same as Alexis and Marthas?

 

I was following he writers' live tweeting and they all think it's just hilarious that they didn't kiss.

Of course they do.  They like to frustrate the audience.

 

Why the tent & boat. Whoever is in this with Castle seem pretty bad at the whole conspiracy thing.

It would have made more sense if they used a boat no one could track and left no sign of him anywhere.  Hacking into the DMV, planting the tent, that just seems like a lot of ways to make mistakes and let people find out what happened.

Edited October 7, 2014 by KaveDweller

[Hipshooter]

There was a COTW? Must of missed it.

The New Mythology.............. needs to pick up the tempo a bit.

 

Highlight tonight............ Tory Ellis !

 

A month......... Really?

 

Next week?? Invisible killer !?!?

 

 

I'm more upset about accidentally deleting all of the Banshee  episodes on my DVR. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Hipshooter

[McManda]

Now even a dog is interrupting Caskett kisses.  Really?

 

Eh, not the first time it's happened.

 

Why did they go hide in the bedroom from Martha's date when you can see right through into it?  That's always freaked me out that people can see and hear everything that's going on.

 

KaveDweller is right - there's at least glass between the two spaces (also between his room and his office). And it's not like Martha's date would be scouring the loft to make sure her presumed dead son wasn't around. As long as he wasn't in the same room, it's likely that the dude wouldn't have noticed.

 

So Martha went to grief counselling.  That's another of those "show don't tell" moments, I'd rather have seen something of how they were all coping when Castle was gone than being told about it in this way, it would have made last week's episode far more involving. But that's how these writers prefer to roll which means a lot of opportunities get wasted for good character development.

 

Except if they put that stuff in (as in, show, don't tell) then people get angry about it taking up time that could have been devoted to the case. Find the evidence, find the story, find the answer. Bottom line, Castle is a procedural and not a drama. We're not going to get scenes of Martha in counseling (because she's a secondary character - the only reason we got Beckett in counseling is because it related to the B-story of the season) or whatever emotional scenes they could come up with for the others.

 

Whilst Kate was talking to Castle about finding their solid ground together what I actually heard was "look Rick we can't get married yet, we need to ensure great ratings, lets wait until November sweeps."

 

I don't understand this cynicism. Honestly, I don't think Beckett's emotionally ready to get married. Her presumed-dead fiancee showed back up, with no memory of his missing time, with all the evidence pointing to it being a deliberate setup by him, and Beckett herself admitting that she's choosing to trust him and not the evidence (which is something that S1 Beckett would never do and honestly, something that I'm not sure even now-Beckett would do if it weren't to do with Castle).

 

But no, the takeaway is that it's a ratings ploy? Even if it is, at least they have some character driven backing to it.

 

Did someone who pays more attention then me notice if the address on Kate's envelope was the same as Alexis and Marthas?

 

It wasn't. Martha and Alexis's letters were going to 595 Broome Street (the loft), Beckett's letter was going to 2540 East 3rd Street.

Edited October 7, 2014 by McManda

[verdana]

I was following he writers' live tweeting and they all think it's just hilarious that they didn't kiss. I don't really care except it is so unnatural and forced to keep them from kissing! It's distracting!! He can kiss Gates but not his fiancé?

I thought this was better than last week at least.

I caught a few of those on tumblr as I don't follow twitter but that doesn't surprise they must genuinely believe it's really funny. *sigh* I can't believe they don't know how much it frustrates some fans because it's so repetitive and unnecessary. They're together now and they should be allowed to kiss and doing these deliberate cockblocks and interruptions of various kinds just feels really childish not mature writing at all. 

 

Did someone who pays more attention then me notice if the address on Kate's envelope was the same as Alexis and Marthas?

 

I went and checked no! LOL He must have written the letter to her apartment building. Martha and Alexis had the same address. 

[moodyblue]

I enjoyed the episode. I did think the case of the week was a little boring and became somewhat lost with the focus on the Castle mystery, but I think that was intentional. I like the way they are setting up the Castle mystery, slowly giving us and Castle small clues as to what happened to him. It feels less like a procedural and more like a serial drama. I hope they keep it up and don't drop it for half a season like they have been known to do.

 

I understand why Beckett wants to wait on getting married right away. The way Castle said, "Let's get married tomorrow," felt too much like putting a bandaid on the problem rather than giving them to time to heal. They are still both fragile and they don't need to be rushing things right now.

 

I had not seen the kiss Castle gave Gates before tonight, but I knew it was coming. I thought it was dumb, and it felt like it was put there just to give a reason for Castle and Gates to kiss. It was made even more ridiculous given the history of the lack of kisses between Castle and Beckett, which has been incredibly noticeable in the two episodes this season.

[verdana]

Except if they put that stuff in (as in, show, don't tell) then people get angry about it taking up time that could have been devoted to the case. Find the evidence, find the story, find the answer. Bottom line, Castle is a procedural and not a drama. We're not going to get scenes of Martha in counseling (because she's a secondary character - the only reason we got Beckett in counseling is because it related to the B-story of the season) or whatever emotional scenes they could come up with for the others.

Really? Because I don't see fans clamouring for more COTW time frankly. They would like more character development because that's what makes the story interesting not the case itself. It's the characters that draw me in not the cases. And I wasn't necessarily suggesting we get Martha in an exact same scenario as Beckett because that would be repetitive But we could have had more of seeing how Martha and Alexis coped with the man who is the centre of their lives missing for two months but instead all I get was case development that went nowhere. To find out she had been to counselling in that throwaway line when we saw so little of them in Driven was frustrating. Also Marlowe or Amann (I can't remember which) said recently they want to spend more time on the secondary characters. If they want to do that then they have to start spending actual time on them and this would have been a good way to start. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[sinkwriter]

 

Much better Castle.   Castle engaged in the story, with his crazy theories.  Alexis being by her Dad's side, Lani with Esposito, Ryan obsessing about family.  Yes, a win for a change.

 

I agree. I was concerned at first, when Castle went back to Montreal on his own, but I like that he came clean to his family instead of pretending he learned nothing. I'm glad he told them the truth. I appreciated that, I appreciated that Alexis went with her dad to Montreal (I liked their moment when they both paused before opening the security box), and I liked the final scene where Castle and Beckett seemed so comfortable with one another in bed, talking it all out and then turning to face one another for more connection. It was nice.

 

And I liked that Castle seemed more concerned than he was last week -- I felt it was fine that he was so quiet last week because I figured he was still overwhelmed by everything and also because he'd just woken up after being unconscious for who knows how long. I felt that was natural and understandable, but I hoped that this week he'd be more driven for answers and more verbal about his confusion, and he was all of that, so I liked that about this episode.

 

I am concerned about where they're going to go with this mystery (because you know Castle's not going to be able to drop this; it's going to eat at him at some point, he's a mystery guy who likes to know the story of it all). I hope they're not going to paint Castle in a bad light. Frankly, I think I'd prefer it if we found out that he learned something about someone else, like maybe his own mother and/or father, and decided he didn't want to remember that. 

 

I'm curious about that hint about why he became a mystery writer. I've always wondered that since Beckett first asked him and he wove that fake story about seeing a kid's body wash up on shore ("It's what I do!" LOL). So I hope they delve into that at some point. I'd like to know!

 

 

So Martha went to grief counselling.  That's another of those "show don't tell" moments, I'd rather have seen something of how they were all coping when Castle was gone than being told about it in this way, it would have made last week's episode far more involving.

 

So much agreement there. This is one of those things we were talking about with last week's episode. I really wanted to see more of Martha and Alexis in that episode, and how their missing son/father affected them. Susan is a terrific actress; how can they waste that by not giving us at least ONE scene where we see that her only child may be dead?? How can we not see her turn to Alexis or hide her own pain in order to comfort Alexis, the only tie to Castle and the only family she may have left if it turns out her son is dead? How could we not see that? It would have been so much more powerful than a toss-off remark about how she went to grief counseling and picked up a guy there. *sigh*

 

Edited to add in reference to McManda's comment: I don't need to see Martha in counseling, either. But like verdana said, we get these toss-off lines about the grief she was going through; I would have liked to have SEEN some of that (rather than be told about it). Surely they could have skipped an investigative scene or two in last week's episode in order to make room for something with more emotional impact, something that would show how much Castle meant to his mother. Outside of Alexis, he may be her only remaining family. That's important! And I've loved when we've seen Martha get protective and loving about her family. When she and Castle were held up in that bank heist, and the robber put his gun to Castle's neck, Martha had to be held back, she was yelling, "Don't you touch him!" I loved seeing that about her, how she may be a lot of things but she loves her son. So I think we should have seen what his being missing did to her.

Edited October 7, 2014 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

 

And who goes to Montreal on their honeymoon?  No offense to Montreal or anything.

 

I've never been, but one of my neighbors is on a trip there right now and she says it's beautiful.  

[KaveDweller]

Frankly, I think I'd prefer it if we found out that he learned something about someone else, like maybe his own mother and/or father, and decided he didn't want to remember that.

 

I would love it if it was about Martha and Susan Sullivan got more to do.  Maybe it ties into his childhood and whatever happened in those woods?

Edited October 7, 2014 by KaveDweller

[McManda]

Really? Because I don't see fans clamouring for more COTW time frankly.

 

They can't tie Martha in counseling to the COTW, so they don't do it. It's that simple. It's not that people want more COTW (although, yes, I do see complaining if they took time away from the COTW to play out an extra, if maybe emotionally important one, especially when the argument is already that the COTW is often weak as is). It's that if they can't tie it to the COTW, an emotional moment like that - while maybe fulfilling for some - feels incomplete. Like it was pandering for audience sympathy. It needs to fit with the flow of the episode and unfortunately, there's not a great way to fit it in, so instead they tell. They've always told us stuff like that. Martha dedicated her acting studio to Chet with a portrait. Alexis and Ashley met in the park for a Valentine's Day date.

 

I don't know. I guess I don't need to see Martha at a support group. I'd like to see a bit more emotional depth from the characters when they interact - like a more emotional reunion or a moment between Martha and Castle after he was back - but I don't necessarily need to see her while he was gone.

[sinkwriter]

 

I would love it if it was about Martha and Susan Sullivan got more to do.  Maybe it ties into his childhood and whatever happened in those woods?

 

Maybe one of her many ex-husbands was not so nice, and to protect her son she killed the ex. On a camping trip. In the woods. Where his body was never found. Dun dun DUNNNNNNN!

 

 

I'd like to see a bit more emotional depth from the characters when they interact - like a more emotional reunion or a moment between Martha and Castle after he was back

 

Agreed. That's really what I'm talking about, that I'd like to see emotional interaction between the characters. So I don't need to see Martha in counseling, but I would have liked to have seen a scene between her and Beckett or her and Alexis (or both) while Castle was still missing. And after he was found, I would have LOVED a mother-son scene. I mean, come on! Don't waste Susan's talents! Her scenes with Nathan are just so lovely. I just don't understand why the writers wouldn't want to have something rich like that. 

 

*sigh* This is why I'd never make a good TV writer.  I don't understand stuff like this. My preferences go in a totally different direction, it seems.

Edited October 7, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Elysium1973]

I really disliked this episode. A.W. Marlowe doesn't write any better than Andrew W. Marlowe, sadly. The kiss with Gates and the kissus interruptus were beyond fucking stupid. That bit got old two years ago, you fucking hack.

The girl that plays Tory is a really bad actress.

How many times did they need to go to the "Big" joke well? 134,876? Oh look it's a huge keyboard! I can't believe it works! And that Krazy Kastle, shooting the assistant with the toy gun while being berefit in the last scene. I guess that's just him "loving everybody".

I did like the fact that they didn't have much interaction with Castle and Espo. I wonder how much longer that continuity will last.

Why isn't SpyKidDetective!Alexis ever in school?

If Caskett are really not keeping any secrets why would he go back to Montreal alone five minutes after he was kidnapped? Not only is it irresponsible, it's disrespectful to his family. I know Beckett has done some solo missions in the past (though in later seasons she's kept Castle in the loop) but she's a cop, for fuck's sake. He's a 40 something unarmed mystery writer.

And maybe it's just me, but I'm completely confused as to what in the hell is going on with this new mythology. So Castle saw/did something when he was 11 that made him want to be a writer that no one knows about...and then he wants to be taken to do/see something but can't deal with the consequences so they Eternal-Sunshine-of-the-Spotless-Mind-him and now he can't/won't know what happened to him. And the truth is I sort of dont care what in the hell he was up to for two months, since no one else really seems that invested in figuring it out. I mean Beckett is having her "girl talk" with Laine about this "shadow" over her and Castle and based on appearances, I have no idea what she's talking about. Eye roll? Check. Castle acting like a man child? Check. Castle being interested in any other woman but Beckett? Check. It seems to me to mostly be business as usual. And I'm ok with that, because lord knows this show doesn't know how to bring the drama. But it's show not tell, Marlowe. Writing 101.

I will say that the most interesting for me was in the last 10 seconds of the episode. The look on Castle's face combined with the music sent a chill down my spine. Now that was interesting. It was very creepy and almost menacing and I nice bit of business from NF. There's part of me that would like to see a dark, complex side of his character explored - even if it put Caskett in peril. And I'm with @verdana, "always" is loosing it's efficacy for me as well. I did appreciate the ILY's in the episode, though.

Looks like we won't have to wait long for Doofus!Castle to make an appearance. The promo showing NF doing his beloved pratfalls is evidence of that.

I think Fillion has lost more weight and is now able to escape the horrible coats. He's looking better. Let's hope he keeps it up.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Elysium1973

[verdana]

I don't understand this cynicism. Honestly, I don't think Beckett's emotionally ready to get married. Her presumed-dead fiancee showed back up, with no memory of his missing time, with all the evidence pointing to it being a deliberate setup by him, and Beckett herself admitting that she's choosing to trust him and not the evidence (which is something that S1 Beckett would never do and honestly, something that I'm not sure even now-Beckett would do if it weren't to do with Castle).

 

I'm not suggesting she was emotionally in the right frame of mind during that scene but I don't buy for a minute that any of this is organic and something the writers always planned to do, the story doesn't feel honest to me and natural and it hasn't from the start of 6.23. The characters feel as if they are being pulled from week to week in whatever direction they need to go emotionally to achieve the writers aims. 

 

What interests me with the way they've set this up with both of them agreeing they need time to find themselves again is am I going to see any indication that they've gone through a period of reflection and discussed how they feel with each other before the actual wedding? Or is that another moment that must be discarded because it's not something they can fit into COTW. Will it be a case of them getting married one day on the spur of the moment and I'm left to presume they've dealt with it off screen. 

[tankgirl73]

And who goes to Montreal on their honeymoon?  No offense to Montreal or anything.

 

 

My friend and her newlywed wife actually just got back yesterday from their honeymoon in Montreal.  It's actually a well respected tourist destination.

 

How did the guy know to find Castle in that spot at that time?  Should we presume that he spent most of the 2 months there?  Because if they were only there a short time, it would not be a logical place to wait for Castle.  Was he watching Castle, surveilling him to make sure he didn't remember or go looking for things?  And if he's on Castle's "side", then why hold the gun on him the whole time?  Sure, have a gun ready in case Castle doesn't trust him and tries too attack or something, but show that you're trustworthy by not threatening to shoot him.

And what would shooting him achieve, anyway?  Castle didn't want to remember -- but did he say "and if I try to remember, kill me"??

[verdana]

If Caskett are really not keeping any secrets why would he go back to Montreal alone five minutes after he was kidnapped? Not only is it irresponsible, it's disrespectful to his family. I know Beckett has done some solo missions in the past (though in later seasons she's kept Castle in the loop) but she's a cop, for fuck's sake. He's a 40 something unarmed mystery writer.

I thought it was pretty reckless too but of course Kate could hardly call him out on it since she had done exactly the same thing in ITBOTB.  But he had no clue what possible danger he was getting into there and I agree with the posters who say it's odd that Castle agreed to get his memory wiped given how insatiably curious the guy is. It must have been pretty dark stuff which worries me because I hate it when Castle tries to go all serious as a show, it's not cut out for it.  

 

With regard to the trip to the bank halwideman (I think) was right that the excuse why she couldn't go was that she had a case which she couldn't get away from. I call bullshit on that, I'm quite sure Gates would have let her take the time off being her star detective and drafted someone else in to cover they weren't flying off to Australia or anything. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[verdana]

I will say that the most interesting for me was in the last 10 seconds of the episode. The look on Castle's face combined with the music sent a chill down my spine. Now that was interesting. It was very creepy and almost menacing and I nice bit of business from NF. There's part of me that would like to see a dark, complex side of his character explored - even if it put Caskett in peril. And I'm with @verdana, "always" is loosing it's efficacy for me as well. I did appreciate the ILY's in the episode, though.

I smiled a bit at that because I thought this time we're getting the Castle equivalent in a way of the Beckett *worried look* to close out a scene dun dun dun!  Much as I'd like to see a more complex (but not necessarily too dark) side of Castle the author I don't have faith in these writers to pull it off well in a way that's truly satisfying and doesn't end up harming the characters in some way. 

[bittersweetlily]

Wouldn't you find the plot a little hard to swallow? Amnesia really?

 

"See, audience, we know you think this is hackneyed crap but, if we say it first, then we're being cheeky and meta and self-deprecating and a dozen other synonyms for full of shit."  As if winking at the audience makes it better writing.

 

As others have said, it was a better episode than last week. I know, I know. Damning with faint praise. But the show is on steadier ground when it moves away from the big bads and overarching mythologies. The COTW episodes are the show's bread and butter -- construct a half-decent crime with a half-decent resolution and the show's, well, not golden exactly. Copper, perhaps? ; )

[turnitwayup]

 

I'm curious about that hint about why he became a mystery writer. I've always wondered that since Beckett first asked him and he wove that fake story about seeing a kid's body wash up on shore ("It's what I do!" LOL). So I hope they delve into that at some point. I'd like to know!

 

Me too. I rather hear about why he became a mystery writer than some weird, random mythology that is starting to sound a bit CIA-ish.

 

 

Why isn't SpyKidDetective!Alexis ever in school?

 

I'm guessing it's still summer maybe August since she was able to go with Castle to Montreal. Maybe next ep will be set in September where Columbia is back in session. Rewatched the ending scene and now is really wondering what month is it really. If it's August then the wedding would be in September which was originally planned. If it's October then the wedding is in November, Alexis should be in school and they manage to remember that Jim is in Europe for work during October. A point for them some a tiny bit of continuity.

 

I did like classic Castle touching things and Ryan also playing with the toys too. Plus I like seeing Beckett and Ryan off visiting the toy warehouse together since Espo has been annoying me. I really don't care anymore about Esplaine, but this storyline will probably at least get Tamala to do something than talk about lividity. Another plus we didn't have wine on the couch 3 ft apart convo, but was Beckett wearing some cardigan, shawl or thin robe in bed?

 

The kissing interruptus is really getting redic. I could see Castle going up to Gates to hug her and she still be completely wtf? but the peck on the lips is just dumb. Castle's reaction to ufo tip guy and him not wanting to talk about it to Beckett did crack me up. So at least some humor came out of the tip hotline.

 

So Tory finding the unique building pattern in the window behind Castle was basically the same thing when the FBI found the unique bridge pattern in the window behind Shaw in Boom. At least they're using the same technology that was used seasons ago.

 

Shatner is live tweeting the ep so it might be entertaining.

Edited October 7, 2014 by turnitwayup

[verdana]

Castle Recap: 'Some Mysteries Aren't Meant To Be Solved' by Matt at TV Line.

 

Matt didn't think much of the case of the week.

 

* The Case of the Week was kind of a mess; the motive for murder could be seen coming down Broadway. (On TV these days, it seems that if there’s a warehouse, there’s drug smuggling!) That said, it was good to see The Closer‘s Gina Ravera again. And any theories on who the culprit, “Matt M.”, was named after? (Could have cast him cuter, ahem!)

 

 

 

[verdana]

Andrew W. Marlowe @AndrewWMarlowe  ·  3 hrs 3 hours ago

Look at that heat between Gates and Castle!

 

But Marlowe I want to see heat between Castle and Beckett, you know that couple you've built the show around. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by verdana

[WendyCR72]

Wow, Gina Ravarra is still working? Good for her. Never knew she was on The Closer (didn't watch), but I remember her in the '90s on Silk Stalkings as one of the MEs. The Lainie of her day or something.  :-)

[Ticketyboo23]

Overall I didn't think this sucked as much as last week & some of the problems with it were created by the 42mins of mess that was last week. I thought the COTW was ok & should have been an episode in it's own right as it plus Castle's story made everything a little cramped.

The worst parts:

Beckett 'choosing' to believe Castle 'despite the evidence'. Yep he arranged to be run off the road, dragged from the car, shot & be exposed to dengue fever whilst living in a tiny tent just up the Coast before setting sail in a bullet riddled dinghy. Huh?

The first real lead on the case & Beckett can't take a day away to go with him?

How did Castle ever expect his loved ones to see the videos if they were locked in a safety deposit box only he had the key for? If he had been killed was there some deal his body was returned? Without that couple's seemingly random photograph how would they have known where to look?

The same guy who faked Castle's beach party tells Castle he wanted to forget & Castle believes him? What's to say that secret wasn't forced out of him under duress? If he was complicit during the missing months why did it appear he had escaped when he was found? If he was making choices why did he jump in a dinghy with someone shooting at him?

Why does Beckett seem so disinterested in finding answers? If she has doubts wouldn't she want more information to either support her tenuous 'belief' in Castle or catch him in a lie?

I can take twists & inconsistencies for now as they obviously don't know how they are going to tie this all up. What I can't swallow is how they have the characters reacting. They should have played it straight.

[verdana]

The worst parts:

Beckett 'choosing' to believe Castle 'despite the evidence'. Yep he arranged to be run off the road, dragged from the car, shot & be exposed to dengue fever whilst living in a tiny tent just up the Coast before setting sail in a bullet riddled dinghy. Huh?

Yeah I have to admit when she told Lanie that I was thinking would this be the same evidence Kate that any rookie detective with an ounce of common sense would have realised didn't add up?  After six years working side by side it was as if Kate and the boys never really knew him at all. 

The way she said that she was "choosing" to trust him suggests to me that she obviously didn't trust him before this but the so called "evidence" has been such a let down in terms of believability that the way the writers had her behaving for large portions of the last two episodes doesn't make sense given her previously finely honed detective skills and her ability to look beyond the obvious or the plain bizarre. The character is doubting because the writers need her to doubt for the story to work in the way they want but it doesn't feel genuine.  

 

The dog wasn't a nun in its prior life. Marlowe was.

 

Heh. Don't forget his wife. She's just as bad. 

[cappuccino]

Overall, though, I will admit that this episode was better, even by the mere fact that Castle came back and was honest with everyone about what happened. Both times he went to Montreal.

Did he tell them it all comes back to whatever happened to him in the woods when he was 11 years old ? Or did I get that part wrong ? I don't really get that anyway. So something happened in the woods when Castle was 11 years old. No one but him knows about it and that's why he became a mystery writer. YEARS later whatever happened there comes knocking on his door and he has to do something about it ? On his wedding day ? Which leads to him getting shot, infected with Dengue fever, in a dinghy with no recollection of what happened in those two months and now he is apparently responsible for the memory loss himself since whatever came back made him do it ?

 

This is like the last seasons of The X Files where you think you get answers but instead they themselves have no idea how to get out of the mythology and then they throw some super soldiers into the mix.

 

That episode was better than last week but seriously Caskett is the most kiss deprived and romance lacking couple I have encounter in my tv show years. That no kissing agreement is beyond stupid and I don't see the funny in co$kblocking ANY attempt. Lets see what the Creasey's have in store next week.

[oberon55]

I hate to admit it but I don't blame Beckett for being worried. Hell if it was me I would suspect Castle of having had a psychotic break. At this point Castle's story is "See babe a funny thing happened on the way to our wedding. I may or may not have set up my own fiery death as a cover so I could do something so horrible that rather than face it I had my memory wiped. But don't worry I'm feeling much better now."

[GenieinTX]

Yeah, Pod Castle was gone.  NFillion acting was back.  And it was so much better.

 

I am appalled that the writers are having fun keeping an engaged couple from kissing on camera.  Are there any fans out there happy about that?  Who are they making happy with that besides themselves?  Did the OTT shippers in the beginning annoy the showrunners that badly?  Good grief.  They were in bed together talking about marriage for god's sake, they couldn't kiss?  So damn stupid.

Edited October 7, 2014 by GenieinTX

[KaveDweller]

"See, audience, we know you think this is hackneyed crap but, if we say it first, then we're being cheeky and meta and self-deprecating and a dozen other synonyms for full of shit." As if winking at the audience makes it better writing.

I hate when shows do that kind of thing, but it did make me laugh a little here. Maybe because it wasn't a main character?

Why does Beckett seem so disinterested in finding answers? If she has doubts wouldn't she want more information to either support her tenuous 'belief' in Castle or catch him in a lie?

I don't think she seemed disinterested at all, at least not until they heard he asked for the memory wipe. Then she thought they should respect that decision.

Yes, Castle had fleeting doubts and asked questions, but Kate is STILL on board with the "Castle lived in the world's smallest tent with no food or water or creature comforts except his tux and watch" story.

There was a whole stack of food and water inside that tent.

I know trashing Beckett is popular and all, but I don't get the annoyance about her "despite the evidence" comment. There is evidence that Castle knew something and/or could have contacted her. They don't have the full story, but there is evidence of that. And she said she is ignoring the evidence and trusting him that it was planted. Isn't that what trust is? Believing in someone when you don't have concrete evidence?

I don't think her comment to Lanie meant she still thought Castle was lying, just that the whole situation made her uncomfortable. Saying that doesn't mean that she believes the whole living in a tent story, or that she thinks Castle just bailed on their wedding, just that she still has unanswered questions.

[tv echo]

I realize that, after 6 seasons, the producers are probably running out of ideas, but I can't help feeling that this Castle amnesia mystery is going to end up being a 'jump the shark' moment. 

 

So Castle was run off the road on the way to his wedding by someone tied to something that happened when he was a child.  (I don't think that part was set up by him - he looked too surprised.)  That someone convinced him that he had to disappear and take care of something right away.  Then he apparently chose to have his memory wiped, probably right after he made those memory discs for Beckett and his family.

 

If he doesn't want to remember, then he must believe that remembering will somehow threaten his relationship with Beckett or his family or his life.

Edited October 7, 2014 by tv echo

[FlickerToAFlame]

Is Castle 11 years older than Beckett? Maybe he's her father and wants to erase his memory/forget that. It would explain the lack of intimacy as well ;).

Seriously though, maybe when he was 11 something related to Beckett's birth/family happened and he thinks his acknowledging it would ruin their relationship?

[tljgator]

So, the Castle writers are just ripping off their past episodes and hodge-podging them into a case of the week [drug-sniffing dog from 'Embarrassment of Bitches'; heroin smuggled into the country in a disparate product from 'Knockdown'; the assistant did it; etc. etc.], then shoe-horning in the "new mythology"?  Boring and confusing. Meh.

 

I didn't necessarily think that the story about why 11-year-old Castle decided to be a mystery writer was related to the whatever went down while he was missing, just that he knew it was the one thing he had never told anyone else, so if this guy mentioned it, he'd know to believe what he was saying. Since so little of this story makes sense, though, I could be completely wrong about that.

[Lucynda]

They said they wiped his memory three weeks ago? And he doesn't remember anything in between the crash and waking up in the hospital? So, he was in that dinghy, shot at, and then they wiped his memory but left him on the water to die? Or was his memory wiped first, and then he got dumped at sea in that dinghy and was shot at but was unconscious for the whole process? But what sense would that make? First they go through "great lengths" to make sure he doesn't remember anything, then they leave him to die?

Either I'm missing something or something doesn't add up (yet?).

 

All in all, I liked the episode (that "kissing" scene excluded). Loved Alexis' reaction in the last scene and how everyone was still struggling with the events (except maybe Martha?) but trying to bring some normalcy back into their lives. Loved Kate's sublte looks/reactions, they say so much about her.

 

Also, I think that bank manager knew more than he let on. Or maybe we were just supposed to believe that and I fell for it?

[mbutterfly]

There was a case? There were dogs in it that's all I got. I really should pay more attention.  

 

At least this time it felt more balanced than last week with Castle and Beckett and we actually got to see Castle explore his feelings a little more which rarely happens. 

 

The writers have got the rewards to mythology ratio right yet, you need to throw audiences a few bones to reward them for jerking them around over a wedding, then giving them jack shit to work with in the following two episodes but lots and lots of questions and very few (if any) answers.  You just know this story is going to be dropped like a stone until probably after Christmas and everyone is going to get a giant dose of Castle amnesia. 

 

I laughed since we were just talking about it on the other thread, Esplaine they're definitely back on! And whilst I couldn't care less about this development I am pleased for Tamala.

 

Seamus dancing on the keyboard immediately reminded me of Tom Hanks in Big.

 

Tory.

 

Why did they go hide in the bedroom from Martha's date when you can see right through into it?  That's always freaked me out that people can see and hear everything that's going on. Not that there is anything going on in there mind you to concern them. Kind of depressing to think Martha probably gets way more action and excitement than Caskett do on the sex front. Nice to see that she does have a life outside of the loft even if we never see it.  More Susan please.

 

Jenny and the baby gets a mention. Good to know they're alive and well.

 

Beckett is finally wearing her ring at work all the time, Hallelujah.

BBM, this! Can we have a really big Martha COTW. Just let Susan pull out all the stops. Maybe for Christmas. That would be delicious. 

[madmaverick]

Better than Driven.  The mystery about Castle's disappearance was more engaging this week because we were investigating alongside an invested Castle.  It'll still likely be forgotten until whenever the next mythology episode is and Castle conveniently gets memory flashbacks or another mysterious phone call to meet in another sketchy warehouse. ;)

 

Character interactions were more satisfactory than last week but I still don't like that Beckett is having trust issues with Castle that she shared with Lanie even if she's putting up a supportive front with Castle.  It makes me feel that she's not ready to be married to the guy and I don't like feeling that way about her/them.

 

The worst parts:
Beckett 'choosing' to believe Castle 'despite the evidence'. Yep he arranged to be run off the road, dragged from the car, shot & be exposed to dengue fever whilst living in a tiny tent just up the Coast before setting sail in a bullet riddled dinghy. Huh?

 

 

Exactly.  Beckett shouldn't be doubting Castle both because of the evidence doesn't hold up, but more importantly, because of his character and as the guy she couldn't wait to spend the rest of her life with. That belief should be steadfast and not waver easily.  She really needs to believe in him when he's going through such a vulnerable, confused period himself.

 

The same guy who faked Castle's beach party tells Castle he wanted to forget & Castle believes him? What's to say that secret wasn't forced out of him under duress? If he was complicit during the missing months why did it appear he had escaped when he was found? If he was making choices why did he jump in a dinghy with someone shooting at him?

 

Count me in as also sceptical that fakeJenkins should be believed just because he shared some knowledge of The Mystery in Hollander Woods (book coming to you soon! ;)).  They could have found out about that (that could be the whole reason why they are after Castle in the first place) under duress, some other kind of drug inducement since they even seem capable of wiping out memories.  Castle's always been a guy who placed a high value in finding out the story and in telling Alexis the truth even when it wasn't easy, it just doesn't seem in character to me that he would ask to forget.

 

The emotion in the video message was palpable so that was good (as was scruffy Castle), and Castle's conflicting emotions throughout were clearly conveyed.  (Though part of me was also thinking you don't really need 3 memory cards for 30 second messages heh, and I was wondering why Castle didn't choose the written word instead.  Marlowe probably thought video would be more impactful.)  I would have like to see more in the video message than an ILU + Always, which was fine and importantly the emotion was there, but like Beckett's letter in ITBOTB, I keep hoping for more... something less generic and more uniquely special to them.  Beckett caressing Castle's face was nice, but I thought the moment was kind of crying out for a hug, if not a kiss.

 

(scripted) Tactical smooching of someone other than your significant other is just not to my taste.  Tactical avoidance of smooching of your significant other is definitely not to my taste, but I see that they continue to insist on plenty of that. ;)   Dogblocking, or blocking by any other means is so overdone.  And then I see the sneak peek for next week...

 

I did like Castle and Alexis' little Montreal mission (though yes, obviously still risky to have Alexis there but handwaving).  Alexis telling her Dad (the audience) all about safe deposit boxes had me laughing and eye rolling a bit considering her Dad's still giving her an allowance from his bank.

 

Good to see Caskett having some real conversation in bed in the closing scene.  Still think it's a bit clunky the way they write these serious conversations.  'Finding our way home' didn't work for me, and 'finding solid ground' didn't really either.  Aren't there more natural ways to say those things?  Still, at least they hashed things out somewhat and Beckett's doubts didn't resurface again in the moment.  The intimacy wasn't too bad, but Beckett wearing too many clothes was a bit distracting, and the intimacy might be heightened if they shot both of them in the same frame so we could see their body/eye language with each other instead of closeups of them individually.

[verdana]

That episode was better than last week but seriously Caskett is the most kiss deprived and romance lacking couple I have encounter in my tv show years. That no kissing agreement is beyond stupid and I don't see the funny in co$kblocking ANY attempt. Lets see what the Creasey's have in store next week.

Talking of cockblocking I thought this gif set kind of summed up how quite a few (at least on line) feel about the use of this particular gimmick Marlowe loves to employ.