S10.E01: X

[normasm]

Zannej, I imagine if MGG had heard about the Coobie bra, his mind would turn to a Goobie bra, too!!

 

And people, cut the woman some slack, she's still nursing her daughter. 

 

And, yeah, the fake leg that didn't bend as a real one would. They just looked plastic to me, and the torsos where the legs were removed had no anatomical landscape that would be in reality. And don't get me started on the live victim and her chopped off arm. Oh, and, folks, if one was to chop off someone's head between the 1st and 2nd vertebrae, it would likely take off part of the lower jaw, that's how high it is...

Edited October 3, 2014 by normasm

[Wilowy]

The Goobies were awards that Matthew gave out to cast and crew in 2010. Little statuettes that were for things like "Worst Haircut" and the like. Here's a video and I believe they were an extra on the dvd. Adorable. 

 

[90PercentGravity]

Coobie has a funny definition of "full-size." They only go up to DD. Even Victoria Secret goes up to DDD.

[Brattinella]

Well, I can attest to comfort and support at D.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's get back to the episode, folks. Thanks!

[Brattinella]

Sorry. :(

[LakeGal]

I thought Kate fit in great with the group.  I think I am going to like her.  But I hated her hair. 

[SSAHotchner]

I think that a busy working woman like Kate probably wouldn't have the time or inclination to go look up the Coobie bra.. And now my brain is going off on a tangent and thinking of the Goobies and now I'm thinking a Goobie bra.... LOL.

 

Another thing I mentioned elsewhere was that I wish they had really cut down on the unsub time. I almost changed the station when they showed the unsub. I hate when they show them early. And we could have done without the cradling of the fake leg. It actually took away from the creepy factor by showing it. They could have shown the shadows or had the leg still wrapped up and maybe just a toe or hint of something poking out. Because it just looked so fake, it detracted from the effect. Less is more.

Zannej,I was actually trying to decide last night which I found creepier, the guy who cut the limbs off the victims or the guy who got off on the amputated limbs. :)

[dr pepper]

I have, over the years, become inured to a certain amount of gore on the other side of my screen.

 

But this season premiere was so-- it's not even in the same area code as my comfort zone.I don't think i made it halfway before i had to turn it off.

 

So, alas, i must say goodbye to my two very favorite nerds on tv.

 

Damn you, dismember happy writers!

Edited October 3, 2014 by dr pepper

[normasm]

Well, just think, SSAH, if you were the one formerly attached to the limbs, your concern would be with the cutting guy. By the time your leg got to the rubbing guy, you'd be long gone somewhere over the rainbow!!! LOL

[Wilowy]

Okay so I've watched it twice now... and I'm still unclear what they charged Cowles with. Purchasing dead body parts? Is there a doctor Frankenstein law? Is that even a thing? Or was he just going to get a bunch of press and shamed, his family in pieces (so to speak)? 

 

He deserves to go to prison, I guess for trafficking in human remains (also just plain being a freak of nature)? But did anyone catch the actual charge?

 

SO many question marks in this post. :P

[normasm]

If it's illegal to sell something, it's also illegal to buy that thing. I didn't catch if they named a charge, but it probably would be trafficking contraband, which is not just providing but consuming the "product."

 

Yuuuuuuuggggg. Makes my skin crawl thinking about the real thing, although, I'm sorry, their wax molds of legs didn't look realistic at all. And I don't care how much desiccant they used, the damn things would still smell…. ya know?

[Wilowy]

Ewww. Maybe that was part of their 'charm'. He did smell it. DAS SO NASTY!

[Danielg342]

Actually, I'm kind of glad the torsos weren't lifelike...with the amount of gore we've been getting the past few years, it's good they've dialed it down a notch.

On another front, Stephen Parkett needs a better cleave gag...the girdle didn't work at all.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Danielg342

[DrLar]

Bad hair but big breasts and nice personality I could forgive the worst-than-Reid hairdo for now

I didn't understand at the beginning when she was busting that pedo how she got him to convince him, I guess he also liked grown women and not just underage.

 

A bit of curiosity number wise Season 10 episode 1 aired on 10/1 and it's named "10" in roman numerals

Edited October 3, 2014 by DrLar

[Wilowy]

Kate pretended to be into kids, too ("I like pretty things, it makes sense that I like girls."). That's how she got him to trust her. 

 

Re: the numbers, Erica said they didn't even plan it that way originally. Something about how "Stalker" worked out and because of another show they pushed it back, then it all came together. 

[roughing it]

JLH had a baby earlier this year, so is still carrying weight and nursing.  Nothing wrong with that.  I think she looks great and I thought she fit in well.

[diorella78]

Color me surprised, I didn't hate JLH---or 'Kate Callahan'--as much as I assumed. I had seen JLH recently in publicity photos so I knew she was fuller from the baby but I think that works. One of my problems with her being cast was her perpetual cutsey-babydoll-elfin look and with the extra weight and terrible hair....somehow she's more believable, to me? lol. Acting was ok, too....we'll see.

 

The episode for me was just ok. I hadn't kept up with this thread so wasn't sure if they'd be, yet again, a 'season long' unsub and it looks like here we go again....... 

 

I thought 'Kate' blended in well, even if she was featured heavily, but I assumed as such with introducing JLH to the show. Hopefully things will balance as the season progresses, and hopeful to see more Reid. 

Edited October 3, 2014 by diorella78

[needschocolate]

Are we sure it is a season-long unsub?  I thought they were just making commentary on how perverse the internet can be - that it didn't just stop with ne guy killing someone and selling the parts, that there are a lot of steps and people involved (kidnappers to killers to butchers to fetishers), and they weren't necessarily going to eventually try to track down the kidnappers.  There wasn't really an MO for the kidnappers or killers and there seemed to be more than one of them. I think it would be difficult to make a season-long story arc out of this. 

 

But I don't like season-long story arcs, so it could be wishful thinking on my part. 

[missmycat]

Are we sure it is a season-long unsub?  I thought they were just making commentary on how perverse the internet can be - that it didn't just stop with ne guy killing someone and selling the parts, that there are a lot of steps and people involved (kidnappers to killers to butchers to fetishers), and they weren't necessarily going to eventually try to track down the kidnappers.  There wasn't really an MO for the kidnappers or killers and there seemed to be more than one of them. I think it would be difficult to make a season-long story arc out of this. 

 

But I don't like season-long story arcs, so it could be wishful thinking on my part. 

I am afraid it's just wishful thinking on your part because Erica Messer herself said there'd be one.I'd like to think that they learned from their mistakes with The Replicator,but that might be too much to hope for

[Danielg342]

Are we sure it is a season-long unsub?...There wasn't really an MO for the kidnappers or killers and there seemed to be more than one of them. I think it would be difficult to make a season-long story arc out of this. 

 

I disagree. I think we could get a compelling storyline out of this...CM just has to execute (and that's a pretty big "if"). A team of UnSubs going around America kidnapping women? There's so many plotlines you can use for it- are they "middlemen", having a "warehouse" of women for other people to buy in order to sell to others? Are they joining a nationwide (or a global) prostitution ring? Are they going to be used as "mail order brides" shipped off to far away countries? Is someone buying the women (and men, in this case) to reverse the cross-Atlantic slave trade of the 16th-18th centuries? Is the human trafficking ring going to be part of some sick dating website, where men get to "bid" on potential girlfriends? So many different storylines and we're just scratching the surface, really.

 

More importantly, there's lots of potential where this could progress. Certainly someone is going to notice all these kidnappings, and they're going to put the pressure on the BAU to put a stop to this. There'd be a media circus, and Senator Cramer (from "It Takes A Village") could get involved demanding some answers. Perhaps the BAU would need help along the way, and they'd require it from the CIA, who might still be upset that Jason Gideon "meddled" with them way back when.

 

I mean, there's just so many possibilities that I'd be pumped up about it...if it were any other show; and that's the caveat. Since I don't trust CM to properly flesh out the story, the potential's there for them to drop the ball, like they normally do, so we do agree that neither of us are getting our hopes up.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder, let's keep the conversation on the episode here. There are places to talk about the season, as well as other topics. Thanks for your help!

[zannej]

Cobalt, I meant Goobie as in the Goobie awards or Goobies that Gubler came up with on CM. So it was Gube related. 

 

I forgot to mention some things I liked about this episode:

I actually liked the unsub who was so shy and how he was nice to the girl when she was nice to him and how lonely he seemed. The actor did a very good job with that. I wish they'd had more exposition about why he was like that. I found him more interesting than the dude who cradled severed legs. The latter actor was on the show "Charmed" for awhile. IIRC, Erica Messer used to work on that show.

 

I can't think of much else. The episode was a blur and I'll have to rewatch it. At least I don't have the reaction of never wanting to watch it again like quite a few episodes from the past few seasons.

[dusang]

I was totally weirded out by the Meg Callahan reveal -somehow it seemed that, as primary caregiver for w tween/teen, Kate just left for two days with no warning. She didn't even seem to have called. I assume it will be revealed that there was/is another adult present but it just seemed really weird to me.

[missmycat]

I was totally weirded out by the Meg Callahan reveal -somehow it seemed that, as primary caregiver for w tween/teen, Kate just left for two days with no warning. She didn't even seem to have called. I assume it will be revealed that there was/is another adult present but it just seemed really weird to me.

Well Kate is married even though we didn't see her husband. It's possible he was in another part of the house at the time like maybe his mancave watching a game and totally oblivious to the fact that his wife had returned.

Edited October 6, 2014 by missmycat

[zannej]

Willowy, good point about not knowing what they charged the guy with. IIRC, it is illegal to have human body parts (except teeth) unless you have a special license or some sort of permit to own it. You can't even have your own appendix in a jar (I was bummed when I found out I couldn't keep mine in a jar) unless you have permission from the government. So just having human body parts (not just buying and selling) is a crime.

 

I actually don't mind Kate's hair although I know it seems to bug other people. I kind of like it in a way.

 

Erica said in one of her interviews that the season long unsub would come in to play at the end of this episode, so the human trafficking thing seems to be their story arc for the season.

 

Anyway, I do wish they had gone back to the whole thing of actually needing a warrant or enough evidence to go after people. They completely dropped that in this episode. In fact, if someone just happens to fit their profile they can now just raid the person's house or grab them-- in some ways, I'd like to see them get it wrong and have to face the consequences. But that is a discussion for another thread.

[dusang]

Well Kate is married even though we didn't see her husband. It's possible he was in another part of the house at the time like maybe his mancave watching a game and totally oblivious to the fact that his wife had returned.

 

And that the tween/teen he was solely responsible for had fallen asleep on the couch after studying all night?  (I took it that she was arriving home at nearly 7am.)  Point taken but it was still an awkward scene.

Edited October 6, 2014 by dusang

[Wilowy]

I'm thinking they'll establish her spousal connection next ep. They probably wanted to show us the obvious warm relationship with her niece, and her guilt about being away, without the added padding of the husband meet & greet. 

 

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with a teen falling asleep on the sofa. I've seen it happen on occasion. :)

[webruce]

A strange start. Limbs removed from the bodies. Then we find fatherFrank Cowles is buying legs to rub and get excited over?? He does it with son, Corey home. And ofcourse wife Sandy had no idea?

I like Kate Callahan and yes she needs training. But she starts off well. I do miss Blake though, and am sad she left. She fit in well, and wasn't over the top.

We also weren't over run by JJ and Morgan like last season. I love them both, but the team has to be even. Also like that JJ went with Hotch to the station house. Like her liason days. She has the training, use it.

Steven Parkett The unsub seem to want female contact. When Angie Stanton was nice to him he responded. I worried when she tried to escape he would kill her, but she was lucky. I also thought she had taken off to quick.

People are selling others online for whatever reason. Could be a season long problem. Kate is good to wonder about it.

[RealityGal]

I wasn't very impressed with this episode. The opening was ok. I don't mind Kate. She seems nice enough and the bit with Garcia and the internet videos was amusing. Good use of the team with the exception of Reid. 

I know its her first episode, but I felt that Kate was a little too prominent and dominating in the profiling for someone who was so new to the team. I wish it had been a little toned down. 

 

Yes, it was sort of strange.  It looked like prior to her interview she was an undercover agent for guys peddling kiddie porn.  That is an awful crime, but my feeling is that its different than profiling serial killers.  I would think finding kiddie porn holders/suppliers would be less about profiling and more about information collection, pushing informants, and that sort of thing.  But it was like suddenly she went from that job, that I'm guessing doesn't involve a lot of profiling, to knowing everything about profiling, and being on the same level as Rossi, Hotch, Morgan and JJ.  But if this is a new job for her, she has been there for what, less than a week?

 

Alth found the moment with Garcia to be a little much.  You just got a job that you really, really wanted, I think normal human response is to hold back a little.  Get a feel for the lay of the land.  Garcia can get away with talking about needing kitten pictures because she has been on the job for like a decade, but you just joined the team and you want to have this conversation about kitten videos when everyone is conferencing?  That just seems odd.  I think most people wait a while in a new work environment before showing their eccentricities.

 

Her hair was pretty bad. I guess it might be because she usually has rockin' hair and she didn't want Kate to be about that. I also like that she's slightly above-weight for the television norm. Go, curvy girls!

 

Okay, I thought it might just be me who noticed that.  I do think thats cool, although I do hope they put her in some better clothes.  Putting her in that sad sack outfit was unfortunate.

[RealityGal]

These were some of my responses as I watched the episode.

 

6. Does the team not secure warrants for these searches or is that just supposed to be implied? I'm thinking of the second suspect's apartment, since they didn't exactly have probable cause to enter based on what little we saw about him. I honestly don't know with this writing crew, but the show used to show the legal steps the team had to follow, and we haven't seen much of that in a few years.

 

there is an exception for exigent circumstances, so if you have reason to believe that there is an emergency going on inside and evidence is about to be destroyed, or someone is about to be hurt you may not have to get a warrant.  and honestly, all you really need is probable cause, the biggest reason to get a warrant is I believe it operates preemptively as evidence of probable cause.  And then the penalty for a search without a warrant would be, at best, throwing out the evidence, but it can be reintroduced if you can prove that you would have found it anyways in the course of your investigation.  Or at least thats how I remember it from Constitutional Criminal Procedure.

Edited October 12, 2014 by RealityGal

[zannej]

I didn't have a problem with Kate talking about the videos with Garcia when she was still new to the team. Some people are just like that and don't worry about showing their eccentricities too early-- or some of them get excited because its a topic to which they can relate.

[ForeverAlone]

As this episode was written, there were no exigent circumstances and there was no probable cause for a warrant. The perceived unsub had one minor characteristic that fit the profile and no competent judge would have signed off on a warrant for what little we saw on screen.

The show used to show the legal requirements for searches and show the potential consequences of warrantless searches. A great example of that debate was season one "What Fresh Hell." The team was pretty certain they knew who was holding Billie, but there wasn't enough evidence to get a search warrant. And after Gideon recklessly forced his way in the house and they didn't initially find Billie to justify it as exigent circumstances, the concern is that they would have to exclude all the evidence found at the house because there were no legal grounds for the search.

But none of those circumstances existed for the team conducting a police raid on the supposed unsub. But in recent years, those legal niceties like search warrants and HIPAA protections have gone out the window and the team just seems to do whatever they want, and I blame the writers who don't ground their actions in legal reality.

[Old Dog]

It's indicative of the show's swing from intellectual profiling to action drama. The grounding in reality suffers as a result and I find that really detracts from my enjoyment of it as I am always shaking my head over things that would never. ever happen in reality.

[normasm]

Old Dog (good to see you here again!), I agree about the "swing from intellectual profiling to action drama" being the main bone of contention for many of us who criticize the show even as we love it.

 

I was watching Uncanny Valley again for the umpteenth time, noticing all the myriad things that make it great writing and a wonderful canon episode for character and team development. All the care taken to make an interesting unsub, not showing her too soon, having good profiling, team interaction, no "baby girl," no jumping all over the place shooting anything that moves. The team all handling everything they should to break the case. Taking the unsub into custody and saving the victims.

 

In "X", Kate was very cavalier about roughing up a suspect in custody, and there was no balance in the team as there had been with Emily's and Rossi's intro/first few episodes. Plus, the running around, and shooting/killing the unsub. How many times has notch done this over the years? I'd like to do a rundown of how many and what season were the Hotch Kills, but i guess that's another thread. = )

[Old Dog]

Thanks Normasm. And in Uncanny Valley the LEO's were very much in evidence at the take-down - I recall Reid taking so much care with Samantha Malcolm with them. I'm  not sure why we seldom see LEO's involved now - so often it seems like it's just the team. And yes, Hotch must have a good few kills now - I immediately want to hoe in and count!

[RealityGal]

As this episode was written, there were no exigent circumstances and there was no probable cause for a warrant. The perceived unsub had one minor characteristic that fit the profile and no competent judge would have signed off on a warrant for what little we saw on screen.

The show used to show the legal requirements for searches and show the potential consequences of warrantless searches. A great example of that debate was season one "What Fresh Hell." The team was pretty certain they knew who was holding Billie, but there wasn't enough evidence to get a search warrant. And after Gideon recklessly forced his way in the house and they didn't initially find Billie to justify it as exigent circumstances, the concern is that they would have to exclude all the evidence found at the house because there were no legal grounds for the search.

But none of those circumstances existed for the team conducting a police raid on the supposed unsub. But in recent years, those legal niceties like search warrants and HIPAA protections have gone out the window and the team just seems to do whatever they want, and I blame the writers who don't ground their actions in legal reality.

 

Probable cause is based on what a reasonable person standard, so given the evidence, would a reasonable person, or a reasonable cop believe that this is the guy?  And that he has evidence in the house that he is likely to destroy?  How many other people in the geographic area have the minor characteristic?  How many other people fit the profile and have the minor characteristic?  The fewer people, the better the support for probable cause. On the case of a serial killer that can strike again within hours or may already be holding another woman, I certainly think you can make a case, especially when the victim/potential victim may only have hours until the killer kills them.  It's actually unlikely that all the evidence would have to be thrown out because you could make a case that you would have found the evidence regardless in the course of your investigation through other means.  Its not a very high bar.  

 

However, I fell asleep before the end of the episode, but I think in almost every episode the team could at least make an argument that they would have found the unsub and whatever relevant evidence there was in the course of their investigation, especially given the team's expertise and Garcia's computer skills.

 

I didn't have a problem with Kate talking about the videos with Garcia when she was still new to the team. Some people are just like that and don't worry about showing their eccentricities too early-- or some of them get excited because its a topic to which they can relate.

 

Meh, didn't seem realistic to me at all.  Seemed too forced, a person who wants to let it all hang out right away doesn't seem like an accurate portrayal of a real person to me.  Most people I've met in the workplace want to hold a little back, because she doesn't know these people.  Garcia may be the kook everyone is just putting up with because she is super talented, but they hate the fact that she is going on about kitten videos.  Thats not the case, but she doesn't know that.  She just got her dream job, would she really want to risk alienating the rest of the team if they weren't into Garcia's personality?  It would make more sense for her to get her feet wet with everyone, get a lay of the land, and then start to insert herself.  It was just too much, too soon, IMO.

Edited October 12, 2014 by RealityGal

[Wilowy]

Speaking as a geek from way back, it's really exciting when someone mentions your stuff and seems to have a similar fondness for and knowledge of it. It can be hard to tamp that down, no matter where you are.

 

I had a lit professor who was really into fic and genre and Whedon and before class we were talking animatedly in the corner, and our facilitator laughingly commented that it was like we were speaking another language. It's very uplifting and exciting and can be difficult to refrain from enthusiastically discussing.

 

I do see how some may think it was too much too soon, but it was an aww moment for me, even though I dislike animal vids for the most part. It did help me to like her.

[RealityGal]

Speaking as a geek from way back, it's really exciting when someone mentions your stuff and seems to have a similar fondness for and knowledge of it. It can be hard to tamp that down, no matter where you are.

 

I had a lit professor who was really into fic and genre and Whedon and before class we were talking animatedly in the corner, and our facilitator laughingly commented that it was like we were speaking another language. It's very uplifting and exciting and can be difficult to refrain from enthusiastically discussing.

 

I do see how some may think it was too much too soon, but it was an aww moment for me, even though I dislike animal vids for the most part. It did help me to like her.

 

I think the difference is that if its two people who just met and have a bond and are enthusiastic over it, that's a little more acceptable to me.  But if you just joined this team, and you want to be successful, most people that I know of are going to want to make sure to get the lay of the land first.  Sure, maybe someone mentions something they have a passion for, but in a group full of people that you pretty much don't know and are going to have to work with I think most people would wait a little.  Especially in a group setting, because they don't know the dynamics of the group, or how they are going to fit in.  I think its why I liked the way Alex was introduced to the team, she wasn't somber per se, but I felt like she opened up a little slower, and for this reason, to me, her interactions with the team didn't feel forced or odd, they felt natural.

 

But, I guess my question is, if the professor had mentioned something about Wheadon in the middle of class, would you have raised your hand and had the same conversation with him in front of the class?  On the first day?  Or might it have been something you would have talked about with him after class or in office hours?

[Wilowy]

I think maybe Kate was following Penelope's lead. Her mentioning kitten vids probably let Kate think it was okay to remark on it, and then they fed off each other's response. If Pen hadn't said anything I doubt Kate would have. 

 

To answer your question it would definitely have depended on the comment and the setting. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Especially in a group setting, because they don't know the dynamics of the group, or how they are going to fit in.  I think its why I liked the way Alex was introduced to the team, she wasn't somber per se, but I felt like she opened up a little slower, and for this reason, to me, her interactions with the team didn't feel forced or odd, they felt natural.

 

And in Alex's case, Garcia actually did slow her roll a little, because she was asking the others if she was nice, only to discover that Alex was right there behind her. I thought it was a nice touch that she approached her at the end of the episode and said, "Can we start over?"

[Knittzu]

I REALLY don't want this to turn into the Jennifer Love Hewitt Show.

 

 

At this point I will happily take the JLH Show over the JJ&Morgan Action Adventure we were served for most of last season -- well, assuming that the JLH Show includes Reid and is about profiling, not the action adventure twins running around in the dark, shooting wildly at stuff, and/or being deployed to the middle east.

[missmycat]

At this point I will happily take the JLH Show over the JJ&Morgan Action Adventure we were served for most of last season -- well, assuming that the JLH Show includes Reid and is about profiling, not the action adventure twins running around in the dark, shooting wildly at stuff, and/or being deployed to the middle east.

And may I just say a big fat AMEN to that.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

At this point I will happily take the JLH Show over the JJ&Morgan Action Adventure we were served for most of last season -- well, assuming that the JLH Show includes Reid and is about profiling, not the action adventure twins running around in the dark, shooting wildly at stuff, and/or being deployed to the middle east.

 

 

And may I just say a big fat AMEN to that.

 

Oh, I dunno, sometimes I wouldn't have minded seeing JJ being deployed to the middle east.

[JMO]

Moving my comment over to the 'Jennifer Jareau' thread.

[normasm]

Personally, I don't want this to be the "anybody" show, I just want it to be Criminal Minds, a team show that occasionally focuses a bit more attention on one character or one team relationship. I honestly wouldn't even want it to be the Reid Show.

[Danielg342]

I was thinking of this episode and a thought came to me- why did the UnSub decide to cut off her arm first? I would think, especially considering it's not his first victim, that he'd cut off a leg first, which would make it harder for the victim to escape. It just seemed like the writer contrived things to make it easier for the intended ending- she escapes- without thinking of the implications. It could have been so easy to fix too- he could have reviewed an E-Mail that said “One arm, ship tomorrow” or something- at least then it wouldn't look so contrived.

[ForeverAlone]

And the victim was way too lucid in my opinion. She had her arm chopped off (a major surgical amputation) without anesthesia. She would have been in serious shock. Even if I give him that he doesn't kill her outright or bleed to death, there was still a high risk of infection in that barn. I just can't see her having the wherewithal to gain his trust, let alone the physical strength to fight back that aggressively to get away. It's like Erica really wanted a "you go girl" moment without thinking what condition the victim would realistically be in in such a situation.

Edited November 2, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[normasm]

Daniel, I think he was trying to make her last longer. If you take the legs, the person dies. 

 

Forever, I agree it was totally bogus that she would even be able to get to her feet. At the very least, her entire blood circulation has been compromised, and her body would react with shock, which closes things down so the body can heal. I agree she probably would have already been infected.

 

Where's our nurse, droogie? You agree with us, don't you?

[Droogie]

Daniel, I think he was trying to make her last longer. If you take the legs, the person dies. 

 

Forever, I agree it was totally bogus that she would even be able to get to her feet. At the very least, her entire blood circulation has been compromised, and her body would react with shock, which closes things down so the body can heal. I agree she probably would have already been infected.

 

Where's our nurse, droogie? You agree with us, don't you?

LOL! Yeah, a lot of that required a massive suspension of disbelief. I don't know that she would have begun to show symptoms of infection yet, but when she gets to the hospital, she is gonna lose that arm up to the shoulder for sure. I'm torn on her being able to get up and run like she did. He tourniqueted her arm before he whacked it off -- and her sympathetic nervous system response may have kicked in and sped the clotting, as well as giving her enough energy to do what she needed to do.

I totally fanwanked that that was what happened. That, and she completely collapsed as soon as she was in the ambulance.