S01.E09: What Goes Up...

[AnimeMania]

Amy, finally allowed to practice medicine again without supervision, struggles to diagnosed her most complicated patient yet: TJ’s dad. Sonya and Jake treat a single mom who’s reluctant to stay in the hospital. Richard tries to contain the truth about Dixon.

Premiere Date: March 11, 2025    FOX    9pm

[basiltherat]

I notice (!) that when patients check into this hospital, no matter who the doctor is, THEY IMMEDIATELY GET WORSE.

[Spartan Girl]

Is Richard telling the truth about what happened to the patient or is he gaslighting Amy?

[DanaK]

I’m not sure how I feel about that single mom patient. She seemed to make too many bad decisions in trying to hide her troubles to  keep her daughter and was pretty obnoxious to the staff because of it

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is Richard telling the truth about what happened to the patient or is he gaslighting Amy?

I vote for gaslighting given what he was telling his wife(?)

[SoMuchTV]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is Richard telling the truth about what happened to the patient or is he gaslighting Amy?

I was going to ask that same question. Have we been shown something I missed or forgot, that would let us know one way or the other, or was it supposed to be a complete mystery?  He sure seemed guilty talking to (his lawyer? Not sure who she was) but I suppose that discussion could be reinterpreted based on new information. 

[borealis]

Mazzy Star "Into Dust"!!! The song during those last few scenes, where they told her they paid her bill, and Jake talked to Michael, etc. I had to really focus on the dialog, I just wanted to sing the song. lol I listened to the album over & over in the mid 90s— hard to believe it's over 30 years old. 

Okay, done fangirling now. 

 

[AnimeMania]

38 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

He sure seemed guilty talking to (his lawyer? Not sure who she was) but I suppose that discussion could be reinterpreted based on new information. 

I am pretty sure Richard is guilty, but his lawyer told him to come up with some other plausible explanation that might make him seem not guilty.

[Broderbits]

50 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is Richard telling the truth about what happened to the patient or is he gaslighting Amy?

I also vote for gaslighting, based on the hospital lawyer(or whoever she was) suggesting that there could be an "alternative" story and then Richard talking to the OR nurse.

I wonder if Dr. Coleman's father is going to eventually have a good outcome from Amy's alternative treatment in the season finale. Even if he doesn't, it would have been wrong not to tell him about his options. I wouldn't have chosen that surgery either.

[SoMuchTV]

8 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I am pretty sure Richard is guilty, but his lawyer told him to come up with some other plausible explanation that might make him seem not guilty.

Yeah, I wouldn’t have taken “come up with some other plausible explanation that might make him seem not guilty” to mean “flat out lie and throw her (falsely) under the bus” but Richard may have interpreted that differently. I suppose we’ll see.  

[possibilities]

He's definitely gasllighting her. 

We saw in a previous episode that befoire her accident, she confronted him. She told him that if he made a mistake, the malpractice insurance would handle it, but if he's covering it up it would not be as easy to get past it, so to please come clean now, because she was ordering an autopsy and the facts would come out. That was one of the early flashbacks they showed us, to establish why he was so against her.

Then they showed him confessing to his wife.

And twice they've shown him talking to his lawyer about it, and he told her he's guilty and she said that his only defense was to come up with another story.

I don't think all of that could be just a show feeding us a misdirect. I think the show is about the fallout from her memory loss, and now that she's doing so well, they are resurrecting this issue to show that she's still vulnerable because of the missing memories. 

I hate the triangle with her ex and Jake, though. And I'm not thrilled with Sonya being so smitten with Jake that she can't breathe. C'mon! She's an adult. Stop playing her like a tween.

I have mixed feelings about the case of TJ's dad. I think that they needed to tell him the alternative theory, and also emphasize the rarity of it. She can say why she thinks it might be so, and the other doctors can make their case for why they believe in their own theories. But I don't believe in withholding info from the patient.

I think it was wrong for TJ to make that decision in the conference,. It was not his place. his father is not mentally incompetent and TJ is not his medical power of attorney or health proxy or guardian. This show has a habit of having people with conflicts of interest making decisions behind the patient's back and I find it to be grossly unethical, but they act like it's the normal way to do things. I hate it!! 

I understand that you don't want to give false hope and you don't need to test everyone for every single obscure and unlikely sceneario. But I think it's wrong when doctors use the "horses, not zebras" line. You don't have to test everyone for every tiny possibility, but when the stakes are that high, I think they ought to give patients fully informed consent.

Of course, in real life, it's insurance companies that deny options, not doctors being territorial, I'm thinking. But doctor tv shows always act like insurnace is not a factor.

I felt for the mom and her kid. I think it's criminal that the child protective services system would rather separate a child from their parent than get them help with an electric bill. That's sick.

 

[l star]

Talk about a day from hell. I don’t know if Amy was right or wrong about TJ’s father, I’m still hoping she was right, but she wasn’t wrong to give him the option. TJ was wrong to try to make the choice for him before they even talked to him. Then he was wrong for accusing her of trying to be a hero. Gina was wrong too for saying she did it for her not the patient. She did exactly what the patient wanted. He made a clear, competent choice just like he was entitled to do. I can give TJ some leeway for being personally invested, but I don’t get why Gina at least couldn’t see that. It felt like they were ganging up on Amy with accusations that didn’t fit her behavior, now or ever.

Jake just screams too much for Amy right now. She was wrong to kiss Michael, but she told Jake like two weeks ago that she was still in love with him. Jake caught their dynamic when she got her coat. I feel for him because I think he really does love her. I think the care he shows her is sweet. She’s just not ready. For something slow and fun? Sure. But not for the level of investment he’s bringing. I thought his big speech about how much he loved her and would change jobs for her was too much last week. This just proved it. Now she needs to figure it out before she screws it up worse.

Michael needs to act like a man with a wife. She has an excuse- she just lost him and their marriage. The kiss was wrong, but it wasn’t a surprise as vulnerable as she was. But he was all over her, hugs and hands on her face. She was okay because he was there. And what did he call her? It sounded like baby or something similar. Man has got to find some decorum. 

I’m not here for Sonya’s crush. I like mess in my shows, and I’m loving the messiness here, but I don’t want her angle. It just feels extra. 

Richard sucks. He hit her exactly where she’s vulnerable, where she can’t fight back. And he did it in a way that would devastate her personally. Not only did he say that she killed someone, he re-contextualized her entire time as chief as her being a screwup when we’ve been told all season her attitude was the problem, never her work. When she’s been led to believe that. He completely knocked the floor out from under her, personally and professionally. Well, he gave the finishing blow. TJ and Gina started it with help from the surgeon saying she was acting like an intern. It was too much from all sides, but I think Richard’s is going to be the lasting blow. Asshole. 

Edited March 12 by l star

[tv echo]

Just posted in the Media thread...

‘Doc’: Scott Wolf Explains Richard’s Major Lie to Amy & Teases Finale Fallout 

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

But I think it's wrong when doctors use the "horses, not zebras" line. You don't have to test everyone for every tiny possibility, but when the stakes are that high, I think they ought to give patients fully informed consent.

I think doctors have to be practical.  The zebras are zebras for a reason, and there often are a lot of horses that need to be eliminated before you start getting to the rare diagnoses. 

[Spartan Girl]

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Just posted in the Media thread...

‘Doc’: Scott Wolf Explains Richard’s Major Lie to Amy & Teases Finale Fallout 

So it was gaslighting. Thanks to everyone for responding to my post, I was only half paying attention on this episode so I thought I might have missed something.

I am really annoyed at Michael. I get that he probably wasn’t over Amy when he remarried, but given the way she treated him like crap and left him, I would question why he was still in love with her. Just because she had a mind reset doesn’t erase those years and a simple apology/acknowledgment of said behavior isn’t a magic wand either. 

Edited March 12 by Spartan Girl

[Hawk]

I hate that Dr. Miller!

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t have taken “come up with some other plausible explanation that might make him seem not guilty” to mean “flat out lie and throw her (falsely) under the bus” but Richard may have interpreted that differently. I suppose we’ll see.  

Well it would be illegal for a lawyer to tell him to outright lie and throw someone under the bus. She had to suggest it in lawyer-speak. But he was very convincing, I almost believed him when I've been seeing him act all shady for 8 episodes, and admit what happened to his wife.

What would actually happen if the truth came out? I know someone died, but isn't medical error (sadly) common? All those doctors that make mistakes don't lose their license.

17 hours ago, l star said:

Talk about a day from hell. I don’t know if Amy was right or wrong about TJ’s father, I’m still hoping she was right, but she wasn’t wrong to give him the option. TJ was wrong to try to make the choice for him before they even talked to him. Then he was wrong for accusing her of trying to be a hero. Gina was wrong too for saying she did it for her not the patient. She did exactly what the patient wanted. He made a clear, competent choice just like he was entitled to do. I can give TJ some leeway for being personally invested, but I don’t get why Gina at least couldn’t see that. It felt like they were ganging up on Amy with accusations that didn’t fit her behavior, now or ever.

Yeah, I don't know why all options weren't presented to the patient from the beginning. If he is told the odds and still chooses something, that is his right. If I was in that position and was asking my doctors about other options, I would want to hear everything.

[possibilities]

It's the cover up that is the thing, I think.

In the flashback from a previous episode, Amy (while she was still in charge, before her accident) told Richard that if he made a mistake, it would be okay, but if he covered it up, that would be worse.

But then he went and covered it up.

I don't know what the actual rules are. Maybe it depends on what the error is, how outrageous vs understandable it is, but he apparently didn't want to face it.

So I don't know if the problem is the mistake alone, or the mistake + cover up, and now he's compounded it by gaslighting Amy. He keeps digging himself deeper and deeper, and compounding one transgression with another one that's even worse.

 

[topanga]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

I felt for the mom and her kid. I think it's criminal that the child protective services system would rather separate a child from their parent than get them help with an electric bill. That's sick.

Social workers at CPS have an obligation to make sure a child is living in a safe environment. And a home without electricity usually isn't safe for a child. They definitely would know resources where the mom could get help with her bills. 

That was very kind of Cute Doctor (Jake?) to pay the electric bill for her. 

 

23 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I notice (!) that when patients check into this hospital, no matter who the doctor is, THEY IMMEDIATELY GET WORSE.

I still don't get how this hospital works. Every doctor seems to treat one patient at a time, and they're on call every night. In the real world, you might stay late if your patient is sick, but then you'd hand them off to the night hospitalist. 

And what is their specialty? At first I thought Internal Medicine because they treat adult patients. But these doctors perform trauma surgery, they do biopsies, they read MRIs better than radiologists, etc. 

 

18 minutes ago, possibilities said:

So I don't know if the problem is the mistake alone, or the mistake + cover up, and now he's compounded it by gaslighting Amy. He keeps digging himself deeper and deeper, and compounding one transgression with another one that's even worse.

Agreed. And if Amy supposedly prescribed the patient Metoprolol and he filled it, his insurance company would have a record of it. 

[l star]

If Amy really prescribed the medicine well before, his wife should know, his insurance would definitely know. There are plenty of holes for Dr. Miller to get caught in. I think he’s just banking on her being so scared and rocked that she lets it go. She’ll be so afraid to get caught that she’ll try to hide and cover like he has. But she’s not built the same way he is, and he should know her well enough to know that. 

If she does let it go, he wins on every front though. His problem is gone and she’s no longer a threat. He’ll have something on her forever. For someone who is jealous and has a massive inferiority complex, that’s huge. Right now, he’s got the job and she’s knocked down, but he’s still got people dropping cracks about her taking his office back. If he can make her believe this, that can never happen. 

I don’t think he’ll lose his job. He might lose his position as chief though. I hope so. He hasn’t been good at the job in addition to being a snake. 

[jabRI]

I was kinda liking this show till this episode.  No way she'd be gaslighted and just crumble like this, then get into it with her remarried ex expecting a baby.. she seemed to weak in this episode, doesnt' track for me.

[tinderbox]

On 3/11/2025 at 9:02 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Is Richard telling the truth about what happened to the patient or is he gaslighting Amy?

I think he’s gaslighting her.

[statsgirl]

On 3/14/2025 at 12:13 AM, jabRI said:

No way she'd be gaslighted and just crumble like this, then get into it with her remarried ex expecting a baby.. she seemed to weak in this episode, doesnt' track for me.

I can kind of see it. Amy is unsure of herself right now, people react to her differently than she thinks they would, she went out on a limb with TJ's father but he is not getting better, and a couple of episode Richard has been  her friend for years and was kind to her, telling her that  and acting like he's trying to save her. She doesn't know who she was before the accident and for all she knows, Richard may be telling her the truth, that he is trying to protect her for a hasty decision she made and failed to document.

When your world is falling apart, you seek comfort. Amy's was rocked at what Richard told her and TJ's father. Michael was known and comforting, and she slipped.

That said, I really hope that this doesn't mean that Michael leaves his wife and gets back together with Amy. His relationship with Amy is not a healthy one at the moment.

[l star]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I can kind of see it. Amy is unsure of herself right now, people react to her differently than she thinks they would, she went out on a limb with TJ's father but he is not getting better, and a couple of episode Richard has been  her friend for years and was kind to her, telling her that  and acting like he's trying to save her. She doesn't know who she was before the accident and for all she knows, Richard may be telling her the truth, that he is trying to protect her for a hasty decision she made and failed to document.

When your world is falling apart, you seek comfort. Amy's was rocked at what Richard told her and TJ's father. Michael was known and comforting, and she slipped.

That said, I really hope that this doesn't mean that Michael leaves his wife and gets back together with Amy. His relationship with Amy is not a healthy one at the moment.

She was just so vulnerable to being lied to, both because of her emotional state from her awful day and her amnesia. He really took advantage of her. 

I think that’s why I hold the kiss against Michael so much. She was falling apart before she even saw him. She may have moved first to kiss him but just barely. He met her and was all in. He put his stuff down to hold her before she ever even started crying. At no point in that scene was there any boundary for him. I’m just hoping responsibility for the kiss doesn’t get put all on her as the instigator. He should have to own half of it. If I was his wife I’d be pissed about basically everything he did there.