Past Seasons Talk: Upstairs Downstairs Revisited

[caligirl50]

Do you know what is never explained?  What is on the stand underneath the bells in the servants hall/servants dining room?  Is it the schedule of the week? All the servants look at it. Does anyone know?

[amensisterfriend]

Now that more time has elapsed, how would you guys rank the seasons from your favorite to least favorite? 

 

Maybe I'm getting sentimental in my old age, but I'm loving S1 a lot more than I used to. I used to be surprisingly 'eh' on it. One major reason is that we get to see Anna smile more then than in pretty much every other season combined, and it's the ONE season during which I don't have to be ashamed of my Anna/Bates love because they're kind of genuinely root-worthy back then :) I also love that s1 Matthew has so much more of an actual personality. S1 overall feels a little wittier, a little more subtle and less...soapy, for lack of a better adjective.  

[ElizaD]

Personal ranking: 1, 3, 5, 4, 2. Season 1 is the best by far. 3 had the core cast, Mary/Matthew, and Sybil's touching final episode. 5 and 4 are roughly equal, but 5 didn't have Green, it was clear that Mary's/Tom's failed suitors were being written out, and I liked the positive vibe of 5 with the Carson/Hughes proposal, Rose's marriage, and Edith getting Marigold. Even though 2 has the original cast, it also has three romantic obstacles whose plots I really don't care about (the awful Vera and Richard, the overly perfect Lavinia), it moved too fast because it had to cover WWI, and overall I felt that it tried to do too much but failed to be as meaningful as the WWI season of the old Upstairs Downstairs, which I couldn't help comparing it to.

[Avaleigh]

I rank them 1, 3, 5, 4, 2. 

 

I didn't think the show did a good job of handling the war at all. Like Eliza, I couldn't help but compare it with what Upstairs, Downstairs did and UpDown was miles better in every way even though Downton had the budget, better sets, costumes, etc. Sybil's nursing storyline sucked in comparison to Georgina's. Sybil got a lesson in how to make tea and bake a cake and suddenly she's this amazing nurse (meanwhile the only person to not recognize what an amazing nurse she is, is freaking Branson of all people--lol). We saw Georgina's journey and how clueless she was before to being a hardworking nurse who was deeply moved by the men she tried to help. 

 

Season three was great and I remember it being so harshly criticized because JF dared to kill off two fan favorites. Apart from season 1 it's the only season where I think every single episode is strong. 

 

Seasons 4 and 5 were mostly fun and enjoyable to me. The main reason I give season 5 a bump over 4 is because of how the story of Rose was handled in season 5. I thought the Jack Ross stuff from season 4 was a silly time waster and it didn't help that he wasn't even a great singer. 

 

Season 1 for me was perfection I only wish it had been longer and that we could have seen Sybil's season. It was always frustrating that we couldn't see her interact with at least one other guy just to have something else to compare to the relationship with Tom. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Andorra]

My ranking is 3,2,1,4,5

 

I loved the emotional torment that season 3 had in store for Tom. It was incredibly sad, but I really loved it.

 

Season 2 is a close second. I think it's the most underrated season. Personally I loved it. So much was happening! It had me on the edge of my seat in nearly every episode. Season 1 was okay. To me it is the most overrated season. I loved some episodes (the famous Pamuk story), Tom arriving at Downton and Sybil's harem pants, Sybil's adventure at the byelection etc, but it also had really slow episodes, that I never rewatch, like the flower show.

 

Season 4 was meh and season 5 was awful. Mary and Tom are my favourite characters. I hated Mary in season 5 and Tom was just decoration, standing around telling everyone that he doesn't belong. And then he left. I was really ready to give up on the show at the end of it. Luckily I know that

Tom is going to be back from early on in the season

so I will watch till the end, but I don't expect anything good to happen after the decline the show took in the last two years.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Andorra

[caligirl50]

Downstairs was definitely more upbeat in Season 1 but I have to say that Season 2 is a favorite of mine.  The sadness of Mary is richly brought to life by the beautiful music.  I really like all the seasons.  I was not a Vera Bates fan nor Sir Richard, Braithwaite or Sara Bunting (who could have used a kick in butt) but I tolerated as they were the characters that lead to another storyline.

I suppose in the later seasons, it got old when the only thing Mary and Edith said to Tom was they were going to miss him when he leaves Downton (these are smart people, they cannot talk about anything else?!).

I wanted to see the children more as they are adorably cast (except the new Marigold, who looks like she is not enjoying herself at all).  

I love this series so much and will watch it over and over like I am now.

[caligirl50]

In re-watching the show for the 10,000th time (yes, it's sad), I notice that all the attention from Robert and Cora and basically everyone in the house is on Sybbie.  Matthew's child (Master George) is given no attention from anyone really. I find that odd considering he is the heir to Grantham fortune and Downton Abbey....

[ZoloftBlob]

Yeah, I've always been surprised that Robert has utterly no interest in his heir, and that Isobel has more interest in dating than in the only grandchild she'll ever get.

[Eolivet]

I don't think aristocratic men showed much interest in their children, let alone their grandchildren. Remember Robert in season 1 telling Mary "I love you -- hard as it is for an Englishman to say those words." And Violet and Isobel's convo about "Robert and Rosamund starched and ironed an hour for tea." "Yes, but it was an hour every day." Which is exactly how Mary parents George.

 

Plus, George is four (?), not 14. It's not like Robert could be showing him the cottages or explaining to him about farming or anything useful. Heck, Cora doesn't seem to interact with her grandchildren. And if Mary doesn't see George for more than an hour every day, there's no reason Robert, Cora or Isobel would.

 

It just seems like family relationships were very different, with grandparents more ceremonial than anything else. Not exactly like his grandparents could take him to the park or the beach or to get ice cream. I just put it down to The Way Things Were.

[ZoloftBlob]

Except that Robert in contrast is quite devoted to Sybbie. And again, Isobel has absolutely no living family but George and hasn't been in a scene with him since early season four. (She doesn't even get the proscribed hour before tea time). Its odd.

 

I take no exception that Mary would parent George the way she was parented, but Robert takes much more interest in Sybbie to where he actually suggested Sybbie be left at Downton rather than go to America with her father... and I doubt Isobel raised her son in the fashion that George is being raised. For all the concern Robert had about having an heir, it seems odd he takes so little interest in the child he will be handing all of his wealth and title to.

Edited August 2, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[HoodlumSheep]

A bit late (and long time no see), but here's my ranking of the seasons.

2,1, 3 or 5, 4.

I loved season 2. It did get a bit more soap opera-y and predictable near the end, but I really enjoyed it (except for Matthew's whineyness--some was understandable, but I think he had dialed it up to 11 which was a bit too much). The actors did great work and I think I enjoyed the side characters best this season too (Carlisle and Vera who were awesomely evil, and sweet, sweet Lavinia). Cora was kind of still relevant, William :'(, etc. etc.

Season 1 was solid. I think one of the reasons so many people like the first season (and why some people may feel it's overrated) is because they didn't know what to expect going into it. everything was kind of new and fresh in a certain sense--you couldn't quite predict what was going to happen, which is what made it good.

I think it's a toss up between 3 an 5 next for me. Season three had the surprising deaths, but the rest of it was just...bland. And this was where that awful downstairs love square/pentagon? started up with Daisy,Ivy, Jimmy, Alfred, and Thomas I guess.

Season 5 seemed decently...stable-ish despite it's problems. Rose was settled in, Mary's men were sent away. there's still the stupid mr. green/bates drama, and that annoying teacher lady, but the upside was Mosely and baxter being awesome and adorable.

Season 4...blah. The suitors, Bates drama STILL, that ghastly downstairs love square/whatever that actually almost made me quit. Blah!!!!

[caligirl50]

Can we also talk about how freely people tell each other "I love you" on the show?  I thought the Brits were/are so uptight but all this group does is pronounce their love for each other (Anna to Mr. Bates - he was still married, Daisy to Alfred, Sara Bunting to Branson, Gillingham to Mary, Lord Merton to Isabel, Jack Ross/Rose, Gregson to Edith, even Violet to Mary).  Everyone loves each other and fast!  If I were Daisy, I would have never told Alfred I loved him.  What would be the point?

 

If Simon Bricker had professed his love to Cora, I would have thrown my hands up.  Give me some Downton water!  Whomever drinks it becomes irresistible!

[caligirl50]

Also, and this was never addressed (except when Simon Bricker gave Carson a tip) but when guests stayed in these great houses, they would tip the staff.  If anyone saw Gosford Park, Maggie Smith has a scene sorting out what to to tip and to who....

[caligirl50]

Lastly, can we talk about the faces Alan Leech has made throughout the years? I have taken screen shots of some of his best faces....I will figure out how to post. It makes me laugh out loud.

[lottiedottie]

I have spent the last few weeks binge watching my way through seasons 2-5. It's been so long since I watched season 2 that I was happily shocked to see Sybil again. I miss that character. Today I started back with season 1. Good times!  Even when this show is bad, it's still good. The clothing and accents are enough for me. It will be interesting to see how this next season wraps everything up.

[caligirl50]

The music is also very beautiful.

[TnTexas]

Just finished binge watching seasons 1-5 on Amazon Prime, and I've just got to say - the Who Killed Green? storyline has to the dumbest storyline I've ever seen. (OK. I'm sure I've seen others that have been just as dumb over the years, but I just finished watching this one so it's fresh on my mind. LOL)

So let me see if I've got this straight. An unimportant man falls in front of a bus and dies. A year later, we find out that someone overheard a chance remark the man made just before he died and a decides to report it. Okaaaaay.

The police, who are apparently bored and tired of sitting around with nothing to do-- (Who knew a large city had so little crime to deal with in those days?)-- decide the comment (What are you doing here?) is probably an indication that the man was actually murdered. He wasn't accidentally bumped off the curb at the wrong time. He didn't accidentally stumble off the curb at the wrong time. Nope. Instead, he saw someone he recognized and asked them why they were there. Therefore, obviously, he must have been deliberately pushed in front of the bus. Really? (Nevermind how the person knows the comment came from the man who died. As far as I can remember, that was never explained. I was under the impression there was a crowd of people around when the accident/murder happened, so it seems to me the question could have come from any number of people.)

 

Having  decided they probably have a murder on their hands, the police proceed to embark on an amazingly long and apparently extremely thorough investigation into the situation. (I mean, if the King himself had been murdered, the investigation couldn't have taken more time and been examined more closely; could it?) Suddenly people  - even though it's been somewhere between a year and two years- are remembering the strangers they saw around them on the street that day, strangers they talked to, strangers who came into their shops, etc. I served jury duty a couple of weeks ago; and even though I talked to some of the people who were there with me, I wouldn't recognize any of them today -- just two weeks later. Why? Because they were all strangers to me, and (as far as I know) I haven't seen any of them since. So can I have some of the memory pills those people must be taking? Please? I'd love to be able to remember things like they do.

All of this over the death of a (former) household servant? (Had he already been fired when he died?) I mean, it's not like the man's (former) employer was pushing for an investigation into his death. He barely seemed to register it had occurred. The whole situation is just so unbelievable - even for a TV show. I rolled my eyes so much I was sure my eyeballs were going to get stuck. In fact, I'm a bit surprised I can see anything other than the inside of my skull right now. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Not me! I am still haunted by the subtle dark beauty of the Who Killed Greene plot!

 

Sometimes at night, I dream about it.

 

Julian Fellowes touched me....

 

(snerk)

[TheGreenKnight]

If I were to rank the first 5 seasons, I'd put them as: 1 (the best), 5, 3, 2, 4 (the worst).

 

After seeing season 4, I really thought I was over the show, since I found the whole thing difficult to maintain my attention outside the first episode. But watching it again after I'd seen season 5 (which I loved), I saw it in a slightly better light for laying the groundwork for 5. It's still my least favorite season easily though, maybe the only season where the bad outweighed the good for me. Part of it was that Mary and Tom were both languishing and I never liked either of those characters to begin with which made it twice as uninteresting to watch. Robert also became extremely unlikable when he tried to push Mary out, I didn't care for Gregson or where that plot took Edith, and the Baxter storyline didn't even reach its conclusion in the CS after being dragged on and on. Not to mention the addition of Rose who was a complete dud (although she grew on me slightly in 5; I liked Tom in 5, too, for the first time). I think my interest flatlined in the Christmas Special thanks to that sleep-inducing trip to the beach, and re-watching the series I still find it hard not to skip the rape episode. I didn't mind Edna though, because we got the awesome scenes of first Mrs. Hughes and then Thomas telling her off. I believe the only reason I gave 5 a chance is because buying the new season was routine for me.

Edited October 29, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[caligirl50]

Yes, I thought about the Green thing for a long time.

In addition to what was posted above, the Scotland Yard police detective said that he had attacked numerous women.  Just because the other victims hadn't admitted to the police right away (it was an interesting the phrasing he used to get them to admit they were attacked) doesn't mean that one of them hadn't confided to someone else or more than one person.  One wonders how much police work went into those attacks. So they focus on the last attack and un-justly make an arrest to give justice to a man WHO WAS A SERIAL RAPIST in addition to a servant (who, from what I have read, were not highly regarded by anyone in those days).

 

I agree.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Dejana]

I'm binge watching the early seasons for the first time. I started regularly viewing midway through S4, though I'd heard of the show and some things about it seeped into the broader pop culture, like "What is a weekend?" and that SNL sketch where Downton was advertised as "Fancy Entourage". And, of course, I knew that Matthew's death had "ruined Christmas" according to the British papers. I hadn't really seen Dan Stevens in anything before and just remember seeing pictures of him after he'd lost weight and was showing up on red carpets in black leather jackets, trying to convince everyone that he could play gritty roles. too. Now, after really seeing Matthew in action, I understand the attitude from Fellowes about the character and actor, years later. He probably had it planned out for Matthew and Mary to rule over Downton as Lord and Lady Grantham before it was all over. Since he's not most imaginative writer (seriously, how many times can some distant relation inherit after all the other heirs die first, and everything with the Bateses), he probably didn't take it well, being forced to change course so radically.

 

O'Brien and Thomas, what nasty pieces of work!

 

Carson being the biggest snob of all makes me laugh. It'll be okay if Sybil learns to make a cake, really!

 

Having first seen Tom as the estate manager, Branson the revolutionary (excuse me, socialist) makes me roll my eyes very hard.

 

Wouldn't Strallan have been too old to serve on the front in World War I? Robert was and they're said to be about the same age.

 

All that fuss about Mary's bob in S5, when Sybil seems to have had one years earlier. Of course, Sybil was the true rebel and everyone was probably still too scandalized by her running off with Tom to notice her hair.

[Roseanna]

I found very funny that the ticket that was unused could prove that Bates didn't visit London. He could have bought two tickets!

[caligirl50]

I'm in the states and PBS here is re-airing Season 5.  After watching the dvds/itunes for basically all of 2015, what a surprise I got when watching on PBS.  The dvds/itunes are edited.  When buying, It states that you are getting the UK version. Two or three lines from a scene were included from almost every scene. What a nice surprise.

[Andorra]

I'm in the states and PBS here is re-airing Season 5.  After watching the dvds/itunes for basically all of 2015, what a surprise I got when watching on PBS.  The dvds/itunes are edited.  When buying, It states that you are getting the UK version. Two or three lines from a scene were included from almost every scene. What a nice surprise.

 

Yes, in season 3-5 (and probably in 6 , too) PBS added scenes and lines to fit their timeslot. In season 1 and 2 it was the other way round and the PBS version was shorter. The DVDs available are sadly only the UK versions though. The additional scenes and lines are only available through fans who recorded it when it aired on PBS. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by Andorra

[caligirl50]

And who has that kind of space on their dvr?  I certainly don't. :0]

Edited December 23, 2015 by caligirl50

[amensisterfriend]

So now that the series is over, how would you guys rank the seasons from your favorite to least favorite? My admittedly weird order:

 

S2

S1

S3

S6 (though I'm tempted to rank it above S3...)

S4

S5 

 

Favorite episodes: Every Christmas special ever, the series finale (yes, I'm a sentimental sap!), and a whole bunch of others that all sort of run together for me already but which I know will always have a place in my TV-obsessed heart! 

 

Favorite characters in no particular order: Edith (I know...stop laughing at me!), Elsie Hughes, Anna, Bates (though I fully acknowledge that Anna/Bates storylines tended to be a disaster), S1-S3 Mary, S1-S2 Matthew, Violet, Molesly, Baxter, Lavinia, Bertie, Anthony Strallan, and a few more I'm blanking out on. Honorable mentions to Robert and Carson---while I don't LIKE them, exactly, I do think they're the characters who strike me as being very authentic representations of that era, and I can't imagine the show without them.

 

I would love to hear others' favorite seasons, episodes, characters (and least favorites!) as well :)   

Edited December 27, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[AZChristian]

Thank you for admitting to liking Edith and Bates.

 

As the least-favored child in my family, I was always pulling for Edith to succeed.  I love Bates because . . . well . . . Brendan Coyle!

 

I didn't like the season that was focused on WW1.  I kept wondering how Matthew got weekends off from the trenches to dress in white tie for dinners at Downton.  I wasn't all that fond of his character, either.  

 

I loved Violet, Anna, Mrs. Hughes, and Anthony Strallan.  Everyone else was okay.

 

Least favorites:  Thomas, Denker, Sarah Bunting, Tony Gillingham.

[amensisterfriend]

As the least-favored child in my family, I was always pulling for Edith to succeed.  I love Bates because . . . well . . . Brendan Coyle!

I loved Violet, Anna, Mrs. Hughes, and Anthony Strallan.  Everyone else was okay.

 

Ha--we must be among the only DA fans on the planet who would name Bates, Edith and Strallan among our very favorite characters. I once even wrote something based on Strallan and Edith. It was too ghastly to even think of showing to anyone else, but THAT'S how much I adored them...and, let's face it, still kind of do! Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone :) What were your thoughts on Edith's other suitors/significant others, by the way? 

[AZChristian]

It seemed like any of the guys who were fond of Edith were really fond of HER, not her position.  She was a sharp, intelligent woman with the ability and desire to try new things (driving, writing, etc.).  I liked Gregson (after accepting that he is really WAS his Power of Attorney form he got her to sign), liked Sir Anthony.  I even was hoping that the wounded soldier really WAS Cousin Patrick, and that he really was in love with her.

 

And I will believe to my dying day that she was Rosamund's illegitimate daughter.  LOL.

[Eolivet]

Bringing this over from Unpopular Opinions, as it deals with the carousel of Mary suitors from seasons 4 and 5:

 

Maybe it was so simple that during their tryst Mary realized that Gillingham was a bore as a long-time company? But we were actually never told the reason.

 

Gillingham was this weird mix of just edgy enough to be game for "sex weekend," but then noble enough to say "And now that we've done it, we'll obviously get engaged!" In that way, Mary was more forward-thinking to Gillingham's more traditional (but not that traditional) values -- realizing they were a bad match and then trying to end it. What was strange to me is how Gillingham went from anger at her when she tried to leave him to ultimately pity ("Well, I didn't want to embarrass you by dumping you after sex weekend") later in season 5.

 

I mean, for all the "Blake should've been a contender!" talk, there was never, ever one iota of indication that Mary really wanted him that way. Witty banter and pig wrestling isn't sexual chemistry. My new theory on this was that after Fellowes dialed back on the Gillingham/Mary "endgame" that he'd planned for the end of season 4, he rewrote it to be a "battle," with the idea that by that time, the viewers would've picked their favorite and he'd go with that guy in season 5. But when the viewers hated both of them, Fellowes went to great pains to write out the suitor he had originally chosen, and make the other one irrelevant.

 

That storyline alone seemed a very "typical male" reaction: he offered the audience something they didn't like, and once he realized they didn't like anything he was offering, said very loudly "Well, it was never going to be Gillingham anyway, so I fooled you all. Look how clever I am!" This was all of season 5, basically.

[Andorra]

Now that season 6 is over, my ranking is:

 

2,3,1,4,6 and 5. 

 

In many parts I liked 6 much better than 4, but the ending two episodes were so disappointing that it destroyed my former enjoyment of the series. 

 

Favourite characters: Tom, Mary, Mrs Hughes, Sybil, Matthew and Isobel.

 

Most disappointing endings: Tom (no ending at all), Mary (married to horrible Talbot), Mrs Hughes (married to even more horrible Carson), Sybil (dead) and Matthew (dead). 

 

So since only Isobel got a nice ending, you probably can see why I'm glad the show is over. 

[amensisterfriend]

Andorra, we don't agree on much, so the fact that we both rank S2 first and S5 last makes me incredibly happy! I love how DA fans can always find commonality---beyond the super obvious, that is, such as disliking Bunting :) 

 

Even the seasons I didn't love had some great moments---S4, for example, was meh for me overall, but it had some surprisingly great moments for Robert and Cora (and I find their relationship very relatable and interesting), and it gives us Baxter, who I really like. 

[Tetraneutron]

Personally, I think after Matthew died, the endgame was supposed to be Blake. Gillingham was always supposed to be a speed bump on the way to Happily Ever After, because JF is nothing if not traditional and traditional romantic leads don't suggest test drives.

That's why Blake got the humanizing scenes, the scenes where Mary lets her hair down and is more emotionally open. I think the plan was they would realize they were in love while Mary was engaged to the more suitable man. That's also why Blake was played by the more famous actor. But then they were both so dull JF scrapped everything and started over.

[Eolivet]

I don't know -- if that were the case, Ian Glen is a more famous actor than Dan Stevens, but nobody thought Carlisle was supposed to be the endgame.

 

Fellowes himself has said Mary was supposed to marry Gillingham at the end of season 4 -- why he would lie about that (or why that would make him look better), I don't know. He said his plan was to bring on a new suitor -- dashing, handsome, dark, like Mary -- and marry Mary off very quickly. In that sense, I think Blake was the spoiler -- "nice Carlisle," if you will. Blake would be there when Gillingham was engaged, just as Carlisle was there when Matthew was. But he was the new money option destined to lose out to the aristocracy, as Carlisle ultimately lost out to Matthew the heir. Only when Fellowes thought there might be a competition did Blake "suddenly" have aristocratic ties.

 

I also completely disagree that Mary had her more "humanizing" moments with Blake -- she never confided in him or showed vulnerability (beyond getting herself dirty and making eggs). She had those quiet scenes with Gillingham ("there will be a new life for me again" in the season 4 Christmas Special or how she confessed how she still had feelings for Matthew or how she wiped away tears when she read he was engaged. I never saw Mary become that open with Blake). Also, since Fellowes was still in the "middle finger to Dan Stevens" mode, I believe the story was supposed to triumphantly end with Gillingham leaving his fiancee who he didn't love (something Matthew never did) and openly choosing Mary.

 

And if Blake was the planned endgame, why shove him off to the side in season 5? I mean, he was completely and totally irrelevant -- he even got a kissing scene with Mary where she had absolutely no reaction. To me, season 5 is Fellowes' inability to let go of his plan until he is good and ready. Since his plan was Gillingham, he was now going to show the audience that wasn't really his plan after all.

 

I suppose I believe you can make the planned endgame into a villain (see: Frozen), but not so much the planned endgame into the gay best friend.

[Roseanna]

Eolivet, why on earth JF wanted to marry Mary off quickly? If you are lost the love of your life whom you have longed for years, is it really likely that you find a new love quickly?

Regarding the show, it was a huge mistake to make "Mary must remarry, who will be her new husband" the main theme for three seasons.

[Eolivet]

I don't know, Roseanna, but both he and Neame admitted that's what he wanted to do. Popular guesses are that he wanted to prove the show was just fine without Matthew, and that he'd found someone who was even better than Matthew. But the viewers doth protested.

 

Ranking seasons is hard, but I think mine are: 1, 2, 6, 4, 3, 5.

 

Both season 3 and 5 have terrible (IMO) Mary and Bates/Anna stories, but the M/M rollercoaster of inconsistency (a strained marriage, reproductive surgery and death anvils, oh my!) had its moments, and at least Bates. In. Prison. gave Coyle and Froggatt a chance for good drama -- plus the series' arguably most emotional episode in 3x05. Season 5 featured Mary's carousel of suitors, Mr!Green's!Terrible!Murder!Investigation, in addition to Cora might have an affair, oh noes -- a triple whammy of awful that all actors involved looked like they wanted to crawl into a hole while filming.

[Andorra]

For me the only good relationship Fellows wrote after Matthew and Sybil died, was Tom and Mary. There was real depth and warmth between them. All other relationships paled in comparison to this one and that is bad if there're lots of romances and the supposed platonic friendship is the one that a lot of people would have been ready to "ship". 

[amensisterfriend]

Ranking seasons is hard, but I think mine are: 1, 2, 6, 4, 3, 5.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in liking S6 to a surprising degree! 

 

 

 

All other relationships paled in comparison to this one and that is bad if there're lots of romances and the supposed platonic friendship is the one that a lot of people would have been ready to "ship".

 

 

I'm not sure that "a lot" of fans would have been psyched about Tom/Mary, though obviously that's impossible to ascertain. I just know that the majority of people I know were very turned off by the idea. I don't know that I think "all other relationships" paled by comparison to that one at all and disagree strongly with the idea that Mary/Tom had any romantic chemistry or potential as a "ship" whatsoever. In fact, one of the reasons I enjoyed their dynamic was because they really did feel like quasi-siblings to me, bonded in large part due to an often unspoken but still deep mutual sadness over losing Sybil. Not 'going there' with Tom/Mary was actually one of the best decisions JF made IMO, though I know some disagree! 

 

Does anyone know why Tom gained a million pounds over the course of the series, by the way? Was it a medical issue? I'm usually oblivious when it comes to those things, but even I was taken aback by how chunky he was by the end. I like to think it was symbolic of how Tom began the series full of this lean, hungry energy and desire for change and then just settled into life as the contentedly domesticated pet of the aristocracy after all! 

Edited December 28, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Andorra]

I actually think Allen might have gained weight because of private issues. He's looking much better now that the show is over and I bet he'll be back to his own lean self in a few months. 

[jaytee1812]

I was watching the first couple of episodes today, and interesting how they do give the feeling of the house have a much bigger staff in 1912 than it does in later seasons. There are much more extras as maids and footman in the background.

[Artymouse]

I've been rewatching Season 1, and it's interesting to see the way the characters have changed from then to now. Mrs. Hughes referred to Violet as "the old bat," which seems way out of character for the Mrs. Hughes of the last few seasons.

 

And I loved Anna when she and Gwen were roommates. She was actually cheerful and made jokes. When she and a couple of the other downstairs staff members were sneaking peeks at Pamuk, Anna said he "doesn't look like any Englishman I've ever seen, worse luck." I know that Anna has been through all sorts of terrible things since then, but she had much more sparkle in those days.

[slf]

I'm rewatching season one and it's hilarious hearing Matthew snit about how he's not some upper class snob and can do perfectly well with "just" a cook and a maid.

Edited September 13, 2016 by slf

[PBSLover]

Isabel and Matthew were upper middle class.  It was perfectly normal, mandatory even, to have a couple of servants back then.  His comment was appropriate.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Isabel and Matthew were upper middle class.  It was perfectly normal, mandatory even, to have a couple of servants back then.  His comment was appropriate.  

I love the idea of making the employment of servants mandatory! 

[slf]

4 hours ago, PBSLover said:

Isabel and Matthew were upper middle class.  It was perfectly normal, mandatory even, to have a couple of servants back then.  His comment was appropriate.  

I understand it was a common practice for people of his class, I'm referring to how hilariously unaware he is that he's closer to Robert and Mary than he is to 'normal' people.

[PBSLover]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I love the idea of making the employment of servants mandatory! 

Class system at its finest.

6 hours ago, slf said:

I understand it was a common practice for people of his class, I'm referring to how hilariously unaware he is that he's closer to Robert and Mary than he is to 'normal' people.

Yeah, I guess at first he thought they were too grand and he didn’t want any part of it.

[txhorns79]

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Yeah, I guess at first he thought they were too grand and he didn’t want any part of it.

I was with him on not wanting to have a valet.  There is something absurd about an otherwise healthy adult needing a third party to dress them.  Though I did get why he eventually changed his mind.    

[slf]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was with him on not wanting to have a valet.  There is something absurd about an otherwise healthy adult needing a third party to dress them.  Though I did get why he eventually changed his mind.    

I always understood why, given the fashions of the time, women needed some help getting dressed (not that they needed servants for that, just help in general) but it always struck me as odd that the men did. 

That reminds me though of how much rage I feel every time he insults Moseley, which again highlights that Matthew isn't exactly as salt of the earth as he'd like to think. At that time valet was one of the best positions for a man of Moseley's means and Matthew, who's a member of the classes responsible for creating and protecting the very system that Moseley is just trying to survive, has the audacity to insult him. Like sorry Matthew but not everyone gets to be born to the upper middle class and become a lawyer before being handed a grand estate simply for being cousin to the right person.

Matthew has a lot to recommend him but he really puts his foot in his mouth in season one.

Edited September 14, 2016 by slf

[Hanahope]

52 minutes ago, slf said:

I always understood why, given the fashions of the time, women needed some help getting dressed (not that they needed servants for that, just help in general) but it always struck me as odd that the men did. 

I can understand the need to have somone personally responsible for the care of your clothes, shoes, hats, and help with putting on cuff links and maybe jackets.  But did they really need help putting on their pants?

I always liked the scene when Bates is helping the blackmailer put on his coat and he pick-pockets the letter.

[txhorns79]

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I can understand the need to have someone personally responsible for the care of your clothes, shoes, hats, and help with putting on cuff links and maybe jackets. But did they really need help putting on their pants?

I can see how a woman before the 1920s could need one.  There were so many buttons to be buttoned, a corset to be tightened, and about four thousand hair pins to be placed.  I did think it was weird to have a lady's maid with you while bathing, but I could see how she may be useful, even if it was awkward to be naked with the woman.