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S02.E06: Attila

juno

By juno
in Severance

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aghst

aghst

Milchick is a true believer, practicing clipping dozens or hundreds of papers together and then looking at himself in the mirror to not use big words.

He thinks Ms. Hwang threw him under the boss so now she’s on notice.

Mark confesses to Helly expecting her to want to have sex?  Seems like he might prefer the sex he had with Helena.

Meanwhile Gretchen kisses Dylan, lies to Outie Dylan about seeing Innie Dylan again.

Innies seem to be having more fun.  They’re never going to settle for waffle parties or pineapple bobbing again.

Outies or their significant others have suspicions though.  Fields think Burt and Irv may have had sex.  What do they imagine is going on inside Lumon?

Imaginations seem to be running wild.  Outie Dylan will probably find out about Gretchen and his Innie.

Then you have Helena pretending to run into Mark.  Yeah she’s ridiculously rich so she’s going to be hanging out at the same dive Chinese place Mark happens to go to?  He should be paranoid that he’s under surveillance which is probably why he wanted to have brain surgery right then and there.

That is crazy, what qualifications does that woman have that he’d let her cut into his brain?  He saw Petey die.  No matter how much he misses his wife, submitting to brain surgery — twice — seems unlikely.

When he had sex with Helena and Helly, his brain was flashing images of Gemma so he may be desperate to finish reintegration.

But it may also kill him or scramble his brain.

 

 

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arc

arc

Well, Mr Milchick certainly is dedicated to self-improvement. That session of him simplifying his vocabulary was distressing though.

Is outie Burt evil? Did he set up the dinner to give Drummond a window to break into Irving's house?

I am so tickled that Lumon even makes its own sphygmomanometers (blood pressure gauges). And baffled that Miss Huang has even what looks like fairly comprehensive first aid training.

I resisted it in s1, but I'm fully shipping Mark S and Helly. But Mark S may disappear if reintegration completes in the next few episodes and he is subsumed into outie Mark.

My powers of frame scrubbing saw a flash of Gemma with long hair and a lavender top -- very not Lumon looking. (Actually, it strikes me that Ms Casey's dark red outfit is also outside the Lumon dress code.)

4 hours ago, aghst said:

That is crazy, what qualifications does that woman have that he’d let her cut into his brain?

She said she did Mark's severance chip implant procedure. She certainly seems to be an expert on the whole process. We did learn that Jame Eagan pioneered the process. Maybe he invented it? Maybe Reghabi did and he stole credit?

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seank941

seank941

1 hour ago, arc said:

I resisted it in s1, but I'm fully shipping Mark S and Helly. But Mark S may disappear if reintegration completes in the next few episodes and he is subsumed into outie Mark.

They haven't done a very good job of explaining the reintegration procedure, but I think it will merge both Mark personalities together and create a "new" Mark; a Mark 3. 

At least I hope that's what happens, because I want to see him have to figure out how to act around Helly on the inside, and Helena on the outside.

I sort of love the fact that random people just live in Mark's basement. In season one Petey lived there, and now Reghabi is crashing on the sofa. If he had neighbors, I could just picture them wondering what the hell goes on at his house.

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catsitter

catsitter

4 hours ago, arc said:

I am so tickled that Lumon even makes its own sphygmomanometers (blood pressure gauges). And baffled that Miss Huang has even what looks like fairly comprehensive first aid training.

Except that she thinks you should tilt your head back if you have a nosebleed, instead of forwards.  A common mistake on tv though.

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overtherainbow

overtherainbow

I guess you can count me in with the people who are just not a fan of this season. Last season started off slow but there were big payouts at the end of every episode and each one felt super tight and well written and was in the right order. 

It seems like a lot of dragging things out for the sake of dragging things out, questions on top of questions, throwing in random, weird things, and there's not a lot of continuity. They're heaping on the lore this season instead of keeping it like Black Mirror in the first season, grounded somewhat in reality but with a heavy dose of psychological and technological mystique that really made you question the implications of the severance procedure. 

Am I crazy or does it feel like they're using a different writer for every episode? I'll have to read through the rest of these. It's felt downhill since Woe's Hollow. I used to be so excited about this show, and it sucks that it's turned into yet another one of those fantastic first season shows but the showrunners got too big for their britches and are now going to slow burn it into the ground kinda thing. I will still watch, but I'm not loving it. 4 more episodes though, so they could still impress me with a big payout. 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I am really starting to suspect that Outtie Burt is still working for Lumen and is spying on Outtie Irv, and not just because Christopher Walken has resting scary face. He could even be a big part of Lumen as an executive or something, another Helena situation that she didn't even know about. 

Mark/Helly/Helena are one of the weirdest love triangles ever, especially with Helena's creepy predatory dynamic with Mark. Sure Helena, your super wealthy Lumen self just happened upon Mark at a divey Chinese place, and you coincidently volunteered to pretend to be your Innie after watching her share a big kiss with Mark. 

"We were refining something" *wink* 

Finding out that Ms. Huang is there on "Fellowship" just makes me even more interested in my theory that she's some kind of Lumen born child of Mark and Gemma. Every time I think that Mr. Milchick might start questioning the company line he doubles down and gets even creepier. 

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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)

So much went on.
 

You know, I don’t think Milchick necessarily talked himself into being more of a company man. Yes, we learned his job has hidden and demeaning parts, as Cobel’s must have, and that the paperclip use (like the big words) was a passive aggressive way of protesting. He told himself not to be passive aggressive, but will he grow up and be obedient to the company line or will he stand up for himself? I, for one, expect some resistance from Mr Milchick. 
 

has Burt been severed more than once? Has Irving? Have they found love through multiple severings?  Who is the person with the frolic tattoo? (I guess that is how we will recognize him.)

As an aside, the black hallway seems to be what you see or where you go to be unsevered? Mark is asked if he sees it.

And consent —Fields is not wrong, he does have a stake in whether the two had unprotected sex. Also, was Helena able to see video of Mark and Helly having sex? Did that prompt their meeting? 
 

can a severed person have consensual sex at all? On either side. And Dylan’ wife, starting an affair and lying about it is creepy, too. Consent is not straightforward, life isn’t, but a lot if issues are raised. 
 

There was a flash of Helly when Helena joked about Mark coming to meet her father :-( Helena is awful, but also knd of sad  

and Mark, I assume will survive the procedure, but where does this leave him? Side effects of unsterile brain surgery aside, of course.

 

Edited by Affogato
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lavenderblue

lavenderblue

(edited)

I just watched Fringe for the first time last fall, so I squeed to see John Noble show up as Fields. What a fun bit of meta casting, given the themes of duality on both shows (the Mark/Helly/Helena plot is reminiscent of a storyline over there, too). 

That said, Burt, I suspect, is very much not fun! The theology made me wince a little initially -- in what traditional conception of Christianity, and especially Lutheranism, would Burt messing around in his past mean that he was barred from salvation? -- but on the other hand, if Burt defines "scoundrel" as "actively engaging in vile human experimentation for which I have no remorse," then Fields's concerns might have more of a foundation. I mean..."Attila"....

 

Edited by lavenderblue
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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

Who is the person with the frolic tattoo? (I guess that is how we will recognize him.)

Wasn't it the guy that did Milchick’s performance review? Granted, I don’t actually know who that is lol. Someone up thread called him Drummond. He’s like a Lumon exec or something.

Seems pretty clear Burt is still working for Lumon and invited Irving to the dinner so Lumon could see what Irving is up to. I saw that coming but I was hoping I was wrong.

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lovett1979

lovett1979

12 hours ago, aghst said:

Mark confesses to Helly expecting her to want to have sex?  Seems like he might prefer the sex he had with Helena.

I didn't get that impression at all, on either of those points. I think he told Helly because he knew she needed to know. He would have felt (and been) guilty if he kept that from her, and there was the threat that Millchick might tell her if he didn't first.

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am really starting to suspect that Outtie Burt is still working for Lumen and is spying on Outtie Irv, and not just because Christopher Walken has resting scary face. He could even be a big part of Lumen as an executive or something, another Helena situation that she didn't even know about.

There's certainly some unknown history with Burt going on. The mention of something happening with him at Lumen "20 years ago" when the severance procedure has only existed for 12 years. So either he worked there before getting severed, or severance has lasted longer than is generally known about.

Not to mention, Outie Burt setting up a date with Outie Irv with both of them having full knowledge of Burt's marital status is, well, something.

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

Who is the person with the frolic tattoo? (I guess that is how we will recognize him.)

I don't knew his name (not sure if it's been mentioned at all) but that's the guy who conducted Milchick's performance review, and told Helena she had to go be Helly and then allow Helly to exist again and was spying on Mark and his sister in the diner in the second episode. 

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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
33 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Wasn't it the guy that did Milchick’s performance review? Granted, I don’t actually know who that is lol. Someone up thread called him Drummond. He’s like a Lumon exec or something.

Seems pretty clear Burt is still working for Lumon and invited Irving to the dinner so Lumon could see what Irving is up to. I saw that coming but I was hoping I was wrong.

I still think it could be Fields whois working for Lumon, but you are right that the confusion over how many years Lumon has been severing sounds more like Burt’s coverup. 

think it is possible that Irving has been through multiple severings. I am positive that severing has been going on longer than is generally known, didn’t need Fields to spill the beans. 
 

I didn’t remember seeing the tattoo before.  Whoops  

 

Edited by Affogato
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catsitter

catsitter

(edited)
35 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

I don't knew his name (not sure if it's been mentioned at all) but that's the guy who conducted Milchick's performance review, and told Helena she had to go be Helly and then allow Helly to exist again and was spying on Mark and his sister in the diner in the second episode. 

His name has been mentioned - Drummond. He is played by an Icelandic American actor called Ólafur Darri Ólafsson who I have seen in a couple of other series - "Trapped" (set in Iceland) and "The Tourist" (set in Australia).

 

Edited by catsitter
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Pi237

Pi237

So, innie Mark has doubled down on adultery (granted, he was raped the first time, but he still slept with what he thought was Helly.) Going to make that Gemma reunion a bit awkward.  Although, it would’ve been anyway since in ie Mark shouldn’t have affectionate feelings for Gemma, who should be a stranger to him.  This show is a mind twister.

Milcheck was doing his own version of self-flagellation, didn’t see that coming. 

Theyre not getting much work done. It’s odd, with all the issues their department has had, that no one is watching them. 

I thought Fields would end up being someone we’ve seen before, but I didn’t recognize him. 

Affogato

Affogato

26 minutes ago, Pi237 said:

So, innie Mark has doubled down on adultery (granted, he was raped the first time, but he still slept with what he thought was Helly.) Going to make that Gemma reunion a bit awkward.  Although, it would’ve been anyway since in ie Mark shouldn’t have affectionate feelings for Gemma, who should be a stranger to him.  This show is a mind twister.

Milcheck was doing his own version of self-flagellation, didn’t see that coming. 

Theyre not getting much work done. It’s odd, with all the issues their department has had, that no one is watching them. 

I thought Fields would end up being someone we’ve seen before, but I didn’t recognize him. 

It is pretty clear that innie Mark is not married to Gemma, and never was married to her. Reintegrated Mark probably isn’t legally because she is dead to the world, but the moral waters are murkier. 
 

i wonder if we will find out that Gemma wasn’t a complete victim and was in some way involved with Lumon. 

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arc

arc

1 hour ago, Pi237 said:

Theyre not getting much work done. It’s odd, with all the issues their department has had, that no one is watching them. 

I was thinking the same thing. From earlier episodes we know the Cold Harbor file in particular is of supreme importance to the top brass at Lumon and they keep daily tabs on MDR's progress. But somehow this incredibly evil company doesn't do a quotidian evil thing many real world companies do: pervasive computer monitoring. (Keystroke logging, idleness monitoring via checking for meaningful mouse movements)

It's interesting to see the distinctions severed outies have about their innies. Earlier, when Reghabi asked Mark about how his outie could possibly reply to the retinal afterimage message, he said "that's his problem." Mark views innie Mark as a separate person, and obviously Helena views Helly as not even a person. But Dylan asked Gretchen how it went with himself, and this episode Gretchen said "I didn't even see him -- you." So Dylan views his innie as basically himself. (Innie Dylan doesn't think the same is true, though.)

I also wonder about the George's finances. Gretchen works a night job, which has gotta be tough, while Dylan seems like an indolent layabout, but he actually is drawing a full time salary; it's just that outie Dylan doesn't do the work. But it sounds like things are too tight to afford a new car.

Honestly it seems like the MDR three (so not counting Helena who's likely rich as hell) live solidly middle class lives, to judge by their homes. Burt and Fields are swank though; their house has three wall ovens. Combine that with the potential that Burt was with Lumon before severance was ever officially announced and he may be a secret Lumon bigwig or something.

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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
1 hour ago, arc said:

 

I also wonder about the George's finances. Gretchen works a night job, which has gotta be tough, while Dylan seems like an indolent layabout, but he actually is drawing a full time salary; it's just that outie Dylan doesn't do the work. But it sounds like things are too tight to afford a new car.

Honestly it seems like the MDR three (so not counting Helena who's likely rich as hell) live solidly middle class lives, to judge by their homes. Burt and Fields are swank though; their house has three wall ovens. Combine that with the potential that Burt was with Lumon before severance was ever officially announced and he may be a secret Lumon bigwig or something.

I wonder if the keyboard stuff is important? 

It is implied that outie Dylan has issues. The family may have debt from his bad ventures or investments or inability to hold jobs.  This would explain the tension about the car. Also there are 4 of them. But the implication is that Dylan isn’t a responsible person. 
 

I still would not discount Fields for anything. 

Edited by Affogato
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seank941

seank941

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

i wonder if we will find out that Gemma wasn’t a complete victim and was in some way involved with Lumon. 

When Mark was dating the doula in season 1 he told her that Gemma always had a plan B in life. I don't know what plan A was, but she doesn't sound like the victim type. 

 

2 hours ago, arc said:

Honestly it seems like the MDR three (so not counting Helena who's likely rich as hell) live solidly middle class lives, to judge by their homes. Burt and Fields are swank though; their house has three wall ovens. Combine that with the potential that Burt was with Lumon before severance was ever officially announced and he may be a secret Lumon bigwig or something.

We know Mark lives in Lumen housing so maybe the others do as well? I could see the company offering housing subsidies as a way to control them and monitor their outie activities. All we really know about their pay is that Mark got a pay increase earlier this season.

I do think Burt must have been pretty high up at Lumen, because O&D handled a lot of really sensitive documents. That's what caused Milcheck to first use the OTC on Dylan.

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seank941

seank941

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

It’s *Lumon.

Thanks. I wasn't paying attention while I typed.

I'm confused about the timeline on the show right now.  Helena made it seem like the OTC had only been a few days ago, but innie Mark is almost done with Cold Harbor, and as far as we know he started the project at the beginning of the new quarter.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Wasn't it the guy that did Milchick’s performance review? Granted, I don’t actually know who that is lol. Someone up thread called him Drummond. He’s like a Lumon exec or something.

I think he's the big burly guy who gave Milchick his performance review. The show seems to expect a lot from us. I shouldn't have to Google who the hell Drummond is or recognize him just from his eyes.

I thought the scene with Milchilck talking into the mirror was horribly pretentious. But then I'm inclined to dislike this character. I was rooting for Irv to beat the living crap out of him in Woe's Hollow. I just want to punch him every time I see him.

13 hours ago, overtherainbow said:

It seems like a lot of dragging things out for the sake of dragging things out, questions on top of questions, throwing in random, weird things, and there's not a lot of continuity. They're heaping on the lore this season instead of keeping it like Black Mirror in the first season, grounded somewhat in reality but with a heavy dose of psychological and technological mystique that really made you question the implications of the severance procedure. 

I feel your pain. It's increasingly feeling like another Lost. Great for fans who love picking it apart and coming up with all kinds of theories but now it just seems like they need it to keep going and keep those fans guessing and guessing and guessing. Fun! Only, not for me. I'm sticking with it for now but it's not going to hold me indefinitely. Fool me once and yours is the shame. Fool me twice and I'm to blame.

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Dev F

Dev F

8 hours ago, arc said:

I was thinking the same thing. From earlier episodes we know the Cold Harbor file in particular is of supreme importance to the top brass at Lumon and they keep daily tabs on MDR's progress. But somehow this incredibly evil company doesn't do a quotidian evil thing many real world companies do: pervasive computer monitoring. (Keystroke logging, idleness monitoring via checking for meaningful mouse movements)

Do they not? They certainly know that Mark is close to finishing Cold Harbor, and whatever work he does seems to immediately be reflected in some other computer readout connected to Miss Casey that presumably someone is monitoring, or why would it even exist?

The discussions among the Lumon higher-ups makes it pretty clear, I think, that they're serving MDR whatever carrots and sticks they think will result in Mark finishing his work, which is for some reason a Very Big Deal. Why wouldn't they let the gang fuck around a little bit if they expect it to bring about "one of the greatest moments in the history of this planet"?

15 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think he's the big burly guy who gave Milchick his performance review. The show seems to expect a lot from us. I shouldn't have to Google who the hell Drummond is or recognize him just from his eyes.

He's a giant with a big, bushy beard and a tattoo that says "Frolic" on his hand. To me that seems like plenty to identify him beyond just his eyes.

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maddie965

maddie965

(edited)

Maybe that's because I was very tired when I watched it, but that episode got me really confused. When Helena went to see Mark at the restaurant, I had to pause the image and think: what does outie Mark know about Helena? Just that she's the boss, I thought. And then she apologized to him about OTC and I was completely lost. What was she apologizing for? It couldn't possibly be about the sex because outie Mark didn't know about that. Or did he???

What also confuses me are the reintegration scenes. When that happens, it seems like Outie Mark just takes the place of Innie Mark, and not that he's both at the same time. Weird. But the worst part for me is that Outie Mark is doing the reintegration tests at night in his place, but when he emerges at Lumon, it's during the day, when Innie Mark is working. How is that possible? Or are those just memories for him? Like I said, confused.

And yes, makes no sense to me that the innies can just do whatever they want now, and no one cares. The show was very structured before and the rules were clear. I liked that. Now it seems all over the place, and that makes it lose its strength for me.

I still love it like crazy though. My sacred hour of television. Just wish they would advance more with the reintegration thing. As long as Mark is alive, that is.

Thanks to the poster who identified Drummond as the lovely cop from Trapped. I hadn't recognized him at all! Now I have to watch the whose season again, yay!

Edited to add: where the hell is Mrs. Cobel? I miss her.

Edited by maddie965
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iMonrey

iMonrey

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

What also confuses me are the reintegration scenes. When that happens, it seems like Outie Mark just takes the place of Innie Mark, and not that he's both at the same time.

When Mark left the restaurant after talking with Helena, it occurred to me how dangerous it could be if he started having those flashes while he was driving. He'd most likely crash the car.

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lovett1979

lovett1979

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think he's the big burly guy who gave Milchick his performance review. The show seems to expect a lot from us. I shouldn't have to Google who the hell Drummond is or recognize him just from his eyes.

We first see this character in the second episode of the season (I don't think he was in season 1, right?). He is in the background of the scene between Helena and Ms Cobel right after the OTC. Then we see him sitting at the counter of the diner where Mark and Devin are talking about the possibility that he meant Gemma is alive. Though first we see just a hand with the Frolic tattoo, then we see the whole person. We still don't know who he is but he is clearly a Lumon person and is spying on Mark. We've now seen him in more meetings with Helena and Milchick and have a better knowledge of his rank and importance. Seeing the tattoo should be enough for the viewer to know who it is entering Irv's apartment at this point.

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

what does outie Mark know about Helena? Just that she's the boss, I thought. And then she apologized to him about OTC and I was completely lost. What was she apologizing for?

When that scene starts, we don't even know what he knows. There's a scene in season one where he almost runs her over in the parking lot. It's unclear if he knew she was the boss or just some random person. So this restaurant scene confirms that she is known as the boss, and as an Egan. She is apologizing for the OTC because, while the Innies knew it was going to happen, obviously the Outies didn't. So for Outie Mark, he was at his sister's house 1 minute and the next was in a different spot holding the picture of his wife and breathless. It was a crazy enough experience to make him not ever want to go back, remember episode 2? I guess she's apologizing that something like that (breach of the OTC system) was able to happen in the first place. It's also a way to further the conversation and keep her STALKING VICTIM engaged.

(Sorry, I'm seeing a lot of people on twitter shipping this 2 and marveling at the chemistry and hotness of this scene and I'm shocked that nobody's appalled by the stalking and sexual harassment (she makes it clear she's his boss, you know) and obsession she's displaying here)

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

What also confuses me are the reintegration scenes. When that happens, it seems like Outie Mark just takes the place of Innie Mark, and not that he's both at the same time. Weird. But the worst part for me is that Outie Mark is doing the reintegration tests at night in his place, but when he emerges at Lumon, it's during the day, when Innie Mark is working. How is that possible? Or are those just memories for him? Like I said, confused.

I think it's memories. After all, the concept of severance, as explained in season 1, is about the Innie not having memories of the Outie's life and vice versa. So memories of similar things (opening the fridge, for example) bleed into each other. I think we (the audience) jump from his first aid session at Lumon right to his reintegration session at home. But during the reintegration, he is flashing back to his memories of earlier in the day. This time jump makes it as disorienting to us as to the character.

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diebartdie

diebartdie

22 hours ago, Pi237 said:

So, innie Mark has doubled down on adultery (granted, he was raped the first time, but he still slept with what he thought was Helly.)

Mark was raped? Mark was manipulated for sure but I didn't see it like that at all, I saw it as Helly being sexually assaulted by a very clueless Mark AND raped by Helena by her manipulation of Mark.

Helena is a pathetic ***.

Burt is just over the top sinister, I do not understand why Irving would still be hot for him, outtie Burt is a devil, Innie Burt was a charming, soulful, sexy beast.

According to the New Testament, there is only one unforgivable sin and that is to deny the Holy Spirit, perhaps that was Burt's Great Sin but I seriously doubt the show would go THAT esoteric.

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lavenderblue

lavenderblue

2 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

I think it's memories. After all, the concept of severance, as explained in season 1, is about the Innie not having memories of the Outie's life and vice versa. So memories of similar things (opening the fridge, for example) bleed into each other. I think we (the audience) jump from his first aid session at Lumon right to his reintegration session at home. But during the reintegration, he is flashing back to his memories of earlier in the day. This time jump makes it as disorienting to us as to the character.

This is what made the Chinese restaurant scene a bit curious to me, though I'm sure the show intended that. Outie Mark knows who Helena is, but did he also experience the exact same memory jump that we saw, with the first aid session bleeding into his reintegration session (the way his outie now has memories of seeing Gemma at Lumon, for example)? Or were we supposed to interpret that jump as something more like "Mark essentially blacked out and neither his innie nor outie can remember what happened between those events"? Or a third option, that he saw that Lumon memory from earlier in the day, but it was fuzzier than what we witnessed? Because we weren't given any suggestion that he recognized Helena as the woman who was with his innie at work, which should be quite a revelation.

@iMonrey I honestly expected him to start flashing after he got behind the wheel!

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Snewtsie

Snewtsie

The scenes with Gretchen & Dylan are precious. He's so smitten with her, & she feels safe to say things to him she can't say to outie-Dylan. At the same time doesn't yet fully comprehend outie & innie are essentially different people, as she admits she feels they are together all the time, and he corrects her to say his experiences are limited to her visits.

LOVE the kiss scenes with Gretchen-Dylan interwoven with the kiss scene of Helly-Mark! 

From Gretchen's first visit, when she referred to Milchick as "Seth", she's clearly someone on the inside, a high level Lumen employee (definitely higher than Milchick since she uses his first name, just like Helena did).  Will we learn she was instrumental in convincing outie-Dylan to undergo the severance procedure? Was she the technician who performed it? There's something meaty to be revealed here.

And ahhh- to see Helly quietly process the news that Mark had s*x with Helena... and her asking to be given her OWN memory with Mark... such delicate & beautiful acting by Britt Lower!

So much more to comment on, but I'll stick with this for now. A LOT happened in this episode!

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AstridM

AstridM

14 minutes ago, Snewtsie said:

From Gretchen's first visit, when she referred to Milchick as "Seth", she's clearly someone on the inside, a high level Lumen employee (definitely higher than Milchick since she uses his first name, just like Helena did).

Clearly? I don’t think so, at all. As an adult, I don’t call any other adults “Mr or Mrs” outside of extreme situations. I certainly wouldn’t call some corporate manager “Mr” 🤷‍♀️.

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lovett1979

lovett1979

5 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Mark was raped? Mark was manipulated for sure but I didn't see it like that at all, I saw it as Helly being sexually assaulted by a very clueless Mark AND raped by Helena by her manipulation of Mark.

From Wikipedia: Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived. Deception can occur in many forms, such as illusory perceptions, false statements, and false actions.

I would say that this is applicable to Helena/Mark because, while he did consent to sex, he consented to sex with Helly NOT with Helena.

4 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

From Gretchen's first visit, when she referred to Milchick as "Seth", she's clearly someone on the inside, a high level Lumen employee (definitely higher than Milchick since she uses his first name, just like Helena did).  Will we learn she was instrumental in convincing outie-Dylan to undergo the severance procedure? Was she the technician who performed it? There's something meaty to be revealed here.

I think you're reading too much into it. I think the "Seth" indicates that she can be on the same level (as a non-severed person) but Dylan (and the others) have to call him Mr Milchick because they are lower than him.

We also see a bit of her work uniform and hear enough about her going to work during the home scenes that we can conclude that she is a paramedic or dispatcher and she works the night shift. (there's an award on the shelf behind their dinner table in this episode that has en EMT logo and names her "dispatcher of the month.") (I got this from New Rockstars' breakdown of the episode)

  • Like 6
KarenX

KarenX

I mostly didn’t love this. We have so few episodes left and the scenes in this episode didn’t hold together. I don’t love seeing Milchick self-flagellate, and Helena’s behavior at the Chinese restaurant seemed irresponsible (for a CEO) and immature (for an adult).

I just don’t believe the Milchick we’ve seen to this point would self-recriminate like that. And I hate that they are making Dylan’s Outie such a loser. It feels like sabotage of these two characters. I straight up despise Gretchen for exploiting Dylan the Innie because she’s bored. She’s awful. The first meetup was endearing but now it’s icky. And excessive. Do Mark and Helly and Irving and Dylan all have to be manipulated sexually? It’s too much.

That said… The dinner party was some Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf realness. I was into every barb thrown at that table.

  • Like 3
SoMuchTV

SoMuchTV

(edited)
On 2/21/2025 at 10:42 AM, catsitter said:

Except that she thinks you should tilt your head back if you have a nosebleed, instead of forwards.  A common mistake on tv though.

Thank you! That and “hands at 10 and 2” seem to still be best practice in tv-land, even though my pushing-40 son learned differently decades ago in driver ed/first aid class. 

Edited by SoMuchTV
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On 2/21/2025 at 9:29 PM, iMonrey said:

I think he's the big burly guy who gave Milchick his performance review. The show seems to expect a lot from us. I shouldn't have to Google who the hell Drummond is or recognize him just from his eyes.

<shrug> pay attention, I guess? This episode was honestly a little too heavy on extreme closeups, but Drummond has been around all season. He was named by Helena when she ended her first conversation with Cobel in the second episode, and he's clearly an upper level Lumon guy who may outrank Helena, and is possibly her brother. They made a point of doing an extreme closeup on his "frolic" hand tattoo in that same episode, then going to a wider shot of him sitting at Pip's.

So a closeup on his same tattoo this time (as he went to pick the lock on Irving's chest of secrets) should have been enough. Also, he has a distinct and unusual build, seen as he walked up to the front door.

On 2/21/2025 at 7:53 AM, overtherainbow said:

It seems like a lot of dragging things out for the sake of dragging things out, questions on top of questions, throwing in random, weird things, and there's not a lot of continuity.

I disagree. Mark told Helly about sleeping with fake Helly this episode. A few episodes ago they introduced Dylan's wife and immediately showed she's really his wife. No wasted time speculating if it was a mind game with a hired actress. Mark jumped into reintegration really fast, all things considered. The show piles on new questions but it answers plenty as well so the new questions aren't overwhelming.

23 hours ago, Dev F said:

Do they not?

I just assumed given that Mark and Helly took a sex break that no one's keeping minute-to-minute tabs on them working or not working.

3 hours ago, KarenX said:

I don’t love seeing Milchick self-flagellate, […]

I just don’t believe the Milchick we’ve seen to this point would self-recriminate like that.

I don't think that was meant to be fun for the audience. It's meant to show how the drawbacks of this job keep piling up on Milchick. His employees hate him -- for good reason, sure -- and his bosses treat him with casual and wholly unearned disdain despite his loyalty. Everyone at Lumon from Kier Eagan onward uses ornate vocabulary; it feels especially demeaning that he was asked to stop.

Hell, it's been almost non-stop crisis ever since Petey reintegrated and went AWOL. They had to add Helly to MDR, Helly almost killed Helena, he had to track down the stolen O&D flash card, Dylan bit his arm enough to break skin, there was a full on OTC mutiny, he had to get three new MDR drones on short notice, then fire them and rehire Dylan and Irv, and then the ORTBO nearly got Helena killed again, and he had to fire Irv again. And for all this he gets a bunch of blackface Kier paintings and a very negative performance review.

He self-flagellated because he's cracking under the strain.

  • Like 1
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(edited)
13 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Excuse me? This isn’t the first time you’ve insulted other viewers this way

This isn't the first time people have complained because they somehow missed the only key information on screen at the time. I don't know what else to say. Drummond is the only character with a "Frolic" tattoo on his hand. They've shown it twice in extreme closeup*. Helena called him "Mr Drummond" in 2x02. He's been shown to be a very high level Lumon exec all season, in conferences with Helena and Natalie. These aren't tiny extraneous easter eggs for superfans, they're just clear pieces of storytelling. How are people missing these?

* in this episode, the show spends six seconds where the only thing on the screen is the lock and his hand, prominently showing the tattoo. It's not a blink-and-you-miss-it thing.

13 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Also, what evidence has there been that he is Helena’s brother???

Now, this was speculation on my part. It's based on the conversation they have after the ORTBO when Drummond and Natalie informed Helena that Helly, severance-turned-on and all, would be returning to the severed floor. Helena asked if Father approved, and Drummond said "Father encouraged it". So maybe Drummond views the CEO as a father figure, maybe he was just echoing Helena's wording, or maybe (and more likely IMO) he's also Jame Eagan's progeny and thus feels fully entitled to also call him "Father".

Edited by arc
  • Like 1
AstridM

AstridM

5 minutes ago, arc said:

This isn't the first time people have complained because they somehow missed the only key information on screen at the time. I don't know what else to say. Drummond is the only character with a "Frolic" tattoo on his hand. They've shown it twice in extreme closeup*. Helena called him "Mr Drummond" in 2x02. He's been shown to be a very high level Lumon exec all season, in conferences with Helena and Natalie. These aren't tiny extraneous easter eggs for superfans, they're just clear pieces of storytelling. How are people missing these?

* in this episode, the show spends six seconds where the only thing on the screen is the lock and his hand, prominently showing the tattoo. It's not a blink-and-you-miss-it thing.

Now, this was speculation on my part. It's based on the conversation they have after the ORTBO when Drummond and Natalie informed Helena that Helly, severance-turned-on and all, would be returning to the severed floor. Helena asked if Father approved, and Drummond said "Father encouraged it". So maybe Drummond views the CEO as a father figure, maybe he was just echoing Helena's wording, or maybe (and more likely IMO) he's also Jame Eagan's progeny and thus feels fully entitled to also call him "Father".

And why would Helena call her own brother “Mr Drummond?”

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2 minutes ago, AstridM said:

And why would Helena call her own brother “Mr Drummond?”

The sentence in full was "Thank you for coming in, Harmony. Mr Drummond will see you out." It's certainly possible that to maintain some distance from the lower ranks that Helena said that to Harmony because Harmony is not someone who would be calling Drummond by his first name.

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