S03.E02: Dislocation

[AnimeMania]

The Yellowjackets are stuck deciding whether to track down a missing teammate or just trip out on mushrooms; Shauna secures a spot on the world's most unsupportive partner list; Misty finds herself tangled in the intimate chaos of sleepover parties.

Premiere Date: February 14, 2025    Paramount+   
Premiere Date: February 16, 2025    Showtime   9pm

[BitterApple]

Interesting reveals this episode! Ben wasn't the fire starter. The cabin burned for weeks, which explains how the girls kept warm and didn't freeze while building new shelters. My guess is Bad Tai set the cabin ablaze. 

I felt bad for Jeff losing the hotel deal, but loved how Shauna put those two douchebags in their places. 

Does anyone think Travis repeating "they're coming" while high off shrooms was foreshadowing the rescue? Poor Akilah, though. She lets Travis hold Mortimer and then he sics Lottie on her?! Not cool, Travis. 

Is Coach Scott talking to an actual person in the cave or has he created his own Wilson? 

Pretty obvious where things are going in the crash timeline. Fucking Misty Quigley ratting Nat out is going to cause a leadership change, and things are going to get very dark and brutal under Shauna's rule. 

[Anela]

I don't understand why Misty would do that to Nat.

I'm too tired to say anything else. I watched both episodes this morning.

[Colorado David]

ok i need the recipe for the Lucky Daisy Bottoms Up tonic.  i also need that amazing breakfast served to me daily.

eta: just finished the episode. quite good, enjoying this. i like how everyone seems to have drunk the kool-aid in different ways - shauna is angry with everyone, it is her and her baby against the world; coach is communing with his cave, it'll be interesting to see if there's a real person there he's speaking to or not; van and the cult have entirely given over to the wilderness and trying to cooperate with it; lottie even moreso, desperately trying to hear IT again.

I just dont understand why Travis is willingly taking the mushrooms Lottie is supplying. He doesnt seem to enjoy his trips, and he could definitely overpower her if he needed to. I dont get the vibe he wants to connect to IT. 

is Akilah the person he is referring to as connecting to the animals??

Edited February 15 by Colorado David
add notes

[threebluestars]

I love how Misty is annoyed with Walter in the same way everyone else is annoyed with her and she's so oblivious to it.

[Black Knight]

3 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

I love how Misty is annoyed with Walter in the same way everyone else is annoyed with her and she's so oblivious to it.

Misty's rant was cracking me up for precisely that reason! I was like, girl, can you not even hear yourself?

I loved Misty and Lottie together. It's a hilarious dynamic when Misty isn't the looniest one, and I think it was a good change of pace for her character. I cracked up when Lottie was going on about "it" or whatever, and Misty commented, "So they just let you right out of the hospital," and then later when she was telling Callie they couldn't drink because Lottie was medicated, "hopefully". I had to rewatch both of those bits immediately.

So in the woods we're setting up for a three-way fight between Nat, Shauna and Tai for the leadership. I kind of feel like Natalie hangs on, or maybe she loses it temporarily and then gets it back, because I still remember Juliette Lewis's monologue in the series premiere about the things she had to do for the group, and so far we haven't seen anything in Nat's reign as leader that fits that.

I was pleased when it was revealed that Natalie is protecting Ben. I always liked their relationship. I'm not quite sure why it led to Misty turning on her, though. Is she mad that Natalie lied to her, or is she mad at Ben and wants the group to catch him? Hmmm.

I've always liked the theory that someone was left behind in the woods, and Mari is now a candidate for that along with Ben.

[Thalia]

8 hours ago, Colorado David said:

I just dont understand why Travis is willingly taking the mushrooms Lottie is supplying. He doesnt seem to enjoy his trips, and he could definitely overpower her if he needed to. I dont get the vibe he wants to connect to IT. 

is Akilah the person he is referring to as connecting to the animals??

I agree that Travis doesn't enjoy taking the mushrooms and I think he was lying to Lottie when he told her that IT doesn't like him or want him or whoever.   I hope Akilah enjoys being the focus of Lottie's energy.  

Poor Jeff.  He really would have been better off married to someone like Jackie.  She not only would have smiled in appreciation at the "experience" comment, she probably would have felt up Douchebag number 2 under the table.  

 

[Black Knight]

Shauna didn't behave well early at the dinner when she was quite obviously texting on her phone rather than participating in the conversation, but those dudes were never going to go with Jeff anyway. They were looking for a free fancy dinner with lots of groveling before awarding their contract elsewhere - either that or strong-arming Jeff into a ruinous deal where he would provide everything at cost or even less based on the proposition he'd get more business from other people as a result. He was in over his head. I actually thought it was kind of sweet of Shauna, in her warped way, when she exposed the one guy as a poser and then told them they didn't deserve her husband's furniture. And I'll say this: They then looked at her with a lot more respect than they looked at her husband all evening. Taking crap from people does not earn respect.

Jackie would have played along more initially, which might have kept the evening from devolving so much, but she wasn't one to take crap either and she actually probably would've said something sooner than Shauna, because unlike Shauna she expected to be treated as the golden girl. And Jeff wouldn't have gotten that deal either way. Buuuuut Jackie also would never have married Jeff and been in that position of being the wife of a doofus, so it's moot really. Jeff was right when he said he was the high school boyfriend. Jackie was a lot likelier to have married someone like the two guys on the other side of the table - smooth assholes with family money.

[Anela]

I agree that Jackie wouldn’t have married him, and she also didn’t take any crap.  

I liked Shauna pointing out that they weren’t self-made men. 

Edited February 15 by Anela

[Chaos Theory]

Well there we go Shauna.   The theory that Shauna treats Jeff so badly is because she is gay is at least being discussed.   Heck I get it.    There is like one guy left in the wilderness (not counting Coach Ben) and he is among the most fucked up so girl kissing will likely happen more frequently but then I can see Shauna killing Blonde girl who she kisses because Shauna kills those she loves.    
 

This is not a love story.

 

Also it looks like the other theory that two distinct groups might be forming.   Coach Ben might be bringing certain girls out of group think hysteria.  Which will likely end badly.  
 

I missed this show.

 

 

Edited February 16 by Chaos Theory

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Thalia said:

she probably would have felt up Douchebag number 2 under the table.

What a sickening thought. . . 😢

[jsm1125]

I assume it’s still ambiguous as to whether or not Ben actually set the fire? I couldn’t tell if he was lying to Mari about that. 

How did Lottie find Shauna’s address? And does this mean we won’t see Lisa this season at all? 

Jeff and Walter are adorable, even if I don’t know if I can fully trust the latter. 

[Brn2bwild]

Mari getting the hot chocolate brought to mind Jackie's S1 hallucination where she got hot chocolate from the group.  Could this be a sign of Mari's impending death?

[Chaos Theory]

Hot Chocolate or human flesh.

 

you decide.

[Jordan61]

Why doesn't Lottie have anywhere else to go? Even if they froze the accounts from the wellness center, isn't her family rich?

I was surprised Jeff & Shauna let Misty drive home, as drunk as she was. Walter may be sketchy, but he was right about that.

Did Lottie tell Callie everything after Misty fell asleep?

"Queen of Hearts" as a ringtone was ominous. The only people who know about that were those in the wilderness. Well and Jeff I guess, since he read Shauna's diaries.

Can Van and Tai be charged with anything due to the waiter's death? Certainly not felony murder, since dine and dashing isn't a felony. But is there a misdemeanor equivalent?

[BitterApple]

56 minutes ago, Jordan61 said:

Why doesn't Lottie have anywhere else to go? Even if they froze the accounts from the wellness center, isn't her family rich?

I was surprised Jeff & Shauna let Misty drive home, as drunk as she was. Walter may be sketchy, but he was right about that.

I think Lottie wants to get close to Callie and that was her excuse to crash at Shauna's. She definitely has money. She was wearing a Rolex in S2, and her clothes look pricey. 

Walter is definitely right about how the group treats Misty. Tai forgot to call her about Nat's memorial, ffs. Letting her drive home when she was barely conscious was highly irresponsible of Jeff and Shauna. 

[Black Knight]

Lottie probably thinks the wilderness wants Callie now.

[Black Knight]

Oh man, I was just commenting in the E1 thread about the graves, and remembered Crystal - if she's actually alive, she could be the one Ben's talking to! It may not necessarily be a Wilson situation.

[Anela]

22 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Oh man, I was just commenting in the E1 thread about the graves, and remembered Crystal - if she's actually alive, she could be the one Ben's talking to! It may not necessarily be a Wilson situation.

Do you think Javi found her?  I don’t know what to think.  I’m just going to see what they come up with.  

[sistermagpie]

On 2/15/2025 at 6:17 PM, Thalia said:

Poor Jeff.  He really would have been better off married to someone like Jackie.  She not only would have smiled in appreciation at the "experience" comment, she probably would have felt up Douchebag number 2 under the table.  

 

Nah, I think being married to Jackie would have made him feel like his whole life was dinner with those douchebags.

On 2/15/2025 at 7:21 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Also it looks like the other theory that two distinct groups might be forming.   Coach Ben might be bringing certain girls out of group think hysteria.  Which will likely end badly.  
 

I admit, I'd be annoyed at Ben having any kind of group. He retreated into his own issues about his own life early on. The girls have believably, imo, come up with ways to survive in the wilderness. He doesn't need to drink any Kool Aid because he's finding cheat boxes of hot chocolate for himself.

20 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

"Queen of Hearts" as a ringtone was ominous. The only people who know about that were those in the wilderness. Well and Jeff I guess, since he read Shauna's diaries.

Wonder if Hilary Swank is set up as what's her face Shauna was kissing in the wilderness, the one who has a personality now.

20 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

Can Van and Tai be charged with anything due to the waiter's death? Certainly not felony murder, since dine and dashing isn't a felony. But is there a misdemeanor equivalent?

I can't see how they could be blamed for his death at all. A healthy young man a totally unexpected heart attack. The fact that he happened to be running after these two middle aged women doesn't seem like it could really be their problem.

I did like the hot chocolate call back. Jackie seemed to be seeing a vision of Cabin Guy at her death, and he presumably buried the box of stuff. I hope there isn't somebody else living down there with Coach but I'm afraid it will turn out his wife or daughter or something is there, icking out male survivors to take care of.

I'm thinking Van got some surprisingly good news at Urgent Care that will be connected to the death of that waiter.

Poor Misty had her first sleepover and wound up the girl that got pranked and sent home early. I really don't get Shauna letting her drive home in that state. I'm hoping at least Misty did pull a "you're ot the boss of me" moment at least.

The person following Shauna story really does feel like another tedious retread of the blackmailing thing. It just doesn't seem like they ever know what they're doing in the present day timeline, although parts of it work for me. I don't feel like the past timeline is being dragged out as some said, though. 

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I'm thinking Van got some surprisingly good news at Urgent Care that will be connected to the death of that waiter.

I wonder if she would think Natalie’s death would have done it already. (I’m still suspicious that Van had curing herself as an agenda last season when the women all got together. She was always the most into the IT stuff after Lottie.)

Or maybe Van will decide it’s a scenario where people have to keep dying in order for her to live - in which case, yikes.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Black Knight said:

I wonder if she would think Natalie’s death would have done it already. (I’m still suspicious that Van had curing herself as an agenda last season when the women all got together. She was always the most into the IT stuff after Lottie.)

 

Yeah, that definitely seemed like a possibility to me too. Especially since Tai just showed up at her door--that would seem like a sign to Van.

[tennisgurl]

I don't think that Ben set the fire anymore, my thought is that it was Tai in one of her murderous fugue states. Van might actually know and is covering for her, and might not even be aware that Tai doesn't know what she did. I think that Nat is helping Ben survive, hence her tryin to keep Misty away from certain places and playing off any attachment she had to him. Too bad Misty is still salty that Ben is super not interested in her, regardless of him being gay and her being a teenager. I have to say, I think that these first two episodes have done a good job at mixing the tones between the growing Midsummer style horror of the flashbacks and the dark suburban comedy of the present, while letting the two timelines switch in tone sometimes. 

Misty isn't really wrong that the other girls don't really want to be around her unless they need something, and for someone who so pathologically needs people to like her that really sucks, but my sympathy will always be limited for Misty considering its all her fault that everyone who didn't die in the original crash is dead. I cannot WAIT for the drama bomb that will explode when that comes out. I also find it hilarious that Misty has her own Misty and she has zero amount of self awareness about it. 

Teenage Lottie is getting creepier, you can really see that cult start to grow, but adult Lottie was hilarious crashing on Shauna and Jeff's couch. The Goop Sorceress! 

I feel really bad for Travis, he's in such a bad place and is doubling down on Lottie, but now I have to worry about Akilah and her emotional support duck. 

Jackie only had to make it a few more months and she could have had that weird violent make out session with Shauna she obviously always wanted...

"You have such speak to a manager energy"

"No I don't" 

Shauna then demands to speak to a manager about forty minutes later. 

[Black Knight]

46 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Shauna then demands to speak to a manager about forty minutes later. 

After first checking to make sure the door was closed, and then speaking quietly, so Callie wouldn't hear her! 🤣

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The girls have believably, imo, come up with ways to survive in the wilderness.

Yeah. . . 😳
 

Team Ben!

Edited Monday at 11:09 PM by AstridM

[Black Knight]

Ben has had to deal with keeping Misty from poisoning him and with what happened to Javi. (It's technically correct that the girls didn't murder Javi, but they let him die, and Javi died in the process of saving the girl that they were trying to murder, so I don't feel like the technical truth really changes anything fundamental...) No, I do not blame him for not taking the supplies he found to the group of murderous cannibals that includes the psychopath unhealthily fixated on him. He'd still end up being next on the To Eat list, because he's chosen not to participate in the cannibalism and that makes him an outsider.

[AstridM]

34 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Yeah. . . 😳

 

1 minute ago, Black Knight said:

Ben has had to deal with keeping Misty from poisoning him and with what happened to Javi. (It's technically correct that the girls didn't murder Javi, but they let him die, and Javi died in the process of saving the girl that they were trying to murder, so I don't feel like the technical truth really changes anything fundamental...) No, I do not blame him for not taking the supplies he found to the group of murderous cannibals that includes the psychopath unhealthily fixated on him. He'd still end up being next on the To Eat list, because he's chosen not to participate in the cannibalism and that makes him an outsider.

THANK YOU!!!

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

Yeah. . . 😳
 

Team Ben!

 

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

Ben has had to deal with keeping Misty from poisoning him and with what happened to Javi. (It's technically correct that the girls didn't murder Javi, but they let him die, and Javi died in the process of saving the girl that they were trying to murder, so I don't feel like the technical truth really changes anything fundamental...) No, I do not blame him for not taking the supplies he found to the group of murderous cannibals that includes the psychopath unhealthily fixated on him. He'd still end up being next on the To Eat list, because he's chosen not to participate in the cannibalism and that makes him an outsider.

The point isn't that Ben should have brought supplies to the girls--obviously I get why he's just staying away from them now and considering them a danger to to him.

But in a meta sense, we've got a bunch of mostly girl protagonists who are being shown surviving in the wilderness with at least some practical and psychological logic, showing them learning to build shelters and raise animals etc. and thinking communally, with Shauna's personal grievances threatening everyone.

I'm not looking for a male authority figure representing a civilizing influence to show how the girls are morally inferior on their own. 

Losing his leg is enough trauma to cut him more slack than anybody else in the crash, and he had Misty on top of that, but it's not like he was established as caring about the girls even before they left. When he spent much of last season hiding in a fantasy world we saw he considered them monsters he resented having to deal with even before the crash, because he chose that job for self-protection over a scarier life that included connection to his boyfriend.

Obviously compared to a bunch of murdering cannibals he's better, but that doens't make him somebody I can root for all that much. I'm fine with him living in his big womb cave with his boxes of food and potential cave friend and Natalie's protection, but his being freaked out by the girls doesn't make him a moral symbol. Hiding is just his thing.

Edited Tuesday at 12:56 AM by sistermagpie

[WaltersHair]

I was sick this past weekend and binged the entire series. If I didn't love it before, I do now. They are constantly showing how each girl is possibly the worst human out in the wilderness and then replaces her with a new girl and with a worse reprehensible action.

The weird golden filter on the 1997 scenes makes me wonder how much of it is real. Toward the end of season 2, even Akilah hallucinated a living mouse out of a shriveled up corpsemouse.

I don't' know if this is a genuine callback, but Lauren Ambrose played a teenager named Claire in Six Feet Under that was whispered about at school. She brought a human foot and placed in her boyfriend's locker. He opened it between classes with everyone watching. Claire was suspended and made to see a counselor. Callie covering the high school girls with entrails reminded me of that.

The sounds from the sky reminded me of the noises the FBI aimed at the Branch Davidians. Doesn't make sense for this series, but that was my first thought.

In case speculation is frowned on:

Spoiler

I think the stalker might be Lisa from Lottie's compound. It would make sense that she'd want a little revenge, but I don't think Shauna would be the main target. Maybe Walter?

 

[Anela]

42 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I was sick this past weekend and binged the entire series. If I didn't love it before, I do now. They are constantly showing how each girl is possibly the worst human out in the wilderness and then replaces her with a new girl and with a worse reprehensible action.

The weird golden filter on the 1997 scenes makes me wonder how much of it is real. Toward the end of season 2, even Akilah hallucinated a living mouse out of a shriveled up corpsemouse.

I don't' know if this is a genuine callback, but Lauren Ambrose played a teenager named Claire in Six Feet Under that was whispered about at school. She brought a human foot and placed in her boyfriend's locker. He opened it between classes with everyone watching. Claire was suspended and made to see a counselor. Callie covering the high school girls with entrails reminded me of that.

The sounds from the sky reminded me of the noises the FBI aimed at the Branch Davidians. Doesn't make sense for this series, but that was my first thought.

In case speculation is frowned on:

  Reveal spoiler

I think the stalker might be Lisa from Lottie's compound. It would make sense that she'd want a little revenge, but I don't think Shauna would be the main target. Maybe Walter?

 

We have a speculation thread here: 

 

I started to write my own posts, a couple of nights ago, but I've been too tired to finish them. I was trying to list everything I remembered from each episode, to separate them in my mind, and then talk more about them. Maybe I'll finish them tomorrow. 

[Black Knight]

12 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Losing his leg is enough trauma to cut him more slack than anybody else in the crash, and he had Misty on top of that, but it's not like he was established as caring about the girls even before they left.

Something fundamental broke when Laura Lee decided to fly that plane. Ben tried to use his authority as an adult to shut that down, and all the teenagers ignored him, in that great group shot where they just stared in a chilling way at him. After Laura Lee got in the plane he then begged her not to go ahead with it. Obviously, she died, but having been right didn’t lead to his authority being re-established. But he cared about her, and he cared about Natalie. I can’t bag on him for recognizing before the crash that a number of the girls were kinda horrible even before they got stranded in the woods.

Edited Tuesday at 12:50 PM by Black Knight

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Something fundamental broke when Laura Lee decided to fly that plane. Ben tried to use his authority as an adult to shut that down, and all the teenagers ignored him, in that great group shot where they just stared in a chilling way at him. After Laura Lee got in the plane he then begged her not to go ahead with it. Obviously, she died, but having been right didn’t lead to his authority being re-established. But he cared about her, and he cared about Natalie. I can’t bag on him for recognizing before the crash that a number of the girls were kinda horrible even before they got stranded in the woods.

Having once been a teenage girl, I can vouch for how many of them are truly horrible and terrifying.

[Anela]

20 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Having once been a teenage girl, I can vouch for how many of them are truly horrible and terrifying.

I remember reading about a new Lord of the Flies, being created, only with girls, in 2018. Some people said that it would never work with girls, and I shared the post, saying, "did they not go to high school"? 

[AstridM]

17 minutes ago, Anela said:

I remember reading about a new Lord of the Flies, being created, only with girls, in 2018. Some people said that it would never work with girls, and I shared the post, saying, "did they not go to high school"? 

Middle school, for me 🥲.

[Brn2bwild]

13 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Middle school, for me 🥲.

Sixth grade for me. People (girls and boys) start being terrible at a very young age.

[Anela]

45 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Middle school, for me 🥲.

 

31 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Sixth grade for me. People (girls and boys) start being terrible at a very young age.

I dealt with it since around the age of six, but high school was the worst. We start at age eleven, in the UK. Or, they used to. I dropped out, and finished school at home, through the school system in California (mum remarried my American dad). 
It was girls and boys, for me too.  One of the teachers I saw once a week, asked if I was sure I didn’t want to be back in school. She thought I didn’t belong where I was.  I was sure.  

Edited Tuesday at 06:56 PM by Anela

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Sixth grade for me. People (girls and boys) start being terrible at a very young age.

Same.

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, Anela said:

I remember reading about a new Lord of the Flies, being created, only with girls, in 2018. Some people said that it would never work with girls, and I shared the post, saying, "did they not go to high school"? 

I believe I read somewhere that the creators of this show were inspired to create this show by reading comments under articles about the possible gender swapped Lord of the Flies saying that no way would girls act like that, which they thought was ridiculous to anyone who had spent time with teenage girls. 

As a former junior high girl, I can attest that we were at times about five seconds from creating our own cannibalistic murder cults, without ever even having to starve in the Canadian wilderness. 

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Something fundamental broke when Laura Lee decided to fly that plane. Ben tried to use his authority as an adult to shut that down, and all the teenagers ignored him, in that great group shot where they just stared in a chilling way at him. After Laura Lee got in the plane he then begged her not to go ahead with it. Obviously, she died, but having been right didn’t lead to his authority being re-established. But he cared about her, and he cared about Natalie. I can’t bag on him for recognizing before the crash that a number of the girls were kinda horrible even before they got stranded in the woods.

Sure, it's not like he ever wanted any of the girls to die or have bad things happen to them. When he called them monsters I don't think he was meaning anything other than them being teenaged girls. (Iirc, the whole idea is in the context of him choosing to stay in the job rather than live with his boyfriend.)

I think the show intetionally chose a story about an assistant coach who was sort of between the adult coach and the kids instead of a former respected or loved authority figure who falls from grace. Their interactions always seem to reflect that.

[Black Knight]

Agreed. It would have been a quite different dynamic had Coach Martinez lived.

The other thing with Ben, in addition to being young enough to be an older brother rather than a father (which makes him easier to disregard - what teen girl pays much attention to what her annoying older brother says about anything?), is that he's gay. He has zero sexual or romantic interest in any of these girls and so there isn't that heteronormative patriarchal vibe. He's never once gone to "I'm the man," just on occasion "I'm the adult" (and dropped that after Laura Lee's death). It's not so much that he's morally superior as it is that his brain is more fully developed as he's close to 25. We've talked about how many teenagers are horrible, but most of them don't stay horrible. They grow out of being so self-centered and they start making better, less impulsive decisions as their brains get more developed.

They could have made the young assistant coach character a woman, to remove any possible sense of a man moralizing to girls, but a woman might actually have had more influence with them because they would perceive her as being better able to relate to them. So the young assistant coach had to be a man.

And the one girl who absolutely would never have gone in for the murderous cannibalism died before it started - Laura Lee. I really wonder how things might have been different if she had lived. She didn't have a lot of power in the group, but she did have a huge influence on Lottie, who got worse/darker after Laura Lee died and started the cult and all the "wilderness" stuff. When the show killed Laura Lee off, I was surprised that they had killed a fairly major character, as opposed to one of the redshirts, before any cannibalism started, but looking back, I understand better. She had to go to help make the rest of it possible.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

And the one girl who absolutely would never have gone in for the murderous cannibalism died before it started - Laura Lee. I really wonder how things might have been different if she had lived. She didn't have a lot of power in the group, but she did have a huge influence on Lottie, who got worse/darker after Laura Lee died and started the cult and all the "wilderness" stuff. When the show killed Laura Lee off, I was surprised that they had killed a fairly major character, as opposed to one of the redshirts, before any cannibalism started, but looking back, I understand better. She had to go to help make the rest of it possible.

What's interesting though, too, is that Laura Lee mostly influenced everything by being religious, and her version of Christianity isn't that far removed from the Wilderness Cult:

In the flashback to camp, she thanks a lifeguard for pulling her out of a pool and he says that he didn't save her, God did. Thus taking a totally natural occurance (the lifeguard did save her) and sugesting it was supernatural.

She saw signs in things like birds landing nearby meaning God would protect her if she flew a plane. (She also insists on group prayers before games and scrimmages.)

Maybe most obviously, the Wilderness Cult believes that if they sacrifice and give It what it wants, It will reward them with what they need to survive. Laura Lee, in the second episode, reveals that she believs her God caused a plane crash because Laura Lee called her piano teacher a rude name--in her head. Like if she didn't stick precisely to the correct behavior, God would punish her.

It's hard to imagine Laura Lee taking part in any of the cannibalism or murder, but it would be a God vs. God situation--remember her smacking Lottie with her Bible back at the seance. So while things would have played differently if she was alive, the reality is that she died early, and before she did she introduced a lot of the spiritual ideas playing out in the Cult.

[AstridM]

15 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

What's interesting though, too, is that Laura Lee mostly influenced everything by being religious, and her version of Christianity isn't that far removed from the Wilderness Cult:

In the flashback to camp, she thanks a lifeguard for pulling her out of a pool and he says that he didn't save her, God did. Thus taking a totally natural occurance (the lifeguard did save her) and sugesting it was supernatural.

She saw signs in things like birds landing nearby meaning God would protect her if she flew a plane. (She also insists on group prayers before games and scrimmages.)

Maybe most obviously, the Wilderness Cult believes that if they sacrifice and give It what it wants, It will reward them with what they need to survive. Laura Lee, in the second episode, reveals that she believs her God caused a plane crash because Laura Lee called her piano teacher a rude name--in her head. Like if she didn't stick precisely to the correct behavior, God would punish her.

It's hard to imagine Laura Lee taking part in any of the cannibalism or murder, but it would be a God vs. God situation--remember her smacking Lottie with her Bible back at the seance. So while things would have played differently if she was alive, the reality is that she died early, and before she did she introduced a lot of the spiritual ideas playing out in the Cult.

You call it “spiritual,” I call it superstitious nonsense.

[Black Knight]

@sistermagpie, I agree Laura Lee introduced some spiritual concepts, to Lottie especially. But her brand of Christianity was largely tilted to the gentle, loving kind practiced by many. Yes, as you mentioned she thought that the plane crashed because she said a bad word, but she was immediately convinced otherwise by the other girls just laughing about it, making her realize how ridiculous the entire idea was. A hardcore fire-and-brimstone type would not have been dissuaded. Laura Lee generally had kind instincts.

If we consider Lottie loosely as a born-again, she's embodying born-again stereotypes in being more fanatical, particularly because there's no moderating influence she'll listen to. If Laura Lee had lived, the spiritual concepts she introduced might have been been interpreted more benignly by Lottie. I really liked in S2 when Adult Lottie saw Laura Lee; it showed how much Laura Lee still meant to her even after all these years.

[JenE4]

So the person stalking Shauna with the “Queen of Hearts” phone and the tape left on her doorstep is totally the blonde girl who kissed her at the end, right? 

I suppose we’re also supposed to handwave all of these other supplies they suddenly have for the robes and whatnot as questioned in the last episode. They had airplane seats and a suitcase at camp, so I guess we are to presume everything they have now came from the airplane.

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, AstridM said:

You call it “spiritual,” I call it superstitious nonsense.

And I think the show even suggests that more than another show might!

4 hours ago, Black Knight said:

@sistermagpie, I agree Laura Lee introduced some spiritual concepts, to Lottie especially. But her brand of Christianity was largely tilted to the gentle, loving kind practiced by many. Yes, as you mentioned she thought that the plane crashed because she said a bad word, but she was immediately convinced otherwise by the other girls just laughing about it, making her realize how ridiculous the entire idea was. A hardcore fire-and-brimstone type would not have been dissuaded. Laura Lee generally had kind instincts.

Oh, I agree. But that's why I'm not saying that Laura Lee or her religion was actually bad--it's almost the opposite, imo, that the show isn't interested in morality as a theme. They're more interested in people's other motivations, and Laura Lee is usually connected to magical thinking than anything else--it seems like she hasn't throught through everything morally a lot (as evidenced by her fears about the plane crash). So it's better than she's not portrayed as a villain or someone with a hurtful or hateful religion. Her interpretation of signs to mean that she could fly the plane safely wasn't mean or kind, it was just the way she interpreted God as saying to her--and it was also pretty fanatical, even if it wasn't dark or violent.

Basically, I'm just saying that Laura Lee did seem like a kind person, and that was part of who she was, but the show was more interested in how she interacted with her religion than the fact that she was nice, because the show is more interested in other impulses.

 

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

I suppose we’re also supposed to handwave all of these other supplies they suddenly have for the robes and whatnot as questioned in the last episode. They had airplane seats and a suitcase at camp, so I guess we are to presume everything they have now came from the airplane.

I'm going to give them a chance to explain where that stuff comes from, just because I'm hoping the costume department through it through at least in some way, like they did with the opening scene of the series. Before S2 a lot of people complained about them all having winter clothing in pictures and they weren't. Seems like they must have had some fun coming up with what they're wearing.

Edited Thursday at 02:54 AM by sistermagpie

[Black Knight]

15 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Basically, I'm just saying that Laura Lee did seem like a kind person, and that was part of who she was, but the show was more interested in how she interacted with her religion than the fact that she was nice, because the show is more interested in other impulses.

I think the show is tracking how things can devolve, particularly within a group. Laura Lee was certainly a true believer in her religion, and I do think her being kind was important to the writers, because that kindness is why her death is an important inflection point in the story the show is telling of how this group turned into a cult of murderous cannibals. She lacked the charisma herself to evangelize others, except for Lottie. Lottie is a far more charismatic figure, and without Laura Lee around to keep Lottie from taking the spiritual concepts she'd learned from Laura Lee in a darker and more vengeful direction, this new "religion" spread out to more people in the group.

In a way it puts me in mind of Jesus and Paul. Paul, a convert, took Christianity in a more severe direction. Jesus, of course, was dead and thus not around to influence Paul.

To try to get this connected back to the episode at hand somewhat, Tai is an interesting person to consider in this regard, especially now that she's thinking of making a power play for leadership. Tai, when she's herself instead of Bad Tai, is over on the skeptical side of the group. But first, she loves Van, who is a true believer, and second, she's already a budding politician who can read the room. This was Jackie's failure. Jackie clung the hardest to the old pre-woods reality, and while that made her a lousy survivalist, it did make her one of the few sane ones as far as the darker things that were beginning to develop went. I still remember her trying to snap everyone back to reality after the Maenads madness thing, but she utterly failed to read the room and didn't understand that they didn't want to hear it, so that went badly and then she died a few hours later.

Natalie has been a good leader for spring/summer. Is she a winter leader? I'm not certain. The group might do better then with Tai in charge. If Shauna takes over, then as another poster commented things are going to get very dark under her rule. I still wonder what Misty's really up to - does she like creating chaos, is she trying to effect a leadership change, or does she just want Ben dead?

[Anela]

There are people who think they’re hallucinating the warm weather, but how would that explain Ben being in Spring weather, too? 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

 I still remember her trying to snap everyone back to reality after the Maenads madness thing, but she utterly failed to read the room and didn't understand that they didn't want to hear it, so that went badly and then she died a few hours later.

 

I think what's interesting about those characters' fate to me is that you can't help but speculate how things would have been different if they hadn't died, because they were both defined in different ways by being against the society that eventually appeared. But the reason they're not there is that they both wound up killing themselves for reasons because of those things instead!

It does make it interesting how Laura Lee wasn't included in the Summer Solstice ceremony. The bodies being there does seem like a good reason for it, but Laura Lee's death was such a tramatic moment, especially for Lottie, it still seems like an interesting choice!